Stan Wawrinka’s 2014 World Tour Finals campaign was nothing short of memorable, both on and off the court. One year later, his tournament should get off to a similarly entertaining start. On the other side of the net come Monday night will be Rafael Nadal.
Stan Wawrinka and Rafael Nadal will be squaring off for the 17th time in their careers and for the third time this fall when they kick off their weeks at the World Tour Finals with a round-robin showdown on Monday night.
They split their two most recent meetings, with Nadal dominating 6-2, 6-1 in the Shanghai quarterfinals before Wawrinka exacted revenge with a 7-6(8), 7-6(7) victory at the same stage of the Paris Masters. Their only previous encounter at the year-end championship came in 2013 and it also went to a pair of tiebreakers before Nadal survived 7-6(5), 7-6(6). Overall, the Spaniard owns a 13-3 lead in the head-to-head series–including 8-2 on hard courts and 2-1 indoors.
This season will go down as a disappointment for Nadal regardless of what transpires at the O2 because he failed to win a Grand Slam title or even a Masters 1000 tournament. That being said, the world No. 5 is in relatively resurgent form at the moment. In addition to his Paris performance, Nadal’s fall swing includes a semifinal showing in Shanghai and runner-up finishes in Beijing (to Novak Djokovic) and Basel (to Roger Federer).
Wawrinka’s year, of course, is highlighted by his second-ever major title at the French Open. The fourth-ranked Swiss also reached semifinals at the Australian Open and U.S. Open to go along with a trip to the Wimbledon quarters. He has plenty of momentum heading into London with a 17-4 record dating back to the start of the season’s final Grand Slam.
Neither man has ever triumphed at the World Tour Finals. Nadal, who missed the event in 2014 due to injury, is 13-11 lifetime with runner-up efforts in 2010 and 2013. Wawrinks is 4-4 in two appearances and reached the semis in both 2013 and 2014. He had four match points last year against Federer only to fall 4-6, 7-5, 7-6(6) in a semifinal thriller that featured as much drama in the post-match locker room as between the lines.
A relatively slow hard court that is reportedly identical to the Paris surface should be conducive to each player’s game and will likely result in another high-quality, competitive contest. Nadal will be well-rested this time around and may be particularly motivated for his first London appearance since 2013.
Pick: Nadal in 3
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hoping there will be fireworks and a fabulous display from Rafa. See you there . Rafa!
Serve well and don’t get broken, the rest will follow. You own the best h2h over all of them, so show them who you are.
Vamos Rafa!
Only one was highly competitive. Neither was high quality.
Flip a coin. Anxious or colm.
I’m taking the former. Stan in two.
Nadal’s pattern of winning matches recently is why I voted for him in 3 sets. Hoping for great tennis from both!
I expect Rafa to be nervous…it’s his first match and he may experience some ups and downs during the match…but I also hope calm Rafa will prevail, enough to win in the end…Rafa in three is my prediction…
Vamos Rafa!
I already voted for Rafa in 3 over Stan. I think this time he’s going to do what he didn’t do in Paris.
Could be a great match. I like Wka in 3.
Rafa spent a lot of time practicing his ROS today… esp on the deuce court….
He stoof closer to the baseline to practice ROS on the deuce court…not surprising… often likes to take time on return on the ad court
i admit to feeling nervous. We are about to see if Rafa can put into practice all the revisions to his game plan and style of play that he and his team have been working on for several months. There’s a lot riding on this match. And we know WaWa’s propensity for upping his level on the big stage. I’m keeping my prediction to myself.
But it will be three highly competitive sets with two TBs.
Not nervous Rafa should be able to beat Stan in 2; a nervous one will beat Stan in 3.
Keep your mind focused, be confident and show your fighting spirit, Rafa!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT8F6DgW4AAMdeO.png;medium
(Correction to @2:21 pm)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT8F6DgW4AAMdeO.png:medium
Until and unless Stan appears completely off rhythm, this will be a tough match for both Rafa being nervous or not.
The court conditions (evidenced so far), suits game style of both the guys.
It’s 50:50 for me with no clear favorite.
Ricky, check your email…
Vamos rafa! Cannot wait to see you!!
I guess the match didn’t start yet. I raced home from a doctor’s appointment to get here in time.
Yes, I made it!
Eight points played and the server hasn’t won a single point.
WTA called. They want their tennis back.
Come on Rafa!
Make that nine points lol.
What a serving clinic from both these guys.
Ferrer must be contagious.
These two were just simply not meant to play indoors.
Indoors is for ping pong.
Vamos Rafa!
It was a shaky start from both guys, but they have settled down now. Rafa is playing aggressive right now.
Rafa is holding more easily now. Getting good court position so he can dictate the points.
That’s the way to do it! Rafa gets the break after Stan plays a very poor game. Now Rafa will be serving for the set!
Holy crap tennis.
Both hitting short.
Stan gifts a BH error on Rafa’s slow loopy second serve.
Another UE from Stan for 40-15.
Yes! Rafa wins the first set 6-3! Tennis channel commies are saying that Stan checked out in that game.
Nice ace! First set Rafa!
Jim Courier was just baffled by Stan not really going for his shots as Rafa was serving for the match. I don’t know what’s up with Stan, but he seems to have left the building at least for the moment.
More excuses that Stan is not trying! 🙁
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. 1st set Rafa.
Vamos!
Stan’s a .500 player career indoors. It’s Rafa’s worst condition also.
Jim Courier is still going on saying that Rafa got an early Christmas gift from Stan. He’s saying that Stan isn’t in this match.
Now that point for 15-30 from Rafa was masterclass.
Stan has left the building.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9jKZJUAAAdnMM.png
🙂
Shankly Wawrinka.
What a return frm Rafa for deuce.
BP Rafa.
So inconsistent from both ATM.
Nole and Fed are laughing for five minutes each.
BP. Rafa’s turn to choke.
LOL deuce. #NID
Haha. Stan is bad indoors. BP Rafa.
Ace from Stan back to deuce.
Rafa looping it back draws another BH error for BP
This is just bad.
Horrible return from Rafa on a softy loopy second serve from Stan to give him the hold for 1-0.
Oh my! What a lob from Rafa to win that point!
That was a killer shot…The killing shot of the match?
Rafa missed a huge opportunity to break Stan early in this match. Now he’s had to come back in his service game. But it’s nice to see him moving well and coming up with some great shots.
WaWa has gone into a sulk 🙂
I was just going to say he always looks annoyed.
Petulant is the word that usually comes to mind when watching him 😉
Rafa breaks!
I reckon WaWa should get a warning for not trying!
As for complaining that Rafa is taking too long to serve – that takes the cake
A double break. Couldn’t ask for more!
Vamos!
Koenig and Goodall were verbally slating Stan for his behaviour/performance I’m happy to say. Rafa did well to maintain concentration in the circumstances.
I am impressed by the quality of return from Nadal today.
C’mon Rafa, close it out nice & easy
Stan the Mope.
Rafa now leads the group.
Vamos!
Yep! Standings after RR1:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9ybiTWUAAUX6p.png
Vamos Rafa.
Thats three indoor duds in a row between these two.
Memo to self: never pay to see these two play one another indoors.
I’ve never made the effort to go to the WTF – it’s too much of a lottery
Yep
All four sessions have been real duds. And they only have one singles match.
Not worth paying for. If they were comp that’s one thing.
Tennis should be played outside.
I was offered complimentary tickets for this year but when it seemed there was a risk Rafa might not play I decided the cost and hassle of getting to London was too great just before Christmas. Now I’m quite glad I didn’t accept. I’d just as rather not been in a 200,000 seat venue this week 🙁
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These commies have to accept that when Stan beat Rafa there were extenuating circumstances. In Australia, Rafa was injured, This year he beat a Rafa suffering from lack of confidence.
The match stats, Part 1:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9tUJkUYAAqcoF.png
🙂 🙂
The match stats, Part 2:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9tW62UcAIsVIu.png
Courier and Annacone were extremely critical of Stan’s effort in this match. He just didn’t show up. But I will still take this win for Rafa! It has to be a good feeling to get that first win. A win is a win!
I think the commies thought that Stan was tanking at some points in the match. The crowd didn’t get it’s money’s worth, that’s for sure!
But Rafa got the win! That’s what counts!
Oh goodness! Stan had 35 UE’s in a straight set match! Yikes!
That translates into an error every 2.4 minutes ?
Vaamoos Rafa!
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/happy/cheering-clapping-smiley-emoticon.gif
How did the match play out?
Rafa smoked Stan, 63 62.
I mean like how did they play? Was it lots of errors from Stan or did Rafa just dictate with forehand? I already know Rafa the boss prevailed lol.
Bring on Murray!
Vamos Rafa!
Benny,
I will give you my thoughts on the match. Stan was definitely not at his best, but that takes nothing away from Rafa. The first set was close until Rafa got the break and served out the set. Stan played a terrible game at 4-3 to give Rafa the chance to serve it out. His serve wasn’t working and he was spraying errors everywhere.
Rafa was able to take advantage of Stan’s mistakes. He also played very aggressive tennis. Rafa was determined to stand on or inside the baseline and control the points. The tennis channel commies said that Stan is not a great defender and Rafa kept putting him in a position where he had to defend.
Rafa outplayed him for sure, but this was not Stan at his best.
Benny,
Did you see the match stats that augusta posted on the previous page? Stan had 35 UE’s in a two set match! That lets you know how he played!
Here we go again. NNY, the eternal apologist for Rafa’s victims. NNY, one day, maybe, you will see some talent in Rafa. We can only hope.
Benny G, Rafa played great from well inside the court. He played attacking tennis and Stan was like a rabbit caught in headlights. The only thing Rafa didn’t hit so well was his 1st serve. He really needs to work on that. His ROS improved as the match went on but he missed some easy returns.
The match between Rafa & Andy is scheduled to start at 2:00 pm (local time):
OOP for Wednesday
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2015/605/op.pdf
The round matches may not be too exciting so far – Tues. & Wed. matches can’t be worse can they?
Regrets about my picks:
1) 3 sets seems 1 set too many for all the matches in Group Nastase.
2) Wawrinka defeating Murray unlikely!.
3) Murray, not Wawrinka, makes it 2-1
—————-
Nadal makes through round matches 3-0. He’s back for 2016 ;P
Wawrinka will be happy on vacation after 0-3.
(The link I provided @10:32 pm, now leads to Tuesday’s schedule in PDF format).
OOP for Wednesday in another format:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/barclays-atp-world-tour-finals/605/daily-schedule
Rafa analyzes his match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2SR7-OYmK0
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT96biJUYAAN9BE.png
Rafa: “You don’t get tired of hitting winner shots. You get tired of missing shots.”
🙂
Rafa must be exhausted this year!
yup, i knew the court positioning stats would be much more positive. It was obvious to me. Rafa’s ROS kept so much pressure on stan. He has started to get more comfortable returning serve from closer to the baseline. He must keep doing it more and more so that it can hold up pressure moments…allows him to stay close to the baseline which is so damn important for his game.
AWESOME EXPERIENCE! IT WAS A MASSIVE MASSIVE TREAT TO WATCH RAFA DESTROY STAN !!
really impressed with rafa’s ROS and his ability to play inside the court. He had decided to stay close to the baseline no matter what! Even when he was not able to pack a full punch on his forehand DTL, he was able to spread the court and being the aggressor, he was able to take initiative.
Watching live if quite fun. Rafa hit some vicious slices as well and he was driving his backhand pretty flat on many occasions. He had a nice mix. Towards the end he also started moving quite ‘aggressively’ to his backhand.
Rafa will finish his group 3-0…
He had to wait for me to watch him play in order to play one of his best matches of the year 😉 ;P
vr, get tickets for all Rafa’s matches, pleeeeeaaaaaassssssseeeeeeeeeeeee!!
The fan boy on me may have gotten tooo excited watching rafa live, lol…but it was definitely a very positive performance ! bravoooo
vamosrafa,
You seem to be on quite a high after seeing Rafa in person! I think it’s great that you had this chance. 🙂
yesssss! My seat right next to the entrance area for players… awesome to see rafa from that close 🙂
Pics?
I think vr maybe credited with giving Rafa lots of positive vibes!!!
Eleanor Crooks @EleanorcrooksPA 3h3 hours ago
Stan Wawrinka was not impressed with himself: “It’s a really bad match. Bad behaviour in the second set.”
Chris Fowler @cbfowler 5h5 hours ago
Strong work @RafaelNadal but Stan’s performance a downer. Tight? Tired? Cranky? Indifferent? Who knows? @ATPWorldTour needs guys to step up
Steve Tignor @SteveTignor 5h5 hours ago
“A very curious parachute out of a competitive environment for Stan”: Appropriate summation from Jim Courier. Nadal wins 63 62
Tiggy says:
Rafael Nadal leaped in the air as if he had just won Wimbledon. Stan Wawrinka stalked off court as if he had just been double-bageled by the 1,000th-ranked player in the world. Had this really been, for many of us, the most enticing match-up of the first two days at the ATP World Tour Finals? In the end, the 6-3, 6-2 victory that meant so much to Rafa had been, by all appearances, handed over on a silver platter by Wawrinka.
Something about the O2 Arena brings out Stan’s sulky side. Two years ago he complained that Toni Nadal was coaching his nephew from the stands. Last year he was called a “crybaby” by Roger Federer’s wife, Mirka. This year, seemingly angered by Nadal’s pace of play and his own erratic form, Wawrinka, in the understated but wholly appropriate words of Tennis Channel commentator Jim Courier, engaged in, “A very curious parachute out of a competitive environment.” By the start of the second set, Wawrinka had stopped moving his feet; by the middle of it, he had stopped pausing between points or putting balls in the court.
“Something went wrong,” Stan said afterward, “and then everything went wrong today.”
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/11/pros-end/56830/#.VkqRt4RqrZZ
November 17, 2015 at 2:54 am,
—Last year he was called a “crybaby” by Roger Federer’s wife, Mirka.—
===
.
Oh, Mr. Tiggy continues to make attempts to justify behavior of Fed & his team – no matter what!
Mrs. Fed couldn’t keep her mouth shut during the Fed-Wawrinka match at the WTF and called Wawrinka ‘crybaby’ after he complained about that:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9kowCICQAAT1jw.png:medium
(“Pleure bébé” = “crybaby” in French )
Fed should have been fined for that (Rulebook, page 177 & 178).
In the off chance that Stan hasn’t time to check here, maybe you should contact Benito and he can contact Stan’s people to warn him of what Tignor is doing. You have his contact info, yes?
November 17, 2015 at 2:10 pm,
.
Tiggy’s contact info is available on the Internet.
Issues between Fed’s team and Waw have nothing to do with “maybe you should contact Benito.”
You seem very preoccupied with that particular event and seem genuinely concerned for how Stan is being portrayed but not much we can do about it.
It was just a suggestion. Just trying to help.
November 17, 2015 at 2:55 pm
—You seem very preoccupied with that particular event…—
===
.
What??? YOU quoted Mr. Tiggy! You should try to help yourself! 😆
BTW, I have no idea who are these mysterious “we”.
I quoted Tignor on his opinion that Wawrinka has this chronic tendency to sulk, not about that one particular event.
However you keep bringing up that one particular episode repeatedly. There is nothing new with that and to gain some closure, I thought perhaps you might want to contact the people involved directly.
@ 3:09 pm,
I commented on the “episode” what Tiggy & YOU brought up!
Speaking of “bringing up…repeatedly” – that’s what YOU were doing this spring. Evidences are available in The Grandstand archives.
He brought up several examples.
I’ve mover on long ago on or before site rules were defined.
You choose to focus on one repeatedly.
I am just trying to help you find some closure on this seemingly traumatic episode.
From Rafa’s reaction, we can deduce that Stan’s bad play was because of Rafa not letting Stan play his game. Of course Rafa may also be like Djoko taking credit for opponent’s poor game.
Video by ATP.
Rafa’s post-match interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBmwJy2qA80
Rafa’s post-match press conference (English & Spanish):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnLP_U38wvQ
augusta,
do you know anything about Rafa’s racquet? It may only be me imagining stuff but it seemed to me that Rafa’s racquet last night was slightly bigger than his regular one? Could it be that he has switched to a new racquet?
natashao (at 1:32 pm),
Rafa is playing with his old racquet:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUBItZSWIAA_4Ay.png
Stan: “Something went wrong,” Stan said afterward, “and then everything went wrong today.”
***************
No Stan, nothing went wrong, you just played the real Rafa who owns you when playing at 100%.
Vamos Rafa!
Glad to see an ardent Rafa fan being brought down to Fed fan’s standard.
Rafa only loses when he is not at his 100% ( Just like Fed, no)
Frankly abhirf, some here have taken it to a new level turning it into a caricature-like art form.
(Not necessarily good art though.)
I guess we are to assume that when Rafa lost in two TB’s in Paris to Stan, that he wasn’t at his best.
I can understand why abhirf would feel the way he does. Yes, it appears that some think Rafa only loses when he is not at 100%! Even though Rafa has made a career out of winning when he is not at his best! 🙂
LIVE STREAMING from Practice court 1,
Tuesday 17th November Schedule* (all local times):
11:30 Nishikori & Sparring
12:30 Ferrer & Coach
13:30 Nadal & Gasquet
*This schedule is subject to change without notice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxZN_Cb8Z_c
Stan suffers from a sense of entitlement to beat Rafa because he is believing the propaganda so when he comes up against the real Rafa he can’t take it then he starts to sulk.
Like mirka says.
Exactly, like a baby.
LOL (literally)
I watched the replay of the match last night when I got back home…I think some comments here are just not fair to Rafa…it was not Stan who played lousy tennis, it was Rafa not letting him play his A game…Rafa was very good last night…I wouldn’t even go that far and say that he was 100% because he obviously wasn’t…if he was 100% he would have destroyed Wawa and would have used those 15 break points in a better way…this way Rafa gifted Wawa with those 5 games and Wawa should if anything be grateful for it….
Rafa played aggressively…he was up to the task…he made some amazing points that will most likely be replayed over and over again as the shots of the year…Rafa’s body language showed some serious change in his mindset…I am enjoying Rafa’s progress…and I think his anxiety is being dealt with as there are clear steps forward in that regard…Rafa simply trusts his game more thus feeling more determined and more confident…Rafa is on the right track…
I wish Rafa beats Andy and Ferrer to secure the first place in the group…
and these commies complaining about the bad match…the Serbian commentator announced a “very close match” a “thriller”, a “long lasting grueling match””…etc…poor souls…they were all disappointed by Rafa’s dominance…I hope they get more and more of these disappointments…
Vamos Rafa!
Thank you, nats. You’ve said it all. It’s just as well tennis is not like other contests that award points by a panel of judges, if that were the case, Rafa would stand no chance with these biased people.
You are right that a 100% Rafa would not have wasted so many break points and I don’t think Rafa served that well. He needs to fix that. When I say a 100% Rafa, I mean a Rafa who is not doubting himself. Clearly no one can play a faultless match against another top pro.
Rafa neutralised Stan and the commies are disappointed because they were all bigging Stan up predicting that Stan would win. Stan was berating his team because their strategy wasn’t working.
I admit it is completely different to watch replay of the match. I knew the result so I could focus on each point played without any fear or anticipation. I think Rafa served well in the Set 2 (71%) unlike Set 1 where his first serve was at 52%. It clearly indicates that once he gets the pressure off his back he plays more freely and his shots work better.
And I so much agree that Rafa neutralized Stan whose strategy was clearly wrong…Stanimal expected to face a doubtful Rafa hitting short and making errors whereas Rafa played some agressive tennis combining well defense and offense…Stan was not able to defend last night and could not position himself to hit those trademark BHs…that’s how good Rafa was…
He has made significant progress.
He’s now beating the guys that were beating him and that’s a crucial step.
His last step is to start beating the rest of the Big 4 again and I don’t see that level from him just yet. He was close in Basel.
The reasoning that Rafa plays badly because he doubts himself is flawed in many respects. The explanation of physical causes is more believable as Rafa has missed big chunks of seasons because of physical injuries. So physical factors hindering his career is an established fact. Mental illness hindering him is speculation. If true it might well be that all those years Rafa was claiming knee, shoulder, back injury or whatever he was actually in a mental asylum.
Posters get involved in convoluted explanations when they get confused between cause and effect.
Rafa has stated mental injury impacting his game is a fact.
You choose to use the term mental illness. That is your choice.
In other words, your argument is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
Obviously hawkeye your reasoning model is flawed. While physical factors maybe the cause, players can be troubled by the effects. If a man loses a leg, it is normal for him to go into depression or be anxious when trying out physical routines and he may talk of his anxiety or depression but you cannot say anxiety is the cause of his losing his leg.
Then your reasoning is also flawed because it is essentially the same as mine.
Please read more carefully.
I always read carefully. You have diagnosed Rafa’s problem as “anxiety disorder” .
I have diagnosed Rafa’s problems as physical injuries. To save his career and prevent repetitive injuries he has to implement new ways of playing but his new game so far is not effective. The newness plus the lack of power and speed caused by physical factors are causing him anxiety. According to you, he has forgotten how to play and lost his speed and power because of anxiety disorder.
Not carefully enough obviously.
Well I just hope that you not comparing “suspect” with “diagnose”.
Don’t you? or do you.
In other words, your argument is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
^^ ––“very close match” a “thriller”, a “long lasting grueling match––
They can’t have been watching the same match. There were a few longish rallies that’s it.
Goodall asked Koenig what he thought of WaWa’s performance to which he replied ‘if I were his coach I would have left the court a long time ago.”
I was watching his team and wondering whatever must they be thinking. From Stan’s comments later on I would say he was told he had to give some explanation for his behaviour. I guess that was the best he could come up with.
Koenig and Goodall were very candid openly criticizing Wawrinka’s lack of professionalism and lack of respect for the paying fans.
Similar criticisms from Tignor.
ed,
the commentators anticipated and hoped for the grueling match…at the start of the match the Serbian commentator was all excited about a “thriller” that he expected to see…obviously, Rafa beating Wawa easily is not what they hoped for…
why is it that people must drag about Wawa not being himself in this match rather than admitting Rafa played well and beat Wawa fair and square…before 2015 Rafa was never troubled by Wawa’s game (with H2H 14:3) except for that unfortunate back injury in 2014…
ed,
Yes! I absolutely agree with you. The match was not competitive at all, because Stan just didn’t show up. As I posted while live blogging yesterday, both Courier and Annacone were highly critical of Stan’s effort, or the lack thereof. If anyone thinks that Stan only played poorly because of Rafa, then they must have blinders on.
Rafa did play aggressive in that match. He stayed on or inside the baseline and was moving into the court. Rafa took advantage of a very poor game from Stan to get a break late in the first set and serve it out. Stan’s serving was not good at all. There were break chances that Rafa could not convert. He is still struggling with his serve. But I thought overall that Rafa kept up his aggressive play. However, I can’t say that Stan playing so poorly was all because of Rafa. Rafa didn’t make him serve like crap.
The tennis channel commies all but called out Stan for tanking late in the first set and in the second set. He just didn’t seem to really be there.
For heaven’s sake, no one is taking credit away from Rafa! Why some people have to go on and on about this endlessly, I have no idea. So much defensiveness! I don’t see anyone here saying that Rafa didn’t play well! He absolutely did play well. But to pretend that Stan was really in this and was making a real effort, is to just be in denial. He was out of it.
Bravo NNY.
Also mental illness is your diagnosis. You compared it with Fish’s problem which was a mental illness.
Well I just hope that you not comparing “compare” with “equate”. Don’t you? Or do you.
Besides it is improtant to distinguish between disorders and illnesses.
You choose to use the terms mental illness and assylums. That is your choice.
In other words, your argument is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
hawkeye has obtained his double PhD from straw man Univ. Congrats! Rise Dr hawkeye!
You are the Dean.
Sky says Ferrer was on the practice court before Rafa and it was very quiet but as soon as Rafa took over the crowd trebbled and all the sponsors came out of their tents to watch him
BREAKING
Sky specialises in breaking news, as it happens.
Vamos Rafa!
Why would Stan stop trying because of the format, every game counts even if you lose a match. Some people are just reluctant to give Rafa credit for anything.
That’s what sulkers do as Tignor, Koenig, Goodall, Chris Fowler and Mirka have pointed out on different occasions.
“Koenig and Goodall were very candid openly criticizing Wawrinka’s lack of professionalism and lack of respect for the paying fans.
Similar criticisms from Tignor.”
I think their criticism is disrespectful of Wawa! I didn’t see anyone criticizing Nishi for losing to Novak 6:1 6:1. That was, what?? expected? and where was there the so called” respect for paying fans”…
Nishi certainly does not seem injured and is moving pretty well against Berdy…so the injury excuse will not work this time…It seems to me that some people almost give the right to Nole to destroy his opponents while Rafa shall not be allowed the same? Why is that?
Tignor must have placed money on Wawa and lost…that’s it…and I hope he keeps on losing BIG money… 🙂
There really was no evidence that Nishi wasn’t trying against Nole despite the score.
However it was obvious that Wawrnka on many points was just slapping at the ball, abnormally rushing between points, playing flat footed and sulking about the court.
Nishi at least stayed positive and tried his best.
well, we will just have to wait for Rafa’s next match and see…
I think Nishi just gave up against Novak but that is my own opinion and it might be wrong…however, everyone would have expected Nishi to suffer a beat down because his opponent being “Mighty Nole”…Rafa OTOH due to experiencing serious issues this year “was not the least expected” to beat Wawa easily…he was supposed to suffer, to make comebacks, DFs, to have mental lapses, to make errors…nobody expected Rafa to play well and block Wawa’s natural game…this is why I think people have rather distorted picture of this match…
anyway, I am really proud of Rafa! I hope he proves that he can do it! I know he can…
Maybe near the end but it wasn’t obvious but Wawrinka takes it to a new level.
I am also proud of Rafa. He is now beating the guys he should really not have problems with like he did earlier this year.
The next step is the rest of the Big Four.
hawkeye,
I absolutely agree with you. So did Courier and Annacone. So did the tennis channel commies have some kind of bias against Rafa, refusing to give him credit for playing well? Annacone has always been very complimentary about Rafa’s game. He continued in that vein in the match with Stan. But Stan’s lack of effort and spraying errors all over the place, was also acknowledged by the commentators.
Anyway, in the end what does it matter what people say? Rafa won! What’s the big deal? No one is taking anything away from Rafa because overall he played well and won easily. Why is it so hard for some to acknowledge that Stan wasn’t at his best and did not give full effort? Both can be true.
Then there are these same generalizations all the time. As a matter of fact, I did expect Rafa to play well against Stan and that’s why I expected him to win. However, I did expect Stan to put up more of a fight.
I don’t ever remember the tennis channel commies being quite so critical of a player’s effort. Courier was especially harsh at times. Do they also have a bias against Rafa? I don’t think the world as a whole refuses to give Rafa credit when he plays well and wins. Stan’s serve stats were dreadful. The serve is the one thing that a player can control. So that is proof right there that Stan was off his game. It takes nothing away from Rafa giving a great effort and getting the win.
nny gets it.
ATP
Craig O’Shannessy
Nov 17 2015
Rally Control
Nadal was typically able to increase control as rallies developed, pressuring with superior court position, and getting the ball up high in Wawrinka’s backhand strike zone.
After the first three games of the match, Wawrinka had made contact with 60 per cent of his rally shots more than two metres behind the baseline, to only 27 per cent from Nadal.
Nadal’s forehand also had more spin on it than normal, averaging an astounding 3390 RPM’s. This helped push Wawrinka back, averaging hitting backhands 1.44m (4.7 feet) behind the baseline, to Nadal’s 1.19m (3.9 feet).
All of these key metrics point to one obvious conclusion for Nadal – his game is getting healthier.
The Spaniard was able to clearly frustrate Wawrinka, who rushed between points, and could not put together a clear game plan to counter Nadal’s key patterns. Wawrinka was often out of sorts, and Nadal must get most of the credit for that.
The rebuilding stage for Nadal is now in full flight. Key patterns are being correctly executed, and confidence is building.
“I go day by day, that’s all,” Nadal said in his post-match interview, clearly happy with his performance. That’s how a champion is made in our great game.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/brain-game-nadal-beats-wawrinka-at-london-2015
thanks nadline…this is great reading…exactly what I was saying…Wawa was not able to play in his comfort zone due to Rafa’s top spins (which I noticed where higher than before)…it further made it difficult for Wawa to play his BHs freely…pretty significant change in Rafa’s game which made me think he was using a different racquet (which he was not, as augusta confirmed!) Wawa was pushed way behind the baseline and couldn’t defend…such a good play by Rafa…it is so unfortunate that people do not see this and do not give Rafa credit for it…
Vamos Rafa!
Actually, that is exactly what I said Rafa was doing if you read any of my comments during the live blog for this match and also after Rafa won. I pointed out a few times how Rafa was staying close to or inside the baseline and forcing Stan to play more defensively. I also pointed out that Stan isn’t a great defender.
Maybe if people read more carefully, then they wouldn’t jump to erroneous conclusions. Rafa has been given a good deal of credit for how he played.
@ nny,
Your opinion is that Stan was not himself which is why Rafa was able to beat him. The same opinion we hear from the King of All Predictions his Majesty hawkeye… 🙂
I think Rafa played well and that is why Stan was not himself, i.e., was not able to play his A game…simple as that…and that is how we differ…I do not see how I made “erroneous conclusions”?
BTW, I did not even refer to your posts…I was reflecting to hawkeye posts and to those so called experts who were obviously not giving Rafa the credit where its due, but you jumped in…however, we are all entitled to our own opinion and discussions…no need to over react…I do not see hawkeye getting upset about any of it …he is just enjoying it and so should we… 🙂
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
When it was put to Stan that he wasn’t trying at his presser he said that’s not the case that they won’t understand what it’s like unless they were on court themselves.
Rafa knows that he beat Stan fair and square; if some people choose to qualify his victory I’m sure he won’t lose sleep over that.
What else would he say without risking a fine.
He should have been fined.
It was obvious to anyone with eyes.
hawkeye,
Again, I agree! That’s also what Courier and Annacone were saying. They did everything but come right out and say that Stan should have been fined for lack of effort. But they were unhappy with the lack of effort from him.
That takes absolutely nothing away from Rafa, who played very well. Now that I have seen Rafa, I am feeling better about his chances here. He’s continuing to be aggressive and staying close to the baseline. It’s paying off because his shots are much more effective than when he’s standing way behind the baseline.
That lob he hit to win one of the rallies, was just insane! Oh and by the way, the commentators were effusive in their praise of that one.
It would be one thing if it was an isolated incident but everyone like Courier, Annacone, Mirka, Koenig, Goodall, Tignor, Fowler, etc. can’t all be wrong.
Yep, Koenig gave full props to Rafa on many great shots last night and praised his professionalism in handling Wawrinka’s sulking behaviour. He is used to it by now.
@4:46 pm,
Oh, someone called ‘Mirka’ is an authoritative expert in the eyes of hawk!
Again, you are solely focussed with Mirka. It’s much broader than that. I don’t know why you are still focussing on that single event of so many examples.
But speaking of,yes, Mirka was a professional tennis player and Fed’s manager. So I’d definitely put her among the likes of Koenig, Goodall, Annacone, Courier, Miles, Tignor, Fowler, etc. that have called Wawrinka out on his sulking.
When Wawrinka complained to Layhani about Rafa taking too long last night, Koenig and Goodall rightly pointed out that he had no right to complain.
@5:22,
—Again, you are solely focussed with Mirka.—
===
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Again: Tiggy and YOU brought her up.
No he brought her up amongst a list of prior examples. It was about Wawrinka’s chronically poor behaviour.
But you are making it about Mirka and focussing on her alone. Yet again.
And therein lies the difference.
@ 5:56 pm,
.
Speaking of poor behaviour, I wrote at 6:11 that Mr. Tiggy continues to make attempts to justify somebodies poor behavior. You have been doing the same thing for a long time.
I’m sorry if that is how you still feel.
Not in a long time I haven’t justified it. So why continue to bring it up repeatedly with nothing new to add to it.
While her behaviour was definitely poor in the heat of the moment, the observation itself was quite accurate at the time and is shared by many tennis experts as being a chronic problem of Wawrinka.
That was Tignor’s point. And mine. It wasn’t about Mirka.
@ 6:19 pm
—Not in a long time I haven’t justified it. So why continue to bring it up repeatedly…—
===
.
What??? YOU have repeatedly justified her behaviour in THIS thread!
Not her behaviour I didn’t on this thread or in a long time even before site rules were established..
But I do justify her observation along with everybody else mentioned.
Her behaviour was wrong. But not her observation.
Therein lies the difference.
Again, it’s about Wawrinka, not Mirka.
@6:36 pm
—Not her behaviour I didn’t on this thread or in a long time even before site rules were established..—
===
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What??? What does her (Mrs. Fed) behaviour at the 2014 WTF has to do with the Site (The Grandstand) Rules!
Nothing. It was just a point of reference.
Definitely not worth three question marks and an exclamation.
nats,
I am not overreacting in the least. I did say that Stan was not himself, but that is not all I said. I specifically made a point of saying that Rafa was standing on or inside the baseline and forcing Stan to play from further back. You are cherry picking what I said, without including all that I said.
I do not think that Stan making 35 UE’s in a two set match means he was playing well. I do not think his serve stats were good at all. Well below normal. I believe he won something like 38% of second serve points. First serve stats were average. So he was definitely off his game.
I have also given Rafa all due credit for his efforts. That may have caused some of Stan’s poor play, but not the serving and not that high a number of UE’s. Stan was spraying errors all over the place, to the point where the tennis channel commies were questioning his effort.
I don’t know to whom you were addressing your comment because it was a general one to the effect of people not giving Rafa credit for playing well. I don’t know which people you were referencing. I merely pointed out what I said, which is not confined to simply stating that Stan wasn’t himself. There was more to what I said.
I have never had any issue with you. I wanted to make a point, that’s all. You have been reasonable and fair, so there’s no reason for me to take any offense. 🙂
I was the first one to say rafa played well and he did some really good things. Positive steps. I was better able to analyze when I watched it on Tv.
stan was NOT playing great. He just hit some good shots but misfired a lot . Rafa showed some really encouraging signs but , yeah, the lopsided scoreline is also a result of stan misfiring a lot… surely..
@nny,
I never said Stan played well…I said Stan was not allowed to play well because of Rafa’s great game and tactics…that is all…
I am glad Rafa is back to wining ways and it is all that matters…we all see his matches differently and interpret it in various ways…but all we care is Rafa beating his opponents and that we can all agree on!
At least I have hawkeye admitting that he was wrong in assessing Rafa’s game vs Murray… 🙂 Gosh, he is right, isn’t he?…this site is somehow hawkeye centric… 🙂
NNY, I respect your tennis knowledge and there is no reason to feel differently now…cheers!
No one is qualifying Rafa’s victory over Stan. There will no asterisk next to his win that says – Stan didn’t play well and give full effort! It doesn’t work that way.
You are always aboard any bandwagon that puts Rafa down, ever since you started posting here and I don’t expect that to change. Say anything negative about any of the other top players and your mother hen comes out to defend them.
And you are always aboard any bandwagon that puts things into balance and perspective with any small modicum of objectivity.
Absolutely.
hawkeye,
Who was that comment directed at – you or me? Or both of us!
Some things never change.
Not you nny.
@natashao2013 says:
November 17, 2015 at 3:37 pm
nats, you are spot on. Just read what Miles Maclagan had to say during the match. They all expected Rafa to go down and can’t accept that they are wrong.
‘Wawrinka attitude disappointing’
Nadal beats Wawrinka
Miles Maclagan
British tennis coach on Radio 5 live sports extra
Posted at 21:44
We weren’t expecting that result at all. Wawrinka broke in the first game but then lost his serve immediately. It was a great tussle with Nadal asking questions and eventually he broke through and in the end it was a disappointing contest. Wawrinka’s attitude was disappointing tonight. He wasn’t prepared to put in the intensity needed to beat Nadal.
I agree with Miles. Wawrinka’s attitude was indeed disappointing. How many times did he throw his racquet last night.
Add Miles to the list of Koenig, Goodall, Annacone, Courier, Mirka, Tignor, Fowler, etc. that have all called Wawrinka out for his umprofessional, childish and disrespectful behaviour.
If throwing your racquet is disappointing attitude, stand up Novak.
That is just cherry picking without the bigger picture.
Understandable.
Why would anyone expect Rafa to lose? I sure didn’t! I do think that the commentators and media thought it would be a more competitive match.
I thought Miles made some good points about the match. I think that he and many others did expect it to be a more competitive match. Nothing wrong with that at all. He did give Rafa credit for how he played.
Stan did a lot more than just throw his racket. He didn’t put full effort into this match. He seemed disconnected and not fully into the match. That’s not what Novak does in his matches. He at least gives a decent effort.
Rafa has given Novak full credit for what he’s done. He’s got enough class to acknowledge what has been accomplished by his rival. I merely agree with Rafa! 🙂
Exhibit 1
Exhibit 1 of fairness and rational observation.
hawkeye,
Thanks! I think we should take our example from Rafa. Isn’t funny that no matter how often we point out how Rafa has been critical of his game in the past and that he has given praise and respect to his rivals, it falls on deaf ears!
I guess some do not want to follow the behavior of their favorite player! 🙂
@at 6:23 pm,
A fan of a player is under no obligation to praise every player.
No one said they were under obligation.
Likewise, a fan of a player is under no obligation to praise just one player. It makes them no less a fan.
@ 6:57 pm,
—no one—
===
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Are you everyone’s secretary?!
@6:51 pm,
–A fan of a player–
===
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Are you?!
@7:16 pm
http://www.emoticonland.net/smileys/sports/spoort014.gif
@6:51 pm,
–A fan of a player–
===
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Are you everyone’s secretary?!
hawkeye, none of my comments refer to you, you don’t need to get involved.
It’s ok. I don’t mind.
Hawkeye,
See? It was meant for me! Nothing new there. Same old, same old. Never changes.
Exactly nny. She is breaking site rule II B.Constant harassment.
So now that you have pointed out the violation of the rules, what is to be done? The harassment doesn’t stop.
Up to Ricky as judge and jury.
I just ignore it or have fun with it. (Usually the latter.)
nativenewyorker7 ( at 7:37 pm),
I am wondering why you don’t consider the comment posted on November 17, 2015 at 4:50 pm to be a violation of the Site Rules.
augusta08 ( at 10:34pm),
I am wondering why you don’t consider the comment posted on November 17, 2015 at 4:38 pm and 10:34 to be a violation of the Site Rules. (II B. Harrassment)
@11:01 pm,
Comments @4:38 pm were posted by you and NNY. I suggest you to punish yourself/yourselves.
As for the rest of your comment, it’s up to the owner of the site to take care of you…
Excuse me, is there a thread for Benoit Paire anywhere here?
Social -> Player Pages -> The Rest
https://tenngrand.com/social/player-pages/non-big-4/
Thanks. Another handy thread.
hawkeye,
I will choose to ignore it and let it be up to Ricky.
Good choice! 🙂