A blockbuster quarterfinal between Rafael Nadal and Marin Cilic is on tap for Tuesday at the Australian Open. A more surprising one pits Grigor Dimitrov against Kyle Edmund. Ricky Dimon of The Grandstand and Joey Hanf of Cliff Drysdale Tennis preview the two matchups and make their picks.
(1) Rafael Nadal vs. (6) Marin Cilic
Ricky: Cilic vs. Pablo Carreno Busta on Sunday was better than anyone could have expected. PCB threw everything he had at Cilic and the Croat came up with the necessary answers. On a relatively fast surface, he is once again looking like a slam title contender (just as he did at the 2014 U.S. Open and at Wimbledon in 2017). In my Wimbledon pre-tournament picks, I had Gilles Muller beating Nadal in the fourth round. When the time came, I changed it because of how good Nadal looked through three rounds. I’m not getting swindled into the same mistake again. The world No. 1 is playing well and has dropped only one set through four matches in Melbourne, but Cilic is playing too big for him right now on a hard court. After all, even Diego Schwartzman bullied Nadal around for a brief time on Sunday. Cilic in 4: 6-7(5), 6-4, 6-4, 7-6(6).
Joey: The first real test for Nadal in this tournament will come on Tuesday, with Cilic the first player he has faced who has actual weapons that can hurt him. But Cilic, as is often the case, has not looked particularly reliable this fortnight. He has given up leads and struggled to close out matches that realistically should have been routine. And whenever you play Nadal, you have to be willing to go for it on the big points. I think Cilic will keep sets close because of Nadal’s insane return position but ultimately come up short when it matters most. The Spaniard’s serve has looked very good thus far, and the forehand doesn’t seem to be having any problems. Nadal would be smart to use a fair bit of slice and force the Croatian to generate his own pace. This lopsided head-to-head will only grow further apart. Nadal 6-4, 6-7(4), 7-5, 6-2.
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(3) Grigor Dimitrov vs. Kyle Edmund
Ricky: Dimitrov was awesome against Nick Kyrgios, four days after playing down to his competition in a five-set escape against Mackenzie McDonald. Once again heavily favored against an unseeded opponent, the world No. 3 will learn from his McDonald mistake and make sure to treat this match with the respect it deserves. After upsetting Kevin Anderson in the first round, Edmund has done what he failed to do at last year’s U.S. Open: capitalize on a favorable draw. But it hasn’t been easy. He needed five sets to outlast Nikoloz Basilashvili and took a medical timeout for a right shoulder issue during a four-set win over Andreas Seppi on Sunday. This is where the Brit’s Australian summer finally comes to an end. Dimitrov in 4: 6-3, 5-7, 6-4, 6-2.
Joey: I’m surprised by this quarterfinal; really thought we were getting another Kyrgios-Seppi clash. Edmund’s journey has been wild; he was literally running on fumes against Basilashivili. He began going for virtually every ball in that match, and he executed the same strategy against Seppi. Unfortunately for him, Dimitrov is one of the most athletic defenders in the world. Dimitrov had to play an extremely high level to beat Kyrgios, and I think that momentum should carry him through this one. While he wasn’t playing great early in the tournament, his confidence is growing. I am interested to see when this match is scheduled; Dimitrov heavily prefers night conditions where the ball doesn’t fly as much. Edmund has been playing the best tennis of his career, but it seems pretty clear his legs not quite there anymore. The Bulgarian will expose that. Dimitrov 6-4, 3-6, 7-5, 6-2.
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My two favorites Nadal and Murray, are cursed at this GS, yuck everything about the AO sucks, the heat, the scheduling, thank god it will be over soon 🙁
^ Amen!
not a fan of Sandgren?!?
Actually, I’ve become something of a Chung (King) fan. Nothing against Tennys (who???) Sandgren though.
you have nothing against Tennys????
I am a fan of Sandgren and his story. Seems like a really chill dude. As for the tweets, I’m not sure what to think. I think he is being over scrutinized about some of the stuff at least. He can believe in what he wants and as a tennis fan, I am really just focusing on his tennis and admiring how hard he has had to work to get here through playing challengers and futures to getting to where he is now. He is very humble as well in his reactions after big wins and his interviews. So I gotta say I’m a fan of Tennys.
suit yourself
Thanks NNY 😉
http://www.straitstimes.com/sport/tennis/retirement-so-painful-for-an-aching-rafa-nadal
Alison, the Pink Curse struck again! All the Pinkies are gone by now, and there were quite a few outstanding players amongst them. Nike’s designers sure haven’t pleased the tennis deities, lol!
Maybe, we should support the guys with the goofy glasses and the funny names now!
Lol! He doesn’t have a funny name.
#Pinkcurse
#Peptobismol
Alison don’t worry, Rafa lost in the finals of AO last year but ended 2017 as #1, he is still #1 in terms of ranking and he will bounce OK.
Everything will be fine, he might even win 2 GS this year just be hopeful.
Rafa won the USO last year in pink so I don’t think it’s bad luck. He ended 2013 as #1 and he didn’t play the AO.
Ha, Nadline,that was a much more becoming shade of pink, almost purplish – and he didn’t even wear it in the final!
But honestly, I’m not supersticious. I just totally disliked this year’s AO attire, the grey was kind of sickly, too. And I didn’t just dislike Rafa’s outfit. Nick’s and Dimi’s wasn’t any better. What was Nike thinking? Just my personal opinion…
And Nadline, Rafa had bad luck at the 2010 AO, too, and went on to have the best season of his career! Of course, he’s 8 years older now, so I don’t expect miracles. But as long as the injury isn’t too serious the season can still turn out ok. Rafa has learned to deal with this kind of mishaps quite well. I wish, though, that Moya had an easier start, now that he is the sole coach.
As long as Rafa doesn’t get injured during the season, ends the season well, he’ll have his chances to win the AO again. Rafa needs to play aggressive tennis from the get go regardless of who is his opponent, he has to conserve his energy and not grinding under the AO extreme weather conditions.
His inexplicable collapses in set twos is a concern; it always happened during set two, twice when he was up a break or more, he gave back the advantage, that to me had led to his downfall at the AO this year. Just imagine he winning set two in his R4 match, he would have won in straight sets thus saving much time and energy on court and saving his body. The same thing happened in the QF match, winning set two would probably lead him to win in straight sets too. I’m not sure he would injure his thigh or pulled his muscle when he would finish the match in straight sets.
Rafa had a good chance of the title here at the AO should he not being dragged into a grinding war by his opponent(s); however, he probably was ill prepared for this AO, hence decided to play more defensively and hence he had to run a lot (I said it earlier, playing against Cilic, he had to run a lot, as Cilic would control with his serve and big ground strokes).
I hope his injury is not major, and with proper rest and work out, he’ll get back on track soon. Rafa is one guy who needs to practice and practice to feel confident, that may be the work attitude Toni inculcate into him from young.
littlefoot AT 7:53 PM,
C.Moya is not Rafa’s sole coach. Francis Roig will continue to accompany Rafa during the tournaments. True, Moya will replace U.Toni, CM is coaching Rafa when the latter is in Mallorca. Besides being Rafa’s coach, Moya is the Technical Director of Rafa’s academy, it means that he is (almost) always there.
littlefoot AT 7:48 PM,
I’m afraid you are under the influence of Fedfans’ comments (on different websites) who have constantly reminded of Rafa’s pink shirt he wore during the 2009 FO. They have been so overwhelmingly happy about Rafa’s loss (for almost 10 years!) that they remind of it in whatever context.
I’ll support Berdych! The poor guy, I do feel this may be the time for him to win a slam, with Djoko and Rafa (his two nemesis) gone. Fed is standing in his way but if Berdych wants to win a slam, then he has to man up, at least mentally, to deal with Fed.
Berdych is playing very well whilst Fed isn’t tested so far playing guys not ranked inside top 30. Berdych has the weapons to beat Fed if Fed is not playing well.
I’m hoping for a Berdych AO champion here, the others remaining can wait.
T. Berdych can win the French Open not AO, Roger Federer will increase his GS titles.
Stanley, I’m feeling this friendliness coming from you more in 2018… Thank you.
👍😉.
Littlefoot lol but im a Brit so Kyle for me first, then a guy with goofy glasses 😉
I like his goofy glasses lol, it fits him.
That’s fine Alison, especially since only Kyle’s skin is pink!
Thankyou Stanley, but im fine ….
U R welcome Ali, but how can you say you are fine.
Are you not disappointed a little?
Just saw the 4th set and conclusion of the match. First thing is, congratulations to Cilic on an awesome match! I thought Rafa came out firing on all cylinders, serving better than I’ve seen in quite awhile and spraying winners all over the show. I thought if he had been able to keep up that level he could have won the tournament.
But Cilic absorbed that first set, and upped his game in the 2nd. Rafa couldn’t maintain his 1st set level, and by the 3rd set Cilic was dictating play. He probably should have won the TB but for an easy miss on a point that he had basically won. And he continued in that vein during the 4th set. Anyway, all the talk about Rafa’s injury shouldn’t obscure the fact that Cilic played a great match and deserved the win.
I didn’t think Rafa should have played this tournament before in started because of his knee. Although it doesn’t seem that his knee is the current issue, it would be surprising if it didn’t contribute in some way to his leg injury.
Along with Novak, Murray, and Stan, what Rafa’s injury makes clear is just how much Federer is an exception to the rule that male tennis players inevitably decline around the age of 30. Nadal had a great season last year, of course, but that was after suffering through a few injury-plagued seasons in his late 20’s. And it will become harder to grind through B05 matches going forward, with the likely exception (maybe for the next 2 years if he is healthy) of RG. In my opinion, he should definitely sit out now until the clay season starts.
Joe, so far we don’t know, how serious the injury really is. I tend to agree that the enforced break because of his knee contributed to this indirectly, because the preparation was insufficient. But if it is only an injured muscle – that can always happen. In this case it wasn’t wrong to play. He made it into the quarters after all and almost reached the semis. Rafa had knee troubles since his early 20s. Therefore it’s hardly anything which has to do with his decline. Of course it becomes more difficult each year to come back again. And believe it or not – Fed isn’t immune to age decline. No one is. He just played wisely far fewer tournaments than in earlier years. He manages his very body very well. I expect him to do the same this year. Thus he can manage his Achilles heel which is his back.
I agree with much of this. The point I would emphasize is that it’s much harder to come back after 30 from injury, and much easier to re-injure and develop new injuries. Fed took a full six months off in 2016, and even then his back flared up repeatedly in the latter half of 2017. For him, Montreal was the tournament he should have skipped.
With Nadal’s age and style of play, I think scheduling a heavily reduced season, built around the clay court and latter HC season, makes sense. As I said, I think he should sit out until the CC sesaon begins. After RG, I would seriously consider a lengthy break until Cinci (skipping grass entirely), and then try to play through WTF. He would then be relatively fresh for AO in 2019.
Joe, right now I feel Rafa should avoid the AO like the plague, lol! While he won it once in a great final, it has really developed into his unlucky slam. And even after he won it in 2009 his troubles started soon after and he lost early at the FO because of sore knees.
I truly wonder, though, if it is all bad luck or if some of these injuries developed because the downtime between the WTF and the AO is too short for many players – especially for those who routinely have been active until the very end of the season, which was followed up for some by the Davis Cup final. The injury theme has been one of the most discussed subjects at this year’s AO because so many were injured already, which is strange since it is the first big tournament of the season. It has often been criticized that the down time is too short and that the AO should start later or the season should end earlier. The AO have been moved around quite a bit, but there has never been an ideal date. In the 70s it was fairly common for many players simply not to attend. That’s why some big stars like Borg have never won them.
Rafa has always had difficulties to finish the season in one piece, but since he always qualified for the WTF he tried to be present if possible. Last year wasn’t different, and I think it was a bad idea not to wrap up the season after the Paris Indoors, when he had secured the No1 position, and start proper recuperation a few weeks earlier.
The more I think it through the more I feel that his AO misfortunes aren’t solely caused by bad luck. It’s striking how well he did last year after his lengthy break which gave him lots of time for adequate preparations and let to a great season overall.
But since he felt healthy I can’t fault him for giving it a shot, even if winning it was unlikely. The mistake was not wrap up last season earlier.
Rafa’s early demise has been predicted ever since he hit the tour, and yet he’s still here, having had one of the most successful careers of all time. Therefore he can’t have done all that many things wrong after all. But if he wants to continue successfully for a few more years he needs to cut back more, as Fed did last year. Skipping Wimby might indeed be a good idea, especially since the clay court season tends to be always long and taxing for him. His best shots a more slams are probably the FO and the USO this late in his career because the surface suits him best.
Rafa is injury prone so as he gets older, he getting injured is not something alarming. But, do not underestimate Rafa’s will to compete and to win, that’s enough motivation for him to come back and wins some more titles.
He has to cut back on his schedule, there’s no need for him to play 18 or 19 events when he’s now allowed to pick and choose what to play. To me, it’s always his scheduling issues that’s getting him into trouble, I mean playing at Rome last year was unnecessary, perhaps on hindsight, skipping Rome might save him some energy and so he could play at Queens and got better prepared for Wimbledon.
I doubt Rafa wants to skip any slam, so I think he won’t skip Wimbledon. He should then cut down on other events, like Miami, Rome, Acapulco, Brisbane, just stick to 14 or 15 events (if he qualifies for WTF).
littlefoot says AT 11:03 PM: “…I think it was a bad idea not to wrap up the season after the Paris Indoors, when he had secured the No1 position, and start proper recuperation a few weeks earlier.”
===
Rafa began a specific treatment on his (right) knee immediately after his withdrawal from Paris and his doctor (A.Ruiz Cotorro) accompanied him at the WTF in London. He played at the WTF only one match. I don’t think that playing at the WTF had a big influence on his healing process.
https://www.elespanol.com/deportes/tenis/20171104/259474342_0.html
Nah, not this season. If his injury is minor, he should play at IW/Miami to get match play before the clay season begins. He’s still fit at 31/32 so he’s not going to skip Wimbledon. He wasn’t playing badly at Wimbledon last year, he lost 15-13 in the fifth set to a red hot player Muller in the fourth round. In fact he was playing better than the past few years on grass, it’s just that he didn’t play warm up events on grass so was ill prepared.
Perhaps he should skip Acapulco this year, and if he plays well at MC, Barcelona and Madrid, then skips Rome. He should play a warm up event on grass before Wimbledon; thereafter stop playing the Laver Cup, and if he plays the Asian swing, then skips Basel and Paris or plays Paris if he’s still fit. He would then play only 15 to 16 events, not a lot for a 32 year old.
If Rafa is to play till he’s 35 or 36, then going forward, he should cut down the number of events played year after year, the HCs of Acapulco and Miami, and Asian swing or indoor events, and plays one few clay Masters; may also skip grass totally if his knee can’t cope anymore.
Joe, Fed also have his injury woes, you conveniently forget his back injury during 2008, 2009, 2013 and 2017.
Fed is smart in his scheduling, don’t you see? He’s playing fewer and fewer tournaments each season. Do you remember Fed at 27/28, ie 2008/2009 when he was already having physical issues? Fed was having back problem during TMC Shanghai in 2008, called for MTO, got his back treated and then lost to Murray in the RR stage. He was shanking all over the place during 2009, got frustrated, hit and broke his racket on court during his match vs Djoko in Miami. He skipped Dubai that year because of back issue. He was fortunate to take advantage of Rafa’s injury in 2009 to get his channel slams and the no.1 ranking while Djoko and Murray weren’t ready to challenge him yet.
It’s not like Fed was fit and healthy all along; in 2010, he injured his thigh during the grass season, lost to Berdych at Wimbledon giving injury as an excuse and got bombarded by the media (and of course by non Fed fans!).
To me Djoko is more fit and healthy than Fed despite his breathing issues earlier on in his career. Djoko hasn’t any major or even minor injury issues, maybe just a twitch here or there – ankle and wrist, but nothing major. He only has this elbow issue when he turned 29; Djoko’s movements around the court is as fluid as Fed’s and even quicker. He’s as quick as ever coming back from half year absence; so if his elbow is fully healed, I have no doubt he can play till his 35 or 36 and playing well even when not dominating, as long as he plans his schedule well.
luckystar says AT 2:46 AM: “Fed is smart in his scheduling, don’t you see? He’s playing fewer and fewer tournaments each season.”
===
Fed hasn’t played fewer and fewer tournaments each season. After 2003, he has played fewer tournaments only in 2016 (6-month injury layoff ) & 2017 (skipped the clay season due to his age):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUSJSdOX0AAhZpp.jpg
Speaking of his ‘smart’ scheduling, this has been just part of pro-Fed campaign.
Augusta, I value your input and updates on Rafa’s situation. But coud we please stop talking about pro-Fed campaigns whenever anybody mentions something positive about Fed and something critical concerning Rafa? I don’t care if there are pro-Fed campaigns or not. Fact is that Fed has his own physical problems and he seems to handle them well. Otherwise he woudn’t be where he is right now in his career. For example it was a very smart decision to skip the whole clay season in order to preserve energy for Wimbledon, since he knew that he probably wouldn’t win a lot anyway.
As Lucky said, Rafa definitely needs to cut out some tournaments in order to make it through the season. I woudn’t mind if he skips Wimby, but I doubt he will, since he loves all slams. Therefore he needs to skip elsewhere. We will see if and how that will happen.
On a more positive note. apparently the injury isn’t all that serious. It was the right decision to play the AO and get some matches under his belt. He needed to start his season somewhere after all. He wasn’t match sharp, which may have triggered the injury, but he made it into the quarterfinal and defended his No1 position for now. That’s not an altogether negative outcome of his AO campaign.
littlefoot AT 8:12 AM,
Hmm. I have read comment sections of some other websites and noticed Fedfans’ daily propaganda.
I don’t doubt that, Augusta. But we can form opinions by what we observe ourselves. Like him or not,Fed must’ve done something right. Otherwise he wouldn’t be where he is now – all the favorisms in the world couldn’t do that. Same with Rafa. He got a lot of things right in his career and over the years he proved many naysayers wrong. But that doesn’t mean he couln’t do certain things better. I’m sure he will adapt his schedule to the needs of his body more. He has to as he gets older.
littlefoot AT 9:16 AM,
Rafa doesn’t consider Fed his role model, contrary to what some people think.
Rafa on Dec.17: “My calendar in 2017 was the right one for me, pretty much playing only the mandatory amount, except a tournament here or there picked for preparation. My idea for 2018 is similar and maybe I’ll play a couple more [in the Spanish-language version of the article: ‘fewer’] tournaments. That’s what I’m thinking, but it depends on results.”
https://en.as.com/en/2017/12/25/other_sports/1514197115_364069.html
Stanley yeah course im dissapointed, but its not something i will dwell on for too long, its not the end of the world for me, i have amazing friends, i lead an amazing life, tennis isnt the be all and end all for me ….
Rafa will return fresh for Indian wells/Miami and the clay court season. As close as Federer is, I don’t see him overtaking Rafa in 2018 and if he does it won’t be until the last half of 2018.
The last time Rafa retired from a grand slam, he went on to win the other three that year
Olly, that was eight years ago! I don’t expect that the same will happen – very unlikely. But if the injury isn’t too serious Rafa might still do well this year.But fans shouldn’t be unrealistic. We don’t even know the diagnosis. Let’s wait and see…
I agree that we have to wait and see what the disgnosis is with Rafa. However, no way am I going to second guess his decision to play the AO. He knew that he was going in without any match play. But the knee was healthy and he wanted to give it a shot. I am okay with him doing it. There is always risk in sport.
I am not going to second guess Rafa at all. Even Fed has not always made the best decisions when it comes to playing. He played Montreal and his back gave out. He lost to Zverev in the final. Then he was unable to play at Cincy. Done if his fans thought he should have skipped Montreal and played Cincy. Also, Fed skipped the entire clay season and still had back problems. So there is no sure formula for avoiding an injury, especially as you get older.
Rafa wanted to play and he did. Now all we can hope is that this injury is not serious. Then he can recover and move on. At least it’s not the knee. But as long as Rafa is playing, there will be risk. For him the rewards have been well worth it. I also do not think that Rafa should fit it out until the clay season. That’s going too long without playing. But I hope that Rafa and his team can figure out how to manage his schedule to maximize his chances at success and staying healthy.
Sorry, autocorrect typos in my last post.
SOME of Fed’s fans thought he should have skipped Montreal and played Cincy. *
I do not think Rafa should SIT it out until the clay season. *
No need to correct, we can figure it out 😉👍.
Agreed NNY!
There’s no regret in playing the AO; he’s physically fit to play, maybe just not match sharp. To me the regret is he not getting the job done quick enough when he should, hence getting himself into trouble. Perhaps that’s because he’s not match sharp and so tends to play more defensively when he should be aggressive instead.
I hope this injury is not a major issue and sincerely hope that Rafa and his team will plan his schedule well and cuts down on number of events played this year for a start.
Lucky,
Yes I agree with you! As you said, he was not match sharp. That was because he had no match play before the tournament. I am sure that Rafa knew it was going to be tough. But he decided to do it because the knee was healthy and he wanted to play. He is still #1 and that is an accomplishment.
I think you make a good point about Rafa not being match sharp causing him to play more defensively.
I think they need to cut down on the schedule but I do not think Rafa should sit it out until the clay season.
If he can recover in time, he should be playing IW and/or Miami to get match plays and so be well prepared for clay. It’s come next year that he should consider skipping some of the HC plus Rome event (I strongly feel that he shouldn’t play at Rome, unless he’s willing to skip Madrid or MC).
Couldn’t see the match but reading all your comments gave me a pretty good idea of what was going on with Rafa. The good thing was that he decided to retire when dealing with injury instead of being ,morally right’ to stay in the match risking more serious issues…hope it’s just a muscle and not the knee…
More or less we all knew Rafa was not physically ready for this AO, but I wouldn’t ever question his decision to play especially when saving his No1 spot on the way! That’s enough of the accomplishment!
I saw a couple of games and did not think Cilic was impressive. It was more Rafa falling apart that made Cilic look good! Could be wrong though since I did not watch the whole thing.
Whatever happens in this AO I only have one wish: please God save us from another whimp episode of Cilic in the potential final with Fed!
Amen! I hope Cilic learned something about how to handle injury and disappointment with dignity and class instead of boohoo-ing all over the court, but I doubt it.
Ramara- The difference between that Cilic Wimby final and this Rafa retirement was that Cilic was in a bad place and hampered mentally and physically from he get-go. If Cilic had been up 2 sets to 1 on Federer and then started to have problems, he wouldn’t have been nearly as mentally screwed as he was that day.
Also, what do you have against players who can’t hold in their emotions? Have you ever stepped on Centre Court for your first Wimbledon Final, and felt the pressure of that? When absolutely nothing is working for you, and you’re feeling all that pressure, how do you know you wouldn’t react the way Cilic did? Some players are able to hide their emotions better than others. Have you ever tried to hold it in when you absolutely couldn’t? It’s pretty much impossible…
From what I saw, it seemed that for first two sets, Cilic was legit making his presence felt, but after that abut midway through third was when Rafa started showing the signs of injury I think. Cilic is quite lucky Rafa got injured. I don’t know if Rafa for sure would have won either way but I sure wouldn’t have bet against him if he had stayed healthy through the whole thing. I reckon it might have ended up with Rafa in five but we’ll never know. I think Cilic deserves credit though. It’s not like he would have for sure lost or rolled over if Rafa was healthy, and he was hitting huge as he has been throughout the tournament. I would say he’s got the best chance at the title of anyone left besides Roger.
Sorry I meant to say I don’t know if Rafa would have won if he wasn’t injured. Don’t know why I said “either way” lol
Benny, I saw the whole match. In my opinion, Rafa hardly showed any signs of injury until the very end. What he showed signs of was fatigue (totally normal), probably from under-preparation.
He also showed signs of struggling to contain a more powerful opponent who was pushing him around in many of the rallies and increasingly on form.
Far from obvious that even a completely healthy Nadal would have won.
Totally disagree about Cilic’s play. From the middle of the second set he played terrific, and anyone who thinks he “hardly did anything” besides fist-pump doesn’t know a thing about tennis.
Here’s the classy thing for a Nadal fan to do (see, e.g. Lucky above): Congratulations to Cilic for playing a great match and a well-deserved win!
Which it was.
I agree with everything Joe Smith said today/yesterday, Joe is making a lot of sense, M. Cilic played well but I wanted Rafa to win.
I didn’t have time to watch the whole match (on replay ) but while I sympathise with Nadals injury , Cilic did play really well, the commentators said he negated Rafas topspin and used it to his advantage.The night conditions probably helped Cilic as well ,as the ball would bounce lower.
But, I don’t think even this Cilic would have won this match a few years ago when Rafa was at his physical best and therefore much more confident.
I was really looking forward to Dimitrov-Nadal rematch, but what a cracker we have instead, Ill be rooting for Kyle.
Maybe, Al. OTOH, the Cilic of 2014 USO would have beaten any version of Nadal on HC, ever. If Nadal wasn’t at his very best yesterday, neither was Cilic, even though he played very well.
A player with Cilic’s power, when he’s completely on song, is Rafa’s (and many other players’) nightmare opponent.
Yeah, Cilic in 2014 would have beaten anybody on HC .
And , goes for other players as well, Edmund if he plays like today, who knows !
Agree, Edmund could definitely beat Cilic if he plays like he did against Dimi. Hell, he could win the tournament if he serves and hits FHs like he did.
Nah, the Rafa of USO2010 version with his big serve was enough to deal with Cilic of USO2014 version, my opinion. A Djoko of AO2016 SF and F version was enough too! Just because he beat Fed in straight sets at USO2014 doesn’t mean he would be able to beat a Rafa or a Djoko at their best on the HCs!
Sorry Big Al, Cilic only played well from second half of second set onwards, if not he won’t get broken and lost his serve in the second set and lost the first set. Rafa was playing ok not great to start with, that’s how I saw it.
It’s after Cilic even the score in the second set that he upped his game, because he sensed his chances to level the match when Rafa’s serve got broken. From then, Cilic started to play more aggressively, stepping inside the court, approached the net very often while pushing Rafa well behind the baseline.
It’s Rafa’s tenacity that helped him won the third set when he wasn’t even playing well. Cilic OTOH, was playing better and better as he became more confident, sensing Rafa’s level going down.
That’s just what you said when Fed won Wimby 2007 in the fifth, Rafa got injured and Fed sensed his moment !
Big Al, so???
Thanks for the quick response, as usual!
Sorry, just meant theres little or no credit to his opponent for getting through a tough match.Its always Nadals injured, lacking in confidence or just not playing well!
Big Al, you should look at the Fed fans responses each time Fed lost too!
You think the players are robots, that they couldnt feel whether their opponent’s level had dropped or had risen out there?
I tell you what, Rafa is one great player who can sense the moment and hence knows when to turn into attacking mode and ups his own level to get the edge over his opponent.
Are you doubting Fed’s ability to sense Rafa’s vulnerabilty in that Wimbledon fifth set? Or in this case Cilic sensing thats the right moment to up his aggression when his opponent faltered a little?
Big Al you’re honestly right there. Rarely do I see after a Rafa loss a Rafan giving his opponent much credit at all. Some do of course but many do not. I mostly just see some excuse about his fitness or his scheduling and how he should be better at scheduling like Roger and all that. If Cilic had won this match in five sets with Rafa showing no signs of injury, most Rafans here would have immediately talked about how he played too defensive or wasn’t totally healthy heading in to the event, even if they are talking about how fit he seems or how aggressive he is playing the match before!! It’s like his fans expect Rafa to be perfect and gotta point out any minor flaws in his game. You know what Wilander, a highly accomplished former player, said? That Cilic’s aggression caused Rafa to run so much that he got injured!! I’m obviously not saying that’s true but no Rafan would ever admit that it was Cilic who forced Rafa into an injury with an all out attack even if they believed it or it was actually the truth. There are still lots of rafans who don’t make so many excuses or criticize Rafa so much after his losses or injuries but there are quite a few who do.
😂😂🤣🤗😋😂!
‘… Rafa losing? Nah, I saw that coming after watching the Schwartzman match. He’s simply being too defensive and got caught into a long grinding match, asking for trouble. His fitness was in question too when he said the humid conditions out there bothered him.’
Quite a lot of reasons he lost there!
So? You tell me which is not a valid one? Rafa said it himself he’s bothered by the humidity, so you don’t believe him?
Do you think ‘ he has mono, he’s old, past his prime’ not being a lot of reasons Fed lost his matches??
See Big Al, you can’t argue about my reasoning about players sensing their moments right? So you turn to finding excuses…..
See, I have my reasons and logic for posting what I posted, unlike some of you here!
I don’t make excuses like that, not even Feds mono.
Interesting if Rafa (or Fed, Nole etc) will ever simply get beat by a better player,’sensing their moment ‘ implies they would never have won if their opponent wasnt injured or whatever!
Yeah , at least you do give reasons, if a little bit biased!
Excuse me, sensing the moment is not necessary about injury; Cilic sensing the moment to up his level in set two when Rafa’s level gone down, but that’s not due to injury – Rafa wasn’t injured yet, at that time. Read carefully, I said Cilic up his level in set two too, after breaking back to level the set at 3-3.
Do you not see yourself being biased here? Why each time we explain about this or that, it’s about being biased in favor of Rafa?? If Cilic came out all guns blazing and won the match in straight sets, no question, he was obviously the better player and I’m sure most if not all Rafa fans would acknowledge that.
However, in this match, there were ebbs and flows, Rafa was obviously the better player for the first one and a half sets, and Cilic from then onwards, so clearly there were ebbs and flows during the match. The players level fluctuated during the match, so it’s perfectly reasonable that they being the top players, were able to sense that and took advantage.
Why must you take it so negatively?? Now don’t you think Fed knew of Berdy’s vulnerability when serving for the set, and so Fed took his chances and started upping his own level and then Berdych faltered? Berdych was missing so many first serves when serving for the first set! Isn’t that a logical explanation for Fed winning the set when most of the time he was trailing?
Ls,’sensing their moment’ could also be simply a great player raising their game when needed,nothing to do with their opponents ‘weakness’.
That’s a strange comment from Wilander, but I did read similar on here,Nadal was pushed so hard in Madrid 2009 that he was injured for months after.
Other thing Wilander said was that Fed was actually better this year than last,because he was more confident.
I’m responding to your comments because you do have good analysis but still tainted with bias .A lot of fans have their favourite player and that’s it.
Big Al, but in Fed’s case, it’s him sensing Berdcyh’s weakness, you can’t deny that even though you are trying to! Cilic may also be sensing Rafa’s weakness then when Rafa lost his serve in set two, so Cilic raised his level thereafter. Not that difficult to understand right??
Big Al, you speak for yourself, that you’re biased, a biased Fed fan!
And, Wilander is talking rubbish about Fed; clearly Fed was hitting his BH better last year, hardly missed that one whilst he was hitting loads of errors during this AO. Not forgetting, who had Fed beaten this AO, compared to last year? Only a better version of Berdych now than last year; last year he beat Kei and Stan, both top five players! Both of them were playing well and that’s why they went five sets with Fed but they were unfortunate to get injured during the matches.
Don’t always quote Wilander, his thoughts and opinions always sway this way or the other; he’s consistently being inconsistent!
You know what? I would hope that Cilic acts in a more professional way than he did when Rafa had to retire due to being injured. After all, this is the guy who had that painful toe blister in the Wimbledon final with Fed and broke down in front of everyone. Why? Because he couldn’t play his game and knew he couldn’t win. So where was his compassion for Rafa?
Cilic had nothing to do with Rafa getting injured! That is about as ridiculous as anything I have heard! Wilander is a well known critic of Rafa. He’s been doing it for years. So anything he says is clouded with his own bias.
Some people here seem to have forgotten that Rafa was up two sets to one in that match! Yeah Cilic was really taking it out of him. It was a spirited contest with both guys having their moments. No one can know for sure who would have won if Rafa had not gotten injured. No one here is a psychic. You can have an opinion. That’s about it.
Rafa did come into the AO without any match play. Fact. It was a risk. He knew it, but he wanted to play. It’s not an excuse to speak the truth. The match with Diego probably had more to do with any subsequent injury that Rafa had.
I really dislike when anyone generalizes about Rafa fans. Don’t presume to speak for us with one voice. It’s not about excuses. It’s about facing the fact that it was going to be an uphill battle for Rafa in this tournament. He was right to stop and not continue and risk further injury.
I just wish that Cilic had remembered his own experience and had demonstrated some sportsmanship and decency instead of celebrating like he actually won the match. He got the win by way of retirement. It still is a win in the record books. He’s in the semis.
There is no reason to trash Rafa’s fans. We have had a lot of experience with his injuries and especially his bad luck at the AO. I know that I will deal with it and this is not the end of the world.
I disagree with Wilander’s comment as well. Wasn’t the point I was trying to get across and NNY for the record I don’t see you as a Rafan who is always making excuses for him or anything. You’re one of the coolest rafans on the site with some of the best insight of anyone
No,and I agree.We’ve all got to be tennis fans first then have our favourites.
👍 Very well put, NNY! Benny and Big Al should pay attention to your post here!
If anything, it’s the die hard anti-Rafa Fed fans who are the ones who are biased against Rafa and his fans, and would always big up Rafa’s opponents once they beat Rafa, without even wanting to know why Rafa has lost and they straight away jump into the conclusion that the Rafa fans are making excuses. Such, is the negativity these people have against the Rafa fans, and it’s as if Fed fans themselves don’t make excuses for Fed’s losses, and many times unreasonable ones – he’s old, he has past his prime, he has mono when he lost in 2009!
You know what, when I said Fed didn’t play too well vs Berdych when he had many DFs in a game, was overhitting and netting some of his shots, uncharacteristic if Fed was playing well, some of his fans jumped at me, as if Fed was so
… so perfect that he could do no wrong! And yet, they’re here criticizing Rafa fans for making up excuses!
Okay I just want to apologize for something pretty important. I had NO CLUE that Cilic celebrated after the win, honest to god. I was very sad to see the way the match ended and turned off the TV before I could have seen the celebration. I apologize for not really acknowledging that or mentioning how stupid of Cilic that is to celebrate after a champ like Rafa has to retire like that. I understand if you believe that I was okay with Cilic’s celebration, considering I hadn’t mentioned it or anything. Trust me I think Cilic is pretty lucky Rafa retired as I said a few days ago on here and I did not big up Cilic either. You don’t big up a guy much if he wins off of retirement as it is. I just initially thought there should be some more credit given his way, but honestly, I now understand why any fan of Rafa would be hectic to give Cilic any credit or props because that is rude and uncool of Cilic to do what he did. He should have taken the win with the utmost humility like Rafa would.
When Cilic succumbed mentally in Wimby final , Fed was pretty muted in celebration and speech. Even if he was pretending, a lot to learn for Cilic from big 3 who sense occasion well.
I didn’t know this either.Bad form Cilic!
Cilic and Rafa had a lot of bad blood . Cilic was given time violation and he was upset that Rafa was not handed
time violation when his avg time to serve was little higher than Rafa.
In hindsight all big players get advantage. Fed with scheduling and Rafa regarding time violation thing.Cilic is not absolutely wrong when he accuses Rafa.
I was responding to Natashao at 10:00 PM, his/her comment is funny especially the end.
Natashao if you haven’t watched the highlight/match here you go-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nTbe9x0LpGA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lau5aRvvpeY
Yes, it is correct that Fed did not go overboard out of respect for the fact that Cilic was unable to play his game. I thought that was very gracious of Fed. It was the right thing to do. Cilic did not retire in that match. He did what Rafa has done at times. He just gutted it out even though he knew he had no chance.
I am not trying to be mean in bringing up how Cilic cried on court. I don’t like to see anyone have to go through that. It is not anything I would wish on any player.
I did not bring up what Cilic did after Rsfa retired. I understand if someone did not see it and did not realize what happened. But I saw it and won’t forget it.
Cilic played well in the match. I only wish that the match could have played out to its conclusion. But I was extremely upset to see how Cilic reacted. He could have waited until Rafa was off the court if he wanted to celebrate.
I was disappointed because Cilic went through it himself. But Fed was class personified in victory. I would have hoped that Cilic could have given Rafa the same consideration that Fed gave him.
So true, Cilic should have handled that so much differently.
It’s true that Cilic wasn’t impressive in the first two sets; Rafa even was a break up in the second set, but lost serve immediately allowing Cilic back into the match. To me it’s more of Rafa’s own undoing in the second set, had he won that set, I doubt Cilic would become so confident in the third set ( and onwards).
Cilic played a good game plan by coming to the net very often, not wanting to rally with Rafa. Rafa as usual returned from way behind the baseline and so allowing Cilic time to move to the net to intercept Rafa’s short balls. Had Rafa continued to stay aggressive (as he did during his first three rounds here), he would not allow Cilic to dictate so often, too bad Rafa was too defensive as the match went on.
Rafa was aggressive in first 3 rounds against junk opponents who allowed him to get aggressive. Thats the difference. Against Argentine and Croation he could not get aggressive.
Not true, it’s how he started the match. He chose to serve first, so he had all the chances to play an aggressive game from the get go. It’s not as if he had not played against Schwartzman and Cilic before; he chose to wait and see instead of being aggressive from the get go. Rafa’s aggression > Schwartzman’s and Cilic’s, and he’s way more consistent. However he started his matches being more of a counterpuncher mindset, probably being wary of these two opponents.
You don’t call L Mayer junk player when he was able to push Rafa close even on clay, and took a set off Rafa at the USO last year.
Lucky,
Yes I hope Rafa plays I/W and Miami. I could see him skipping Rome. He got lucky by losing to Theim in the quarterfinals. He got out of there and was able to get a little break before RG.
I am hoping to see Rafa and his team making decisions about where he will and won’t play. I want to see him playing a little longer.
You are right there, Nats. In fact after years of watching Rafa, you can make out when he has a glint in his eye and he is chasing the ball like a hare especially on crucial points. Cilic hardly did anything but in spite of that fist pumping all over the place when he slapped a winner past a compromised Rafa.
Rafa definitely was not ready for competition. what a pity, when he is healthy, he has been denied by a fellow big 4 and when the draw has opened up he has had injuries 🙁
You can also watch the full match here, set by set-
Rafael Nadal vs Marin Cilic Full Match SET 1 HD – Men’s Singles Quarter-Final Australian Open 2018
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hxwf67OQBmM
Or here- 3 hours 6 minutes long.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ciBWWiDbM
Hello all! News flash! ESPN got the report from Rafa’s camp that scans reveal only a grade one injury in his leg muscle, no tears. He should be back in three weeks for Acapulco!
😀
From VB –
https://twitter.com/stu_fraser/status/9 … 2503785472
Here is the actual twitter announcement that was posted on VB –
“Rafael Nadal’s MRI scan in Melbourne this morning shows a “grade 1 injury of his iliopsoas on his right leg”. Three week recovery time expected. Still hopes to play in Acapulco.”
Good! At least it is not serious so Rafa can now rest and recover; I think he wants to play at Acapulco to test his body and gets some match play.
He will barely recover n still wants to play Acapulco. Rafa..will you ever learn please? Go straight to IW
The injury was caused by rafa not being match fit n having less preparations before tourney n then running around to chase everything. The stress was lot on his body.
On this last time he retired he won 3 that year, Please don’t fall for all this. He was supposed to win as he had beaten Leonardo Mayer but nothing of that sort happened. I would be happy if rafa wins a slam ..forget 3 🙂
Btw after knowing rafa pulled out injured , Cilic should have behaved more gracefully. I absolutely detested his behaviour when Rafa was in court. He could have waited for Rafa to leave the court atleast.
On few people commenting above that there is no guarantee a fit nadal would have won the match , another attempt at again trying to put Rafa down. Rafa was up 2 sets to 1 n he was clear favorite to win the match from there on. He got injured right in 4th 3rd or 4th game.
Sanju, Rafa was very lucky to win 3rd set. Cilic was dominating the rallies and missed a very easy put-away for 6-5 in the TB. Watch Rafa’s face after that miss: he wasn’t celebrating, because he knew he got lucky right there.
You’re right that objectively, Rafa should have been favoured to win after a 2-1 lead. But despite winning the set, Cilic was the more aggressive player, controlling most of the points. The match was really on his racquet, and Rafa really didn’t have any answers to his power when it was under control. The main reason Rafa was standing so far back on the 1st serve is because he knew his chances of making a good return standing closer were slim.
So I hardly think it’s putting Rafa down to say that there was no guarantee he would have won, up 2-1, even if he was fully healthy. Favoured at that point, yes, but no guarantee of victory.
Joe Smith says AT 6:56 AM: “Watch Rafa’s face after that miss (Cilic’s): he wasn’t celebrating.”
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Hmm. It makes me think that it’s normal for YOUR darling to celebrate his opponent’s UEs.
It’s a big point. Most players celebrate when they win big points, no matter how they win them.
Benny G,
You’re wrong in this instance – most Rafa fans do acknowledge that Cilic up his game from later half of second set. Rafa not being as fit as he used to is understandable, not an excuse, since he couldn’t train for most of the past two months.
It’s the usual anti-Rafa Fed fans who failed to acknowledge these facts, they’re the biased ones yet they claimed that the Rafa fans were the biased one giving excuses.
I just hope you aren’t saying I regularly make excuses for Fed’s losses. I barely addressed his back after his loss to Zverev, I gave a LOT of praise to Del Po at the US Open, and I barely addressed his subpar level against Goffin after that one too as I just simply said Goffin was shockingly aggressive and too good on the day. And I’m sorry lucky but I have just seen many Rafans (not necessarily the majority but a lot) on this site just continuously discuss his scheduling, his injuries, and how poorly he played following losses, even if he didn’t play badly. For example, Rafa played a good match against Muller at Wimbledon, and while many acknowledged how well Muller played and how high quality the match was, several fans also just continuously discussed afterwards how tight Rafa was playing in the fifth and how he should have broken and how he shouldn’t have gotten off to the poor start and all that stuff. I am just speaking from experience on here and basically acknowledging that there is a solid bit of truth to what Big Al was initially arguing.
Also, I am not anti-Rafa as I have the utmost respect and admiration for what he has done individually throughout his career and for the sport. (Not saying u accused me of being anti Rafa, just wanted to make it clear)
Benny G says AT 4:14 AM. “Rafans (not necessarily the majority but a lot) on this site just continuously discuss his scheduling.”
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That’s because some fans let themselves get influenced by Fedafans’ daily propaganda.
Benny, I don’t follow other tennis sites, and I can’t say anything about “Rafa fans” (or Fed fans) in general. I can say, however, that the majority of Rafa fans who are regular contributors to this forum find it very hard to accept any Nadal defeat straightforwardly. Almost invariably, they will focus on an injury, his sub-par performance, his lack of match play, etc. Uncharitably but perhaps accurately, these are best labelled as excuses.
I think this is of a piece with Rafa fans’ belief that Nadal, at his best, should beat anyone, perhaps with the exception of Djokovic on HC. They particularly find it hard to accept losses to journeymen (Rosol) or newbies (Shapovalov). For some, such as Hawkeye, it is an article of faith (not dissimilar to beliefs of literal religious fanatics on this site) that Nadal at his best will always beat Federer.
I don’t think this level of fanaticism is generally true of Federer fans on this site, myself included. Like you, Benny, I was inclined simply to say that Fed was beaten by the better player last year (in matches I saw), including Zverev, del Potro, and Goffin. I don’t think I make any excuses for Fed losses, though doubtless someone could pull up an old post of mine that makes me rethink that claim.
In my opinion, in general, the Rafa fans on this site are more fervent, even religious, in their Rafa fandom than are the Fed fans. Benny, Kevin, Eugene, Big Al, TWD, and I dare say myself, are generally more measured in their support of Fed than are the Rafa fans. Perhaps we are not representative of Federer fans more generally, and no doubt people like Augusta are reacting to something real that exists in the wider tennis fan world. Limiting my observations to this site, however, I think what I’m saying is true.
Benny,
After the Muller match, it’s normal for the Rafa fans to dissect and see what went wrong, and I think that’s pretty normal. If Muller beat Rafa in straight sets convincingly, then no arguments, simply Rafa was being outplayed. But, when the match was that close, certainly the Rafa fans would want to find out why Rafa lost such a close match!
Come on, are the Rafa fans not allowed to concentrate on Rafa’s performances and see what went wrong there? Are we always have to sing praises to his opponents??? Don’t you find the anti Rafa Fed fans unreasonable? They want to cheer for Rafa’s opponent’s that’s their right and their business, but don’t forbid the Rafa fans from analyzing what went wrong with Rafa!
Lucky, I’m sorry if I came across as trying to “forbid Rafa fans from analyzing what went wrong” with his performance. I was just branching off of what Big Al was saying earlier. I just think there is some truth to his argument in the sense that often it seems not much credit is given to Rafa’s opponents when he loses and that there is a significantly greater amount of focus on the issues with Rafa and how poor he may have played or what injury he was dealing with, etc. Anyways, it really isn’t that important. I was just sort of defending Big Al’s point a little bit. But honestly I do want to say that I personally don’t really give Cilic props for the win because of how he celebrated afterwards. If you react like that to a retirement/injury of a gracious competitor like Rafa, then you shouldn’t get much or any praise at all for your win.
Lots of players, including Rafa, celebrate after their opponent misses a shot, including making an UE. This happens not infrequently following a long rally.
The reason Rafa didn’t celebrate after that point, imo, is because he knew he had been thoroughly beaten in the point and was lucky to win it due to Cilic’s miss.
Just because you worship one player doesn’t mean I do: no player is “my darling.” Unlike you, I don’t obsessively detail one player’s training regimen, injuries, stock announcements, etc.
Curiously, as others have pointed out, you apparently have nothing whatsoever to say about actual tennis.
That’s fine; you’re entitled to your religion. Just don’t assume that others are like you.
Joe Smith says AT 7:51 AM:”The reason Rafa didn’t celebrate after that point, imo, is because he knew…”
===
You don’t know anything about what Rafa knows or doesn’t know.
As for “obsessively detail one player’s…”, I have noticed that you prefer to post make up stories instead of facts. (When I have read your posts instead of skipping them.)
I don’t know anything about what Rafa knows? That’s why I said “in my opinion.”
It’s called an inference, in this case based on how the point was played and on Rafa’s facial reaction.
Perhaps you should read my posts instead of skipping them; you might learn something interesting.
Please supply an example of a “make-up” story that I have posted.
Joe Smith AT 8:29 AM,
End of.
Wrong assumption by Joe, about Rafa fans thinking that Rafa could only lose to Djoko on the HCs. Rafa’s H2H vs other players didn’t say so – he lost more on the HCs than anywhere else; and he lost to players like Fed, Murray, Delpo, Tsonga, etc on the HCs when he wasn’t injured but either he didn’t play well, or simply he was being outplayed.
I don’t think we gave any excuses when Tsonga beat him convincingly at AO in 2008; or Murray beat him at Canada in 2010 for egs. There are just too much generalizations going on about Rafa fans, and the unreasonable anti Rafa fans can’t even leave the Rafa fans alone to analyze why Rafa lost his matches, and wanted the Rafa fans to sing praises to his opponents, ridiculous!
Like I said, it’s Rafa’s own undoing that he lost the second set after breaking Cilic’s serve. Rafa was clearly playing better than Cilic in the first two sets when he could generate so many BP chances! He could have broken Cilic more often had he returned the second serves better. I won’t be surprised that Rafa would win in straight sets had he won the second set; I am sure he would step it up after winning the second set to finish the job and not allowing Cilic to play his game (Cilic is not known to be mentally tough).
The fact that he lost the second set after being one break up might have dented his confidence a bit, knowing that he would have to play at least two more sets to win. Cilic did up his level in the third set and after.
Well, Lucky, the simplest thing to say is that Rafa was playing better through his service break in the 2nd set. In the first set he played terrific tennis, aggressive and accurate. However, after Cilic broke back in the 2nd, he was generally the better player, even if Rafa was able to take a very close 3rd set tiebreak.
Would Rafa have won in straights if he’d won the 2nd? Maybe, but that set wasn’t exactly close: the score was 3-6 against him. So it’s a pretty big “if”.
A more plausible “if,” imo, is that if Cilic would have won the very tight 3rd set TB, he would have closed out the match in 4.
Joe, if Rafa won the second set, Im sure Cilic wont even have the chance to make the third set close, thats how I see Cilic. Had Rafa held serve, he would still be up a break and Im not sure he would lose the set from then on.
Rafa was 40-30 up in his service game after breaking Cilic in the second set but after a few deuces, he DF to give Cilic the adv and then a two second serves more, he lost his serve. Its from then onwards that Cilic raised his level to win the second set; even then Rafa had his chances when hes serving at 3-4 and 40-30 up to level the set but served a few points poorly to lose serve again.
I disagree that Rafa was playing well, when he was serving with ave speed 170+kph compared to his normal 190+ kph in his previous matches. Hes just playing OK by his high standard, hence Cilic when he raised his game was able to push Rafa around behind the baseline.
This doesn’t have to do with the AO but Nishikori lost first round of the challenger at Newport Beach in his return from injury!! Oh my lord Kei has gotta get something going fast.
Poor Kei, born at the wrong time, joined the main tour when the big four were at their domineering best, so he won’t stand a chance. Had he been at Chung’s age and playing as a 21 yo now, he might have his chances like the youngsters now.
So true, although I’m not so sure with how injury prone Kei is. Recurring injury problems that last through one’s career make it almost impossible to reach the very top (unless you’re the resilient beast that is Rafa of course)