They took interesting paths to get there, but Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka have set up an intriguing final matchup at the U.S. Open. In six previous Grand Slam showdowns heading into Sunday, Djokovic and Wawrinka have played four five-setters.
Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka will be squaring off for the 24th time in their careers when they battle for the U.S. Open title on Sunday afternoon.
Although Djokovic is dominating the head-to-head series 19-4, this has to be considered one of the most entertaining matchups in tennis over the past four years. Dating back to the 2013 Australian Open, they have faced each other five times in Grand Slams and four have required fifth sets. The two veterans split a pair of thrillers at the 2013 and 2014 Australian Opens, Djokovic prevailed 6-4 in the fifth in the 2013 U.S. Open semis, and he cruised 6-0 in the fifth last year Down Under before Wawrinka won the 2015 French Open via a 4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 decision in the final.
Speaking of finals, the third-ranked Swiss is an unbelievable 10-0 in his last 10 matches with a title at stake.
“He’s a big-match player,” Djokovic said of Wawrinka. “He loves to play [on] the big stage against big players, because that’s when he elevates his level of performance; just gets much better. I think he was very close to [losing in the third round] in this tournament and he was struggling with his form, but the last couple of matches he’s (been) getting in that shape that is winning him big matches. I lost to him in (the) finals of French Open and I lost to him in (the) quarterfinals of Australia when he won, as well.”
Wawrinka’s appearance in this final did not seem likely when he lost five of his last 10 matches prior to arriving in New York. Moreover, as Djokovic indicated, the No. 3 seed needed to save a match point against Daniel Evans in the last 32 before surviving 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(6), 7-6(8), 6-2. He has also defeated Fernando Verdasco, Alessandro Giannessi, Illya Marchenko, Juan Martin Del Potro, and Kei Nishikori.
Although Wawrinka avoided five-setters in the rest of his matches, no one has enjoyed an easier time in Flushing Meadows than Djokovic. The Serb has benefited from a walkover (from Jiri Vesely) and two retirements (by Mikhail Youzhny and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga) in addition to mostly routine victories over Jerzy Janowicz, Kyle Edmund, and Gael Monfils. As such, the jury is still out on Djokovic’s form in the wake of a Wimbledon setback against Sam Querrey and a Rio Olympics loss to Del Potro. The world No. 1 was also nowhere near his best against Monfils on Friday, but the Frenchman turned in a somewhat bizarre performance to cost himself a chance for an upset.
Still, Wawrinka is well aware of what Djokovic is capable of bringing to the table.
“To play Novak it’s always really challenging,” he assured. “We [have] some many big memories together, especially in Grand Slams, so it’s going to be an exctiting match. The secret is simple: I have to play my best tennis; my best game. I have enough confidence in myself that when I play my best level I can beat him. Hopefully I can bring that Sunday. But it’s the biggest challenge; when you play Novak, the No. 1 player in the final of Grand Slam, it’s the biggest challenge you can have.”
It is also true that Djokovic is vulnerable right now, but at the same time his fortuitous trek through the draw is just what the doctor ordered for a player who had been struggling just a bit physically prior to the tournament. Even though the 12-time major champion showed additional signs of physical issues against Monfils, he is more rested than Wawrinka and should be able to put forth his best showing of the fortnight when it matters most.
Pick: Djokovic in 5
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VR, can you read? Coz I don’t think you can. I used the Sampras example to show that literally anyone can make “peak-to-peak” arguments on completely arbitrary grounds. And if you actually read my posts you might find a number of other obvious errors of comprehension from your side but I don’t think you will because as long as you can write lengthy, meaningless diatribe, that can and somehow does seem to substitute to truth with you and your ilk, addressing the actual premise of an argument appears almost meaningless to you and the rest of your VB.
As for Andy’s surgery it really doesn’t matter when he had it as long as we know for certain that he was battling severe back problems which again, refutes the premise that he was somehow “peaking” at the time. But of you want to be pedantic go ahead. Might help you sleep better at night.
Nothing of substance posted by you, again. No surprises there.
Completely ignoring points by me and luckystar to illustrate HOW Murray was peaking before he gott surgery. His level was amazing at that time and then after surgery poor guy lost it. He has restored his slam winning form this year and has a better second serve too now.
And what a way to cover your messed up version ! It doesn’t matter when he had the surgery?!
I guess it is difficult to expect logic from you. I am SHOCKED you still haven’t been able to the see why those points were brought up . Constant references to Wawrinka Djokovic matchup get completely ignored ?! What language should I write the PREMISE in???
And everyone hear is watching who writes diatribes! LOL
Oh snap VR.
I think we have the second coming of scoretracker lol.
“Illustrate?” You mean like how he missed the French Open due to his injury and how, by his own account, he was in a lot of pain at the time? Sure. If you can call it an illustration and that is your definition of “logic” sure. It’s not for anyone that actually gets tennis. You certainly don’t. And why is his current form relevant again? Is that a subject of discussion? Nope. But I guess you had to throw in a non-sequitur to make yourself look smarter than you actually are.
“Your” unable? Sure man. Look at the language police with their supreme linguistic skills at work ;). So much for “lucid pontification.”
Yeah, I post here because the Rafatard fanbrigade bandies about like a bunch of experts on literally every top guy(from the articles that I have read) which they clearly aren’t and somehow ties every single top player to NADAL even though he might have absolutely nothing to do with a given match or news at hand while insulting whichever player they think is convenient/suitable at the time.
And because it’s a good on and off pass time. 😉
Except, ‘coz’ is a colloquial term and ‘your’ for ‘you’re’ is just plain wrong. Try harder and check the pot and kettle once, won’t you. 😉
As for ‘reality’, well the reality is that Federer has won 7 Wimbledons and has by the best overall record on grass courts. That is reality. Ascribing his success at an event to the roof, after he’d won it six times already on the other hand is usually termed as stupidity. Particularly against a guy who cannot even beat him at Wimbledon after he’s turned 34. But like I said, it goes for the dense collective intellect of the VB.
Not really. ‘coz’ is used by those that pick their nose, eat with their fingers, don’t wash their hands and vote trump.
You won’t see anyone with above intelligence using that form.
It’s PASTIME! Get it right if you are going to attack others here!
Your anger is out of control. You came here to instigate and provoke because we are Rafa fans and that’s not okay with you. I have seen Fed fans like you in sites like tennis-x. Too many times! All you do is trash Rafa and his fans because apparently you have nothing else to do with your life.
Vamosrafa is one of the best analysts on this site. For him it’s not just about Rafa and being his fan. He has s genuine love and respect for this sport. He is also one of the nicest people I have encountered on any forum. He doesn’t talk down to anyone and never tries to big himself up. I enjoy the discussions we have had here.
There are great people on this forum who may happen to be Rafa fans. The last time I checked, that was not a crime.
It’s ironic reading your hostile and angry words. I have given credit to Novak and Fed for their considerable achievements in this sport. I respect both of them. I have also been attacked by other Rafa fans here and accused of being a closet Novak fan. I am a Rafa fan through and through and make no apologies for it. But I also appreciate the other top players and what they bring yo tennis.
It is really shameful to see you attacking others here specifically because they are Rafa fans. You are making generalizations about us that have nothing to do with reality.
I would think you could find something better to do with your time than trash people on a tennis site.
Pass time????
Another colloquialism no doubt from Mr. peRFect.
Hahahahaha!
Don’t quit your day “job” fedfanatic.
VR you are trying to reason with a piece of driftwood, a mental compost pile.
Not worth your teaching skills.
Your superb tennis knowledge is like a tree falling in the overgrown forest of his wasted mind.
Lol… hawkeye and his sense of humour haha..
Fedfan, so when has Murray played his best tennis then? I mentioned the current form because I am talking about the highest level f tennis played by Murray in his career so far and that to me has happened on two occasions !! What the heck are you on to??
He was not fit and skipped RG as he did not want to risk his health before wimby. His level of tennis was quite extraordinary and his forehand was so damn aggressive in that 2012-13 periods luckystar and I have mentioned.
I am sure you will still find a way to post completely worthless though.
Well, it IS his “pass” time to be fair VR.
What a goof.
Fedfan calls Nadal the most defensive baseliner he has ever seen. Think he forgot to realize that the same player defeated Federer on GRASS LOL. Most defensive baseliner has 2 slams on grass on 3 runner ups.
No point talking logic with this guy no matter how hard you try.
I guess I am off this now.
Thanks for making me realize, Hawkeye.
“2 slams and 3 runner ups.” Sure. After mightily struggling in the first week of nearly every year he’s played when the grass plays somewhat like it’s supposed to play. And boy how it’s caught up now. 😀
So what with struggling in the first week? He still reached the final right? Didnt Fed also struggled to reach the FO final in 2009 too? Or during earlier rounds at USO and AO too even during his heydays?
It caught up with Rafa? Oh, thats because of his knee issues when he could no longer bend his knees the way he could during his younger days.
the pattern continues…. he has NO answer to 90% of the points so he cherry picks a one or two and come up with a gem.
Yeah, he struggled in week 1 but none of those struggles equate to the struggle Federer had to go through to Win his RG!!
Also, It was smooth sailing for Rafa throughout the tournament in the tournament where he dethroned your idol in 2008. He just dropped a set 7-5 to Gulbis who was in tremendous form and that could have happened to anyone!
look at Djokovic’s path to the WImbledon 2011 final. Dropped a set in each of round 3, quarter final and the semi final.
In 2014 wimbledon, Djokovic dropped 4 sets en route to the final (one of those sets being dropped in a TOUGH 4-set win over Stepanek)
IN 2015, we know Djokovic almost lost to Anderson in Rnd 4 AND we know what happened in WImbledon 2016 against Querrey.
Actually, it is no big deal to lose sets on grass early on because it is quite tricky and players are adapting. Federer has one of the best serves in the game and that MASSIVELY helps in keeping those risky players at bay. Grass is a natural surface for Fed’s game and I don’t know what’s the big deal with struggling in week 1 .
‘And boy how it’s caught up now’
WHAT?! :S a new low…
The previously weak era field caught up and passed federer in 2008.
He could never go through Rafa to win another slam after Rafa turned 22.
In sadfan’s view, McEnroe wasn’t much more impressive than Rafa on grass with just one more W title and the same number of finals.
Nah, he’s just sad “coz” federer, his “pass time” is long “pass” his best before date.
“Oh that’s because of his
Knee issue”. Hahaha. For FOUR years in a row? Like I said, the density of the VB logic is truly impregnable. 😛
We are now supposed to believe that a guy who avoids the net like a plague,is among the great grass courters of his times and applaud his backboarding on grass. Hahaha. 😛 You can’t beat the VB stupidity.
As for Fed struggling at RG- yeah of course he did. He’s not a clay courter as hard as he may have tried and in any other, less homogenised era, would’ve probably avoided RG altogether or at the very least not tried so hard since the concept of a ‘career slam’ anyway didn’t exist until Agassi’s win there.
JMac “only” made five Wimbledon finals with one more title than Rafa.
” as long as you can write lengthy, meaningless diatribe,”
Reusable for every single fcukwad post you’ve made here.
You haven’t a clue beyond the brim of your no doubt greasy RF cap.
Not just VR but no one can read your BS laced posts lol.
Life is more than Roger. Go outside and get some fresh air.
Exactly VR! Fed dropped sets, went five sets even, at AO and USO and in the early rounds too in his heydays. In fact Rafa has played the fewest five setters at the slams, compared to Fed,Djoko and Murray. Rafa only added four lately from 2015 because of his really bad form.
Rafa being the clay court king, was able to make successful transition to grass and mastered the movement on grass so soon (after only playing three times at Wimbledon)to reach the final was nothing to be scorned at. Rafa rarely slipped or fell on grass even during the first week of Wimbledon. It took Djoko much longer to master the movement on grass, and Djoko slipped and fell more often during the first week.
Rafa does not have a great serve like Fed’s hence he has to fight harder to win points on grass, so what’s wrong that sometimes he has to go the distance to win on grass?
Fed had to go to so many TBs on grass to win, its not like he had it easy either. He was also pushed to the limit by Falla in R1 of Wimbledon 2010. I dont see why Rafa reaching five finals at Wimbledon and winning two of them one of which by beating Fed in the final warrant such derision from a certain Fed fan.
Not to mention Federer’s traditionally cupcake rigged draws.
Before Nole turned his game around remember, Nole was “randomly” put into Federer’s half in 13 straight non-clay slams.
(edited for insult)
I laughed so hard at the TB argument. Fed loves playing TBs. I highly doubt he sees them as a struggle. 😛 If anything, he can bank on TBs if his ground game isn’t working.
And you’re right, Nadal hasn’t played many five setters at the AO. He has simply lost there early more often than not. 😛
sadfan’s “pass time” is living in the “passed”.
Fedfan, please update yourself instead of talking rubbish here. Rafa, after his long injury break in 2012 due to knee injury, is never the same again when he couldnt bend his knees like before to play on grass. Go watch his 2008 match vs Fed and see how low he could bend his knees to deal with Fed’s slices; its no wonder Fed’s slices had no effect on Rafa even on grass!
Have you been watching Rafa? If you have you would have noticed he’s very good at the net, getting even higher % wins than Fed when at the net even though Fed charged the net more often. Its just that he doesnt do it as frequently as Fed does these days.
Fed won his Wimbledon not by charging the net, except in 2003 and 2012. He won primarily from the baseline so dont come here and talk as if Fed was that net charging hero when he won majority of his Wimbledon playing a baseline game.
Fed’s slices have little effect comparatively on the present day grass anyway and against Nadal, his slice sits into the guy’s stronger wing. As for how “Rafa cannot bend his knees”, no one asked him to backboard on grass anyway. If he’s cannot win there anymore he’s got no one but himself to blame for the lack of imagination in his play.
And lol at the winning percentage at the net. How many times on an average does Nadal even move forward? Your percentages drop the riskier your play gets. But then, VB is VB. Trust them to distort stats without actually playing or watching tennis. 😉
Fed’s slices only had effect during the Weak Era.
In slams, Federer could only beat a 21-or-under Rafa on Fed’s best surface.
After just Rafa’s 22nd birthday, Federer went 0-6 vs Rafa in slams on ALL surfaces, two HC and one grass. After Rafa turned just 22 , Federer could never win another slam again if Rafa was in his way.
That’s why Federer and sadfan like to cry. God, it’s KILLING him!!!!
Crying on tennis forums is sadfan’s “pass time”.
Fedfan likes to use the excuse that Andy (not a very good grass player apparently) only beat St. Roger on grass at the Olympics because Del Potro tired him out.
Yet a young 22 year old Rafa after playing a five-set SF beat a peak 27 year old St. Roger in the AO final.
Fedfan, again what’s so great about net charging when you keep losing the point there? If Fed could win from the baseline, you think he wants to charge the net that often? Its only you who think the world of Fed doing net charging on the current surfaces; its not that he’s courageous or imaginative, its just that he cant win anymore from the baseline.
As for Rafa not changing the way he played on grass, too bad for him, he was plagued with knee, back and then confidence issue. He arrived at Wimbledon each time ill prepared. He couldnt even play there this year! Anyway, he has a grass court at his academy now, look forward to him conquering grass again, this time he’ll heed our Fedfan’s advice, make changes to the way he plays on grass!
What’s the point? It shortens the point and keeps the opponent guessing maybe? Adds a little variety to the game? Breaks away from known patterns of play? You know, that way, one can stop playing the injury card every single time they lose to a guy outside the top 100. 😉
Fed likes to use his back excuse for his many losses in 2013 and didn’t stop whining about it throughout 2014 long after it was over.
Then becomes the only player to chicken out of the WTF final against Nole, not because he couldn’t play mind you, but because, in his own words, wouldn’t have a chance to win. Screw the ticket paying public that pays his wages. Miracle recovery to be back on court four days later in Davis Cup.
Luckystar AT 2:19 PM,
Rafa doesn’t have grass courts at his academy. There were no grass courts in Mallorca when they planned to build them at the RN Academy. Probably they changed their plans after it was decided to build grass courts in Santa Ponsa, 80 km/50 miles away from Manacor, Rafa’s hometown.
The Mallorca Open, a WTA tournament, was held on the brand new grass courts in Santa Ponsa in June. Rafa was supposed to practice there this year, but due to his wrist injury he only visited the venue.
Ha, after coming forward so often, where is the guessing? Even his SABF had met with more failure than success! Ahem, still lost at Wimbledon right, despite all the ‘ keeps his opponents guessing’!
Well, Fed wasn’t spared from using the injury card right? After losing to Berdych one year at Wimbledon; and to Stakhovsky (what’s his ranking?) and also to Raonic.
Its OK as long as they have the grass court in his hometown where he can practise there.
Deleted
“Info right?” Ahh yes, the VB now expect others to accept RAFA is a better net player than Roger because out of the rare times he actually bothers to come forward for putting away sitters or the occasional drop volley, he has a better “percentage” than Federer whose net approaches on an average are over twice many as Nadal’s. Lol.
Fedfan somehow thinks that five W finals and two titles does not a great grass player make (including beating his hero in his prime in 2008).
(edited for insult)
LOL!! Fed loves playing TB, of course he does, when he cant even gain any advantage on his opponent even on grass for 12 games in a set. He has no choice does he, that he has to resort to TBs to win, huh? You think he doesnt love it better when he doesnt have to play 13 games to win each set? Mind you, even going to TBs he still managed to lose some of his matches!
Er.. how often did Rafa lost early at the AO? Only once in recent years and that’s in 2016. He made it to at least the QF stage, and better; Fed only managed SF since 2010 when he won there for the last time. How’s Fed any better when he had to barely scrap past five setters during the tournament and then lost eventually?
(edited for insult)
Nobody says Rafa has turned into a net charging player, but when he’s there he’s that good that he wins most points there. What’s the point of charging the net so often and then gets passed by some stunning passing shots from his opponents?
Fed has got no choice now as he’s old and cant win from the baseline anymore so he has to charge the net and hopes to win points there, so he’s doing it ‘twice’ as much as Rafa but not winning as high a % as Rafa.
During Fed’s heydays, he hardly needed to charge the net and that’s why he needs Edberg to help him these past two years to revive his net appoaches. Why need Edberg if Fed is that great at the net game??
To answer your opening queries, I’d definitely say both.
Rafa has great volleys. He should use them even more than he does. Not surprised he’s so successful up there.
Wrong. Even during his heyday, Fed was at the net far more often than Nadal was. In most cases, the number was x2. There are detailed stats on this and I’m sure the internet will give you the number. Federer’s success rate for his number of approaches is actually very very good. It’s not something he ‘switched’ on just because he got old although the frequency is even higher now. He won his first Wimbledon S&Ving on a majority of the first serves.
As for Nadal- this unwillingness to get passed is exactly why he will never be as good as volleyer as Federer and exactly why no one who’s really watched tennis will call him a great grass courter with a straight face. Edberg only came in during 2014. Roger had already amped his net play by then. And why not? Edberg was the best volleyer of his times and his inputs have only helped Roger maximise a skill he already possesses in spades.
But I guess the VB thinks that any skill Dull doesn’t posses is worthless.
Fed called himself an aggressive baseliner. Even if he approached the net twice as much as Rafa, that didn’t change the fact he played primarily from the baseline! If net charging was the way to go back then, why did Fed choose to play from the baseline?
Fed has lost his net approaching skills and that’s why he first engaged Anacone and then Edberg to help him revive his net game. If Fed is so great at the net, he needs no Anacone or Edberg to help him. And why he wants to revive his net game? Not that they quicken the surfaces again, but precisely because Fed cant win from the baseline anymore.
Rafa may not have good S&V skills as he didnt grow up playing in the S&V era; however, he’s good in his net approaches and the timing of his net approaches. He has good volleying skills, soft hands and deft touches, if not he wont even have a higher success rate than Fed when at the net.
Fed is an all courter ( no that isn’t the same as an all surface player). That he prefers the baseline the way Sampras or Laver preferred S&V doesn’t change the basic composition of his game. And he hired coaches the same way all players do. To have a fresh pair of eyes look at their game. Annacone had worked with Pete before he worked with Roger.
As for Nadal- His technique is okay to good depending on his form. And he can rarely hit a good second volley to cover the net if the ball comes back. I’ve seen him volleying well but it happens so rarely that it’s pointless to include it as a part of his play patterns.
Federer is prettier but Rafa kicks his ass.
14 slams in the golden era >> Weak era dominated 17 slams.
23 >> 11
Deal with it as a new “pass time”.
Edberg may have been a great volleyer but his accomplishments on grass are substantially less than Rafa with two less final appearances.
Doesn’t matter. Those that actually know tennis know that both Nadal and Djokovic have massively overachieved on grass and Edberg will always better than both.
Sadfan’s belief construct defines those that actually know tennis as fedbot fanboys who once claimed to be too busy to post on tennis blogs but now have all the time in the world.
No federer overachieved on grass because of the dreaded Weak Era but could no longer beat Nadal in a slam on any surface after he turned just 22.
But facts and data must not be your “pass time”.
Maybe employment would be a good “pass time” for you.
Rafa, please get back to your ‘A’ game and injury free to prove that you are simply the best.
Lol not gonna happen.
Never say never.
Fedfan, wrong again. I bet you hardly watched Rafa’s matches. He covered the net so well that he could win it even if he needs a few volley to win the point.
Fed called himself an aggressive baseliner, you want to call him an all courter thats up to you.
Lol, no he doesn’t. But I guess in a parallel universe where only a handful number of net approaches makes one a superior volleyer, any rubbish goes.
Fed’s an all courter. It’s so obvious it’s almost a truism in tennis now. But like i said, no one can cut through the density of the VB school of thought or lack thereof.
Sadfan’s “pass time” is making false statements as if they are truisms with no data to support them.
11 << 23
0 – 6 on all surfaces in slams since Rafa turned 22.
God, it's KILLING him.
Go have a good cry like St. Roger did sadfan.
Fedfan, so you dont even believe your own idol?
I suggest you watch Rafa’s matches more to see for yourself, stop calling others dense. If not I shall alert the moderator to edit/moderate your post.
Moderator where are you? Be fair with your moderation, why tolerate one poster calling others dense repeatedly? Do something!
Crying is St. Roger’s and sadfan’s “pass time” as evidenced by the tear-stained posters of St. Roger over sadfan’s nest.
God, it’s KILLING him!!!
Its so strange that winning on slower grass is not being held in as high esteem as winning on fast grass. I mean the players cant choose which era they play in, it just happens that the grass courts since 2002/2003 were slower than before that, and players use different skill sets to win on different grass surfaces, quick or slow.
To me the mastery of movement on the surfaces, esp clay and grass, is the key to doing well on the said surfaces. If your movement is lousy on the surface, you cant go far in a tournament on it, dont even talk of winning it.
Had Rafa or Djoko being born a few years earlier and so had a chance to play during the S&V era, I dont think they couldnt pick up S&V as a skill to play on those quicker surfaces. The fact that they can improve their volleying, net approaches despite playing on slower surfaces tell us that they are keen to learn and improve and have the talent to acquire the skill.
Fed won his Wimbledon not on quick grass either, so I dont see why when Rafa and then Djoko won Wimbledon, many Fed fans lamented that the grass at Wimbledon was being slowed down, as if only Fed is/was allowed to win there, others are/were not worthy enough to win there.
If Edberg or Becker were to play at the slow grass of Wimbledon now, they might not win either, with their skillsets; but that didnt mean they were not worthy of their titles won on fast grass.
Rafa and Djokovic are as good or superior to St. Roger on slower grass.
Anyone that knows about tennis understands that Sampras S&V in his prime made him near unbeatable on grass and a superior grass court player compared to St. Roger.
All courter? More like an all season tire among the true greats of the game.
St. Roger relied on the likes of Blake, Roddick, Hewitt and an aging Agassi in the Top 10.
Thomas Johannson winning a slam was indicative of the beginning of the dreaded Weak Era. Anyone not blinded by the light from St. Roger’s royal behind understands this.
Yeah, on fast grass Sampras is better than Fed, no doubt about it. Fed beat Sampras when Sampras was done winning at Wimbledon. A 19 yo Alex Zverev beat Fed on grass at Halle, was Zverev a better player than Fed on grass?
I’m also not sure that on fast grass, Fed could beat Laver or Borg. Fed fans have to be happy that the grass at Wimbledon was slowed down from the quick 1990s fast grass, so much so that Fed could win on it playing primarily from the baseline and only moved forward when appropriate, certainly not charging the net the S&V players used to do in the bygone era. He won in 2003 S&V’ing but not by beating any great fast grass court player.
Rafa beating Fed in 2008 during Fed’s mid twenties when both were playing the baseline game put an end to Fed’s dominance there at Wimbledon; as Fed aopoached his thirties he lost to 2nd tier top tenners like Berdych and Tsonga and then in his thirties, he lost to peak Djoko, managed to win one in 2012 vs Djoko/Murray though, even when Fed revived his net charging game.
With the trend now for big serving and hard hitting, I think a new breed of taller players will take over on grass if they can master the movement on it. Perhaps a Stich or Krajeck type of players? Alex Zverev or Nick Kygrios or even Raonic? Or Cilic from the older batch but still young enough to win?
And 2008 was no anomaly as even a Rafa that just turned 20 made the final in 2006 taking St. Roger to four sets and taking him to five sets in 2007 final after just turning 21 – all in the peak of St. Roger’s career.
But cherry-picking is fedfan’s “pass time”, not reality and facts.
Except, Fedeer has proven credentials as a net player while Nadal-Djokovic don’t. Fed winning Wimbledon after the initial slowdown was more a coincidence than reflective of anything. He was losing across the board despite being widely regarded as the second coming of Sampras.
As for whether Roger would beat Pete in the 90s-there is literally no way of knowing. It is known that he’s an all-courter while Nadal/Djokovic are not. We know his record on the fast courts that remain today is excellent. And we know that his longevity is down to the sheer variety and options his game offers. We also know that unlike the others he isn’t afraid to attack the net and doesn’t shy away from risk-taking.In short, he has all the makings of an attacking player while Nadal and Djokovic don’t. But over and above that, it’s a hypothetical. What the VB thinks or doesn’t think in this regard is irrelevant when lacking a basis.
Excuse me, Fed is not a risk taker, Djoko is. Rafa isnt either. I mean during Fed’s heydays, how often he took risk? He wont hit the lines but hit within the lines with margin for safety. Djoko was the one who played paint the line tennis!
Fed as he’s older now has to take more risk and so he moves forward more often, knowing that he couldnt win staying at the baseline.
Rafa takes risk, calculated risk and when his back is against the wall. He’s not called the warrior or the fighter for nothing, playing the big points well, in fact the best in doing so among the top few guys,by taking more risk.
Anyone who knows about tennis knows that you only take an much risk that is necessary to win.
St. Roger never had to take any risk during the Weak Era.
St. Roger was only a risk taker when challenged by Rafa and Nole out of sheer desperation.
Hahahahaah WHAT?! I think VB is having a meltdown now. Fed is not a risk-taker?! Lol. Might as well call him a counter-puncher now. Move over Simon. Oh how the VB scramble. :p
Please read more carefully.
Reading comprehension is not sadfan’s “pass time”.
Anyone who knows about tennis knows that you only take an much risk that is necessary to win.
St. Roger never had to take any risk during the Weak Era.
St. Roger was only a risk taker when challenged by Rafa and Nole out of sheer desperation.
Yes, “alert the moderator.” I couldn’t care less about it. I’m not here to please the VB and pander to their falsehoods.
Fed’s said a number of times that he likes to play good all court/ attacking tennis so even assuming what you say is true, one obscure statement at some obscure point is hardly going to obfuscate the actual composition of his game.
Aggressive baseliners are guys like Stan or Safin or even Agassi. Federer plays nothing like them.
Also, grass has historically been a quick surface and the domain of fast court players. The game was never meant to be played in a way where only one style would succeed over and over across the board. Else why have a grass court at all?
Djokovic and Nadal are also not great movers on grass. Their footwork is barely comparable to Federer and that is why they slip as often as they do. It’s also why a guy like Nadal is so susceptible to an early loss.
It’s obvious why you are here.
No, St. Roger never said he liked to play good all court tennis. You just made it up.
No, Nadal was immaculate on grass for five straight years entered. Five finals, same as JMac and two more than Edberg,
Fast grass is not part of the conversation because St. Roger never won on it. Period.
Sampras has seven titles on fast grass and St, Roger has seven titles on your hated slow grass.
Such internal contradictions must be killing you fedfan.
But reality and tennis beyond St. Roger is not part of your “pass time”, is it.
You made me laugh Fedfan. Have you been watching Rafa on grass during his heydays? Rafa was so quick on grass that he moved like a snake on grass and you’re here telling us his movement cant compare to Fed’s? Mind you, Rafa matched Fed shot for shot during 2007/2008 Wimbledon, if not how could he beat Fed in 2008 when Fed was still in his prime?? Your bias really knows no bound! You truly idolize your Fed till no end!
Whatever you want to call Fed that’s your business, and I’m just quoting Fed’s own description of himself as a tennis player.
How could he beat Fed in 2008? Fed had his worst year since 2003 in 2008. Just like you line up a knee excuse everytime Dull loses, I can pretty much go out on a limb and say he lost a great deal of conditioning after he got sick. The final of 2008 was probably the worst he’s ever played on grass with nothing other than the serve working consistently for him. Yet even then, he played around 58 points at the net again, nearly twice as many as Nadal. Federer calls himself an attacking player. That’s his description of himself. Period.
Worst conditioning? Yeah right, not when he swept past all his opponents in straight sets to reach the final. Also in 2007, when his conditioning was supposed to be better, he almost got beaten by Rafa if not for a Rafa knee injury late in the fourth set. He had to win two TBs(yeah TBs alright, Fed loved TB; no?) for a 2-2 in sets vs Rafa.
Stop exagerating, Fed hit his FH and BH well in that 2008 final, moved well too and the rain delay gave him time to rest and regroup. When Fed lost, Fed fans came out with all sorts of excuses, and yet they accused the Rafa fans of such.
There’s no need to argue about whether Fed is an attacking player or not. Attacking can be from the baseline too. Berdych for example is an attacking player from the baseline. You seem to perceive players playing from the baseline as defensive players, no wonder you couldt accept Fed calling himself an aggressive baseliner!
Lol, what rubbish? Are you now going to come and tell me Federer never approaches the net? Really, is the collective IQ of the VB so low? Federer calls himself an attacking player. Those who play him say he’s the most attacking player on tour currently. There’s no question of my accepting or rejecting it.
As for Federer’s performance in 2008. Hardly. His BH was probably the worst it had been in years and Nadal was almost singularly attacking it in the final-something he couldn’t do in 2007. His FH on the run was again all over the place and he could barely defend his right corner on the baseline. But of course, in the VB parallel universe, only Dullboy is allowed to get sick or injured.
Nah, its your IQ being low, dont even understand what was being discussed!
His BH was his worst in years? Yeah right, not when he hit that BHDTL to save MP. See, when Fed lost, all these sick or injury excuses from his fans, no different from any other fan groups. His 2007 wasnt any better despite your claim that he hit his BH better, the difference was that Rafa was hard done by the scheduling and the rain delay. Rain delays always helped Fed at Wimbledon but in 2008, rain delay or not, no one or nothing could help Fed.
Fedfan, playing primarily from the baseline doesnt equate to not approaching the net! It means he played more from the baseline than at the net. Also, one can play attacking tennis from the baseline and at the net. Hope that helps your den__ brain.
Check your meds and get a job sadfan.
Sadfan’s “pass time” is living in a delusional “passed”.
“Fed had his worst year since 2003 in 2008.”
Exactly, after Rafa wasn’t 21 or under anymore.
End of the dreaded Weak Era.
Anyone that knows tennis considers that final to be the best match of all time and sadfan deludes himself that one of the two didn’t play very well.
Not as well as a very young Rafa that is.
fedfan’s “pass time” is delusion.
Sadfan must think that St. Roger was STILL recovering in 2009 when a well rested St. Roger lost to Rafa at the AO final after Rafa had played a 5-set SF on half the rest that St. Roger had.
Delusion is sadfan’s “pass time”.
Yes, “alert the moderator.” I couldn’t care less about it. I’m not here to please the VB and pander to their falsehoods.
Feddfan much prefers to pander to his own falsehoods. That’s one of his “pass times”.
Hilarious!
Rafa susceptible to early loss? Not during his heydays. Rafa hardly slipped or fell during his heydays. Rafa didnt have a great serve hence he had to work harder to win on grass that’s all and that didnt mean he’s suspectible to early loss. The facts and stats said so during his heydays.
Lol, yes he did. He played , what is it, two five setters to get to the final in 2007? I think barring 2008, I’ve seen him struggle in the first week every single year. And then of course, who can forget the litany of shady MTOs and making the server wait and the general stalling. Glad he’s starting to get called out more often now.
2007??
He’d just turned 21 FFS. And took the Weak Era GOAT to five sets!
Nah, every knowledgeable tennis fan understands Sampras was the Grass GOAT, Rafa the Clay GOAT, and Fed the Weak Era GOAT.
Cherry picking is sadfan’s “pass time”.
Please, do you know Rafa had to play for 7 consecutive days due to rain delay whilst Fed had a few days rest?
Without rest days in between, Rafa still could beat whoever across the net to reach the final and gave Fed a real scare, and Fed knew what would come the following year and said that he better won his title before Rafa won them all.
Mind you, 2007 was only Rafa’s fourth year playing at Wimbledon and he managed to reach the final. Where was Fed in his fourth year at Wimbledon? Or well that’s in 2002 where he was knocked out in R1, so much for susceptiblity in early round loss!
Come on, be fair with your comments, dont just pick and isolate a year to make your point without viewing it in full context. Rafa did win his first Wimbledon in his fifth attempt, same as Fed and he had to beat the five time champion to do so!
Well, Rafa didnt need going the distance in 2008 and 2011. Didnt Fed go the distance in R1 in 2010 even when grass was his forte?
Why his MTOs were shady? You seemed to conveniently forget that his opponent did take MTO too, wont you call them shady? As for stalling, the tv rule wasnt being enforced yet so its up to the players to complain and the umpires to act on them. Yeah its good that the rule is in place now and Rafa has also quicken his pace.
Was he playing five setters every day or something? And is it Federer’s problem he couldn’t get through his matches easier? The guy was barely playing a set or so a day. His practice sessions are more intense than that.
Fed by the earlier standards was a late bloomer but in those days, it was common for players to see success right from their teens. So Nadal doing well at 20 or 21 was hardly out of the ordinary. Borg, Becker, even Hewitt had already set precedents for early excellence.
And honestly, how does the guy beat a supposedly “peaking” Fed in 2008 and then loses to Djokovic in 2011 in four sets-a guy with an inferior record on grass? Please, who is the VB trying to take for a ride?
I’ve said it before and say it again-both Nadal and Djokovic are massive overachievers on grass.
St. Roger was a late bloomer at the start of the weak era and started crying in 2008 at the end of the weak era.
Anybody not deluded by the light shining out of st. Rogers behind understands this.
Delusion and fantasy with lack of data is sadfan’s “pass time”.
Hello, 2011 and 2008, thats a good three years difference. You want to compare Rafa on grass in 2008 vs 2011?
Was Djoko that inferior on grass? He reached the SF at Wimbledon in 2007, a 20 yo. He also reached the SF in 2010. Reaching the final and winning it in 2011 was a logical progression esp with the year that he had in 2011.
So you expect Rafa to beat a well rested Fed in the final in five sets when Rafa had to play everyday like in a Masters event? Its not like Rafa could skip practice each day before his matches. Perhaps he could if Fed was subjected to the same scheduling issues.
“You want to compare Rafa on grass in 2008 and 2011?” Uhm…YEAH? If Roger can be in the peak of his prime in 2008 and perfectly healthy, I’m sure a comparison of Nadal’s 08 with ’11 is more than valid.
Sadfan criticizes other posts and then uses the same logic.
Hypocrisy is sadfan’s “pass time”.
St. Roger was given preferred draws and preferred scheduling for years.
Anybody who knows anything about tennis beyond St. Roger clearly understands that.
But he wouldn’t understand ‘coz’ delusion is the “pass time” of the federazzi fanboy sadfan.
Nah, Rafa was healthy in 2011, just not as confident or as aggressive as his 2008; and he met his match or more than his match in the 2011 Djoko, just like Fed in 2008 met more than his match in Rafa.
Yup Rafa was the second best player on tour on all surfaces in 2011 reaching more finals that all but Djokovic.
Faderer faded after the Weak Era breaking down crying at AO award ceremony when the presenter had to tell roger to settle down for everyone to here.
Faderer could only add slams with Rafa out of the picture after that. Rafa stopped St. Faderer from adding to his totals six times on ALL slam surfaces.
Faderer in his prime age couldn’t beat him in a slam once Rafa was just 22.
But facts are not sadfan’s “pass time”. Nor is writing for that matter.
Hypocrisy however….
Epic moment at 1:40 below. Settle down St. Roger, settle down now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCjw0Unm8OY