Roger Federer has won a fair share of epic Grand Slam matches throughout his illustrious career. He has lost more than a few instant classics, as well.
There’s the 2008 Wimbledon final, the 2010 U.S. Open semifinals, and the 2011 U.S. Open semifinals to name several that fall into the latter category.
This time around, in Sunday’s Wimbledon final, it looked like Federer was going to be on the right side of history against the opponent who beat him in those two aforementioned U.S. Open thrillers. Coming off a semifinal win over Rafael Nadal, his conqueror in the 2008 Wimbledon title match, Federer had every reason to take down world No. 1 Novak Djokovic.
The 37-year-old outperformed his Serbian rival in just about every statistical category: more aces, fewer double-faults, higher first-serve percentage, more first-serve points won, more second-serve points won, more net points won in terms of both quantity and effectiveness, more break points won and with a better conversion rate, more winners, and more total points. Only in unforced errors did Djokovic check a single box.
Federer also served for the match at 8-7 in the fifth set and had two championship points at 40-15 and 40-30. It was all right there for the Swiss to give himself–and a raucous, pro-Federer crowd–a 21st Grand Slam title, his ninth at the All-England Club.
Instead, another Wimbledon coronation for Federer became U.S. Open deja vu.
Djokovic saved two match points, just as he had in the two semifinals at Flushing Meadows, and clawed his way to a 7-6(5), 1-6, 7-6(4), 4-6, 13-12(3) triumph that needed four hours and 57 minutes to be completed.
It was the longest final in Wimbledon history. Interestingly, it surpassed the 2008 final on the first point of the historic, first-ever fifth-set singles tiebreaker when the clock hit four hours and 49 minutes.
Eight minutes later, it was finally all over–leaving everyone inside the most famous court in tennis unsure how to react. Djokovic’s celebration was muted, Federer was stunned, the Centre Court crowd crushed.
In his press conference, the second-seeded runner-up was asked about how he recovers from a defeat such as this one.
“Similar to getting broken when serving for the match,” he noted. “Take it on your chin, you move on. You try to forget, try to take the good things out of this match. There’s just tons of it. Like similar to ’08 maybe, I will look back at it and think, ‘Well, it’s not that bad after all.’ For now, it hurts–and it should, like every loss does here at Wimbledon.
“I think it’s a mindset. I’m very strong at being able to move on because I don’t want to be depressed about actually an amazing tennis match.”
While experiencing emotions at the complete other end of the spectrum, Djokovic agreed with his rival’s assessment of what had just taken place.
“It was probably the most demanding, mentally most demanding, match I was ever part of,” the 16-time major champion admitted. “I had the most physically demanding match against Nadal in the (2012) finals of Australia that went almost six hours. But mentally this was (a) different level, because of everything.
“I was one shot away from losing the match, as well. This match had everything. It could have gone easily his way.”
Could have…. Really should have, to be fair…. And it would have, with just one more point in the 16th game of the deciding set.
‘Could have, should have, would have….’ It’s a phase we hear often in tennis, a sport with impossibly small margins. Perhaps never have those margins been smaller than they were on Sunday in yet another Djokovic-Federer classic.
https://www.theringer.com/2019/7/14/20693870/novak-djokovic-roger-federer-wimbledon-final-2019
Nice article on Novak
Almost 100 winners, 45 more than Novak. Why didn’t he bring them in the decisive moments?
Still hurts. I hope Fed is okay.
Read this in a YouTube comment:
While NATO was bombing Belgrade all schools were closed and, as a kid,
Djokovic took time to play tennis while others were hiding in shelters.
He wrote, in “Serve to Win,” published by Ballantine, “We’d go to the site of the most recent attacks, figuring that if they bombed one place yesterday, they probably wouldn’t bomb it today.”
Now imagine how tough this guy is.
Well, I thought about karma yesterday. To what the west have done to his country. But that’s to deep.
What NATO did to Serbia was monstrous and cowardly at the same time, bombing from very high altitude so that they didn’t lose a single pilot, while killing thousands of Serbian civilians.
I don’t know about karma, but it’s hard to believe that those experiences had no effect on Novak’s resilience. No question that he’s the mentally toughest player out there.
Of course Joe. He was exposed to danger from a little kid. That had a huge impact on his mental side.
Perspective is vital. Makes one understand the bigger picture and 2 missed match points on one’s serve seem unimportant compared to what happens daily to some poor people on our lovely planet.
You make it look as if it was NATO that was the invader and doing the ethnic cleansing of thousands…
Monstrous and cowardly you say.. tell that to the Albanians
Good guys and bad guys weren’t that clearcut in that war. Many atrocities have been committed during the breakup of former Yugoslavia, and the NATO had some justification for their actions. But specifically the bombing of Belgrade with the city’s large civil population was very iffy.
It’s interesting to contemplate how these events may haveshaped Novak’s oncourt mentality. While it’s tempting to connect the dots, it’s maybe not that straightforward. Novak was anything but a fighter and mental giant when his early career started to take off. He was known to be a hypochonder and a quitter. Roddick famously teased him about this. Only after he changed his diet and started to take up mental exercises he became a mental giant.
As to the match against Fed: it wasn’t all about Novak’s mental resilience. Fed helped him a lot to win this match. Managing to lose three tie-breaks, losing the serve while serving for the match and squandering three matchpoints – maybe, this had more to do with Fed’s mistakes and nerves. The stars truly aligned for Novak this year with one of the cup-cakiest walks into a final I have ever witnessed and with an opponent who managed somehow to squander a match which he should definitely have won in so many ways – but somehow managed to lose nevertheless. This should not diminish Novak’s overall slam performances over the past year which has been perfect.
There is no doubt that Djokovic is a fighter and a mentally strong player. But I think this win makes him mental side appear bigger and scariest than it is.
What’s the probability that Fed will lose his serve game at 40:15 against Djoko in general? Like out of 100 samples, chosing one randomly, it’s about 10% (I think much less, but let’s say 10%). Then what’s the probability that in a few more games he will miss a bp at net against Novak? It’s about 50-50. It’s the point Joe mentioned. I think from a sample of 100, he would win 55-60. Let’s say half in our example. Then what’s the probability combined he loses that double game point and then loses the bp at the net: 0.5*0.1= 5%. I don’t believe so much in luck, but events occur randomly and develop long term patterns. For people that believe in luck, he was unlucky. His stars were in vacation during the match. He picked 1 if those 5 losing tickets from 95 winning ones that evening. Why? I don’t know. Not everything depends on us I guess. And we have to accept that fact.
The fact he’s 6 years older would be a good reason if he lost clearly to a better player. But not here. He overplayed his opponent. Even at 45 he could still close the match at 40:15.
My question here is not about tennis. But how to deal with uncertainty. One a better player wins deservedly, we assume he was a weaker player of he loses. But that’s not always true either in boxing, football, tennis etc. You know very well we can’t blame age here or praise Djokovic mental strength. When somebody hits an ace, your mental strength accept it, but not stop the ace.
I guess that’s why many (not all) people ar religious. I guess there are some questions they don’t have answers to and start believing in a Higher Power. For them Djoko’s win is a part of God’s plan even if we don’t see yet the big picture.
What about people who don’t believe in God? Isn’t it scary that something happens just randomly? Not according to rules, morals, despite your hard work etc.
Writing this makes me feel less stressful.
Rafa has no problem believing that the outcome of close matches sometimes depends on “luck” or randomness. Sometimes he just says something like “[AO2012] was for him (Djoko), this one was for me [RG 2013]. He said something similar comparing his loss to Djoko at the Wimbledon semi last year to his very close win over Thiem in the quarters of the USO. That’s sports. You prepare the best you can, you go out and play, but sometimes it’s so close it literally comes down the way the ball bounces. Accepting we do not live in a totally deterministic universe is the way to keep your sanity.
No question that part of the result of the match was pure luck, but that’s true in any match. It was clear to me that Fed played more tentatively on the big points than he did in most of the match, and that was the difference. Even the, Novak had to come up with huge shots in the biggest points, like he did with the pass down 30-40, match point. Setting luck aside, Djokovic came up with the goods when it counted; Fed just didn’t. Roger had too many chances to chalk it all up to luck.
Losing 4 points in a row couldn’t be all bad luck he was tentative IMO
Actually it totally could be bad luck, just unusual. Throwing 4 heads in a row in a coin toss isn’t all that uncommon.
In that case Big Al, he should train less, he already knows how to play best tennis, and instead visit a food psychologists and try to overcome his anxiety over Djoko (which probably began after those 2mp missed at US). If he played as freely as he used to to against Roddick, the match would finish at 3:1.
A *good psichologist.
Posts here are not giving Nole enough credit. God, if there is one, doesn’t intervene in a tennis match. That’s ridiculous. Like all those teams that pray before a match that they will win, as if they are special and deserve such a thing. That’s not how it works. There’s no magic tricks or favors from the universe. Balderdash.
If Rafa had beaten Federer in the final similarly, by sneaking out the win in the tb’s, an area Federer normally excels, people would just strike it up to Rafa out maneuvering Fed. There would not be so much angst about it.
Federer could not take his chances when he had them. Nole watches his opponents very carefully. Maybe Federer not quite as much because he likely figured he had this match – his serve is superior. It’s a pity he lost when he should have won. But I could say the same for Roddick in 2009.
Other matches have frustrated me. Rafa beat Verdasco in 2009 AO SF but Verdasco had more points and I thought he was the better player, in general. Rafa stung him on the biggest points. At that time I thought for sure Federer would win the final but his back failed and Federer couldn’t serve or keep up with Rafa by the 5th set. Rafa outlasted everybody! Then I hated when Federer cried and as I thought then, ruined the trophy ceremony. It’s taken a lot of time for Federer to accept losing a GS final anywhere near gracefully, imo. Serena was finally graceful losing to Simona this year. But she acted all weird and embarrassing (to me) losing to Osaka at US Open 2018.
Federer didn’t hesitate when asked what the first thing he would do after the match. He sternly replied he was going to “forget it” meaning literally put it out of his mind. No tears, nothing- just get it out! And by now, I believe he can do it. He has to if he wants to continue to win in a GS final vs Nole or Rafa, anyway. Roger seemed irked enough to forget it – I believe he will. This time I was proud of how Roger handled it.
I hope he recovers and goes for it at US Open, AO, and Wimbledon. FO is a ridiculous prospect as long as Rafa is in the game.
ratcliff, I agree with you wholeheartedly that there is – at least in my world view – no tennis deity or Wimby fairy who cruelly intervened and denied Roger the title. Roger managed to lose this match all by himself and Novak won without help from braven. I also agree that Novak often doesn’t get the credit he deserves for his mi
often astonishing achievements. However, I’m neither a fan of Novak nor of Roger – I don’t know if that makes me more impartial or not – but I have a hard time to say that Novak really was the deserved winner of this year’s title. He was of course insofar as he won all points fair and square without any iffy umpire decisions. And he managed to do what all the other six players, Rafa included, could not so: win against a great playing Fed. But it feels strange nevertheless.
But in the end all titles count, and there’s no reason for Novak’s fans not to enjoy this title. He has proven often enough that he is able to win even the most difficult matches. And this was certainly a very difficult match and he was the one who managed to get through. That’s all.
Correction: that should read :”…without help from heaven…
It’s okay Littlefoot. Most people, at least speaking and writing in the English language do not think Novak is not worthy compared to Fed and Rafa. And why: He’s nothing special, he’s a machine, he’s uncouth and barbaric. I’ve heard and read all of those things in English. I can’t read Chinese but I’ve read other Novak fans saying how much he is appreciated there. And he is treated with love and respect there.
I can’t say the same for the crowd at US Open or Wimbledon. I’m so proud how Novak handled the boo’s and the lack of respect when he won. There are a lot of xenophobes in my country and I do think there is reason to believe xenophobia plays its part in the turning Novak into a villian, just as Lendl was and Martina, and Seles were back in their day.
Perhaps it plays into how strongly I support Novak at this time. But honestly, he won me over with his mind and skill. I did not start appreciating him until 2010 US Open. I didn’t dislike him but I was more done with the Fedal fights by then and just wanted to enjoy tennis – all tennis. I was happy and relieved when Delpo won US Open 2009. And it was glorious to me in 2011 when Novak really began to believe in himself and dominate. Also was a fan of Andy Murray, so many of his losses stung at the hands of Novak.
Anyways, I see Nole’s athleticism, intelligence, skill every bit as fantastic and charming as Rafa and Roger. I’m happy he’s pushing in on their territory. I love Nole. Roger and Rafa and tennis needs him, imo. Tennis would not be as interesting or exciting without him. It takes all three (preferably four, when Andy was part of it) to make tennis so great in the ATP.
Of course, WTA has always been great 😀
Sorry, I got my words twisted in that first sentence..It should read:
…most people, at least the ones speaking and writing in the English language do not think Novak is worthy compared to Fed and Rafa.
I just have to correct the misinformation. about Fed having any back problems in the 2009 AO final. Fed had by far the easier semifinal and had an extra day of rest. Fed had every advantage going into that final. Even now I still am amazed that Rafa found a way to win it. One of the most courageous feats in tennis. Rafa even said that he was a bit dizzy at times because of fatigue and only one day of rest after that brutal semifinal with Verdasco. I remember Rafa struggling at one point and getting someone to come out and rub his leg during the change over. I thought at that point that maybe he would not be able to do it. I still do not know where he found the strength to go five sets and ultimately triumph.
There was nothing wrong with Fed! This idea that he was having back problems and lost because of it, is simply not accurate. Don’t try to demean Rafa’s achievement by talking about some imaginary back problem with Fed.
No. Nny,
I apologize if you took what I said for an opportunity to demean Rafa’s achievement of winning AO 2009. Not at all, and I remember cringing at the trophy ceremony when Fed couldn’t stop crying. That felt like he was distracting the moment of Rafa’s win.
In 2014 wasn’t Rafa carrying an injury when Stan won the AO?
I just remember reading something about that – like I remember reading about Federer’s back in 2009. Also it did appear that his serve was not working in the 5th set so I have believed it- Fed was having chronic back issues in his early career (from what I remember reading). But that doesn’t distract from Rafa’s win. And whatever Rafa’s injury was during AO 2014 doesn’t take away from Stan’s win. However it does help explain the shock and surprise I felt at Stan beating Rafa. I wouldn’t doubt that something was wrong with Rafa in that final.
So sorry Nny. I don’t discount any of Rafa’s achievements.
It was a back injury for Rafa in the Final of AO 2014.
https://sites.google.com/a/nadalwin.com/mallorcans/team-roster-and-stats/2014/australian-open-2014
As I said, I believe it.
Tennis requires mental strength that allows the best to execute when it matters at the tightest moments.
That’s what wins slams.
I hear all this rubbish about Nole wanting to be loved as much as Roger which is rubbish. He’s looking for respect which would start by fans not openly cheering loudly on double faults and obvious unforced errors. The crowds even openly cheer against him vs other players in hopes that he’s eliminated to open the draw for Federer.
All true Hawk.
It’s very sad and the way Nole is treated at this point in his career actually hurts me. Appreciation and respect would be enough. But it is downright mean for him to do his best and be hated not loved and appreciated or respected for it.
Ratcliff, he is not hated. Come on, people respect Novak.
ratcliff, I agree with you that Novak deserves every bit as much appreciation for his extraordinary tennis skills as Roger and Rafa. And boos because he is beating the darling of the masses are of course totally out of line. I also thought that many journos seemed to mourn more Roger’s loss instead of celebrating Novak’s string of successes at the slams. Personally I believe that he has a very good chance to better Rafa’s and maybe even Roger’s slam count. However, no tennis fan can be forced to love him, since this kind of fandom is sort of irrational. And Novak may have to accept that the majority of the European and American Fans prefer Fedal. Outside of GB Andy Murray wasn’t exactly a crowd pleased either. But I think there are plenty of tennis fans in Novak’s own country and elsewhere in the world who appreciate and love what he has to offer. Therefore it’s probably better for him to settle for fairness, respect and appreciation. As I said: love and adoration cannot be forced.
What Eugene? What I’ve seen at US Open and Wimbledon is far from respect. And I’ve read plenty of hate online and in the media. Sheesh
As Littlefoot says, I can’t do anything about it. But I will state my opinion here. Just as you do. And I disagree with you – Fed fans on these blogs don’t usually give a shit about Fed opponents being disrespected – an alien concept to a Fedfan mind. It’s all about Fed.
Federer I respect. Fed fans tho, they are often hard to like.
rc,
I had no knowledge of a back injury with Fed. But I think I came down too hard on you. I did not mean to do that. I am sorry for being too harsh.
I know that it’s been hard for you here with the disrespect for Novak. If you read my posts I tried to be fair to both him and Fed. I can be more objective if Rafa is not involved.
I have been frustrated with some of the comments here. I think that Novak deserved it. He won three tiebreaks against Fed. That is not an accident! He was tough in the big moments in the match. He has this uncanny ability to raise his level of play when the match is on the line.
I think Novak’s mental strength is what helps him win matches like this. I tried to give both of them credit. But Fed had his chance to win. He did not get it done. People can keep saying that Fed had it in his racket, that Fed was the better player, that Fed deserved to win. But the fact is that he was not better in those tiebreaks.
I respect Novak’s effort. I especially dislike the crowd being so supportive of Fed. It’s happened before when they played. Sometimes it gets out of hand when they play, like cheering for double faults or errors. Fed had the crowd with him all the way in that fifth set. They seemed to want to will him to win. But it was not enough.
You should be happy for your guy.
NNY, Rafa had actually similar acceptance problems throughout his career, and he had to deal with sometimes hostile crowds especially in Paris. I think that the French still don’t love him. But they have grudgingly accepted that Rafa at the FO is simply a force of nature which comes over them very regularly every spring for almost 15 years now and they have learned to live with this phenomenon☺ But Rafa doesn’t seem to need the adoration of the masses as much. He always seems to be in his own oncourt-world and accepts when an opponent is more popular than he is. It doesn’t seem to affect how he plays.
Thank you, Nny.
And it’s true, Rafa handled the adversity and rude crowd in Paris like a true pro and champion.
Murray said he used negative crowds to his advantage by playing better.
It’s been harder for Nole to find that strength without ripping his shirt or something or going nuts.
McEnroe was a natural at using negativity to his advantage.
I’m happy for Nole, littlefoot.
Sorry about my defensiveness today.
Yeah…agree with hawks..
Novak received unfairly treatment his entire life…
Remember at AO 17?He played 2 or 3 straight day matches under the scorching heat..and Rog played 6 or 7 straight matches at the evening!
I think the crowds is part to blame everytime Roger lose…They shouldn’t cheer Rog all the time & they shouldn’t cheer Novak error’s too..coz all that s$%t stuff only fuelled Novak even more…What Novak said the other day?”When they chanting Roger’s name,i pretend they said my name”…But sorry to say Fedfans never learned their mistake…The wounded animal is very dangerous u know…
Ive a lot of like and respect for Nole but just prefer Fed and Murray .
Eugene, I agree with you that Novak’s mental strength may seem more impressive and important than it actually was. This was really more about Fed having some mental lapses and losing all the big points, than Novak winning it. Of course, Novak needed to hang in and he couldn’t afford to make any mistakes at crucial moments, and he never gave up. But still – Fed really should’ve won this match. There’s no good explanation for losing three tie-breaks in a row – at least not for a player like Fed on grass, where he is a brilliant server. And the new 5th set tie-break rule should’ve been advantageous for a strong server like Roger!
I don’t know if the knowledge that Fed really should’ve won this match and was the better player over long periods, makes this loss easier or more difficult to digest….
And the loss at the end of this epic match cannot really be compared to the lost final against Rafa in 2008. In that match Fed had been already trailing 0-2 when he started to catch up by playing occasionally brilliant tennis, and he was never really on the verge of winning that match, while it would’ve been devastating for Rafa if he had managed to lose this. And Rafa was the one who squandered a few match points before eventually securing the win. There was never the vibe of “oh, Fed should really have won this since he was so much better”. It was more a case of: “oh well, kudos to Roger for trying everything and not giving up, but in the end Rafa deserved his first Wimby title”. This year I cannot say wholeheartedly that Novak deserved the trophy. This is totally irrelevant for the big picture of course, and statistically there are no undeserved or deserved slam titles.
A lot of analysis to explain why Fed couldn’t serve just one more ace ! It was totally down to him
But,in a way,it was down to Nole too why Rog couldn’t serve it out,right?
Nerves & mental block at crucial moments…I think if at the other end is Rafa or other player,i don’t think Rog had a same problem…That’s my honest thought…
Yes of course, there were a lot more points in the match that could have gone either way and Fed might never have got those two points.But since he just served two aces it’s hard to say he didn’t choke a little .In other words,maybe Nole does play the big points better.
Yeah Big Al…That’s the reality….Nole ALWAYS play big points better than Rog & Rafa(after his 2015 slump episodes that is)…
https://youtu.be/H5y1nbovoMY
Eerie similarities of 2009 and 2019 match points
It’s a very interesting discussion here, and I realize how few dedicated Novak-fans frequent this site! Again: congrats to every single one of them☺
Fans of an athlet are a special breed. And while they don’t really show up here, Novak has a flock of pretty obnoxious fans, too😉 – especially, when strong nationalistic undertones creep in.
My preference for Rafa developed originally many years ago because I couldn’t stand anymore the fawning adoration of fans and also many tennis journalists for Federer. I specifically hated the concept of Federer as a religious experience, since this idea is so disrespectful towards Fed’s opponents. It’s as if Federer’s way of playing tennis is a force of good and beauty which ultimately needs to prevail. And this is balderdash IMO. Yes, Fed’s tennis can be very beautiful. But a competitive sport isn’t like ballet. There are many ways to play and win a tennis match, and beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. And when this teenager called Rafa came along, who dared to challenge the hacking order, while playing tennis very differently and in a completely unique way,I thought that this was a breath of much needed fresh air and saved tennis from becoming completely boring and predictable. Who would’ve thought at the time that Rafa would evolve into a brilliant allrounder and last long enough for becoming a serious contender for the GOAT throne, which seemed to be reserved and just waiting for Fed? Many fans and journos eventually adapted their world view and the concept of Fedal as a force of good emerged. And then Novak came along and challenged this concept, too, lol! This wasn’t in the script, and that may be one of several explanations why Novak wasn’t able to win over the majority of tennis fans. There’s more to it than that, of course, and Novak isn’t completely blameless in the matter.
In the end it’s all just tennis – a beautiful sport, but there are more important things in the world, than who wins or loses a tennis match, and at least IMO religion should stay out of sports altogether.
As a Fed fan, the positive takeaway from this match for me is that Federer outplayed the two top players in the world, 5-6 years his junior, in consecutive matches. Yes, he only won one of them. And I don’t think anyone would say that either Nadal or Djokovic were at their best for those matches. But I would chalk that up mostly to Fed’s incredible play. He just has to keep plugging away, and I think he has a good chance to win one of the next two slams.
Joe, I know Fed is different than me. But after losing a few matches on the edge against Djokovic in the past, I would focus a lot on how NOT to repeat the same mistakes. Maybe I would have done some mental exercise, prepare my mind on how to react on those critical points before I step into the court. Why he didn’t learn anything from that?
It looks like against Nadal, Fed can play relatively free nowadays, but not with Djoko.
Also, in his defense I will repeat this many times. The fact that 90% wanted him to wim and cheered Novak’s double mistakes, didn’t help him at all. It only added huge pressure on a tired body and exhausted emotions coming from a difficult SF. On a neutral field, he would’ve won 3:1. Sometimes is better to be the ‘undesirable’ so of you win, it’s a bonus, if you don’t- anyway everyone was against you.
I’m very surprised at how good Fed was this year. He lost against Tsitsi, but still played well. Then he won a master on hard. RG was a success too. Not anyone can reach the SF there. The grass season was almost perfect. Fed is a monster. Constantly showing up in the QF, SF or finals of a grand slam. I miss Andy. Imagine Andy-Novak and Rafa – Fed at this Wimby SF.
Hi Joe, I respectfully disagree about fed. There’s nothing positive about this match with Djoko at all. If one loses two championship points once to a rival, That’s ok and maybe a fluke. Twice, then there’s cause for concern. Three times? Then it’s a pattern.
I’m a fed and Rafa fan. Fed completely outplayed nadal and rightfully won. But against Djoko, he has an issue with Djoko at a slam for almost a decade now apart from French 2011 n wimpy 2012 n it’s not age related at all. He needs to address that. Whether it’s mental or wotever it is, Eugene is right. He needs to address it and fix it ASAP bc it will happen again and again. Djoko is so confident playing against fed these days that I don’t want fed meeting him again at any slam bar the French until he fixes this problem. I’m sorry but it’s becoming too painful for me to watch him blow matches he had no business losing to the point i’m No longer surprised.
I’m more confident about fed beating Rafa on any surface except French than with Djoko. He has some issues with Djoko which he must fix. I say that with all respect to fed bc I believe he’s a better player than djokovic IMHO and is the GOAT. Numbers don’t lie.
Well, he really really helps Djoko become a goat. Instead of 13 – 23 slams, it’s 16-20. 10vs4 difference. How much difference can make not being able to close the match you worked so hard for 4-5 hours.
Agree with both of you that Fed needs to work on focusing in the big points. I think the main thing is not to get tentative and go for his shots. Personally, at 40-15 champ point I would have hit a hard body serve directly at Novak. Fed rarely does that and it would have been a surprise, also likely to come back in the middle of the court. And at second serve I would have gone for a bit more on the serve and then definitely try to hit the approach better. Not play it safe.
Having said that, Fed was literally a couple inches from hitting that first serve over the tape at 40-15, and it looked like it was going right into the T for a 3rd consecutive ace. It was after that that he tightened up, imo.
Nny, I checked the stats of that famous Roddick – Fed at Wimby 2019 , which made feel sorry back then for Roddick. I thought nobody deserved to lose.
I hoped those stats would favour the American and will make me feel better about the recent one…
But not really. Roddick had 74 Winners, 33 UE, 213 total points.
Fed hit 107 winners, 38 UE, 223 total points.
2009, sorry
Eugene,
Thanks so much for providing those stats. I said that I was not able to watch the Djoker match. I just could not do it. I never could get through a replay. I was a Rafa fan by that time, but I initially like Roddick when he first came in the scene. I was still looking for a favorite. No one ever replaced Borg for me. But I was so happy when Roddick won his first USO. I thought it was the beginning of a great career. But Roger Federer came alone and tried as he might, Roddick could not beat him. Before Rafa no one could beat Fed. I just got so frustrated seeing Roddick losing all the time to Fed. I have spoken about it being a big part of why I stopped watching tennis.
Fortunately, in 2007 people around me finally convinced me to watch tennis again to see this young Spanish player named Nadal. It was the 2007 Wimbledon. All I had to do was watch one match and I knew. I had found the second tennis love of my life.
Even though I was a diehard Rafa fan, I really wanted Roddick to win the 2009 Wimbledon. Rafa was injured and could not play. So I was cheering for Roddick to get that second slam. It was unbearable. To see him come so close. I could not watch the end of the match.
I appreciate you looking up those stats. They do not surprise me. It really does bring the reality of it home again.
Many thanks.
😀
Sorry, stupid autocorrect made it Djoker instead of Roddick at the very beginning of my previous post. Djoker makes no sense! It should be Roddick of course.
nny, thanks for the reply.
Fed will retire soon I guess. I have to start looking for a new ‘addiction’ 🙂 He has to play one handed backhand.
Tsitsipas? He plays like a Fed.
I doubt Fed is retiring anytime soon. I mean view this final both negatively and positively; the negative part we’ve spoken about it quite a lot.
The positive part is: Fed at 37 almost 38 could even play at this level, beaten one nemesis and almost beat the other, having the upperhand in almost every area. So, there’s still hope – he may not need to beat both of them B2B, and I feel that it’s at the fast AO HC that Fed may have the upperhand against both his nemesis.
The grass surface seemed a bit slow this year (as attested to by the players, not my opinion), so Djoko even when not playing at his best was still able to get many balls back despite not having a good ROS day. I’ll fancy Fed’s lethal serve on the fast HC of the AO. Also, AO is at the beginning of the year, so Fed will be physically fresh for his then 38 yo body.
I really feel that by the end of 2021, ie 9 slams more into the future, all three of them may end up with 21 slams each!
Fed wins one more AO to get to 21 slams (7 AO, 1FO, 8 Wimbledon, 5 USO). Rafa with 1 AO, 14 FO, 2 Wimbledon, 4 USO. Djoko with 8 AO, 1 FO, 7 Wimbledon, 5 USO.
I still haven’t decided, but Tsitsipas is in pole position, for now. Still need some time to make the decision.
Interesting point of view lucky. Imagine all of them ending with 21 slams each. That would be crazy.
I would love if all three GOAT contenders would end up with the same slam haul☺
Each player deserves to be called GOAT, since they all have achieved something which is almost impossible to be replicated by future players. And they have compiled their phenomenal records while having to compete against each other – which multiplied the difficulty! If the other GOATs hadn’t been around their records would probably be even more incredible.
Funny, how everyone seems to gravitate towards Tsitsipas. Mats Wilander also endorsed him, and predicted a glorious future for the young Greek. However, Mats says a lot of things – and he often contradicts himself two minutes later 😉 Therefore I don’t pay a lot of attention.
I’m not sure which one will do what. I have a lot of hope; particularly like Tsitsipas and FAA, but right now it’s hard to say.
It’s to difficult to tell – just have to wait and see. Right now if feels like forever since I watched them all competing. Many go out too early in tournaments that count most to know how strong they are.
I read that Federer is skipping Montreal. He will aim for Cincinnati and of course US Open.
Hoping the brackets next week have more big names in the draws, both young guns and old favorites: both WTA and ATP.
Found a good post on Tennis-x, (a blog that has enough mean and bullying Novak fans that especially hate and disrespect Federer), that I don’t post there anymore because I don’t like or agree with that Djokovic cult. But Patson rarely posts and when he/she does it’s a breath of fresh air because Patson is part of the good Nole fans that used to post there. Sorry to say the remainder of them are grudge holding cultists with their own narrative that discounts Federer’s accomplishments. And I’m not one that discounts Fed or Rafa. Nole is still catching up to them, even though he’s my favorite of the three, I can admit he needs more time. Long after they all hang up their racquets, and the false narratives created out of emotions and grudges have been thrown out, is the time to name the historical GOAT.
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Patson Says:
Best article I’ve read about the match, and about Djokovic.
https://www.theringer.com/2019/7/14/20693870/novak-djokovic-roger-federer-wimbledon-final-2019
The highlight of the article: “He’s learned to rely on himself because he can’t rely on the crowd. Of course this is all speculation—I can’t see inside Djokovic’s mind—but it has explanatory value during matches like today’s, when he wins in ways that seem to defy all tennis logic. It also has an irony that feels Djokovician in its essence. He wanted us to love him and we didn’t, so he figured out how to overcome us as well as his opponent. We helped him learn to win by wanting him to lose”
That is so poetic.
July 14th, 2019 at 11:34 pm
ratcliff/Elizabeth, thanks! Very astute observation, and to me it is psychologically totally plausible. Reminds me a bit of my younger son who had always a very troubled relationship with his teachers, and both sides we’re at fault. He was one of those bright kids who learned to read and write before he started school. Therefore he was bored out of his mind in his first school years. The teachers didn’t realize initially that he could read and write, and he was too proud to tell them. He started instead to make a lot of trouble. He and all his subsequent teachers started their relationship on the wrong foot and hated each other heartily. Therefore my son decided, the only thing he could do about this, was becoming the best student in as many subjects as possible without having to rely on the sympathy of his teachers, and he succeeded. He used all the negative energy between himself and his teachers and turned it into something positive while relying mostly on himself and his mental resources. It was clearly a case of: “I will show them…!” Who knows – maybe this makes Novak mentally so strong at important points, too!
Why do some people dislike or disrespect Djoko so much?
I dislike him some time back, when after beating Rafa on clay in 2011, his and his team’s celebration were simply disrespectful towards Rafa. Also, after beating Rafa a few times back then to claim his no. 1, he and Tipsy put up a short video clip with Tipsy pointing a gun at Djoko’s head, with a message asking how much Rafa want to pay him (Tipsy, for gunning down Djoko). I thought that was outrageously distasteful, even though they quickly removed that short clip (probably after receiving bombardment from some Rafa’s and some neutral tennis fans).
But, since then, Djoko has matured quite a bit and he’s alright now. He should be given his due respect for what he has achieved so far. I guess it is more to do with the Fedal fans not liking it that he’s threatening Fedal’s legacy, and it seems that Fedal have no way to stop the Djokovic train.
He may end up like a Lendl, a champion but with not many people, relatively speaking, liking him. (I know he has his own legion of fans, perhaps only fewer than Fed’s or Rafa’s among his peers).
Lucky, I agree with your assessment! I’m not a Djoker fan, but he deserves our absolute respect. His achievements are phenomenal. Many Fedal fans simply resent that he is challenging Fed’s and Rafa’s legacy, and that he is coming dangerously close.
I dislike many of the Djoker’s fans, though. They can be very agressive, disrespectful and chauvinistic. They are definitely not my cup of tea. But we should always separate the players from their fans.
Heh. If I judged tennis players based on their online fans I would not like anybody! But it’s not about tennis or fans. Certain posters simply love to hate.
Sorry Luckystar but i disagree with your assessment of djokovic. I think you are wrong when you say some people dont like or disrespect djokovic bc of threatening FEDAL’s legacy. Please give some people some credit and it has nothing to do with his fans. He is a phenomenal tennis player and a case can be made that he may be better than federer and nadal bc he leads them in their head to head.
But saying that he has matured and is alright now is a stretch and you know it. It’s his attitude that’s the problem that rubs people the wrong way. Look at that twitter post he released before this year’s australian open final. Even though he demolished nadal and that was not surprising because many expected him to win but not so easily, still that tweet with that picture was totally unnecessary and disrespectful to nadal. He has not changed that much, much less matured a bit with that kind of tweet. Imagine if nadal behaves like that in the french open final. Nadal has earned the right to be arrogant and dismissive of opponents in the french open given his record but still he remains outrageously humble and very respectful of everybody sometimes to a fault.
This is the same with serena williams. Her attitude at times is truly terrible and even though she’s the GOAT, some people cant stand her bc of her attitude. I’m a big serena fan (she’s my favorite in wta) but even I cant stand or I’m left speechless at times trying to come up with a reasonable way
to defend her attitude and outbursts and there are numerous examples.
So those people do not dislike or disrespect djokovic, they respect his tennis and his achievements but his attitude is nothing to write home about and thats the issue for these people.
I don’t agree with ‘Djokovic deserves more respect’. I respect him, and so do many Fedal fans. So, what more do they expect us to do?
I don’t blame fans at Wimbledon or Miami that cheer for Fed too much (I think that actually puts pressure on him and doesn’t help). Imagine I attend a final between Fed and Djoko. I respect Djoko, don’t make any noise when he double faults but am very happy when Roger wins each point. How’s that disrespectful? Imagine that 85% feel like me. Why blaming and criticizing those people? Being a successful tennis player is not the equivalent with being liked by people. Using those criteria we should adore doctors and pilots, at least they are more useful.
Eugene, not giving more respect, but due respect.
You can’t deny that there were people cheering Djoko’s faults or DFs; those people should be the ones learning to give Djoko his due respect. Those are the people I’m talking about, you do not need to include yourself in that category when you didn’t cheer on Djoko’s faults.
Happy, I don’t follow twitter, not a follower of Djoko’s btw.
At least he had stopped those atrocious distasteful video clips. He has since toned down on his celebrations and gives Fedal their due respect even when he has beaten them in important matches.
I don’t see the need to continue to dislike or disrespect him. If he’s that good or that great that one day he surpasses both Fed and Rafa in his achievements, then we have to applaud him and congratulate him for that, whether we like it or not.
If you still can’t get over Roger’s loss in the Wimby final then read this … http://www.138mph.com/tennis-the-better-player-lost-the-mens-wimbledon-final/
No doubt Federer was the better player overall. But you can’t analyze the match without mentioning that Djokovic played the big points better. Novak was the better player in the tiebreaks, and at many key points elsewhere in the match. You could argue that Federer lost those points more than Djokovic won them, due to Roger’s tentative play. But you can’t deny that Novak was the better player when it counted.
Joe, agree. I believe Fed didn’t manage well his energy. Every player goes through cycles in a match. He gave his best during the sets, but was left to nothing in the tbs. Should have find some ‘rest’ in those sets and preserve some mental energy for the tb, at least for the final one. This was a 3:0 or 3:1 match. Just shows how low the margins are on grass.
I’m not a specialist in courts speed, but if they indeed are making courts slower, they are just destroying this sport.
Maybe the court speed is the underlying reason why Roger tends to be tentative on big points.
Look at his tb against Nadal and then the ones against Djoko. He was totally different. This is very strange. He played as if he knew there is no point to try, he will win it anyway. Very strange. Maybe there is something we don’t know.
I still can’t believe he won 3 sets clearly and lost 3 tbs… Al 3 of them. Winning 1 would’ve been enough.
Sorry for the errors.