Arguably the best annual day of tennis will take place on Monday, when all 32 remaining singles players–men and women–will be in action. Among those on the schedule are Rafael Nadal, Gilles Muller, Marin Cilic, and Roberto Bautista Agut.
(4) Rafael Nadal vs. (16) Gilles Muller
Nadal and Muller will be squaring off for the fifth time in their careers when they battle for a spot in the Wimbledon quarterfinals on Monday. The head-to-head series stands at 4-1 in favor of Nadal, but his lone loss to Muller has come at none other than the All-England Club. That is where the left-handed Luxembourgian upset the Spaniard 6-4, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4 during second-round action in 2005, not long after Nadal had captured his first of now 10 French Open titles. Since then, however, Nadal has won three in a row against Muller–including a measure of 7-6(6), 7-6(5), 6-0 revenge at Wimbledon in 2011. The two veterans most recently faced each other at the 2016 Indian Wells Masters, with Nadal getting the job done 6-2, 2-6, 6-4.
This, of course, is not the same Nadal whom Muller toppled in 2005. The 15-time Grand Slam champion is now a two-time Wimbledon winner, having triumphed at the AELTC in 2008 and 2010. Although Nadal has struggled on grass in recent seasons, he is armed with a clean bill of health this time around and is coming off a dominant performance at Roland Garros. So far this fortnight he has defeated John Millman, Donald Young, and Karen Khachanov without dropping a set. Muller punched his ticket to the second week by beating Marton Fucsovics, Lukas Rosol (9-7 in the fifth), and Aljaz Bedene. The world No. 26 is a stellar 26-12 this season with the first two titles of his career–including on the grass courts of ‘s-Hertogenbosch. Muller may be a particularly dangerous opponent on this surface, but Nadal’s current form is such that the players who have a legitimate shot to beat him at Wimbledon this year can be counted on one hand. And that list should not include anyone other than Andy Murray, Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer, and Marin Cilic.
Pick: Nadal in 4
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(18) Roberto Bautista Agut vs. (7) Marin Cilic
Cilic already registers at a respectable 11th in the race to the World Tour Finals and his favorite time of year–Wimbledon through the U.S. Open–is just now beginning. The 2014 U.S. Open champion and current Cincinnati title holder has built on a strong clay-court swing with a semifinal showing in ‘s-Hertogenbosch, a runner-up performance at Queen’s Club, and a trio of straight-set victories at the All-England Club (over Philipp Kohlschreiber, Florian Mayer, and Steve Johnson).
Up next for Cilic on Monday is a fourth career showdown against Bautista Agut, who trails the head-to-head series 2-1 but got the best of their most recent encounter via a 6-4, 7-6(5), 7-5 decision at the 2016 Australian Open. The Spaniard, who comes in 13 spots behind Cilic at No. 19 in the world, earned a place in the last 16 by taking out Andreas Haider-Maurer, Peter Gojowyczk, and Kei Nishikori. Bautista Agut is an outstanding 29-11 in 2017, but as usual he has struggled against upper-echelon opponents. Cilic certainly qualifies as such right now–especially on grass.
Pick: Cilic in 3
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Rafa usually has one “bad” match during a Slam and the way the draw was for him, he really did not have much room to maneuver. First 2 matches were really to acclimatize since he did not play any lead up tournaments. From Khachanov it was already serious. I was resigned to this result after he went 2 sets down.
I am disappointed, wanted to watch more Rafa but……….
On the bright side, this gives him more rest to prepare for the NA swing.
Benny, wherever you are, I am happy for you. I gave Gilles no shot to win this match, and he proved me wrong. I feel really bad for Rafa- he fought so hard. Although he did have his chances, I don’t think that losing in 4th round at Wimbledon diminishes the incredible season Rafa has already had. He will still be one of the favorites for just about every big tournament for the rest of the season, and still is in prime position to get to/finish #1. I know that all you Rafa fans are disappointed, but there is so much bright side for you to look on this season. If Rafa played this well on grass, think about how formidable he will be on the NA hardcourts… Let’s just pray he continues to stay healthy.
As for Gilles Muller, he came through arguably the greatest match of his career, and in my opinion, a Wimbledon classic. Big up to him. He is certainly going to have his hands full in the next round, especially considering how drained he will be. Even though Rafa wasn’t Wimbledon-finalist-level Rafa yet in 2005, not too many people can claim to have beaten Rafael Nadal twice at Wimbledon, so good on Muller for that.
All-in-all, that was an insane match. One of the best of the year in terms of suspense.
I’m here and beyond happy Kevin. Can’t stop smiling because my man Muller got the biggest win of his career. I don’t think I’ve ever been more nervous and loud during a match pulling for my guy Gilles. Commiss to Rafans. He fought his guts off as usual, hitting the most aces he’s ever hit in a match. I won’t literally say I told you so but I will say I literally predicted this kind of result because Gilles’ serve and clutch play in general and he literally won off of that. So please don’t assume I’m picking because I’m a Fed fan who wants Rafa to lose lucky. I knew this was very possible from the start of the tournament but you acted like I was just picking it because I’m a fan of Roger and overestimating the grass court prowess of Muller. Anyways that match was epic and one of the greatest I’ve ever watched. Incredible level from both especially in the fifth.
Nah Benny, you certainly won’t have predicted it to be this close! You probably thought it would be 6-4 or 7-5 the last set and not 15-13! Rafa in fact had won more points than Muller, seven more but probably during set three and four.
Rafa had himself to blame, for playing crappy to lose serve in the first two sets; had he played like he did in set three and four, right from the beginning, the first two sets would be more competitive!
And I certainly didn’t foresee him to be so edgy and nervous, I thought he would come out all ready to battle! My mistake, for overlooking Rafa’s nervy nature when playing on grass; on clay he wasn’t like that, la decima at stake notwithstanding.
So, who will hear of Muller after Wimby? Nobody. This is what rankles for me Wimby rewards these one-trick-ponies and they disappear into the shadows after. You don’t hear of them till next grass season. So frustrating. Nxaaaaa……
I honestly do not see Muller giving Cilic any trouble. In fact, I would not be surprised to see him retire mid match…….
You’re obviously butthurt about your guy losing. Muller should do pretty well at the US Open too. He can play ok all surfaces and has at least one ATP final on every surface.
He can play ON all surfaces. My bad
Please name the finals he has made on those surfaces you mention. I do not normally count losses as wins but please do go on…………..
Please check the list of Wimbledon winners, all of them are real champions. Only slam without one-trick-ponies.
Huh? Ivanisevic, Stich, Krajcek, Cash for examples? Sorry to interrupt.
Thank you @Lucky. The list goes on and on. Who can forget Roscoe Tanner, for example?
Each of them have multiple titles, real champions, not 1 match spoilers.
No, you missed my point completely……….
Muller has never won Wimbledon.
His only clay final was Estoril earlier this year where he lost in tight final to Carreno Busta. Has made four hard court finals in 2004 Washington, 2005 Los Angeles, 2012 Atlanta, and 2017 Sydney which is where he got his first title. On grass he made the final at Newport and s’Hertogenbosch last year and made the final in s’Hertogenbosch again this year and won it which was a few weeks ago.
But Benny G, those are 250 and maybe one or two 500 tourneys, no? Not very difficult going deep there, no?
Making the quarters at Wimby is a big deal, that’s my point, or the quarters of a Masters tourney. That is what I am talking about. You hardly see Muller’s head above the parapet at these tourneys, that is what I mean.
Yeah I see what you mean. He hasn’t had glory at slams and masters much. I personally classify a journeyman as someone who spends most of their career toiling at the challenger level or having very little success at the tour level at all. That’s why I kind of disagreed with calling him a journeyman but I see what you’re saying now.
Of course he can play on all surfaces, that is why he is ranked #26 but that dos not make him a contender on all surfaces. You are obviously very happy he beat Rafa today, good for him but please do not exaggerate. He is a superb grass court player, a journeyman on the rest.
Quarters of US Open in 2008. But ok. Just saying he ain’t going away after this run. Muller has good shot at top 15 by end of the year.
2017 appears to be a break-out season for him, let’s see how he does against Cilic, that will give us a good idea on whether this is truly a break-out season for him.
If he beats Cilic then I will agree with you, he will be dangerous rest of the season on HC. Until then, I am erring on the side of caution…………
I am not ready to say if Muller is anything but a journeyman player. Let’s see what happens with Cilic. I don’t know about a breakout season at the age of 34!
Well, I’m being charitable here to Gilles. His 2 career titles came in 2017 and today’s result is a big deal. He will get massive ranking points, a tidy payout and the notoriety of besting Rafa Nadal.
Let’s see if he capitalists on that……….
“Capitalises”
He’s won two titles and made the Wimbledon QF at age 34 and is approaching top 20 and has more grass court wins than anyone right now. In my opinion, this is already a breakthrough season for him. Maybe not a humongous one but still a breakthrough imo.
Well actually he’s arguably had more success in his career on hard courts. He’s just become a fantastic grass courter the last couple of years. Before 2014 or so he mostly had success on hard courts, making 2008 US Open quarters and 500 event semis and final on hard courts. He is a formidable opponent on grass especially now and still dangerous on hard courts. Clay obviously not as much of a threat.
Rafa needs to skip the grass season from now on just as Fed is slipping clay. Play to your strengths and avoid the weaker surfaces. Listen rafa please.
All of you saying good NA hc season but I frankly don’t know what to exoect to be honest. It can end just like 12 n 14 or go on to become like 2013.
Agreed Sanju! After today’s loss, I really think that Rafa just can’t win on grass anymore. He usually goes deep in all those clay events, and so he will have a hard time adjusting to grass. He’s not going to forego any clay events, so its better that he skips grass completely, like Fed skipping clay.
He’ll be 32 next year, his body just can’t cope with the change of surface so soon after the clay season. His confidence playing on grass has long been dented, so it’s getting harder for him to overcome his nerve when playing on grass. Rafa is not a confident person to begin with!
I am of following your argument here, he should skip 4 matches, why? To avoid losing? To avoid big servers? I don’t get it, losing is part of the game. I can understand Fed skipping the clay season, it’s made up of 5 tournaments and clay is gruelling. You cannot say the same about grass.
Rafa is not the only one facing a sharp turnaround from clay. Wawa lost early, should he also skip Wimby?
Agree, Rafa does not have enough preparation because of the quick turnaround from clay to grass but it’s just that he has been unlucky to draw big servers, he has to find a way to counter them, I think.
Nah, so he’s been unlucky for five years now! Don’t blame the big servers/big hitters, blame himself! He had his chances but didn’t take them.
All players, including the other big four guys, have to face big servers/big hitters during all those years they played at Wimbledon. Fed had to face Cilic and Raonic for examples; Djoko had to face Cilic and Anderson; Murray had Jerzy and Raonic; they did beat these big servers most of the times.
The problem lies with Rafa, not with the draw or the big servers. He has his chances but couldn’t take them. I say he should skip Wimbledon because, one reason of which is also to avoid injury esp to his knees. The change of surface so soon after clay season may do more harm to his body as he gets older. He slipped and fell a few times today, I hope he didn’t hurt himself, as the US HC season is just three weeks away.
Why risk injury playing on a surface you won’t win on, and has so little time to adjust to?
Totally agree with you on who should shoulder the blame: Rafa. That is why I said he needs to figure out how to deal with the big servers who appear to give hi so much trouble. Running away a will not solve the problem, he has to solve his return game problem.
I did not watch the match today, what was the precipitation like? Was it damp? If it was then that would explain the slips and stuff.
Muller was always going to be a tough match for him. Not taking anything from Muller but Rafa did not do himself any favors by going 2 sets down, that was not smart playing a guy like Muller whose specialty is grass.
If he’d drawn Mannariano, Paire or even the Fog, do you think Rafa would have lost today’s? I don’t. It’s tough luck for him but I do not think that is a reason to bail. Regarding the other years he lost early, we all know the reasons and they did not apply today. Today Rafa was healthy, he was just beaten by the better player on the day.
Well, who knows, he may lose to Foggy or Paire too! Don’t blame the luck of the draw, as I said, the other guys also have their fair share of not so lucky draw too. The problem lies with him, can he solve the problem? Well it looks like he’s not going to!
Nothing could help him if he continues to play such nervy game, I mean, who ask him to play so poorly in the first two sets? In his after match presser, he himself admitted he played poorly to lose his serves in the first two sets and so had to play from behind in the score the whole match, and that gave him pressure. When he’s always 0-15, 0-30 in his service game(in the fifth set), he had to fight so hard to hold serve and then what happened in the end happened.
I mean who ask him not to play the way he played in the third and fourth sets right from the beginning, but had to wait till back against the wall, then he raised his level? He had the game, but was too nervous from the get go to play it and that’s the problem. Muller could play his best tennis from the get go, cool as a cucumber, Rafa couldn’t and to me that’s the difference.
The problem to solve? Calm his nerve; if he can’t, sorry whatever good game that he can have, he just can’t execute it.
I didn’t think he played significantly better in the third and fourth sets. Muller started to miss a lot more first serves and was giving Rafa a lot more looks in his own service games with more double faults and sloppy play which then allowed Rafa to play with more confidence and freedom in his own return games. Only at the start of the fifth did Muller start to rekindle that automatic serving rhythm he had going in the first two sets. I think he started to think about the finish line and tighten up once he got the two set to love lead.
Agreed Rafa’s draw was tough . He can’t lose against Paire and the lefty frenchman. But Rafa needs to improve his serve a bit more. Even more than that, heneeds to improve his returns.
Seriously, I do not think he would lose to Foggy or Paire. I agree with @Fedexal, Rafa’s draw was loaded. No way we can compare Paire or Mannarino to Muller.
Having said that, Rafa had plenty of chances to win yesterday, he did not take them. Strategically, it was a bad move to go down 2 sets because that guaranteed a 5th if he was going to win. To play 5 sets and then expect to win against Cilic, possibly Muzza next and then Fed or Djokovic, not smart, especially at his age. Rafa should have come out all guns blazing like he did against Khachanov, plant some doubt in Muller early on. 3 sets, that is what he should target, with a 5-setter maybe in a final.
Rafa is only 31, he has plenty of Wimby campaigns in him. I disagree that he should boycott Wimby because he loses there so much. If that is the argument then he should boycott the WTF’s and Miami for the same reason.
I’ll tell you what though, I wish he would skip the indoor season except WTF. He should concentrate on outdoor HC and make a tilt for USOPEN.
Should have, could have, doesn’t matter now. Important thing is he is healthy.
Oh no Novak match pushed to tomorrow ..this is bad. He will now have to play 2 consecutive days. Advantage Federer.
easy match for him tomorow. less than 2 hours
This loss will not and should not diminish his( rafa’s) achievements this year, i don’t think R. Nadal can reach number 1 again, even if he does he won’t last long.
But i know that he will remain competitive and will win some trophies along line that’s what makes great player and R. Nadal is a great player.
#Don’tgetdiscouraged
Muller played extremely well, cool and collected, even though he made several stupid drop shot decisions, in the final few games he changed his approach to what had worked.
Had Nadal been serving first it’s pretty clear he would have won. I think he served to stay in the match 8 or 9 times. Incredibly clutch from both. About his serving position, he moved further back for the 3rd and 4th sets and this helped him win. He hit some great returns. In fact Nadal only lost the 2nd set because Muller got a lucky net cord to break him at the end of the set. Nadal could have won in 4 had things been a bit different.
I have to say that Nadal was extremely classy in defeat even signing autrographs.
I meant Nadal’s ‘serving position’ in the post.
service RETURN position…argh I’ve been watching tennis too long…
Anyway good prediction Benny G.
Stop puting G. Muller down, he was incredible.
If the decide to replay the match again he( muller) would still defeat nadal, Gilles was GILLICIOUSLY amazing, period.
Give honor to whom honor is due.
I’m not putting him down, he showed incredible cool and courage and grass court ability to win this. But the fact is he was fortunate to be serving first in the 5th as Nadal was under constant pressure to hold.
yes i agree with that. all through the final set i kept saying that muller had a huge advantage and that definitely helped him win. would he have saved all those break points if they were match points? i doubt it. he was getting very tight at one stage.
I agree. Serving first in the fifth set was a huge advantage and there is no way to deny it.
I don’t know if Rafa should skip Wimbledon or not in the future. That’s for him and his team to decide. I think it’s tough after today’s result. There is a pattern here. The other top players have had to deal with big servers and have berm able to handle them on grass. But for Rafa it’s more of a problem on this surface. His knees held up and he was playing well. Playing Muller and Cilic back-to-back was always going to be difficult.
Rafa also came into Wimbledon with very little match play. Both Muller and Cilic have played a lot on grass.
Rafa made life tough for himself by going down two sets. It’s never an easy task to come back from that. It took him two sets to read Muller’s serve. He did well to make a match of it.
Rafa did have break chances throughout the match and struggled to convert them. He had chances to break Muller late in the fifth set.
This was a match that came down to a few points. It could have gone either way. Both guys deserved to win. They put it out there.
I felt that Cilic would be too much for Rafa. He’s looking very good now. But I hoped that Rafa would beat Muller and reach the quarterfinals. I wanted him to go past the fourth round. But I just don’t know at this point in his career if he can do it.
I feel for Rafa after battling well over four hours. It’s hard to lose a match like that. But he pushed it to the limit.
NNY, it’s not like he was reading Muller’s serves in the third and fourth sets; to me it’s Rafa raising his game, served better to hold serve and moved inside the court more often to finish the points.
Muller’ s level gone down partly because of Rafa giving him pressure, he didn’t serve that well in these two sets and made more errors. The third and fourth sets had gone by rather quickly. Muller regrouped and started to serve well again in the fifth and Rafa had no answer to Muller’s serves for the whole 135 mins (or thereabout) of the fifth set.
I do feel that if Rafa could play better in the first two sets, he would at least cast some doubts in Muller’s mind, not unlike the third and fourth sets, and then Rafa might have a chance to win one of the two sets. Rafa let Muller won the first two sets too easily I feel, and so he had a hard time chasing from behind the whole match.
NNY, it’s rather upsetting to see Rafa lost in this manner. He looked rather disappointed during his presser, and I can understand why.
He’s playing well this Wimbledon, fit and healthy with no knee issue. He played well to beat his first three round opponents, obviously he and us were happy and I’m sure he and us were thinking he had a good chance of winning the title.
Imo, he has the game to win on grass and wins the title, the problem lies with him not being able to produce his best tennis on grass when he needs to. It’s still his nerve, and confidence issue. He had conquered that on clay but on grass he still had doubts.
I do feel that had he avoided those losses by not playing at Wimbledon when he had injury issues, and so won’t have so many scars (from his losses) he perhaps could have done better on grass, who knows? And so come 2017 when he’s fit and healthy and playing well, he won’t have to deal with nerve and confidence issues!
I’m of the opinion that Rafa will never win on grass again. It’s a pity, that this year he’s fit and healthy yet still can’t go on to win the title, even when he has the game to win it. Who knows how his body/knees will be come next year? He couldn’t make hay while the sun shines this year, really upsetting.
You look at previous history of Nadal’s results, he had trouble against big servers in 2010 as well. Yesterday, losing the second set was terminal, played a lose forehand and was unlucky with one net cord at 30-30. Prior to this he missed 2 BP chances.
Singlehander,
I apologize, i wasn’t referring to your comment, don’t get twisted okay.
I like your name singlehander, is it your real name or nickname?
It sounds cool, if it’s your nickname why did you pick it?
Can you help me pick a cool nickname?
Who is your favourite player in ATP and WTA?
And who do you think will win wimbledon in ATP & in WTA?
Forgive me for asking so many questions, this is the first time am meeting you.
Hey no problem Stanley, no offence taken. I just like players with a single handed backhand, even though I think it’s a less effective shot, there’s something nice about it…I’d say my favourite player is Wawrinka even though he can be very frustrating since he disappears sometimes, but then is clutch the rest of the time. I don’t follow the WTA too closely, although I have nothing against women’s tennis, but men’s tennis really is very competitive right now.
RIght now I still think Murray will win Wimbledon with the crowd behind him, and I think it will be against Djokovic. Federer is not quite playing well enough yet and Djokovic is quietly under the radar with no preessure…
Muller can beat Cilic.
Felicitations to good Rafa fans…..consolation is: his ranking points have increased. He’ll definitely be at the O2 in Nov.
Benny, Rafa did play better in the third and fourth sets; he served better, was more aggressive and that put pressure on Muller, hence Muller started missing his first serves etc. Muller won’t for nothing suddenly served poorly when he only needed one more set to win; even if he couldn’t sustain the level for another set, he could take a breather and then came back to win the fourth; its more to do with Rafa’s high level of play in those two sets.
Come on, you think if Rafa playing the third and fourth set like he did the first and second, he could win the two sets so comfortably??
Rafa spent all his energy chasing from behind to win the third and fourth sets, no wonder he looked more exhausted than Muller was in the fifth set. Muller was smart enough to conserve energy for the fifth, knowing well Rafa had spent much energy chasing from behind to level the match.
Pressure more and more on Nadal to hold serve in the fifth.
I had to stop watching at 10-10 but Muller looked the winner a that stage.
The thing that struck me was that Muller was much more than a tricky serve.He was equal to Nadal in most departments.
So Nadals ‘dismal’ Wimby record since 2012 continues.
Good pick whoever predicted it.
Benny, I should have said.
Acutally , I think that’s a 2-0 H2H Muller has at Wimby over Nadal.
Nope, it’s 2-1, you forgot that Rafa did best Muller at Wimbledon 2011 in straight sets.
Benny, Rafa began the third set by serving well and playing more aggressively, putting pressure on Muller; it’s not like Rafa had seen Muller’s level dropped and so up his own. Rafa was the aggressor in the third and fourth sets; Rafa usually would up his level when his back was against the wall. I mean do you expect him to play mediocre tennis like in the first two sets and lost meekly in straight sets??
Nny!!….Do u know you’re 1st on TDC BRacket atm??
MA,
Really? How? I am in the bottom in the women’s bracket! If it’s the ATP then it won’t last. I went with heart over head and picked Rafa to win. So there goes that one. My head was thinking he could get to the quarterfinals. I think I did two brackets for the men.
I know – it’s just a tennis match! I just feel for Rafa because he played his heart out.
Nny!…Yeah baby!!..you’re the 1st!…On TDC[ATP]… not Tourneytopia k?…but,yeah..don’t know whether it’s going to last or not but ToMMo just 1 point behind u..and d@#$ ToMMo[hehe,sorry ToMMo!]..he picked Andy and u picked wawa…but,he picked Roger and u picked Novak in semis…i guess that also will give an impact for u both..BUT,i’m sure things will change multiple times more come Sunday…But,congrats for now Nny!!!Woohooo!!Love u!!
Also Nny!…don’t think too much about rafa’s loss okay?..it was not meant to be…it’s simple as that…besides,think about the amazing and incredible things that he just gave to us fans only a month ago….Yeah!!…a 10th FO Nny!!…and multiples other winnings on clay too…isn’t that something?When u feel so letdown and frustrated…just think about how amazing he pulled himself from the unknown abyss that he lost himself into last year and the year before…to see him lost at wimby can’t take the joy from seeing him in this form again Nny!!..Nope!…
Besides,just think about how he’s going to tear the NA HC in this hot form when he’s much more comfortable playing there than on grass Nny!…Oh,he’s going to surprise us again Nny!!..believe me!
I still think Rafa was a better player than Muller in 2nd 3rd and 4th set. Just that unlucky netcord game cost him the match. I think Rafa was playing well, but I dont think he could get thru all players and win Wimbledon. He had the most difficult draw out of top 4 . Muller and Cilic were form players unlike Dimitrov and Raonic.
Rafa won’t be able to beat Cilic anyway, if he continues to play with nerve. To me, he really played poorly in the first two sets, quite disappointing, when in his previous rounds, he certainly came out all guns blazing, esp vs Khachanov, another big server, and hard hitter. Had Rafa exert more authority in his game and his serve, he might at least hold serve for a TB or two, and perhaps could have a chance to win a set in the first two. Instead, he played like he had so many things to lose. Muller, otoh, played freely with calm, perhaps he’s really confident about his serve and his grass court game.
Rafa’s problem was his ROS. I mean against a hard hitting baseliner who served big, yes, he could return a bit further behind the baseline, but against a S&V net rushing big server, he should return from close to the baseline, so that he’s not giving the S&V server much space and time to work on his next point when he’s at the net.
Rafa camping so far behind to return serves, had given Muller so much time to position himself well at the net after his serve! Rafa had to run so much to cover such a big area behind the baseline from left to right or vice versus! Such was the poor return strategy from Rafa, no wonder he had problems returning Muller’s serves whole match long!
He returning from so far behind the baseline had enabled Muller to serve out wide so successfully; its like when Rafa was returning Fed’s serves at AO this year; he camping so far back had allowed Fed to serve out wide with successes too.
He playing too much on clay had influenced the way he returned serves, and he couldn’t break away from that mode of play, sad to say. Djoko doesn’t have Rafa’s problems as he basically camped on the baseline to return serves, which is why he’s more successful than Rafa is on grass (and HCs too).
What I don’t understand is why Rafa did not change his ROS position. Rafa should have recognized the need to stand closer. He’s usually good at making adjustments.
I am interested in hearing Rafa’s thoughts on the match. Maybe augusts will post it.
For what it’s worth, I did not think Rafa would beat Cilic if he got through to the quarterfinals. Even before the match I felt that way. But after a tough four plus hour battle, Rafa really would not have been able to do it. But I did want him to get to the quarterfinals.
Oh sorry, into previous post I meant to say – augusta!
Brain freeze by Rafa. It’s obvious that he’s rather nervous, he had too much respect for Muller’s serve, and, it’s at this stage of the tournament where he failed to take the next leap, having failed time and again and never able to cross over this barrier.
He’d rather played it safe, than changed things around when things didn’t go according to plan. It’s sad that after playing more aggressively to win the third and fourth sets, he then reverted back to safer play once Muller started serving well again. He had his chances but he playing from so far back had cost him big time.
Lucky!….I said Rafa had a brain freeze last nite and it did not sit well with my beloved Nny and amy!!hahaha…But,i honestly think that is the case actually…when he lost the 1st 2 sets…he already give us the sign…we just too hopeful to accept it…
Doesn’t matter now….i’m not too disappointed with this loss…his incredible of bagging 10th FO is still lingering sweetly in my mind and soul…this loss CANNOT dampened my wonderful feelings about that…besides i believe Rafa will once again make his march on NA HC pretty soon where he’s much more comfortable playing on it…
That’s the right attitude Mira. Being thankful for what he already has achieved. Lots of Rafans said they’d be happy if he gets past first week. When Roger won AO this year I said to myself everything else he wins this year is a bonus. That was so sweet and satisfying already. They both can have a good run at US open. Cheers!
Hey Eugene!..Long time no chat!!..Hope you’re healthy and i bet veryyyyy happy now considering Rog it seems on the verge to continue his magnificent run this year at wimby…I wish him and u and other Roger fans in here like Joe Smith,Kevin and Benny and other’s whom i forgot to mention the best of luck for the rest of the tournament Eugene…i will be very happy if Rog win again…no doubt about that…
Btw..thank u for your wonderful words Eugene…yeah…it’s no use to feel downhearted about this…it’s not meant to be for Rafa to win it…If we Rafans be honest about it…before the tourney began,we’re all very anxious to see how his knees will hold up on grass…been out from Wimby for 5 years straight before the quarter it’s not an accident Eugene..the problem are bigger than we’re expected…and i guess we Rafans ‘forgot’ of this problem when we saw him marching excellently in the first 3 matches…but the problem is still there..lingering quietly under the surface…i just hope Rafa will wisely learned to handle this problem come USO…He’s also got a ‘demon’ there when he lost painfully to Lucas last year…
Btw,nice ‘talking’ to u Eugene!…Hope we’re going to chat more after this…Good luck for u and Rog and other nice and wonderful Roger fans here like Joe,Kevin,Benny and other’s!…Yeah!…Cheers back Eugene!!Woohoo!!
Yeah Mira, we shouldn’t expect too much, after seeing Cilic in his draw! It’s just that Rafa himself seemed so upset, when I think he felt he was playing well and was hoping to have a chance at the title and yet he faltered again in R4.
What I hate about the loss is that Rafa will once again get nervous in future when he reaches the same stage here at Wimbledon, and when Rafa is nervous, he can’t serve well, loses his serves, has to chase from behind and against big servers he may lose again. It’s a vicious cycle.
Yeah Lucky!…Rafa will definitely get more nervous,not only at Wimby but i’m thinking the nearest slam in USO…He’s also got demon there when he lost to Lucas last year and to Fog the year before…incidentally both defeats also came from a bad loss..that’s what i’m worrying about atm Lucky..i just really really hope,the warrior in him will not quick fighting those demon..he needs to believe that he is in better place atm..not like last years…but,let’s see how he build his confidence in Cincy and Montreal first..i really believe with his current form he will make a deep run in both places..insyaallah!…Vamos Rafa!!!
hey mira, hope you are feeling better today honey?? for me this loss was primarily mental. i said loads of times last night that rafa was very nervous early on and that was probably to do with his early losses in teh past playing on his mind. it’s hard to play freely when you want to win too much. and then you don’t compute what’s going on on court in the same way you would normally. actually moving back further to return in sets 3 and 4 worked and he had loads of break points against muller. he just had to readjust when that stopped working in the fifth. muller was very lucky to be serving first. if he had to face break points as match points like rafa did i don’t think he would have survived. rafa had to play under incredible pressure.
but for me we have to be positive! rafa has just won his 10th roland garros and that’s what really matters.
toni and carlos both talked about the incredible pressure rafa was under at rg with all the talk of the decima. after being under such mental pressure a let down isn’t surprising because it does take its toll. look at nole losing to querrey after winning his first rg!!!
so we should be positive imo….
really hope you are feeling better hon….i left a messge for you yesterday on ttopia….xxxx
Amy!!…How r u today amy?Okay?Not suffered much from rafa’s loss i hope!…As for me..Alhamdulillah..the fever almost gone..the cough too,judging from how stable my house are after i cough,not like before…
Yeah amy!..i am very very agree with u on all counts…not to discredit Muller but if rafa play without nervous like in the 1st week..i doubt he has a chances to win..but yeah..what happen is happened…all rafa needs to do right now is rest and prepare himself for the NA HC properly…i’m pretty sure,if he be able to go deep in Montreal and Cincy..he will get back his confidence to win although come USO is a different matter altogether…but,forget about USO atm….i can’t wait to see to his NA HC campaign…and i’m sure his loss at wimby won’t linger in his mind for long…
Amy!..yeah..i already reply to your msg in Tourneytopia…thank u mucho for your kind and wonderful words amy!!..and i’m also having fun reading your post last nite on TG!!..hahaha…i can’t stop laughing when i read your post amy!!…God!It’s so fun you’re here amy!…Thank u for coming back okay??Love u!!
am feeling very drained today mira!! over four hours of shouting at the tv and swearing like a trooper is very tiring!
very glad you are feeling better today hon…you need to take good care of yourself when you’re not well ….
i don’t see uso as teh same obstacle as wimby mira. yeah rafa’s had some bad losses but not over so many years and he will have warm up tourneys to play his way into form and won’t have the same pressure on his knees.
i am a bit gutted for rafa but honestly a while back i didn’t think rafa would win another slam or get close to number one and now he has 15 slams and could be number one. so we can’t be too greedy can we mira?? munch, munch, more please!!!
take care honxxxxxx
Hahahaha!…amy!!…God!..i pity your TV…hope it not sulking at u the next time u want to watch Rafa on it amy!!…
I wish you’re right about Rafa and USO amy…as for me,can’t wait to hear u swear beautifully once again come USO..it really can lifted my pressure when watching rafa u know…
Yeah,we can’t too greedy amy…it’s incredible to see rafa at this form once again..after 2 gloomy years…i wish him keep on healthy and will add his tally in the future…U take care yourself too k amy!!…Hugs from afar!!
Yes for once we agreed , ROS was the culprit. If you are way behind, its difficult to hit penetrating return, plus if the other guy goes for a drop volley or short valley , you will have trouble getting to it. If you look at 5th set 9-9 all game, Rafa had 4 chances , he was able to get into rally twice. Muller hit a passing shot but Rafa had one long forehand and ther other point where he could not pick the volley from Muller. Muller was beatable in the fifth set as well. Just that Rafa did not change his position whil returning.
There will always be another Wimbledon next year for Rafa. Roger took 7 years to win AO after his last. probably Rafa would do it in 8, 9 or 10 years.
Roger wins slam at agree of 35. Rafa has 20 more slam chances until age 35. just need to get 20% of it to reach 19 slams. very do-able for Rafa. just need to get 3 more RG where he does not have any opposition when he is healthy and one more from another.
Who could beat healthy Rafa in RG?
What is of concern to me is that Rafa seems to be losing 5-setters regularly now, something he never used to do in his prime. Hope his team look at that.
Otherwise, c’mon Rafa! Get up from the floor, dust yourself up and go!
Vamos!!
I was about to post that too but decided not to. At least he won two this season so far at the AO, but lost the next two!
To me this is a big concern because it points to mental fragility. I just replayed the last game of his match against Muller yesterday and Rafa looked fried mentally. Rafa used to be bulletproof in 5-setters. I do not think age has anything to do with it if older guys like Fed and Muller are still bringing it in this regard.
He has doubts, and he playing with intensity is always mentally more taxing, than those who play a more relax style.
Muller doesn’t have Rafa’s burden at Wimbledon, nobody expects him to win Wimbledon anyway, and his style is about his serve and his net rushing, so naturally he relied heavily on his serves and when he’s playing well, he’s serving well and so he’s able to win many points on his serve.
Rafa relies more on his overall game and serve is one of his weakness; on grass the serve is important. He can only serve well when he’s confident, we saw how well he served on clay and even in the three matches prior to this one. Once he’s tense, he has the tendency not to serve well and only when in crucial moments, back against the wall, that he would produce some outstanding serves to get out of troubles. However, in the fifth set he had to do it so many times that he finally faltered.
If you ask me, I think he has to regain confidence playing on grass, if not he’ll just suffer loss after loss, and to regain confidence he has to win matches.
I do feel Rafa should play a warm up event prior to Wimbledon, he doesn’t need to go to Queens, just plays a small event like Eastbourne to test his skills on grass against anyone, to feel the competition on grass, to get used to the grass court.
Djoko has done the right thing imo playing at Eastbourne, you need real competition to see where you’re at, and to improve on where you’re lacking.
Rafa was already doing well to reach the fourth round when he’s playing a game not so suited for grass and having played no warm up event. To me Djoko has a better game (than Rafa) on grass, so he playing only exhos on grass is enough for him to play well to win at Wimbledon.
Rafa is not Djoko so I feel he needs real matches to test his skills and to feel more confident about his game.
I agree with you, playing Eastbourne has to be part of Rafa’s plans going forward if he wants to go deep at Wimby. Queens and Halle would be better because the field tends to be deeper, with literally all the grass specialists playing, but the timing is not good coming barely a week after RG. If fit, Rafa will go deep at all the clay tourneys, likely winning RG so he needs some rest after.
Practicing is not enough, he needs competitive ambiance. He definitely needs to play a lead-up tourney before Wimby.
I remember Rafa commenting that he did not expect Fed to play RG since he had skipped the lead-up tournaments. So Rafa knows the importance of lead-up tournaments, he just has to find the most suitable given his post RG circumstances.
but rafa was warned by his doctor not to play queens because of his knees. he’s always going to have problems adjusting from rg to grass because of this….the other top players don’t have the same physical issues as rafa….
and then there’s the emotional and mental strain and pressure to do with winning rg and the decima. let downs happen….
I think the decision to skip Queens was for Rafa to get much needed rest after his exertions on clay. I did not get the impression there was a specific concern about the condition of his knees. I got the impression team Rafa was happy with his fitness and the Doctor, being part of the team, would be part of that decision to rest.
My understanding regarding Rafa’s knees is that because of the therapies/treatments he has gone through on them, he now finds it difficult to bend his knees continuously as is required on grass court tennis. Team Rafa’s concern was that the constant knee bending would trigger old problems.
Tiggy actually put it well in his post match analysis, he said Rafa wanted so badly to win he lost, meaning he put too much pressure in himself to win and this was his undoing.
gosh tiggy said that?!
i said exactly that last night…and i think many would see the same….he was so on edge in the first 2 sets…that’s where the game was lost really ie he shouldnt have let it go to 5….
i don’t remember the specific details about queens ritb….but it’s quite likely that after rg next year the same advice about rest will be given and i would always want rafa to err on teh side of safety regarding his knees.
those people knocking him ought to think about whether their fave would be doing well if he couldnt’ play a warm up because of physical issues.
and then there is the mental hangover from winning rg and teh exertion involved..ask nole about that!!
@amy, I think Team Rafa made the right decision regarding Queens this year, given the circumstances. That clay swing was a lot for Rafa, going deep as he did in each tourney. The turnaround period from clay to grass is too short even with the extra week before Queens. He has to rest otherwise he would not be doing himself any favors.
None of the contenders goes through what Rafa goes through during the clay season. None of them win Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Madrid, go deep at Rome and win RG. So, we really ought to cut Rafa some slack. As you say, he could have a draw where he does not face any of the big hitters until the quarters say and then, all bets would be off! How many big hitters did Muzza, Nole and Fed face before the quarters?
As long as Rafa is healthy, I give Rafa a winning chance in each tournament he enters.
RITB 3.0 says AT 1:01 PM: “I think Team Rafa made the right decision regarding Queens this year, given the circumstances…”
Yep. I trust Rafa & his team & his doctors (who have known him since his boyhood).
https://www.facebook.com/Nadal/posts/10154900641836026
luckystar says AT 10:00 AM: “Djoko has done the right thing imo playing at Eastbourne…”
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Playing in Eastbourne was the FIRST time Djoko played a grass-court tournament between the FO and Wimbledon since 2010!
If Djoko had won the FO this year, I doubt he would have requested a wildcard for the Eastbourne tournament.
Rafa shouldn’t follow any player as a role model, he has good advisors who have known him for a long time and are aware of his problems. 🙂
just saw the end of it
Rafa was returning like shite and Muller was possessed and on a mission
We’ll always have Paris…..
Rafa lost the first set without making a single UE. He overall made only 17 UEs to 52 UEs of Mulller’s… Rafa had that unlucky net cord that cost him the second set!!He did not play badly last night! The only lousy thing was Rafa’s ROS and his break point conversion! If one fails to convert 14 break points he must end up losing the match! I give credit to Muller for hanging in there and not giving up! At the end Rafa chasing Muller and each time serving to stay in the match as well as failing to capitalize on some chances he was given had took a tool on Rafa’s mental strength…Muller serving well when mattered did not help either…
All in all, Rafa gave it his best and could have as well won it if he had more of the luck…but he didn’t and Muller deserved it! I wouldn’t go that far to say with certainty that Rafa would anyway have lost to Cilic…Nope, nobody could claim that if Rafa pulled this one wouldn’t strive on his confidence to go on and beat Cilic…but, that’s so irrelevant now…
It’s nor fair to Rafa to say that he should skip Wimby from now on…he may as well win it in the future if the stars allgn for him, who knows…
I for one was not optimistic about Rafa’s chances to win Wimby this year…I always thought USO is the second Rafa’s forte when in form…
I just hope this loss does not get to Rafa! He should emerge stronger from this and should just enjoy his successes this year! If he stays healthy he will do wonders in the USO swing!
We are so proud of your fighting spirit! This was your least favorite surface against quality in-form opponent! Yet it could have gone either way…
We love you, Rafa!
Vamos Champ!
First, after 4+ hours of a match, even if Rafa had won, do you think he would beat Cilic? Cilic was playing well, well rested, and full of confidence. I would say Cilic will beat Muller in the QF.
Second, if Rafa can’t play well on grass, why risk getting injury playing on it? Unless Rafa just wants to enjoy playing at Wimbledon without hoping for any title there, then by all means plays with no pressure, no nervy feeling. If he can somehow starts playing well on grass then of course he should carry on playing at Wimbledon, it’s all his choice and his decision.
Third, Rafa looked disappointed about this loss, I feel he had confidence coming to Wimbledon that he could do well, but losing once again in R4, more or less would affect his confidence again. We don’t expect much from him on grass but that may not be what he expects from himself, we just don’t know. Rafa may feel that he lost a good chance of winning, when he’s fit and healthy, riding the confidence of his FO win, and was playing a good enough all round game to win on grass.
Nobody knows how his game, his body will be come next year, and yeah, the stars have to align for him to win Wimbledon, though I feel the possibility of winning the FO and Wimbledon B2B will diminish with time.
@Lucky, do you feel the same way about WTF and Miami, 2 tournaments which spring to mind which he has yet to win? Should he skip those too? It seems to me the argument you are using for Rafa to skip Wimby applies to those 2 tourneys as well.
Nope for WTF, that was the YEC for the top eight guys, and Rafa had no injury issues there in the past, I see no reason for him to skip it. Furthermore, after that event he can have his long year end break, so why skip it?
Yes for Miami. Why? Because it’s just before the clay season and Rafa needs to be fully fit for his assaults on clay, unless Rafa is willing to skip one or even two clay events.
Imo, he needs to be wise in his scheduling, reducing the work load as he gets older. I always find both Fed and Djoko being really good at their scheduling, not overplaying, perhaps that’s why both of them could remain relatively injury free and could dominate the tour for so long.
Not that Rafa is going to dominate, but not overplaying may increase his chances of being fit and healthy and be ready for the important events.
I agree with your take on both WTF and Miami but am still not convinced on your take on Wimby.
Wimby is still worth taking a punt on, with or without playing a lead-up tournament. First prize would be of course to play one. I mean, who knows, the draw might break for him, Muller was stretched by Rosol after all.
I think what really disappointed Rafa about this year was that, unlike the other years when he was knocked out early, this year he felt fully fit. He lost because he did not capitalize on his opportunities, not because his body would not cooperate.
It’s OK, we can disagree but it’s Rafa’s decision to make, not ours. I’m sure Rafa will play at Wimbledon, unless he’s injured.
luckystar says AT 12:07 PM: “I always find both Fed and Djoko being really good at their scheduling”
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I have always said/written that Fed has withdrawn from the tournaments because of his HEALTH issues. It has been ‘good schedulig’ according to Fedfans’ propaganda. 🙂
spot on, RITB! I do not think Rafa should skip any tournament if he is healthy! I also agree with you that Rafa should find the way to improve his court positioning on grass to return better in order to have more chances to beat big hitters. He has already improved his serve and volleys, though should go more to the net on the grass…
Of course Rafa was disappointed for losing this and sure Rafa expected to do well in Wimby and that’s the right mindset of a true champion.. many people here were saying Kachanov could be a stern test and Rafa destroyed him. This match was close and Rafa just was not lucky enough and failed to take his chances!
Rafa will overcome this loss and will come back strong for USO swing!
Rafa is always disappointed to lose and he always shows his disappointment. I just felt he really wanted to win this Wimby and he knows he missed his chances. During his presser, he was very clear he will be back because he enjoys playing on Centre Court.
I am very bullish Rafa will do very well in the NA swing. I hope he takes it easy on the indoor swing and focuses more on the outdoor HC tournaments where he has a better chance of winning and also in preparation for USO.
Because he will just be adding points, it is very likely, he and Fed will end the year as numbers 1 and 2, meaning he may turn up at Wimby 2018 as #1 seed and hopefully they play all his matches on Centre Court as a result.
Rafa loves Wimby and so does Uncle Toni……
I didn’t see Carlos Moyà at Wimby, where was he?
Luckystar says AT 11:16 AM: “…Rafa looked disappointed about this loss, I feel he had confidence coming to Wimbledon that he could do well, but losing once again in R4, more or less would affect his confidence again.”
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Rafa didn’t know before the grass season, whether his knees would hold up or not. If they did, I think, he’ll feel more confident in his knees on the grass in the future.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/rafael-nadal-french-open-title-win-la-decima-10th-time-wimbledon-world-rankings-a7786286.html
To add to my post AT 2:37 PM,
At his post-R3 press conference, Rafa was asked a question about having ‘confidence in his body’.
Question. “You’ve had problems over many seasons with your body, the physical side. Did you ever lose confidence in your body? How did you get to a place where you had confidence in your body?”
RAFAEL NADAL: “When you are under problems, is always that you don’t have confidence with your body, then is much more difficult to play well. If you feel that you are healthy, then you feel confident that you can do whatever you want in terms of practice, and you can move without thinking on anything, just thinking about the ball.
That’s very important because when you are losing little bit of time thinking about how you have to put that leg there because can be painful, then is, I don’t say impossible, but almost.”
I am willing to bet right now Muller will be in Rafa’s quarter, again, next year Wimby………..
Rafa will dispatch him……..
Rafa head hitting the ceilings could be very painful indeed. He jumped up using a lot of power in his legs, that’s what he used to do before the match. He just did not want to show it as that was quite ridiculous situation. that perhaps impacting his game in the first two sets.
lol, no. rafa lost because muller was the better player.
Please give me a break! This match could have gone either way! It turned on a few points!