I have replied both times to your question but can’t track either response. Guess I forgot to press SEND – something which often happens if I’m interrupted and my comments are lost forever.
I can’t think why you thought I thought Hawkeye was somebody’s victim. He’s enjoying the slanging match. I’m trying to guess who will get to have the last word!!!!!!
Now you spell it out I get why my comment gave that impression. The two instances are quite different. The only similarity is they both occurred while Rafa was absent from the scene. However, anybody who hasn’t been following it closely from the off could interpret the current spat as a vendetta. To wit, Chloro jumped in to defend Hawkeye.
When I wrote that it was 2.20pm in Paris. The French were not about to rush their lunch even to support their countryman in the Davis Cup SF. Was worried because Tsonga, more than most, feeds off crowd support and he was up against the ‘rissole’. Fortunately he got the job done in straight sets. Not surprisingly today I’m an honorary frenchwoman 🙂
Council Replaces President in Election That’s More Than a Popularity Contest
Roger Federer Succeeded by Eric Butorac as ATP Player Council President
““I would present him some ideas of what a lot of guys were concerned about, and it would blow his mind,” Butorac said.
Butorac recalled Federer saying, “I can’t believe that guys are concerned about first-round prize money if they withdraw and don’t collect their check.” But, Butorac added, “a $40,000 first-round check to a guy ranked 90th in the world is massive.”
While his fellow council members Simon and Stakhovsky have been outspoken about men deserving more compensation than their female counterparts, Butorac balks at reopening the debate.
“There was a time, the last four years, when the ATP was stronger than the WTA,” he said. “But there’s also times when the WTA was maybe equal to the ATP. So I doubt it’s something that we’re ever going to go back on. So I’m focusing on saying: ‘Let’s grow the whole pie. Let’s work together.’ We have a lot of combined events, and if the facility is right and it’s big and those events have been very successful, so let’s let that continue on and move forward. I don’t think it’s worth going back on that.”
Abstract: “The question of who is the greatest tennis player to have played the game encounters all of the above issues bar the team sport dilemma and this article therefore makes no attempt to answer it. Rod Laver and Bjorn Borg fans can relax. The question of who is the greatest tennis player out of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, however, encounters none of the above issues. This piece therefore aims to compare and contrast these two players alone. It intends to posit that the Swiss is not even as great as the Spaniard and can therefore not possibly be lauded as the greatest of all time.”
It should also be noted that in 2009 Nadal, struggling with tendonitis in both knees, suffered the only defeat of his career at Roland Garros (in the fourth round to Robin Soderling) and was unable to defend his title at the Wimbledon Championships. In his absence Federer won both tournaments and in doing so completed the career grand slam of winning a Major on all four surfaces and broke Sampras’ record number of Grand Slam titles. Few believe he would ever have won the French Open had he had to contend with a fit Nadal.
Clearly, the majority of Federer’s achievements have come when Nadal is not around. Indeed, the Swiss already had twelve Grand Slam titles in the bag before Nadal entered his peak years. This is perhaps not surprising when a quick look at his major rivals pre-Rafa reveals a distinctly different calibre of opponent. Andy Roddick, Lleyton Hewitt and Marat Safin were all good players; but certainly no more than that. When one sees the names of Mark Philippoussis, Marco Baghdatis and Fernando Gonzalez also on the list of Federer’s victims in Grand Slam finals, it suggests that this was not exactly a golden age in men’s tennis.
Well the whole article is well it is My new Tennis DeFacto Bible for this era…
So it is a fact that at this point in history, over the course of significantly less time, and with a clearly superior standard of opponent across the net, Nadal is already ahead of Federer in every relevant statistic you can think of – bar the big one. It begs the question, should Nadal go on to claim 18 Grand Slam titles and eclipse Federer’s record, will Federer advocates acknowledge that their man has been usurped?
The answer is probably not. The truth is that people do not like to admit they are wrong. Federer was hastily coronated in the midst of his domination because nobody foresaw the teenage clay-court sensation from Mallorca developing into the complete player.
“The mainstream press soon followed suit and so long as Sir Roger kept gracing the manicured lawns of SW19 with his white blazer, Rolex watch and deferential acceptance of the Wimbledon trophy each July, few in the public felt moved to question his position at the head of the table. To backtrack a few years later would make a lot of people look rather foolish.”
Hahahahahahahaha, Federazzi(TM) defined!!!
OK I am in such a good mood after reading this that I am adding @nadline10 and @auguasta08 to those lucky people already on the approved list.
I had tears in my eyes reading that Guardian article. Roger Federer is a shameful human being. Those quotes after his 2011 RG loss to Rafa are truly awful and it is such gracelessness which precludes me from seeing any redeeming qualities in him, on and off the court.
it is this that inspired all the satire I used to write on TT, and the feeling intensified greatly because of the sycophanting
with djoker most of his not gracious behaviour is not white washed
and now we come to the real GOAT debate:
who is the greatest of all thegrandstand ?
or of you prefer:
who is the greatest of all tenngrand ?
if you don’t like the all word in there, drop it, and we’ve got the GOT debate
in the Huns’ language GOT simply means, well, god
Thanks for the link to the Guardian article, hawkeye. It’s true that many don’t want to admit that Federer was crowned GOAT prematurely so they are sticking to it even though it rings hollow now.
Eric Butorac replacing Federer as president of the ATP Players’ Council is the best thing. He is not even a singles player and puts the post where it belongs, nowhere. When Federer stood down, I was worried that the Djoker might replace him and I was dreading the puffed chest and the rest, from the president of the Histrionic Personality Disorder Association.
Wait until Federer got the Davis Cup title, I am sure the Fed fanatics especially those on Tennis Warehouse Forum would immediately elevate the status of Davis Cup, unlike how they are dismissing Nadal’s now. This Simon Cambers is not as uber as those on TW, who have hailed Federer’s doubles gold as equal to Nadal’s single’s gold even though they despised Nadal’s OGM before Fed won his doubles.
they claim Davis Cup is one of the biggest perks on his resume for being better than Fed in the GOAT discussion, so we will see how they treat Fed’s inevitable Davis Cup triumph
Ricky, I do not understand what you are saying. Are you saying Rafans will downgrade the importance of Davis Cup once Roger wins it because he has won it? I don’t know which Rafans you hang around but the ones I hang around, including those on Tenngrand, would not do that because it would also be downgrading Rafa’s DC triumphs! Silly.
As far as I know, Rafans have consisted argued for the importance and inclusion of DC in the GOAT debate. So, if Fed wins he will have one, how many does Rafa have? Please.
We Rafans know the moment Rafa snags a WTF title, Fedfans will downgrade it’s status and upgrade the importance of balletic acumen on court. That’s who they are, that’s what they are all about: shifting goal posts. I do not think you can honestly accuse Rafans of that.
……IMO, if Fed adds a DC trophy to his many accomplishments it will bring him closer to GOAT status, of which he currently is not. We will see if Fedfans argue the same.
Ricky Dimon@September 13, 2014 at 2:49 am
—so we will see how they [Rafa fans] treat Fed’s inevitable Davis Cup triumph—
I’ll treat it so that Rafa has been TRIUMPHANT 4(!) times.
Rafa has been a member of the winning Spain Davis Cup team in 2004, 2008, 2009, and 2011 – 4 times!
Mr. Brian Phillips is clearly aiming to win the award for who can pen the most syrupy eulogy to TMF at the creative writing course he attends!
That piece is drowning in every metaphor and simile ever used to describe Federer – although likening his tennis to Zeppelins is a new one on me.
It reminds me of the over-written offerings on the Bleacher Report where contributors try to outdo each other but have not learnt that less can be more.
Yeah Federer is the 2nd best player i have read the guardian’s article very well written.. nobody has dared to bring the other side of pic till now so its refreshing and gopd to know that Rafa is the best player.. and hes has the best h2h vs top 10 vs big 4 n hv winning ratio of all time best GOAT
Ritb, when Fed’s lack of DC titles has been cited as a gap in his GOAThood his fans have always maintained that DC doesn’t count because it’s a team sport.
@nadline10, this is what I have always gleaned from Fedfans. Fedfans have ALWAYS downplayed Rafa’s accomplishments, airbrushed any holes in Fed’s CV, DC included, bigged up all Fed’s accomplishments AND added luster to ridiculous ones! Rafans, otoh, have consistently acknowledged Fed’s accomplishments but refused to be party to biggying up nonsense. We have consistently said DC is important and I cannot see any Rafan changing this because Fed has won it. Like I said, when you look at their respective bodies of work, Rafa outclasses Fed on most important categories and as the Guardian article says, he is second to Rafa. So, if Fed wins DC, kudos to him, he will have moved closer to Rafa, but still second.
change one, two or three of these things in recent history:
1/3 tournaments on hard courts, 2/3 on clay
rafa born the same year as roger
rafa absent from tournaments half as often as he has been
then the stats in about every possible dimension would be even stronger for rafa, including h2h, slam count, 1000s count, weeks at no 1, probably olympic singles, et j’en passé
Not forgetting Fedups also rubbished Olympic Gold in singles – claiming of course that it wasn’t anywhere near as important as the WTF. Naturally had Fed won in 2012 then he would be lauded for having two gold medals.
They have always resorted to puerile arguments to make their case: it’s not worth the effort of even trying to counter them.
They must be gnashing their teeth over the Guardian article which lethally debunked the myth about their hero without once resorting to number crunching.
https://twitter.com/Chris_Umlaut/status/510046223936413696
Empty seats at a slam Rafa Muzza SF?????
You cannot be serious!!!
#ComplimentsToAugusta08ForMakingThisPictureAvailable
#MoveRolandGarrosToSpain
Hahaha!
Hawkeye63 alias Christophe Umlaut has created a Twitter account and ruined the picture I posted in June!
The rude French Crowd ruined your picture.
I repeat.
ed251137@September 10, 2014 at 5:27 pm
Have I understood correctly that hawkeye63 is a victim of somebody? Whose victim ?
https://twitter.com/Chris_Umlaut/status/510067813138964481
#BrokenRecord
@Gussie
I have replied both times to your question but can’t track either response. Guess I forgot to press SEND – something which often happens if I’m interrupted and my comments are lost forever.
I can’t think why you thought I thought Hawkeye was somebody’s victim. He’s enjoying the slanging match. I’m trying to guess who will get to have the last word!!!!!!
Me. I’m staying out of it 🙂
oh like when you’re posting from a phone?
I hate that.
ed251137@September 12, 2014 at 2:05 am
—I can’t think why you thought I thought Hawkeye was somebody’s victim—
You wrote: “… On that occasion I was the one being keel hauled for something I’d said and was branded as a fake Rafan.”
I am wondering if you think that poor Hawkeye is currently in the same situation – a victim.
Now you spell it out I get why my comment gave that impression. The two instances are quite different. The only similarity is they both occurred while Rafa was absent from the scene. However, anybody who hasn’t been following it closely from the off could interpret the current spat as a vendetta. To wit, Chloro jumped in to defend Hawkeye.
God, it’s KILLING Me!!!!
#EmptySeats
What do expect. It’s the sacred French l’heure dejeuner.
ed251137@September 12, 2014 at 12:20 pm
Currently? Where?
Whenever Rafa is playing.
When I wrote that it was 2.20pm in Paris. The French were not about to rush their lunch even to support their countryman in the Davis Cup SF. Was worried because Tsonga, more than most, feeds off crowd support and he was up against the ‘rissole’. Fortunately he got the job done in straight sets. Not surprisingly today I’m an honorary frenchwoman 🙂
ed251137@September 12, 2014 at 2:48 pm
Clear! Hawkeye63 was delighted that you referred to Rafa’s match.
@Augusta08 is My personal….. secretary.
Speaks for Me when I’m unavailable for comment.
#Staff
Council Replaces President in Election That’s More Than a Popularity Contest
Roger Federer Succeeded by Eric Butorac as ATP Player Council President
““I would present him some ideas of what a lot of guys were concerned about, and it would blow his mind,” Butorac said.
Butorac recalled Federer saying, “I can’t believe that guys are concerned about first-round prize money if they withdraw and don’t collect their check.” But, Butorac added, “a $40,000 first-round check to a guy ranked 90th in the world is massive.”
While his fellow council members Simon and Stakhovsky have been outspoken about men deserving more compensation than their female counterparts, Butorac balks at reopening the debate.
“There was a time, the last four years, when the ATP was stronger than the WTA,” he said. “But there’s also times when the WTA was maybe equal to the ATP. So I doubt it’s something that we’re ever going to go back on. So I’m focusing on saying: ‘Let’s grow the whole pie. Let’s work together.’ We have a lot of combined events, and if the facility is right and it’s big and those events have been very successful, so let’s let that continue on and move forward. I don’t think it’s worth going back on that.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/30/sports/tennis/roger-federer-succeeded-by-eric-butorac-as-atp-player-council-president.html?_r=1
#CindiLauper
FINALLY, an unbiased article from a reputable source.
THIS is the truth….
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/the-balls-of-wrath/2014/sep/11/roger-federer-greatest-tennis-player-rafael-nadal
I feel this warrants a trip over to Roger-X.com,
Abstract: “The question of who is the greatest tennis player to have played the game encounters all of the above issues bar the team sport dilemma and this article therefore makes no attempt to answer it. Rod Laver and Bjorn Borg fans can relax. The question of who is the greatest tennis player out of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, however, encounters none of the above issues. This piece therefore aims to compare and contrast these two players alone. It intends to posit that the Swiss is not even as great as the Spaniard and can therefore not possibly be lauded as the greatest of all time.”
Reposted on Tennis-X.com
OMG, how did I ever miss (or forget) this classic Roger quote after he lost to Rafa at the 2011 FO final…
“It’s always me who’s going to dictate play and decide how the outcome is going to be,” Federer said. “If I play well, I will most likely win; if I’m not playing so well, that’s when he wins.”
Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/94966.html#oAhpcvrYyImPfyZ8.99
#FedOrPseudoFed
Choice Quote:
It should also be noted that in 2009 Nadal, struggling with tendonitis in both knees, suffered the only defeat of his career at Roland Garros (in the fourth round to Robin Soderling) and was unable to defend his title at the Wimbledon Championships. In his absence Federer won both tournaments and in doing so completed the career grand slam of winning a Major on all four surfaces and broke Sampras’ record number of Grand Slam titles. Few believe he would ever have won the French Open had he had to contend with a fit Nadal.
Clearly, the majority of Federer’s achievements have come when Nadal is not around. Indeed, the Swiss already had twelve Grand Slam titles in the bag before Nadal entered his peak years. This is perhaps not surprising when a quick look at his major rivals pre-Rafa reveals a distinctly different calibre of opponent. Andy Roddick, Lleyton Hewitt and Marat Safin were all good players; but certainly no more than that. When one sees the names of Mark Philippoussis, Marco Baghdatis and Fernando Gonzalez also on the list of Federer’s victims in Grand Slam finals, it suggests that this was not exactly a golden age in men’s tennis.
Well the whole article is well it is My new Tennis DeFacto Bible for this era…
So it is a fact that at this point in history, over the course of significantly less time, and with a clearly superior standard of opponent across the net, Nadal is already ahead of Federer in every relevant statistic you can think of – bar the big one. It begs the question, should Nadal go on to claim 18 Grand Slam titles and eclipse Federer’s record, will Federer advocates acknowledge that their man has been usurped?
The answer is probably not. The truth is that people do not like to admit they are wrong. Federer was hastily coronated in the midst of his domination because nobody foresaw the teenage clay-court sensation from Mallorca developing into the complete player.
#TearsOfJoy
“The mainstream press soon followed suit and so long as Sir Roger kept gracing the manicured lawns of SW19 with his white blazer, Rolex watch and deferential acceptance of the Wimbledon trophy each July, few in the public felt moved to question his position at the head of the table. To backtrack a few years later would make a lot of people look rather foolish.”
Hahahahahahahaha, Federazzi(TM) defined!!!
OK I am in such a good mood after reading this that I am adding @nadline10 and @auguasta08 to those lucky people already on the approved list.
#YoureWelcome
#ForgivenessIsNextToGodliness
#HawkeyeIsToo
#Humb1e
to hawkeye63
Paraphrasing your posts on Rafael Nadal page today (Thursday), a photo not by augusta08:
Adjusting…’something’…
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnJyVA-CMAAh3-A.jpg
I hear he’s also practising a DHBH!
new stroke?
always had a genius for new genius strokes
who?
The One
aka apparel-less Emperor
that would be funny
I had tears in my eyes reading that Guardian article. Roger Federer is a shameful human being. Those quotes after his 2011 RG loss to Rafa are truly awful and it is such gracelessness which precludes me from seeing any redeeming qualities in him, on and off the court.
What a disgusting man.
it is this that inspired all the satire I used to write on TT, and the feeling intensified greatly because of the sycophanting
with djoker most of his not gracious behaviour is not white washed
nice one, augusta
nice one, too, roggie 😉
and now we come to the real GOAT debate:
who is the greatest of all thegrandstand ?
or of you prefer:
who is the greatest of all tenngrand ?
if you don’t like the all word in there, drop it, and we’ve got the GOT debate
in the Huns’ language GOT simply means, well, god
#JustAskin
It is something for others to say after all the careers are over, no?
But, for me the numbers say it all so it has to be @Augusta08 with the most posts, for sure, no?
#Humb1e
Thanks for the link to the Guardian article, hawkeye. It’s true that many don’t want to admit that Federer was crowned GOAT prematurely so they are sticking to it even though it rings hollow now.
It was one of the best tennis articles I’ve seen. Thought everyone should read it.
Glad you enjoyed!
https://twitter.com/DavisCup/status/510383809762963456
#NoEmptySeats
ITALIANS have traveled to Geneva to support their team! 😀
Those Itaians are well known for their red-wearing rent-a-crowds.
Eric Butorac replacing Federer as president of the ATP Players’ Council is the best thing. He is not even a singles player and puts the post where it belongs, nowhere. When Federer stood down, I was worried that the Djoker might replace him and I was dreading the puffed chest and the rest, from the president of the Histrionic Personality Disorder Association.
Rafa is well out of it.
Butorac is the man
https://tenngrand.com/social/player-pages/roger-federer/comment-page-2/#comment-117443
https://twitter.com/scambers73/status/510420432017948673
^^complete what full set of titles? Does he have a Monte Carlo title? Does he have a Rome Masters title?
Some more BS Federazzi propaganda……….
Olympic singles gold?
Wait until Federer got the Davis Cup title, I am sure the Fed fanatics especially those on Tennis Warehouse Forum would immediately elevate the status of Davis Cup, unlike how they are dismissing Nadal’s now. This Simon Cambers is not as uber as those on TW, who have hailed Federer’s doubles gold as equal to Nadal’s single’s gold even though they despised Nadal’s OGM before Fed won his doubles.
we will see if Nadal fans do the same thing
they claim Davis Cup is one of the biggest perks on his resume for being better than Fed in the GOAT discussion, so we will see how they treat Fed’s inevitable Davis Cup triumph
Ricky, I do not understand what you are saying. Are you saying Rafans will downgrade the importance of Davis Cup once Roger wins it because he has won it? I don’t know which Rafans you hang around but the ones I hang around, including those on Tenngrand, would not do that because it would also be downgrading Rafa’s DC triumphs! Silly.
As far as I know, Rafans have consisted argued for the importance and inclusion of DC in the GOAT debate. So, if Fed wins he will have one, how many does Rafa have? Please.
We Rafans know the moment Rafa snags a WTF title, Fedfans will downgrade it’s status and upgrade the importance of balletic acumen on court. That’s who they are, that’s what they are all about: shifting goal posts. I do not think you can honestly accuse Rafans of that.
……IMO, if Fed adds a DC trophy to his many accomplishments it will bring him closer to GOAT status, of which he currently is not. We will see if Fedfans argue the same.
closer to who?
^^You have to ask? *eyeroll*
Rafa of course! Who else?
Ricky Dimon@September 13, 2014 at 2:49 am
—so we will see how they [Rafa fans] treat Fed’s inevitable Davis Cup triumph—
I’ll treat it so that Rafa has been TRIUMPHANT 4(!) times.
Rafa has been a member of the winning Spain Davis Cup team in 2004, 2008, 2009, and 2011 – 4 times!
I already imagine headlines in the Rogerrazzi media: ¤¤ …the TRIUMPH…¤¤
http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/f/fanfare/graphics-fanfare-058627.gif
https://twitter.com/ATPWorldTour/status/510419722244861952
Ricky,
Touche!
How did I miss this fawning piece?
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/roger-federer-zeppelins-monfils-us-open/
^^I skimmed through it, too syrupy for my tastes. Besides, I find it hard to eulogise mediocrity, Fed IS the second best player of his generation.
Mr. Brian Phillips is clearly aiming to win the award for who can pen the most syrupy eulogy to TMF at the creative writing course he attends!
That piece is drowning in every metaphor and simile ever used to describe Federer – although likening his tennis to Zeppelins is a new one on me.
It reminds me of the over-written offerings on the Bleacher Report where contributors try to outdo each other but have not learnt that less can be more.
Yeah Federer is the 2nd best player i have read the guardian’s article very well written.. nobody has dared to bring the other side of pic till now so its refreshing and gopd to know that Rafa is the best player.. and hes has the best h2h vs top 10 vs big 4 n hv winning ratio of all time best GOAT
Ritb, when Fed’s lack of DC titles has been cited as a gap in his GOAThood his fans have always maintained that DC doesn’t count because it’s a team sport.
@nadline10, this is what I have always gleaned from Fedfans. Fedfans have ALWAYS downplayed Rafa’s accomplishments, airbrushed any holes in Fed’s CV, DC included, bigged up all Fed’s accomplishments AND added luster to ridiculous ones! Rafans, otoh, have consistently acknowledged Fed’s accomplishments but refused to be party to biggying up nonsense. We have consistently said DC is important and I cannot see any Rafan changing this because Fed has won it. Like I said, when you look at their respective bodies of work, Rafa outclasses Fed on most important categories and as the Guardian article says, he is second to Rafa. So, if Fed wins DC, kudos to him, he will have moved closer to Rafa, but still second.
change one, two or three of these things in recent history:
1/3 tournaments on hard courts, 2/3 on clay
rafa born the same year as roger
rafa absent from tournaments half as often as he has been
then the stats in about every possible dimension would be even stronger for rafa, including h2h, slam count, 1000s count, weeks at no 1, probably olympic singles, et j’en passé
fair points except the last one
Rafa missing tournaments has to be accepted as a given
Not forgetting Fedups also rubbished Olympic Gold in singles – claiming of course that it wasn’t anywhere near as important as the WTF. Naturally had Fed won in 2012 then he would be lauded for having two gold medals.
They have always resorted to puerile arguments to make their case: it’s not worth the effort of even trying to counter them.
They must be gnashing their teeth over the Guardian article which lethally debunked the myth about their hero without once resorting to number crunching.
^^Or name-calling.
“…… it’s not worth the effort of even trying to counter them.”
Thank goodness Rafa provides all the relevant counter arguments………on court!