Roger Federer beat Rafael Nadal for the first time in their last six meetings and in doing so defended his Swiss Indoors Basel title. Federer prevailed 6-3, 5-7, 6-3 after two hours and two minutes for his seventh Basel triumph.
With a 10-23 lifetime record against his nemesis and playing at home in Switzerland for the first time in the rivalry’s illustrious history, Federer needed a win in the worst way. He came out playing like it, breaking in the fifth game and at love in the ninth game to seize set one in style. The 34-year-old consolidated his initial break with some especially impressive stuff on a break point at 3-2.
Federer saves break point with an amazing forehand pass:
[tweet https://twitter.com/TennisTV/status/660822054137176064]
Nadal finally earned a break of his own at 5-5 in the second. It proved to be enough for the third-seeded Spaniard to force a decider, as he promptly delivered a love hold one game later.
Much to the delight of the pro-Federer crowd, the 17-time Grand Slam champion regained control in set three. Despite missing a break chance at 2-1, he struck decisively at 4-3. Nadal set a backhand well long on break point before Federer survived a deuce game at 5-3 to clinch victory.
The top seed used his SABR tactic three times, succeeding only once.
Federer’s first SABR attempt ends badly:
Highlights:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvwGL-XUwA]
“My fourth time here, finally I get to the finals–so I’m very happy for that,” Nadal said during the trophy ceremony. “Very emotional week; all the matches…a lot of fight. I believe that it’s been a very important week for me, for this year and for the future.”
Both players will now head to the Paris Masters for the last tournament of the proverbial regular season (before the eight-man World Tour Finals). Federer awaits either Andreas Seppi or Pablo Cuevas, while Nadal could open against Lukas Rosol.
[polldaddy poll=9156114]
Your argument is wrong , nats. Fed is above 30 for God’s sake. He is no longer at 100%. Djoko beating him was not a surprise and in no way takes away from Fed’s claim to Grass Goat. If you said Fed needs to be at 100% to beat Djoko on grass, you would be disrespectful to Fed’s grass record but not half as disrespectful as you were to Rafa’s clay record.
no, wrong again! I was thinking of Rafa beating Fed at Wimby, not Novak…the discussions was about Rafa, remember? Or you are saying Fed was less than 100% when he lost to Rafa?
I don’t have to worry about the GOAT discussion for myself, because as far as I am concerned there cannot be a GOAT! That makes life so much simpler. As Rod Laver said, a player can only be the greatest in his era. That makes so much more sense to me.
Reading all of the discussion and the back and forth it just seems that it’s splitting hairs. Novak, Fed and Rafa have each achieved their own records and accomplishments in this sport. I don’t think that Novak is yet at the same status as Fed and Rafa, but he is getting there. If he continues then he will at some point be deserving of being in the same class as Rafa and Fed. But not yet.
I will not be one who shifts loyalties to Novak. I respect his game and what he’s done this year. I don’t think the weak era applies at all. No comparison to the real weak era when Fed faced the likes of Roddick, Safin, Hewitt and Nalby. I think it’s too convenient to chalk up Novak’s results this year to not having enough competition. That’s quite disingenuous.
I will be a Rafa fan all the way until the day he hangs up his racket, which I hope does not happen for a while yet! 🙂
Strange though it might seem, I do believe native loves Rafa and when push comes to shove, hopefully she will abandon the enemy camps she sometimes occupies.
enemy camps?
#Yawn
Mary,
Sorry, but I don’t occupy so-called :”enemy camps”. I am in one camp and always have been. If others want to think differently, then so be it but no one knows what is in my mind, what I think or what I believe.
Appreciating Novak’s game doesn’t make one a fan. There is a difference.
nats
Rafa needed to be at 100% to beat Fed on grass. Given their respective grass records, it would be disrespectful to say Fed needs to be at 100% to beat Rafa or Djoko on grass.
I agree with Mary on the issue of Rafa beating Fed on grass. I also agree that Fed does not have to be at 100% to beat Rafa on grass. I am not even sure that Fed can be at 100% these days on grass. He wasn’t able to beat Novak on grass this year. Fed played very well, but I don’t think he was at the level of 2006-2008.
@ native,
I never said Fed needs to be at 100% to beat Rafa on grass…where did you see me saying that?
but what I am liking from this argument with Mary is that finally Mary and Native became friends and loving each other’s posts…and they now belong to the same camp…that is so sweet!
well, if that’s what it takes…I do not regret any of this…
nats lol. 🙂
wrong again! I was talking about the past…Rafa of 2008 could beat Fed at his 100%…Rafa of 2015 wouldn’t even come close…but you do know that…
nats,
Is it really necessary for you to comment on my relationship with Mary? Would you prefer to have us saying bad things about each other? Why even bother to comment on it. Mary said something to me and I responded regarding me being in enemy camps. I did not agree with her on that score. But I did agree with something she said about Fed beating Rafa on grass. What’s the big deal?
That doesn’t mean that I have a problem with you or anything. You don’t need to make sarcastic digs because I am choosing not to get into an argument with someone. I thought the point was for all of us to get along.
I also don’t think that Novak is necessarily going to dominate next year. I am hoping that Rafa can get back to his best because he is the one player who can take down Novak. But we also have Murray who is capable of winning slams and now Stan is in the mix, having beaten Novak at RG. As for Fed, I don’t see him being able to beat Novak in a slam match, be it a final or semi or whatever. I just don’t think he can do it at the age of 34. He’s had two cracks at it this year. Fed obviously wants to win at least one more slam to protect his record. But I just don’t think it’s going to happen.
@ native, 7:38 pm,
it was meant to be a joke. I too like you to be friends with Mary or any other poster here…I was just pleased that I somehow encouraged it and I have taken the credit where it’s due…no sarcasm whatsoever…just relax and enjoy this new friendly atmosphere while it lasts… 🙂
and for what it’s worth, I really hope Novak will not dominate next year…I hope Rafa to ajust his game and come back strong and beat them all…I want him to win AO and RG and the rest is irrelevant as far as I am concerned…
nats,
Thanks so much for your response! 🙂
Sometimes it’s hard to know the meaning of comments because we are posting words and one can’t see the person or hear the inflection in their voices.
I really appreciate you clarifying this. I did not mean my comment to be said in an angry way.
My feeling is that as long as someone is willing to talk to me in a reasonable and respectful way, then I will respond in kind.
I do appreciate your passion and your thoughts and contributions to the discussion here. I hope that you will always know that. 🙂
We may disagree, but it’s always all good.
Also, I absolutely hope that Novak won’t dominate next year! We agree on that! I am expecting a certain Spanish player who we all know and love to have his say next year!
I agree about AO and RG!
Thanks again! No hard feelings at all! 🙂
nats, do you think that a less than 100% Nole can beat Rafa today?
What % Rafa today?
A less than 100% Djoker against a 100% Rafa.
What surfrace?
IMO a less than 100% Novak can NEVER beat 100% Rafa on ANY surface…but that is just my humble opinion and Nole’s fans sitting next to me tend to disagree… 🙂
And why are you asking me such a stupid question? You yourself stated the same thing about Rafa needing to be 100% to beat Novak…and here is the link to remind you in case you forget…
https://tenngrand.com/social/player-pages/rafael-nadal/rafael-nadal-2015/comment-page-19/#comment-221698
“As for Rafa needing to be 100% to beat Novak, I think this is true of any player against another pro especially another top player. If Rafa is not 100% and Novak is, then it’s not rocket science who is likely to win.”
I want nats to answer. You are turning it into a whole new discussion.
nadline, do you think that a 100% Rafa can lose anywhere anytime?
That is not the subject I am discussing with nats. Stay out of it.
Why?
This is a public forum.
I don’t see why nats should be expected to answer hypothetical questions when the asker isn’t willing to do the same.
I certainly wouldn’t.
Too bad Fed got the win this time… But Rafa was very gracious in defeat, Rafa is certainly back and he’s only going to get better from now on.
I think that a subpar Djokovic can only beat A 100 % Rafa in AO.
They have only played each other once in the AO and it took 6 hours to decide the winner. Rafa has been injured in 3 AOs so far – against Murray, Ferrer and Stan.
what do you mean “only”???
I don’t think a subpar Djoko can beat a 100% Rafa anywhere. However Rafa probably has to be at 100% to beat Djoko at AO.
I don’t mind Fed winning at Basel. He wanted that win very badly. But of course, a win by Rafa would have helped in building our faith in the return of our Rafa the invincible.
I’ve always thought Nadal and Djokovic can give each other as good as they get, they are each other’s toughest opponent. It’s easy to judge Rafa now after suffering so many injury setbacks and having to make comebacks in the last 3 years to get his momentum back. Some implying that Djoker can beat with one hand tied behind his back literally.
I agree about Rafa having to be at 100% to beat Novak at AO. He hasn’t won so many times there for nothing. It’s by far his most successful slam.
I do not think that Novak can beat Rafa with one hand tied behind his back. Since that 2012 AO, Rafa has had the better of Novak until this year.
hawkeye, I would like to answer your question addressed to nadline.
A 100% Rafa cannot be beaten anywhere, on any surface,by anybody.
So paraphrasing,
a 100%
RafaIsTheBest?
hawkeye, why have you and Christophe never been seen in the same place at the same time?
I’m still waiting on nadline to answer my question.
You answer my question and I’ll reciprocate.
haha, looks like nats is unhappy native and I exchanged a friendly post!
nats and I have many fans here.
Oy! Really? 🙂
of course we are… 🙂
Mary,
It certainly appears that way, doesn’t it!
@ Mary,
not at all…I love it! It was about the time. You both love Rafa so much. It must have been difficult to be on opposite sides when you have so much in common! Rafa deserves better than that from his loyal fans…
I am sure vamosrafa will enjoy this new development as well…it’s great to be one big happy family… 🙂
discussing tennis is what we all want, isn’t it… I am so looking forward to it…
nats,
YES! Well said! It is true that we love Rafa. That is true!
I hope that we can all get along and just enjoy talking about the tennis. Things are looking up for Rafa, so I think there are going to be good times ahead! 🙂
hawkeye, if this were facebook, I would put “like” on most of your posts though I disagree with more than 50% of them.
That’s probably higher than the number of my posts that even I agree with.
^LOL! 🙂
nadline why do you want Christophe and hawks to post at the same time? Double trouble! Or we would be fatally ill seeing everything twice like that “catch 22” character.
They are both strawmen so we shouldn’t take anything they post seriously.
I prefer to discuss tennis, not other posters.
hawkeye is witty when he is not being tiresome!
When is he not being tiresome?
ok, sometimes he is witty even when being tiresome!
@nadline10, I don’t comment on you personally. I expect the same courtesy as per the site rules.
I prefer to stick to tennis.
As NNY said, novak is not in the same league as nadal and federer as yet…. BUT, he is progressing at a crazy rate…. I do think rafa will have a lot more to say next year.
Only a 100% rafa or stan can beat novak at AO….
To be honest, I do feel worried about novak’s progress. He has 10 slams and he has been almost invincible this year.
His serve , ROS, forehand, backhand are all world class weapons operating at ruthless efficiency. Currently he is physically the strongest, mentally the toughest (soon will be eclipsed by rafa’s mental game though ) and the best mover.
Rafa’s movement is improving but there is still plenty of room for improvement. However, he moved towards his backhand side better in the basel final.
@hawkeye wrote some where that playing behind the baseline is an effect rather than being a cause … i agree with this to a large extent!
I agree with you…I expect Rafa to come back stronger next year…this year was really weird in many ways…
I want to share with you the thoughts of my friend, Nole’s fan…he was saying that Nole has not even played his best tennis this fall…he is winning his matches mostly on his mental strength and his physical fitness…he finds the way out of troubles and he immediately puts pressure on his opponents who eventually give up…
TBH I do not like Nole’s tennis…I think it is mostly baseline fest and I dislike watching two people exhausting each other on court…I so admire Fed improving his volleying skills..it beautiful to watch…I hope Rafa ajusts his own game to some extent…I know it’s easier than done but I think team Nadal is working on it…
yeah…but rafa won countless matches due to his sheer willpower, mental strength and physical strength…now novak does that too. Also, fed was forced to improve his volleys. Trust me, he is not fond of wow-ing audiences but rather he just wants to win . He cannot compete from the baseline with nole/rafa so he evolved his game. I do give him lots of credit for improving his net game and of course his backhand. He can pack quite a punch now with his backhand….
Nah, Novak has now moved into the court as much as possible though not always rushing to the net the way Fed does. Novak is trying to control from the mid court, not only from the baseline and so far so good for him.
Rafa back in 2010 was trying to move forward, with some success, and he did that in 2013 during the USO series. Sadly, he reverted to his clay court style of play most of the time. Its hard to change something which served him well for most of his career. I just hope he at least moves forward when playing on grass and fast HCs.
vamosrafa,
I am also worried about Novak progressing so rapidly. He does seem to be in his prime right now. I actually do not buy the “weak field” argument. I think that Novak has simply separated himself from the rest of the field. Now I know that this kind of comment may well get me put in the “enemy camp” category, but that’s just how I see it.
However, I truly hope that Rafa gets back to his best, so that he can give Novak a run for his money next year.
One thought I had about the Basel final – I thought Rafa hit his backhand, especially cc really well in that match. He was also doing it in his previous matches. Stepping into the court to hit a DTL or CC backhand for winners. It’s a good sign that this shot is coming back.
so rapidly? He did this same thing in 2011 or whatever year that was. Not exactly a rapid rise.
You guys seem to think rafa of 2008 was that great?! :S yes , he was quite extraordinary but keep in mind that his forehand was nowhere as developed. His forehand attained new heights in 2013. He moved it up a gear in 2010 and then 2013 featured the fearhand! Rafa’s serve was also weaker and underdeveloped in 2008! He would get punished even more for those serves if he comes up against the return game of today’s nole. Rafa os 2008 was, however, at his physical peak. He had infinite reserves of energy. His backhand was near its peak. He was untouchable on clay in 2008. Wow he was a freak.
VR, you now get it. Fed and Rafa were at their physical peak (Fed during 2004-2006 and Rafa 2008 -2011) and so their BH and FH were at their most solid, ie hard to breakdown. To me a BH or a FH which is hard to overcome is better than one which is more varied or more offensive but could be overcome by opponent’s attack, and thats what i meant when i said someone has/had a better BH or FH. When both were at their physical peak, Fedal were hard to beat. Fed’s BH back then was only vulnerable to Rafa and mainly on clay.
Ed, its as if Rafa was playing like theres no tomorrow, back in 2013. I think having that long injury break, having to miss the USO, the AO and most importantly the Olympics when he was supposed to be the flag bearer for Spain, had a strong impact on him. I guessed he’s determined to comeback strong and do well, not only to prove to others but to prove to himself that he still could be the topdog and beat whoever standing in his way. I think he did mention that he wont know when hes going to win, or when he wont be winning anymore, something to that effect if i remember correctly.
I guess the back injury that happened in a slam final (AO) really did him in; he probably couldnt believe what and why the bad luck he had one after another, not helped by his wrist injury just before the NAHC swing. His 2015 didnt start well as he’s ill prepared for it in the first place; moreover his back injury was something new to him, unlike his knee injuries, all the more he had to be cautious and feeling less confident.
vamosrafa,
I like your analysis of the 2008 Rafa. Whenever I have gone back and watched the 2008 Wimbledon final, I am struck by how much weaker his serve was back then. It was just more about getting the ball in play. It’s also true that his forehand was not the ferocious weapon it has become. But the one thing that did truly stand out, was how well Rafa moved on the court back then. Truly exceptional! That’s when I realize that he has slowed down a bit these days. He really never got tired in matches back then.
I guess we do have to accept that Rafa is getting older in tennis years. It happens to all of them. There are things that you start to lose and then it’s necessary to find ways to compensate. For the sake of his body, I hope that Rafa will continue to be aggressive and look to close out points quickly. I know that this is not always possible, but I do hope that he can win more efficiently moving forward. He has to take care of his body.
Ricky,
But the point is that Novak wasn’t able to sustain it after 2011. He didn’t dominate again until this year. So that’s four years. I know that doesn’t mean he went away. He was still at #1 for a good part of that time. Rafa also got the better of him after that 2012 AO loss in slams until this year. So the next years after 2011 did slow Novak down a bit. Rafa had a lot to do with that.
I think in many ways this year has been an even better one for Novak. He has become so mentally strong these days. He has this ability to raise his level of play when needed. He is in his prime physically. I think this year he just made even more strides in his career.
It is Novak’s mental strength which improved. He was always able to go toe to toe with Rafa from the outset but stumbled more often than not – he lacked the belief particularly on clay until 2011. However he was not prepared for the 2013 Rafa. Having wrested the Monte Carlo crown from Rafa with relative ease he became nonchalant and Rafa gained the upper hand.
I don’t think anybody has explained satisfactorily what drove Rafa to such heights that year – particularly as recently he let slip he had played the whole of 2013 in severe pain.
By the same token, in spite of reams and reams of speculation and countless theories, we are no closer to understanding the real cause of his dramatic, debilitating loss of confidence.
@ vamosrafa,
you are right about Fed. He cannot compete with Nole & Rafa in the baseline fest and he never liked it to be true…even in this match in Basel, even with this version of Rafa, Fed ended up losing longer rallies…Fed was forced to change but that is what I think Rafa is to do as well if he wants to beat Nole…Nole is at his peak and can run forever, Rafa can no longer afford it…especially with those knees starting to bother him again…
well that is true….rafa has to find some solutions. Right now, rafa seems to be convinced that if he can regain his form, he can beat nole. That may well happen but I am not sure how much physical endurance he has now..he is still on of the fittest and only time will tell how much of his former strength he regains.
Rafa’s second serve and backhand slice, if he can improve these shots, he can gain the upper hand even over novak. The backhand slice can create winning patterns for him. He hits some pathetic slices sometimes and the rate of improvement has been depressing.
It’s been years but he has not quite been able to develop a backhand DTL that can be called a real weapon. I hope he can do that in the coming years. The pressure of aging will force him to take initiatives. He has started serving after winning tosses and is practicing returning second serves from inside the baseline. He is trying to add some dimensions. I have faith in rafa. He will start winning slams again very soon,
I think the Rafa of 2008 was formidable. Untouchable on clay. His progress through RG rounds was awe inspiring and he crushed Fed in the final. Then went on to beard the grass lion in his own den. Won Olympics on hard court. Got exhausted but the exciting, formidable Rafa surfaced in AO 2009. Nothing seemed impossible for him. Those were heady days for Rafa fans.
The current nole would be a very tough proposition for Rafa of 2008. Rafa of 2008 will in fact have lots of difficulties which we never saw him experience.
These comparisons are quite illogical …. players evolve their games on the basis of how they can overcome their rivals. They just keep getting better and better with time until age catches up and makes them slower etc.
The moment when Rafa won 2009 , however, was really the pinnacle in many ways. he seemed unstoppable. Another such moment was after his career slam at USO 2010… sighhhh….those days!
The so called formidable current Djoko failed to beat Rafa at any RG until this year when Rafa is obviously slumping. But Djoko is still not that formidable on clay as he got beaten by Stan. Then again Djoko seemed the hard court king but Rafa beat him in 2013 in Canada as well as in the USO. In 2011 USO and 2012 AO, their matches were close. I am sure USO 2011 would have been won by Rafa but for the back to back matches he had to play. Plus I think he had burnt his hands and cramped badly at some press conference showing he had some fitness issues?
There was an analysis by some tennis writer (Steve Tignor?), as to why till this year Djoko had won only 1 USO. Apparently the wind bothers him but now with the partially constructed roof, the wind is cut down. So from this year on wards, even USO is not his weak surface. Fed, Muzz and Rafa, especially Muzz are not unduly bothered by the wind.
I am not too sanguine about Rafa’s return as I am puzzled by his lack of power and loss of speed. For the sake of tennis, I hope he does come back. Or Muzz picks up the gauntlet. Or some promising young player steps up to the plate. The young players these days are spoilt and though talented are not prepared for the huge amount of hard work and sacrifice required to be at the top. Like Kyrgios after he beat Rafa or Sloane after she beat Serena, these kids think they have arrived just by beating the legends. They do not realize, or the millions in endorsements make it convenient for them to forget, that genius is 99% perspiration.
vamosrafa,
I agree about the 2009 AO being the pinnacle of Rafa’s career up to that point in time. That slam win is my personal favorite, although I know that the 2008 Wimbledon is considered his greatest slam win. I can’t argue with that, but for me it will always be the 2009 AO. I have talked about this many times in the past, but I will say it again. That slam win was just one of the most extraordinary moments in which a player managed to triumph over almost insurmountable obstacles. Rafa had every reason to lose that final. The marathon match with Nando in the semis, having only one day’s rest to Fed’s two, never having beaten Fed at a hard court slam. But somehow Rafa was able to dig deep and maybe find reserves that even he may not have thought he had.
I will always believe that the reason for Fed breaking down at the trophy ceremony, was because there were no excuses for his loss. On paper, he had it in the bag. That Rafa could overcome him with all those disadvantages, truly seemed to crush Fed. I always had the feeling that Fed was waiting for Rafa to crumble or be overcome by fatigue. That it would all catch up with him at some point. But that never happened. After Fed won the fourth set, one would have thought he would come out in the fifth set with the momentum. But Rafa came out even stronger and just took that last set away from him. He broke Fed mentally in that set.
Yes, the other great moment was after Rafa won the 2010 USO. Great times!
The 2008 Rafa? Clearly he’ll get the better of the current Novak on clay. Novak can win the clay Masters (given how close he pushed Rafa at Hamburg 2008) but Rafa will win the FO, NID.
On grass, the 2008 Rafa could beat the 2008 version of Fed, I’ll give Rafa an edge over the current Novak on grass. The current Novak should be better than the 2008 Rafa at the HC slams.
I think the AO2009 version of Rafa was by far the best Rafa at the AO, and he would give the 2011 version of Novak at the AO (his best version there) a run for his money. I would tend to think that the 2010 USO version of Rafa would beat any version of Novak at the USO. Seriously, I’m not too impressed with Novak at the USO, its the most difficult slam for him and he could be beaten there by quite a number of guys – Rafa, Murray, Kei and in the past by Fed.
the 2008 Rafa was my personal favorite…all the posts here about Rafa in those 2008-2009 days bring such great memories…he was really something back then…his fitness, his mental strength, his tennis all were on such high level…it was a pure joy to watch…
I also agree that Rafa adjusts his game to be able to beat certain opponents…he did it for Fed and Fed did it for him…Nole did it for Rafa…I am sure once again Rafa and his team will prove that their tennis brain and their tactics work against just about anybody…and that they will fine-tune Rafa’s game once again to deal with Nole…
we must acknowledge that it makes it harder and harder to come back after all those injuries…one of my friends said: “where in the sport did you witness so many successful come-backs as with Rafa…it cannot go on forever…” But what I think is that Rafa’s determination and this killer instinct that has recently resurfaced will be the leading force yet again…Rafa is capable of showing exceptional ability and powers when in such mode…
this may be the wishful thinking but Rafa may still do well in the FTW…after all his form is improving every single day…
Vamos Rafa!