They took interesting paths to get there, but Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka have set up an intriguing final matchup at the U.S. Open. In six previous Grand Slam showdowns heading into Sunday, Djokovic and Wawrinka have played four five-setters.
Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka will be squaring off for the 24th time in their careers when they battle for the U.S. Open title on Sunday afternoon.
Although Djokovic is dominating the head-to-head series 19-4, this has to be considered one of the most entertaining matchups in tennis over the past four years. Dating back to the 2013 Australian Open, they have faced each other five times in Grand Slams and four have required fifth sets. The two veterans split a pair of thrillers at the 2013 and 2014 Australian Opens, Djokovic prevailed 6-4 in the fifth in the 2013 U.S. Open semis, and he cruised 6-0 in the fifth last year Down Under before Wawrinka won the 2015 French Open via a 4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 decision in the final.
Speaking of finals, the third-ranked Swiss is an unbelievable 10-0 in his last 10 matches with a title at stake.
“He’s a big-match player,” Djokovic said of Wawrinka. “He loves to play [on] the big stage against big players, because that’s when he elevates his level of performance; just gets much better. I think he was very close to [losing in the third round] in this tournament and he was struggling with his form, but the last couple of matches he’s (been) getting in that shape that is winning him big matches. I lost to him in (the) finals of French Open and I lost to him in (the) quarterfinals of Australia when he won, as well.”
Wawrinka’s appearance in this final did not seem likely when he lost five of his last 10 matches prior to arriving in New York. Moreover, as Djokovic indicated, the No. 3 seed needed to save a match point against Daniel Evans in the last 32 before surviving 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(6), 7-6(8), 6-2. He has also defeated Fernando Verdasco, Alessandro Giannessi, Illya Marchenko, Juan Martin Del Potro, and Kei Nishikori.
Although Wawrinka avoided five-setters in the rest of his matches, no one has enjoyed an easier time in Flushing Meadows than Djokovic. The Serb has benefited from a walkover (from Jiri Vesely) and two retirements (by Mikhail Youzhny and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga) in addition to mostly routine victories over Jerzy Janowicz, Kyle Edmund, and Gael Monfils. As such, the jury is still out on Djokovic’s form in the wake of a Wimbledon setback against Sam Querrey and a Rio Olympics loss to Del Potro. The world No. 1 was also nowhere near his best against Monfils on Friday, but the Frenchman turned in a somewhat bizarre performance to cost himself a chance for an upset.
Still, Wawrinka is well aware of what Djokovic is capable of bringing to the table.
“To play Novak it’s always really challenging,” he assured. “We [have] some many big memories together, especially in Grand Slams, so it’s going to be an exctiting match. The secret is simple: I have to play my best tennis; my best game. I have enough confidence in myself that when I play my best level I can beat him. Hopefully I can bring that Sunday. But it’s the biggest challenge; when you play Novak, the No. 1 player in the final of Grand Slam, it’s the biggest challenge you can have.”
It is also true that Djokovic is vulnerable right now, but at the same time his fortuitous trek through the draw is just what the doctor ordered for a player who had been struggling just a bit physically prior to the tournament. Even though the 12-time major champion showed additional signs of physical issues against Monfils, he is more rested than Wawrinka and should be able to put forth his best showing of the fortnight when it matters most.
Pick: Djokovic in 5
[polldaddy poll=9519215]
Given that Nole considered not playing being a finalist is a very fortuitous result. Also very happy to see big jump by Delpo to 64. Great for him.
Wow! Delpo goes up to 64 in the rankings! That is great news for him.
Djoko may have carried some injuries picked up along the way through the long season; he’s not that young anymore and he’s human like the others (he’s not a robot).
Djoko has a complete game that even though certain part or parts of it is/are not working, he still could find his way to a win most of the times. He’s not no.1 for nothing, he’s just that good.
These players, when in the zone, are/were simply unplayable – Fed during his heydays on quick surfaces; Rafa on clay; Djoko at the AO; Stan in slam winning mode ie AO2014, FO2015; Cilic at USO2014 SF/F are some examples. Its difficult to compare who plays at a higher level when in the zone, as it depends on the surface one excel on.
stan at ao 2014!! rafa was injured…
Nah, I was talking about Stan at AO2014 throughout the tournament, not just the final. I watched most of his matches that AO and was mighty impressed, esp vs Djoko and Berdych.
ok fair enough. seem to remember that nole was up a break in the fifth set of that match and again gave up his serve without much pressure. quite odd really. i think part of the problem he has against stan is that he simply doesn’t get as fired up against him as he does against fed and rafa. we know how nole is obsessed with playing for history and playing against the greats seems to just get him way more motivated.
fed has got to be feeling very fed up (no pun intended) that he’s injured this year. if he continued his form of last year he could have been looking at winning both wimby and the us and would now be at #19. stone the crows!
Actually Rafa should be fed up too about his own injury. Seriously, Djoko wasnt very impressive too at the FO and Rafa would have his chances for another FO trophy if not for his wrist.
I like Magnus Norman, he is a really cool guy and has done wonderful things for Stan, helping him to become the slam champion that he is now. A good coach is truly important in helping his charge fulfil his potential.
I agree about Magnus Norman. He took a player who had been a journeyman living in the shadow of Fed and helped him believe that he could beat the top players. Late in his career, Stan made some moves to try to change his career. I also noticed that he lost some weight and got more toned and fit.
Stan had the game to hang with the top players but not the mentality. Norman helped him get to that next level and it’s paid off.
Congrats to Rudolph for his win over Djovak Nokovic.
http://baseline.tennis.com/article/61025/meet-djovak-nokovic
Amy my post wasnt directed towards you it was merely a generalisation, so apologies if you took it that way, maybe the language was a bit choice too ….
^Amy to add you were very welcoming towards me when i started posting here, so i regret the way i came across, RC knows me from years ago, and although i wouldnt ask her to take sides she knows ive always done my best to be fair, oh dear 🙁
that’s ok alison. i’m sorry if i was a bit hasty myself. i was really tired yesterday after working all weekend so prone to mis-understand things. let’s just forget about it please? it’s not important. talk to you anon!
To our aggressive ‘FedFan’, I have replied to your aggressive comment @ 11.06 am. Please do have a look.
To add to my post to Fed Fan in response to his 11.06 am post:
I am not surprised that Djokovic has demolished Stan in their indoor meetings. The faster, lower bounce conditions will surely benefit Djokovic and take that problem away which I mentioned in my post. Djokovic won’t have to generate his own pace that much and he can rush Stan into errors.
Djokovic’s stragegy is to take time away from Stan and rush him. I do think that if Djokovic did not have problems with his serve, he would have most probably own yesterday. He wouldn’t have let Stan get into that groove. On a clay court , Stan has a lot of time and again that issue comes into play.
I hope you do realise, that taking time away from a player is the essence of being aggressive. So I don’t know what mythical firepower you’re referring to. Playing indoors has nothing to do with the ability or lack thereof to generate one’s own pace. What a ludicrous thing to say. I doubt you ever watched Sampras on carpet.
hahahahahaha!
MYTHICAL firewpoer?? Nadal’s forehand has mythical firepower? Del Potro’s forehand has mythical firepower?? No Fedfan will us what firepower is because all of a sudden is a very complicated concept!! wow…
If you bother reading other posts, I have explained to nadline above that Djokovic is an AGGRESSIVE player because of his ability to take time away from his opponent! It was you who called him a defensive baseliner anyway!!
Playing indoors has nothing to do with generating pace ??? What is this guy talking about! It becomes easier to take time away from opponents and THAT ASPECT would obviously help Djokovic against wawrinka! What has Sampras anything to do with it??
1. Djokovic plays more aggressively than Nadal. That doesn’t make him an aggressive player. His style of tennis has nothing do with the weight of his shot and everything to do with the wider canvas of his strategy.
2. Who has problems understanding English now? Did I say Nadal lacked firepower or was my original premise based on the notion that your comparison for “peak-to-peak” superiority based one some enchanted notion of “firepower” is wrong? Learn to read and then come back.
3. Yes, Del Po hits his FH extremely hard and flat. I don’t what that has to do with your premise that Nadal or someone else has a superior “peak” to Novak based on a notion that you cannot adequately justify.
4. The rest of diatribe is too stupid and incoherent to address.
LOL, also when did pace and spin become determinants of who gets the better “peak?” I’m going to repeat myself here: Djokovic doesn’t have an inferior peak-level (an indeterminate notion) to either Stan or the centre of your lame comparison: Nadal. It is impossible to ever, objectively quantify a peak, let alone do so on an arbitrary metric. He’s as good a BO5 player as any of these and he doesn’t have generate a ridiculous amount of RPM to somehow justify himself.
Anyone who has to make their points with rudeness and disrespect, really has nothing to say. Because there is no reason to insult prople here in any discussion.
I do not put any stock in a response or argument that includes demeaning language directed at others. No one here is God or should assume that they know more than anyone else.
fedfan is unemployed (by his own definition).
What goes around comes around.
I guess he just can’t stand living in a world without dear Roger.
Djokovic confirmed that he did damage to his body because he was protecting an injury. This does happen so no wonder his body was breaking down and he is 30 now. It is time we realize even he is human and can get injuries that limit him.
Did you all read about Stans cheeky dig at Roger in post match presser ?
When reporter asked him if he spoke to Fed before final match for tips..he cheekily said tips to lose ? 🙂
Next year is the final year there is any chance for Rafa to win a major. If he does not , he never will anymore
Djokovic is off his beastly mode now and rafa can capitalize provided he does not self destruct.
True. Nadal needs one last French. He’s gotta be ready for that one.
I would think he can go on for 2 more years. So next year and the year after.
No, you obviously do not watch tennis. Djokovic’s BH DTL more than compensates for anything the other guys have on their FH. THAT’s his weapon along with a much better serve than Nadal’s. Both Novak and Nadal are rhythm players. Stop beating around the bush calling Novak a rhythm player a dozen times as if that somehow proves a point.Like Federer, most of Nadal’s matches against Novak have come on clay. Novak’s problem on clay, like Federer is that he doesn’t move nearly as well as Nadal does on the surface. It’s even harder to do so on Chatrier which has massive space behind the baseline and Nadal can stand even further away on returns.
Djokovic did not play well during USO 2013 and he did not play well this year. That doesn’t mean peak-for-peak he’s somehow inferior to the overblown “RAFA” or even Federer. It all depends on the surface they’re playing on. So yeah. You’re being ridiculous. Bye.
I think you have problems understanding english. Try searching the work firepower and it will help you and your ridiculouness.
I wronte it myself that one of Djokovic’s strength is his ability to change direction and he does that better than anybody else. BUT, he does not have extraordinary firepower in that shot either!! What tennis do you watch seriously! It is the best two-handed backhadn DTL but no can’t be compared to Nadal’s forehand DTL that is TWICE as big.
DO you even understand that these posts were started to put into perspective why Stan gets into rhythm against Djokovic more often?! Yes, it is precisely because of that. Ok yeah Djokovic wasn’t playing great in 2014 AO and 2015 FO either then???
Where have I said Nadal is not a rhythm player? quote me here please.
You need to watch Djokovic-Stan matches again.
ALl you know is to use the word ridiclous… simply ignored the explanations because you can’t understand them perhaps…not your fault I guess..
And I don’t understand your obsession with bringing that comparison of peaks! And calling Nadal and DJokovic ‘defensive baseliners’ tells us how much you know about tennis.
I doubt you understand, that a BH DTL is a much harder shot to master for a double hander than a FH DTL. You would, if you ever played the game. You don’t and I’m not going waste any more time engaging with your pointless mythical notions of “firepower” (when you actually have no way of making that determination) and the resultant diatribe.
vr,
Anyone who actually watched the 2013 RG knows that Novak played well on that match. Rafa was serving for the match in the fourth set, but Novak broke him and then win in a TB. He forced a fifth set. I think that fifth set featured some of the best tennis from both guys. Novak was up a break when Rafa was able to reach a whole other level and produce some unbelievable tennis to break back. He ultimately outplayed Novak. But there is no way that any reasonable person could say he did not play well. Rafa just played even better to get the win,
Nadal’s failure to close out that match doesn’t imply Djokovic was on great form. Please. What a ludicrous conclusion to draw. Nadal has had these problems for at least four years now and should’ve won that match in four sets.
Nah, Djoko vs Rafa matches not mostly on clay – clay 21, grass 3, HCs 25. Neither were Fed vs Rafa – clay 15, grass 3, HCs 16.
Rafa > Djoko on clay; Djoko > Rafa on HCs.
Djokovic played a great US 2013 finals. Rafa just played better when it mattered and won. Remember the 3 break-points he saved late in the 3rd set?
LOL, no he didn’t. 2013 was an abysmal year for him after the kind of success he’d had earlier.
Wrong!
For fedfan.
http://www.jobsite.co.uk/
fedfan’s definition of abysmal:
Three slam finals with one slam title, three Masters and a WTF title, his second best year on tour to that point.
I’d stay away from the literary job section fedfan. Not your forte.
Well, there’s always fiction for you for sure. Just get a good editor.
1. I don’t work or live in the UK. 😉
2. Novak pretty much didn’t do anything of note for huge chunks of that season. He was well below par in the W finals and he was well below par in the USO final. He did well at the AO which is a traditional stronghold and then had a lull till MC followed by another lull till the RG finals. So yes, it was an abysmal year by his standards and in accordance with the expectations he had at the start of the season.
His form started to improve a few months into his partnership with Becker.
1. Yes, based on your past accusations, it’s quite obvious you don’t work in the UK (or anywhere else).
No, it was the second best year of his career to that point.
Said Djokovic at the end of 2013:
“Well, next to the run that I had in 2011, this is definitely the second best I’ve had.”
“Overall, it was again very successful Grand Slam year for me.”
You must have quite the life that you consider his second best year in his career to that point as abysmal. By his standards? Obviously not.
He’s below par at USO 2013 final? Did you see his USO2012 final?
He was below par at Wimbledon final? That was because he fought hard vs Delpo in the SF to reach the final. Compared to his 2012 Wimbledon, well, he lost meekly to Fed in the SF.
He didnt do as well at the Masters but still managed to win 3 masters in 2013, same as in 2012. He didnt win any Masters on clay in 2012 but won MC in 2013.
1. You have an unhealthy obsession with my life. Are you a pathological stalker? Looks like it. Time to get a shrink.
2.What Djokovic says or doesn’t say in a press-conference is no reference to what many thought of his level at the time. In any case, it’s a strawman at best.
In fact Djoko was quite unfortunate to have to face Rafa in the SF at the FO because of Rafa’s drop in ranking in 2013, hence he lost some ranking points there, from Finalist points to SF points.
I don’t think either the 2012 or 2013 were great years for Novak. His loss to Fed-I don’t really care. As long as Fed was playing well, which he was, he was always a favourite to win that match. Djokovic doesn’t move well enough on grass to handle a Roger who was pretty much throwing in every shot in his arsenal in the final two matches. The semis were also under the roof and the surface took Roger’s slice very well. That’s all that Roger needed, along with his stellar net play.
2. The loss was neither meek nor any worse than his USO Final performance of 2013 especially given that he is a much better HC player than a GC player.
1. What are you wearing fedfan?
2. Calling Nole’s 2013 abysmal is a strawman at its finest. You really are quite an abysmal hypocrite fedfan. Hilarious.
Yeah, how could 2012 be a great year for Novak finishing No. 1 and all.
What a git.
Losing to a bad back Fed at Wimbledon wasnt losing meekly? Losing to an inspired Rafa at a USO final rated as about the same as losing to bad back Fed on grass?
Just like Djoko was capable of beating Fed at Wimbledon (2-1 vs Fed), Rafa was capable of beating Djoko at the USO (2-1 vs Djoko). Please dont tell me when Fed lost to Djoko at Wimbledon, its because Fed played subpar tennis.
Fedfan, Murray was winning Olympics and USO in 2012, reached final at AO in 2013, won Miami and then won Wimbledon in 2013, had he had any better results than that in his career so far? Yes, he was peaking under the tutorlege of Lendl. The back issue was unfortunate. He had his back surgery after the USO, not during the FO. So who had the cock and bull story now??
Fed didnt have bad back at Wimbledon 2012? Please go and check that up. Djoko played better at Wimbledon 2014 than 2012, exactly! Hence my comment that he lost meekly to bad back Fed in 2012!
Yeah, Fed was playing well in 2012, got to no.1 for 16 weeks before ending the year as no.2 and Djoko was still YE no.1, winning 1 slam, reached another 2 slam finals, a SF; won 3 Masters and the WTF. Murray and Rafa won a slam each, so how was the field not smoking hot in 2012? The trio went on to sweep all slams and Masters in 2013, Ferrer reached his first and only slam final, and Tsonga reached his first SF at FO, so the field was hot, if not smoking hot.
Well, at least hotter than 2014 when Rafa was absent for half a year, Murray was just back from back surgery and not winning much. Stan was the saving grace. In 2015, the competition was even worse that old man Fed at 34 made 2 slam finals and Rafa was not his usual self and Murray wasnt winning much, again the saving grace was Stan.
Luckystar, those are are all quite valid points and OF COURSE they make sense.
Murray was kind of absent from the top level in 2014 and 2015 as he couldn’t find that level he had in that 2012-13 stretch. He has started to find it again now.
The field was pretty hot in 2012 and that’s kind of a fact.
Fedfan won’t realize how matchups and presence of your rivals playing their best impacts the level a player can achieve. It was all roses in 2015 and nobody was quite there to put incessant pressure on Djokovic in 2015. Murray was still finding his level, Rafa was almost non-existant and Fed played really well but lacked that edge due to his age. Djokovic played at a phenomenal level but you can’ ignore the field factor.
Fedfan doesn’t know much about reality other than the federer posters in his bedroom over his bed.
Playing inspired tennis means playing exceptionally well. They do not need inspiration everyday for them to play good tennis as they are just that good being the top guys but they do need that special something (we call inspiration) to play exceptional tennis.
Djoko is the better HC player than Rafa, but that doesnt mean Rafa cant beat him on the HCs. Check their H2H at the HC slams and see for yourself. They are 2-2, dont tell me each time Djoko lost he was playing subpar tennis! Even in 2011 when Djoko was playing ‘inspired’ tennis, he had to fight so hard to defeat Rafa at the USO and Djoko then suffered a back injury and had to skip the Asian swing that year. Rafa has to play inspired tennis to beat Djoko at the HC slams precisely because Djoko is the better HC player.
Yeah, I dont think Djoko’s 2013 was abysmal, compared to his 2012. He lost at FO and USO to Rafa simply because Rafa played inspired tennis.
In fact, Djoko played worse tennis at USO2012 final(compared to his 2013). Djoko was also playing better at FO2013 compared to FO2012 when both Seppi and Tsonga pushed him to the limit in their matches.
Fedfan, what were you talking about? 2012 and 2013 werent great years for Djoko? Of course cant compare to his 2011, but amidst tougher competition than what he had these past two years, he was doing very well.
I mean back then his two main rivals, Fed and Rafa were still playing great tennis (not so much for Fed in 2013) and Murray was also peaking. He still managed to retain his YE no.1 in 2012 and narrowly lost to Rafa in 2013 when Rafa played inspired tennis the whole season.
His 2014 to me was his worst season in the past five to six years, still managed a slam and 4 Masters and YE no.1.
He was losing meekly to Fed at W2012; that was his worst performance in the past six years at Wimbledon except this year.
That’s the point lucky.
fedfanatic’s tinfoil view is that a field without the likes of Roddick, Hewitt, Blake and aging Agassi and Henman is not very ‘smoking hot’.
Murray was peaking in 2013? In what universe was he peaking? The Dull fanboy revisionist history world? Murray was still recovering from a back surgery and skipped RG in order to compete at Wimbledon where he did play well. And that was it. He’s gone on record to say how much pain he’d been in before then when asked about Fed’s decision to skip RG this year.
I’d say Novak played a LOT better in 2014 than he did in 2013.
Losing to bad back Fed? Capable of beating Fed? LOL Fed is BY FAR the best grass-courter of this era and probably all time. If he’s lost in the recent years at Wimbledon that has everything to do with mileage and little to do with a defensive baseliner on grass. The way Federer had played in 2012, not only at Wimbledon, is more than enough to lay out a picture of exactly how well he was playing that year. Particularly when he took the No. 1 ranking at 31, from Novak by the end of that tournament.
And yes, I AM going to say that Roger hasn’t played well at Wimbledon the past two-three years. He can swat aside Murray because he really hasn’t much to hurt Roger with unless Roger is playing really bad. For the most part, Andy’s game doesn’t bother Roger much. Against Novak, he needed to play well and he needed to move well. He hasn’t. It’s only natural and it’s there for all to see. His FH has declined massively, his movement hasn’t been there since at all since 2013 and the only thing helping him right now, is a good serve, thanks to the new racquet and his ability to keep people guessing. Getting Edberg to work on the net game certainly helped too. His variety contributed to his longevity but to even think of Novak as being a grass-courter on par with Roger is hilarious. And a sign of someone who literally started watching tennis in 2008.
As for losing to an “inspired” Rafa. It really doesn’t matter. Inspired or not, Novak is leagues ahead of Nadal on HC and barring a set and half played well below par. And lol, are you telling me that all the times Nadal has lost to Djokovic in a major he hasn’t been “inspired” enough? Unbelievable. I don’t buy such cock and bull.
fedfan’s not yet old enough to leave his mommy’s basement.
Talk about dull. Dull indeed.
What a whinging fanboy.
WTF are you even on this site for anyways?
As Andy would say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtNxV4yZeE
This is the dumb comment that you started trolling with:
“Going by such mythical notions, Sampras probably has a higher ‘peak-level’ than Nadal and Djokovic put together.”
Do you realize how idiotically contradictory that statement is?
First you say it’s ridiculous and mythical, and then you turn around and apply it yourself???
What a dumba$$.
atul,
Sorry, I did not see your comment before I posted my response. I basically said the sabe thing, but it’s good to know that you saw it the same way!
It’s just unfortunate that anyone has to make their point by name calling and insulting someone else. That does not a coherent argument make! If you have to resort to insults, then you don’t have an argument’
Er…Djoko’s BHDTL is/was never going to be comparable to the much superior FH of Rafa and Fed.
Rafa beat both Fed and Djoko on clay not only because he moves better than both, but also because of his topspin FH. People talked about Rafa’s CC FH to Fed’s SHBH, and said that Djoko could handle that same CC FH better, but Rafa also has his inside out CC FH and his FHDTL that caused problems for Djoko.
Prior to 2015, Rafa was also quick enough on clay to run around his BH to hit his I/I FH DTL. Rafa’s FH weapon, together with his movement, was enough to beat Djoko at the FO despite Djoko having a better serve and ROS, and despite Djoko’s BH.
^LOL, yes it does. Just because a certain kind of FH may cause problems for Djokovic doesn’t mean the reverse doesn’t work. Djokovic’s BH when on, gives fits to pretty much anyone he’s facing. That is why this “peak-to-peak” BS doesn’t hold.
Fedfan’s name says it all.
Give him a break Lucky/VR.
He’s too attached to his fading hero and there’s no logic with a rabid fanboy like that.
#GetWellSoon
#HopeYouFindANewJob
Nobody says that BH doesnt work, its just doesnt match the level of Fed and Rafa’s FH, I thought that’s obvious!
You talk of Novak’s BHDTL shot as if its the go to shot but how often he can hit that? Novak’s BH, be it CC or DTL can never match up with Rafa’s FH CC or DTL or I/O CC on clay, simple as that. If not, how come Novak kept losing to Rafa at the FO? Its on the HC that Novak has the edge as he hits a flatter shot whilst Rafa’s topspin doesnt work as well on the HC.
Yes it does. 😉 And he’s used it very often actually, particularly in 2011. It’s not like the DTL FH is a regular feature of Dull’s play. He needs to be supremely confident to hit those or, as is the case now, hit them to compensate for his decline. Not like it’s made much difference lately. In fact, given Nadal’s technique on his FH I’m surprised he hasn’t had wrist problems earlier in his career.
And you just made my point for me. Who does well at their so-called “peak-level” is dependent on the surface. Not on who is better.
Ha, Djoko only did his BHDTL well in 2011 and since then he hardly hit it often as he couldnt maintain that level! Rafa hit his FHDTL very well in 2013 and also in 2014 FO. In fact he won that FO mainly because of his FHDTL. Compared to Djoko, Rafa used his FHDTL more often (prior to 2015) than Djoko used his BHDTL.
Well, only Rafa could hit that topspin FH without problem. Wrist injuries, well that happened to many players, do they all have bad technique? Fed has his back issue, does that mean he also has bad serving technique?
Novak said it himself – he had no answer for the DTL forehand! So that is from the man himself! There you have it.
Case closed!
Lol WUT? I’ve seen him use that shot quite often. Mind you, Nadal hasn’t used that shot often enough to be called a regular feature of his game. It’s a good strategic ploy. That’s it.
Either fedfan is unemployed by his own definition or he needs a third monitor.
^Yes, do come and install a third monitor given how jobless you seem to be….perpetually. But then, it’s likely you don’t know how to do it. I hope you got an education though. Or did you drop out of college to sit in mommy’s basement and troll here? Looks like it.
Go back to jolly ol’ fedfan. You can check the site I gave you.
Funny that you have definition of jobless for others that don’t seem to apply to yourself.
A lot of that going around but you at least seem to be the leader on at least one thing in your obviously small and hypocritical life.
^I don’t need to check anything you send or do not send me given its general irrelevance.
But looks like I was right. You’re basement loser afterall. I certainly seem to have touched a nerve there. 😉
Yes you do need to check it fedfan. As a matter of fact, I know that you already have.
The only thing that touches a nerve is your hypocrisy fedfan – my funny bone to be exact.
Do go on, dear chap.
The difference is: Rafa was hitting his FHDTL without missing, in 2013 and 2014; whilst Djoko hit his BHDTL and missed many, hence he stopped hitting that shot for quite a while. Its only in his second best year so far, in 2015, that he was hitting his BHDTL with authority again.(2015 being his 2nd best year in terms of the level of tennis he played, not the results he got, as the field was generally weaker in 2015 than 2011).
I’m not really getting the difference. It’s not like the field was smoking hot in 2013 either and they both have two years when they’ve used that shot well and consistently.
I guess the bottomline is this: There is almost no way to judge whose peak is better at this stage. Certainly not on arbitrary metrics of “firepower”. The best comparison can only be made surface-wise and even that is subject to a number of variants.
According to fedfan, the only time the field was “smoking hot” was from 2003-07 (except on clay).
You’re a vairiant fedfan of a different sort.
Nah, you’re making a comparison of Djoko’s BH to Fed’s and Rafa’s FH? That’s ridiculous.
Yes, you’re embarrassing yourself (even by your own standards) fedfan.
Get back to “work”.
Im relieved you said that Amy, thanks for getting back to me, i know the feeling about working too hard lol 😉 ….
yes let’s put it all behind us alison! not great posting when exhausted is it? i mean, i lose all perspective! going to take a bit of time off in the brit heatwave tomorrow….
take care!!
Amy im a Brit too, i live in Norfolk, and yeah boiling at the moment, anyhow Novaks entering the part of the year where hes the most dominant, he will be the favorite in the asian swing, and at the WTFs, still alot to play for, enjoy the tennis, and also the heatwave 😉 ….
alison, i live in the south east of england as well. not as east as norfolk though which gets really hot!! am more concerned about rafa than nole in the autumn. he did well this time last year and won all this group matches at the wtf. this year he may not even get there which would be a bummer. hope he manages it!! don’t want his ranking to drop…
Don’t like using such words but how do you respond to someone who has BS, ridiculous, stupid etc for all comments his brain can’t interpret.
Fedfan’s post have so much ridiculousness now that there is not enough time to list them all. Some key points:
-Fedfan in this MYTHICAL world thinks Murray had surgery before French Open 2013!!! LOLLLLL!! Murray’s surgery took place in September 2013
-Fedfan doesn’t understand what firepower is and thinks it is a subjective idea! HOW ABSURD IS THAT! To say Djokovic’s backhand ‘more than compensates’ for Nadal’s and Fed’s forehands is just :S :S :S
No point writing long post to this guy. He will ignore the points to which he has no answer and pick out a handful to call them BS.
So, Fedfan, where the hell is DJokovic’s backhand DTL against Wawrinka?? Can you tell me how many clean backhand winners he is hitting with his backhand DTL? Watch how federer uses his backhand slice to get back into rallies against Djokovic because a deep slice to Djokovic’s backhand (even with good net clearance) is often enough to get you back! Watch the AO 2012 and see how even Nadal’s backhand Slice DTL was not being putaway by Djokovic! It is definitely a relative weakness Djokovic has as he can’t generate enough action on that shot. Watch how Pouille Killed so many of Nadal slices.
Fedfan has no answer as to how Stan keeps getting away by hitting medicore sliced returns to Djokovic and still ends up controlling far more rallies!
Fedfan’s obsession with comparisons peaks is his own and he is blaming me! Why on earth do you not get that the firepower element was discussed primarily to explain why Stan is able to get into rhythm agains Djokovic. Djokovic has his own strengths but you have ZERO idea how matchups work! If djokovic had a massive forehand like Nadal or Federer he could have turned around so many rallies against Stan and not get hit 18 winners by Stan in one set alone and hitting 22 winners in three sets!
-Fedfan talks about Sampras’s PEAK and compares it to Djo/Nadal’s peaks and then says it is so stupid and BS to compare peaks . LOL LOL LOL
-Fedfan has zero understanding about match ups! He doesn’t realize that in 2011 Nadal’s forehand did not have enough variety and Nole was in his comfort zone. In 2011 end Rafa added more tip to his weight (TO ADD EVEN MORE FIREPOWER IN HIS FOREHAND) and started going for more inside-out and DTL forehands. He found some new serving patterns and totally turned the tables that year! Watch highlights of his French Open match and see how dominant Rafa’s forehand is in their baseline rallies. Clearly stands out.
-So Rafa is better than Djokovic just because he moves better on clay? HAHAHAHAHAHA! How the hell was Djokovic playing so much closer to Nadal in best of three sets on clay (for e.g hamburg 2008) but got smoked in RG 2008 in a few weeks time?? Is he saying Nadal started moving better in RG?! Nadal’s FOREHAND reached a whole new level in RG 2008(backhand plays its own role). To deny that Nadal’s forehand is not the reason he has had superiority over Fed and Djoko is just ……. LOL…. To top it all, Djoko was even asked to name the toughest shot he has ever faced,his answer: Nadal’s forehand.
-In Fed fan’s view, 2014 Nole was better than 2013 Nole… but, he still fails to see how Nadal’s forehand decided matters in RG 2014 final and nothing else mattered when it started firing set 2 onwards. WATCH HIGHLIGHTS !
-what is this absurd repitition that nadal is overblown on this website? Am I saying Nadal is the best server or returner in tennis or has the best backhand in tennis? Only calling him the best in which he actually is!
-Fedfan’s brain can’t interpret why firepower was being discussed. He might do it in a few days time may be.
Fedfan’s gem:
“I doubt you understand, that a BH DTL is a much harder shot to master for a double hander than a FH DTL. You would, if you ever played the game. You don’t and I’m not going waste any more time engaging with your pointless mythical notions of “firepower”…”
HOW THE HELL DOES the fact that two-backhanded DTL is harder to hit (which is again crap but let’s believe it for now) prove that Djokovic’s backhand DTL is as effective as Nadal’s or Federer’s forehands!!???? Don’t give a crap whether it is tougher for a player to execute, the point is, it just can’t have the same effect esp when you can’t generate massive power (or unless you are Stan Wawrinka lol). No wonder Djokovic often runs around his backhand because the damage you can do (in terms of opening the court, hitting bigger) can’t generally be the same as with the forehand. And for your limited knowledge, it is totally dependant on the player what he finds easier. Hitting backhands DTL comes so naturally to Djokovic that he won’t find it too tough but someone like Nadal finds it hell tough! Wawrinka also finds it quite natural go to DTL with his backhand and he has more comfortable going DTL with his backhand than his forehand. YOu can find hundred other examples!
-FedFan can’t understand that the conversation started while analyzing Djokovic’s matchup against Wawrinka and that Djokovic has his own strengths but it is FACT that he lacks firepower (relative basis) which simply helps explain some matchup aspects. I am sure he’ll come up with more gems now! stay tuned.
To be clear, Djokovic has perhaps the best two-handed backhand in the game because it is the most well-rounded backhand (ignoring the slice here). He can do damage in so many ways. He spreads the court like none other , takes balls on the rise with such ease but it is his backhand counterpunching that is PEERLESS. It is so hard to force the guy ho hit a slice ; his reach is insane and the depth he can get and the pace he can absorb just make it a ROCK. Nalbandian’s backhand was more aggressive and he could change direction almost as well but when it comes to counterpunching and defending, Novak’s closed-stance backhand is out of this world.
vr,
You tackled the major issues in your rebuttal. I appreciate the restraint that you have been using, despite the unfortunate derogatory insults included throughout fedfan’s responses. If you have to attack people, then it’s because you cannot make a real argument.
Note that Fedfan insists on using the word “dull” in his responses. We can talk about Fed without trying to use derogatory words. Thid is someone who is primarily trying to provoke people and the snide references to there being many Rafa fans here, is proof of that. He merely wants to get a reaction and then proceeds with more attacks.
I think it would be a much better idea to have a real discussion about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the top players with those who are genuinely interested in doing so. It’s not worth responding to someone who is obviously not interested in having that kind of exchange of ideas.
exactly NNY! the ‘Dull’ references are so childish.
To FedFan is doesn’t matter what Novak said in a press conference, what matters is what he says LOLLL
on a serious note, I have no hesitation in saying Djokovic’s ROS, serve and backhand are superior to Rafa’s but some of the weaknesses are facts too ! Rafa’s forehand is a MONSTER and the impact it can have on a match when it is totally on is insane. Fedfan should go ask Fed LOL.
Oh and as per FedFan, Murray doesn’t have much to hurt Federer on Grass!! What sport is this guy watching? seriously!! The 2012 Wimby final was SO DAMN close and who knows what would have happened if the roof hadn’t been introduced! And yeah, the Olympics 2012 final counts for nothing! As much as you can say Fed was tired, Murray was playing insanely well in that final. His second serve return, his backhadn were absurd.
And, whoever mentioned Murray peaking in 2013 was totally right because Murray’s peak depends a lot on how he is hitting his forehand and he was hitting his forehand very aggressively in that period before he had to go out for surgery. But if we are to believe Fedfan, Murray had surgery before RG 2013!!
The 2012 Wimbledon final was anything but close after Federer won the second set. As long as he wasn’t hitting his FH well and hadn’t gotten into a groove at the net, the match was ‘close’. Murray was literally falling all over the place everytime Federer moved into the net once the second set was over.
And yes, the Olympics didn’t mean much given that Roger was pretty much pasted in the semis against a DelPo who played much better tennis than anything Murray played in the Wimbledon final.
“Complete control?” Ahh yes, that explains why Federer got the second *without* the roof and with the kind of net play that Murray only dreams of. Sure man. I’m sure your VB will buy that crap.
deleted
If someone says Novak didnt play well in 2013, then i have to say that person didnt watch any tennis in ’13. He almost beat an inform Rafa at French. He dominated Rafa for the majority of the match at USO ’13 but Rafa still found a way to win & this was when Rafa was playing the best hard court tennis of his career. He won Australian, and lost wimbly finals.
Maybe he watched tennis but, being a Fedfan with a hate-on for Rafa, was desperately looking for any excuse to discredit his amazing year.
#HypotheticallySpeaking
#11-23
RG 2013 5th set was as well as Novak has ever played on clay! Just look at the level of tennis in that set! It was insane. Rafa’s forehand DTL stood out as the shot that decided the set, otherwise it was so even.
I think the fifth set at the 2013 RG was the best pure tennis played by both Rafa and Novak! It was scintillating! Both guys raised their level in that fifth set. It’s worth remembering that Novak was up a break at one point. But I will always remember watching Rafa at one point in the match where he was stamping his foot and pumping his fist and shaking his head as if he was telling himself – I will not lose this match!
Then there was the moment when Novak had a brain cramp and run into the net. He lost that point. But Rafa simply went to a whole other level and just outplayed Novak to get the win.
I could watch that fifth set alone over and over.
SO TRUE! I totally remember that stamping of the foot and shaking of the head and of course the fist pumping 🙂
Yes, Novak lost that point and it was break point Rafa. Novak won that point to pull it back to deuce and looking back, I think I am glad he was able to save that BP because then Rafa was able to win two successive points in ‘normal fashion’ haha…
J Mac called it the best clay court match ever!
Novak looked down and out in set 4 but then he started hitting big returns when Rafa was serving for the match and he got very lively in set 5. I honestly thought at one stage that Rafa’s finally losing to Novak at RG but he had other ideas.
NNY, I replied to your post at 2.28 am
vr,
I can’t find it. I went back up the thread, but it’s so long!
ctrl+F is our friend in these situations 😉 type 2:28 in it , hit enter and magic! haha