They’re not done yet. And neither is the rivalry.
For the first time at the Australian Open since 2009 and for the first time overall since the 2011 French Open, Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer will be facing each other in a Grand Slam final when they collide on Sunday night at Melbourne Park.
Nadal leads the head-to-head series 23-11 and even owns a somewhat surprising 9-7 edge on hard courts. The Spaniard is 9-2 against Federer in all Grand Slam matches, including 3-0 at the Australian Open. Federer, whose two major wins over Nadal have come at Wimbledon (2006 and 2007), came out on top of their most recent encounter via a 6-3, 5-7, 6-3 decision in the 2015 Basel final.
Federer-Nadal XXXV in a major final comes as borderline shock, and not just because both veterans trudged through all of last season without reaching a slam title match. In fact, saying that neither one even made it through all of last season would be more accurate. A wrist injury forced Nadal out of the French Open after two rounds, sidelined him from Wimbledon, and ended his 2016 campaign after two Asian-swing events. A knee issue prevented Federer from playing two of the four slams and he missed the final five months of the year after falling to Milos Raonic in the Wimbledon semifinals.
“That’s where both Rafa and myself said, ‘Okay, enough of this already,’ Federer said of their respective decisions to shut things down early in 2016. “‘Let’s get back to 100 percent, enjoy tennis again, enjoy the practice.’ Not just practice; treatment, practice, treatment, match, treatment. All the time all you’re doing is fighting the fire.”
To say a much-needed offseason has rejuvenated the all-time greats and refueled their fire would be a gross understatement.
Nadal warmed up for 2017 by winning the six-man Abu Dhabi event, taking out Tomas Berdych, Milos Raonic, and David Goffin along the way. The world No. 9 lost to Raonic in Brisbane, but he avenged that setback with a 6-4, 7-6(7), 6-4 victory over the Canadian in the Aussie Open quarterfinals. In addition to that result, Nadal has advanced by beating Florian Mayer, Marcos Baghdatis, Alexander Zverev, Gael Monfils, and Grigor Dimitrov. The 14-time major champion has twice required five sets–first against Zverev and then in an epic 6-3, 5-7, 7-6(5), 6-7(4), 6-4 struggle with Dimitrov that lasted four hours and 56 minutes on Friday.
Federer has an extra day of rest, as he survived a five-setter of his own against Swiss countryman Stan Wawrinka on Thursday. The 35-year-old preceded that victory with defeats of Jurgen Melzer, Noah Rubin, Tomas Berdych, Kei Nishikori, and Mischa Zverev.
“It’s going to be special,” Federer assured. “It’s the epic battle with Rafa…. I just think he’s an incredible tennis player. He’s got shots that no other one has. When you have that, you are unique and special. Plus he’s got the grit. He’s got the mental and physical ability to sustain a super-high level of play for years and for hours and for weeks. He’s proven that time and time again.”
“(It) is special play with Roger again in a final of a Grand Slam,” Nadal added. “I cannot lie. (It) is great; exciting for me and for both of us that we (are) still there and we (are) still fighting for important events.”
Exciting for them and for everyone else in the tennis world.
“Everyone is going to see that final now,” Dimitrov said during his post-match press conference after losing to Nadal. “Including me. I’m going to watch it for sure. It’s super amazing. It’s great for the sport.”
It should be a great match, too. Nadal has been dominant in the head-to-head series, but the playing field could be evened out by Federer’s extra day of rest, Nadal’s grueling semifinal, and because conditions in Melbourne are slightly faster than usual. That being said, Nadal has proven that–when healthy, as he is now–he can bounce back in style from energy-sapping efforts. He will likely do just that again, and therefore be able to execute his unwavering game-plan against Federer: pound away at the one-handed backhand with spin serves out wide to the ad court and with heavy topspin forehands.
Pick: Nadal in 4
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For real- you people who hate on and disrespect either Rafa or Roger need to get a lost. You just sound jealous. These guys cry because they desperately want to win and care that much. We should be grateful the care so much. Roger cried after 2009 AO because he wanted to win. He’s a sensitive dude- so what? Rafa said he cried in the car after he had to withdraw from Roland Garros last year. He cried because getting back to his winning self means so much to him. Calling them crybabies is laughable when you think about how tough those guys are and how much ass they’ve kicked… Why do people have to feel so threatened when an argument is made for one of them being better than the other? Arguments can be made for both of them being the greatest EVER! Think about that! Why can’t they just both be appreciated as the two greatest players ever? Just recognize the greatest in each of them and enjoy it. I can’t believe I’m actually saying this to a bunch of adults, but if you don’t have anything nice to say, then keep it to yourself because most of us don’t want to hear it…
By the way, I’ve been following this site for quite a while now, and I can honestly say that the majority of users on this site are NOT disrespectful toward the player who is not their favorite. Thank you for keeping the site enjoyable! You all know who you are!
very well put Kevin
including the fact that being sensitive does not mean being less strong,
and boy how we need many many many more men on the planet to be more sensitive (and strong)
@Kevin,
Very well said. Rafa and Roger have tremendous respect, admiration and liking for one another. In sport that’s how rivalries should end. More respect for these guys for maintaining it that way throughout their long careers. No one knows and understands you better than your rival. No one does more to determine your reputation. Your reputation is in his reputation. To demean Nadal is to demean Federer and vice versa.
Federer loves tennis and its players. Nadal loves all sport and sportsmen. Together they work for the improvement of their sport. Their shared goal is to make tennis better. They have done that.
Amen
Completely Agree. Well said
I just really hope we get a good match. A tight match. It really cannot be overstated how incredible and unlikely it is for these two dudes to be in the final… No matter what the outcome of the match is, I think we can conclude two things: 1.) Rafa will have to be considered one of the favorites to win Roland Garros, and 2.) Roger will have to be considered one of the favorites to win Wimbledon, despite being basically 36 years old.
I hope so damn much that these two guys stay healthy and injury-free through the whole season. I can’t wait to see how things transpire in terms of Djokovic and Murray. Can they get back to their respective heights of last season? If Djokovic happens to start running the table again, how would a very resurgent Nadal stand up against him now? Oh man… The thought of a Rafa-Djokovic Roland Garros final or semifinal where Djokovic is the one defending the title is suddenly very intriguing! And will Dimitrov keep up, or even improve upon the form he has shown thus far this season? Or will he struggle to bounce back from such a tough loss to Rafa? I feel like I haven’t been this psyched for a new season in a while…
^^^^ seconded
Nadal tired with semis.if he recovers in time for final Federer has no chance.
Aus open should consider in future give same days of rest for both finalists.
Yep
One extra day off and 25% less time on court matters… And also consistency… Roger has been in 2 x SF & 2 x F at his last 4 Slams while Rafa hasn’t passed the 4th Round at any since RG 2015. Roger is a smarter player than Grigor. This will be epic but I find all these Nadal in 4 predictions a bit simplistic. This isn’t 2009…
loving all the new posters!
Who Ricky?
just everyone making predictions on the match
Hey Ricky,I never say thank u to u for let me blogging here..it’s really fun and very enjoyable experience for me so far..And the posters!Wow!!They’re ALL amazing!!I fell in love with Nny and amy and rc already!!ha ha ha..So,THANK U RICKY!!
thanks!
Thanks Ricky! I finally got the guts to start posting. At first I felt like I maybe didn’t belong here because I’m not pro-Rafa and anti-Fed- I’m pro-Rafa and pro-Fed. However, I eventually realized that most people weren’t anti-Federer as much as they are pro-Rafa, so I joined in. And I’m glad I did!
thanks for doing so!
We’ll see Johnny!NEVER EVER COUNT RAFA OUT!!
and it’s becoming much less all Rafa all the time. The majority are Rafans, but plenty of others now too…. Just look at the results of the Aussie Open final poll!
Ricky,
Is there a way for me to give a user on here my email to talk tennis directly without having to display my email for everyone to see?
you can email me and I can hook you up. ridimon@gmail.com
Ricky (AT 2:06 AM),
I looked at the Aussie Open final poll. Yep, Fedfans’ voting machine has taken a control over it.
Not counting Rafa out one bit, just not agreeing with the general consensus everywhere I look that Nadal in 4 is the best odd here considering all factors.
Okay Johhny,fair enough..
I have to agree with you, Johnny. Although I don’t think I can actually bring myself to pick Roger to win over Rafa at a slam until he shows he can do it again. However, I am surprised that people seem to be not even mentioning that fact that Federer is playing considerably differently than he has in the past. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems to me that Fed is attacking the at a significantly higher rate than he has, at least since his early days when he serve and vollied a lot. Sure, he’s maybe attacked the net a lot occasionally, but it seems to now be a major part of his game plan. Also just very aggressive playing in general. I’m not saying it will definitely work on Rafa, but if he can do it at a high enough rate and do it successfully, that would be a very different match for Rafa from what he’s used to wth Fed. He will have to have to be spot on with it and win the net points at a really high rate for it to work, but given his level of play thus far in the tournament, and that the supposedly quicker court speed suits his game so well, I am surprised that some people seem like they are 100 percent sure that this will be business as usual… That being said, I just can’t pick Federer to beat Rafa in a slam until I see him do it again. But if Fed pulls it off, I absolutely will not be shocked at all.
I take into consideration Fed with his new tactics still needed five sets to dispatch Kei and five to dispatch Stan, so against Rafa, Fed would have a harder time.
Fed is also much older now, at 35, not 28 as in 2009. At AO2009, Fed had a relatively easy path to the final yet he lost to a Rafa who had a grueling path to the final. Fed’s path to the final now wasn’t a smooth and easy one, so there’s hope for the 30yo Rafa, to beat this 35yo Fed in four or five sets.
Rafa had just turned 20 the last time Fed beat him in a slam 10 years ago.
Hawstradamus-
Which is precisely why I could never pick Roger over Rafa in a slam until he shows he can do it again. 🙂
He can. Was very close in 2009.
Most predictions of this match ignore the fact that most of the Fed-Rafa rivalry occurred before Fed switched to the larger racquet. They have played just two matches since that switch, with Nadal winning the first at the AO 2014, barely a few weeks after Fed had switched. The fact is that Federer’s BH is stronger than ever, and isn’t nearly the weakness it was. He didn’t play that well against Wawrinka, but the BH down the line was brilliant against Berdych and Nishikori. Roger’s main weakness against Nadal (and more recently Novak) has always been mental. If he can play loose tomorrow, hit his 1st serve at 65%, and hit his BH like he has been for the past few years, he will win. Dimitrov played great against Nadal, but he didn’t play the big points (esp. break points) that well. Fed’s best is still better in all facets of the game than Grigor (esp. at the net), and anything near his best tomorrow will win.
fair points
but why would he suddenly start hitting the 1HBH well against Nadal after not doing so against Stan? It’s much tougher for Fed to hit good 1HBH’s against Nadal.
Rite…
Because Rafa has more top spin with his forehand from AD court to Fed bh… most dificult thing is to control that spin with sngl bh.. so fedr now need to add more topspin to his forehand.. then he can also trouble Rafa in that ground…
As I said below, I just think Roger had an off day against Stan. So did Stan, which is lucky for Fed. I don’t agree that it’s easier to his a OHB against Stan than Nadal, at least not when Stan’s on form, because then he simply blasts the BH right by you. He did that a few times, but Roger didn’t let him get into a rhythm. I will say this, however: I’m sure Rafa is much happier to be playing Roger than Stan, since Wawrinka seems to save his very best tennis for GS finals.
@Joe Smith…Yeah,i agree with everything u said..BUT like u said Rog only played rafa twice including in Basel in 2015 when rafa lost[rafa had an appendix problem at this time,and not at his best]..and i agree Rog was awesome in almost every department but he didn’t use his magnificent BH on rafa yet..As we all know,his BH is a liability when he faced with rafa..rafa will hit the ball with so much topspin which forces the ball to shoot up high on one handed backhand of roger and making it so difficult for roger to control with that shot and i’m sure rafa will once again using this tactics because it’s so effective..he will go out there and pounding his FH relentlessly into roger’s one handed backhand since it bring him so much success against roger all this time..That’s why their H2H is so onesided…But i believe rog will come out with multiple tactics this time including maybe using SABR or serve and volley more and approached the net more often..But i also believe that rafa will come out with his own tactics as well such as step up more closely to the baseline like he did against milos and Dimi and already proved it success..all in all i can’t wait to see this two greats spar with each other on court and we will see who’s tactics will prove superior than the other..
Mira Andi (AT 5:15 AM),
Rafa had an appendix problem in 2014.
Oh really augusta?Oh sorry!My mistake…and sorry to Joe smith as well..
I agree that Rafa’s heavy top to Fed’s BH has been a problem in the past. But again, Fed’s BH is very much better than it was 3-4 years ago. In any case, I think Dimitrov showed that a one-hander can handle Rafa’s topspin: the Nadal FH to the Dimitrov BH was not the shot that won Nadal that match, and it won’t be the shot that wins it for him against Fed IF Roger plays like he is capable of on the BH wing. That’s no guarantee, of course. I think he had an off day against Stan, tbh. Neither played at their best, and the match quality in general was nothing like the Nadal-Dimitrov match. My point is just that I think most people are over-rating the importance of the dynamic due to the improvement that has occurred for Roger since he changed racquets.
Agree..Rafa has not played the Roger with changed racquet and better BH
Right on, he needs to play as well as Dimitrov but with the added tactical/decision that Federer always brings. I think he’s favourite but needs to win quickly, maybe in three.
Frankly speaking Dimitrov played well today.Roger wont play better than that now at this age.if Rafa plays same intensity its tough for roger
Roger certainly won’t play that kind of defense
I agree that Dimitrov played great yesterday. But he missed a number of key chances in every set; in general, he played the biggest points worse than he did the rest of them. As everyone knows, these tight matches come down to a few points. Of course, Roger might not play the big points well either tomorrow. But it’s certainly not true that Roger can’t play better than Grigor did yesterday. He can certainly serve better; and did a few days ago against Berdych, where he hit an insane percentage of first serves. That’s the most important shot in tennis, and (imo) Nadal’s improvement in that area is a big reason he’s doing better than he has in years. But he won’t get as many free points on serve as Fed, if Roger is serving near his best.
@Joe Smith…Of course Roger can play better than Grigor!Everyone knows that…It’s a fact..but the things is..Roger has this some kind of mental block when at the other end is RAFA..He can play out of this world tennis with other players but seems out of idea in a key moments when he played rafa..many times in the past he made a mistakes that he shouldn’t have made ,and rafa[bless him] always came up with his own amazing perfomance out of nowhere when he played roger…suddenly he managed to up his game to 20%-30% more than his previous matches…i once read that roger himself admitted this fact..i can’t wait to see whether this fact is still there tomorrow..But like rafa said,the past is irrelevant now..who play better will win..Many said the courts and balls a little bit quicker this year so it will favour roger but we will see the outcome tomorrow..C’mon Rog and Rafa!!!!!
It’s got nothing to do with age otherwise you’d have young guys in the final right now. Rafa’s game has been pretty much the same in each game he’s played, and he could easily have gone out twice. Federer hasn’t been in much trouble yet – he alarmingly seemed to switch off for two sets against Wawrinka. Obviously if he does that he’ll lose big style. But these courts suit his game, I think that’s why he’s surprised everyone with the ease at which he’s come through – the only questions are physical/mental toughness in a long match.
Nny…Here’s an articles for u to read..
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/tennis/88860173/-
http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/story/_/id/18569665/imagine-roger-federer-rafael-nadal-exchanged-letters-eve-their-australian-open-final
federer in 4 sets 7-6,6-7,6-4,6-3
bold
Serena made history..beats Steffis record in open era..
WE need to see tomorrow if history will be made..Rafa first in open era to have double career slam
Fed winning 18 is not history I think as he is already all time slam title leader and already owns that distinction.
a Nadal victory just seems too obvious to me, so Fed will probably win.
A classic final but a tough one which could go either way but have to give this one to Nadal beating Milos Raonic so easy made him to be favourite. The match will be won through execution of net points and specifically drop points and which Roger has an advantage in executing them…
I would say give any other reason than beating Raonic for Nadal winning tomorrow. Raonic is the antithesis of Federer, the only comparison to be made is with Rafa’s game against Dimitrov, who’s a great tennis player. But Federer is a better tactician than Dimitrov, a better strategist, stronger mentally, an all court player. So if he plays well tomorrow he’s going to win.
If you look at Nadal ,he diffused the serve weapon of all top players so far here. Dmitrov serve is more quicker than Federer’s. Dmitrov is young and he ran all the court in the last match non stop. This is where difference comes in place. Serve and volley is dangerous against Nadal, he returns so well. So Federer is left with only choice to fight at the back of the court. Recent inauguration at Nadal’s foundation and Federer’s visit there are all business related outside tennis. They are just rivals using advertisements to improvise their own business. Nadal needs this Grandslam and coming french very badly. We have Djokovic,Zverev and Murray ready to win other grandslams. Federer was lucky not to face Murray here. Nadal will continue his attacking style and will not give free points to Federer like he did to dmitrov.
Sanju-
I agree that from a historical standpoint, Rafa is going for something that hasn’t been done in so long. It’s always been amazing to me that he hasn’t yet done it due to his virtual invincibility at Roland Garros. Surely Roger and Novak would have at least won a 2nd French Open title had Rafa not been almost impossible to beat there during his prime. I think that aside from getting his career slam in New York in 2010 or finally beating Fed at Wimbledon in 2008, I think that if Rafa wins tomorrow it could be the most significant title for him.
From a personal standpoint, Rafa winning tomorrow would be such an amazing feat for him. Not only because he had the wrist problem last season, but because he just hadn’t been able to be a real threat at the majors since RG 2014. And that’s what was so difficult for me and other appreciators of his- he was ALWAYS either one of the biggest or THE biggest threat at all the majors! And then he suddenly went through 8 majors without getting to the semis, which was astonishing. If someone had told me in mid-2014 that Rafael Nadal wouldn’t make a slam semifinal for 2 1/2 years, I would have absolutely laughed in their face!
I know that his resurgence last clay season and subsequent withdrawal from Roland Garros was part of what motivated to get to where he’s at currently, but I honestly think that the big turning point for him came after he lost the five-setter to Pouille in New York. That was a match he should have won, despite his wrist. The situation he was in at the end of that fifth set tie break was the exact situation that he was known for getting through. Forget about the whole match before that moment. Those last couple points, where he dumped the short forehand in the net, that was a moment that Rafa normally seized probably 100% of the time. He’s a warrior. Those moments normally belong to Rafa Nadal. But he didn’t seize the moment that time. And he knew it! And I believe that after that match, he made a pact with himself that he was never going to let that happen again. I think that motivated him more than we can even imagine… And the biggest evidence for this to me is that he did to Zverev and ESPECIALLY Dimitrov what he didn’t do against Pouille. No matter the outcome of this tournament, the moment when he dug in and took that fifth set from Dimitrov was the moment when he became Rafa Nadal again. Especially mentally. That to me couldn’t have been a more obvious “I’m Back!” moment.
For Roger, although the more he can extend his slam count, the harder it will be for Rafa/Novak to pass him, I think that a win tomorrow would be much more of a personal achievement of his rivalry with Rafa as opposed to a historical achievement. Just some interesting stats for him: If he manages to beat Rafa tomorrow it would level their non-clay overall head to head at 10-10, he would lead Rafa 3-2 in non-clay Slam finals, and he would level their non-clay best-of-five h2h at 4-4. And although that might not mean much to the average tennis fan, it could at least give Fed a sense that in the end he was able to at least hang with Rafa overall when it wasn’t clay. But even more than any of that stuff, I think the biggest thorn in Fed’s side has been his inability to beat Rafa in a non-clay slam for nearly the last DECADE. If he was FINALLY able to beat Rafa at a slam again, I really think it could help change the way he views their rivalry. And although I don’t definitively like one guy more than the other, I certainly have always been disappointed that Fed hasn’t been able to get through this match-up more at slams, especially in Australia. As long as that mental block is present for Fed when he plays Rafa at slams, it’s just never going to happen for him…
Kevin, I used to be a regular poster here a few years ago. And while I’m a Nadal fan, I quit posting for two reasons: while it has gotten much better, sometimes this site used to be militantly pro Nadal, and even Nadal fans got accused of not being the right kind of Nadal fans by some posters. That Nadal went AWOL for long stretches of the last two seasons didn’t help my motivation, either of course 😉
Anyway, I wanted to tell you that I like your posts a lot! And I was shocked, too, about the extent of Rafa’s slump, especially his apparent mental decline. Even if it had a lot to do with his physical woes, it was so unlike everything we have observed during his long career. Therefore I also regard a win tomorrow as more significant for Nadal than for Fed, who has never been absent in the same way as Rafa in the last three years.
Both will know tomorrow that they won’t have many more shots at a big title. That will add extra spice. While Rafa has been playing well again, I don’t think he would’ve won against Novak just yet;and Roger might not have won against Andy, although his chances would probably have been better than Rafa’s against Novak.
I haven’t the foggiest idea who will win tomorrow 🙂
Littlefoot great post and Kevin too.
Fast court, crowd support, confidence (yes confidence) and consistency favours Roger.
Tenacity, h2h, night match, matchup and fighting spirit refusal to die favours Rafa.
This one is completely unpredictable.
A Fed win gives him 18 four more than his closest rivals and his first win over Rafa in a slam in 10 years since Rafa just turned 20 after five straight losses.
A win by Rafa after a 2.5 year struggle for 15 slams to put him within two of Fed combined with his dominance of Fed solidifies Rafa for me.
The winner determines Monday’s GOAT ? IMO.
Both amazing champions of the sport.
Hi, Hawkeye/stradamus 🙂
Yes, tomorrow we will have a goat… at least for a while,but maybe forever. Novak could still catch up, although it would be more difficult if Roger increases his slam talley.Rumor has it that Novak fans are therefore mostly pulling for Rafa tomorrow.
As far as goat status is on the line, Roger has a bit more to lose than Rafa IMO, because Roger winning another slam would only solidify his present goat status quo, while a win by Rafa would definitely challenge it seriously. And his goat status would continue to be under attack by Novak and Rafa.
As to both players’ astonishing comeback: great stuff! I can’t remember anything quite like it in the history of tennis or other sports.
That’s a big part of what makes tennis so great.
A fedfan asked me who I thought would win and I said I’m not unlike many seimicrazed and superstitious fans and he is the same.
We both like to insure against possible disappointments by picking against our favourites.
That said, during the first week I said this is Fed’s AO to win unless Rafa somehow made it to the final at which point I would pick Rafa.
Right now, I am refusing to make any prediction. I’m freaked out. I haven’t been able to enjoy Rafa’s matches until they are over sometimes even not watching. I think the last few years watching Rafa struggle with his mental strength and focus has given me a form of tennis PTSD. It used to be that I could enjoy Rafa’s matches while being nervrous because he would almost always find solutions but he’d lost that ability in recent years. He is finally starting to to that again.
Welcome back littlefoot.
Vamos Rafa!!!!!
That’s a big part of what makes tennis so great.
A fedfan asked me who I thought would win and I said I’m not unlike many seimicrazed and superstitious fans and he is the same.
We both like to insure against possible disappointments by picking against our favourites.
That said, during the first week I said this is Fed’s AO to win unless Rafa somehow made it to the final at which point I would pick Rafa.
Right now, I am refusing to make any prediction. I’m freaked out. I haven’t been able to enjoy Rafa’s matches until they are over sometimes even not watching. I think the last few years watching Rafa struggle with his mental strength and focus has given me a form of tennis PTSD. It used to be that I could enjoy Rafa’s matches while being nervrous because he would almost always find solutions but he’d lost that ability in recent years. He is finally starting to to that again.
Welcome back littlefoot.
Vamos Rafa!!!!!
Wow, I just spotted this great article and I couldn’t have written it any better…
Far more on the line than an Aussie Open trophy for Federer, Nadal
The two tennis legends had just booked their ninth Grand Slam final date, but this one transcends the silverware as both men are playing for their legacies in what’s easily the most important final they’ve ever contested.
And Andy Roddick, who was named to the International Tennis Hall of Fame earlier this week, would argue it goes even further than that: He insists this could be the most important Grand Slam final anyone has ever played.
Fellow Hall of Famer Pam Shriver doesn’t disagree.
“This could be the match that a lot of people use to decide who really is the greatest of all time,” Shriver said Saturday. “Does Roger win this magical one at 35? Or does Rafa add to his ridiculous head-to-head edge and narrow the gap?”
Federer, who has won a record 17 Grand Slam titles, currently leads Nadal’s 14, but that’s about the only number on Federer’s side.
Either man can win. Whoever does can further alter the Best Ever argument.
Like Roddick and Shriver, Tennis Channel analyst Mary Carillo also believes the Greatest of All-Time debate remains open. And both Carillo and Shriver dismiss the idea that the major total should be the determinative factor if Federer finishes with a couple more than Nadal.
“I have said and argued with John McEnroe and Ted Robinson during our French Open telecasts for many years that you cannot anoint Roger Federer the greatest of all time if he isn’t the greatest of his own time,” Carillo said in Melbourne on Saturday. “And it’s not just on red clay. Nadal has the edge on hard courts as well. Like in boxing, it’s all about the matchup. When Roger is playing at his luminous best he has no need to worry about the other side of the net.
“But if he is playing Nadal, even his best is often not enough.”
That last line is the most damning argument against Federer.
Nadal has a 23-11 edge in their head-to-head rivalry, including a 6-2 lead in Slam finals. As Shriver says: “Rafa is so far ahead in the head-to-head if he wins tomorrow, to me 17 to 15 [majors] doesn’t mean a whole lot. … Rafa would also now have two career Grand Slams [two wins at every major]. Roger doesn’t. And Rafa has played all of his career — all of it — in an era with Andy Murray, Roger and Novak Djokovic there the whole time. Roger snuck the first six or seven Slams of his career in before all that happened.”
So why aren’t more people already campaigning for Nadal to be considered best ever?
“People conflate [Federer’s] beauty with supremacy and blur the line between high art and [Nadal’s] impossible-to-ignore domination,” Carillo says. “I think Roger Federer is the most stylish, elegant and gifted tennis player I’ve ever seen. Roger is all that is right in this tennis world. Rafa Nadal is his perfect rival — powerful, explosive, gritty and gutsy.”
It looked all but settled once upon a time.
It isn’t any more.
http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/18570743/australian-open-far-more-line-australian-open-trophy-roger-federer-rafael-nadal
fair points, but I don’t think a match between 2 guys past their prime should have more importance than a lot of matches played during their primes.
that being said, numbers wise it is hard to argue this deciding the GOAT. 18 to 14 is a gap that cannot be argued. But 17 to 15 is basically a tie, and Nadal would also be the only one to win all four TWICE. For me, that’s a better resume.
Exactly. Nobody is saying this match is more important than anything. It’s more about what a win would mean to how their cumulative resumes would compare. Four slam difference is huge to overcome with other accomplishments but two more 17 vs 15 not so much.
Thanks Littlefoot, I appreciate it! Probably about a year and a half ago, when Rafa was in the middle of his slump, that was when I started reading this site more regularly. I was definitely amazed at how dramatic and seemingly anti-tennis it got on the Rafa-related posts. Sometimes it would devolve into posters just making personal attacks at each other, completely unrelated to tennis. Then would sort of divide into factions. Someone would defend someone, and people would attack that person for defending someone. On one hand, it seemed so childish that adults were fighting over who is or is not the bigger Rafa fan. But on the other hand, I realized that they were probably in-fighting because they care about Rafa so much and were desperate to figure out why their guy, who was so reliably great for so long, was suddenly struggling so much by his standard. I hesitated for so long to join in because I felt so alienated. I felt like if I said anything about anyone besides Rafa, or said anything that wasn’t 100% pro-Rafa, that I would be ostracized or considered invalid in some way.
I am glad to say, however, that the intense in-fighting and anti-Anybody-not-named-Rafa seems to have largely gone away. I’m really happy that lots of other new posters like myself have joined in as well. I’m especially happy because where so live, I never have A SINGLE person to discuss professional tennis with because nobody cares about it at all. So I couldn’t be happier to be able to share my love of tennis with others who love it, too!
littlefoot,
It’s great to see you here posting again! I hope you will stay. I read both your comment and Kevin’s with interest.
In watching the replay of Rafa’s match with Dimi yesterday, there was one moment in the fifth set that caught my attention. It was when Rafa had a tough service game early in the fifth set. That made it 2-2. But it was Rafa’s reaction after he held that got me. Even the espn commies noticed it. Rafa was pumped and he started shaking his head back and forth and screaming at himself with such raw intensity. They even played it in slow motion and that made it more remarkable to watch. I have seen Rafa do this in tough matches in the past. The 2013 RG semifinal with Novak comes to mind. Also the 2013 USO final again with Novak.
Rafa did the same thing in that fifth set of the 2013 RG semifinal. He was given a break early on and at one point before he served, he started shaking his head vigorously and pumping his fist and stomping with his feet. Then he unleashed some of the best pure tennis I have ever seen him play to win that match. He did it at the USO final to steal the second set. The same thing with nodding his head and pumping his fist.
That is the real Rafa. When I saw him do it again in the fifth set this time, I realized that this was what has been missing with Rafa for most of the last two years. It’s like he is just refusing to lose. He shakes his head as if to say – no matter what, I am not losing this match! No way!
That is the greatness of Rafa. The DTL forehand, the movement, the cc backhand and the net game are all part of it, but it is that singular moment when he just digs in and will not allow himself to lose. That Rafa is back this week and that is why he is in the final.
Well put nny.
That might hopefully be the difference tomorrow.
Great points Kevin.
Yes the double career slam means a lot to Rafa, he has been unlucky few times in past..hope he gets it this time
Keep calm, stay focused, remain confident, be strong and fight courageously, Rafa!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3ILTnGXEAAZqph.jpg
#ExtendingTheOliveBranchings
#Solidarity
#BEL15VE
Its not really relevant at the moment, but possibly, the likes of Rafa, Roger and others will probably take heart from Istomin beating Novak now going forward, as i dont buy that Rafa never will beat Novak again, if one thing this GS has proved is that anything can happen in the world of sport ….
AndyMira Roger has a good chance of getting number 18, but the chances of Rafa getting another AO will only get harder if he doesnt do it this year, he has to wait another 12 months to try again, Roger has another plenty more chances to get number 18 though, another AO for Rafa will mean a second career GS, where as another FO, W or USO would be awesome dont get me wrong, but another AO would be more significant, due to the history it would make ….
Hey Alison…Yeah..agree with all u said…Rafa has been through so many dark moments at AO in the past…he’s already stated that the loss to wawa in 2014 is the most hardest in his career…so i think,personally he wants to do his best this time since he’s been given a 2nd chance to make it right..and knowing rafa..i think he will give his all this afternoon Alison…You’re already read what i wrote on TX yes?That’s what make me so eager to watch this match…what Rog would do to overcome his biggest nemesis?What would Rafa do to prevent an attack from Rog?,and Rog sure will use all his weapon to sneak attack rafa…but i still believe that rafa will prevail in the end..insyaallah!..The longer match goes on,the high chance rafa will get…
Silence before the storm…one moment I feel confident, encouraged and convinced Rafa would win tomorrow to make history…next thing I start remembering disappointing losses Rafa had, his inconsistency in the last few years, his mental lapses and I am all doubtful about tomorrow…do not want to make predictions…can’t comment here because every word I write would feel like personal betrayal or jinx…
I just want so bad for Rafa to win tomorrow: for his sake as he deserves it after everything he’s been through, for RG sake as Rafa winning AO would mean our Rafa was back and would make a serious contender for the 10th in Paris, and for tennis sake as he would prove that one can overcome all the injuries and all the falls to rise to the top again..,
Fed is great champion, he is Maestro of tennis and I admire his achievements…even if he lost tomorrow he would remain to be GOAT material…I do not think tomorrow’s match determines who the goat is.,.no way!
I believe this title would mean more to Rafa than to Fed..,it would make wonders to Rafa’s confidence and his 2017 season, and therefore to his overall career…
Vamos Rafa!
Hey natashao…here’s for u…
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http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i-w600/keep-calm-and-believe-in-miracles-73.jpg
?❤