Roger Federer beat Rafael Nadal for the first time in their last six meetings and in doing so defended his Swiss Indoors Basel title. Federer prevailed 6-3, 5-7, 6-3 after two hours and two minutes for his seventh Basel triumph.
With a 10-23 lifetime record against his nemesis and playing at home in Switzerland for the first time in the rivalry’s illustrious history, Federer needed a win in the worst way. He came out playing like it, breaking in the fifth game and at love in the ninth game to seize set one in style. The 34-year-old consolidated his initial break with some especially impressive stuff on a break point at 3-2.
Federer saves break point with an amazing forehand pass:
[tweet https://twitter.com/TennisTV/status/660822054137176064]
Nadal finally earned a break of his own at 5-5 in the second. It proved to be enough for the third-seeded Spaniard to force a decider, as he promptly delivered a love hold one game later.
Much to the delight of the pro-Federer crowd, the 17-time Grand Slam champion regained control in set three. Despite missing a break chance at 2-1, he struck decisively at 4-3. Nadal set a backhand well long on break point before Federer survived a deuce game at 5-3 to clinch victory.
The top seed used his SABR tactic three times, succeeding only once.
Federer’s first SABR attempt ends badly:
Highlights:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvwGL-XUwA]
“My fourth time here, finally I get to the finals–so I’m very happy for that,” Nadal said during the trophy ceremony. “Very emotional week; all the matches…a lot of fight. I believe that it’s been a very important week for me, for this year and for the future.”
Both players will now head to the Paris Masters for the last tournament of the proverbial regular season (before the eight-man World Tour Finals). Federer awaits either Andreas Seppi or Pablo Cuevas, while Nadal could open against Lukas Rosol.
[polldaddy poll=9156114]
Thanks Ricky. Just switch Federer for Djokovic in your last sentence.
the 2 opponents
Fed could open against Andreas Seppi.
Rafa had a flight to catch…
https://twitter.com/troublefault/status/660849872799666176
Funny how he has no sense of time before serving.
As I said, congrats to me for being one of the few here to actually pick the heavy favourite (3.5) to win. On an indoor court. Against a guy who he was 4-1 and who’s on record for not liking indoors and is currently trying to regain his form. Like that was difficult.
Perhaps the biggest (and encouraging) sign is that it was by far the second best indoor match (next to the one he won) he’s ever played against Fed.
It’s indoors people. A Fed loss indoors is extremely R.A.R.E. to any player not named Djokovic.
Hope our betting friend took Ricky’s advice and didn’t lose too much.
As Rafa said, making finals and losing to one of the best on Fed’s favourite surfrace and on Rafa’s least is not a disappointing week for him.
So much for anywhere anytime. Federer is the Indoor GOAT.
This result (other than Rafa playing his best match in months and taking a set in return) was really no surprise at all.
(Please forgive any typos or grammatical errors.) 😉
i don’t think anyone thought it was surprising
LOL thanks for making my corrections! You’d think they were intentional (based on my last sentence), but I promise they were not.
I think the exact words were “at this point it his hard to like his chances in this particular matchup under any circumstances” even though Roger was a heavy betting favourite so many including me were able to imagine it just fine.
#DontYou?
hawkeye,
You did not get it right because you said two sets and it wouldn’t be competitive. NID! Not true! This was a real match and Rafa had his chances. it turned on a few shots. So I wouldn’t get too carried away with giving yourself too many pats on the back. I am okay with my prediction even though Rafa didn’t win in three sets. I do remember saying that there was no way Rafa was going to lose in two sets! So I was right! 🙂
Exactly. Nobody thought it was surprising that Fed won, so what a missed chance by Rafa, having come so close (and Fed wasnt at his best).
Fed could lose indoors – he lost to Delpo twice at Basel in finals.
Yes but one of those came in 2013 which was a terrible year for Roger and Del po has bigger serve than Rafa that can earn him more free points on this surface. I’m pretty sure Del Po spanked Rafa the next week too in Paris and that was indoors as well and when Rafa was having amazing year in 2013.
Delpo was awesome in Basel
No, that was in Shanghai. Rafa was beaten by Ferrer at Paris that year.
I ‘forgive’ Rafa for not playing well in the Asian and indoor swing in 2013 after the exploits he had that year. I mean he lost in straight sets to Ferrer at Paris Masters, Delpo at Shanghai and Novak at Beijing and WTF! He was shaky all tournament, at Beijing and WTF, not playing that well at Shanghai and Paris too that year.
Its not only with a big serve that you could beat Fed at Basel! Rafa not having a big serve was still close to beating Fed here if not for him faltering in his last service game. Rafa is Fed’s nemesis, he has a way of dealing with Fed that all other players, including Delpo and Novak, couldnt. Novak in 2009 wasnt serving big yet he still was able to beat Fed at Basel.
Delpo beat him indoors in 2012 WTF too.
BG indoors is Rafa’s least favourite surfrace for the tennis (good years and bad) ICYMI.
Congrats to Fed the indoor GOAT!!!!
And while he COULD lose (which nobody would disagree), he is the heavy favourite indoors against anybody but Djokovic.
Yeah but he did actually win last two meetings indoors against Novak but both were in Dubai which is like the fastest hard court I think so that makes sense fed won there.
Dubai definitely ain’t indoors
Fed hasn’t beaten Nole indoors since 2010 when he beat him in Basel and WTF.
Nole has won the last three: 2012 WTF, 2013 Paris and 2013 WTF.
He also beat Fed in Basel in 2009.
Nole is 4-2 overall vs Fed indoors.
If they meet next week, Nole will become the second player with a winning record over the so-called GOAT (with any significant number of matches played).
Oh crap??sorry guys I really thought Dubai was indoors.
we know!!
Novak is now the indoor HC king. I think he’s going to win Paris Masters and WTF this year. I think Rafa will never win a title at WTF ( and Paris Masters). Its an opportunity missed by Rafa in 2010 when he was playing his best tennis.
Novak is the Grass, HC and indoor King ATM period.
Fed is the indoor GOAT.
Sampras is the grass GOAT.
Djokovic is the hard court GOAT.
Rafa is THE GOAT.
don’t think anyone would disagree. Nadal is a heavy underdog to ever win the WTFs. Paris Masters could be winnable, but obviously not this week.
I don’t believe he wll either. If he was going to it would have happened by now. It’s not just the obstacle of Djokovic and Federer, there are too many younger players these days capable of torpedoing him in the early rounds.
#A clear case of hope being unlikely to triumph over experience 🙁
It seems that not winning the WTF is not a concern for Rafa and Toni. They seem to want to concentrate their efforts on winning on clay, Rafa keeps talking about the clay season next year. I have a feeling that after all his injuries and also the rise of Novak and his dominance, Rafa and his team is more realistic than his fans and realizes that Novak is an unmovable block standing in everyone’s way, hence Rafa’s intention of concentrating on clay.
WTF is a farce. Glorified indoor exho. Happy Rafa doesn’t make winning there a priority.
To do it right, it should be moved around the world and played outdoors half the time.
luckystar, in 2008, 2010 & 2013, commies were asking players what they had to do to beat Nadal because he was dominating at the time but nothing lasts for ever and whilst Djokovic is dominating now I wouldn’t say he is unmovable. They even had a game on Sky to take one shot from each player to make the complete player capable of beating Nadal. I distinctly remember Berdych being asked in 2013 and he said maybe all the players who hadn’t beaten Rafa that year should hold a meeting to work out a solution.
I remember the days when the resident trolls on TT were jeering because Rafa did not have a WTF title and Federer had like two dozen and I said just that – it’s a glorified exho – and they went into overdrive. Don’t recall if you were around at the time or not.
I’m not a fan of the RR format and am mystified by the scoring system. One year so were the tournament directors. It took the best part of 20 minutes before they reached agreement on whether it was Federer or Murray who went forward to the SF.
Agreed. My suggestions were to improve it but the RR is a serious major flaw being the only tournament that does this.
IMO, it should be a prize money event with no points awarded due to this obvious flaw.
ed, it was between Delpo and Murray.
The 2 finalists in Singapore lost their first matches and one of them lifted the YE trophy. Under normal circumstances neither of them would have gone passed the 1st round. The points and prize money are excessive. This is a carrot to get players to turn up.
I remember 2008 when Murray beat Federer although he didn’t need to in order to proceed but was wrecked for the SF
But it was the first edition in London that I remember best for the 20 minute delay in announcing Federer as the semi finalist. This led to the ‘tanks Federer’ banner and in an ironic twist Davydenko went on to beat Federer in the SF and subsequently win the title.
ed251137 ( at 2:41 pm),
—am mystified by the scoring system—
===
.
The ATP Rulebook & Wiki : ¤¤ ATP World Tour Finals
The eight players who qualify for the event are split into two groups of four. During this stage, players compete in a round-robin format (meaning players play against all the other players in their group). The two players with the best results in each group progress to the semifinals, where the winners of a group face the runners-up of the other group.
The final standings of each group shall be determined by the first of the following methods that apply:
a) Greatest number of wins.
b) Greatest number of matches played.
c) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied.
d) If three (3) players are tied, then: … ¤¤
(Read more in the 2015 ATP Offcial Rulebook)
Exactly. Incomprehensible 🙂
WTF
DRAW
“The top seeded players/teams are placed in Group A and the second seeded player/team are placed in Group B. Players/teams seeded 3 and 4, 5 and 6, 7 and 8, are then drawn in pairs with the first drawn placed in Group A. Each player/team plays the three other players/teams in his group. The winner of each group (best overall record) is placed in separate semi-final brackets, with the top player/team in Group A playing the runner-up in Group B, and vice versa. If two or more players/teams are tied after the round robin matches, the ties are broken by the Tie-Break Procedure.”
http://www.barclaysatpworldtourfinals.com/en/event/rules-and-format
ed251137 (at 3:33 pm),
The 2009 WTF draw:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2009/605/mds.pdf
ed251137 (at 3:33 pm),
The 2008 WTF draw:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2008/605/mds.pdf
Rafa was #1 in 2008 but pulled out of the WTF.
I wouldn’t go that far to state that Rafa may never win WTF…Rafa is a synonym for miracle…and miracles happen…people have been writing him off so many times and yet he would prove them wrong again and again…as of late Rafa regained his animal instinct…the top four constantly keep an eye on him…what does it tell you?…Rafa is coming back once again…
I think Rafa stands equal chance to win WTF as Novak to win RG…
He pulled out of the WTF because he was injured during the Paris Masters and retired mid match (amid shameful booing from the French crowd). Federer finished his match but withdrew from the rest of the tournament and recuperated in time for Shanghai.
It should be borne in mind this was 2008 Olympic year. The top guys had flown from America to Bejiing; From Bejiing to New York; back to Europe; then to Shanghai – all within a matter of weeks. A few days later the top Spanish and Argentinians had to jet off to Argentinia for the Davis Cup final.
Jet lag, sleep deprivation and exhaustion. That schedule was draconian.
Yes, not sure if I’ve mentioned it before but I’ve never been a fan of the French crowd, especially when it comes to their treatment of Rafa in any match other than against Djokovic (of whom they seem to respect even less if that’s possible).
ed251137 (at 6:07 pm),
Speaking of the French crowd, hawk is permanently trying to convince people here that Rafa has ALWAYS been treated badly by them. I have always said that hooligan-Fedfans booed Rafa and it has happened twice: at the Paris Masters in 2008 and at RG in 2009.
People form snap opinions of other nationalities based on one or two unfortunate encounters and thereafter remain antagonistic. Even more when there is also a language barrier.
We’ve observed how popular Rafa is in France away from the tennis courts but as we know it only needs a few hecklers in any audience to cause mayhem.
I agree with Hawkeye Rafa is not shown the same courtesy as Federer in France – or elsewhere come to that. I think this bothers U.Toni more than it does Rafa. I also attribute the negativity towards Rafa to pundits such as Guy Forget and Matts Wilander who constantly made derogatory remarks. e.g. Forget: ‘We don’t want construction workers at Roland Garros’. ugh!
btw. The above is a generalisation, not an endorsement of your opinion on Hawk’s view of the French.
Exactly Ed well said.. And there are more ways to show disrespect towards players other than just booing. The French rarely boo anybody including Rafa.
And augusta08 please don’t put words in my mouth. I’ve never said ALWAYS about the French crowd.
ed251137 says:
November 2, 2015 at 9:25 pm
—I think this bothers U.Toni more than it does Rafa.—
===
.
Jesus! U.Toni has only once said something negative about the spectators in France – after the hooligan-Fedfans booed Rafa when he lost to Söderling in 2009. But it has religiously been brought up by hawk here countless times!
/I used Mary’s word “religiously brought up”/
Well it’s good to have at least one WTF title as it’s the only important title missing in his resume. I really hope this is not something people hold against Rafa the way they hold the FO against Sampras or the USO against Borg.
No, it’s not important. Never been a priority for Rafa.
But yes, federazzi hold it against him all the time and get quite upset if it is downplayed.
Hawleye @ 3.38pm
–– and get quite upset if it is downplayed––
I thought the English were pre-eminent in the art of the understatement 😉
They are second most pre-eminent. 😉
Nadine, I know nothing is for sure, but Novak’s dominance now is eeriely similar to Fed’s 2004-2007. Both Fed and Novak have the advantage of having the game to excel on a surface that’s being played on at 60-70% of tour tournaments, which is why Novak now is riding high winning the two HC slams, three of five HC masters with another two finals; those already accounted for more than half of the ranking points.
Coming back to Rafa, it’s his unbelievable dominance on clay plus being very good on grass and HCs that he was able to dominate in 2008 and 2010; and his excellent results on HCs that he had such an amazing season in 2013. In a way this speaks volumes about Rafa’s greatness, when he was able to dominate the tour even when HCs weren’t his favorite surface (he’s no. 1 on clay and grass and no.2 on HCs in both 2008 and 2010, no.1 on HCs being Novak and Fed respectively).
Novak now is the king of all surfaces, except that he couldn’t win the FO but has most points on clay this year among all players.
If you say so.
Rafa didn’t have the benefit of one of his rivals being sidelined with injury for over a year in total having to start again after 6/7 months out.
nats, are you saying that Djoker’s dominance is more superior to Rafa’s dominance?
Rafa had the most points on h/c in 2010, he won the American series in 2013 and no one said he was the King of h/c.
Thats true, the point about Rafa not having the benrfit of a rival being sidelined for injury for a long period. Also, the greatness of Rafa – having to fight one fellow great after another during their respective prime.
Why would they?
No, Rafa is the clay court GOAT. Fed is the grass GOAT, indoor GOAT, hard court GOAT and overall GOAT. Novak not any GOAT yet. He’s the current king of all the surfaces, indoors and outdoors.
PS. Just playing along with the term ‘GOAT’.
luckystar, I posted a response to a discussion on fed’s backhand … on page 8 of basel final preview …. it got lost so just notifying ….haha
And it was epic.
Bravo VR. You are the TennGrand King of Tennis.
lol…. funny man you are, hawkeye!
No, Fed is lacking sufficient slam lead to make up for poor h2h vs Rafa and Nole, something that Rafa, Sampras and Laver never suffered, not to mention missing Gold, less Masters and just one DC. Doesn’t stand up to Rafa.
He needs at least one more.
Novak is definitely the HC GOAT.
hehe…the head to head argument is intriguing! a clear blemish on fed’s resume
Dont agree Novak is the HC GOAT (not yet the GOAT) when he made 6 USO finals winning only two. His HC slam records is not as good as Fed’s and he’s now only 28 and may get worse when he gets older. Currently Fed has more HC titles, including more slams and more WTF and equal number of HC Masters.
Don’t agree. Weak Era gave Fed 12 slams, seven on HC.
Nole is HC GOAT.
For now, I would say, Novak is the GOAT on slow-medium paced hard courts!
Fed the GOAT on medium-fast hard courts… Novak is perhaps on his way to becoming the HC GOAT, let’s see…..
on grass, it is either fed or pete…may be pete has a little edge but quite arguable
on clay, OF COURSE rafa!
on indoors, Johnny mac was incredible! now there is fed and most recently there is novak!
You forgot that overall Rafa is GOAT.
Connors and McEnroe could all play at any tournaments they wanted, often different ones.
So they could run around playing all sorts of smaller indoor events paying appearance fees. Novak has to play mostly mandatory events against all the top players all of the time.
There were much fewer mandatory events.
That said, Novak and Roger are better indoor players. Today’s game is simply superior to the 70′s. (Oh no he d’int.)
BOOM!!!
haha….fair points regarding playing smaller events…
today’s game superior? umm…may be….it is very different and likely superior but every player deals with players of his own era so that balances things off…
I wish rafa can win a WTF!
I dont understand why is Rafa the GOAT. Hrs not excellent on grass, even Novak has more Wimbledon titles now. Rafa has 3 HC slams vs Fed’s 9 and Novak’s 7. Hes the overwhelming CLAY GOAT but how’s he the GOAT??
Already explains
Novak may be the GOAT soon. He can do it as soon as June by holding all four slams concurrently but as of now he’s missing the French, seven less slams than the record, less Masters than the record.
Saying that Rafa is not excellent on grass is an outrageously wrong statement. How many players won two Wimbledon titles and made five straight finals? Please.
There are others who won five or seven Wimbledon, those are/were excellent. There are others who won three Wimbledon and reached a few more finals and they’re very good on grass. To me Rafa belongs to the latter category.
So according to you, Fed, Sampras and Borg are the only excellent grass court players in the open era.
Sure. Whatevs.
To say that Becker, Rafa and Connors weren’t excellent on grass does them a disservice and is a ridiculous statement.
There are many very good grass court players. For instance, anyone who ever won a Wimbledon title qualifies.
Suffice to say that I don’t agree with the comment that the game is superior to the 70’s. How can you compare and make that statement? Because there were fewer mandatory events? Why not talk about the racket technology back then. That’s why I don’t see how we can possibly compare eras and rate them in any way. The game has changed a great deal since the 70’s. It’s much more physical and the racket technology has given players even more power and advantages. But in the 70’s it was more like survival of the fittest. Nastase made a habit of blowing up in almost every match. Because of his antics, they established the player’s code of conduct. But back then players would deliberately try to hit each other. In that respect, things were tougher. It was like survival of the fittest and the meanest. I still remember watching a youtube video of Lendl hitting a shot right at Vitas Gerulaitis, which sent him falling backwards onto the court. But he just got back up and continued playing.
Each era of tennis has its own difficulties. What about before 1968, the beginning of the Open Era in tennis? Look at what Laver, Emerson, Rosewall and others of that era had to go through. If the wanted to make any money, they had to play in professional events, but that got them banned from participating in tennis tournaments. It was a crazy time in tennis, in which the sport didn’t seem to know if it wanted to be all about pros or amateurs. Those guys never made much in their careers. Laver has wins that are not counted in the official record because of the fact that he played in pro tournaments. It was terrible. Fortunately, sanity finally prevailed with the ushering in of the Open Era, Thank goodness! But each era has its good aspects and bad aspects.
Rafa is not the overall GOAT because nobody is!
You answered your own question. Everything has improved.
Ricky’s attempt at denigrating the SABR is so funny. Sour grapes all over. The whole point of the strategy is to put doubt in the opponents’ mind. Not its direct success rate which anyway is not high against most players. It’s the unpredictability that makes it lethal.
i hope this is a joke. I love everything about the SABR.
and…no.
not once since the invention of the SABR has Federer used it on an important point. So in any clutch moment, the opponent knows Federer isn’t SABRing. So I’m not sure how you can say the whole point is to put doubt in the opponents’ mind.
And it’s success rate is high. So none of what you said is true.
I hope he uses it more often because he usually loses the point.
Like Ricky sometimes.
Ricky,
Thanks for your response about the SABR, because now I don’t have to post a reply myself!
Just because he won’t do it on critical points, doesn’t mean it’s not in the players mind on the 95% of the points that aren’t critical thus potentially impacting the serve on those points.
No, he is less than 50% on the success rate.. So what you said isn’t true.
Same as what you said about Rafa not playing Fed and not playing WTF this year.
It’s high against pretty much everyone what are you talking about.
Overall it is under 50%.
How do u know the success rate is under fifty percent? Are there SABR stats?
He is currently 10 out of 26 attempts (38.5% success rate).
Let’s see how the other 3 would cope with being out with injury and illness for 12 months out of the last 3 years. Murray was out of the top 10 after his back surgery and it took him a year to recover and he wasn’ t even sidelined for as long as 6 months.
I agree with you. He’s certainly the Most Injured Player of All Time. That is one title I shall certainly grant him. Never seen a bigger case of martyr syndrome in my life. And there I was sympathising with the Syrian Refugee Crisis. 🙁
I have to agree with nadline here. No question about the issues of injury and illness.
Reblogged this on Tennis Abides and commented:
I will have some thoughts about last week’s events later today, but for now enjoy Ricky’s thoughts.
Fed is now 34 . It is surprising he is even within top 3. Djokovic’s defeats of old Federer are irrelevant for the GOAT argument. FED is the hardcourt GOAT. FED or Sampras are Grass GOAT. Rafa is the clay GOAT. Fans of Rafa are unnecessarily hyping up Djoko without Stats to back them. Currently he is indeed king because we are in a super weak era but he is not GOAT of ANY surface. These fans claimed Djoko has the best ROS without any stats to back them by claiming that experts say so ( the fallacy of the expert argument). nats claimed Rafa has to be at 100% to beat Djoko on clay, a statement which is disrespectful of Rafa’s status as the clay legend. Now hawks claims Djoko is the HC GOAT. These maybe Rafa fans but their loyalty is not 100%.
No, Rafa is the Best.
My loyalty is to my interest in tennis.
The concept of being “loyal” to any tennis player does not interest me at all.
Mary, as for hawkeye being a Rafa fan, I’m sure that ship has sailed he is now a fully paid up member of Rafa Detractors inc.
@ nadline, 4:36pm
nats, are you saying that Djoker’s dominance is more superior to Rafa’s dominance?
where did I ever say that????
Both straw man arguments nats.
#NothingNew
@ Mary,
the reality is different from the past…one can’t live on past glory…if Rafa of 2008 played Novak of today he could have been 80% and still be able to beat Novak…Rafa of 2015 MUST be 100% to beat Novak…how is it disrespectful of Rafa who lost convincingly to Novak in RG qtrs…
it sounds so simple but so difficult for you to comprehend…I can’t see why???
Don’t blame you hawks. Everyone loves a winner.So if some Rafa fans are hitching their wagon to the rising Djoko star, it is not surprising. If Rafa doesn’t win any more slams next year, I am sure there will be a big exodus into Djoko camp all in the name of being objective or loyal to interest in tennis. Right now, your claim of loyalty to tennis being the basis for your elevation of Djoko to GOAT in the areas of HC or ROS doesn’t wash as there aren’t any stats to support these claims. Soon however, if the super weak era persists, there will probably be stats to support these claims ( HC and ROS). But for stats to catch up with nats opinion, a minimum of 9 years would be required so I doubt that nats will ever have stats to support her claim. Et tu Brute, this was the “unkindest” cut of all.
Mary (at 5:07 pm),
FYI: he has been Djoko’s (and not only his) “rescuer” for a long time:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQo6NiqVAAIAO3b.png:medium
LOL
My biggest fan is very loyal.
Actually no stats required at all to support my claim for tennis loyalty because I don’t feel the need to prove it to anybody.
Same goes for GOAT. It’s just my opinion. I can base it on his hair as far as I’m concerned or his life philosophy.
(But he is the HC GOAT and does have the best ROS.)
There will always be a new GOAT. It’s evolution baby.
But for now, “Mary”…
RafaIsTheBest
You are proving nadline and augusta’s contention. If you claim Djoko is the GOAT not based on any stats then you are a fan of Djoko.
I didn’t.
I’ve chosen the stats that I believe could make him the GOAT in the future. Please read more carefully.
Besides for now, and not because I am his fan, where GOAT is concerned?
RafaIsTheBest.
But I am a fan of Djokovic, Rafa, Sampras and many other players.
Rafa is my personal fav though. Used to be Sampras. Probably be somebody else in the future. Not Nole though.
Mary (at 5:52 pm),
FYI: he accuses others of being ‘no tennis fan’ (whatever it means):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS00n6OUsAAruTX.png:medium
I’m being attacked now.
Can’t we all just get along and stick to the site rules and talk tennis?
nats, your claim that Rafa has to be at 100% to beat Djoko on clay is disrespectful and not backed by stats. Now no player is at 100% all the time. Players are generally between 80-100%. A top player is consistently at the top because his 80%-100% is good enough to beat the field.
So Rafa dominated the field in clay because his 80%-100% was good enough to beat them for nearly 10 years. And that field included Djoko. Just because Rafa is no longer at his peak, it doesn’t prove that the current Djoko is so good that only a peak Rafa can beat him . That statement can only be made when Djoko is able to establish the same record of dominance on clay over the field which Rafa did during his peak. And Djoko will require at least 9 years to do that. Is that so hard to understand?
Not only a peak Rafa. Stan beat him there too. So did Roger in 2011, one of Nole’s best years – the single best year by any player ever (other than 2015 perhaps).
I never said A PEAK RAFA!!! A PEAK Rafa is gone! I am saying Rafa of 2015 must be 100%. You are clearly either not reading what I am saying or you have trouble understanding English! I said RAFA of 2015 which can by no means be the same as peak Rafa!
Again, I am not talking about the past! I am talking about now! Rafa dominated the field and is the KIng of Clay and it will stay that way. He is no longer at his peak but Novak is, and in order to be able to beat THIS Novak Rafa will have to do better than this year. Which means he will have to be 100%. I hope you are not saying that Rafa will no longer be KIng of Clay if he has to be 100% to beat Novak because that is what is disrespectful of Rafa.
If you are now arguing that Novak may not be 100% then Rafa CAN beat him but we are not talking about that option. Novak may as well be tired, injured or love sick and lose to Rafa! I am not considering Novak dropping his level. I am saying THIS RAFA against THIS NOVAK! You keep twisting my words and making clueless arguments..
We were talking about Novak’s dominance next year and if he continues at this level who would be able to beat him. I said Rafa at 100% in 2016 will be able to beat him.I hope you are not arguing now that Novak’s level may drop and then Rafa may not have to be 100%. That is possible to happen but that’s not the subject of discussion.
Again the discussion which you interrupted and wrongly interpreted was: Novak of 2015 vs Rafa of 2015. Please do not go back and forth with ridiculous statements that make little sense…the way you put it Fed should have never been beaten at Wimby but he was….
Well said nats! But you cannot explain to those who chose not to listen.
Also Djoko’s record on clay is not even as good as Fed’s, let alone Rafa’s. Also Fed, nearly 30, beat Djoko in 2011 RG when Djoko was 24 and in “God mode”. So probably prime Fed on clay is better than prime Djoko on clay.
In most of the RGs , when Djoko wasn’t #1 or #2, Djoko was in Rafa’s half so it isn’t as if it was thanks to Fed that Rafa won the other RGs.
So kindly explain, nats, what is it that you find so hard to understand?
I think you are constantly misinterpreting my words…and it’s pointless to argue about something that you fail to comprehend in the first place…I am not talking about past records…I am talking about current level of play…past records exist for memories….current level is what we discuss and make predictions about…
Rafa lost to Novak already in 2015…he knows what to do to beat him in 2016…that is all what matters to me…
hawks finally we seem to agree on something! Our similar posts crossed! Cheers!