The King of Clay’s throne is abdicated no more.
And nobody even came close from preventing his latest ascension.
Rafael Nadal completed a perfect run to this 10th French Open title and first since 2014 when he won his seventh straight-set match of the fortnight, erasing Stan Wawrinka 6-2, 6-3, 6-1 on Sunday afternoon. Nadal triumphed after only two hours and fives minutes of play.
This one–like the former world No. 1’s six matches before it throughout the fortnight–was never competitive.
Wawrinka held his first two service games but lost four games in a row starting at 2-2 to end the set in unceremonious fashion. Nadal stormed to a 3-0 lead in the second and easily consolidated the break, without even being pushed to deuce on serve at any point during the middle frame. From there it was all over for Wawrinka, who donated his serve once again to begin the third and was also broken on two more occasions thereafter.
“For sure I was nervous this morning about the match, about the final, about playing against him,” the third-ranked Swiss admitted. “But when I enter the court, I enjoy it and I appreciate [being] in the final of a Grand Slam here [at the] French Open. That’s always something special, and you need to see that also from the big picture.
“For sure this score wasn’t good, the match wasn’t good, but at the end of the day there’s a lot of positives to take from the last few weeks.”
Wawrinka had been in the midst of a 10-match winning streak before he ran into Nadal. He was coming off a title in Geneva, won his first five matches at Roland Garros all in straight sets, and toppled top-seeded Andy Murray in a five-set semifinal.
But Wawrinka was no match for Nadal, who more than doubled his unforced errors(12) with winners (27), faced just one break point, and never got broken.
“I know Wawrinka is a very dangerous opponent, so my mentality was there all the time thinking that I cannot give him the chance to be back in the match,” Nadal explained. “Because then he starts to hit so strong from the baseline and he’s able to produce amazing shots.
“The only thing that I know is I am playing well now. I am happy. I am enjoying every week and I want to continue and I’m gonna try to keep working hard to try to enjoy more beautiful weeks.”
The 31-year-old has enjoyed plenty of them at the French Open, but never has Nadal been more dominant than he was this time. He lost a grand total of 35 games throughout the event, the second fewest by any man at any major in the best-of-five-set Open Era (since 1968).
King of clay
Hi, all fellow rafafans and all fellow tennis fans! Thanks sharing your thoughts, sticking around and celebrating. What an achievement!! I could swear that even the trophy looked happy – as if reunited with an old friend, although it knew from past experiences what was coming 🙂 🙂 🙂 And maybe it hasn’t been bitten the last time…
So nice to see Uncle Toni taking part in the trophy ceremony. Hard to believe that he won’t be Rafa’s full time coach anymore. I was often critical of him and his methods. But he provided so much stability and emotional support. How great that he can retire while Rafa won another slam trophy. And I’m in awe what Carlos Moya has already achieved with Rafa. Team Rafa couldn’t have chosen a better coach. Rafa’s serve has really become a dangerous asset and the shortened rallyes might prolong Rafa’s active years. If Rafa stays healthy the sky is the limit. Or so it seems right now 😉
For those who moan that Rafa’s slam count is too clay heavy: hey, the guy almost won the AO, too, and was in another two hard court finals! Only Roger was better on hard court this year.
The RG title and how it was won should give Rafa a tremendous amount of confidence for the rest of the season. While I don’t see Rafa as a favorite it would be nice if a relaxed Rafa could do some damage again at Wimby. He loves the tournament after all.
He has lost the following number of non clay slam finals:
3 Wimbledon
3 AO
1 USO
i.e 7 non clay finals
so if we look at the total number of finals, he has reached 12 non clay finals and 10 clay finals. Except AO 14, he has lost the non clay finals to Federer or Djokovic.
littlefoot,
I appreciate your thoughts. It has been very special to be here with other Rafa fans on this historic occasion. What a day! I really liked that they had Uncle Toni participate and give Rafa that special trophy. I have been critical of him, but also understood that he was a big part of Rafa’s success. He played a role in Rafa’s career and deserves credit for what he has achieved.
When Rafa first held the trophy and raised it, then he kind of cradled it in his arms and kissed it. I thought that was so touching. A beautiful moment!
I think Carlos Moya has done a great job since he joined Rafa’s team. It’s like everything has come together now and it’s all working. Rafa is winning efficiently and playing aggressively and with confidence. With the way he is playing, he may be able to extend his career.
I think Rafa will gain even more confidence from this win and how he did it. I hope that his knees will hold at Wimbledon. I would love to see him do something there. But I just want to enjoy seeing him play and being healthy and happy.
I am okay with all his clay slam titles. I think he has enough non clay titles to show that he is an all court player. If he wins another USO it AO, it will be icing on the cake.
Rafahas earned his place among the greatest to ever play this sport!
35 games…incredible!! Vamos Rafa!
So dominant has Rafa appeared in the clay court swing that but for his having lost three in a row to Fed in the first quarter, I would have predicted Rafa to be the year end # 1!
So my prediction has to wait for the next face off between the two.
Amazing Rafa! Everyone of his opponents (except PCB who played only one set plus 2 games) got at least a bagel or a breadstick, and that included two top ten players – Thiem and Stan the two best clay court players this tournament, after Rafa. This shows us just how dominant Rafa is/was; he’s simply awesome! His performance here is comparable to his of 2008 FO. I thought I saw the best Rafa in the FO2008 but now I’m wondering is this Rafa better than the FO2008 version?
I’m just so happy to see Rafa winning his tenth FO title, we may never see anyone else winning ten titles at any slam again for a long long time.
I hope Rafa with this momentum will do better on grass this year, at least goes deep in the grass events and earns enough points to help him regain the no.1 ranking and becomes YE no.1.
If Rafa gets a good draw and his knees let him bend, I think he is a serious contender for the Championship. But I hope he will sweep the US Open series and also win WTF to gain a lot of points and be year end # 1.
And I hope he beats Fed when he meets him next. Rafa is a problem solver so I think he and his team are working on this. Apparently Fed was taking time away from Rafa. I think Rafa can beat Fed by attacking him alternately on both wings instead of hammering Fed’s backhand. As Fed is not as fast as he once was ( I hope!), this will disrupt his gameplan. In any case I think Rafa’s forehand has improved since they last met so the improved Fed backhand may not withstand the more lethal attack.
RT @rolandgarros: ? @stanwawrinka on playing Nadal in the #RG17 final: “He puts doubts in your head when you play against him.” https://t.co/tvBaVAIXvM
I add to My post AT 2:31 AM.
#GOAT
To creates a La Decima at RG is one thing…but to make a hatrick of La Decima in 2 other places…in a same year…it’s..just..WOW!!..WOW!!!!
#BEL15VE IN HIS10RY!!…VAMOS RAFA!!
I like what Rafa tweeted: CHAMP10N
Maybe we should call him La Decimator.
Unbelievable our Rafa! I felt on top of the world myself when I woke up this morning! It’s such a great feeling!
Thank you, Rafa! As i said when the clay season started: Rafa will destroy them all! And he truly did! Nobody even came close to beat him…
Interesting how some people here were constantly dragging about how Rafa wasn’t tested, how he would be undercooked whereas they were actually blind enough to see how superior Rafa’s current game is which is making his opponents look incapable and not motivated..
I am not siure about winning Wimby, too many hard hitting serving machines out there, but Rafa definitely has a chance to win USO!
Get some rest, La Decimator! And then go and get them all! ❤️
Btw, 10 is my favorite number!
Vamos Champ! We are so proud to be your fans!
nny, yes, we have criticized Uncle Toni in the past. But do you guys realize that he is now the most successful tennis coach in the history of the game, because Fed has employed different coaches and won some of his slams without a coach? UT sure deserved his little extra cup 🙂
It’ll take more than power to beat Rafa at his best on clay. You’ll need to rob him of time which Stan was unable to do ….http://www.138mph.com/rafa-the-clay-court-legend/
Who can rob Rafa of time on clay? He doesn’t feel rushed as he can play from way behind the baseline and still hit incredible shots from there. His movement too is unparalleled on clay; it’s not only the sliding into his shots in whichever direction, but the balance he could get even when on the run to hit his shots. Watched the slo mo of him sliding to his BH corner and then hitting his BH with power and precision when he was still sliding, incredible power plus balance.
This is, without a shadow of a doubt, the best EVER moment in Nadal’s career for me. After everything he’s been through over the past two years with his drop in form and injuries, I was honestly beginning to doubt this day would come. What a fanstasic day.
Wawrinka gets it (last sentence says it all):
“Physically or fitness-wise, I mean, I felt great. I’d recovered from Andy’s match – but it’s a mental thing. Everything is connected. If I hesitate in my mind, my legs will follow suit. That’s what happened today because when you play against Rafa, if you hesitate, it’s no good.”
“Mentally, it was tough. If you hesitate for half a second, it’s too late. You will hesitate, you’ll be late and you will backpedal. If you’re not completely relaxed with the way you’re gonna play, you have no chance. That’s what happened today.
“When you play against him, he’s an amazing fighter. There is always one ball coming back. There is always spin on the ball. There is always a different bounce. And it’s even tougher on clay. He creates a doubt that you cannot have if you want to beat him.”
“When I stepped on the court, when I looked at the crowd, when I got my bearings, I was no longer nervous. I was eager to play the match.”
“Well, I was trying to find a solution. I was trying to play better. I was trying to play the game I wanted to play. I was trying to do something different.”
“But I wasn’t completely 100 per cent with my mind and what I wanted to do. That’s what happens when you play against Rafa.”
Read more at http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/articles/2017-06-11/wawrinka_believes_he_faced_the_bestever_rafa.html#R5JxFcivMWoobTWm.99
Read more at http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/articles/2017-06-11/wawrinka_believes_he_faced_the_bestever_rafa.html#zSi3zHCBAKyr6HfQ.99
#RafaIsTheBest
#Again
#GOAT
The 6-2, 6-3, 6-1 scoreline yesterday was exactly the tsame as the last time they met at RG when Rafa beat Wawrinka in 2013 QF.
#NothingNew
Here are just a few of Rafa’s Stand Alone records
Most titles won at a single Grand Slam tournament – Roland Garros (10) Stands alone
Youngest men’s player to achieve a Career Grand Slam (Aged 24) Stands alone
Won the Olympic Singles Gold medal, Career Grand Slam, and Olympic Doubles Gold medal Stands alone
Won Grand slams on clay, grass, and hard court in a single calendar year Stands alone
There are many others in the list but have cherry picked the less esoteric to illustrate what a complete all round player he is.
Congrats Rafa on La Decima and No 15. Stupendous and incredible. It makes it even more sweeter that it was done so clinically and ruthlessly at 31 years of age without dropping a set. I for sure never imagined he would win a GS without dropping a set on the way. Maybe that is 1 more record- winning 3 slams without dropping a set.
To All Rafans : Congrats to us. We have been through a lot in the past 3 years and the last 3 months have given us lot of joy. After every cloud is a silver lining is proven once again.
My few thoughts:
1) I believe destiny has a large role to play here. Some things are just destined to happen in a particular way. It was destined that No 10 at 3 venues had to happen in the same year. If no 8 and no 9 at MC, Basrcelona, RG happened at different years, why did No 10 happen all in the same year. It was just destined that way. I did not post at all (maybe 1 post) all through the 2 weeks but I was silently confident that Rafa would win RG as he was destined to and nothing would come in his way.
Carlos Moya has been a wonderful addition and yes Rafa puts in all the hard work but he is the engine and the wind beneath Rafas wings. He has helped him retool the serve, Rafa is playing far more aggressive, going on the offense a lot more, dictating lot more than defending, hitting both DTL FH & BH shots at will. This is all the work that Moya has done on Rafa that is yielding results. He deserves enough credit and more.
Happy to see Toni being called on stage and celebrated. I was surprised it happened in a slam. For all the talk of RG disliking Rafa, they proved it wrong with this gesture by calling his coach who would step down and hand him the trophy/replica etc. I would say they went against tradition here . Is it the first time this has happened ?
I read that Eiffel tower yesterday was lit in colors of Spanish flag. Now is that not cool? Who said the French don’t like Rafa. If they disliked Rafa, why have their biggest landmark show respect to him?
Federer was spot on in predicting right before everyone in Miami that Rafa will tear the clay season apart. That’s why I value what Federer says a lot, he is spot on with his analysis. His coach Severein post Mimai had also said that post RG , everyone may be talking about Rafa ending year as No 1 and he was right 🙂
Rafa is close to 7000 points in the race, this maybe the highest he has amassed till RG ever right? I knew he was around 6500 many times but close to 7K ? Lucky may know all the numbers I ma sure 🙂
I believe Rafa and Fed will end the year as 1 and 2 with Murray very close as 3. 2 & 3 may change between Murray & Fed based on Wimbledon . There is no way Murray is defending all those points 2nd half of the season.
I am expecting Rafa to do serious damage in Wimby too this time. He just needs to be healthy that’s it. I wont be surprised at a title run too but again would not be surprised if he went out early too. I hope for a Rafa Fed final or Rafa Murray final at Wimby with Rafa winning ofcourse.
I have no problem if Rafa wins more at RG but honestly 10 is lot. That record at a slam may never get broken unless Rafas son or daughter breaks it (just joking). I think we should all now relax in future RG and not stress ourselves. He has won enough at RG. I personally want him to win 2 non clay slams now (preferably at Wimby and AO).
It was sweet of Federer to call out Rafa on twitter and hail his accomplishment. Good sporting spirit. Wonder why Novak and Andy haven’t yet (maybe they smsed him privately).
Federer did the right thing by not playing the clay season. He knew he would win nothing and I think the decision was made once he saw Rafa take Novak apart at Madrid. He did not want to have a dent to his confidence after those 3 wins against Rafa by suffering a beatdown on clay. Its all mental finally 🙂
I am not going to pencil Fed as favourite for Wimby. He is one of the favs but clear fav, come on.
Sanju,
This is one of your best posts of all time! Maybe it was destined to be after all!
It’s a wonderful thing to be able to celebrate this historic win with other Rafa fans here! It’s been a long time coming! We have reason to smile and so does Rafa!
I think Carlos Moya has done a great job DVD we are seeing the results. Rafa is comfortable with him and trusts him. It seems to be a perfect match!
I am not hoping for Fed to win Wimby! If he does it , well good for him. But I am not about to give him the trophy now. He has to earn it. I hope that Rafa can do well at Wimby. We will see how his knees hold up in the first week.
I think Rafa has done more than enough at RG. I don’t think anyone will come close to what he has done there. I would love to see him win maybe another USO or AO. If he wins any more titles at RG, that would be icing on the cake. But Rafa has earned his place as an all-time great in this sport!
Sanju says AT 3:59 PM: “…calling his coach who would step down and hand him the trophy/replica etc. I would say they went against tradition here. Is it the first time this has happened ?”
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It has never happened. Winners are normally given a small trophy to keep.
The ‘Eiffel tower’ thing was fake news.
🙂
Sanju, nice post.
I (We) love Rafa’s game; I love and appreciate the intricacies that’s in Rafa’s game; and Ive to thank both Stan and Fed, for saying what they said about Rafa, about how difficult it is playing against him, and I like what Fed said about Rafa, that Rafa is a special and unique player, and people just don’t know how difficult it is to play against him.
Stan mentioned that Rafa gave him different looks each time when the ball came back at him, and how difficult it was countering Rafa’s shots.
I appreciate their honest assessment of Rafa’s game and how tough it is to play against Rafa not to mention beating him, esp on clay.
Many people see attacking players hitting winners all over the place and think that they are great, but they fail to see just how difficult it is to play a tactical game like Rafa’s, to counter all kinds of players, and to do it with success time and again.
I’m just so impressed with Rafa, the game that he’s playing now and how as he grows older, he’s able to improvise, to adapt and to add in new dimensions into his game.
He’s playing a brand of both offensive and defensive tennis, but this time, unlike in the past, or even in his heydays, he’s now playing more offensive than defensive tennis, and yet there’s no compromising where his defensive skills are concern, when and where he needs them. Rafa is playing an effective and efficient brand of tennis on clay, I mean, he only spent 12+ hours on the clay court to win seven BO5 matches to get his 10th FO title. Only two matches went over two hours, i.e. the SF and F, and both were just a few minutes past the two hour mark! He made his opponents in the SF and F looked helpless out there, and they’re the no.2 and no.3 best players on clay this season! Both are hard hitters playing on their best surface, yet they’re being overpowered, out maneuvered, simply being outplayed. Such is the greatness of Rafa on clay!
I’m with Sanju, I believe that Rafa has the ability to win Wimbledon and hopes he really wins it; of course that may or may not happen. I also hope for him to win the AO, the USO, plus Wimbledon to prove once again that he is still capable of winning majors on other non clay surfaces.
PS. Rafa’s 2013 ranked no.1 in terms of race points won right up to winning the FO (7000 points) but Rafa lost in R1 at Wimbledon back then.
A point that stood out,on another thread I saw few Rafa fans say they hope Fed won at Wimby. Why? I mean everyone is entitled to hope for anything, but if you a fan of 1 player, why want his rival to win Wimby. I want Rafa to win it and not Fed and the reason is not because I don’t like Fed, I want the distance between slam count to be as close as possible.
Had Rafa won AO, the slam count would be 16 vs 17 instead of 18 vs 15. What a huge difference it makes 🙂
Sanju says AT 4:05 PM: “…if you a fan of 1 player, why want his rival to win Wimby.”
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I haven’t read these comments, but probably they were written by bandwagon fans.
I can never understand why some Rafa fans big up his opponents. But maybe they want to win some cheap popularity. I hope Rafa overtakes Fed but I really don’t mind if he doesn’t. I just want to watch Rafa playing so well. If he wins slams, that’s a bonus. But watching him hit his amazing shots and enjoying himself out there, that is what makes me happy. I have posted in this forum supporting Rafa through the lean period instead of bashing him because he couldn’t win. Along with nadline and augusta, I should get an award for being the most loyal fan here!
#KudosToMe
Rafa breaks Sampras’ 14.
Also joins Sampras who had been the only Open Era player with slam titles won in their teens, 20s and 30s!
Vamos Rafa!
#GOAT
Hawks-
I think you know my opinion on Goat talk- I’ve believed for a few years now that arguments can be made for either Fed or Rafa being the “GOAT”. For me personally, Rafa had already earned the GOAT title when he had 9 RG titles, depending on how you measure it, and him going from 9 to 10 RG titles just further shows what we already knew- that he is by far the most dominant force on a given surface ever. I am curious to know why you didn’t think Rafa was the GOAT two weeks ago, but now he is. And I think you know me well enough on here now to know that I’m not asking you in a confrontational way. 🙂 I don’t think you are wrong at all because I believe there is no right or wrong answer (as of now). I truly am just curious to know why YOU thought he wasn’t the greatest ever before RG, but now believe he is.
#IComeInPeace
#GoatTalk
WARNING/DISCLAIMER!!!! Everyone but Kevin who asked, please do us both a big favour and skip my post here (many of you already do so kudos for that!
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Hey Kev!
First things first. I’m only right about saying that it is my OPINION that Rafa is GOAT. It is a FACT that my opinion is that Rafa is GOAT. It’s also a FACT that many (most?)believe that Federer is GOAT.
Ok so why the change? Well, I’d have to explain my GOAT opinion history FWIW and it is just that. OPINION.
Wimbledon 2000: Sampras became GOAT for breaking slam totals and dominating his competition head-to-head with one small exception – a near even record of 4-6 vs Krajicek.
Wimbledon 2012: Fed became GOAT for going two slams up on Sampras which I thought slightly more than compensated for Fed’s soft competition before 2008 and his poor h2h vs Rafa and close h2h vs Murray and Nole. So he didn’t dominate the competition like Sampras did IMO.
US Open 2013: Rafa gets to 13 slams, along with leading Masters 1000 titles, winning h2h against every player except a virtually equal 5-6 vs Davydenko, including dominating h2h vs federer, Olympic Gold medalist, and so many DC wins. But what capped it off for me was an astounding super human effort to have arguably his best year after a seven month injury lay off.
Australian Open: Federer (as I correctly predicted) wins his 18th slam at 35 years of age after a six month injury layoff. I knew Fed could play himself into form much quicker than Rafa and with Nole and Muzz struggling and a custom-made fastest AO court ever was a recipe for his 18th. I’d said I’d consider him GOAT if my prediction was correct so credit where credit is due – he was GOAT in my eyes again.
French Open 2017 – As I said, it takes Rafa longer to reach peak form after a layoff and that is what he did losing just one match on clay and winning La Decima playing what I thought was at his best level on clay as good as anything prior.
But there is little between Rafa and Federer – it is that close in my eyes.
And is just a game I like to play. Some don’t and I respect that. I don’t respect when others say there is no such thing as GOAT, when they are basically saying there is no such thing as opinion.
People need to stop getting so offended by thinking that everyone with an opinion on GOAT is stating it as absolute fact.
#RafaGOAT
Sufficient answer for me, Hawks. 🙂
I read your post hawks! I already knew what you were gong to say. I think the GOAT debate is interesting and a player isn’t GOAT simply because he piles up slams. I leave that to the titlists who can only judge a player’s performance by how many titles he has won. It has to do with that sudden feeling you get when somebody crosses the border of human limits to rival the Gods. Fed’s AO and Rafa’s RG struck awe in anyone who watched it happening. GOAT is attached to endeavors, not to persons or titles. The persons are not always at their best. Sometimes one, sometimes the other, fills us with amazement. When a young lad from Mallorca beat the reigning deity at Miami in 2004, that was a GOAT moment. “Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
When a new planet swims into his ken;…”
So well put Mary!
Interesting criterion for calling someone GOAT, Mary. What you say reminds me a bit of the “Federer as religious experience” article from about 10 years ago. Not that I deny the feeling of awe (for both players: that Rafa running FH the other day against Stan was one of the most jaw-dropping shots I’ve ever seen), but even if there is no definitive answer in this debate, basing it on a feeling of awe is I think a bit too subjective.
Boringly, that leaves number of big titles (GS, WTF, Masters), and by that criterion Federer gets the nod, narrowly, but clearly for me.
However, I don’t think this question can be sensibly addressed without talking about the surface factor. It’s not just that clay is by far Nadal’s best surface and Federer’s worst, it’s also that so little tennis is played on Roger’s best surface (indoor hard) and comparatively little on his second (grass). Imagine how many slams Roger would have if there were a 5th slam played indoors, or how many Masters he’d have if there were 3 on grass and 3 indoors like is the case for clay at present.
The most neutral surface for comparison, of course, is outdoor hard court. And there, I don’t really think there is much comparison. Roger leads in number of outdoor hard court slams, 10-3, and Masters, 18-7. Rafa has the H2H edge (8-5, 3-1 in slams), but that’s not nearly as important as number of big titles in my book.
Well that POV can work both ways.
Imagine that instead of two of four slams being played on hard court, that they were played on clay.
Imagine that instead of world tour finals being played on indoor hard every year, they were rotated or always played on clay.
Imagine that one fan opinion might consider h2h against his peers especially in slams significantly more important than another fan. Nadal simply DOMINATES the field h2h in slams. Even removing clay slams where Rafa is 6-1 vs Nole, Rafa is still 3-3 vs Nole on grass and hc slams. Similarly Rafa is 5-0 vs Fed at RG, and 4-3 vs Fed on grass and hc slams.
There is also olympic gold and Davis Cup which rafans like to consider but fedfans will dismiss because DC is team sport and fed wone doubles olympic gold which has its own contradiction because one might argue that doubles is a team sport.
Also, rafans like to point out that you can’t go by number of titles without considering the level of the competition over that period of time (aka Weak Era).
I quote your opening premise that “basing it on a feeling of awe is I think a bit too subjective.”
Greatest Of All Time IS just that. Very subjective. It is, as Mary says, just a feeling. And that goes for everyone.
So many fedfans want everybody to think it is not.
Many (most?) feel that Federer is GOAT, but I, along with Andre Agassi, Andy Murray, Rod Laver and Pete Sampras, don’t think it’s as clear cut as fedfans.
I close by saying, it gets tired and repetitive which is why I rarely get into debating it anymore other than just to state my own opinion.
#ToEachTheirOwn
#RafaGOAT
Perhaps the least controversial thing that can be said on this topic, which I am happy to leave it at, is that Nadal is GOAT on clay and Fed is GOAT off clay.
Oddly, however, I rarely hear it put that way.
I don’t necessarily agree with that one either.
For me at this point in time I don’t qualify Rafa as just being best on clay. He is just best overall in my opinion.
I also believe that Sampras is the off clay GOAT.
But surely you don’t think Rafa is best off clay? Rafa being the best, period, is consistent with what I said, even if it’s too weak for you.
I said Sampras was already.
No that’s not consistent at all.
But it’s good enough for me because it’s your opinion. Not mine.
Your opinion that he’s not the best overall is what I meant.
Sorry, completely missed your second line about Sampras.
No worries Joe. I do it all the time.
Regardless, the difference for me anyways is splitting hairs between the greats.
Joe, if there is one indoor HC slam, then there’ll be one less outdoor HC slam to be fair. I’m not sure Fed would dominate the indoor HC slam any better than he dominated USO in his peak, for there is a certain Novak Djokovic who’s also dominant on indoor HCs – 5 WTF and 4 Paris Masters on indoor HCs.
The more grass Masters and indoor HC masters debate – well, I’m also not sure Fed would dominate the grass Masters the way Rafa dominated the clay ones, for both Rafa and Djoko when in their respective peaks on grass, could beat Fed on grass!
The indoor HC Masters, well there were two of them (Madrid and Paris) up to 2008, but Fed didn’t dominate on them; in fact Djoko had won more indoor HC masters than Fed – 4 Paris vs Fed’s 1 Paris and 1 Madrid indoors.
So the point is moot, about grass Masters and indoor HC slam and masters – for it won’t affect Rafa that much anyway, but it may benefit Djoko more than it benefit Fed.