They took interesting paths to get there, but Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka have set up an intriguing final matchup at the U.S. Open. In six previous Grand Slam showdowns heading into Sunday, Djokovic and Wawrinka have played four five-setters.
Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka will be squaring off for the 24th time in their careers when they battle for the U.S. Open title on Sunday afternoon.
Although Djokovic is dominating the head-to-head series 19-4, this has to be considered one of the most entertaining matchups in tennis over the past four years. Dating back to the 2013 Australian Open, they have faced each other five times in Grand Slams and four have required fifth sets. The two veterans split a pair of thrillers at the 2013 and 2014 Australian Opens, Djokovic prevailed 6-4 in the fifth in the 2013 U.S. Open semis, and he cruised 6-0 in the fifth last year Down Under before Wawrinka won the 2015 French Open via a 4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 decision in the final.
Speaking of finals, the third-ranked Swiss is an unbelievable 10-0 in his last 10 matches with a title at stake.
“He’s a big-match player,” Djokovic said of Wawrinka. “He loves to play [on] the big stage against big players, because that’s when he elevates his level of performance; just gets much better. I think he was very close to [losing in the third round] in this tournament and he was struggling with his form, but the last couple of matches he’s (been) getting in that shape that is winning him big matches. I lost to him in (the) finals of French Open and I lost to him in (the) quarterfinals of Australia when he won, as well.”
Wawrinka’s appearance in this final did not seem likely when he lost five of his last 10 matches prior to arriving in New York. Moreover, as Djokovic indicated, the No. 3 seed needed to save a match point against Daniel Evans in the last 32 before surviving 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(6), 7-6(8), 6-2. He has also defeated Fernando Verdasco, Alessandro Giannessi, Illya Marchenko, Juan Martin Del Potro, and Kei Nishikori.
Although Wawrinka avoided five-setters in the rest of his matches, no one has enjoyed an easier time in Flushing Meadows than Djokovic. The Serb has benefited from a walkover (from Jiri Vesely) and two retirements (by Mikhail Youzhny and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga) in addition to mostly routine victories over Jerzy Janowicz, Kyle Edmund, and Gael Monfils. As such, the jury is still out on Djokovic’s form in the wake of a Wimbledon setback against Sam Querrey and a Rio Olympics loss to Del Potro. The world No. 1 was also nowhere near his best against Monfils on Friday, but the Frenchman turned in a somewhat bizarre performance to cost himself a chance for an upset.
Still, Wawrinka is well aware of what Djokovic is capable of bringing to the table.
“To play Novak it’s always really challenging,” he assured. “We [have] some many big memories together, especially in Grand Slams, so it’s going to be an exctiting match. The secret is simple: I have to play my best tennis; my best game. I have enough confidence in myself that when I play my best level I can beat him. Hopefully I can bring that Sunday. But it’s the biggest challenge; when you play Novak, the No. 1 player in the final of Grand Slam, it’s the biggest challenge you can have.”
It is also true that Djokovic is vulnerable right now, but at the same time his fortuitous trek through the draw is just what the doctor ordered for a player who had been struggling just a bit physically prior to the tournament. Even though the 12-time major champion showed additional signs of physical issues against Monfils, he is more rested than Wawrinka and should be able to put forth his best showing of the fortnight when it matters most.
Pick: Djokovic in 5
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RT @scambers73: Looked like Djokovic apologised to Wawrinka for the timeout when embracing at the net. Nice touch
yeah he made up for that by embracing stan so nicely at the net …
RT @carole_bouchard: Djokovic fell apart in a way not seen since a long time. Maybe if he had taken 1st set more easily, he’d have let go a bit. But overall
And I kept saying that Stan is a different player. He will never be the player who blows the field away and races to the final. He can have his struggles earlier on but once he finds a way, he can gradually improve and peak in the biggest moment eps against Djokovic.
Djokovic is kind of in a crisis at the moment. I think he’ll take some time off now to settle his personal issues and health issues. There is time to do that obv.
I think Stan is one of the rare on the tour who believes in his abilities to beat Novak. That’s why he played key points so strongly both mentally and physically! Wawa was really bursting with confidence! And Novak was outplayed today!
yup…. he even once said that he best of five is a different story for him vs Novak! His self-belief is more in best of 5 as opposed to best of 3!
He relishes the challenge.
For now, Rafa has 2 more slams than Nole lol.
I remember thinking as I watched the match progress, that Stan really seemed to believe he could win. That is half the battle! He started playing like it and adjusted his tactics accordingly.
I confess that I was not sure that
Stan could play well enough to beat Novak. He did seem to be peaking at the right time heading into the final. I also wondered how well Novak would play. He did come out playing very well, but as the match went in there were signs that not all was good with him. He had more DF’s than one would expect from him, especially in crucial moments of the match. Stan got stronger and Novak seemed to fade.
I do think that Novak needs some time to recuperate both mentally and physically. He said in his post-match on court interview that he wasn’t sure if he would even be playing at the USO. So there does seem to be some physical issue, because his serving wasn’t great. He didn’t really look that good in the few matches that he did play. He was never really tested and that’s not good in a slam. This match was physical and went more than three sets and Novak was struggling.
He needs some time off to recharge.
agreed.
Vajda also said a few days back that they considered pulling out from the USO!
(AT 2:52 AM)
Vajda said Djoko considered not playing at the USO because of his LEFT WRIST injury. I wonder how it influenced his serve (except the ball toss).
The New York Times, Sept. 7, 2016 (excerpts):
¤¤ Marian Vajda, one of his coaches, confirmed that Djokovic had seriously considered not playing at the Open at all because of a left WRIST injury that was hampering his two-handed backhand.
“I was very worried about it,” Vajda said. “It takes time to heal something like this, and there was no time, just two weeks to three weeks. So we were all worried. We didn’t expect this performance here, basically because all the diagnoses, everything, led us to think that we should consider not to play the tournament, basically. He needed more rest.”
There was also the WRIST injury, which Djokovic said he had sustained a few days before the Rio de Janeiro Games and which Vajda said had required extensive treatment in New York. ¤¤
(B.Becker said: “He has now admitted to be carrying a wrist strain at Wimbledon.” Gulf News, August 10, 2016.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/07/sports/tennis/novak-djokovic-us-open.html?_r=0
vr,
Your take on the match while in progress was spot on! You really sensed when things were changing and understood what Stan needed to do.
Well done!
?
thanks NNY 😀
hope you enjoyed the tennis !
Foresight and hindsight – Big difference! 😉
The minute he saved match point against evans and survived I knew he was danger from then on.
Djoko arguably the best hard courter is 2 – 5 in USO finals
Ironic and surprising
Lost 2 to rafa 1 each to Fed Murray and stan
Sanju, he is the best on slow-medium hard courts… not on medium-fast hard courts. Would give that to Federer or Sampras
Pete.
he was incredible.
2014 onwards Stan has won 3 slams..more than what rafa + fed + Murray have
Oh dear! Stan alone > than Rafa, Murray, Fed combined, beating Djoko thrice in slams with 1 loss (AO2015 SF) whilst the trio managed 1 win (Rafa FO2014) and 10 losses to Djoko in the same period!!!
Btw what injury is Novak exactly carrying ? Left wrist or right wrist or elbow of leg or toe.
Each match different parts of body seem to be injured 🙂
Who knows? But when you have an injury it’s very easy to acquire other injuries, sometimes you can hurt another part by trying to protect the injured part. Plus Djokovic had very little match play until the quarter finals. That could have led to foot problems.
For instance I’ve always suspected that Rafa’s back problem during the AO 2012 final occurred because he had a big blister in a bad spot on his left palm. It interfered with his service motion – he felt like he’d lose the racket, and did lose it a few times in practice.
It is true that other parts of the body can get injured when one has an injury. It’s called over-compensation. Other parts of the body become strained because they have to do more to protect the injured area.
Something has been off with novak’s serve, so it could be wrist or shoulder. But he had some kind of issue with his toe in the final. The ESPN commies incorrectly said that he was cramping. But he started to limp and then took off his shoes on the MTO to have the trainer look at his toes. He was treated twice late in the match.
They showed a closeup of his foot and there was a bandage that had blood on it. I do think it could have been something that happened because of too little match play. Maybe a bad blister.
NNY
The problem is knowing if and where he is injured or if he just needs a bit of a sitdown. In fact he has never had to miss any important matches due to injuries in spite of the legions of MTOs and retirements during his career. Being allowed to take an MTO for a pedicure during a match takes the biscuit. He had a callous on his foot, it was not even a bad blister!!!!!!!!
Q. But what about the fairness of the timeout and the timing of the timeout? What were your thoughts about that?
STAN WAWRINKA: For me, I just ask the umpire because he asked the physio when he was serving and we played maybe seven more points and everything. I just wanted to know exactly what was the rule.
That’s it. If your opponent is struggling, if he has blood coming out, you have to stop. So when the umpire and the referee came to me saying, It’s like that. It’s just happening. We have to stop for him because there is blood coming out. We have to make sure he’s going to be okay.
ed251137 (AT 1:19 PM),
At his press-conference, Djoko said that ‘his toenails were off and bleeding’.
US OPEN
Sunday, September 11, 2016
Novak Djokovic
Press Conference
Q. “What exactly was your fourth-set injury? What effect was it having on you?”
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: “Just the toenails were off and bleeding. Yeah, it was quite painful to move around. You know, I tried.”
http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2016-09-11/novak_djokovic_interview_final.html?chip=1
To add to my post AT 2:04 PM, I did some research and made screenshots. I don’t know what it is, but that’s what he had:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsHr81RWIAEjnuG.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsHsAT5WAAA3qBZ.jpg
It was nice of Stan to say Djokovic is a big part of what he is today.it all started in 2013 ao 4th round where he lost 12 10 in 5th set.
Yeah that match really put him on the radar it seemed and that plus his tough loss at 2013 U.S. open semis set him up for some revenge at the aus open 2014 where he’d capture his first of three slams and counting. Come on Stan!! LETS GO!!
When the commies start yapping about MTO’s and whether they’re necessary I always wonder just what kind of shenanigans they used to pull that has made them so suspicious. Djokovic is far from my favorite player but the guy does not call MTO’s for nothing or to disrupt his opponent. Or upset the commentators for that matter.
I didn’t like it too at that moment but I think you are right. Djokovic has matured a lot and calling for unnecessary MTO’s is something he has not done.
I agree with Ramara and vr. I initially was upset and concerned about Novak stopping so suddenly when Stan got the break and the momentum in the fourth set.
But seeing what happened and realizing that’ it was not cramps but some kind of toe issue, made it clear that something was going on. Novak did apologize to Stan while he was getting treatment. Stan certainly was okay with it after the match.
They hugged at the net and all seems to be good. I think the better player today win the match. Stan deserved to win and Novak taking the MTO’s did not cost him.
This is the first time I post here. I just couldn’t help myself when I read your comment. Please remember 2014 Wimbledon final. Prior to set 5 Fed had the momentum firmly on his side and ND called a lengthy MTO, or toilet break. AO 2015 final, he was limping at some point yet running like Usaine Bolt in the rallies. His antics are endless
Usain Bolt!
yeah well everyone’s antics are endless aren’t they.
put anyone under a magnifying glass and they’ll look pretty much the same ie deeply flawed.
Fed was losing to Davydenko at AO. He admitted to taking a bathroom break so he could wait for the sun to move out of his line of sight.
The Swiss also revealed he had used a toilet break to his advantage at the end of the first set after Davydenko had broken him twice to take the initiative.
‘I was having problems with the sun in my eyes also in the opening set,’ Federer said.
‘I was waiting for it to move. I never use my toilet breaks so I thought I will use it and I hoped that maybe in that time the sun would move maybe one centimetre, maybe three.
vamosrafa
He cleaned up his act considerably after the famous spat with Roddick at the 2008 USO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVh_d2zmeac
whoops
posted wrong clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o28_Vmt7t-8
I loved what he said.
He was being honest.
Roddick was a turd.
Now he has cleaned up his act, is more polished and understands that he has to be careful what he says (even if he is right and just calling it as it is).
This is why Gulbis says the top players are too boring – because they have PR approved (non)answers.
i thoght roddick behaved like an alpha male testosterone charged tosser as well. nole had his faults but so what?? he’s very different now..which player doesn’t have faults for heaven’s sake?
ALLEZZZZ STANNNNNNNNN!!!! IM SO PUMPED
I’m not saying he is faking it , he must be having a pull here and there but he was fine first 3 sets and was already down 2 sets by then.
Stan deserves the win.
Also surprising that djoko is always holding some body part or other when he is down in the match.Thankfully Stan did not buy it like Murray has in the past.
Thats called pulling the Serena lol
Did you not see the blood and level of play? Djokovic apologized and tried his best while on court, did not throw Stan off. Maybe the timing of the break wasn’t the best but then again the rules are there for a reason.
He would have lost regardless. The fact is, the reason Novak has been so good post 2015 is because his serves and returns were fantastic, especially on big points. He has gradually declined in both aspects post AO 2016, and he needs to retool and take a break I think. When you hit 30, it really starts becoming about peaking in the majors.
Stan defo knows how to bring it in slam finals. It’s the day-in-day out consistency that’s a problem but that’s part of what makes him so exciting. Just never know which one will show up.
Stan fully deserved the victory, I was especially impressed by how he used his serves through the match. Novak does have a matchup problem with Stan in slams, partially because they usually meet deep in the slams and Stan has his timing going by that point. Novak isn’t always at his best when he wins majors, perhaps the AO 2016 was an example of it, but since then his serve and to a lesser extent, ROS have gone off the boil.
Time to rethink the schedules and what he wants to achieve. To be honest, I don’t know if he has the motivation to do the retooling required to win multiple majors next year, but if he does, I’m sure he’ll be back to his winning ways. The problem is, him and Becker don’t seem as focused anymore.
Yup… not sure what’s wrong with him. In my view he has been having second serve issues for quite some time now. I doubt it was tactical but his first serve pace were noticeably lower this year in Australia and that he was guarding his second serve may be… the issues have been manifest in the last few months now. There are talks about his private issues as well and some rumours that he has an issue with his wife.
Don’t think he’s going anywhere any time soon though. He will be back at it in Australia. I do however see him pulling out of a couple of tournaments now. He might not but I think he will.
And, yeah he is not at his best in best of 5 in slams. I have said it many times that he is the top best of three sets player but there are a few players who when on their peak level have the edge over him. Stan and Rafa have been two players who fit the bill and Federer too sometimes. But, he is still capable of playing his best and has shown it often enough. He has beaten all these players in slams and is a massive champion. It is all relative.
As NNY mentioned, let’s not forget he won 2 slams and the Nole slam this year….it’s been his year again and he’ll end as no.1 as well.
Vamosrafa (AT 8:04 AM) says:
“There are talks about his private issues as well and some rumours that he has an issue with his wife.”
===
.
You must have read Bristish tabloids. 😆
To add to my post AT 8:59 AM,
[augusta08 AUGUST 31, 2016 AT 7:48 PM]
https://tenngrand.com/social/player-pages/novak-djokovic/comment-page-21/#comment-153378
And correction: Bristish ➽ British
that’s why I wrote ‘rumours’ …I hope that helps you. have seen you cracking the same ‘joke’ 10 times now :/
(AT 1:07 PM),
Djoko himself said in his interview he had personal problems during Wimby. It’s funny that (some of) Djoko fans say that it’s just a rumour created by tabloids. 🙂
Hope that helps.
What do some of Djoko fans say is a rumour created by tabloids?
What a load of BS.
Rafa’s career statistics on Wikipedia states clearly that 2004 was the last time that Rafa failed to make it to a slam semi before this year. It’s funny that (some of self-claimed) Rafa fans say that it’s factually incorrect. 🙂
Hope that helps.
What is this mythical “peak” level that Stan and overblown-on-this-website “Rafa” and only ‘occasionally’ Federer have that Djokovic doesn’t have? Novak has as high a peak as anyone I’ve seen. It’s almost impossible to separate players on their peak-based level at this stage. Going by such mythical notions, Sampras probably has a higher ‘peak-level’ than Nadal and Djokovic put together. It’s easy for most defensive baseliners to feel cornered when the more aggressive player gets it going and Stan typically plays these matches with very little on the line for him in terms of history. It’s amazing to watch but Novak is the guy everyone’s chasing right now and it’s not an easy pressure to deal with if it’s also dribbled with other problems. I’m no fan of his (far from it) but it is ridiculous to make such claims.
don’t know why you always have to come across as aggressive and call things ridiculous which you couldn’t understand- not our fault 🙂 Anyway, here is the answer to your questions:
-Djokovic lacks (ON A RELATIVE SCALE) firepower in his baseline game when compared to Nadal and Federer. Djokovic is insanely consistent and efficient but he does have the monster forehands possessed by Nadal and Federer. For e.g., Nadal can change the entire rally with one forehand DTL and it is over. When he is aggressive with his forehand, he is able to impose his game a lot more authoritatively against Stan as Stan’s gets pushed back and his backhand can’t be the same.
-Look at the rhythm Stan gets against Djokovic. He won’t be able to get the same rhythm on a consitent basis against Fed and esp Rafa when those two are on/near their best levels. Djokovic is a wall and actually an aggressive baseliner. He can dictate play and stay on the baseline but yeah it is a fact that he lacks fiepower ON A RELATIVE basi. His backhand his worldclass but throw in a decent backhand slice to his backand and he can’t generate that much pace. Same for his regular CC backhand.
-Some examples might help you :
i) french Open 2014 final: Nadal lost the first set but then his forehand DTL came into play right from the first game. It was totally on fire and that shot alone decided the whole match literally. It was too big and too good for any of Djokovic’s shots. It had such an impact that Djokovic mentioned Nadal’s forehand DOWN THE LINE specifically in the presser and said he had no answers today!! I have never seen a player naming a specific shot of their opponent like that…
2 USO 2013 is another example on a hard court this time. Nadal’s backhand was actually a safe shot that day and he was hitting a lot of slices but one shot that changed the tempo of the match again and again was his forehand DTL.
*Watch the fifth set of the 2013 RG semi and you will notice the same.
-Djokovic is perhaps the most balanced base-liner amongst the three but firepower a little bit of an issue when compared to the very best. That is why I feel Nadal has had more success against him in slams and not masters because Nadal tends to peak in the later stages of slams with regards to his aggressive game.
-You need to watch highlights of some matches if it is still not clear. Even Nadal’ backhand CC has a lot more firepower than Djokovic’s backhand. Djokovic’s backhand>> Nadal’s but again a littlee bit of that firepower issue which puts him in a tough situation against Stan! It was interesting to see AGAIN that in set 3 alone Stan had 18 winners and Djoko had 22 winners for the whole match.
Hence, he runs into that problem against Stan. Also notice that Stan gets away with numerous slice returns and starts the rally. We know what happens when you give ordinary sliced returns to Nadal’s or Federer’s forehands 🙂
vr,
I appreciate the examples you gave in specific matches regarding Rafa’s DTL forehand. I happen to think that this shot has been a game changer. It’s probably the single shot that gave Rafa such an advantage in slam matches with Novak. That was the key
to Rafa regaining the advantage against Novak after losing seven consecutive matches in a row starting in 2011 and ending at the 2012 AO, where rafa found the answers. Rafa would get the better of Novak in slams starting with the clay season in 2012 and for the next two years. The DTL forehand was the key to his success.
Using Novak’s own words to the effect that he had no answer for Rafa’s DTL forehand was also important. How often do you hear a player say something like that?
We know that Rafa has not been himself or at his best for the last two years. He has now lost a number of consecutive matches to Novak. But this is not the same Rafa who dominated Novak in slams from the clay season in 2012 through to the clay season of 2014.
Watching the matches would be an even better way of appreciating the significance of that one shot.
NNY, I just read this. Your post backed up mine perfectly, thanks.
And yeah, Novak mentioning one specific shot and saying he had not no answers is unheard of! Have never heard ANY player saying Delpo’s inside-out forehand or Fed’s inside out forehand was just too much for me. Players usually refer to their forehand or backhand being too good on the day. The impact Rafa’s forehand DTL has had on the biggest of stages is HUGE. I’ve literally seen Djokovic feeling like pulling his hair out whenever Rafa got that shot going.
Even though Rafa was not hitting his DTL forehand well in 2011 overall, he did start going for it in USO 2011 3rd set and we saw one of the highest quality sets of tennis in that year with Rafa stealing the set from Novak after coming from a break deficit.
As you said, it is truly a game changer. In the examples I mentioned, he was even hitting some half-volley forehand DTL winners!!
I don’t think Djokovic lacks firepower per se, he definitely hits the ball with a lot of weight. The difference between him and Fed/Rafa is how they attack. With the latter, they vary pace and spin, and thus the change of rhythm they impose on opponents when attacking is greater. Nadal uses heavy topspin to achieve the slower rhythm before he injects pace, and Federer probably does it best after a backhand slice.
The rhythm Novak offers however is relatively constant, there is not much variation in height and spin. His strength lies in redirection of the ball. I think this is simply a case of technique, Djokovic holds his racquet much higher up along the grip, which means he doesn’t use his wrist as much as the other two when he hits.
Nole has an anodyne game that’s why it’s good for someone with a great game to get the better of him plus his luck through the draw was unfair even though it wasn’t his fault.
But you didn’t answer my question..how is he able to hit more winners than Rafa in a lot of their matches?
You mean since Rafa has been suffering from illness and injuries?
No, I mean to say in their head to head history basically. Do you want me to post statistics or you get the idea? 🙂 Don’t have to turn everything into Rafa’s favor without making sense lol
VR, not taking side in this argument but Rafa doesnt hit more winners than Djoko not because he couldnt but because of the way he plays, ie more patient in constructing the points and not in a hurry to go for straight winners.
When Djoko played against Rafa, he usually was the more aggressive one, preferring to go for his shots as much as possible because he knew getting entangled in long rallies with Rafa would be exhausting both physically and mentally.
However, on clay at the FO, the role was reversed; Rafa was the more aggressive one, we saw that in his matches vs Djoko in FO2012/2013/2014; he always started out being the more aggressive one in those matches hence he gained the upperhand in all those matches (2015 was the exception for obvious reasons). Perhaps RG was Rafa’s well guarded backyard, he would not allow anyone to invade it without him fighting to protect it and once Rafa stepped on the clay at RG, he felt so at home on it that he need not take much time to familiarize himself on it.
We also have seen Rafa being aggressive on the HCs and what he could achieve on them, ie NA HC swing of USO SERIES in 2013, beating Djoko there twice. It all boils down to how confident Rafa is with his game, if he’s confident he can produce more aggressive offensive tennis and goes for his shots and hit more winners.
PS. That FO2013 SF, Rafa hit some excellent BH DTL too for some deep touching the corner winners. I feel Rafa needs to get that BhDTL shot working well from his toolbox in addition to his other CC and DTL shots for him to turn things around vs Djoko this time.
Luckystar, thanks for adding those points. I did not want to create an essay out of my post so didn’t write some stuff.
Actually, what you have written is part of what I have been saying. If you noticed, I have written to Nadline twice here that Djokovic hits more winners than Nadal in their matches! I will even go on to say that Djoko is the superior BO3 sets player because he is able to come out playing more aggressive. There are matches where Rafa has done it in masters and defeated Djoko by being more offensive but it is the best of five sets in slams where Rafa has often been able to find his best snd he unleashes his aggressive shots.
The USO 2010 is another example where Rafa’a forehand was the stand-out shot.
Djoko’s brand of tennis rushes opponents into erros when he is playing well. He stays close to the baseline, takes the ball early snd changes direction like NOBODY else can.
Anyone reading these posts, try yo understand that I started them to highlight why stan gets into that rhythm against Djokovic and secondly why Nadal has had success against him in slams.
Remember Rafa vs Delpo wimbledon 2011 match? Delpo was hitting his sick forehands but thankfully Rafa was feeling his Forehand esp the inside out one so well and he actually ended with MORE FOREHAND WINNERS than delpo! Now watch the delpo vs Djo wimbledon battle in 2013…Djoko won but in a diff way.
Djoko can be very aggressive, flattens out his shots more against Rafa but he constructs points and then goes for winners.
If he great firepower in either wing, he would have been able to push stan back much easier and not let stan get away with those sliced returns.
Actually watch the 2010 USO final as well and see how Rafa also used the same tactic. He just blocked back first serves and that was often enough to start a rally BECAUSE of what I have been mentioning. Givr those same returns to Fedal and they’ll kill you.
Djoko has his own weapons and strengths but to me this is undoubtedly a weakness (ONLY A RELATIVE ONE) because his firepower is still way above the average field.
Ah, Luckystar, sorry I thought your post was in response to my post to Fed fan! Haha
Yeah you are write about that one. Rafa has been able to hit more winners in some of their slam matches when he comes out playing his best tennis. USO 2010, FO 2013 (esp fifth set) are examples.But generally, Djoko hits more winners against Rafa esp in B03 because he comes out as the more aggressive player.
You brought Rafa into the conversation remember? I made a comment about Djoker’s style and you immediately compared him to Rafa.
If you have to compare them, Rafa’s takes far more risks with his game but Djoker plays safe unless pushed. By playing safe, Djoker does benefit from his opponents making mistakes. This is not the opposite of hitting winners.
Rafa plays with high intensity in all his matches. Take the SF between Monfils & Djoko at the USO this year, where Monfils handed the first 2 sets to Djoko on a plate. Djoko just moved from side to side hitting mundane shots and not entertaining the viewer. The match was soooooooo boring to watch. Had Rafa been on the other side of the net instead of Djoko, it would have been an exhilarating experience for the viewer.
Yeah because you can’t seem to understand things unless Rafa is brought into the picture! Standing close to the baseline, changing direction frequently and actually painting the baseline with second serve returns is RISKY tennis.
For Rafa’s game, please read my other posts.
No he doesn’t. Nadal on an average plays the safest brand of tennis I’ve ever seen. His serves on an average rarely clock as much as Novak’s do. He stands much further away from the baseline than Novak. And just look at the net clearance. That alone should tell you he doesn’t play risky tennis. Far from it.
He’ll have an occasional tournament where he’s supremely confident and goes for more than usual. But on an average he’s as far away from taking risks as a player can be. Nadal laid out the blueprint for defensive tennis in the game and Novak, if anything, has taken his cues from there. Unfortunately, that is the kind of tennis that succeeds more often in today’s game.
Your pen name tells me all I need to know about your biased views,
Unlike nadline’s pen name no doubt.
Fedfan, have you thought of writing fiction? You’ll do well.
And speaking from her vast experience at doing just that fedfan, she’d know.
I was keeping my fingers crossed that Rafa would give me the ultimate birthday present yesterday by winning the title but that was not to be.
didn’t see the match. just had a look at live scores last night for a while and went to bed. but nole shouldn’t have let it get into something physical which he was probably going to lose. he had so many break points in the first set when already up a break and played a game with several dfs when serving for the set to donate his serve. he could easily have won the first set 6-1 or 6-2. then he would have conserved energy. he again donated his serve early in the second for no reason with another couple dfs..had 0-40 the very next game on stan’s serve and couldn’t take the points. then i went to bed. but looking at the scores at that point he could and should have been coasting that match. i don’t care how well stan might have played later. he was making masses of unforced errors and the usual nole would have just put him away not let him back into the match and given him belief. i had a feeling that that would be very costly and that nole would lose it physically.
by jan next year when he’s had a chance to rest he’s still the absolutely prohibitive fave to win ao.
is it actually a thing which happens to great champions when they get older that they stop being able to convert break points??!
we all know fed has been like that for ages now and rafa has struggled as well in the last couple of years. now nole isn’t converting them either!!
just read that nole was only 3/17 on break points. that’s the story of the match right there. that and the uncharacteristic double faults, several a game, to donate his serve at crucial moments. nerves really, mixed in with the fact that sth is obviously affecting his serve, sth physical.
i said that stan would win. but looking at the stats nole could have won that match in straights given the chances he had and the number of unforced errors from stan
You’re exactly right. 3/17 isn’t going to get it done and seems to be a symptom of great players feeling the pressure in the third term of their careers. Same for Fed, Rafa.
Stan was a deserved winner, ifs, buts, woulds, coulds, shoulds, mean doodle squat in the real world, nothing against Novak but its his fault that he couldnt convert on BPs, and not Stans fault that he could, he took his chances Novak didnt so tough bloody luck im afraid, Novaks an amazing player, and will probably go on to be the best ever only time will tell, however as the great champion he is, he certainly wont be making a load of BS excuses, he will say Stan was the better player and move on ….
I actually have to agree with Alison regarding the final. Stan was the better player in that match. I think vr did a great job during the live blog of pointing out what Stan was doing to take control of the match. Novak’s serve was off. You don’t see him have that many DF’s in the crucial moments of s slam final. Stan was physical and stayed with him in done tough rallies and seemed to wear down Novak with his powerful groundstrokes.
I am not a fan of either player, so it was easier for me to watch the match objectively. Stan got stronger as the match went on. Novak certainly did not take advantage of his break chances and some of that was because Of Stan’s clutch serving.
There are no excuses. Stan deserved the win I think Novak will be fine. He needs to take some time and decompress. He still had s great year and there is no readon to think he is going anywhere.
Alison, i didn’t see the match. i just saw live scores and the play by play for the first set and a bit. it endlessly signalled break points for nole and unforced errors for stan. that was all i was commenting on. quite why you want to be rude and use phrases like tough bloody luck, and bs excuses is beyond me. i have my partiality and way of seeing and you have your’s that’s all. i remember being very polite and welcoming to you when you first came on this site and don’t appreciate your ott language. you could have said the exact same thing without being rude.
New news: Djoko was struggling with his serve ‘because of what he carried into this tournament’ – a problem with the ARM.
US OPEN
Sunday, September 11, 2016
Novak Djokovic
Press Conference
Q. “…I don’t know if you were nervous, but two doubles in the same set is not usual for you.”
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: “I made a lot of double faults throughout this tournament. I was struggling with that shot and with, you know, with the motion, with the movement and on the serve, with the technique because of what I carried into this tournament.
So, you know, I was working a lot on it and trying to find that rhythm, but my body has kind of compensated and, you know, made some different things to protect the problem I had with the arm.
You know, unfortunately it wasn’t — the serve wasn’t there. When it was needed it wasn’t there, and in the big matches like this you need the serve. I lost decisive games in second and third set. Just handed him over with some unforced errors and bad serves. But, you know, I guess I was trying to protect the serve, I guess, with other shots, but it wasn’t to be today.”
http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2016-09-11/novak_djokovic_interview_final.html?chip=1
The poster AT 1:16 PM is factually incorrect.
Stan has been the 2nd best GS player the past 3 years. No small feat. Nobody else besides Nole and Stan has more than 1 in that period. Those are the big 2 right now. Murray could only beat Robonic for his 1 GS so he is 3rd.
2nd best GS player.
Yup agreed.
That’s what happens for him when he leaves his wife and young child to focus on his (young) tennis (player).
#MirkasRight
She doesnt look as young as she is but I dont think we should be worried about his personal life. His business.
No, I don’t worry about him. She just turned 20 BTW.
But how a person behaves off the court, for me, affects how I respect him on the court as well as off. It is different for everybody.
That’s one big reason why my favourite player is Rafa.
Fair enough.
Novak speaks to this after his loss yesterday:
“For me, success is not just winning tennis matches and winning trophies, you know. It’s more than that. I guess my main source of playing tennis, main source of motivation for playing the sport, is because I really like it. It’s my choice to do it.”
“But, you know, once you get to the top and you have that privilege, status, and position, then I guess the importance of what you say, how you behave, what you do, is much larger. Just not comparable to any other position in the rankings or so forth.
So I guess that kind of privilege, status, taught me a lot of lessons in life, and I got experience. I learned a lot about myself, about who I should be, who I should become, and it’s an everyday evolution for me and for everybody else.”
Again I agree. I do not judge players based on their personal lives. I am not the morality police. We do not know what happens behind closed doors.
I judge Stan based on what he does on the court. I also don’t judge him based on the age of his girlfriend.
No, that’s what happens when an underachiever hires a great coach that can inspire belief. A great coach can do that for the right person. If you’ve ever been in a relationship like that, it feels like magic.
Years ago – 6 or 7 – I read something from a writer saying that if Stan played as well as he practiced he’d be a worldbeater. Maybe I remember because I’d always thought Stan’s game was better than his ranking was then. Anyway, Stan is now, at times, playing as well as he practices. But even his coach says he never knows what he’s going to get from Stan from week to week.
Ramara,
I think you make some good points. I also always thought Stan’s game was better than his ranking. I remember when he beat Murray at the USO one year in the third round, I believe. I remember thinking how well he played and why wasn’t he getting better results. That was before Magnus Norman came along.
This is a case where a player found a coach who was able to make him believe in himself. The results speak for themselves.
Agreed. Magnus deserves a great deal of credit.
+1 NNY, Magnus is a genius!
@Ramara, just wanted to say that your posts are generally very good. Your contributions here are much welcome 🙂
@vamosrafa, thank you for your kind comment!