First on clay. Now on grass.
Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal will be facing each other in a second straight Grand Slam semifinal–a relative streak by this rivalry’s recent standards–when they meet again at Wimbledon on Friday afternoon.
Nadal leads the head-to-head series 24-15, but Federer holds a 13-10 edge on surfaces other than clay. The Swiss has won two of their three previous grass-court encounters, all of which have come in Wimbledon finals. He prevailed 6-0, 7-6(5), 6-7(2), 6-3 in 2006 and 7-6(7), 4-6, 7-6(3), 2-6, 6-2 in 2007 before Nadal triumphed 6-4, 6-4, 6-7(5), 6-7(8), 9-7 in perhaps the greatest match ever played in 2008.
“(I’m) excited to be back on this court against him after 11 years,” said the Spaniard. “(It) means a lot for me and probably for him, too. (I’m), excited about this match, excited about this opportunity to be again against him.”
Following those three consecutive showdowns from 2006 through 2008, the two all-time greats suddenly went 10 years without colliding a single time at the All-England Club. In fact, they did not square off at any slam in between the 2014 and 2017 Australian Opens or at any slam in between the 2017 Australian Open and 2019 French Open. Nadal predictably dominated 6-3, 6-4, 6-2 in the Roland Garros semis en route to his 18th major title and now he and Federer are going at it again just one month later.
It is Federer’s turn to have proverbial home-court advantage this time around. The 37-year-old has won eight of his 20 major titles at the All-England Club and he has been to the final on three other occasions. Federer has improved his lifetime Wimbledon record to 100-12 following victories this fortnight over Lloyd Harris (four sets), Jay Clarke, Lucas Pouille, Matteo Berrettini, and Kei Nishikori (four sets).
Nadal is certainly no slouch in London, with two titles and three runner-up performances. The world No. 2 is 5-1 in Wimbledon semifinals, having lost only to Novak Djokovic 6-4, 3-6, 7-6(9), 3-6, 10-8 last summer in a contest that lasted two days because of the preceding Kevin Anderson vs. John Isner match followed by eventual darkness. Nadal finds himself back in the semis thanks to defeats of Yuichi Sugita, Nick Kyrgios (four sets), Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, Joao Sousa, and Sam Querrey.
“It’s going to be tough,” Federer assured. “Rafa really can hurt anybody on any surface. I mean, he’s that good. He’s not just a clay-court specialist, we know…. I feel like conditions were slightly different (at the French Open),” he continued when asked if any past matches against Nadal would have any impact on Friday’s outcome. “It was so windy; it was just insane. I haven’t heard it was going to be the same, so I hope not, even though that would be funny again.”
Actually, conditions should be just about perfect–good news for both players but especially music to Nadal’s ears since the roof will be open, which was not the case when he fell to Djokovic in 2018.
Federer also noted that current form would have more to with the upcoming result than head-to-head history. Neither factor, however, favors the No. 2 seed. Although he is without question playing stellar tennis, Nadal has been ruthless throughout the event and has posted more convincing wins over tougher grass-court opposition. Although grass obviously levels the playing field, it should not completely tip the scales away from another Nadal victory.
Pick: Nadal in 4
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WHO YA GOT?
I’ve got Rafa in 4. Fedfans should be scared of a Rafa win here. This would pretty much get rid of his ‘claydal’ nickname and means that Roger isn’t leading Rafa in any GS H2H. If Rafa does win the title, he’s only one away so that’s pretty much assured to be RG 2020. Getting a win vs Roger on Friday would feel like a GS title win on its own, never mind the final
The only reason we are having this conversation is because the courts have been uncharacteristically slow this year but they seem to be getting faster as we get closer to the game. Recent history clearly shows that Nadal doesn’t have a chance against Federer on fast courts
Rafa in 4 as well. Fed’s backhand isn’t where it was in 2017 and Rafa has been returning well this Wimbledon.
Also your stay that the H2H is 13-2 for Fed off clay is way off. Think it’s 13-2 Rafa on clay actually.
14-2 clay
Rafa in 4 as well. Fed’s backhand isn’t where it was in 2017 and Rafa has been returning well this Wimbledon.
Also your stat that the H2H is 13-2 for Fed off clay is way off. Think it’s 13-2 Rafa on clay actually.
JC. Ricky must’ve indeed made a mistake: how can Fed have an edge of 13-2 over Rafa on non-clay surfaces?? Even without checking the archives I’m absolutely sure that this isn’t correct,since I could name solely by consulting my memory banks many more than two wins over Fed on grass and hard courts combined😊
10
That sounds more like it. Rafa used to have for many years an edge over Fed on non-clay surfaces, too, until Fed went onto his five-match winning spree over the last few years, and he has a slight lead now.
I didn’t think Fed would win Wimby a few days ago ,when I saw him struggling to hit winners on the slow grass .Then he destroyed Berrettini but still struggled to put Nishikori away.
So I don’t see any reason to expect Fed to beat an even better counterpuncher unless he serves like he did in 2015.Possible but looking unlikely .
The one thing Fed has in his favour is that for once he’s not got the huge expectation of winning because it’s grass.
Most likely result, Rafa in 3. Federer in his best moment had troubles with Nadal. Today, Nadal had evolve and is a best player. Federer don’t have enough stamina to fight. 3-1 if Nadal got nervous closing first set but if Nadal win first set the final score will be similar to Roland Garros. 5 Sets? Never.
Quin, the courts at Wimbledon this year have been slower than ever and that favors brute power over class but the courts seem to be getting faster this week.Federer in 3
So now the court becomes faster, when Pella said is slow? You’re the one playing out there or Pella?
It’s very simple. When Fed wins the court is fast, when Rafa wins it’s slow. QED
Its pretty simple, a low bounce suits Fed not Rafa.
Haha that’s so true so we won’t know if courts are slow or fast until after both matches are complete and then the court changes speed again before the final 😁
10 years ago, the best Federer on grass, struggle to win a match against a novice Nadal. Today, we have an Federer with no much stamina and an evolve Nadal. Nadal make a lot of improvements in his game. Its no way that today Federer win 3-0. I really think that the score would be very similar to that in RG last month.
Roger in 4 with one tie breaker.
Federer’s best tennis still beats Nadal on every surface except clay. But that top level has been harder to find, or so it seems. Federer still has yet to lose on grass this year; and he’s lost only a few matches all year, almost all where his opponents red-lined. Unfortunately for him, Nadal’s game has been close to that level the entire tournament.
As I’ve said, I think the Nadal-Kyrgios match is the key one to look at. I don’t think Nadal has improved on his level in that match; in fact, that was about as well as he can play, apart from a blip in the 2nd set. Yet he didn’t dominate that match; he could well have lost it. I think he would have lost it had Kyrgios been a bit mentally tougher. And Fed is perfectly capable of bringing that level of tennis, or better. His mental toughness particularly is now (since 2017) the equal of Nadal, and he seems to go into (and play) every match with the right attitude. I also think the win streak of 2015-17 is more relevant than the recent RG match. Federer in 4.
Nope, not on slow HCs – AO2009, 2012, 2014 to name a few. Fed’s best during those times weren’t good enough to beat Rafa.
Both Indian Wells and Miami are slow courts and Fed won those matches easily in 2017.
So? Was Rafa playing his best tennis in 2017?
no
He won two slams and reached the final of another. He played about as well as he ever has on HC in winning Beijing.
I’d say that’s pretty close to his best tennis. Maybe you just think that he failed to play his best when playing Federer? Hmmm.
Joe, if you think Rafa played his best tennis at IW/Miami, then I must say you’re dreaming. He was dreadful both times. It’s only during the clay season that year that he played his best tennis. On HC itself, he was quite poor except when at the slams. He even lost in R3 and QF at Canada and Cincy respectively before winning at the USO. Even at the HC slams, he struggled through the first few rounds.
He was good at Beijing but after playing the Laver Cup, to play B2B from Beijing to Shanghai was too much for him. If you want to look at Rafa at his best on the HCs, think 2013 and also second half of 2010. While HC wasn’t his best surface, he did reasonably well on them for most of his career, just not as stellar as Fed or Djoko.
He had won at least a HC title each year from 2005-2010; and then in 2013, 2014, 2017, 2018 (and those were either Masters or slams, with exception of 2006, 2014).
Sounds like typical excuses from a Rafa fan when he loses. He got beat by the much better player in IW and Miami, period, which fell in between a slam he narrowly lost (AO) and one he won convincingly (RG).
Nope, watch the matches again, compare Rafa in 2017 to Rafa in 2013 on the HCs. You’re dreaming if you think Fed beat a Rafa at his best on the HCs.
Rafa even got bageled by Kohl in Miami! When Rafa was playing well at the AO, he beat Fed there thrice on the slow HCs. You think he played better at IW/Miami 2017 than at the AOs in the previous years??
More excuses, Lucky. Has it crossed your mind that Rafa wasn’t at his best because Fed prevented it?
Rafa DEFINITELY improved from the Kyrgios match. His forehand has gotten better and he has made progress. He acknowledged that himself and it is only natural that he’d improve. What’s most important is the freedom you get once feel so confident. Your movement becomes more explosive and you are a lot clearer in your head regarding what to do.
If Nadal had struggled to reach the SF, I would have picked Fed. Seeing how he has reached this stage, have to go with Rafa now. Unless Fed can serve insanely well throughout the match and keep a high first serve %, he’ll find it very hard to break down Rafa’s game in best of 5.
Also, keep in mind that Fed won’t get many attackable 2nd serves this time. AO attack. Rafa really upped his 2nd serve after those losses to Fed in 2017 and it’s been a while since that match .
Winning in RG was a blessing for Rafa and he will be fully confident. Even with an inferior serve in 2008, Rafa was the one more secure on service games in that final! Fed will try to attack the more now than he did in 2008 but Rafa will be ready too.
I beleive Rafa’s biggset strength is his ability to problem solve. In the long-run, he almost always found the solutions against everyone on every surface. He knows the points Fed exploited in 2017 and will be ready. Fed’s probably the grass GOAT but I have full faith in Rafa to win this one in 4 sets.
We will see some AMAZING rallies tomorrow.
Long live Fedal!
I don’t agree. From what I saw, Nadal played at a similar level against Tsonga and Sousa, but less well against Querrey. What is undeniable is that Kyrgios played the best of any of Rafa’s opponents. Naturally, that is going to limit some of the things Nadal can do, and that will be true against Roger as well; just as Rafa will limit some of the things Fed can do.
vr,
Thank you! I was ready to scream after reading that Rafa has not improved since his round 2 match with Kyrgios! Say what?
Needless to say, I agree with you! There is something to be said for the intangibles in a player’s game and that is where I saw the improvement after the win against Kyrgios. The confidence and big boost from beating the toughest opponent he could have faced in a second round match, cannot be overestimated. Rafa’s movement has been phenomenal since that match. He has been incredibly focused and mentally strong. It was like he was freed after winning that match. Like he got a monkey off his back. He has been on fire since then. I have never seen him so pumped.
Rafa has been hitting his CC backhand brilliantly. His DTL forehand has been an even more ferocious weapon. I think that victory meant a great deal to Rafa and especially beating Kyrgios in two TB’s.
Seeing Rafa take over and demolish Querrey in the next two sets was something. The only thing I saw that was not as good as his previous matches was his serving in the first set. But he corrected that in sets three and four. Rafa is playing freely and with an abandon that I have not seen in a while.
I expect to see a great match from these two rivals. When all is said and done, we are truly lucky to be able to see it.
Sorry, in my comment above I meant to say that Rafa improved his serving against Querrey in sets 2 and 3.
thanks for your comments, NNY.
Agree with all points. Clearly remember Rafa’s reaction and how energised he looked following his win over NK.
Joe, did Rafa need to improve on that Kyrgios match having to beat Tsonga, Sousa and Querrey? None of them could make Rafa raise his level! And the scary part is that Rafa need not even play his best to beat them! Rafa may still have a few more gears to go to should he need to do so!
Fed OTOH, was so up and down with his level – he looked unbeatable against Berrettini but when he met Kei, he struggled for a set, and had to fight hard to beat Kei. Tell me, did Fed improve on his level from the Berrettini match to the Nishikori match?
what is Federer’s best? You mean Federer in his prime or Federer now?
Federer’s now best only beats Nadal’s best on fast hard…or an ice rink.
Yep. It is only fast hard courts (esp indoor) where I would say it is on Fed’s racket.
Blue clay = ice?
as close as possible!
Fed’s prime: definitely. But also Fed’s best since adopting the larger racquet. At least, until Nadal shows otherwise, I’m sticking with that claim. We shall soon find out.
Haha, were we saying back in2017 that Fed is even fav even on clay against Rafa now that he has a bigger racket? That was so blown out of propprtion and didnt make any sense.
Joe, I think you believe most of Rafa’s matches are on his opponents’ rackets. It is almost always the opposite. The balance of attack and defense possessed by Rafa is unique and he is the man when confidence is high.
Notice I have not said that today’s match is on Fed’s racquet. That is because Nadal has changed his game substantially into an attacking game, with still great defense. I think the player who plays more aggressively (while still consistent) will win today. That could be Rafa; I just don’t think it will be.
I wouldn’t have made any Fed-related clay predictions in 2017 since he didn’t play.
Regarding the racquet, if you have a better explanation of why Fed from mid-2014 onwards has been better than Fed mid-2010-2014, despite being much older, I’m all ears. The larger racquet has made a huge difference to his game. Lots of people, including Fed himself, have said so.
How many times have they actually played on fast courts where it was on Feds racquet? Esp fast grass??
Bearing in mind Fed had more experience of fast grass before Rafa did.
Interestingly Federer only started winning his first Wimby trophies AFTER the grass had been slowed down – which happened after Ivanisevic’s win in 2001. There was a reason why an ailing Ivanisevic, whose nickname was “Master of the 1000 Aces”, could win Wimby mainly by serving insanely well. The final between him and Rafter featured hardly an rallyes. But in 2002 Lleyton Hewitt won the title against David Nalbandian. Both of them were indefatigable counterpunchers and not known for a strong serve. From 2003 onwards Fed’s rule started and it’s a myth that Fed’s success came initially on faster grass courts.
Roger won five Wimby trophies in a row from 2003 – 2007. That was after the courts had been slowed down. So, obviously it must’ve suited him just fine. And Rafa won his maiden Wimby trophy on exactly the same court. It had not been slowed down any further. It’s a myth that Rafa only won against Roger because the courts had been slowed down even more.
Big Al, if you’re assuming that they didn’t slow down the fast grass (from 2002 onwards), then what make you think that Rafa would still be playing the way he’s playing (on slow grass)?
In fact during Rafa’s debut at Wimbledon in 2003 as a17 yo, he tried to S&V too instead of staying at the baseline. He lost in R3 to Srichaphan the no.11 player then. Had the grass surface remained quick, won’t Toni Nadal trained Rafa to play a different style (S&V) on grass instead of playing a baseline game?
Rafa has great hands when at the net, surely if the grass courts remained quick, Rafa would be trained to S&V from young to play on them. We might then see a different Rafa; so you can’t compare a Fed who played his early atp tour in the S&V era to a Rafa who didn’t (though Rafa would be playing his junior days during that era so he also got to play on fast indoor and outdoor courts).
I said Fed had more experience of fast grass , playing on it since 1998,than Rafa ,that’s all.He did beat Sampras by S&Ving but then changed his game as the court became slower, as it did from 2002 .I don’t know about Rafas tactics if the grass had stayed fast. We’re getting into the realms of fantasy here…
Dubai 2006, Shanghai YEC 2006, 2007, AO2017, Shanghai 2017, Cincy 2013, Basel 2015. (If we don’t consider the WTF surfaces at O2 Arena being quick surfaces). Rafa is 2-5 against Fed on quick HCs. He’s 1-2 against Fed on grass.
Rafa is 14-2 vs Fed on clay. HCs are supposed to be Fed’s forte in addition to grass, but Rafa has done better when facing Fed on outdoor slower HCs – 6 vs 4. He’s 1-2 vs Fed on medium speed indoor HCs (at WTF won 2013 lost 2010, 2011).
So, Fed is better on quicker HCs, indoor HCs and grass; Rafa on clay and slower outdoor HCs. Rafa isn’t hopeless against Fed on quick courts, he’s at least better than Fed is on clay vs Rafa.
Im just talking specifically about fast courts and grass in particular. Why cant we have fast grass anymore?
I don’t understand why you bring clay into this discussion.
The problem for Rafa, is the bounce. I guess we’ll never see the Nineties conditions where Sampras was winning everything even against the Nadal of the time (Agassi) except on the higher bouncing surfaces.
That’s my point. He started on fast grass, just never got to play on it at his peak .He had to change his game , but since he beat Sampras as a 19 year old,it asks a few questions about how well he could have done if they hadn’t slowed it down.Ditto Tim Henmman..
We will never know…
Yep, we will never know. Fast grass, I think guys like Isner, Raonic, Anderson and Roddick should benefit more than Fed does. They should be the ones complaining, not Fed or his fans.
Think how much better Federer could have done if all matches were played on fast indoor courts!
Wimdbledon HAD to change the grass or become irrelevant. Tennis was being taken over by baseliners because the major surface was outdoor hard court with clay the second most common surface and racquets and strings were increasingly powerful. There were so few grass tournaments. It was possible that the top stars would stop coming to Wimbledon if they couldn’t hope to do well there. Wimbledon doesn’t just make a big change out of a clear blue sky.
Well, Rafa himself was serving aces (in fact more aces than Fed) this Wimbledon. If the surface is slower this year, then it doesn’t matter to Rafa as he’s serving more aces this year than before.
But Ramara, Fed didn’t win the Madrid indoors that many times when he’s playing there, managed to win it once in 2006 and lost to Nalby in 2007. If indoor HCs favour him, he should be winning there more often.
Likewise for Paris masters, played there in 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011; he only managed to win it once in 2011. In 2010 when the court there at Paris was Super quick, he lost to Monfils who then made the final and lost to Sod. He didn’t manage to win at Madrid and Paris indoor Masters prior to 2006 too.
Ramara, I don’t think that Wimby would’ve become totally irrelevant or that players would’ve skipped it. It’s too prestigious for that. But tennis fans were massively complaining and the tv ratings were on the verge of a considerable drop, because what the audience was seeing when the power servers were playing each other, was totally unattractive tennis. The Wimby final between Sampras and Ivanisevic (one of the three finals which Ivanisevic lost in the 1990s before he finally won his one and only title in 2001) was called one of ugliest finals ever. Rallyes and breaks rarely happened, Points were made through aces and double faults, and the sets were mostly decided by tie breakers. This wasn’t tennis anymore, this were shoot outs with racquets. Some time ago I watched the 2001 final between Ivanisevic and Rafter with a friend who’s isn’t very knowledgeable. I love that match for sentimental reasons because it’s such a good story, but she said: “Gee, pro tennis ist very different from what I imagined. I thought that the ball would actually be played and hit and fourth a couple of times”. I then showed her the 2008 final between Roger and Rafa – and she was immediately fascinated. Those who want to have faster Wimby courts again, have forgotten why the courts have been slowed down a bit in the first place.
As Lucky said, it’s not sure at all if Federer really would’ve really been one of the players who would’ve hugely profitted if the courts had not been slowed down a bit. This would’ve been far more advantageous for power servers like Isner and Raonic. As it is now, players with many different styles have a chance to succeed, and a good serve still helps a lot. Rafa didn’t become a force on grass because the courts have been slowed down by evil Fed haters but because he evolved into a more complete player. And no one was complaining when Fed ein his First five Wimby titles on exactly the same court on which Rafa finally succeeded.
String technology necessitated slower courts, especially at Wimby. You’re right that the tennis was getting boring to watch.
I was going to make the exact same point as @Joe Smith.
It would have been INSANE to keep the same court speed in spite of all the improvements in racket and string technology.That would have horrendous for the game in my view.Sure, you should still have a balance and some courts should be medium-fast but the game has actually become so much more powerful. It’s only sane that conditions were managed either by slowing the surface a bit or by using heavier balls.
For Rafa, heavier balls are not great. He wants the balls to be more ‘lively’ when they take off the surface so that his forehand is at its lethal best.
I think the area of this game that benefits from slower conditions is the ROS. He gets a bit more time to return. With the conditions we have this time where the bounce is lower, he finds it a bit easier to return kick serves as they don’t get out of his comfort zone that much.
Lower bounce also hurts his game in some ways, of course. The execution of forehand DTL gets more challenging, the effect of his topspin is diminished a bit, it gets tougher t o defend from a deep positioning while it gets easier for his opponents to rush him.
Joe Smith, I agree. Strings and raquet technology had a lot to do with these developments. And while we might miss good serve-and-volleying these days – although it can still be rewarding if executed expertly – there was a period during the 1990s where tennis on faster courts was often unwatchable, and something needed to be done asap. Also, people forget that at the same time the clay courts became faster. There was an overall homogenisation of court speed and it is no coincidence that Roger, Rafa and Novak all managed to achieve a career slam – something which eluded all other great players of the open period except for Agassi. And Bjørn Borg’s FO/Wimby doubles were probably more difficult to achieve than Roger’s and Rafa’s so-called channel slams, because the FO courts were slower and Wimby courts were faster when Borg was doing his heroics. That’s why it is so difficult to compare the achievements of players who belong to different generations.
I don’t have time to watch the Big Match – which may be a good thing because normally I’m too nervous for watching when I’m rooting for a specific player. But I wish all tennis fans here to have fun this afternoon. I hope it will be a good match 🎆
To littlefoot,Lucky & other Rafans…check this out!
https://lastwordontennis.com/2019/07/11/problem-roger-federer-aces/
Good news for Rafa huh?
Hi Mira, see my post at 12.50am. Thanks for the links.
Lucky…Yeah,i did…and u’re welcome!…
U too littlefoot!…hehe..✌
This too guys!…
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/moya-previews-nadal-federer-wimbledon-2019-sf#
Mira Andi, thanks😉
Lovely interview by moya. I love reading moya’s take. Thanks Mira.
You’re much welcome Sanju!…I hope after reading it,u will not be too nervous this afternoon k?
I will be nervous n not watch it n just hope he wins. I am hoping for the best.
How can you be too nervous to watch, Sanju? Don’t you feel like you’re missing out?
Maybe I am missing out but I watch extended highlights :-)..I used to watch regularly till 2014..but that 2014 final in AO where he got injured n lost the chance of double career slam..it gutted me totally (:-
Haha, were we saying back in2017 that Fed is even fav even on clay against Rafa now that he has a bigger racket? That was so blown out of propprtion and didnt make any sense.
Joe, I think you believe most of Rafa’s matches are on his opponents’ rackets. It is almost always the opposite. The balance of attack and defense possessed by Rafa is unique and he is the man when confidence is high.
Yes VR, don’t you know Rafa is always at the mercy of his opponent’s racket? Even on clay?
We should be glad though that he managed to win 82 titles (18 slams, 34 Masters and an Olympics Gold medal) and winning 83% of his matches when at the mercy of his opponents and their rackets.
Just imagine, if Rafa need not be at their mercy, Rafa will be winning 100% of his matches!
Rafa is a far more accomplished player on grass than Roger is on clay.
Slightly better? Arguable. Far more accomplished? Nope. Fed has lost a lot at the FO but still made the final five times and rarely lost to a below average player since he started winning slams. Can’t say the same for Rafa @ Wimbledon. Look at the respective win %’s, they’re fairly similar at 80% and 81%.
Lovely interview by moya. I love reading moya’s take. Thanks Mira.
Yes, I think that Moya developed into a very astute and intelligent coach befitting Rafa’s high level of introspection. And while Moya – Just like Rafa – never underestimates any opponents, he has done wonders for Rafa’s Level of confidence. That might be one reason why Rafa was able to play frequently on such a high level even after coming back from an injury. However, Moya said one Thing which turned on my frazzling-for-Rafa mode after all: He Said that the upcoming match won’t be Long and protracted If Fed doesn’t want that since the more agressive player will come out in top. I think that Moya is right and Fed will come out with all guns blazing. But while Rafa can be agressive this kind of game is not as natural to him as it is to Fed. We have to hope that Rafa will find the correct level of agressiveness and that Rafa makes Fed won’t be able to execute everything flawlessly.
Fed won’t be able to execute everything flawlessly against Rafa in best of five! Rafa is playing at a high level, better than his AO2017. His serve is much better now, what he needs to do is to stay calm and attacks Fed’s weaknesses.
Yeah littlefoot….I can’t wait to c how Rafa will handle Roger’s attacking tennis esp.in the 1st set…
I guess Rafa too will come out a little bit nervous…but hope he can calm himself very quickly after that…
I thanked God very much bcoz Rafa managed to break his losing streak against Roger at the FO…If not,i’m very sure it ‘s very tough too for Rafa to deal with Roger on his sacred place…with that win,Rafa sure can go out on court knowing that he just beat Roger & thinking..”hey! I can do it again..why not?..i am fresh,i am healthy,i’m younger than him,i have more stamina than him..and i just beat Nicky the brat!…surely,i can beat Roger too!”…hàaaa!!…that’s it!!…let’s c if it’s true!hehehe….
Ohh…forgot to say….RAFA IN 4!!..Insyaallah!!…woohoo!!
Federer in 5. Flip a coin here. THIS IS GONNA BE A GOOD ONE PEOPLE 🍿
☺Benny, normally I never make forecasts, but this time I will represent the other side of our coin and say that Rafa will make it in four or five sets! Although it’s quite possible that this won’t be a long and protracted match at all and that one of them will overcome the other fairly quickly. We will see if the trailing opponent can muster the energy and will power for mounting a comeback.
I think big challenge for Nadal is that he has not defeated Fed and Djokovic since 2013 on non clay surfaces – that is around a ridiculous 6 years gap. Nadal may have been playing aggressive tennis. But, if Federer is confident, it wont matter. Australian Open Final 2019 is a prime example that who is more confident compare to the rival will get the victory irrespective of who is playing well. It is confidence who will shape the effectiveness of your play on a particular day against arch rivals. If federer feel like ‘nothing to lose’ and does have a confidence, he would beat Nadal in 4 sets – if not in straight.
Federer should win 5 but this is getting tiring. We have the same 32+ Geezers reaching the finals of the slams, and no NextGen hope is stepping up to stop them. It is quite troubling for tennis as a sport. http://www.138mph.com/the-big-three-and-bautista-agut-in-the-semifinals-at-wimbledon/
Nidhi, I agree that the inability of the younger generation to make any kind of impact at the slams is disappointing and troubling – those who aren’t fans of the Big Three must be bored out of their minds. And I think that the sustained excellence of Fed/Rafa/Djoker has a lot to do with the continuing failure of the young guns to make a lasting breakthrough. The Big Three plus Murray and Wawrinka created a wasteland for a lost generation of players who were never able to make a sustained impact before they started to fade away. I’m talking about Dimitrov, Raonic et al. We will see on which side Thiem will eventually end up. The suffocating dominance of the Big Three must’ve been psychologically cripplng because the younger generation could never really picture themselves as future slam winners. They could never truly imagine to hold up the biggest trophies.and they got used to having to settle for being permanent semi-finalists or runner-ups If things are going really well . They may imagine to overcome one of the power trio (or former quartet), but it was – and still is – next to impossible to go out after a big win and slay the next towering GOAT candidate! Thiem said as much after his win over Novak in Paris this year: it’s like climbing the Mt. Everest – and then you have to go out two days later and do it all over again! For the younger generation there isn’t one Mt.Everest – there are three Mt.Everests! And the most recent next generation (Tsitsipas, FAA, Zverev et al) grew up with the current state of affairs and never knew anything different. So, why should they strive to become perfect if ultimately they aren’t able to reap the biggest rewards? The very young ones can at least hope that some retirements are not too far away – although Novak and Rafa could keep going for a few more years if they stay reasonably healthy. Even Roger could stay around for a bit longer. Why shouldn’t he? He, as well as Rafa and Novak are still so much better than most of the young guns.
Overall this could be true: it is no coincidence that the so-called Golden Age of tennis may be followed by a very mediocre period. It was a chance in a million and may never happen again that three GOAT candidates compete at the same time. But this freak coincidence may have created a wasteland for the next generations of tennis players.
That said, I see another structural problem: being a professional tennis player isn’t potentially as financially rewarding as other pro sports. Only the top 100 are able to make a living, and most of them won’t get exactly rich. But those few who make it into the top ten and who make big bucks, have then many more resources at their disposal than the lower tiers – and are therefore able to stabilize their top positions even further, since they can create the best possible enviroment for themselves. And an optimal enviroment may translate into increased longevity, too. This state of affairs could have the consequence that many young and very talented athlets will not chose tennis but another sport, where the chances of eventually being able to make a comfortable living, are better. And this may reduce the talent pool of future tennis pros. I think it’s probably unfair to say that the young guns are just not hungry enough. While this may be true for a few of them (Kyrgios, cough, cough), the opposite may be true for many young journey men. Tennis needs to create more financial security for their journeymen and women. Novak has actually pointed this out more than once. The problem is, that many think he is not going into the right direction in the players council.
Not all doom and gloom imo. The big three will be retiring in a few years, and the Tsitsipas generation will take over from there.
Tsit at 20 has already reached a SF beating one of the big three Fed in the process. He’s unlike say Kyrgios, who at 19 had beaten Rafa at Wimbledon, but thereafter he had done nothing of note at the slams for the next five years. Tsitsipas is one determined and focused youngster, I say he will not go the path of Kyrgios.
FAA has just started out at the slams, give him time. Even if we are not placing much hope on the rest of the youngsters and the mid to late 20 guys, there’re still Tsitsipas and FAA to look forward to.
Don’t forget Thiem who’s getting better and better on clay, and even on the slower HCs (won IW bearing Fed in the final). He’s only 25/26, so he still has time on his side. He may win the FO one day, maybe two of them!
Nadal in 5 , last set easy
What is this crap that Rafa has not beaten fed since 2013 on non clay..firstly he beat him in 2014 ao semis..so correct the stat fedfans. Secondly from 2014 till date that have played 6 out of which Rafa won 1 and fed 5. The 2015 win was Basel indoors .no big deal as indoors anyways fed is favourite..all other wins came in just one year 2017..so stop exaggerating 5 years or 6 years as they never even played each other 3 of those years. The hypocrisy is sick.
Sanju, I agree that those stats are a bit misleading as far as Roger is concerned, since Rafa didn’t even play Roger for almost two years before this year’s FO (last win of Roger happened in Shanghai 2017). A lot has been going on since then, and besides: Roger managed to turn the tables on Rafa after years of constant disappointments – kudos for that btw – so who says that Rafa can’t do the same? We will see..
I’m more concerned about Novak – IF Rafa pulls off the win over Roger and will meet Novak in the final, that is. Rafa lost his last two slam matches against Novak a bit more recently after. Therefore that’s a bit more significant. But as Rafa said so astutely: “if, if, if doesn’t exist!” Btw, this might end up to be the most quoted and enduring line of all Wimby 2019 interviews. But it also means that Rafa and his fans shouldn’t start worrying about the Djoker just yet. The upcoming match is all that counts right now.
Joe Smith, I agree. Strings and raquet technology had a lot to do with these developments. And while we might miss good serve-and-volleying these days – although it can still be rewarding if executed expertly – there was a period during the 1990s where tennis on faster courts was often unwatchable, and something needed to be done asap. Also, people forget that at the same time the clay courts became faster. There was an overall homogenisation of court speed and it is no coincidence that Roger, Rafa and Novak all managed to achieve a career slam – something which eluded all other great players of the open period except for Agassi. And Bjørn Borg’s FO/Wimby doubles were probably more difficult to achieve than Roger’s and Rafa’s so-called channel slams, because the FO courts were slower and Wimby courts were faster when Borg was doing his heroics. That’s why it is so difficult to compare the achievements of players who belong to different generations.
I don’t have time to watch the Big Match – which may be a good thing because normally I’m too nervous for watching when I’m rooting for a specific player. But I wish all tennis fans here to have fun this afternoon. I hope it will be a good match 🎆
Keep your mind sharp and focused, remain confident, be strong and show your warrior spirit, Rafa!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_RCrHUU4AgMJxc.jpg
Vamos Rafa!
Can anyone please provide with me with the link of the stream they are using. The espn app is atrocious. Only multicam available. Hoping it will be telecast in the office cafeteria.
https://tennis-stream.net
Agree with Shireling, MA and VR.
GOAT FTW NID.
VAMOSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
#BEL19VE
hawkFDT love your summary 🙂
Sunny, windy, no shot clock AND open roof?
(Fed’s gonna need an even bigger racquet this time, for sure, no?)
Ba-da-ba-BA-bah, I’m lovin’ it.
#BEL19VE
Y do ppl seem so excited and at the same time so anxious 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Feeling terrible!
Good luck Amy. I am not watching yet.. bring me the good news. Will check back in later.
Well good luck to all Rafans.
Very strong first hold by rafa PK!
I didn’t want to check the notify option. But that’s perfect.. I think he will be fine.. I hate it they have Novak waiting but oh well let’s get past this one first.
Well here we go!
As nervous as it will be, I would not want to miss seeing this!
I agree NNY. Would be a great match to watch. Also with knowing not many in the future. Stay strong!
PK,
It’s true that this may be the last time they play at Wimbledon.
Fed, 6-3; 7-5 ; 3-6 ; 7-6 (7)
Big second serves from Nadal so far.
Rafa not getting his first serve in while fed is serving aces. Hmmm.
Scratch that! Great serving from Rafa!☺
I clocked one second serve at 95 mph. Sometimes it’s hard to see it on the court.
Rafa has his first serve working now. In the 120 to 123 mph range.
Fed might win first set, he had serves as the advantage! If it goes to tiebreak, Roger has advantage……he is serving lights out. But cam he maintain that for a whole tree sets, or four or five?!
Rafa living dangerously!
Rafa saves break point.☺☺
Fed looking very determined and dialled in.Rafa needs to up his game.
Fed needs to, he wants to win in str8ts or at most 4. So he has no choice, so Rafa does need to up the anti, he’s behaving like he has all day! Roger does not have that luxury!
Rafa’s positioning is poor to return Roger’s serves. He needs to stand in the middle. And when he does get a look at Roger’s serve he fluffs it or makes errors, sigh! He needs to hold by any means necessary!
I think he is a bit nervous. Not playing as well as he can.
Lol, it’s funny how Rafa does get nervous, but when he opens his wings……oooh la la!!
So far so good. I am trying not to be nervous and your updates are good..😊
Come on Rafa!! Deuce!
Tiebreak!
Tie break already ? Asking for one ?
Come on Rafa ace!
Shit. Rafa lost both serve points.
He was up.in the tiebreak and serve let him down. Fed has 3 set points.
Dang
Fed takes the first set 7-3. Rafa is being outplayed. His serve and court positioning not strong enough. I don’t know what he is doing at times.
Fed has a great serving day, Rafa not so. Rafa better up his level esp his serve and returns, if not he’ll be stopped at the SF once again.
I said so!!! Rafa has to hold serve and change his return position of Roger’s serve. Hope he changes tactics in rest of sets! That tiebreak should have been his! Sigh!
Rafa let that get away from him. Fed is playing better, serving very well. Rafa is not serving as well.
What’s up.with Rafa? Doesn’t seem on top of his game. Is it nerves? He can play better than.this.
Rafa started on his serve well and after first 3 service games, it has been a struggle. No wonder he lost after a mini break up. Lets see if he changes things up.
Going to TB with Fed is suicidal; Fed is king of TBs.
Exactly, although Rafa’s record is still good, he played better tie-break against Nick, lol!
Federer is returning phenomenally well.
Rafa needs to regroup and up.his intensity. He is not playing his best game and Fed is totally dialled in
Watching now. Hope he turns it around
With Fed’s kind of serving, he can hold serves rather easily. Rafa’s serves is not so reliable especially when under pressure.
I think Rafa needs to fire himself up! He has to up.his intensity.
Feds returns are good. Nadal needs to up his game
When.does Rafa change his return position?
Rafa making uncharacteristic errors
Yes! Do it now !
Awesome
Fed is rather dialled in but Rafa looks a bit lethargic to me. He doesn’t come with that kind of intensity the way he was when facing Kyrgios.
My goodness, Rafa is misfiring his shots so casually; Fed made Rafa nervous!
Rafa playing better now!
Rafa needs to play more aggressive when he has break points.
Shit. 3 break.points gone.
At least Rafa seems to up his intensity but he needs to get rid of those short balls!! But he is having some looks at Roger’s serve!
High quality tennis but fed is being a lil better. Unless Rafa holds easy.. I dont see him putting pressure…
important hold from Federer. Fed might not give this luxury again in this set.
Rafa would still win in 4 sets.
Fed will be tried very soon with this intensity.
tired*
I have to say Fed’s game is made for grass; his serving is impeccable! Rafa OTOH, doesn’t have that kind of serve to help him win on grass.
It seems to me Fed could handle Rafa’s serve out wide on the Ad court, Rafa should serve to the body more often instead, I feel. Rafa seems a bit messed up now, can’t figure how to handle Fed’s aggression. BP again!
God this is shit to watch
Come on Rafa
One bp saved
2 bps saved come on! Ad rafa.
Huge hold!
That’s a good hold but a lucky one. He had to use this …
Rafa not playing freely yet. Needs a break.
Feds returns are being too good at the moment. Nadal has to find a way to break. Last game was one chance
Hold! Both of them have narrow escapes when facing BPs. Come on Rafa, I feel Fed is the better player so far, but in the second set his level comes down a bit but Rafa still couldn’t capitalise on the BP chances.
Rafa still holds despite playing a messy game; I hope he plays better now after surviving the BP. There’s still hope Rafa can break Fed here.
0-40 do it Rafa!
See, he is getting tired and make all the UE, that’s why he can’t beat Rafa
Now that’s crazy. Comeon Rafa hold…
Yess! Rafa breaks to love!
Now step on the gas rafa!
Ok Rafa now serves properly to hold all the way! Come on, you can do it! Just calm down and do the job!
Fed’s level.dropped dramatically
Rafa will roll all the way from here 62 63 61.
He is still shaky…nervous first serve into the net at 30-15 but nice momentum shift
Feds level dropped crazy
Yesss! Double break!☺☺
I hope he relaxes now!
Amy I think Fed is conserving energy. That last return was like he gave up.
Second set rafa! Now relax!
He still has to break early. Feds forehand returns are so good.
Agreed PK!
Ok one set all. Rafa weathers the storm. Come on Rafa, please keep up the intensity and not let this match slip away!
Fed’s intensity drops drastically in set two; I guess his intensity is high in the first set hence he couldn’t keep up that intensity in set two.
I think it was the tactical game from Fed. He knew the second set was gone so why bother to waste precious energy…Fed will be dangerous in the third…
Not a good strategy as once Rafa levels the match, Rafa will be very dangerous. Fed may not keep up physically.
I disagree. Fed wavered on one service game and the
Thar was me sorry
And that’s exactly what meant.. and the one that wind this set wins the match
Rafa’s returns not so good at BH corner, ie deuce court. He’s standing too far back and too far out wide, hence Fed’s (or any of his opponent’s) serve down the T on deuce court, Rafa couldn’t get his racket on it.
So apparently Rafa moved further back to return second serve! Seems counter intuitive!
Rafa standing so far back again to return serves!
I’ve said it several times, since Rafa is standing way back and out wide to return serve at BH corner, why not return DTL instead of going CC all the time? Going CC is running into the hands of your opponent as he expects that.
Fed suddenly lifting his level! Come on rafa!
Shit Fed breaks. Rafa has to respond to.this fast.
What a point Fed
Do it rafa!!2 bps!
One gone.
That rally was insane but fed won it. Come on rafa!
Another bp. Gone. Rafa so far back. Come on! Shit Rafa losing another insane rally.
Feel.like Rafa should have broken. Why not using his devastating backhand cross court.
Apart from feds drop in the second set. He is just better … Winning a long rally from defence..
I don’t see Nadal’s chances … Maybe if it goes to a fifth.. his best chances in the third are gone
Massive hold by Fed. What a game!
Rafa needs to change his patterns. Should have won one of those insane rallies at least.
Rafa served so poorly to lose serve! I really can’t stand the way he served, it’s getting so predictable!
Looks like Fed is going to win this set! Poor from Rafa for not upping his intensity after winning set two! Disappointing!
yeah bad set from Rafa and Fed’s been piling the pressure.
There we go! finally a penetrative inside-out forehand to save BP. He’s been playing it a bit safe. I know he can make that adjustment.
Rafa needs to loosen up a bit. I know his average groundstroke can def be more aggressive. Even a 3-4% spike can make a difference.
Rafa losing two long rallies in the last game and not being able to put away the volley at 1-2 on 30-40 have now put him in a bad position.
Come on rafa! About to get broken. Serve it out!
Shit. He is.nervous now.
2 great serves to save bps!
Massive hold by Rafa!
As I said, smart Fed now dictates the points…can’t believe Rafa was fooled by Fed thinking that Fed would drop the intensity and fade away after the second..,
Maybe for a change Rafa should be the aggressor and not the counterpuncher? He can no longer counterpunch that well on grass these days.
My goodness, he’s going to lose this set 6-1! Can’t even have a decent hold of his own service game!
That’s a fricking brave hold. Might just be a lil too late
Can Rafa even see the ball.in that corner!?
Rafa is allowing Fed to stay in rallies by not going for lines. He needs to be a bit more aggressive in terms of hitting close to the sidelines. The depth is decent but too central sometimes.
To me Rafa’s forehand is not doing enough damage. He is surely more capable of doing so.
Agreed vr! I still feel.He is nervy!
Fed holds for 5-2. Amazingly, he is outplaying Nadal from the baseline, winning most of the long rallies.
He needs to atleast serve first 4th set. Sigh!
Fed is not only the better player out there atm he is also more energetic one… and hugely aggressive one unlike Rafa…
Big hold by rafa! He has to be aggressive this game
Rafa’s grass court game still not up to the mark! He’s basically counterpunching and that won’t do when he doesn’t have a reliable serve to start with.
Not looking good for Rafa; but Djoko in the final is a different proposition for Fed. Djoko could serve well, return well, moves to the net and hits penetrating shots and rallies all day. I think if it’s Fed in the final, it’ll be Djoko winning his 16th slam! I still think Rafa will have the physical power to stay with Djoko.
Feds game plan is like he would with Novak in Cincinnati.
Unless Rafa keeps holding early ..it’s bye bye Rafa..
And you think this Rafa can beat Nole. It would be a Aus Open final repeat if they are to met again.
OK rafa! Get your head together! You can still.do it.
Rafa hit only 5 winners that set. He has to play his real.game.
He served better late 3rd set. I hope he does atleast that
Maybe he loosens up . Oh no starts with a df!
Come on rafa
Rafa looking resigned; maybe hoping to turn things around in the fourth set? Really very disappointed with the way Rafa plays this third set; letting his intensity down whilst Fed raises his.
Rafa only winning 20 points in this set vs Fed’s 32! Oh mine!
Rafa is making such hard work of this match, and unnecessarily so, sigh!
Very smart set from Fed. Hit the right spots with his serve, stayed tough in long rallies hardly making any mistakes and forcing the errors from Rafa eventually!
Rafa must serve really well now and get an early lead!
I do think we will have a 5th set.
fed can relax now and go for his shots.
Come on.Rafa! Finally a fhdtl! More please! What a pick.up.to hold!
Now play your real game!
Good one but now had to bring it in Feds service game
Rafa has to.move forward. He did that last year against nole. Needs to do.the same. He is giving up.so.much of the court
Exactly! Why is Rafa defending all the time?
Just move inside the court and not give Fed so much court to work with! What kind of game plan is that, Rafa, for playing a clay court game on grass?!!
Every service game of Rafa’s is a torture! Not going to last like this!
Alarm bells ringing for Rafa.
Nah, as hard as it is to say this, Roger will win this. Too much struggle for Rafa to hold, and he had totally abandoned his game! Roger smells blood! And certainly Rafa’s not going to beat Nole playing like this!!
Im not watching match, running errands
Shit 0-30. Come on rafa! Lucky let cord!
2 more bps. Come on rafa serve it out.
Shit. Rafa has to just go for it now.
Rafa is simply not good enough to win on grass! He can’t beat a Fed or a Djoko on grass! As long as they’re there, he’s not going to win Wimbledon!
He isn’t playing his real.game!
I agree. He just doesnt have easy service holds. Novak is not a Roger on serve but he serves smart to hold easy. Nadal struggles 2 in 3 service games. never going to win like that.
but got to admit, Fed at 37 is so fresh, such powerful and angled forehands. Just too good. If he can bring this game with Novak, he does have a chance. but its way tougher to stay at the top of this game for 5 with Novak.
16-18-20 for now I would think.
Probably, but I do think his subdued forehand today has put him in such a bad place. Fed is of course one reason but he’s lacked the ability to finish neutral balls with his forehand. 18 winners in 3 sets at wimbledon where they even give you service winners is TOO low for Rafa’s standards.
Great match from Fed though! He just needs to serve well from here and he is in the final.
Fed breaks! Finally. Now come on, Roger, and hold serve.
I don’t understand why Rafa hasn’t adjusted. He can play so !much better than this.
So nothing is changing haha. Fed continues to be very impressive but I don’t know why Rafa has not been able to respond. My frustration is actually at the forehand. Somehow, he has not been able to find his range. Overcooked forehands down the line, hesitant inside out forehands.
Has he given.up!? Please Rafa fight!
nadal is a toast now.
To me Rafa is having the wrong strategy; if counterpunching won’t work, then he should step forward and takes risk and plays with more aggression!
Fed no doubt is playing and serving well but Rafa simply gets all messed up, it’s not a contest anymore! I’m giving up on Rafa, seeing how poor his strategy and his serving is! As I said before, his serve is unreliable when under pressure!
I dont think its strategy. His serve is poor or atleast unreliable and he is not winning the longer rallies. and Feds groundstrokes just have better power and angles. You cant counter that on grass even if you are on the top of your game.
Nothing but a huge bow to the maestro🙏🏼
Its raining here and I lost my dish signal. Not watching anymore.
Sorry Amy..
I was a bit less nervous for this match and thought Rafa would actually come out stronger. but game wise got to admit, on grass atleast this time around, Its not even close. Fed is way better.
People dont just start playing badly. They are made to. Rafa did it to roger at the french. Getting the favor returned here..
Rafa could be not feeling well, we don’t know. It is strange comparing his level to previous rounds. Only first and second he looked strong.
There is still hope if he turns it around. only one break in set 4.
Fed level might also drop suddenly. We shall see, 15 30 now
Lucky,i think the real problem is in his head…He can win on grass..he already proved it against the dangerous opponents in Nicky & Querry…
But when facing the other 2(other than clay),it’s as if he suddenly lost all the belief that he can win against them…I feel like AO final all over again….sooo disappointed to c him play like this..
I agree with you mira! Some incomprehensible errors which he would normally.never make. He came out nervous and Fed came out really focussed and determined.
He can win on grass by playing the grass court game, not the clay court game!
Rafa is reverting back to his 2008 self, playing counterpunching role once he sees Fed across the net, but forget that he’s now 33, not 22!
He has his aggressive game, but doesn’t have the courage to play it against Fed! Having said that, Fed is playing too good and sticks to the correct game plan.
Fed will win in four, after seeing the match so far. Rafa is resigned, another chance down the drain. Congrats to Fed for playing so well, he’s the better grass court player and the better player today. Rafa has no answer to Fed’s serving and returning, even rallying.
PS. Fed was practising with Llodra, no wonder he’s able to handle Rafa’s lefty serves so well.
4:2 grasserer
“Rafa could be not feeling well, we don’t know. It is strange comparing his level to previous rounds. Only first and second he looked strong.”
yeah, he didn’t feel well in the AO finals as well.
I agree with you mira! Some incomprehensible errors which he would normally.never make. He came out nervous and Fed came out really focussed and determined.
It’s very disappointing. I don’t think.AO.is the same because he was just back from.injury.
could be the turning point now
OH no why Rafa could not take Roger return from there:(
Rafa just doesn’t move, goodness. Something wrong with his leg or knee?
Rafa is still fighting, let’s hope
Where was that backhand all match?
Exactly PK! So disappointing when we have seen it so often
can Fed serve it out?
I really think that the current arrangement on gras doesn’t work well for Rafa, that he can go deep but can’t reach the final time and again.
Rafa perhaps needs to play competitive matches in warm up tournaments to get match ready for Wimbledon. Also, he has to continue to serve well and plays aggressive tennis from now on until it becomes a natural part of his game. He can’t counterpunch and hopes to win on grass, now that he’s 30+.
Rafa has forgotten how to play aggressive tennis, only when back against the wall then he moves up to the net. He’s not going to win this match. Fed will serve for the match.
Incredible hold for Nadal. Fed now to serve for the match.
lol a bp for nadal.
dramma 🙂
^drama 🙂
Unbelievable last game from Nadal. He is a fighter no doubt. But needs to better his game.
Wow, Fed won and it wasn’t on an ice rink!
Yeah…much congrats to Fed & fans…Fed deserved to be in the final…
That was one of Fed’s best matches, ever. He came out and played with exactly the right attitude, the entire match. Simply brilliant. Condolences to Rafa’s fans, and all respect in the world to Nadal. He played very well but just lost to the better guy on the day. A great match and a thrill to watch.
this is why Fed was seeded 2nd, no mystery about it. to be honest, Nadal has no business in the Wimby final.
Congrats to Fed, he plays very well to win. Rafa has no answer! Rafa, go home and think what went wrong in the match! You let the third set slipped away so quickly it’s unforgivable!
Also, the serve is in such a mess! I think Rafa needs more matches on grass so that he’s not reverting to playing clay court tennis on grass! Very disappointed; Rafa is not young anymore, he’s not going to win at Wimbledon again, I’m afraid.
What a match. So happy!! Come on Roger 😄
Unbelievable game from an almost 38 to man. Congrats Roger, deserve the victory today.
A respectable loss from Rafa.
Only difference by 3 games loss, very competitive indeed.
Still 24 16.
Congrats Fedfans! Well deserved win! Beautiful game by Fed!
Nice words Natashao! Thank you.
Many congrats to fed fans . He played great and is an absolute force of nature.
# Maestro.
Some fantastic tennis played by him!!
Congrats to Benny, Kevin, Joe, Al, Fedexal, Freddy and anyone else I.have left out. I am genuinely happy for Fed and for you all.
Thanks, Amy, and others. We’re very lucky to see these two play in consecutive slams. And I thought the quality in both was extremely high, though RG has to be relative to the conditions.
Yeah, congrats to all Fed fans indeed!! For sure he was the better player! Wish him the best in the finals!!
I am sorta new here and dont know much of the Fed fans on here. But damn your guy was just great this match. At 38 I guess anyone has got to have nothing but respect. I just hope Nadal finishes close to him in GS and maybe steal a Tour Final once. Congratulations to all Fed fans too. Hopefully he brings this in the final too.
Thank you amy. That feels great.
Sorry Eugene I forgot you! So happy for you!! Fed is a genius!
Thank you natashao and amy. You guys are such humble Rafans along with the majority of the others on this site
So a third channel slam is really that difficult to achieve; take a bow, Mr Bjorn Borg! As great as Djoko is, he still couldn’t win the channel slam. For Rafa, the chance to win B2B FO/Wimbledon perhaps has passed him by; if only he wasn’t injured in 2009 and missed Wimbledon….
Lucky, I have seen you defend Rafa a lot. but I think he still needs to get more free points on serve, hold serve a lil easier and also hit corners than neutral shots. I know Fed was aggressive but still I feel Nadal hit a few more neutral than he should have in key points.
But I also think Nadal wasnt exactly serving too bad as much as Feds returns were on point. His forehand shots were consistently deep and even his groundstrokes were great whole match ( apart from the second set blip).
Its not grass. I think this match would have turned out exactly the same on a hard court ( maybe more so on a fast HC). For some reason I thought Nadals forehand didnt have the bite it normally has. A lot of the forehands were.. hmm less intense ?
PK, I agree that Fed’s return was one of the keys in this match. However, Nadal didn’t serve as well as I expected him to overall, though I thought he generally served great when he was facing break points.
The one thing I did not foresee, however, is that Federer would win most of the long rallies. His strategy surprised me in general. I thought he would come to net more and serve and volley more. But he was really the stronger player from the baseline.
I agree. it was surprising with the long rallies. But Fed was just stronger tactically. He was way aggressive. I hate it when Nadal hits neutral central shots.
But also Feds backhand was way better. I think he used it smart and hit carefully knowing Nadal wasnt being too offensive anyway. Thats where I am pissed. To all the Feds safe backhands I didnt see Nadal begin to dictate.
Honestly early 3rd set I knew Fed was the better player. and in one way I am calmer knowing Nadal lost to Fed instead of Djokovic. Nadal maybe woudl have stayed better with Djokovic but he sure wasnt going to win playing defence. Sigh..
PK, to me Rafa had all those misses because of how Fed played, putting pressure on Rafa.
I really feel that Rafa played with the wrong strategy; he’s counterpunching instead of playing a more aggressive game. You could see that the whole match, Rafa was playing clay court tennis, I mean he’s playing from the baseline all the time, and playing from so far back.
He’s unwilling to take risk, relying on his serve and his groundstrokes, rather than trying to move forward or move to the net during his own service game. Once Rafa was playing from so far back, his shots tend to be short thus allowing Fed to step in to control the points. Fed was winning so many of the Long rallies, because Rafa was basically defending from way behind the baseline! He’s not that fast anymore thus had problem covering the court from one corner to the next. Furthermore, it’s on grass so he would have lesser time to get to the ball or to defend. Fed just took advantage of that by moving Rafa around!
Fed had to serve very well and he did, still Rafa had his chances to break serves but he blown all those chances away. Rafa’s return position at the deuce court was a problem imo.
Fed played well to win, he’s the better grass court player and deserved the win today; Rafa didn’t.
Lucky, the last game was a phenomenal one from Nadal. I was about to write I did not see that coming. He did have a half chance to come back into the match. Ok Fed did play a bad smash but Nadal was on fire. My problem with him is that he needs to play that way for a good part of the match not just when he is down and almost out.
What frustrates me is that he is capable of playing stronger but he just wont. Its a small change he has to make if he wants to win while he has time. The whole fight for GS tally with these three is insane. I just want Nadal to finish strong enough.
If Rafa can’t overcome his nervy self, then I think he can only win on clay. I’m sorry to say that, but with Fed and Djoko around, and both make him nervy seeing them across the net, he’s not going to win non clay slams.
To win Wimbledon again perhaps is but a dream; just move on to try to win the AO or USO instead, in addition to the FO. His coaches Moya and Roig talked about how good Rafa’s game is at the moment, but if the player himself couldn’t play at that level when it matters, it’s still pointless talking about it.
I will say it again – no one came on here to trash Fed or take cheap shots at him after he lost to Rafa at RG. The difference between Rafa fans and Fed fans. To see this trailer trash POS on here trashing Rafa when these cowards hide when Fed loses, is just sickening.
No congratulations from me after reading g this garbage. Some people truly need professional help. This is a life?
I was out and missed the last three sets. I recorded it and will watch it when I get home to see what happened.
Fed absolutely deserved this win. But I.am.incredibly disappointed with how Rafa played. So nervy and timid and playing as if he was on clay. Only in the last few points did we see him finally.going for the corners instead of endlessly hitting back.to.fed. And his serve wasn’t good enough. Toni.was shaking his head and I don’t blame him . Rafa just wasn’t there mentally . Fed deserved the win but Rafa can play way better than he did today. Not saying he would.have won but it could have been an epic five setter rather than a choke.
Yeah amy!…I agree wholeheartedly with u…
This is the 2nd time it happened…played brilliant tennis 5,6 previous matches..and then suddenly fell apart when mattered the most….I won’t fall for it ever again next time!…Unless on clay of coz!!
Mira it’s very worrying how nervy and weak mentally he was today. He can play so much better and that is taking nothing away from how brilliant Fed was.
Tsame.
Roger showed up with confidence. Rafa did not. Sooo many opportunities to put points away or hit deeper when not pressured but he was too tight.
Also, I have no idea who decides on UEs. No way Rafa had less UEs than Fed.
Hope Nole keeps Fed at 20 slams but Fed has a great chance to win on Sunday.
Well done Fed.
I don’t think Rafa ever totally recovered from his nervy 2015 self hawks. That part of him seems to.reappear every now and then. It’s quite upsetting. I could see practically straightaway that there was a problem.
Feel the same way Amy. Credit to Federer for putting those doubts in the forefront of his mind though.
Hard to watch him not play to his full potential. Yes of course Fed controlled many points, but Rafa wasn’t aggressive enough when he was in position to be. He put a lot of balls into the net and had ample opportunities to go for more on Feds second serve but instead returned them short way too often.
Federer has rare lapses in confidence which is part of the reason he’s accomplished so much.
I can handle this loss much better than last year. That nonsense with the roof being closed while it was sunny outside was the lamest thing I have ever seen. That match turned in a few points and the winner had an easy ticket to the final with Anderson. That one stayed with me a long time.
This time it was fair and square. From what I did see watching the first set before I had to leave, Fed was playing better than Rafa. He came out ready and brought it. He was the better player on the day. I can live with that. It’s the way of it in sports.
I give Fed a lot of credit for being able to produce that kind of tennis. Well done.
I havent watched a Nadal match live in a long time. Maybe I jinxed it. But this one will be much harder to come by in the future.
I think I might just go back to not watching and just hope Nadal wins a couple more.
If Fed wins the final. it would be Novak, Nadal and Fed each in 2019. would be nice I think.
I am ok with the loss PK. Rafa lost fair and square. Last year was much worse because of the roof and we all felt that was unfair. I am very disappointed.with how Rafa played but that is a different matter. Some extraordinary errors at times.
I didn’t think before today that Fed could beat Rafa and Nole back.to back. Think he can now but Nole will be a lot tougher than today.
Rafa in many rallies today looked a step slower.
Let’s hope Fed beat Nole in the final.
If Nole takes another slam here, he is taking 4 out of last 5 slams which makes him look like the real GOAT
I mean if Djoko is the real goat then so be it! Anyway I won’t consider Rafa as a goat candidate when he just couldn’t win on grass while the other two could.
The other two goat candidates could win so much on the other surfaces but Rafa couldn’t. He just dominates on a single surface whilst the other two could dominate on multiple surfaces; so they win imo. Rafa is the goat on clay!
There is no real Goat lucky. Djoko is not clearly better than Fedal. Rafa is a goat, just like the other 2.
Incredidble match from Fed. His tennis is just amazing!
Drama in the final game and I wish 5-5 happened haha. Anyway? Fed was the better player clearly today!
Regarding Rafa, just not happy with his forehand. I know he can be and he normally is more destructive with his forehand the DTL shot was missing its mark and the most disappointing was the IO forehand! He let fed stay in rallies as he was not going for enough.
Fed had a great all-round performance. His strength was the deuce court and he worked the patterns so well.
Incredible champions these two! In no time they’ll be playing doubles in Laver Cup!
Thank you, Amy. Even as someone who considers themself a fan of Federer, I have been seriously humbled… I did not think Fed still had a win like that in him. I truly believed he would not beat Rafa again at a major. I fully admit I was wrong. I actually was not able to watch the match or even follow it, so I have no idea how it went. I will have to watch both semis before I decide if I believe that Fed has more than just a puncher’s chance of finally getting past Novak again at a major. Honestly, I don’t think watching those matches would sway me anyway. While I didn’t think Fed would be able to beat Rafa, I at least knew Fed had a chance because he has had good success against Rafa in the last few years. With Novak, however, Fed still has yet to overcome what I see as a serious mental block against Novak at the biggest matches. I am not a person who makes predictions based on hunches or anything like that. I’m not sure if there is objectively any evidence to show that Fed should be favored at all in this Final. Novak may not be quite as great right now as he was in 2014-2016, but Fed is also no longer at the level he was at in 2015. Have we seen any reason to believe that Fed is ready to suddenly overcome a serious 6-year-long mental block at almost 38 years old? I just don’t think so.
For me, this is a similar situation to how I felt before the AO 2017 final. While Fed was playing amazingly leading up to that Final, there was just no way I could bring myself to pick Fed to beat a guy at a major whom he hadn’t beaten at a major for a decade to that point. Similarly, I just don’t know if I’m willing to pick Fed to beat Novak when he hasn’t for so long. I really believed that Fed was going to win both the Wimbledon and US Open Finals in 2015 against Novak. I still believe that Fed was playing better tennis than Novak leading up to those Finals. I still believe that Fed “should” have won one of those two finals (whatever that even means). But he was so clearly mentally affected by Novak in those Finals. I’m not talking about the obvious reasons why Novak can make Fed look worse than he actually is, due to his supreme return game and defense. I’m talking about how Fed looked visibly shaken, like the moment was too big. Novak makes guys look worse, but not THAT much worse. In the US Open Final, Fed had that match on his racquet for almost the entire match. I think he had over TWENTY break points, and barely converted any of them. I don’t know how else to explain how he could play so incredibly well during 95% of the points, but then just look like a different guy in the relatively few super important points. The Novak mental block is real.
I have been burned too many times now by Fed against Novak since 2012, to the point where I’m just not willing to touch that hot stove again until I see that he can actually get it done. I felt that way against Rafa in 2017. And I feel that now against Novak. 🤷♂️
Kevin, I’m glad you posted this, because you were the only person I was thinking of calling out. I think if you honestly watch today’s match with eyes wide open there will be no doubt in your mind that Federer is still capable of playing like he was in 2015. If anything his baseline game today was better, and possibly his return game, though I don’t think he served quite as well. But today’s match should leave you in no doubt that Federer is far from past it.
Regarding the mental block, I honestly don’t think it exists anymore 2017 got rid of it, even if not against Djokovic. Federer came in to today’s match with a look of utter calm, and he kept it the entire match, including when he was getting served a bread-stick in the 2nd set. If he brings that attitude to the final, I am confident he will win it.
Well said Joe. There was much better attitude. if he brings that in the Final he has a definitive chance
I do think Fed can win Kevin. What was impressive.is that when he was in trouble he literally shook himself and forced himself to raise his game. And i think.Now that the string of losses to.Fed was in rafa’s head. So yes maybe Fed is stifled like Rafa but his capacity to suddenly lift.himself showed enormous mental strength. Surely that gives him a helluva lot of confidence.
I agree Amy, with the Fed can win part. But I dont think Fed is necessarily in Nadals head at the moment. Atleast not yet. Having won the French, Nadal was in a fair advantage and should have used it but unfortunately he didnt. While a lot of people say Nadal was in Feds head, it was also about the matchup with Nadal battering his backhand (which didnt quite happen today. )
I agree there is a good mental edge between these players from time to time but I think with Nadal, he just wont change his pattern when it matters most and unless he does, he isnt beating these two when it matters. Now that Fed has evened the match up. Nadal needs to do some homework not just with Novak but also with Fed. If he keeps hoping their level needs to drop much like Fed in the second set today, thats not going to work. He needs to come out stronger, with more belief and take more risks. Anyway thats that.
He can’t do.that if he is too nervous PK! That is the real.problem for me. Rafa has never completely recovered from.the nervous self who came into being in 2015. The old Rafa would at least have hit the winners he needed off his forehand! Whenever nervy Rafa reappears he doesn’t go for the corners! Also.what happened to his brilliant net game of last year?! It’s predominantly mental with Rafa.
Kevin, Prior to the match, I felt the same thing as to Fed not being at the same level he was in 2015 or even 2017. that he is way older now. but after this match I dont think thats true. He can bring some serious genius stuff on a tennis court. he’s still got the game and while he has aged, his game certainly doesnt look like it has.
With Novak, yes maybe a mental block. His post match interview didnt seem too confident either. he said he would try to push Novak to the brink and “hopefully” beat him. Novak has got the mental edge and he is ruthless and cold against these two for a long time ( even off the court because he wants to maintain that edge). But I believe if Fed can bring this game to the final and if things go his way, its not entirely impossible he get to his 21st. And Novak isnt being unbeatable either and certainy not in his 2011 form.
Good luck and as a Nadal fan, I would root for Fed than Novak.
PK, I don’t think it’s just a mental block that Fed has against Djoko.
Djoko could play well on grass, with his flatter shots, better court position thus hitting his shots with depth, making them more difficult to defend against. He also serves well and his ROS could be unbelievable. He moves well and defends well too, just incredible defence, unlike Rafa who camps so far behind the baseline.
Can Fed play this well in two consecutive matches? In 2015, he was amazing in the SF against Murray, but came up short against Djoko in the final. Djoko is not Rafa, whatever serves Rafa couldn’t return, Djoko maybe could!
Lucky, Agreed. Exactly what I was about to say. thats why I said just “maybe”. I dont see it as entirely a mental block.( I just read Nadal stating that he didnt feel his backhand like he did in his previous matches. Now thats not mental)
but coming back to Fed vs Djok yes Djok can return better.But Fed now has a clear game plan. He is ultra aggressive, something I have seen him use in Cincinnati time and again with Djokovic. if he is as consistent with his groundstrokes like he was today, and one set goes his way, I do see Djokovic getting frustrated and breaking a few racquets. Two consecutive matches, maybe not but I think Fed this year at Wimbledon has already surprised me. Honestly I did feel Rafa would take him out infact in 4.
PK, as I mentioned, Rafa played the wrong strategy, I’d said enough so not going to say it again.
Fed vs Djoko, you mentioned about Cincy, but Djoko won their latest encounter there. They’ve played each other several times, in fact more than Fed vs Rafa, so don’t you think Djoko too has a clear game plan to deal with Fed?
I’m sure Djoko and his team were watching this Fedal match, you think they won’t learn something from it?
Rafa camped so far behind the baseline hence his shots landed short in Fed’s service box, allowing Fed to step in to take the shot early, no wonder Rafa was losing the rallies because he had so much court to cover from corner to corner behind the baseline.
Djoko plays from close to the baseline and his shots have more penetration, so it’s not so easy to take the ball early against Djoko. Once Djoko could pin Fed to the baseline, he could then win the baseline rallying war.
Djoko also took the initiative to move to the net whenever he found it the right time to do so, during all his matches here, so if he could pin Fed back to the baseline, he may do the same too.
I have to say, Djoko always ‘deceive’ us by playing not too impressive tennis before the final, but on final day, he just could turn up and play lights out tennis; I’ll never underestimate Djoko in a final.
Lucky, I am not sure where You seem to think I am disagreeing with you :). I agree every word you said in the above post. It mirrors my thoughts actually with the differences in Nadal and Djoko
Rafa played with the wrong strategy yes. But I constantly rue the fact that its more a game style than strategy. Nadal just cannot be returning from far behind the baseline every match and suddenly change it up while facing Fed and Djoko. If I remember right, in 2013 he was returning from closer to the baseline and it worked perfectly worked for a clean sweep in the US HC. Along with the 135 mph in 2010 that would make him unbeatable in my opinion. I have no idea why someone wouldnt retain tactics that work and go back to a game style that needed that change in the first place.
As to Djoko Fed, all I am saying is Fed surprised me with how consistently his game was on and how he stayed mentally in this match. if he brings in that consistency along with that sorta mental freshness, I think he has a decent 50-50 chance. Dont you ? Whether that actually happens, I dont know. All i am saying was I now give him a slight better chance than when I thought he wouldnt beat Nadal this year.
Now Part 2 and I wanted to bring this up on here.
I did not watch the first set. From what I heard from Amy, Nadal stayed with Fed, got into a lead in the TB and lost two service points ( we all know how reliable his serve was in the match). But I stick to what I was saying. Lets face it. Federer was the better player in this match, His serving, his forehand, his backhand and his mental state held throughout the match.
I didnt feel Nadal was actually playing better even after he won the second set. I clearly saw Fed was looking forward to the 3rd set knowing he can hold serve easy and break Nadal which he did. There was very less likelihood that the pattern was to change the rest of the match. Also Fed was beating Nadal in the longer rallies even as Nadal was playing better in some.
What I feel is a clear indication of the match and result is that even in a crazy level of play in the last game, Fed still hung tough and actually won the game /match. I think thats reflective of what i feel. Even if Nadal played a couple notches better, it would have still been a close match and Fed would have still won. I was surprised how Nadal kept serving hard to Feds forehand on the deuce court while historically being too predictable with a T serve. He could have changed it up a little but I was surprised how Fed was consistently pounding his forehead return hard and deep each time and every time. His level of play as more consistent than the not to often Nadal’s genius play in this match.
Now what can Nadal do better. In my opinion, return better from closer to the baseline. hit deep, less neutral and make Fed run, hit those crazy backhand CCs like he did in the last game and use his DTLFH and ofcourse serve better. now thats a lot of changes and easier said than done. Can he do it and change it tactically for the rest of the season.Yes but will he ? thats a big question mark. I have been waiting for that for years now. I have no idea why he wont bring his 2010/2013 HC game back. He would crush Djokovic if he plays like that but he just wont.
Anyway this is a tough one. I couldnt sleep well at all. No matter how much I tell myself to accept Fed played better, this is a tough one to digest. but its done and over. Anything we talk about game style, strategy or mental toughness is just conversation at this point. lets move on.
I will be a lil happier if Fed can somehow win the final.it would suck if he plays bad having beat Nadal with his A game.
This is interesting, PK, and I agree with a lot of it. However, I’m not sure how much differently Nadal could have played. Sure, he could have played better, particularly gotten in a higher pct. of 1st serves. But he actually served quite well when he was facing BPs and he obviously has made a committment to hit better but fewer 1st serves.
The obvious change he could have made is on the return, by stepping closer to the baseline. But I’m not sure that Rafa can feel comfortable standing that close against a server like Fed. He likes to take a fairly big cut on the return to generate a lot of topspin (which he did on a lot of returns, placing them deep). Fed can stand closer because of his timing, and even then it often doesn’t work out. In fact, I would say that his returns today were the best they’ve been all tournament. before this match a lot of people were saying it had become a real weakness. And even today he shanked a fair number.
Anyway, it’s something Rafa has to feel comfortable doing, and I’m not sure he can. And, apart from today, you can hardly fault him on his ROS, which has arguably been the best in tennis this year.
Other than that, I thought Nadal tried to play aggressively. I didn’t think he was passive; I just think Fed was more successful at it today. Rafa was certainly going for his BH, hitting quite a few scorching winners and sending several more long. In general, he could try to hit more winners. But the conventional wisdom of literally everyone (including me) before today’s match was that he would win if he could be patient and lure Fed into long rallies. That didn’t happen, but I’m not sure how anyone could have expected it to happen and it’s not the kind of thing that you can make a quick or easy adjustment to.
Luckystar, I know wimbledon is too close to french open but rafa has won the channel slam twice and when he did he played a warm up grass tournament and even won one before wimbledon if I’m correct. That gave him opportunity to perfect his skills and find out what’s working and what’s not. So it’s a winning formula and he may have faced federer and lost before wimbledon and then will learn quickly and try something different in the main grand slam. This is what happened in rome final, his strategy worked against djokovic and so he implemented it in roland garros especially in the semis and finals.
As for his bad strategy this semifinal, I believe nadal can play as good as his 2010 and 2013 US open self and even better. If federer and djokovic can do it, so can he. Even though he is a different player from them, nothing is impossible.
He can get back his 2010 US open serve and apply it without injurying his shoulder. It is doable. Plus vary his return position and be the tactical genius he usually is by stepping into the court and cutting the points short and being very aggressive since long rallies and counterpunching were not working. He’s more than capable of doing that regardless of his age, since he was able to make his backhand into a lethal weapon now, he can do the rest to. One thing with rafa is that he needs time to change up and alter his game and his coach better give him that for the hard court seanson especially the US open. In the US open 2017 final that he won, he even S&V several times in it and that worked since anderson passing shots were atrocious. I’m cutting nadal some slack because he just won the french, so winning wimbledon was never going to be easy, if it was federer and djokovic would have been the GOATS of the channel slam.
Anybody that thinks that djokovic will not come prepared to counter everything that federer throws at him in a GRAND SLAM final is living in a fools paradise. I’ve seen this script too many times and the ending is ALWAYS the same with djokovic. He’s always a different beast in the final except if its wawrinka on the other side and it’s on a hard court against wawrinka. Wawrinka is a bad match up for djokovic.
Djokovic will beat federer on sunday. Federer’s serve, bigger racquet and improved backhand, better groundstrokes will be non-threatening to djokovic. He knows fed’s game, has seen it before and can counter it EASILY. His backhand is Stronger than federer’s and more dangerous, his forehand has even improved to rival anyone’s including federer. He has a mental advantage over federer, deny or overlook that at your peril. His return is the greatest in tennis history hence federer’s great serve is nothing to him. He will make it average or even less.
Nadal may be fed’s greatest rival but recently djoko has had his number more than rafa and that is not going to change on sunday. Federer will be “lucky’ to win a set as djoko may just win it in three sets. I want federer to win but that is not going to happen at all.
PK,
Since Rafa’s AO 2014 final loss, he wasn’t able to play the way he did at US HCs of 2013 anymore. I think we can forget about that Rafa of 2010/2013 USO appearing again.
I do feel it’s mental more than anything else; I thought after beating Fed at the FO, Rafa would be more or less having some confidence when facing Fed at Wimbledon, especially after his brilliant run to the SF. It turned out to be another disappointment, not only for his fans but for him too, as he realised it’s an opportunity missed and his chances of winning another Wimbledon title diminishing yet again with another year gone by, knowing that he’s no longer young at 34 next year.
He actually created a mess out of it, even though Fed’s brilliant play had a big part to do with it. Why he lost confidence in his own BH was a mystery to me. Anyway, going forward, I think he should go improve his serve, his offensive game and his ROS. He hardly varied his return positions despite not making any inroad into Fed’s service games in set three and four. It reminded me of that Müller match two years ago; not making adjustment to his return positions and ended up losing in the end.
He really has to learn to play a grass court game on grass and a HC game on HC. He’s playing a clay court game on grass in this SF! His game is very much different from both Fed’s and Djoko’s. Djoko and Fed play a game that suits all surfaces, even on the clay surfaces where they could beat most players except a few.
I do hope he has success in his newly acquired offensive game, that may help him to win on grass and HCs; it’s just that he hasn’t mastered that yet, hence he’s hesitant once seeing his great rivals across the net on non clay surfaces. He was very aggressive against Djoko in the Rome final and won that match; the test is on non clay surfaces vs those two guys.
I for one, thought Rafa would play his aggressive game like he did in his previous few rounds. I mean, since his one two punch tennis together with his serve were working well, why revert back to rallying on grass?
Rafa was pretty much defending, and defending from way behind the baseline, not going to work on grass. I do feel he’s influenced by Toni, whom said after Rafa’s Shanghai loss to Fed in 2017, that Rafa should extend the point instead of playing to Fed’s tempo. It didn’t work here on grass as it’s harder to defend because of the low bouncing surfaces.
Rallying should be short ones and done close to the baseline; Rafa had to run so much to cover so much ground behind the baseline when he was moved by Fed from corner to corner. His DTL shots were absent hence he couldn’t change directions and perhaps change the dynamics of the rally exchanges.
A heartfelt congratulation to all Fedfans! May your guy do well in the final! It won’t be easy for sure. But anything can happen☺
And a remarkable novum: The Tignor-curse turned out to be a non-issue. He got both predictions right😀
Again: congrats! I’m at a string conference atm and can’t really follow the discussions. But it has nothing whatsoever to do with racket technology 😏
So, this is my take. Fed or sure has improved his BH, he just opens up the court if Rafa’s CC FH is short. Also Rafa’s BH CC to Fed’s FH CC is a rally whhere Fed just starts cutting the angles and ultimately Rafa’s BH CC falters , mostly he tries to hit too hard and goes long. These kind of exchanges are where Djoker and Fed bombard Rafa’s BH and they win on HC and grass.
I think overall Rafa has improved serve a lot but Fed and Djoker have improved their return games a lot, they go very deep and fast at Rafa’s BH fast and just get a head start in rally. Rafa has lost a bit of speed and he also can’t run a lot. Rafa needs to improve his ROS , also add a bit more bit. I dont think Rafa forced Fed too much on his second serve . Fed won 62% second serve points and Rafa less than 50%. There was the match lost.
The problem with Rafa is that he’s still playing a clay court game on grass. His shots lacked depth and penetration thus Fed could just easily feast on them. If it’s on clay, I doubt Fed could get back all those balls.
I suspect Rafa was remembering what Toni said, when he lost to Fed at Shanghai, that Rafa should extend the points and not played the points quickly to Fed’s pace. Perhaps Rafa was thinking about that hence he ended up going into Long rallies with Fed on grass, instead of playing the one two punch tennis that he played so well this tournament.
Against the others, he’s the aggressor; against Fed, he reverted to a counterpuncher; not going to work on grass when he’s 33 now; not quick enough to counterpunch on grass effectively.
Rafa has beaten Fed 1 out of 4 on grass that too in a tight five setter. So, lets not say that Fed cant beat Rafa on non clay surfaces. At 37 Fed is able to get the better of Rafa on grass. Surely shows Fed is the better player on grass .
If this Rafa plays Djoker on grass, it will be a 3 set demolition handed to Rafa . Djoker will just pummel that BH.
So.how does Rafa pick.himself up and recover for the hard court season? Because a loss of that kind where he was frozen at times mentally.is going to.be very hard to recover from.
He absolutely.must fix the problem with serve. If you are under pressure on serve constantly it affects your whole game.
Top 3 are very strong. They dont get down mentally. Terrific season for top 3 so far. Rafa’s serve is good, he needs to fix his BH and ROS.
Rafa’s bh has been brilliant in Rome and Rg and earlier this tourney. Yet he hardly went for winners with it going cross court when He had plenty of chances. He was just so timid!
His BH needs more time which he gets on clay.
Yes timid is the word. When you’re afraid to lose, you then end up losing! So, why be so timid? In fact I do feel for a long time now, that Rafa is timid. When he faces someone who has beaten him before, he tends to get nervous and then plays timid tennis.
The Rafa who’s so brave and played like there’s nothing to lose (the one back in the days during mid to late 2000s) has long gone. After experiencing all the injuries and sufferings, the current timid Rafa has emerged. He may have the mental fortitude to make his injury comebacks, but when out there on the court, he’ll revert back to his defensive self once he sees his nemesis or an old time rival across the net.
He needs help, psychological help.
Totally agree lucky! The old Rafa would at least have hurt Fed with his forehand going for the corners and making him think twice. Rafa empowered Fed who.could intuit that he wasn’t playing with his old warrior self and mentality! That partly allowed him to.play with such freedom.
If this was a close match, I would see that problem. the difference in levels were glaring. If you lose a close match like he did in the last semi thats tough but I see Nadal coming out of this easier. Like I said earlier, Rafa seemed to have some fear with his backhand today ( weird after he hit some crazy ones end of match).
I think Nadal knows exactly Fed was just way beter today. Its not about him recovering from this match mentally. Its about him changing his patterns.We all know his DTLFH and now with his improved CCBH he must be fearsome. He didnt bring either into this match. Simple as that.
So are you upset PK? How do you see the hard court season for Rafa? I wish they would get a serve coach!!
I am ok Amy. Thanks. Hope you are too. I am a lil frustrated Nadal has the game and he just wont bring it. This is not a match he got unlucky like he did last year with Novak. So that sorta calms be down. Also we have got to accept Fed at this age playing so brilliantly. Its great to see these guys play the way they do at this age. Fed is still playing his best way past expiry date 🙂
Rafa is more than capable of having a good HC season. I think he takes a break like usual, regroups and approaches the rest of the season much like he does each year. I dont know if I agree with Lucky completely he needs psychological help. I dont see it that worse. Its not entirely nerves. To me, its just purely bad choices. He is way older and well knows he has got to be aggressive. There were parts he tried to play with intensity but his shots lacked the bite.
To your question .Is he capable of winning the US. Aboslutely ( I was dreaming maybe he wins the US and goes for a Rafa slam at the Aus 🙂 ). but it clearly depends on how much willing is he step out of his regular patterns, more so in the matches against Fed or Novak. Can happen. Will it? Only time would tell….
Oh and I also think Rafa is much like Fed too. His game hasnt necessarily aged. He is still playing beautiful tennis and I see him around playing his best for a couple more years. So lets hope he has a good HC season. How can we not wish he wins the US 🙂
Thanks PK. I am getting very tired now so not up to writing much. Just wanted to say how very very nice it has been talking with you during wimby and RG and how glad I am you joined Tenngrand. I look forward to sharing Rafa’s USO win with you!!☺☺
Same here Amy. Thanks to you and everyone else too on here. I should have let you be my lucky mascot tonite and not watch the match but didnt eant to miss yhis matchup.
I shud have slept two hours ago. Am not able to 😊. Nite all
Rafa said in his presser, that Fed returned well but he himself didn’t. His own BH not hitting well hence couldn’t open up the court. He also said he played a bit better late in the fourth set but that’s too late to turn things around.
I agreed, that he decided to move inside the court only when he’s about to lose. I say, he’s timid, not gutsy enough to take risk when things were not working for him; he still stick to the same game plan until he’s about to lose, then he had no choice but to turn aggressive. I’ve seen this same old story so many times, can’t help but come to this conclusion, that Rafa is in fact timid.
Maybe he lacks confidence facing either Fed or Djoko on non clay surfaces; against others, when he’s confident enough, he could change his game plan mid match when things weren’t working for him. He didn’t seem able to do that against Fed here, until back against the wall. I always asked the same question – since he could play that way, why waited till back against the wall, when it’s too late to turn things around? Why not played that way earlier on?
PK, why Rafa didn’t bring them, that’s the question! It’s a slam SF, not any other match, so why he’s not bringing his weapons to the match??
It wasn’t some technical issues, more tactical and psychological issues imo, something he and his team have to address and resolve, if not we may have to face such disappointment again and again.
Rafans-
I just You to know that I have not even slightly waivered from my declaration from earlier in the season that I believe Rafa will win Wimbledon again. I’ve seen a Rafa at Wimbledon the last two years who is prepared to win Wimbledon again. It just needs to all come together. And it will. And I will be on here celebrating with you when he does! ❤️
Thanks Kevin but I fear that last year was the year that Rafa should.have won. That was why we were all so upset about the roof. He seems to have gone backwards again!
Thanks for being such a great contributor to this site ☺though. For your sake I.hope Fed wins. See above for my reasoning as to why he can!
The reason I am upset about this loss is I fear that Rafa ‘s mental.problems of old keep reappearing. I don’t think.his problem is technical just that he suddenly can’t execute under pressure.
Kevin, I doubt Rafa is going to win Wimbledon again. I feel he has missed the boat, this and last year. He’ll be 34 next year, who knows how his knees are going to cope?
He’s playing well this year, and imo, had he played more aggressively instead of playing clay court baseline tennis, perhaps he could still win this match. He had his chances with some BPs; and he could serve a bit better the way he did the whole tournament; he just didn’t serve well enough; couldn’t serve that many aces when he could serve 11 aces in some matches. He had too much respect for Fed’s ROS, not serving with enough pace imo and so the serve kept coming back with interest.
He feared both Fed and Djoko when playing on non clay surfaces, for he didn’t have enough confidence in his own game, that it could match up with theirs.
It’s a pity, for I do feel that his aggressive game is good enough to deal with both Fed and Djoko. It’s just too bad that having played his aggressive game so well all tournament to arrive at the SF, once he saw Fed across the net, he reverted back to his defensive self and played counterpunching baseline tennis.
Lucky,listen to his press conference talk. The reasons that acoording to you led to Rafa being defeated were partially caused by Fed’s game. Rafa himself says it clearly.
I think when our favourite player loses a match, too easy we assume he just played badly. But that’s partly because of their opponent. They have their chemistry on the court. The truth is Rafa had Nick as a strong opponent until the SF. The other one were just scary on paper. They didn’t quite played to our expectations. My idea is that Rafa needs more practice on grass against quaility opponents before dreaming big. And here opens another old subject about ATP scheduling etc
I think last year Rafa deserved to win the title more than Djoko. And that kind of loss in the SF is much more painful than today’s. He is fine. I hope he destroys Djoko on HC this year.
Eugene, I’d already listened to that and had posted something about it in one of my posts above.
I repeat that here, Rafa said Fed returned better than him, and he wasn’t hitting his BH well today so unable to open up the court. He only played a bit better when back against the wall, about to lose the match, and he said that was too late.
I also mentioned in one of my earlier posts, that perhaps Rafa should play a warm up event on grass, because that would give him match play, actual competition. He skipping warm up events might allow him to reach the SF in these two years, but both times he missed the final leap into the final, maybe by competing more on grass, it would help him hone his skills on grass and thus gives him the extra confidence to bring his best where it matters?
Kevin,
I love your optimism! Thank you! I am watching my recording of the match now. I only saw the first set and then I had to go out. It’s interesting how Fed lost the plot in the second set. Now I am watching the third set. So I can see for myself what happened.
But some here have forgotten that Rafa just won his 12th title at RG. Something that has never been done in this sport. As I said yesterday, a few months ago things were looking pretty bleak for Rafa. We know that Rafa went to a very dark place after the knee injury. He did not look good when the clay season started. So maybe a little perspective is in order.
Let’s not deceive ourselves, Djokovic will destroy federer in the final as usual. Such a pity as I would have loved for federer or nadal to win wimbledon but lets not kid ourselves, this is 2015 and 2016 wimbledon final all over again. Federer has a mental block against djokovic and when was the last time Djokovic lost a grand slam final. I’ll wait.
I disagree with some people here about nadal. Nadal is capable of winning non-clay slams, he won US open in 2017 so lets not get carried away with sadness. He has beaten djokovic and federer in non-clay slams before, US open-djokovic (2013) and australian open federer (2014). He is not timid. Cut the guy some slack, he just won the french open 3 weeks ago. Last year he should have won that wimbledon semifinal but for the roof and his serve.
All he needs to do is fix his serve or upgrade it. Would love for federer to win on sunday but djokovic is just too dangerous in a final. Not holding my breath.
I hope serena brings it tomorrow but I’m afraid Halep will beat her. But anything can happen in the wta.
Happy,
Bravo for a great post! Thanks so much! I also mentioned Rafa winning RG and setting a historic record. I think we should cut Rafa some slack. I talked about how devastating it was to see last year’s loss in the semifinals at Wimbledon. That one really hurt. So close.
Watching the third set now, Fed made the shots when he needed them and Rafa was making some uncharacteristic errors.
Thanks for putting it all in perspective!
Joe, PK, and others:
I said that I think Fed can do it. People seem to think that I just don’t think Fed can beat Novak. That’s just factually incorrect- Fed has beaten post-2010 Novak at Wimbledon before! I’m just simply not willing to count on it when I was burned so badly in 2015. Joe, I understand your argument about thinking that Fed is over the metal block. But we really can’t know that because they haven’t played at a major since 2016. They have, however, played a couple times at non-majors, where Fed lost both times. That only makes me less convinced he’s over it! Again, my feelings have absolutely nothing to do with tennis. It is strictly about the fact that Fed has so blatantly been cowed by Novak in nearly every big match they have played since Fed beat him en route to the Wimbledon title in 2012. Maybe the one exception could be the 2015 Cincinnati Final. Novak was still going for the “Golden Masters” at that time, so there was at least some sort of stakes rising on that match. But the majors are a different animal. I guess I just don’t see how Fed playing good tennis right now addresses the reasons Novak has had his number. 🤷♂️ Fed was playing maybe the best tennis I’ve EVER seen him play at Wimbledon and US Open in 2015, but it meant absolutely nothing because of who was standing in the other side of the net. We have seen how Novak has played at the major in the last year. The one loss he had, at RG to Thiem, was so affected by the weather that I don’t really factor that loss into what I expect from him on Sunday.
I’ll say for the millionth time- I believe that Roger Federer can beat Novak Djokovic in the 2019 Wimbledon Final. If Fed wins, I won’t be shocked, because I KNOW he can win! I shouldn’t have to repeat this again haha. I am just simply not picking him to win, and you cannot convince me that that is somehow a bad pick. For some reason it always feels like some people can not grasp the concept of believing someone can win a match, while picking the other player as the favorite. Am I just wrong here? Is this not a logical thing? Also, people sometimes seem to think that when I pick one player as the favorite, that that somehow means that I think picking the other player is a bad pick… People who are picking Fed to win on Sunday- your pick is totally acceptable! He can definitely win! I just happen to be giving Novak the edge for various reasons. Maybe I take history into account more than most people? In this case, I just believe that history swings so heavily to Novak’s favor, whether it’s head-to-Head related or age-related or whatever, that it outweighs the reasons why Fed can win the match.
I also am not ashamed to admit that I really, really, really want Fed to win on Sunday! I just refuse to let the fact that I love Fed, and do NOT love Novak, get in the way of my objectivity. Believe me- I really would love to give Fed the edge in this one. I really would. But when I weigh all the factors, I just see Novak as the slight favorite. Benny! Help me out here haha! I’m not crazy for thinking this way, right??
Kevin, I have doubts that Fed could produce something like today, in consecutive matches. Djoko is no Rafa on grass, he has a better game on grass.
He’s playing from close to the baseline, hitting with depth from both wings and could change directions so well. He returns so well so he will get into Fed’s service games more than Rafa could do. He also serves well when he needs to, unlike Rafa who couldn’t when under pressure.
It’s not impossible that Fed would beat Djoko, but it’s a tough ask.
Good points Happy.
Djoko can handle Fed’s serves and long rallies; so effectively what he won against Rafa today would not work against Djoko. I actually think that these days, Djoko is a bad match up for Fed, on any surface, maybe except on very quick courts.
Agree with you, Kevin. Would prefer to see Fed win the final, but….I have Doubts. Otoh, since I like Fed but don’t love him…I really don’t feel strongly about the final. Sad that Rafa lost, of course, but I wasn’t all that enthusiastic about him going up against the Djoker either. I worry about Rafa’s health. Not my “job” as a fan but there it is. Sigh.
If rafa was capable of winning US open in 2017, he’s capable of winning wimbledon and any other slam, period.
Federer is not beating djokovic on sunday, I’m sorry. I dont see that happening at all because there’s nothing about federer’s game that i can see that will trouble djokovic. If federer plays the way he played today against djokovic, he’ll lose. Long rallies is djokovic’s bread and butter and djokovic is no nadal and federer’s serve is inconsequential to djokovic bc djokovic’s return is unbelievable so that neutralises federer’s serve and the long rallies djokovic will win comprehensively.
The next gen is a disgrace am sorry to say. I’m very proud of the big three and may they play for more years bc their tennis when they are on is scintillating.
Happy, Wimbledon is too close to the FO, making the transition from clay to grass very challenging. Rafa normally played the final Sunday at the FO, leaving him not much time to train and get used to playing on grass.
The USO is about one and a half months away from Wimbledon so players have time to adjust after playing a few Masters or smaller events.
Very tired now so going to bed! A big thanks to all tenngranders for being such great company. Love you all! See you tomorrow for more in depth analysis!
Vamos Rafa Fed and Nole # 3 goats!
NNY, well said. Couldn’t agree more. A little perspective is truly needed here.
Nadal doesnt need to prove anything to anybody on any surface. Two US opens and Two wimbledons and 1 australian open is nothing to sniff at. That is a monumental achievement and indicative of an all court genius that can win on any surface at any time including this year.
I am very disappointed he lost but such is life. Unfortunately the sunday final is going to be a damp squid as federer is going to be as abysmal as nadal was today on sunday regardless of his serve and backhand. djokovic is on another level sorry. Infact nadal of last year wimbledon would have had a better chance on sunday than federer. I like federer and wish for him to win on sunday but I dont see that happening. The most he can do is win a set if djokovic goes walkabout but that’s it I’m afraid. Djoko in 4 on sunday.
Happy,
It’s 3 USO’s! Just to be clear. To go along with 2 Wimbledon’s and one AO. Rafa is an all surface player!
Also Rafa has earned his place among the greatest to play this sport. It is NOT just Novak and Fed! Neither of them has won 12 titles at one slam. I do not believe in the GOAT argument. I believe that there is a singular list of the greatest players ever to play in this sport. I have my own personal list – Rod Laver, Bjorn Borg, Pete Sampras, Federer, Rafa and Novak. Rafa has nothing left to prove!
Now that I have seen the whole match, Ivan say that Rafa seemed out of sorts at times, serving not good enough, forehand DTL not firing. I think JMac summed it up very well. He said that he thought Rafa was tentative, that he wasn’t moving up to hit volleys and being aggressive. Then he said – Rafa let Fed take the play away from him. Bingo! That resonated with me. I do think Fed’s game and execution was the reason why Rafa did was not able to play his game. That is the goal – to impose your game on the opponent andcfdke him out of his comfort zone. It was only in the last few games of the fourth set that Rafa seemed to get fired up and started to play like himself. But by then it was too little, too late. I did wonder what night have been had Rafa made that shot at 5-4 with Fed serving firctge mstch when he had break point. He missed it and bent over and put his face in his hands. What if he had gotten it to 5-5? We will never know.
Also, Fed did have his own blip in that second set. This was not like this year’s AO where Rafa was completely destroyed by Novak. But Fed did regroup well in the third set.
The bottom line is that Rafa did not take a step back! Let’s remember that he played Kyrgios in the second round. What if he lost that match? But he won playing some brilliant tennis! He got to the semis and I have enjoyed every minute of it. I am very disappointed that he lost. But I can handle this one. I always think of how Borg walked away from tennis at the age of 26. Now that is something to be sad about! Rafa has stayed in the game through too many injuries. He is still playing! Thank God!
Rafa does NOT need a psychologist. He lost to a great champion on his best surface. He was outplayed. He does not need to regroup. This is not a tragedy!
Rafa will move on and have more great victories. But let’s remember that he won his 12th RG! If he doesn’t win the channel slam again, so be it. He’s done it twice. Both did it three times in consecutive years. Each tennis great has his own unique achievements. I choose to celebrate what Rafa has done s d how he has been gutsy enough to keep playing through all the trials and tribulations. He has give me some great memories this week. I would have loved to see him in another Wimbledon final. But I have to be grateful for the wins he had. It was a wonderful rude!
Vamos Rafa always and forever!
So many typos in my previous post! Autocorrect garbled some of what I said. Borg won the channel slam three years in a row, not Both!
A wonderful RIDE!
First of all – massive congrats to federer and his fans. I am eating crow as i type this because i did not think Fed will win this, let alone so handily. I thought the AO 2017 was a fluke when Rafa himself was returning from injury. But clearly that is not the case. It is incredible that Roger has made the rivalry closer towards the end of his career. If Roger pulls the final off, it has to be the GSOAT, the greatest slam of all time considering his age and that he beat two other goats.
As far as Rafa is concerned, he has won one slam and stopped by goats in the other two. He looked the best he has looked in wimby in years. He just came up against an opponent in his den much like at the australian open this year. He has done the same to his fellow goats at Paris.
Vamos Rafa- you have done us proud🤙🏻
Nadal needs to play warm up tournaments before wimbledon. The formula of skipping everthing till wimbledon doesnt work anymore, it never worked for nadal. Federer won a grass warm up and that did wonders for him today and he was ready for strong competition on grass. djokovic is just different. He can play well regardless of warm up tournaments as he has won wimbledon without any warm up. Rafa has never so his coach should change that. It did wonders for nadal in the french bc all those warm up clay tournaments especially rome prepared him for the battle in the french open which he passed comprehensively. He was ready for thiem, djokovic, federer, and everybody else.
Warm ups are the way forward for him. It has always worked for him in the past so time to implement it again.
I want to point something else out in regards to Novak. Did y’all see how much Novak fed off of the crowd overwhelmingly going against him today? When he got broken, he was lifting his arms to the crowd, like “C’mon! Keep cheering against me! I love it!” And boy did it fuel him… And if it was like that today, what’s it gonna be like on Sunday? A whole other level. He still has a serious chip on his shoulder for not being as loved as Fedal. And it is a fact that he has ALWAYS convincingly beaten Federer when that crowd is against him that much. I think it’s quite possible that he makes a concerted effort to put a stamp on his ownership over Fed and Rafa at the majors over the last 5 to 6 years. If he wins on Sunday, he will have not lost to Fed, Rafa, or Murray even once at a slam since 2014. Yes, he had his slump. But he surely believes that was nothing but an injury-related fluke, and that he has been the best player of the last half-decade. I just feel like we have seen this movie over and over and over and over again. And for 5 years now, if Novak was fully healthy and wasn’t facing Stan Wawrinka, he just hasn’t really lost at the majors. And that scares me. This guy has won 3 of the last 5 Wimbledon titles. Part of the reason that Fed CAN win is that he has also won Wimbledon recently. But I just don’t see how anyone can be really confident that Fed can win THIS match. I understand if you have a hunch, or you just love him so much that you can’t pick against him, but we have seen this scenario too many times for me to ignore what the outcome has been for so long now.
I want nothing more than for Fed to get it done. He’s managed to beat Rafa at majors in the last 2 1/2 years as many times as he did in the previous decade before that. Maybe it’s time for Fed to break the cycle against Novak? I certainly hope so. But I don’t know why I should count on it…
Yes that is how Nole often deals with the whole popularity of Fedal at these Championships, takes the sour lemons he gets from the crowd and media and makes lemonade. One of the many things I love about Novak Djokovic!
I think it eventually wears him down and I believe it was partially what led to his long slump after winning his Grand Slam.
Absolutely, Hawk. Of course it would wear anyone down. But he is willing to put himself in those uncomfortable places and fight back. Maybe he is giving up on getting the respect and love from the crowds and media and just pushing through being the villain. It hurts me and makes me sad to see it. But at the same time it makes me love him more. I’m so proud of him. 💪
Your right RC. Hope he can do it again tomorrow.
I just hope that both players can bring their A game. It has the potential to be a great match.
Happy for Halep today but would have also loved to see Serena win after giving birth and tie homophobe Court.
Kevin, my beef with you lately is that you seem eager to write Fed’s obit as an old man, disregarding his actual results. Sure, you didnt’ outright say that Fed couldn’t beat Nadal, but you said you would be close to shocked if he did. To my mind, yours’ and many people’s predictions totally reminded me of right before AO 2017. Then I could understand it, because Fed really did have a mental block and it had been so long since he had beaten Rafa in a major. The failures of 2014-15 against Nole also loomed large. But he got over that hump at that tournament, and the two further slams he won only relaxed him more. If he loses the final again to Novak, it will not be because of a mental weakness; it will be because Djokovic outplays him, which is obviously possible.
If you’ve watched the SF, I’d like to hear your current view of Fed’s baseline game, and if you still think it is as weak as you’ve lately suggested.
Benny, where are you! Please weigh in here! 😁 Joe- you too! I like hearing your take!
Great posts for Happy. You make me happy, Happy. Thanks. And you speak truth, imo.
I didn’t think Federer would win today. No freaking way did I think it, feel it or pick it, but I’m watching the 4th set now and I see it. I have underestimated Federer since 2010. And nine years later he’s still in the top three.
Congrats and apologies to Fed fans here if I have offended for counting out the Federer on various occasions. I’m humbled 🙇♀️
Congrats to the Rafa fans because on no account is he done. He, I thought did appear the strongest of the three throughout this fortnight. May we see Rafa contesting the US Open, more Wimbledons, and AO’s. What a total insane GOAT he is at Roland Garros!! 😀
Happy thinks Nole will win tomorrow but as a Nole fan (the Lone Ranger fan here) I’m not sure. I won’t count Fed out.
Ajde Nole for #16 is my #1 pick. But allez Fed for a ridiculous 9th Wimbledon if it’s to be his day. There will be Champagne popping tomorrow, either way.
Oh how wrong my predictions can be! lol
I think it’s very hard for people, when picking winners, to overlook history. And of course Novak is the world #1 and has won 3/4 previous slams. But the final is on Federer’s racket. I’ll note again that I did NOT say that about his match against Nadal; that’s because Rafa was playing a totally different, attacking style of tennis this Wimbledon. He tried again, imo, but Fed was just better at it than him today.
Novak, however, is basically playing his same backboard style of tennis, with a slightly greater willingness to come forward than in the past. His overall level, including his serve and ROS, is lower than his previous best, though obviously still very good. However, an attacking style such as Fed displayed today will beat him, no question in my mind. Some of posts above such as Happy’s are absolutely hilarious, imo. RBA was able to take a set off Novak, even when the former was less than his best. And Federer is going to get destroyed? Please. If he plays like today, he could well win in straight sets.
Will he? We’ll soon find out. But as I said in my previous post, the key, I think is mental. And Fed played the entire match today with an absolute calm, looking utterly secure in his abilities. I actually think he played with pretty much the same mentality in the RG SF, even though he was cleanly beaten. I will be amazed if he doesn’t bring that same demeanor to the final, and I predict it will take him to the title. Fed in 4.
It’s a shame, Happy says something that gives me hope and happiness and Joe snatches that away calling Happy silly. 🤨
Novak in 4 or 5
Sorry, Elizabeth, but do you think:
“Let’s not deceive ourselves: Novak will destroy Fed as usual”
is a measured assessment, either in substance or tone? Why is it a “shame” that a Fed fan (or even an objective observer) would think that was hilarious?
So? I liked hearing it from Happy. I’ll take any positives I can get for my favorite. I don’t get much reading here or other media and I get angry. I hate the US Open for their horrible behavior. Wimbledon is not usually as bad but it was bad today. Fedal are the media darlings. I certainly don’t hate either of them or Serena but I am naturally for the underdog not just in tennis but in general.
If I go to twitter I do find support for Nole there. But those fans have left these pages.
Laugh at me and think what you will. I believe Nole will win.
But it will be under extremely difficult circumstances.
If he doesn’t – I’ll throw myself at appreciating Federer’s 9th. With Rafa I completely accept that he’s got the FO. But it’s happiest for me when Nole wins – simple as that.
Elizabeth, I’m one who think Djoko will win his no. 16 on Sunday.
Djoko is different from Rafa, he has a game that can win on any surface, not unlike Fed, so Djoko normally doesn’t have much problem transitioning from clay to grass. Rafa OTOH plays the clay court game on clay and so he has to do some adjustments to his game when playing on other surfaces.
Djoko has the tools to neutralise Fed’s attacking imo. Also, he doesn’t have any mental block against Fed, having won their previous two encounters here.
Djoko should be winning his 5th Wimbledon come this Sunday. A recent article at tennis.com wrote about who’s next to dominate Wimbledon, after Borg, then Sampras, and then Fed. Despite Djoko winning it four times, the writer didn’t think he’s dominating at Wimbledon. A fifth title if it comes this Sunday, perhaps would confirm Djoko’s dominance there and adds him to that dominance list?
That’s fine. I’m a big Novak fan myself, although I’m obviously cheering for Fed in this one. I just thought the way Happy put it was a bit flippant and arrogant. I imagine if I had said something similar denigrating Nadal or Novak, lots of people here would jump on me.
I just don’t see how any honest observer could think the outcome of the final was that obvious, so I think some who confidently puts forward such tosh deserves ridicule and scorn.
lol, I hear plenty of flippant and arrogant remarks, perceptions, and predictions about Novak Djokovic. Usually I’m quiet about it but right now I would prefer to watch him win #16. Maybe I’m resentful about the fact that he will not get the love and support Federer gets tomorrow. I don’t like to watch that. But I don’t blame Federer and I understand Fed Fans deeply want this GS win for him. And since I am a tennis fan I will respect Fed’s win.
It’s just nice to hear another voice for Novak on these pages. I should think you’d understand, since this is mostly a Rafa Nadal family on TG. You are one of a few Federer fans here. I think most people here would have wanted Rafa’s 19th GS and 3rd Wimbledon.
None of the Big 3 are done. I am guilty of counting Federer as done tho. And he surprised me again. Happy for you…happy for him 😀
Maybe the best man win in 4 or 5 sets. We don’t want a wet blanket of a final, do we?
I have always liked Novak and never understood why others don’t like him. I think he is genuine, in everything from the roars and occasional outbursts, to the applauding others’ shots, to the grass-eating and shirt-ripping when he wins the title. I don’t find his tennis the most exciting, but have massive respect for his ability.
However, I have never counted him the same rival to Fed as Nadal is. I think Federer underestimated him for awhile, and never gave Novak props for his incredible USO wins in 2010-11. But I think Fed’s game shapes up well against his, and I chalk up the 2014-15 losses mainly to Fed’s mental blocks at not having won a slam for awhile and worrying that he wouldn’t win another.
Absolutely I hope for a close final, and I expect it will be. If Novak wins, I will be very happy for him and for you.
How can you (or Federer) not consider Novak Djokovic as a rival equal to Rafa? At first sure, but by now? Novak is as much a rival to Federer as Rafa is. You know the history.
Who doesn’t love a good Fedole match. Probably it’s my favorite rivalry.
Respect for Nole? He’s world number ONE – at least for now. This is the very reason Novak fans get a chip on their shoulder (whatever the figure of speech is) I certainly don’t feel warm and fuzzy when I hear that kind of talk!
All I meant by that was that Fed’s record against Novak is much more even than against Nadal (mostly because of clay), and I think it’s only in that 2014-16 period that Novak had the edge. We’ll soon find out if it continues; I just think that Fed’s mental game has improved since then, and that that will be enough to get him the win. But I would not be terribly surprised if I turn out to be wrong.
Before the tournament I said that if Nadal runs through his projected nightmare draw to take the title, on probably his weakest surface, it would be the greatest slam title ever.
I’ll now agree with you that if Fed beats Novak in the final it will be the GSOAT considering:
1. Novak and Rafa are the top two players in the world, having shared the last five slams between them.
2. Fed has never beaten them both in the same slam, let alone on the way to the title.
3. Fed would be the oldest slam champ in the open era, barely a month shy of 38.
Just thought I’d point out that in the last 4 majors, the player who defeated Kei Nishikori went on to win the title. 🤔🤷♂️😂
Yes, Sanju has superstitiously noted this previously.
Belated congratulations to Fed fans. Now that the loser troll is gone, I feel able to sincerely give my congratulations. I have seen the entire match and Fed deserved to win. He is still doing amazing things at this stage of his career.
Thanks NNY, and Amy for her heartfelt congrats also.
I’m as humbled as anyone,I really never saw that. But Joe deserves the kudos, he ‘s been reminding us how big a difference Feds new racquet and BH are now, compared to 2008.
Thanks, Al. In Rafa’s presser, he singled out Fed’s ability to take the ball on the rise, which in Nadal’s opinion Roger does better than anyone else. In my opinion, the larger racket helps Fed in that respect more than any other except maybe the serve. There’s just more margin for error.
So in those Nadal FH to Fed BH cross-court rallies, Fed is able to step inside the court more easily, and not get pinned back nearly as much as he used to. Even when he was basically blocking neutral BHs up the middle of the court, because he was taking the ball so early it takes enough time away from Rafa to make it a difficult shot to deal with.
Yes, he played a lot of shots as half-volleys which took time away from Rafa,that was one of the keys.Incredible timing needed
Big Al,
You are very welcome. There is no denying that Fed brought the goods in this match. Even how he managed to regroup after that second set was very impressive. You simply have to take your hat off to him.
😀
I call it as i see it. If nadal is playing djokovic in any tournament and stands no chance of beating him before the match starts, I will say he will lose to djokovic before the match starts and give my reasons.
I gave my reasons as to why djokovic will destroy federer on sunday. It was a fair assessment as i feel federer has a mental block against djokovic and djokovic has beaten him in their last two wimbledon finals. Federer is not beating djokovic with longer rallies and serve, djokovic is not nadal simple as that. His return of serve which is unbelievable will neutralize federer’s serve and longer rallies is his cup of tea, so federer does not have the advantage at all.
Unless djokovic decides to sleepwalk during the final, federer will win. Like I said, when was the last time djokovic lost a grand slam final to anybody not named wawrinka and nadal. Let’s be real here, recently djokovic is a very bad match up for federer. That is a fair assessment because federer hasnt beaten djokovic in any tournament let alone grand slam since the cincinnati finals 2015 (and that win was irrelevant cause djokovic beat federer in wimbledon 2014, 2015 and US open 2015). Even when he won against djokovic at the wtf in the round robin stage, djokovic beat him in the final where it mattered most.
Kevin is right and Eugene you need not worry yourself because you’ll be “happy” on sunday when your man wins. I’m being realistic here. Joe seems to have forgotten that federer was playing great tennis at wimbledon 2015 and 2014 and US open 2015 and yet when he arrived at the final, djokovic beat him in four sets each time except one of them that went to 5 sets and federer as expected collapsed in the 5th set.
Djokovic will not let federer play his game like nadal did here. He will win the long rallies and neutralize federer’s serve as usual and he will not feed federer short balls at all like nadal did. I wish I will be wrong and federer wins on sunday but as kevin put it nothing suggests otherwise. So, I’m not going to deceive myself in thinking otherwise. Sorry.
Current form suggests otherwise, Happy. And today Fed played some of the best tennis he ever has. I wouldn’t say the same about Novak. So that’s something.
Further, if I’m right that Fed’s mental block is gone, his best tennis is perfectly capable of beating Novak. Maybe if Novak summons his 2016 AO form, which was maybe the worst non-clay beat-down Fed has ever suffered, Fed should win. And even that would be close if Fed plays as he did today. He has plenty of weapons to use against Djokovic.
To be clear, I have no problem with you or anyone picking Novak to win. It’s the way you put it, as if it was a foregone conclusion that was obvious to anyone with a couple brain cells to rub together, that I thought was silly.
Well, we shall see how it goes!! As a said, let us hope for 5 sets and great tennis! So many GS finals suck because one of the finalists is too weak or injured after fighting through their draw.
Sorry NNY, I stand corrected, it was 3 US opens that nadal won beating djokovic (one of the greatest hard court players ever) twice in the finals and that’s no small feat.
When I said Eugene, i meant Elizabeth. My apologies for confusing the two.
The fact that two goats will be duking it out makes the duel so spicy and interesting
Roger wins
– he goats again in that case considering his age and the opponents he would have beaten
– he goes 3 clear again
-he gains the mental edge over both his fellow goats
-the most satisfactory if not the greatest slam title ever perhaps topped only by beating rafa and winning french
Novak wins
– 5 wimbledons and an outside chance of equalling rogers haul of 8 wimby titlea
– goes to 16 with the potential of equalling rafa considering next two are on hard
– cements position as fedal kryptonite and entrenches in head of fed further
– throws a severe dent into rogers grassgoat title having beaten him in 3 wimbly finals
Im a big Nole fan but not when he’s playing Fed , and in a Slam final , that gets magnified .
Haha! Same just replace fed with rafa
I am still not over this. Will Rafa ever get two weeks of sunshine again at Wimbledon.Sucks 🙁 If Novak wins, he will be closing in enormously with Fed both at GS numbers and weeks at #1. Unless Nadal or Fed wins the US and has a good end to the season, it wil be all assured Djokovic ends year end No.1
The only thing I do see is for Novak to achieve what he did with the number of slams and also the weeks at #1 I wouldnt have imagined it was the least possible a couple years ago. I hope Rafa does something to compete in both aspects even if for short periods.