Seeds at the upcoming World Tour Finals were finalized on Saturday when David Ferrer lost to Andy Murray in the semis of the BNP Paribas Masters. Ferrer will move up inconsequentially from No. 8 to No. 7 but could have climbed all the way to fifth with the Paris title.
Seeds
1) Novak Djokovic
2) Andy Murray
3) Roger Federer
4) Stan Wawrinka
5) Rafael Nadal
6) Tomas Berdych
7) David Ferrer
8) Kei Nishikori
Draw format
1) Novak Djokovic – in pool A
2) Andy Murray – in pool B
3) Roger Federer – cannot be with Wawrinka
4) Stan Wawrinka – cannot be with Federer
5) Rafael Nadal – cannot be with Berdych
6) Tomas Berdych – cannot be with Nadal
7) David Ferrer – cannot be with Nishikori
8) Kei Nishikori – cannot be with Ferrer
Djok, Rafa, Berdych and Wawa in one half and the rest in Muzz’s half.
that’s your prediction?
That is the draw with the best chance for Rafa to advance to the finals as it ensures Rafa doesn’t meet Djok in the semis and one of the two other players who have excellent records in indoor hardcourt and with the best chance of beating Djok would meet Djok in the semi.
can Fed beat Novak? Sure he can. Will he? No way…
I think Wawa and Ferrer are the ones Novak does not want to see in his draw…It would be true for Kei as well but Kei is not 100% fit and Novak would make an easy work of him. Why do I think so? Because they are the ones who will make Novak work hard. Ferrer never gives up and will force Novak to run for the money…Wawa I think believes he can beat Novak so will be a tough opponent for the Serb.
Although I would prefer Rafa not to be in Novak’s half I think it would be better for Rafa. He could lose one match vs Novak and still make the semis…and then the pairs in the semis could be: Novak Vs Andy and Rafa vs Fed…even if Rafa vs Andy (it could be that Andy is not interested in going deep due to DC final obligations) it will stil be interesting to see if Rafa’s confidence would go high due to reaching semis thus allowing him to play a very good match..and possibly emerge victorious…
and we would end up having a dream scenario: Novak vs Rafa fighting for the trophy… 🙂
Ferrer? Why?
I think Novak wants to avoid physically demanding matches when meeting players out of top 4. Berdy mostly relies on the serve and he does not engage in long rallies. Nishi is not fit enough to make Nole work hard. So, out of these three I think Ferrer is the least preferable for Novak…Although Ferrer stands no chance of beating Nole, he will run like hell and fight for each game. He could therefore tire Novak a bit…I hope… 🙂
ok, I change my dream draw
Djok, Rafa, Wawa and Ferrer in one half, rest in Muzz’s half.
I don’t think Novak has anything to worry about when it comes to Ferrer. Novak is more than fit enough to deal with Ferrer. Stan is another thing entirely. When he’s on his game, then he can be tough for Novak.
There is always the possibility that Fed can beat Novak on this surface. But I don’t think that Fed has looked as good as he did at the USO.
What is wrong with the WTF format is that it results sometimes in farces like a player qualifying for semis because somebody else won in 2 sets instead of 3 or something like that.
WTF could be single elimination with top 16 ( ensures 15 matches).
Or some kind of modified RR with lesser number of players ( less than 8) but decided only by wins, not number of sets won or lost etc.
Mary (at 5:57 pm),
If three players are tied in their group, then the final standings in the group will be determined by the highest percentage of sets won. (If they are still tied, then by the highest percentage of games won. And there are next rules…)
[Source: The 2015 ATP Official Rulebook]
For example, the 2012 draw, Group B:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2012/605/mds.pdf
.
came in to play the year Murray lost to Delpo by like 1 game
Ricky Dimon (at 6:53 pm)
The 2009 draw, Group A – only one game separated Delpo and Murray:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2009/605/mds.pdf
craziness
If Rafa gets his head together i.e (anxiety disorder), he should do well.
If that happens Rafa will do well anywhere anytime.
Wrong, Rafa’s deterioration in game is not caused by anxiety but his anxiety is the result of his not having his A game.
# howmanytimes?
this discussion ended like 10 hours ago
what I like about WTF is that it reminds me of the Football Champions League…you lose a match but still can win the trophy…with some luck Rafa can be in the finals and then anything is possible… 🙂
What would be your dream draw for Rafa?
I would go for Novak, Wawa, Rafa and Ferrer…
Nishi gets extra energetic when meeting Rafa so I do not want to see him on the opposite side of the net even though he may be not be fit enough…therefore, Ferrer is the better choice for Rafa…and I do not think Rafa has any mental barrier when playing Ferry…
Rafa has already beaten Wawa this fall…I still think Rafa was supposed to win the quarterfinal match in Paris…so Wawa is definitely my second choice for Rafa to get the win..
and Novak…well Rafa should play freely…win or lose it does not matter…and he will not see Novak before the finals…so focusing on the semis would be his immediate goal and then if meeting Novak in the finals Rafa can give his all…
Rafa obviously wants to be with Murray…as does everyone else
At first I didn’t want Rafa in Novak’s group, because I think he would be Rafa’s toughest opponent, but I can see where you and Mary are coming from and I’d go along with your pick. Mind you, this means that the groupings will turn out to be something completely different.
does Nadal want Fed or Wawrinka?
I think Berdych would prefer Nishikori. I think everyone else would prefer Ferrer.
Dream draw for Rafa would be him ferrer Andy and Stan.
He wants Stan. He’s 1-5 indoors vs Roger..
and World Cup, etc.
Federer’s dream draw would be him Murray berdych and ferrer.
i bet Nadal will get himself!
That leaves Rafa with his dream draw: Djokovic, Wawrinka, .Nadal, Nishikori
@ Ricky 6:53,
Andy will definitely beat (maybe not in the easiest fashion!) either Ferry or Berdy…I do not want him to meat Rafa in the group as he becomes a different Andy when facing Rafa…he tends to give his all against Rafa just to end up losing his next match…so he would then probably be able to qualify for the semis, most likely meeting Nole in the semis and would fade away making it easy for Nole to reach the finals (if Andy gets to the semis he will probably give up the fight as that would already be a good result and he could leave to get ready for DC)…whereas Fed vs Wawa would be the second semi with Fed reaching the finals in a fairly easy manner…that scenario I definitely would not like… 🙂
Ferrer and Berdy don’t go into the pot together. Murray’s choice is between Ferrer and Nishik.
irrelevant…my point is that Andy can beat Ferry or Nishi any time..so the rest of the group would consist of Rafa plus Fed…I assume Andy (given his current form!) will definitely lose to Fed, and it remains for Andy to make every effort to beat Rafa (which I am sure he will as he suddenly turns into a fit determined player when meeting 2015 version of Rafa)…this way Andy makes the semis…and there he will stop…
Don’t forget, the draw will be LIVE on Sky Sports News at 7.45 pm tomorrow.
i dont understand why it is not until Thursday evening. makes no sense.
Maybe they want all the players to be present at the draw ceremony.
[polldaddy poll=9175349]
i doubt it, but it’s possible. if that’s the case, not a reason worth delaying the draw three days for.
Well then at least we will know who ends up where. Then we can discuss what chances each of them have and how far they will go.
I dont recall there being anything like this level of discussion before previous WTFs
You are all on overdrive this year 🙂
there is much more discussion in general this year, so it makes sense…. natural progression!
Then I don’t think Ricky has devoted so many column inches to the WTF before.
Must be because he’s attending this year,
i did the exact same thing last year…. and attended last year!
That I didn’t know. Thinking about I don’t think I focussed on 2014 WTF. If I did I must have experienced a whole week of CRAFT moments.
but yes, you are still correct about more discussion
Every year, we Rafans had the satisfaction that the season had gone well, no matter what happedned at the WTF. This year, WTF is about salvaging something out of the annus horribalis 🙁
come onnnn guys! WTF has its issues, agreed BUT it can be a fun tournament too. AND, let’s be honest, the only reason you guys demean it to a level of an exhibition tournament is because Rafa has never won it. Had rafa won 4-5 WTF titles and novak/fed had never won it, you guys would have elevated WTF’s level big time! hehehe
But rafa makes perfect sense. Why always indoor hard! I believe they have had WTF on outdoor hard in the past once but rafa’s always gotten indoor hard….unfair to say the least.
@Ricky, when are you coming to London?
I do have to agree with vamosrafa as to why some Rafa fans demean this tournament. I do think it’s because Rafa has never won it. As was said, if Rafa had a bunch of titles at the WTF, then Rafa fans would think it was the holy grail!
Having said that, I personally don’t love this tournament. I don’t like that it’s always on indoor hard courts. I agree with Rafa and think he’s spot on in his comment. I don’t think that’s fair. I also don’t love the round robin, but I guess it’s the best format for these top eight players.
At least we know that Rafa’s been playing better lately and he’s in it this year! He couldn’t play it last year. So that’s a good thing. A chance to see more of Rafa and also the other top eight.
vamosrafa ” let’s be honest, the only reason you guys demean it to a level of an exhibition tournament is because Rafa has never won it.”
Oh who are these “you guys” ? Rafa fans? Sorry you are trying to see mirror image of anti-Rafans in Rafa fans. It is not Rafa fans who discount WTF because Rafa did not win it. By that analogy they should be discounting Miami. On the other hand , Anti-Rafans discount clay because Rafa is so good on it.
Are you seriously saying that WTF deserves to have ranking points? It is not an OPEN event. That itself should make it ineligible.
The venue is not even a professional tennis venue. See how Wimbledon, the other slams and Masters maintain the surfaces.
WTF venue I think is an entertainment venue used for music concerts or whatever and hastily converted to a court just before WTF. It doesn’t even deserve professional tennis event status. Even before Rafans discounted it, many players tanked or skipped the event.
It definitely does not deserve ranking points.
It should be treated as a year end extravaganza starring the top 8.
“I think is an entertainment venue used for music concerts or whatever and hastily converted to a court just before WTF.”
Have you ever been there? The tennis venue in the O2 is awesome.
The tennis venue is no doubt an awesome entertainment complex but I am talking of the tennis court. is it really a professional tennis court?
I haven’t been there but I heard it is an entertainment venue and is used for tennis only when WTF comes along. If I am wrong, I would be happy to stand corrected. I also heard the tennis court surface is not of professional playing standard. You can verify and report.
Vamosrafa. The first edition of the event at the O2 turned into a near disaster. Most of the players were on their knees from exhaustion; terrible scheduling with matches going on till the early hours of the morning long after all public transport had stopped; then the fiasco when it took 20 minutes to calculate who went forward to the SF etc.
As for Rafans demeaning the event, that has its roots in the regular bouts of trolling instigated by Maxi that brought us to our knees e.g. the WTF is the 5th slam, is far more prestigious than an Olympic gold. blah, blah.
The audience is also very different. Because it is the O2 it pulls in a lot of people who wouldn’t normally attend a tennis match and is promoted worldwide as a tourist attraction to take in while in London. The razzamatazz is ramped up year on year which IMO also helps to make it more of a carnival event than a deadly serious contest.
I am not against it per se and yes I would prefer it if Rafa had added it to his c.v. But I do get tired of the frenzied hype which starts in January each year with the so called Race to London and culminates in November when the the draw is revealed.
In its favour is that it is a money spinner for the ATP and it reaches and hopefully attracts a wider audience to the sport. I have no idea what the players really feel about the WTF and whether in private they hold it in the same high regard as the people promoting it.
Last night they looked puzzled, ill at ease and pretty bored 🙂
ed251137(at 12:20 pm),
— then the fiasco when it took 20 minutes to calculate who went forward to the SF—
===
.
I don’t know why it took 20 minutes to calculate, but A.Murray seemed to know the rule.
BBC Sport, November 27, 2009: ¤¤ Andy Murray went out of the ATP World Tour Finals in bizarre fashion as the group stage came down to the percentage of games won.
…
“I knew if I won the match then there was only one way I couldn’t go through, and that was Del Potro winning in three sets and then I think it would go down to the GAMES WON,” he [Murray] said after the match.
“I just had to focus on winning and then there’s a very slim chance of me going out.”
Unfortunately for Murray, that SLIM chance proved to be the REALITY as Del Potro won the final set with the only score that would put Murray out – 6-3. ¤¤
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8378944.stm
The other person who already knew the answer was Federer.
ed. great post. It is very annoying that the Rankings race is called the Race to London as if the players sole motivation for playing on the ATP is qualifying for WTF!!! That sounds absurd, like the tail wagging the dog or something.
what should it be called? There are regular “rankings” for the non-London race. All that matters in the “race” is London, so why should it not be called that.
It can be called the Rankings Race. Why to London? It trivializes the struggles and triumphs of the tour and is misleading. The race is for top rankings, not for qualifying for WTF which is only incidental. If the top 8 were gifted “x”, would you say the players on the ATP tour are in the race for “x” ( replace “x” with anything).
Mary says:
November 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm
—It is very annoying that the Rankings race is called the Race to London as if the players sole motivation for playing on the ATP is qualifying for WTF!!!—
===
.
The Race, indeed, has NO other purpose than to qualify for the WTF, the year-end tournament (currently held in London).
The new Race (to London 2016) will start on the Monday following the WTF – on Nov.23, 2015.
The Race will be “the Race to London” until at least 2019, because the WTF will be held in London in 2016 – 2018.
🙂
I just wanted to say that the tennis channel classic series is showing the 2009 AO final with Rafa and Fed at 8:00 pm eastern time tonight!
YIPPEE!
2015 Barclays ATP World Tour Finals Official Launch and Draw –
LIVE STREAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxLHgoHgx4M
thanks!
Augustao: Is this BST or has it already been adjusted to BST+1 for European time?
I would’ve thought it would be BST as the draw is in London but 2hrs.34min from now is definitely European time.
yes, its in 2.5 hours
?Thanks
Draw updates?
Not long to wait
Doubles draw started
Boris Johnson just told them it’s entirely fixed. Hilarious
Djoko
Fed
Berdy
Kei
Murray
Stan
Rafa
Ferrer
Fedal semifinal in the mix now. Pretty good mix of top players in each draw in fact we have two of the big four in each one.
Djokovic v Nadal Final ?
Good draw for Rafa. Avoided the two best indoor players ATM. Hopefully he can make semis and face Fed as he was close to beating him in Basel.
yeah, but Rafa has to finish first in his group, otherwise he will meet Novak in the semis…
Unless Fed beats Nole.
Cannot see Djoko losing to Fed. We’ll see.
i can see it. i certainly wouldn’t predict it as of now. unless Djoker somehow plays terribly against Nishikori, then maybe.
You must have missed the two times he already did this year
Certainly I don’t know anything. Simply going on maybe Kei feeling good, able to sneak the 2nd set, but Djoko no nonsense, wins, 6-0 or 6-1 in decider.
Your first sentence agreed.
let’s bet on it.
Relax. Your avatar is appropriate.
that was their 02 match last year!
Yes. Thought it sounded familiar! Nishikori will play possum 1st set, make Djoko overconfident and ninja the 2nd set. Djoko put down the hammer in the end.
That’s racist.
It’s not either
Chose my avatar for you, hawkeye. It’s what I see when I read your posts.
Add another fan to the pile. Get in line.
What the…? you confuse me again.
Hawkeye: ” You must have missed the two times he already did this year”
Can you be more clear please? Who is the (he) to which you refer? Fed? okay. But Fed/Djoko? I’d go with the more recent results.
I snap My fingers et voila, new avatar!
#YoureWelcomeMyFan
#Humb1e
#HawkeyesHaus
#MembershipHasItsRewards
Take it easy. New avatar still makes me think of you.
Have read these comment sections enough to know we agree sometimes and really don’t at others.
Good!
As I’ve said before, I barely agree with half of what I say here. 🙂
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTo1ZNkUwAAHCFo.png
adline10 says:
November 10, 2015 at 2:21 pm
This would be my preferred draw for Rafa:
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Federer……………………………………………Wawrinka
Berdych……………………………………………Nadal
Ferrer………………………………………………Nishikori
Swap Ferrer for Nishikori and I was right.
Speaking of the Group names, U.Toni is probably happy that Rafa is in the Ilie Nastase Group. I.Nastase became Toni’s idol after he saw Nastase playing in Barcelona in 1972 and Toni started to play tennis because of that. 🙂