It will be the 38th installment of arguably the greatest rivalry in tennis history when Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer meet again in the title match of the Shanghai Rolex Masters on Sunday afternoon.
Nadal is leading the head-to-head series 23-14, but Federer has narrowed the gap to the tune of four consecutive victories–including three in 2017. Prior to this stretch, the 36-year-old had never won more than two matches in a row against Nadal. On the heels of a 2015 Basel triumph, however, Federer got the job done earlier this year at the Australian Open (6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 3-6, 6-3 in the final), in Indian Wells (6-2, 6-3 in the fourth round), and in Miami (6-3, 6-4 in the final).
The hard-court surface once again favors Federer, but there is some good news for Nadal. Currently No. 1 in both the rankings and the 2017 race, the Spaniard has captured two Grand Slam titles (the French Open and U.S. Open) since his early-season struggles against Federer. Nadal is also without question the hottest player on tour right now, with a current 16-match winning streak that also includes a winner’s trophy from Beijing. This week’s top seed has maintained momentum with defeats of Jared Donaldson, Fabio Fognini, Grigor Dimitrov, and Marin Cilic, surrendering only one set to Dimitrov in the process.
“(I’m) very happy,” Nadal said after beating Cilic 7-5, 7-6(3) on Saturday. “Of course I played I think a very high level of tennis. (It) was a great match again. In my opinion, he played well, too; was a great, good quality of tennis this afternoon.”
“I was hitting unbelievable shots off the ground, and against other guys they would be winners,” Cilic commented. “Or just with serving, serving well, that would be either an ace or winner, and he makes you play another shot.”
Federer fired winners past his friendly foe with surprising consistency in Australia, Indian Wells, and Miami, but the tide may have turned. Whereas Nadal is positively on fire at the moment, Federer has not been at his absolute best. The 19-time Grand Slam champion coasted through a favorable Wimbledon draw but was plagued by a back problem during the hard-court summer in Montreal (lost to Alexander Zverev) and New York (lost to Juan Martin Del Potro). Federer is much healthier in Shanghai, where he has taken out Diego Schwartzman, Alexandr Dolgopolov, Richard Gasquet, and Del Potro–the latter via a 3-6, 6-3, 6-3 decision.
“It’s nice at this late stage of the career that we still have these matches going on,” the world No. 2 said of the rivalry with Nadal. “There is only going to be a few chances for either player, and sometimes it’s just who blinks at the wrong time.”
Based on current form, Federer is more likely to blink. The Swiss has always been forced to bring out his absolute best in order to prevail in this matchup–a matchup that he once trailed 23-10. Federer was able to do that earlier in 2017, but the tables have now turned. A relatively fast hard court will level the playing field, but it won’t be enough for the No. 2 seed to stop Nadal’s incredible winning streak.
Pick: Nadal in 3
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Rafa about his calendar before London: “About Basel & Paris… obviously I don’t know what’s going to happen”
Will skip both. WTF is not a bad tournament to play. You get a day’s rest b/w RR matches .
yes he will skip both…roger may play both
Rafa (in the ESP presser): “I’m not worried. I know I’ve played many matches recently & I’ve done a great effort”
Trenton Jocz @TrentonJocz 35m35 minutes ago
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Rafa’s presser is an indication. If he got outplayed that much while 100%, he’d be tweaked/defiant. This one he can let go of.
Federer on Sky on what’s helped him beat Nadal 5 straight times, smiles: ‘Not playing him on clay’.
Fed is getting more likable these days. He’s speaking the truth about not playing on clay against Rafa. It’s just like these days, it’s better for Rafa not playing Fed on HCs.
Fed saying he might skip Paris and Basel both or one. He is smart with his scheduling, Rafa not so much. Sigh
And some posters here are contemplating what if Fed plays Basel and Bercy and win both !! Wishful thinking. I think Fed will play Basel though.
where did he say this?
Pretty much no chance he skips Basel. Likely he skips Bercy. And keep in mind Rafa is so confident and healthy this year and is 31 instead of Fed’s insane age of 36. I will say Fed has historically been the tour’s best scheduler by far. Rafa should take a page out of Roger’s book and at least skip Basel, if not Bercy as well, depending on how serious the injury is.
Nadal:”Don’t want to talk about the knee because these things can be misinterpreted,especially in titles. Don’t want to say” #SHRolexMasters
Nadal:”I don’t know about Basel. I need to think about it. I cannot tell you now” #SHRolexMasters
Nadal:”It wasn’t just a precaution on my right knee, but after losing the final it’s not the right moment” #SHRolexMasters
Sanju, what’s your source?
Its his presser statement.
Anyway, here is my take on the final (although I couldn’t watch the last 2-3 games):
1. Congrats to Federer and his fans (Joe, Eugene, Kevin, Big Al and others). The guy served perfectly and implemented his strategy flawlessly. Nobody beats Roger Federer on fast indoor conditions when he is serving like that.
2. Rafa played well after losing serve in the first game. He was nervous and made the mistake of serving too much to Fed’s backhand. He just couldn’t put enough returns back in play and engage in rallies where he was not doing bad at all.
3. I totally disagree that Rafa was ‘defensive’. He was just less offensive than the other guy. Yes, Rafa can play more offensive and move to the net more often; however, these conditions are so fast and they were indoor making it ideal for Fed to implement his strategy.Fed even took Djoko down in Cincy without facing break point in 2012!
4. I don’t understand how one can deduce from THIS match that Nadal would have lost to Fed regardless of how well he played at IW or Miami or AO. Guys, are are going to be this naive? DO you remember WTF 2007, WTF 2011 (when fed won 6-3 6-0 and lost at AO 2012 in 4 sets a month later)? Yes, some patterns of play has changed but today was just proof that Roger is still superior in these conditions when he is playing his best.
5. Roger was asked how he turned the tables in the rivalry and his answer was candid:
I’ve not played him so much on clay – that’s helped me not lose there,’ he smiled after the win. ‘That’s definitely helpful to avoid the entire clay-court season.
He THEN mentions the racquet factor:
Other than that I think with the bigger racquet head size it allows me to come through the ball ‘easier, I’m not having to slice the ball so much as I ever have against him. ‘It also helps me on the serve to be honest. My serve has been very consistent ever since changing the racquet and getting used to it. ‘And then just playing from the baseline, trying to be offensive, trying to dictate play as much as possible and then obviously Shanghai is playing fast so using that to my advantage.
He then concludes:
‘But also maybe my head is screwed on a better way just because I haven’t lost so much of those clay-court matches like I have in the past.’
7. He KNOWS how the dynamic of these rivalries work. Fed always knew he was superior in these conditions but the momentum Rafa used to build against him on clay used to help Rafa and now that momentum is not there. Rafa is not getting confidence by winning matches against him so it is hard to play your best in tense moments on your less preferred surfaces.
Just to add to that, I saw some stats:
Rafa finished with 12 winners to 20 UE? Wow, this is a bad finish. He had much better stats in set 1 :O
VR..its very clear..he was just not into the match coz the knee..the minute there was pressure on right knee..errors were flowing from racquet..I am not bothered now about the loss knowing he himself is not bothered as he knew he was compromised..I am only hopeful his knee recuperates..
Sanju, I just hope the knee is not a big problem. I agree the knee would have compromised his play and drawn more errors. However, I still think Fed would have the upper hand in these quick, indoor conditions. Rafa could surely have made it closer though.
My gut feel is Rafa’s knee is overworked. Just look carefully , this is his right knee. Even when receiving serves, he puts a hand there on his knee, just to feel comfortable.
Look at his celebrations against Dimi and Cilic. Those were muted. He knew he and knee have overworked. He will take rest.
I MENTIONED his muted celebrations in his last two matches ! I just thought he was feeling fatigued. But yeah, I think you are right. He has overworked the knee and it is the right knee.
He could have done well from the baseline but his ROS wouldn’t have gotten much help. Not sure how much of a mental hurdle it will be, but I think Rafa can still beat fed on the slow-medium outdoor hard courts. On clay, of course Rafa will beat him every single time if he can play like he did this year.
VR, I happen not to agree. I think if Rafa could serve and return well the way he did in his previous matches, coupled with his confidence in his game, he may not lose to Fed. Fed served this well because Rafa wasn’t up to par in his ROS today. Rafa was also not as quick in his footwork today. I would think the match may go the distance and Rafa has good chances of winning.
How come Fed couldn’t do that yesterday against Delpo, and had to go three sets, and Delpo wasn’t even that great in his returns! Delpo made Fed run quite a bit; a Rafa playing at a better level would do the same.
Big difference between Delpo’s serve in 1st set (and rest of his baseline play, frankly) and Rafa’s serve. If Juan Martin had kept that level he had in the 1st set he would have been in the final. He just couldn’t maintain it, and Roger upped his game.
Rafa NadalVerified account @RafaelNadal 4m4 minutes ago
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Great tour in China, with the title in Beijing and the final in Shanghai! This isn’t over, let’s keep going!
Federer played an excellent match to win the title. Nadal fans just continue to give excuses about his knee problems. Federer has found a solution to beat Nadal on hard court. Period.
I think so. Fed’s backhand is not a liability any more. . That’s a big change.
the backhand was not the biggest factor, once again.
Maybe not the biggest, VR, but it’s definitely a factor. Roger hit several BH winners, both DTL and CC, and it’s just not the liability against Rafa that it was for so many years. It factors into that confidence boost that you mentioned above, even if it’s not as important as the serve.
That is the biggest imo. His backhand isn’t a weakness anymore therefore Rafa doesn’t have anything to pick on therefore advantage Fed.
Rafa has to be careful and not play at all if he is not 100%. Do hell with the ranking and come back for AO.
This is story is nice.
http://www.storyarts.org/library/aesops/stories/boy.html
I am gutted…………..not so much that Rafa lost but that he lost to Fed again.
But guess what? Rafa will figure this out, just like he figured out the Djokovic conundrum.
Stay healthy and grab YE#1 Rafa!
It also makes me sad that Rafa is losing so much to Fed and the next chance he might get will again be on a surface that suits Fed way more (WTF).He will never get to play Fed again on clay it looks like so it will be tough for Rafa to be confident in their next matches. He can still do it on the slow-medium pace hard courts though.
Well, at least now we know the real reason Fed is skipping the clay season. Smart Fed. Unfortunately, the way the Tour is structured around hard courts, Fed can get away with it.
Interestingly, Fed’s confession on his scheduling decisions indicates that the H2H stat is very important to him.
Rafa must not be drawn into Fed’s mind games. Rafa must not structure his schedule around Fed like Fed is structuring his around Rafa. He must walk his own path. He will definitely lose more than he wins against Fed henceforth because Fed will only play Rafa where the surface suits him: low bouncing hard courts, lighting fast and even better if they are indoors.
Rafa must keep plugging away in pursuit of his goals, which I hope are the following:
– adding to his Slam count;
– staying healthy; and
– staying #1
The rest will come out in the wash!
Vamos Rafa!
Um I’m pretty sure Fed didn’t just skip the clay season to avoid Nadal. Yes he would’ve been the underdog against Nadal in clay and there’s a good chance he wouldn’t have this 5 straight wins against Nadal. But the main reason is that Federer’s historically worst part of the season is clay. And his best is grass. He wanted Wimby. He got it. He might not have if he played the clay season for a pretty obvious reason. He’s 36 years old and clay is the most physically demanding surface of them all. Roger said that to be humble he is a classy guy like Rafa. What he said also probably has a lot of truth to it since Rafa is the greatest clay courter.
Roger said the truth. Had he played clay he would not have had the 4 straight wins this year is a fact. I dont think he deliberately did it, he wanted to win Wimby. He just answered the question the reporter asked him. He would have played clay had he not won AO/IW/Miami and he said that himself.
Had he taken risky of playing clay, he sure would not have won Wimby. He is smart and Rafa needs to leran from him to schedule. Roger said in as many words he is surprised Rafa played Beijing after he won USO.
However Benny he also said on Skysports that his mind is not screwed up now after losing to Rafa on clay and that gives him the momentum and robs Rafa of the momentum. Ofcourse the racquet head size and consistency on serve and BH due to it is a HUGE factor. I am very interested to see when and how Rafa solves this puzzle on HC vs Roger.
Yes!! Exactly what you said Sanju. And I totally agree he’s got the mental edge largely due to the clay court season and even said it himself. But also like you said, he didn’t just deliberately skip a whole portion of the season for H2H reasons. He would’ve had a significantly lesser chance at Wimbledon title.
Largely due to skipping the clay court season *
“H2H stat is very important to him.” Then why would he not just skip every clay tournament since several years ago?! RITB why, even after Fed demolishes Rafa (and yes that’s what that was), you have to talk shit about Fed and act like he’s afraid of Nadal? He’s not scheduling his whole year around Rafa he cares about winning big titles and guess what? He’s won ONE French open and SEVENTEEN other slams. Why would he play the slam/part of the season that is most physically demanding and his least historically successful? Yeah his lack of past success has a lot to do with Rafa but he isn’t doing it for head to head purposes. He and Nadal don’t actually take the time to analyze their records against players and actually care because they have millions of dollars and are good friends who respect each other as well. By the way Fed hasn’t just played him on low bouncing hard courts this year. He absolutely whooped him in Indian Wells and Miami. And he would on grass right now too. So basically if Nadal skips Basel, am I allowed to say Rafa skipped so he wouldn’t lose his sixth straight match to Fed? Because that’s exactly what would happen. Just stop talking shit about Fed please. You overanalyzed his comment so you could use it against him, proclaiming he is using mind games and that he’s skipping the clay season solely for H2H purposes. Just show some respect to Roger if it won’t just kill you to do so.
You don’t need to waste your time explaining why a 36 year old approaching retirement, who by the laws of science needs to skip tournaments in order to have success, would skip the part of the season that is the most physically demanding and is also his worst surface. If Fed was “afraid” of continuously losing to Rafa on clay, then why did continuously battle through all those semifinals of clay tournaments knowing he was probably going to lose to Rafa in the final? Everyone and their grandmother knows that Fed couldn’t get a sniff at Rafa on clay, so why would he need to try and hide it? This just makes no sense to me. If Rafa skips the grass swing when he’s 36, no one would claim that he was just “afraid” of losing to people on grass… They would think, “Rafa is 36 and can’t play everything, so of course he’s going to skip his least effective surface!” 15 of the Fedal matches were played during the 2-month clay court swing- it’s only fair that they play more matches from post-US Open period where Fed has the advantage… Can’t have your cake and eat it, too!
Yes thank you for that Kevin. In fact if I can recall I’m pretty sure some Rafans on here were discussing shortly after Wimbledon on how it might be in Rafa’s best interest to skip the grass season as he gets older. And that would be totally understandable and nobody would or should assume that Rafa would do that for H2H purposes with rivals. And I’m also not saying Rafa didn’t have to with Roger’s decision to skip clay. Rafa is the reason Roger doesn’t win the French Open more or more clay tournaments in general so in a sense he was avoiding Rafa because he was avoiding clay (cuz clay basically IS Rafa LOL). But he’s 36 and it’s his worst surface by far like we’ve already established. Anyways thanks for that Kev. 👍🏼🙂
No problem, Benny. 🙂 That’s what I’m here for, to do what I can to keep the bias at acceptable levels! 🙂
Again Kevin. You are one of those people who’s got the wisdom of words if I’m allowed to say so. And not only in ‘defending’ Fed, I often agree with your input which favours Nadal or any other player. I wished Fedal fans were less biased (not completely, that would be impossible).
Well done Benny. Kevin still got it lol..
Yes RITB is talking nonsense,
Stanley you are correct 😅
Very profound @Stanley. Not.
@Benny G, I was ready to take your comments seriously until you sought @Stanley’s validation.
Out.
Lololol I was just saying he was correct. “Sought his validation?” The fuck r u talking about 😂😂😂
@Benny G, suggest you watch Fed’s Sky interview. He said he did not play the clay season because he did not want to lose to Rafa. Now, this may not jive with your narrative of Fed, but the reality is what Fed himself says. I prefer reality to myth.
As you said, Fed demolished Rafa, and I agree with that take. So why are you upset? You should be celebrating, no? Are you upset because I do not share your opinion on why Fed skipped the clay season? Please………
Okay let me lay out my opinion to you: Fed skipped the clay season because he did not want to dampen his confidence by getting walloped by Rafa. Fed himself said so. So my opinion coincides with Fed’s reason, making it fact.
I have no respect for someone who chickens out of a shellacking. Fed should play the clay season and take his beating like a man. That, is my opinion.
Yes but Roger said in an interview after today’s match that he will never overcome the H2H when asked about it. My main problem isn’t even about avoiding Rafa it’s that you said he cares about “H2H stats” and that he plays mind games with Nadal lol. That I completely disagree with. And I highly doubt that avoiding Rafa was his sole reason to skip the clay season. He said in plenty other interviews that he needed to prepare for Wimbledon as much as he could and playing the physically demanding clay court season would tire him out and not allow him to prepare as much for the grass swing. He’s 36 it’s justifiable that he doesn’t want to go play on his worst surface. Rafa should do the same on grass as he approaches Roger’s age. Just give Fed a break is all I’m asking. I didn’t rip Nadal for things he’s said that I don’t agree with. For example, I found it classless when he kept repeating and made it very clear in Rogers Cup presser that he played like shit against Shapovalov who had hit 49 winners and that it was his worst loss of the year because of Shapovalov’s ranking. And I watched that match. Rafa did not play well by his lofty standards. But Shapovalov earned that thing and wasn’t given much credit by Rafa after.
I do give Fed credit when he deserves it but I will not be bullied into giving him credit when it is not deserved. And please do not give me that, “I do not criticize Rafa therefore you should do likewise for Fed”. BS! Criticize Rafa all you want, if it is merited you will not get any come back from me. If it is not, well……..
My point is this: Fed took a calculated decision to skip the clay season because he did not want to dampen his momentum by getting beaten by Rafa. This is not me saying this, it’s Fed himself. Was this smart on Fed’s part? Of course it was, the results show this. It also is cowardly in my book, and un-becoming of someone who wants to be seen as the greatest player of all time.
Or maybe he just wants to be known as the GOATNIC (Greatest Of All Time Not Including Clay)?
“Then why would he not skip every clay tournament……………”
Because he is slow, who knows? Maybe it just dawned on him only last year that maybe he cannot beat Rafa on clay. Some people are slow like that………
This is what I mean. You’re just an asshole for saying that. I can’t even imagine saying something so rude like that about Nadal and only reason I brought up the Shapovalov thing was to show u something small I could’ve bitched or roasted Rafa about like u do to Fed and cuz u basically annoyed me so much with the disrespect you give Fed in pretty much anything you write about him. And I am obviously very happy about Fed’s win. Just don’t get why you have to put a damper on it just cuz ur salty that your guy has gone 0 for 4 in matches this year with his rival.
@Benny G, calm down. You are taking this fan thing way too seriously. Ad hominem attacks blunt whatever point you are trying to make and make it difficult to engage.
Happy to engage when you have calmed down.
RITB, please provide a quote where Federer says that he skipped the clay season to avoid being beaten by Rafa.
“I am the GOAT and I don’t care about clay because it is too difficult”
Oh, okay then……
Miss me on that parade…….
RITB, i used to respect your passion for tennis & R. Nadal and i have expressed that admiration so many times.
You are being silly with some of your comments and that’s not cool.
If u were joking, i will understand but this… this is not good, you are going too low.
Please stop it ok, your guy lost, it’s painful and i understand but don’t turn that disappointment in the wrong direction.
R. Nadal will bounce back and i know he will win trophies next year.
@Stanley, I don’t care for your respect, please keep it.
Thanks.
You called Fed slow. That’s some bull my friend. That’s my central point here. But yeah we can just agree to disagree. I just think you are unnecessarily disrespectful to Fed too frequently and that annoys me.
@Joe Smith, please review all of Fed’s comments pertaining to the 2017 clay season. You will find your answer. It is not my job to provide you with any quotes or convince you of anything. Do your own research. I have based my opinion on what Fed himself has said, stuff I have researched and read.
Sorry, RITB, I am sure Fed never said anything like that, and I’m challenging you to provide a link, or else admit that you were exaggerating.
Fed skipped the season to preserve his body for Wimby, not because he was afraid of losing to Rafa. That is consistent, of course, with recognizing that his chances of winning RG were a lot lower than winning wimby.
That is the difference between you and me. I am a Rafan but I do not take my fandom that personally that I would hurl gratuitous insults at people when they disrespect Rafa. But you, “my friend” are comfortable insulting me gratuitously because, in your opinion, I insulted poor snowflake Fed!
If I said something unnecessarily disrespectful about Fed like that he is “slow like that” or is a “snowflake” I would get hated on or roasted by many and deservedly so.
@Joe Smith, please can you provide a link for your assertion? Thanks.
Unnecessarily disrespectful to Rafa*
I have seen worse hurled at Rafa but it has never occurred to me to “defend” him by gratuitously insulting the “offenders”. But that’s just me…………
@RITB:
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/05/roger-federer-says-he-will-skip-french-open/66053/
See how easy that is? You should try it some time.
Btw, the article explicitly states that Roger did not take Rafa, or any other player in particular, into account; it was a decision to preserve his body, understandable in a man approaching 36.
Well no use in discussing how we approach that I’m kind of stuff. The thing about your initial argument from a while ago is that he says the reason he has won five in a row is because he didn’t face Nadal on clay and that might have helped him mentally with this match he just played but he didn’t actually decide in advance to skip the clay season to gain a mental edge it just happens to be the case that it helped him in respects to his current win streak vs Rafa staying intact. But come on now he skipped because of his age. Like I said he would’ve skipped other times in the past if he actually just wanted to avoid Rafa.
@Joe Smith
And I’m Desdemona! Not. I really must learn to take every press release at its word, not over-analyse……….
Good luck to you and Fed for the rest of the season!
@RITB, no need to thank me if you don’t respect my recognition that you love tennis & Rafa.
Just to be clear, i didn’t say i respect you, i don’t, i never will, i might be joking here.
Your frustration & disappointment is too obvious and you definitely need time to heal so i will let you heal.
Please when u heal don’t 4get that R. Federer is the best and when you belittle or denigrate his victories if you are not joking, it’s not right ok.
Please calm down, all will be fine tomorrow, watch a nice movie, sleep a little, just do something to relax ok.
@Benny G
I am sure we can agree on this: when I read Fed’s statements/actions, I glean a different take from yours.
Hmmmmm………I wonder why?
@Stanley,
Yawn!! Now go play with yourself…………
@RITB,
Very funny but i was being nice.
You are truly sadist and i feel sorry 4 U.
Why can’t you recognize a good advice when you read one?
Take time to heal, stop spewing trash.
Please don’t act this way, you will ruin the little respect i have 4 u when it comes to tennis & Rafito.
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/tennis/a/37484812/roger-federer-cheeky-tactic-to-reverse-rafael-nadal-domination/
@Joe Smith
Semantics aside, it’s pretty much obvious why Fed would skip the whole clay season. I fully understand why some Fedfans would find this uncomfortable because it suggests Fed skipped the clay season to avoid playing Rafa. Again, interpretation matters. You may not see it that way but I certainly do, conclusion drawn from Fed’s own words.
“Clearly avoiding him – not playing him on clay has helped,” said Federer after the Shanghai final. “I’m able to stay on the hard courts or on faster courts against him, I have been playing very well when I have faced off against him.”
Once again, this does not mean he chose to skip the clay season because of Nadal. It is his assessment of why he currently has the mental edge / win streak. And the obvious reason you speak of him skipping the clay season is that he is 36 and had to schedule for the best shot at the Wimbledon title. Again, he would’ve skipped the entirety of last year’s clay season too if he was just wanting to avoid Rafa. Notice he has played less and less on clay as the years have gone by. He’s getting older and scheduling wisely to give himself less exertion on a physically toiling surface that he has had the least historical success on. I don’t know why you assume that because he said his current mental edge is helped by his lack of playing the clay season that it means he skipped the clay season because of Rafa. Like I said, he’s assessing what has largely helped keep his win streak intact (skipping the clay season), not stating that he actually skipped that part of the season to keep that streak intact.
I mean, I don’t even know what it takes to be honest,’ he told Sky Sports after the win. ‘I just know the World Tour Finals is a must and probably Paris too and probably Basel so that all depends on how Rafa plays. ‘It’s a wild thought, that’s why I’m not even thinking about it to be quite honest at this point. Can Federer overthrow Nadal at the top of the rankings? (Picture: Reuters) ‘I was thinking about it going into the Montreal finals and hopefully Cincinnati and the US Open but I mean it just all didn’t work out the way I was hoping – so no problem there. ‘I’ll just try to be healthy now, go back to the drawing board when I go back to Switzerland tomorrow with my team and we’ll decide what I’m going to play – Basel, Paris – one of those tournaments or both or none – before I go to London because that’s my priority right now. ‘I want to really win the World Tour Finals and then we’ll take it from there next week.
Why would Fed show his cards just now. He would keep rafa guessing . He wants Rafa to overplay. Rafa would also not reveal anything. He will skip Bsel for sure.
The language has gotten out of control here. There is NO excuse for anyone to use the word “f—k” in any context. Also, calling someone an “asshole” is not only a personal attack and I appropriate and a violation of Ricky’s site rules, but it is not a reasonable response refuting anyone else’s argument!
The one thing I will say about this whole brouhaha about Fed skipping the clay court season and RG, is that some of his fans ran off at the mouth to the effect that he was doing Rafa a favor since he had a good chance of beating him should he have decided to play. Yet now we are seeing the same Fed fans saying that there was no way he was going to beat Rafa on clay and it would have meant risking his body and chances at winning Wimbledon.
Guess what! You can’t have it both ways. I remember the arguments here as Fed fans arrogantly talked up his chances of beating Rafa at RG! Yet now the tube has changed and some have taken umbrage at the suggestion that Fed skipped the clay season to avoid losing to Rafa.
I am inclined to believe that Fed’s primarily goal was to rest his body and have the best chance to win Wimbledon. But his recent comments can be open to interpretation. Maybe the simple truth is that avoiding any losses to Rafa on clay was a side benefit of not playing the entire clay season.
People are entitled to their opinion and should not have to be attacked with the kind of profane and nasty language that I have read in some posts. Defend Fed without the inappropriate language!
I meant to say that now the TUNE has changed! *
@NNY,
Thank you for standing up for decency.
I am sadenned by the fact I was part of the discussion that elicited this type of unhealthy language, for that I apologies to all site users.
in my experience, people (usually men) use profanity as a tool to intimidate other people into silence, I.e. bullying, which as you point out is against site rules and in any case, does not advance the substance of the topic under discussion, quite the opposite.
Personally, I will continue to engage @Benny G on substance and call him out if and when he uses gratuitous profanity. I know we can disagree agreeably. I will not be intimidated, bullied or silenced.
Sorry guys I’m kinda young I don’t use that as intimidation I just use that generally sorry bout that honestly.
Just to be clear, I am not one of those fans. I did not think Roger was doing Rafa a favor by skipping it or that he would’ve beaten Nadal on clay. It would be dumb to say that even if one thought it (which I didn’t).
What is wrong in expecting Fed may defeat Nadal on clay had they met this year when Rafans can expect Nadal to defeat Fed on indoor HCs. Isn’t that happenned with Novak as well when in 2011 he defeated Nadal in IW/Miami but everyone expected clay is a different ball game but he went on to defeat Nadal on clay as well and that was his first win over Nadal on clay.
When someone is playing well its obvious that their fans will expect him to win everything he plays. Didn’t you expect Nadal to win in Shanghai because he was playing well and he won USO/ Beijing. Don’t go too much in what a player says in their presser, they respect each other a lot and they will always use kind words for each other.
Didn’t Rafa say if you think I’m better than Roger that means you don’t know anything about tennis and if you take literally his words that means all Rafans don’t know anything about tennis.
Wise words 4rm @bestplayer.
You are a smart guy.
Thanks Stanley. I can’t imagine had Fed lost yesterday then what would have been the reactions here.
‘I’m very excited to have had the year that I’ve had – everything that comes from here is a bonus. ‘World No. 1 I think it’s a long shot – I don’t think it’s going to happen but if I play like this, who knows, maybe I’ll get close to it.’
Stanley of course im hopeful, Rafas still number 1, and of course he will bounce back, he is still contesting for titles, and as long as he does that he has chances ….
Honestly, I think it would be in both Fed and Rafa’s best interests to pull the plug on their seasons. I know they won’t, as they are stubborn. Maybe Rafa will if his knee is bad enough. I guess Rafa plays his best when he’s winning matches, but Fed at 36 plays his best when he has had a lot of rest and then can work his way into form throughout a tournament, like he did in Shanghai. Benny was right- Fed really did work his way into form, peaking at the perfect time. He played by far his cleanest match of the tournament in the final. I am concerned for Rafa’s knee… I don’t believe for a second that the knee had anything at all to do with Fed winning today. Maybe it could have been a little more competitive, but outcome would have been the same. Fed is just superior to Rafa on faster courts. I probably should have seen that, but I just thought that Rafa’s confidence and good form would be enough to get him over the line, even on the type of court that he has historically done poorly on in terms of titles won. The one outcome that I said definitely would not happen, happened indeed- a rout for loss of under 8 games… I know it’s frustrating for you great Rafans to have your guy suffering a losing streak to someone he never lost more than 2 matches in a row to. But just keep in mind that it’s only fair for their head to head to include more matches on the courts where Fed dominates. They’ve played what, like 15 matches on clay, where Rafa can rarely be beaten? Let Fed get his for a little while. Rafa certainly had his enough! 🙂 In all seriousness, though, commiserations to the Rafans. Your guy has had an amazing season, though, and is going to end the season #1! You have nothing to be sad about, really. The one thing that we should be a bit concerned about right now is that knee… Rafa’s body is just so fragile- we never know when it could go wrong. He looked totally fine at the end of his semifinal match, so I’m not sure what the deal is with the knee. Hopefully it’s not serious… Hey, Fedal, take the rest of the damn season off if you both want AO 2018!
Kevin, could you break your script into paragraphs? It very hard on the eyes and difficult to read. 😉
Sorry Nadline! I get really into my comments and forget about paragraphs and spacing. 😛
Agree with Nadline!….Sorry Kev!..I love reading your post!..but,if u could change it into paragraphs not only i will love it…but,i’m sure i will drool over it shamelessly from now on!!Hehehe….
The only reason Federer didn’t play the clay season is because he didn’t want to lose to Rafa. He said so himself today on Sky.
No, he said that skipping the clay season was the reason he won 4 straight this season. Big difference.
Right, Kevin. What Roger gave was a likely explanation for why he had been able to beat Rafa 5 straight times (not having played him on clay this year); not a statement of what his intention was prior to the clay court season.
Kevin great post, i dont feel sad though anyway, im delighted with the year Rafas having ….
Rafa is very very bad with his scheduling. He has enrolled for 2 500 tourneys after USO and Laver Cup where he played more than 10 matches in less than a month.
Got get some rest Rafa and reach London early on for preparation. Early preparation is far more important. Fed has been in Shanghai since Thursday, a week before his first match . Its so important for Rafa to focus on WTF now.
The problem with Rafa is that he lacks confidence in his game if he’s not playing and winning matches. I think he plays so much on HCs because he wants to get used to playing his improved game on the HCs. HCs not his fave surface so he needs more match practice and match play.
He’s not like Fed or Djoko, they don’t need that much match play to feel good on the HCs, HCs being their fave surface. Rafa’s counterpuncher mentality works against him in quicker courts, when he prefers to counter attack than goes on first strike attack even though he has the tools to do so.
But he is winning everything now on HC. He beat Delpo, big servers Isner, Anderson and Cilic, Dimitrov twice and other tough players. He won easily as well, mostly playing back to back matches.
So, let me take you back to 2013, IW was Rafa’s first tournament. He played and won straightaway because he was well-rested. He has to follow this strategy now.
He has to be efficent like Fed. Fed won 1000 points from Shanghai, Rafa won 1100 points by playing double the matches. He has to make smart choices. I think he hwas hampered by knee problem plus Fed servered really well and early break helped him a lot.
I will still back Rafa to be more competetive in WTF if he faces Fed there.
Yes, Rafa is not wise in his scheduling. But, Rafa is not Fed on the HCs, if he didn’t play at Beijing and came straight to Shanghai, he might not even reach the final here. He needed match wins to feel confident and confidence is everything to Rafa. Remember he almost lost to Pouille in his first match at Beijing? If not for playing and winning at Beijing, he might be losing to Dimi here in Shanghai.
Rafa had only won B2B week HC events once in his career, ie in 2013 at Montreal/Cincy; compare that to Fed and Djoko, they’re so used to doing that throughout their career.
I think other than having a more sensible schedule, Rafa also has to make some changes to his mindset when playing on HCs, ie reminds himself to dictate more often than to counterpunch even if his opponents may be more offensive players than he is. He could move up to the court, move to the net, serves and returns well, so why not combine all these and plays more attacking than counterpunching tennis? He was playing like that at Beijing, and that’s a joy to watch, but it seems he couldn’t sustain that level in B2B HC events; perhaps after a long season (he played 75 matches already!).
I think against Cilic like players, he tends to counterpunch, when I think he could’ve done better by moving to the net more often – Cilic moved to the net 19 times, winning 12; Rafa only managed 5 times at the net but won 4 of those! I feel his mindset is such that he’s concerned about returning his opponents big serves; whilst players like Fed, they’re not so concern about that as Fed is confident of holding his own serve, and so he’s more relax and patiently waits for his chances, esp in TBs.
Kind of agree here. He needs more matches under his belt on HC. He was struggling in USO in initial rounds but was a different player. Played even better in Beijing and Shanghai.
But still, I think, it would be better off for him to just rest his knee. WTF is one tournament where you can still enter SF even if you lose. So, it gives Rafa the luxuru to just enter there without too many tournaments in last few weeks. I dont think WTF court will suit Fed as much as Shanghai. Its low bounce but not that quick, in facts its relatively slow than IW, Miami, Cincy, Montreal.
I agree, when Rafa is playing well, he doesn’t need to play at Paris Masters or Basel to prepare for WTF. In 2010, he won Tokyo, lost in R3 at Shanghai, played nothing else before WTF and still reached the final at WTF, beating Murray in the SF and then lost to Fed in three sets in the final.
If Rafa skips both Basel and Paris, he will have four weeks rest, and I think that’s good enough for his knee to heal. And yes, the London O2 arena isn’t as fast a surface as Shanghai, so Rafa will have better chances against Fed.
It’s a shame Rafa couldn’t play his best tennis at this Shanghai final, I was expecting a more competitive match, but each time this year, after the AO, its being disappointing, mainly from Rafa.
Most probably Rafa is skipping Basel. I wont be surprised if Fed skips Basel and plays Bercy. Fed is a real msart guy and he can ditch his home tourney for Bercy. He will get 2 weeks rest and a week’s rest before WTF.
Can Fed get away by playing no 500 tourney after USO ?
Fed had said during laver cup that Basel will take priority over Bercy
So, Fed can (priortizing from top to bottom in terms of likelihood)
1. Play Basel and skip Bercy
2. Skip both Basel and Bercy.
3. Play both
Either case suits Rafa. He is going to be year end number 1.
3.
Rafa’s problem was not confidence today. I don’t know if that’s what you’re trying to say but just to be clear, that wasn’t the issue. It was the guy across the net. #MentalBlockIsGone #Better Racquet=BetterBackhand=BetterRoger
Please Benny, read again and tries to follow the conversation!
Ah I see you were saying that’s why he played so much after the US Open. Still my hashtags weren’t wrong 😄