Arguably the greatest rivalry in tennis history is picking up steam in a major way. And it is doing so 13 years after it first began–at this same Miami Open.
Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal will be facing each other for the 37th time in their careers and for the third time already this season when they battle for the Miami title on Sunday afternoon. Federer and Nadal went 15 months without a single meeting before colliding at both the Australian Open and the Indian Wells Masters earlier this year. The Swiss survived a 6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 3-6, 6-3 thriller to triumph Down Under before destroying Nadal 6-2, 6-3 in an all-too-early fourth-round showdown in the California desert.
Nadal still leads the overall head-to-head series 23-13, but it is now tied up 9-9 on hard courts. The two all-time greats have squared off three times in Miami, where each of their first two encounters took place. Nadal cruised 6-3, 6-3 back in 2004, Federer prevailed 2-6, 6-7(4), 7-6(5), 6-3, 6-1 in the 2005 final, and Nadal got the job done 6-3, 6-2 in 2011.
This one almost did not come to fruition. Federer has been the dominant player of 2017 with an 18-1 record and titles in Melbourne and Indian Wells, but it was far from one-way traffic for him in the quarterfinals and semis. After saving two match points to outlast Tomas Berdych 6-2, 3-6, 7-6(6), the 35-year-old returned one day later and battled past Nick Kyrgios 7-6(9), 6-7(9), 7-6(5) in three hours and 10 minutes. Federer preceded those results with more routine defeats of Frances Tiafoe, Juan Martin Del Potro, and Roberto Bautista Agut.
“He’s playing so good,” Nadal commented. “That’s all, no? He’s playing great. When (a) top player like him is playing that well, then it’s always a big challenge for every player. That’s all.”
Nadal endured only one real scare on the way to his fifth Miami final. The sixth-ranked Spaniard got bageled in the first set of his third-round date with Philipp Kohlschreiber, but he recovered to win 0-6, 6-2, 6-3. Nadal also boasts straight-set victories over Dudi Sela, Nicolas Mahut, Jack Sock, and Fabio Fognini.
The 14-time major champion is still in search of his first Miami title, currently saddle with an 0-4 record in finals. This one should be more competitive than what transpired in Indian Wells, but Federer is battle-hardened thanks to Berdych and Kyrgios and a full day off will restored whatever energy was sapped in those thrillers. Given the way he is hitting his backhand, which had been his waterloo against Nadal in the past, Federer should make it three in a row at his rival’s expense.
Pick: Federer in 2
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That’s it!!Nice chatting with u guys!!Nny,Sanju,Lucky,Hawks,VR…see yer in MC!!!
Big big congrats to Roger and his loyal fans here especially Joe Smith,Eugene and other’s whom I can’t remember atm..sorry..Rog deserve to win today..He’s much better than Rafa…
Thanks Mira. Best regards to you guys too. Rafa needs to change many things. I think he realizes that more than ever.
Your welcome Eugene…and thank u back for your nice words about Rafa Eugene…and I agree with u that Rafa needs/should change MANY things..it’s very interesting to follow his progress in the coming months…Hey Eugene,please don’t stop posting here just because Rog will not play on clay okay?I think he will play 1 tourney before FO..Btwgreat to have u here Eugene!
Too bad! Fed isn’t even playing all that well and Rafa just withers in the humidity, loses his way after losing set one.
A very disappointing performance despite a good start. Rafa should just forget about going to Miami in future, he’s not going to win if he struggles with the humidity, His HC game now (basically a clay court game) is not going to win him HC title(s); just concentrates on clay!
RBA and Berdy did better against Fed.
ThIs is just so disappointing.
I am not assuming that Rafa can magically turn it around on clay. He is lacking confidence and belief and not winning titles.
There is not much that is good to take out of this match for Rafa.
This is truly embarrassing now. Rafa has not even won a set on slow hard courts.
I have some really annoying Fed fans (fawns) on my facebook and they’ll be go crazy . Not looking forward to it lol
Anyway, Rafa was very disappointing. I thought he was a bit unlucky as well in the first set and would raise his game in the second esp after saving that BP at 3-3.
Forget about slow movement or anything, his regular forehands were so damn disappointing. He not only hit short but hit some of them miles out!!
Well that’s quite an easy match for Fed! Congrats to him.
that match was AWFUL
Guys, indeed the match was at best of average quality. I feel like much of its quality depended on Rafa. I might be subjective. But I have the impression that Roger’s game these days is very flexible. He raises his game when needed, depending on opponent’s level (Kyrgios) but then drops his level with players like RBA, Berdych (and almost got punished). Today he felt confident and played just ‘enough’ to win the title. Nadal didn’t challenge him too much.
How many guys have won AO, IW and Miami?
At 35 and 8 mo????
You cannot be serious!
#GOAT2.0
Djoker done it a lot
Last two years actually. Fed too. But not many more.
I hope Federer sits out the clay season.I am not quite sure Rafa can beat this Fed on clay either:O
Be assured Rafa cannot beat this Fed on clay if both of them continue their same level of play. Its more psychological at that level and self belief is the key. But on clay chances of bad day for Fed are more and Nadal can take advantage of it. Nadal believes he can beat anybody other than Nole and Fed at this moment. He is kind of second best. If Fed skips clay season and Nole continues his slump then Rafa can regain confidence and once again can win FO at RG.
Rafa made Fedovers happy. 🙁
Yes, but still want Rafa back. It’s something psychological, not physical. His game depends on his mental state, which is the independent variable in Rafa’s case. Basically it dictates his level of play.
Until Rafa’s forehand comes back, he is not going to win against the other 3 (out of the big 4) when they are in form. Not even against Wawa. When I look at his current movement which is not so good but used to be the best and largely responsible for his success on grass, I have an uneasy feeling he is never going to be as good as he was. Hope the clay season proves me wrong. Rafa has mentioned that RG is his goal. So maybe all the HC stuff is just to prepare for the big prize. I hope so anyway.
no way. he was trying his level best to win a HC title. I don’t know if his forehand will ever be good enough. If he gets it to a high enough level, he can win RG but otherwise he will lose to others.
No fed in the clay season prior to RG but Djoko has already started his training. Murray will be back in the mix and there are scary players like Krygios!
VR, I’m not so worried about clay. I think you people worry too much! Rafa playing subpar tennis still could reach three HC finals, what more when it’s on clay? On clay Rafa can glide into positions, and his topspin will work better on clay than on the HCs.
I do think his FH is so bad now because of his slower movement, slower to get to balls and hence mistiming his FH. I think other than on clay, he needs to play closer to baseline or steps inside the court more often when playing on non clay surfaces, to cut down on the running and so cut down on the misfiring of his FH.
He has improved his serve by now through this Miami tournament, and also during AO; his BH has also improved a bit; his ROS and FH are still inconsistent, sometimes working and sometimes not so. It’s seems that he just can’t bring all the good things together during a match – when his serve is good, his FH is bad. When his serving is ok, and FH doing ok, his ROS may be bad and his BH too. He just can’t fire on all cylinders within a match to get him to win a title. His game is in a mess, at least on the HCs. Perhaps clay will bring out the best in him, as he has more time to do everything? Maybe he’s like a fish returning to water?
Nny!Are u okay?
MA,
No!
hehehe!..me too Nny!!Let’s cry together!!!
MA,
If I had not had gone through a health crisis, then maybe I would be more upset. But I have perspective. It was a tennis match. Nobody died. So in that sense it’s not that big a deal.
I have to focus on myself. I can’t help Rafa. I certainly don’t have the answers for him. This was such a dreadful performance that has just don’t know what to think. Rafa’s game has degraded and Fed was playing at a much higher level. I never thought that I would see the day when Fed had Rafa’s number.
Rafa did not play like someone who wanted to win this title. He fell apart after the first set. That’s how he used to lose to Novak. Fed had the tougher matches in his draw and had to fight to get to the final. Rafa benefited from a draw that opened up with lesser opponents who did not challenge him. But Fed exposed Rafa’s weaknesses in the final.
I don’t know what to expect from Rafa in the clay season. But he is nothing t showing that competitive spirit and desire these days. I sensed trouble when he lost so easily to Querrey in the Acapulco final. That set off alarm bells. What has happened since has only reinforced those concerns.
Rafa has not won titles this year. That is what gives confidence and belief. Fed and his team made changes in the last two years. It’s paid off. Rafa and his team did nothing for two years. Whatever they are doing now us not getting it done. I think that Rafa has regressed from the AO.
I don’t know what to think after this latest loss.
NNY, I’m positive about clay. I think Rafa played subpar tennis in this match partly due to the humidity. Fed was also sweating a lot, but Rafa as we know used to sweat a lot and humidity made things worse for him. Maybe, that’s the cause of him looking resigned after losing the first set, for he might be thinking he’s not going to last long in such humid conditions (that 2011 final came to mind when Rafa had nothing left in the third set TB and lost).
Anyway, I feel Rafa didn’t have the belief that he would win this match and I think his mind would turn quickly to the clay season once this match was over. Rafa will always take the positive out of this (unlike us, me included), and he will concentrate on winning on clay. If he has a successful clay season, he will then think of winning on other surfaces, maybe not grass, but the USO series and then the indoor HC season.
If his game improves during the clay season, then I feel he may feel confident and have a good second HC season on quicker HCs, it’s on the quicker HCs that Rafa plays with more aggression.
Lucky,
As always I respect and value your thoughts and perspective. I do remember that 2011 Miami final so well! I remember the commentators talking about an exhausted Rafa on the sidelines at the end of that match. It’s always physical with Novak, but that match really took it out of Rafa. That was Rafa’s annus horribilus, when he couldn’t beat Novak.
I think the humid conditions really got to Rafa in this final. He went off court after the first set and changed his entire outfit.
I do agree that Rafa will take positives out of this latest loss. But it was the way he seemed to just fall apart with his forehand and ROS. I hope that I am wrong about his game regressing after the AO.
I hope that you are right about Rafa getting it together on clay. You are usually honest about your concerns regarding Rafa and the state of his game. I would like nothing more than to see Rafa have success on clay and start playing his best.
As I said, perspective is important. This was not the end of the world. I sensed that Rafa would most likely not win this match. I just remember a time when Rafa hated to lose. This time he seemed resigned to it.
Anyway, tennis moves on. I will hope for better things ahead.
Thanks for your take on what lies ahead.
?
Nny….Sorry,a little bit late to reply…how r u since we last chat?Hope u feel much better…You have a right attitude Nny…this is just a tennis..no use to pondered or torture ourselves because of it…and I agree with u regarding Rafa…I’m not sure how he will fare on clay because to me this is not about a surface,it’s something that still in his head..but,to be fair to him,let’s see how he’s handle MC…sure,no Roger there but his old nemesis Novak is going to be there…oh,well…
Mira, I doubt that on clay this season, Fed and/or Djoko are in Rafa’s head. After the MC and Barcelona titles, I doubt he’s ‘afraid’ to face Djoko on clay. I would think his loss to Djoko and Murray was due more to his own game, when he was affected by his wrist issue. I mean he wasn’t afraid of Murray on clay right?
I really feel that after reaching three finals on HCs, Rafa should be confident that he’ll do better on clay, for HC isnt his forte but clay court is.
I also don’t think Fed will live in Rafa’s head now, I mean it’s not like Rafa hadn’t lost to Fed on HCs/grass. He was losing to Fed on grass and indoor HCs in 2006; lost to Fed on clay, grass and indoor HCs in 2007, but he learned to overcomeFed. I would even think that if Rafa does well and wins FO, he will beat Fed in the USO series should they meet. It’s not like Rafa didn’t have his chances at the AO or even in this Miami final, it’s just that he hadn’t the confidence when it mattered, i.e. converting BPs, when in the past he was so good at doing. A few titles in the pocket and he will start believing in himself, and it’s on clay that he will win his titles.
I think Rafa will beat Djoko on clay should they meet, for I doubt Djoko is that formidable again, at least not so soon.
Oh,u really think so Lucky?To think back,I don’t know why rafa have a confidence and self belief issue atm…he’s almost win AO and really did well on HC this year….I’m very very curious what exactly rafa’s problem…Hope he can win 1 or 2 titles on clay to restore back his self belief…but Lucky,i’m not so sure he will beat Novak ifthey’re meet again…not when he’s so low on confidence at the mo IMO…but I really really hope that you’re right Lucky!I really am!
MA,
So Novak is going to be at MC! I wasn’t sure about that. Oh well!
If I had not gone through what I did, then I might be more upset about Rafa’s loss. But it is a tennis match in the end. I thought Rafa would play better, but it was not meant to be. I knew that Fed was playing with great confidence after winning titles. That is what Rafa needs. That is what gives you real confidence and belief.
I hope that Rafa can defend his title at MC. I hope he doesn’t have to face Novak until the final.
Is this only Fed’s second time winning AO, IW and Miami? Djoko done it in 2011, 2015 and 2016, so Djoko still better than Fed this part of the season.
Next question is: who else has done it at 35? And will Djokovic repeat this performance?
Why do you think he’s low in confidence, after reaching three finals?
I think we expect too much from Rafa; Fed’s on fire. I predicted Fed would lose this final based on the assumption that he would be a bit more tired than Rafa, and Rafa would be determined to beat Fed to get his Miami title for the first time.
Go to the Atp website and read the Shannessy’s brain game article about this match. He too felt that Rafa’s FH was the determining factor for Rafa at least in winning or losing this match, if we’re just looking from Rafa’s perspective.
It’s Fed who’s the more determined one in the final, Rafa looked deflated after losing the first set. Rafa had his chances at BPs but did not convert and that’s the problem. It’s unlike IW where Rafa wasn’t having many chances.
I do think if Rafa was a bit more aggressive and stepped inside the court more often, taking the ball a bit earlier and took time away from Fed, he might even win the match. This was what I was talking about prior to the match; alas,Rafa wasn’t feeling comfortable stepping inside the court and so he was playing from well behind the baseline and so hitting some short balls. Notice that once he hit a short ball to the centre of Fed’s end of the court, Rafa looked lost, as Fed was there getting the ball and Rafa had no idea where Fed was going to hit the ball and Rafa thus was hesitant in moving his legs to either right or left and so Fed would have an easy winner. If Rafa is going to continue playing like this on the HCs or on grass, he’s not going to win.
On clay I feel it’s a bit different, as he’s so comfortable on clay and knows exactly where he wants to hit the ball and he could glide so well on clay that he could buy a bit of time. I feel Djoko won’t be ready so soon to be formidable on clay, and it’s a good time for Rafa to beat him so that it’ll help Rafa regain his confidence.
I mean regain his confidence against Djoko.
Lucky…On top of your comments u asked me why I feel rafa is low on confidence but at the bottom of your comment..u said “it’s a good time for rafa to beat him so it’ll help rafa regain his confidence”…
So,that mean’s you’re agree with me that his confidence is not so high atm?And to answer your question…yeah,that’s what I’m wondering..why he still low in confidence..he did really well on HC this year but as we can see from his performance in the 2nd sets…rafa of old would have brushed aside his loss in the 1st set and just playing like nothing happened at all..when his form dropped significantly in the 2nd sets,IMO at that time he’s already lost his battle with himself..that’s why he made a string of UE’s..sure Roger contributed as well but the thing is if Rafa full of confidence he will not give up easily..he will keep on fighting but last nite it shows clearly in his face that he don’t belief in himself to beat Roger…
When we see Sascha or Nick’s playing,we can see the confidence that oozed from their physics and their shots but can u tell me it’s the same with rafa on the 2nd sets last nite?
Nah, the ‘regain confidence’ at the bottom paragraph was meant to refer to when facing Djoko; see my subsequent post on that.
Lucky..hahaha..when I see your 1st post,i immediately replied but after I posted my comment then just then I realized that your 2nd post just entered without my notice…that’s okay,we’ll just see how he’s gonna fare on clay after this…
Mira, Rafa is not low in confidence but that doesn’t mean he’s high in confidence either! It’s just that he hasn’t won anything despite reaching finals so that may have affected him when he’s playing in a final again, more tensed than low in confidence.
You can’t compare Rafa to Zverev or Kyrgios, they are the challengers, the underdogs and so they play like there’s nothing to lose. Rafa doesn’t behave that way, he plays like not to lose and so he’ll be more pressurized.
Remember 2009 to 2010, when Rafa wasn’t confident after coming back from injury? He had not won any title during that stretch of ten months, until MC2010. During that stretch, he did reach final at Shanghai (lost to Davy), reached Doha final (lost again to Davy) but he kept working and believing and finally he won at MC and thereafter started his incredible run of winnning three slams in a row and on different surfaces.
I think I did mention earlier that maybe Rafa didn’t believe he could beat this Fed on the HC, and so after losing the first set, he was a bit deflated, but he still fought hard but with less intensity I feel.
I really think Rafa will do well on clay this year, even beating Djoko on clay. They may not meet in finals but in SF or QF, so it won’t be too tense for Rafa. On clay, Rafa is a different animal.
Okay Lucky…it’s not long before we find out another version of Rafa..hope you are right Lucky…
Not a great match. Nadal at about the level he’s been playing, maybe a little better. His serve was good and that kept him close. Roger not sharp, ROS was much worse than it’s been lately, and he looked more than a little tired in the heat. He also had a bit of luck with net cords. But still, he got it done. Incredible achievement at his age. Sorry for all the Rafa fans, especially Mira. See you on the dirt!
Hey Joe!Thank u for your commies up there…err..I’ve already gave a congrats to u up there as well..hope u read it Joe!Enjoy it okay?U deserve it as much as Roger to celebrate Joe…I’m happy for u!Yeah…see u on the dirt…although I’m not so sure of the outcome either…rafa seems still lacking in confidence and I don’t think it will change much even on his beloved dirt Joe…
You were right. Roger was not sharp in the first set and also couldn’t get in top gear entire match but still managed to win because of confidence level he is having. On the other hand Rafa do not believe he can win big title matches on the surface other than clay. Rafa could not take benefit of situation.
Just too good from Federer. Chapeau to TMF. Simply inadequate from Rafa. He needs to go back to the drawing board and clean up his act for the clay season.
Congratulations to Federer!
Hope he plays better than this when Nole shows up on the other side of the net.
As for Rafa, well, there’s always clay to turn back too. That’s his real forte and he will come good there for sure. The MC trophy is waiting!
Not the best Fedal of the three we seen this year.
But personally i can just admire what Fed is doing.
Imagine if someone have tell you three months ago Fed will be 20-1 after Miami whith AO, IW and Miami titles. Just incredible. Even if he doesn’t play any game on clay, he will have a shot to be number 1 at the end of the year. Crazy !
This Fed was really beatable for Rafa. He really messed it up. The blame is on the forehand. I thought he was serving much better and for the first time second serves were consistently aggressive.
I am feeling so bad 🙁 6-3 6-4 is such a routine win. 2 more games won than IW. God that forehand was so VULGAR. There were a couple of unlucky net cords but the overall play was dismal!
VR, had Rafa stepped in to take his BH DTL early during a BP, he could have won that game and broke Fed’s serve in set one and the end result might be different.
The problem is not only the FH, but Rafa’s court position during the match. He hardly stepped inside the court unless being forced to!
which BP is this? I missed the BP’s he had in the first game.
I know, he is just not confident enough to step in when needed. When he tried to do it, the vulgar forehand was there.
This is very disappointing indeed.
Noticed that too…
RT Steve Tignor
Federer already had a smile on his face BEFORE match point. Everything was working in 63 64 win over Rafa. https://t.co/YX2cEccvF0
It’s pretty disappointing to be honest, for reaching three finals on HCs but fails to win any. Rafa is just not good enough on the HCs now, with all these HC players around, as he refuses to step inside the court to play more aggressive tennis. This match is winnable by him, but he’s just too tentative when having BP chances.
Again, just concentrates on clay, and forget about grass and HCs, if you insist on playing clay court game on the HCs.
Agree Lucky!I wish u send him a message..tell him what we thought about his game…I wonder what his reaction would be??
No but how do you continue to step in when you are hitting your forehand miles out. Knowing how precise your forehand has been in your career, it must be baffling for him. Anyway, it’s been years now and he must be used to it. He should still try to step in more.
How was Rafa looking in the trophy ceremony? My stream ended.
He was classy, joking and smiling as always. Great to hear him speaking Spanish to his fans towards the end of his speach.
VR, sorry, I mean the FH DTL when he had BP in the fifth game in set one. Rafa was hitting from so far behind the baseline and that’s the problem. He hit it into the net from so far back; it’s not like he didn’t have time to move forward. In that game his FH was still great, having just hit a FHDTL winner two points before this BP.
To me that’s the problem with Rafa, he could have stepped into the court even when running from left to right or vice versa, but chose to stay far back to do his running. It’s really clay court style tennis.
Well on to the clay court. I hopr Rafa wins RG. That’s enough to keep me happy for the whole year.
Last thing he needs is for Djoko to come roaring back into form and take that title away from him too
Roger announces to BG on court that he won’t play any clay lead ups to French Open.
Wise decision.
The guy can play himself into condition better than anyone. Still a threat in Paris IMO.
what??? no masters 1000 on clay???
Smart move although I thought he would at least maybe play in Monte Carlo.
Matt Zemek @mzemek
Perhaps the sweetest fact of today for Federer:
He was the player who had logged more miles heading in, which is not historically typical.
And I agree with VR that this Fed is so beatable! Fed was quite ordinary by his standard, but Rafa still failed to take advantage.
It’s such a pity, as Rafa was serving so well (surprisingly!), was winning the rallies when he mixed things up, but once he lost the first set, he looked so deflated, almost resigned, and his level dropped. I think in his mind he didn’t have the belief that he could win, what a shame when some of his fans here think that he could if he played with a bit more aggression.
Fedal matches now almost always anti-climatic, after that AO final. It’s quite a disappointing match, it would still be had Rafa won it, full of errors and BP chances, not of high quality. Fed is ordinary but Rafa is below par!
Sometimes players raise their level when they need to so we don’t know that.
Of he’s beatable. He lost a little over a month ago…
*Of course
#AppearanceFeesAreEverywhere
luckystar, do you really think Fed would have played same level not matter what? Should Rafa had player better, Roger would have adjusted. Exactly as he did against RBA. He played just enough to win that match. Although dropped his level too much and could have been punished. And then raised his level considerable to face Kyrgios. He is very flexible and adjustable. He could have played much better today if he faced a stronger Rafa.
A stronger Rafa would be more competitive than this, also don’t forget Fed started off facing BPs in his first service game, how’s that due to Rafa’s level of play?