First round
Murray over Bublik in 3, Brown over Sousa in 4
Vesely over Marchenko in 3, Fognini over Tursunov in 3
Kyrgios over Herbert in 3, Paire over Dutra Silva in 3
Shapovalov over Janowicz in 5, Pouille over Jaziri in 3
Tsonga over Norrie in 3, Lu over Bolelli in 5
Basilashvili over Berlocq in 4, Querrey over Fabbiano in 3
Anderson over Verdasco in 5, Seppi over Gombos in 3
Haas over Bemelmans in 3, Wawrinka over Medvedev in 3
Nadal over Millman in 3, Young over Istomin in 4
Whittington over Monteiro in 3, Khachanov over Kuznetsov in 4
Karlovic over Bedene in 4, Dzumhur over Olivo in 5
Rosol over Laaksonen in 4, Muller over Fucsovics in 3
Nishikori over Cecchinato in 3, Stakhovsky over Benneteau in 4
Copil over Gojowyczk in 4, Bautista Agut over Haider-Maurer in 3
Johnson over Kicker in 3, Albot over Bagnis in 4
Mayer over Troicki in 5, Cilic over Kohlschreiber in 4
Raonic over Struff in 3, Mahut over Youzhny in 4
Rublev over Travaglia in 3, Thompson over Ramos-Vinolas in 4
Sock over Garin in 3, Bellucci over Ofner in 4
Haase over Tiafoe in 4, A. Zverev over Donskoy in 3
Dimitrov over Schwartzman in 3, Baghdatis over Ward in 3
Granollers over Sela in 3, Isner over Fritz in 4
M. Zverev over Tomic in 5, Kukushkin over Daniel in 5
Lajovic over Tsitsipas in 4, Federer over Dolgopolov in 3
Pospisil over Thiem in 4, Simon over Jarry in 4
Donaldson over Tipsarevic in 4, Zeballos over Lorenzi in 4
Gasquet over Ferrer in 4, Darcis over Berankis in 3
Harrison over Coric in 5, Berdych over Chardy in 4
Monfils over Brands in 4, Edmund over Ward in 3
Sugita over Klein in 4, Lopez over Mannarino in 5
Del Potro over Kokkinakis in 3, Estrella Burgos over Gulbis in 3
Escobedo over Pavlasek in 4, Djokovic over Klizan in 3
Second round
Murray over Brown in 4
Vesely over Fognini in 4
Kyrgios over Paire in 5
Pouille over Shapovalov in 3
Tsonga over Lu in 4
Querrey over Basilashvili in 3
Anderson over Seppi in 4
Wawrinka over Haas in 4
Nadal over Young in 4
Khachanov over Whittington in 3
Karlovic over Dzumhur in 4
Muller over Rosol in 4
Stakhovsky over Nishikori in 4
Bautista Agut over Copil in 4
Johnson over Albot in 3
Cilic over Mayer in 4
Raonic over Mahut in 4
Thompson over Rublev in 5
Sock over Bellucci in 3
A. Zverev over Haase in 4
Dimitrov over Baghdatis in 4
Isner over Granollers in 4
M. Zverev over Kukushkin in 3
Federer over Lajovic in 3
Pospisil over Simon in 4
Donaldson over Zeballos in 4
Gasquet over Darcis in 3
Berdych over Harrison in 4
Edmund over Monfils in 5
Lopez over Sugita in 3
Del Potro over Estrella Burgos in 3
Djokovic over Escobedo in 3
Third round
Murray over Vesely in 4
Pouille over Kyrgios in 4
Querrey over Tsonga in 5
Wawrinka over Anderson in 4
Nadal over Khachanov in 4
Muller over Karlovic in 4
Bautista Agut over Stakhovsky in 4
Cilic over Johnson in 3
Raonic over Thompson in 3
A. Zverev over Sock in 4
Dimitrov over Isner in 4
Federer over M. Zverev in 3
Pospisil over Donaldson in 3
Gasquet over Berdych in 4
Lopez over Edmund in 4
Djokovic over Del Potro in 4
Fourth round
Pouille over Murray in 4
Wawrinka over Querrey in 4
Muller over Nadal in 5
Cilic over Bautista Agut in 3
Raonic over A. Zverev in 4
Federer over Dimitrov in 4
Gasquet over Pospisil in 5
Djokovic over Lopez in 4
Quarterfinals
Wawrinka over Pouille in 4
Cilic over Muller in 3
Federer over Raonic in 4
Djokovic over Gasquet in 3
Semifinals
Cilic over Wawrinka in 4
Federer over Djokovic in 4
Final
Federer over Cilic in 4
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who ya got?
Cilic over Stan?
Cilic over Tsonga more likely imo. I’ll go against the tide: Cilic over Tsonga; Raonic over Berdych. Final: Cilic over Raonic. The big four all get kicked out by or before the QF!
Murray gets knocked out by Pouille in R4; Rafa gets knocked out by Cilic in QF; Fed gets knocked out by Raonic in QF and Djoko gets knocked out by Feli in R4!
Please tell me that’s a joke.
Wait never mind who am I to talk I had Del Po in the RG semis lol
I think Wawrinka will be put quickly this year!
Quarters
Murray over Anderson in 5
Nadal over Cilic in 5
Federer over Zverev in 4
Djokovic over Gasquet in 3
Semis
Nadal over Murray in 4
Federer over Djokovic in 5
Final
Federer over Nadal in 5
If Fed takes five sets to beat Djoko, he will lose to Rafa in the final. Fed has never beaten Djoko and Rafa consecutively at a slam and he’s not going to do that here. If Djoko is good enough to reach the SF to meet Fed, he’ll be hard to beat so even if Fed beats him, he’ll be hard done by the match. Rafa will take advantage of that in the final.
Fed would certainly love to see Cilic in the final but it won’t happen…If Rafa is in the quarters he will beat Croat. Nole ain’r losng before semis and I see him losing to Fed in 4. Murray may surprise us all and could easily reach semis to face Rafa ( if Rafa gets there! I agree with Ricky that Muller may present the biggest challenge for Rafa but if the right Rafa shows up he will have it his way)… then anything could happen in the Murray vs Rafa semis…I would love to see Rafa facing Fed in the finals and this time around Rafa won’t have mental vs confidence issue to hand it to Fed in the fifth set…
Rafa didn’t hand the fifth set to Fed ? Fed just played super aggressive and it paid off
Yeah, but Rafa had an advantage and was up a break! All he needed to do is hold his own serve but he suddenly got tentative and was not serving well allowing Fed to be aggressive..,it was Rafa’s fault to get defensive and hitting short making himself an easy target for Fed! Rafa brought Fed back into the match… I can assure you should they meet in the Wimby finals Rafa will not let Fed play that supper agressive game!
Vamos Rafa!
I agree with Nats, Rafa didn’t serve well to hold on to his serve, giving Fed the chance to break his serve. Had Rafa being clutch, served an ace down the T for example, like he used to do in his good old days when he needed to, he would be in better position to fight for the win, though I won’t say for sure he would win. Fed did play and serve well when he needed to.
First round:
Murray over Bublik in 3
Brown over Sousa in 4
Marchenko over Vesely in 5
Fognini over Tursunov in 3
Kyrgios over Herbert in 3
Paire over Dutra Silva in 3
Shapovalov over Janowicz in 4
Pouille over Jaziri in 4
Tsonga over Norrie in 3
Bolelli over Lu in 4
Basilashvili over Berlocq in 4
Querrey over Fabbiano in 3
Anderson over Verdasco in 4
Seppi over Gombos in 3
Haas over Bemelmans in 4
Wawrinka over Medvedev in 4
Nadal over Millman in 3
Young over Istomin in 4
Whittington over Monteiro in 4
Khachanov over Kuznetsov in 4
Bedene over Karlovic in 5
Dzumhur over Olivo in 4
Rosol over Laaksonen in 4
Muller over Fucsovics in 3
Nishikori over Cecchinato in 3
Stakhovsky over Benneteau in 5
Copil over Gojowczyk in 5
Bautista Agut over Haider-Maurer in 3
Johnson over Kicker in 3
Albot over Bagnis in 3
Mayer over Troicki in 5
Cilic over Kohlschreiber in 4
Raonic over Struff in 4
Youzhny over Mahut in 5
Rublev over Travaglia in 4
Thompson over Ramos-Vinolas in 4
Sock over Garin in 4
Bellucci over Ofner in 3
Haase over Tiafoe in 4
A. Zverev over Donskoy in 3
Dimitrov over Schwartzman in 3
Baghdatis over J. Ward in 4
Sela over Granollers in 4
Isner over Fritz in 5
Tomic over M. Zverev in 4
Kukushkin over Daniel in 3
Tsitsipas over Lajovic in 5
Federer over Dolgopolov in 3
Pospisil over Thiem in 5
Simon over Jarry in 3
Tipsarevic over Donaldson in 4
Lorenzi over Zeballos in 4
Gasquet over Ferrer in 3
Darcis over Berankis in 4
Coric over Harrison in 4
Berdych over Chardy in 5
Monfils over Brands in 3
A. Ward over Edmund in 5
Sugita over Klein in 4
Lopez over Mannarino in 3
Del Potro over Kokkinakis in 5
Gulbis over Estrella Burgos in 4
Escobedo over Pavlasek in 4
Djokovic over Klizan in 3
YOUZHNY?!?!
Youzhny is 4-0 vs Mahut who is in a minor slump. Youzhny recently beat Sugita and Karlovic on grass. And Ward because Edmund is underwhelming on grass and in London and we got another Willis story. Ok the Ward pick is risky as hell but I don’t think Youzhny is a far fetched pick.
Edmund is not good on grass i agree, Ward to win? tell me one decent player who he won against on grass?
We like the old Colonel’s skills! Mahut isn’t what he was last year. Thanks for your first round and second round picks Benny!
WARD?!?!?
Final: Rafa over Fed in 5
?
why granollers over sela in 3? sela 7-1 grass this year granollers 0 grass matches …
Yeah I was a little stunned at that pick only because Granollers hasn’t played on grass this year, Sela won a grass challenger recently, and Sela beat Granollers earlier this year in Melbourne in four sets.
Second round:
Murray over Brown in 4
Fognini over Marchenko in 4
Kyrgios over Paire in 4
Pouille over Shapovalov in 5
Tsonga over Bolelli in 3
Querrey over Basilashvili in 4
Anderson over Seppi in 4
Wawrinka over Haas in 4
Nadal over Young in 4
Khachanov over Whittington in 3
Bedene over Dzumhur in 5
Muller over Rosol in 3
Nishikori over Stakhovsky in 4
Bautista Agut over Copil in 4
Johnson over Albot in 4
Cilic over Mayer in 3
Raonic over Youzhny in 4
Rublev over Thompson in 5
Sock over Bellucci in 4
A. Zverev over Haase in 5
Dimitrov over Baghdatis in 4
Isner over Sela in 4
Tomic over Kukushkin in 4
Federer over Tsitsipas in 3
Pospisil over Simon in 4
Tipsarevic over Lorenzi in 3
Gasquet over Darcis in 4
Berdych over Coric in 4
Monfils over A. Ward in 3
Lopez over Sugita in 4
Del Potro over Gulbis in 3
Djokovic over Escobedo in 3
I don’t think Rafa will lose to Muller. I can see him gettIng to the quarterfinals and facing Cilic. Then it could go either way
Ricky doesn’t seem to be sure about Murray, having him lose early. I don’t see Murray losing to Pouille. Many thought he would crash out early at RG. But he got to the semifinals. He thinks Fed and Novak will get through.
I think we are in for some surprises. I am not sure how it’s all going to play out. Maybe Stan will do better on the grass.
NNY, Murray has some hip issue, so I don’t foresee him going far. I think Pouille can do well on grass (he won a title on grass this season) and takes advantage of Murray’s vulnerability.
For Djoko, I think he can get better and better as he progresses along. I see no one in his quarter who would trouble him if he gets to a decent level. Feli I think has played too much tennis lately, he’s 35/36 like Fed and in BO5, he’s always losing to the big four guys. I think Djoko will reach the SF at least should he get past Feli in R4.
Fed should at least reach the QF to have a face off against Raonic again; I think he’ll win that one and then meets Djoko in the SF. If Fed doesn’t go five setters with Dimi and Raonic (possibly he has to beat both of them), he should have enough energy to go the distance with Djoko. One problem for Fed when playing BO5 on grass, I’m not sure his knees are still in good enough conditions like his good old days, having had his knee surgery and then suffered a fall at Wimbledon last year.
As for Rafa, if he gets to QF to face off against Cilic and wins that one, I think he can reach the final. Anything can happen in the final, it depends on who’s the fresher of the two finalists. If Rafa moves through his draw unscathed and efficiently, I like his chances in the final, if he has difficulties moving through his draw, then I think he won’t win even if he reaches the final.
Lucky,
Thanks for the breakdown and analysis. I forgot about the hip issue with Murray. I just think with do much on the line at Wimby for Murray, that if at all possible he would try to pull out all the stops. I didn’t know that Pouille won a title on grass. Ricky usually has good reasons when he picks one of the top four to go out early. I still am not convinced that Muller will bear Rafa. But there are just too many unknowns until we see Rafa in action.
Fed and Novak in the semis would be a good one. I don’t know that Fed will sail through his part of the draw. There seems to be a sense that Novak will do well here. I know he won Eastbourne and that’s good for his preparation, but I am not that sure yet.
There are still a lot of question marks as to how some of the players will do. We may know more about Rafa’s chances after we see him on the court.
Nny,
I don’t know what to think about Murray – I heard a report that Lendl says he’ll be fine. So, one Bracket for Murray making it past Pouille and on bracket having him lose to Pouille. I don’t trust anyone!
Pouille was very impressive in Stuttgart; and last year he showed us he can get to a quarterfinal in a GS on grass!
I have the blasphemous pick of having Federer lose to Novak and it goes against sensibility, perhaps. But as a Novak fan, I’m starting to hoping. Eastbourne was weak competition in general. But a win is a win, confidence-wise.
rc,
I have been struggling when it comes to Murray because of the hip issue. I think I have him gettIng to the quarterfinals in one bracket. I would expect Lendl not to give anything away. There is a lot on the line for Murray. I may do another bracket for the ATP before the deadline!
Why do you think Raonic beats Zverev. I really don’t see that happening
Because Zverev doesn’t do as well at the slams yet. Raonic’s serve will probably be too tough over the course of a five set match. Zverev could win though. For me that is a very close matchup.
Edmund is not good on grass i agree. ward to win? tell me one decent player on grass who he played against
Um…Falla and Berrer…AS IN NONE AND THATS WHY HE WILL WIN #MarcusWillis2.0 (if you’re betting on that match listen to Ricky but don’t be surprised if Ward becomes Willis 2.0)
If Fed and Djoko get to semis..I feel that will be the turnaround match for Djoko and he will beat Federer in 5
I think that one of the most compelling potential match-ups could be Federer-Djokovic. I am of the opinion that in the last few years, Federer has had some sort of mental fragility when facing Novak AT SLAMS. Federer consistently has beaten Novak in straight sets at smaller tournaments in recent years, but couldn’t win two sets in a row in any of their 3 slam matches in 2015-2016. And in the two slam finals they played in 2015, Fed was arguably playing at a better level than Novak leading into the final, but then couldn’t couldn’t even win two sets off Novak in either of those finals. And it’s not like Fed’s More recent BO3 set wins over Novak have been close- Fed won all of them pretty comfortably in straight sets, and he showed no fear or mental fragility against Novak in those matches. But as soon as the stakes were raised and Fed felt that pressure of finally getting that 18th major title, that confidence that he showed in all their BO3 matches seemed to just dwindle. In AO 2016, I don’t think it mattered how confident Fed was, he wasn’t beating Novak that day. But in those two 2015 finals, I saw a guy who was at a very high level leading into those finals, and who had won 2 sets in a row off of Novak multiple times recently in smaller matches, suffer some sort of mental block against Novak Djokovic. Especially in 2015 US Open- he had a million break points and chances to take that match, and he withered under the pressure (which I don’t blame him because I would too haha!). All of the times that Fed lost to Rafa in slams, it was less surprising because Fed always struggled against Rafa, and it was a nightmare match-up for him. But Novak was always a better match-up for Fed that Rafa was (obviously), and it just looked obvious to me that Fed’s 2015 US/Wimbledon losses to Novak were so much more of a mental issue than a physical tennis one…
That being said, Fed has arguably played at an even better level this year than he did in summer 2015, and we all know that Novak’s level has dropped. But even with that as the case, if Novak and Fed both make it to the semis to face each other, I will continue to remain weary of expecting Fed to beat Novak at a slam because I believe that the mental issue I spoke of is that real! After Fed’s crazy performance against Murray at Wimby in 2015, I was pretty psyched to see him carry that level into the final against Novak, and I picked Fed to win that match (as did many others). But he just didn’t really show up. Yes, part of this stuff is obviously related to Novak’s greatness, but Fed was a shell of himself in that final compared to what he had been leading up to that final. And frankly, as someone who enjoys Federer’s game more than Djokovic’s, I was disappointed in Fed in those 2015 finals. So until Fed beats Novak in a slam again, I just can’t bring myself to make any assumptions or picks pertaining to Fed/Nole slam matches, no matter how different their respective levels are leading into a potential semifinal… I felt the same way before this year’s AO final. Even though the conditions were ideal for Fed, I just wasn’t willing to consider picking him to beat Rafa in a slam until I saw him do it again. Sure enough, Fed did get that win over Rafa. I have no doubt that Fed CAN beat Novak in a slam again, but I just won’t be able to feel comfortable picking Fed over Novak at a slam until I see it happen again. But FIRST they need to make the semis! 🙂
Kevin, I don’t think it’s a mental issue for Fed against Djoko in BO5. I think it’s more to do with Fed not being able to sustain a good level throughout his match against Djoko. I would think Djoko is the more consistent of the two to be able to sustain a high level of play throughout.
I feel when Djoko is playing against Fed or Rafa, he tends to be playing with full concentration with no lapses, for he knows how good they are and he just can’t afford to have any lapses. Against Murray, Djoko does have his lapses during the match but he’s still able to pick up his level to win the match in the end.
In BO3 and on quick surfaces Fed has the upper hand against Djoko ( notice that Fed beats Djoko at Dubai, Cincy, which are quicker surfaces) but in BO5, even on grass and USO HCs, Djoko has more time to work his way back and snatch the momentum away from Fed.
I agree with you, Lucky. However, I think that there has been a mental issue on top of what you pointed out.
I agree with Lucky. I don’t think it’s mental and was not the case when Fed lost back-to-back slam finals to Novak at Wimby and the USO in 2015. I do believe that it was a case of Fed just not being able to sustain a high enough level of play against Novak. We have to remember that this was when Novak was at his best. He was a mental beast and was also able to go to another level and raise his game in the crucial moments of those matches. He just edged out Fed when it mattered most.
Fed even had the raucous USO crowd firmly behind him. But it wasn’t enough. At that time Novak was able to tune out the crowd and just be that much better when it counted.
I think the US Open loss was a little mental because he had lost the last two slam finals to Novak at his favorite tournament. I just feel like he doubted himself and wasn’t tight because he missed so many returns in that final it was unbelievable. Novak’s serve is good but not THAT good. I don’t think Novak played that well in that US Open final. He did play well in those Wimbledons. I don’t think mental was involved in those, particularly the epic 2014 showdown. But I do think Roger lost that US Open final mentally. Looked so unconfident despite playing so well to get there and beating Novak in Cincy weeks before. Now I guess you could say it was about sustaining a level in that US Open final but I think that was more the case in the two Wimby finals. US Open final Roger never really got it going and it wasn’t really that great of a match to watch, unlike the incredible 2014 Wimbledon final.
I think now the discrepancy in their current form will be enough to give Roger the belief to beat Novak in the semis if they play and like I said in another comment here, he probably knows if he can beat Rafa in a slam final this season, he can probably beat an out of form Djokovic in a slam.
Kevin, too much was made of the Fed’s AO win over Rafa, bear in mind Rafa was also back from injury and he had shorter time to work on his game unlike Fed. Rafa was also not playing with confidence at that time and I do feel he’s also surprised by his own level of play when he’s able to reach the final.
Fed almost lost the final despite having one more day of rest and a not as grueling SF. The IW easy win was a shocker, though Fed was playing very well, Rafa played so poorly and lost so quickly; and I feel Rafa’s poor play was because he was playing b2b tournaments, having reached the final in Acapulco the previous week, and having to play Fed so soon at IW.
The Miami final, Fed wasn’t even playing that well compared to IW but Rafa was mishitting all over the place! I guess Rafa was worried about his clay season round the corner and having played non stop from Acapulco to Miami going deep to reach finals in two of three events had also taken its toll on him, mentally if not physically.
Fed was also playing many matches during that stretch but he losing early at Dubai, and Kygrios withdrawing from his scheduled match vs Fed at IW, did give Fed some breathing space amidst the busy three weeks of IW/Miami.
Rafa won six matches to get to the final. I think he probably was pretty confident when playing Fed. Fed just went ultra aggressive on the forehand and backhand and I think that surprised Rafa how well Roger handled his heavy forehand to Roger’s backhand. Rafa is still so good that he almost got that much done but I actually don’t think enough credit was given to Fed for the ultra aggressive game he played that day. I think that aggression will beat Novak here on Roger’s favorite surface. I don’t know if Fed has ever been this aggressive on both forehand AND backhand. That AO final was important because it showed Fed had worked on hitting over the backhand more and that he could consistently do it with power and success. Also that was important for Fed as not only his first slam final win over Rafa in ages, but his ability to come through that match will give bundles of confidence if he plays a Novak that has had a significantly worse year than Roger or the badass he beat in the AO final.
I agree with you 100%, Benny. I think I’m just a pretty skeptical person in general. I don’t consider myself a “_____ fan” when it comes to active players, but I don’t prefer the respective game of Federer and Nadal over that of Djokovic and Murray. Also, when I really got back into intensely following pro tennis a few years back, after many years of not being as into it, Fed and Rafa had become more of the underdogs while Djokovic was the dominant one. I’ve always been one to support the player who is more of the underdog in a given match-up. Therefore, when I got back into tennis really heavily and Djokovic was just winning almost everything, I naturally felt compelled to root for whoever he was playing against. In Federer’s case at that time, everyone was saying that he was most likely finished, was passed his prime, and that the style of game had just moved beyond him. This was in the latter part of 2014 I believe, after Novak had gotten back to #1 and beaten Fed at Wimbledon. Fed had made a lot of masters finals and the Wimby final, and people were starting to think that maybe he wasn’t done after all. So I couldn’t help but feel compelled to root for the guy who was trying to “come back”, especially when he faced Djokovic. I felt the same way with Rafa vs. Djokovic. I felt compelled to root for the guy who not the dominant one at the time, especially when he was struggling to get back to form after his injury woes in latter-2014. I don’t dislike any of the Big 4 at all. I think I was just naturally drawn to rooting for the guys who were fighting to get back to glory, particularly Fed and Rafa. However, ironically, I do not find myself rooting for Novak now that he has become the less-dominant one…
Anyway, because I was rooting for Federer to beat Djokovic in those two 2015 major finals, I was honestly very disappointed in his performances in those finals. I, and many others, felt like he was absolutely the favorite going into those finals against Novak, and I was so let down by how much Fed’s level seemed to drop in those matches. So that is why I just can’t help but be a skeptic. I mean, if already this season Fed came back from 3-1 down in the fifth to beat a guy who he has a much worse slam record against than he does against Djokovic, then there is absolutely no reason he can’t do it against Djokovic! I guess I just can’t help my natural skepticism… If they do happen to face each other in the semis, I won’t lie- I would love to see Fed win that match. 🙂 I also need Fed to make the final because I really, really want to see Fedal Wimbledon IV. 🙂
Oh snap! I meant to say that I DO prefer Fed’s and Rafa’s game over Djokovic’s or Murray’s! Woops!
Same here. I think I missed the Wimbledon 2015 final because I was playing in a tournament myself actually. But that US Open final disappointed me when I watched it. I hope he proves me right and wins that semifinal.
See Kevin, you’re a biased fan, in favor of Fed that’s why you see Fed losing to Djoko because of mental issues but failed to see how well Djoko played.
I’m not a fan of either, so I saw the match the way it was, i.e. Djoko being the better player and thus won in four sets, not having to struggle to win in five.
I honestly think Fed was the better player than Djoko in both USO2010 and 2011 and should have won those two matches!
Benny, Rafa wasn’t confident when he started the AO. And, don’t forget his grueling SF took a lot out of him and with one less day of rest, it shown in that final set.
You said Fed went ultra aggressive, but he was already like that during the whole match, so it’s not like Rafa didn’t know that! It’s just that Rafa wasn’t able to hold on to his lead, just like he couldn’t against Pouille in that USO2016 match, or the AO R1 match in 2016 against Verdasco. In those matches Rafa had the upper hand but managed to lose the matches! Such was his mental state during tight matches!
It took him until the clay season to overcome that mental demon(he always needed clay to give him confidence, not unlike in 2010).
Djoko beat Fed because he’s the better player in the two Wimbledon finals. Djoko was just so much better and more confident than Murray when facing Fed. He was serving and returning very well all match. Like I said, against Fed ( and Rafa), Djoko never have lapses, just full concentration. His intensity saw him to the title!
I saw those two finals, and I’d never thought that Fed would win those two finals, because I simply saw a very determined Djoko. And, Djoko had played against Fed so many times that he’s well prepared, in addition, he’s in top form. Fed just couldn’t impose his game on Djoko the way he could on Murray.
The USO final, I couldn’t remember much about that final as I was sometimes falling asleep during that match (time zone issue), I do believe Djoko wasn’t doing well at the USO despite reaching all those finals (relatively speaking), he was 2/7 in USO finals so not a very good success rate there.
Lol so Nadal doesn’t have confidence in his five set match winning abilities after he beats Dimitrov 6-4 in the fifth and beats Zverev in a five setter in the third round. And Fed hit huge forehands and backhands at big moments. Like on many deuce points Fed would come up with extraordinary tennis. You and many other Rafans can’t really give Fed credit for coming up with even bigger and better tennis in big moments. Just watch the final set again. Yeah Fed was playing super aggressive through whole match but not like the final set. In the final set he dug deeper than ever and was beyond clutch, hitting the sickest shots and playing the sickest points when he needed to the most.
Benny, I was referring to Rafa not being confident going into the AO!
So Rafa is clutch in SF when he saves breakpoints against Dimitrov in the final set . He is clutch when he wins against Zverev in tight five setter. But once he loses finals he is not clutch. Rarely, you will find somebody who writes with such double standards. A disgraceful Rafa fan, Rafa deserves a lot better fans than him.
fedexal, I must say with your language you’re a disgrace to tennis fans in general.
fedexal, did you jump on those who assumed that Fed with his bigger racket would beat Rafa at FO during Rafs’s heydays?
Isn’t it common place to compare a player now and then with himself and also with his rivals? You act as if you have the authority here to tell other posters what to post and what not! Who do you think you are?
You think the 2017 Rafa is better than the 2014 Rafa at AO; we have to agree to disagree. The Rafa of AO2014 played with confidence and authority, esp in the way he despatched Monfils, and how he edged out Kei in TBs to win in straight sets.
Just when I started dumping Rafa’s history of earlier matches when he has lost being a break up, every stats of older matches, now the argument is changed to Fed’s Fans excuses. Yes, if Fed fans are coming up with arguments like that, they are wrong as well and he deserves better fans as well.
Luckystar, most of your arguments are devoid of facts.
Nope fedexal, yours were also opinions. What facts do you have? If you’re bringing out all those stats, sorry stats could only tell you so much; it couldn’t tell you the mental state, the emotions the player feels out there during a match. One could only guess, like some Fed fans do, for e.g., about Fed’s mental state when facing Djoko in those 2015 finals.
I really don’t know what you’re trying to argue about! That Fed was the better player than Rafa in the AO final? Well I didn’t disagree! That Fed won the match more than Rafa losing it? I didn’t disagree either! That Fed was ultra aggressive in the match? I agree about that too! No where in my posts that I disagree about all those!
What I was saying was that Rafa could have done better in the last few games; like serving better to hold serve, and capitalizing when Fed was nervous in his last service game but Rafa didn’t. I didn’t assume that Rafa would win in doing those, but at least pushed the match further instead of losing four games in a row; to lose the match in such manner was to me rather disappointing.
Sorry, Lucky, I just can’t agree with you that “too much was made” over Fed’s AO final win. I didn’t see Rafa just getting too tired at 3-1 in the fifth and choking it away. I’ve watched that set multiple times now, and I see Fed upping his level when it mattered most. Sure, Rafa had to have been tired because he had a lot of 5-setters, but I just don’t believe that mattered. I’ve never seen Federer show more guts in the clutch than he did in that moment. One of the more impressive, and frankly surprising, moments was when Fed was serving for the match and Rafa was up 15-40 with two break points. That was the moment where I was sure that history was going to repeat itself and Rafa was going to do what he does and break back and then eventually win. But I was wrong. If I’m not mistaken, Fed hit an ace, and then went for a pretty gutsy-looking inside out forehand winner and made it. That was insane to me. That’s not something we seen Federer do very often. He could have easily gotten tight and gotten passive and not gone for that shot, but he went for it and got himself to deuce. We can debate all day about everything that led up to those last few games, but in the end Rafa was in a position to take that match, and Fed miraculously fought back and took that set/match. I know you don’t agree with me in the slightest, but that’s ok. I know what I saw when Rafa was in a winning position, and Federer upped his game like he never had before. I don’t blame you for pointing to every possible reason why Rafa didn’t win that match- he’s your hero! But there’s just no way anyone could ever convince me that Fed didn’t thoroughly and rightfully deserve that win. Many of the pro-Rafa people seem to feel a need to justify that loss so vehemently, just like Pro-Federer/Djokovic people often set out make excuses when their guy loses. The bias in unfortunate, but it’s expected when their idol means so much to them. I really hate how I feel like I have to walk on egg shells when sharing my opinions on here because I know the pro-Rafa sentiment is extremely high on this site, but I guess occassionally I have to accept that what I’m going to say will be very unpopular. I’m sorry everyone!
Yeah as a Fed fan it annoys me how many reasons people have for the result of that final that don’t remotely give Fed credit for the aggressive mindset he displayed through that final set even when he was down and when it was a crucial moment. That forehand he hit at 30-40 in the last game was WICKED. And that epic point of the match at 4-3 deuce Fed just kept smacking forehands until finally he got past Nadal’s incredible defense.
Benny, credit was already given to Fed for winning that match. The match didn’t just hinge on those few points. Fed was able to go the distance with Rafa, when after the 2009 final, he kept losing to Rafa in four sets (2012 and 2014 AO) was already something impressive.
I’m not sure the Rafa of AO2014 won’t have held on to win the match in the end; but the 2017 Rafa just couldn’t.
Haha what credit? I’ve seen pretty much none given after that match.
Also Benny, Fed was already aggressive during all his matches but still needed five sets to finish off Kei and Stan. The difference to me was that Rafa of AO wasn’t the Rafa on clay at the FO, if not Rafa won’t be so ‘unclutch’ to lose the lead even if Fed leveled the fifth set with ultra aggression.
That’s my take about the AO match. It’s not like Fed was sweeping the field easily with his aggressive play; he still needed to fight tooth and nail vs three of the top ten players.
That’s just it he wasn’t unclutch. Fed earned the points to get back in. Also of course Rafa wasn’t like he was at the French. Nadal is by far at his best and most comfortable on clay.
Benny, it’s even more annoying that some Fed fans after this AO win, went on to say that Fed with his new racket would beat Rafa on clay, and even during Rafa’s heydays! I’ll say to them ‘stop dreaming!’ And that’s how annoyed I was and I am!
Benny, Rafa was unclutch; even if Fed leveled it at 5-5, or 4-4, there were still chances for Rafa to move ahead, but he was unclutch, when in the past, he would go on to hold serve, that’s the difference imo!
Do you know what unclutch means? Basically means you choke. I’d say he was unclutch in the Pouille match maybe a little in Verdasco match. Not against Federer. He didn’t miss easy shots in huge moments a bunch. Fed took it to him and reaped the rewards. Also that Fognini match, Fognini just started playing out of his mind. Nadal didn’t even drop his level in the last three sets of that one. I watched that live and was absolutely stunned by the play of Fognini. I don’t actually know if I’ve ever witnessed someone in the zone quite like Fognini was that day.
Maybe not choke. More like you play poorly in the big moments. Nadal didn’t. He did at the end of that Pouille match though.
Luckystar, I am a Nadal fan, but you continue to write garbage here. Fed won Aus final because he was super aggressive in the final set. You check the winners/errors ratio and come back on this. What are you comparing AO2014 Rafa versus AO 2017 Rafa, Rafa on clay versus Rafa on hard. I would even say that had Federer been super aggressive like he was in 2017 in Aus 200, he would hav won that 2009 final as well. Check his 2009 stats versus 2017 stats.
Your tennis match summarization skills are extremely poor.
Benny, Rafa wasn’t able to hold his own serve and got broken, when in the past he was clutch enough to serve well to get out of trouble. He may still lose in the end, but I expected more from him if he’s playing better but obviously he couldn’t.
Fedexal, could you read my posts more carefully? I don’t know what garbage you’re mumbling about. I didn’t deny Fed was aggressive in the AO final. You brought up AO2009 but didn’t Rafa had a tough SF match and also with one less day rest too? Had Fed played more aggressively in that match, yes he might win it! I didn’t say he couldn’t! But I was talking about the Rafa of AO2014 when he finished off Fed in straight sets. Clearly that Rafa would do better than the Rafa of AO2017, don’t you think?
Fed could’ve finished off Rafa in four sets at this year’s AO, I don’t deny it but he didn’t, and that’s the problem with Fed when facing Rafa. And, I certainly don’t think Rafa was playing better tennis than his AO2014. I see nothing wrong with my summarization of Fedal and their matches.
2008 Rafa had three breakpoints in 3rd set, 4th set he had match on his racket, it still went to 5th set.
2011 Miami Final he lost despite being a break up in final set.
2012 AO final he lost despite being a break up.
2013 RG final Djoker took him to fifth set and he barely scrapped probably due to a lucky net code . He was up a break twice in fourth set.
Luckystar will continue to post wrong facts and I will keep correcting him. The only reason Rafa lost final set to Fed because Fed somehow took his game to new level , with no mistakes/a lot of winners.
Rafa being clutch or no clutch holds no meaning. I have already proven that with facts.
Lucky, the only thing that is wrong with your match summarizations is it seems you dig deep for random excuses that seem somewhat irrelevant and some excuses that seem exaggerated or created for sake of argument. Like how you are saying Rafa is so unclutch now. I can totally argue against that because Rafa had just beaten Zverev and Dimitrov in five setters earlier in the tournament. He loses the one final and you are saying he is unclutch and not the player he was 3 years ago. Basically, he beat Fed three years ago in the semis because Fed was testing out his new racket at the time and not in great form yet, still approaching the form he would reach later in the year. Actually, he was testing out new racket but maybe that wasn’t even why he lost. Rafa played a lot better than Fed but Fed simply is playing a lot better now. If Fed was playing like he did in AO 2017, who knows how the AO 2014 final would’ve gone. Also, you say Rafa is not the same now as he was back in 2014. Well duh he is three years older now. Also you mention how “unsure of himself” he is because he got bageled in Miami. Maybe he just wasn’t playing well or the conditions weren’t great for him. I mean he still reached the final. And you also bring up the humidity in the Fognini match. I wasn’t at the match I meant live on TV too. From what I can remember, Fognini just started going for broke and making everything like you said he was. But also from what I remember, there were TWO players in that match. As in humidity and other factors they can’t control would have affected both. I would think Rafa is fitter and in better shape than Fognini considering their mental approaches on the court alone. So why does the humidity not affect Fog too. I know you didn’t blatantly say that but that is basically what you’re implying by saying Rafa was affected by the humidity out of nowhere. It’s just a petty argument because whether Rafa was feeling effects from humidity or not, Fognini probably would’ve won the match. Who knows? Maybe the humidity or whatever was affecting Fog for the first two sets.
Please Benny, we all agreed that Fed had his BH improvement doing all the damage.
What else you want us to say, when the match was so close and could have gone either way? That Fed was fantastic to edge out Rafa in five sets?
Honestly, like what Joe said earlier, Fed should have won in four sets, but he let it slipped away a bit before fighting hard to win in the end.
It’s not like Fed beat Rafa convincingly, like in IW. In IW, Fed was simply fantastic and I believe most Rafa fans were disappointed that Rafa lost in such a manner, we are more shocked actually than disappointed tbh.
Benny, you made me laugh about Foggy affected by humidity in the first two sets but then suddenly playing well in the next three sets!
Anyway, Rafa had problems dealing with humidity as he gets older. He was badly affected by it during his match with Dzumhur at Miami last year that he had to retire from the match. If you asked me, I would say that under normal conditions, Rafa would be able to weather the storm, before Foggy started playing unbelievable tennis!
Benny, you want to compare playing against Zverev and Dimi, to playing against Fed in the final? In fact most of Rafa’s fans were happy that Rafa came through those two matches having being pushed to five sets; but the test was still in the final and against one of the big four members. (TBH even in his clay court matches, once the match got tight, I do believe at least some of his fans were still worried that he would lose in those crucial moments if he’s not clutch enough!).
Benny, are you serious when you think Rafa of 2014 AO would lose to this Fed? Fed was playing aggressive against Rafa in that 2014 SF but Rafa was simply a step ahead and anticipated well. Given that Fed had to edge out Rafa in 2017, I doubt he could do the same to Rafa who was playing better tennis in 2014.
You said Rafa won’t be able to be better now, or as good as his 2014 which was three years back, well on the HCs yes but Rafa on clay proved that he can be better but that’s besides the point.
We do agree that Rafa wasn’t playing well at Miami but he’s still able to make the final, but having to win a TB against Mahut and a 7-5 set against Foggy who was playing like crap in the first set!
Again Fed was just better than Rafa in the final, Fed not playing as well as in IW, while Rafa was playing poorly for a Masters final.
2017 Federer >>>> 2014 Fed. In 2013-2014 Fed was suffering from same loss of confidence which Nadal suffered in 2015. One can’t say how would have 2017Fed fared against Nadal in 214. Also, it is senseless for most of us to debate how he would have fared apart from few posters here.
In my opinion 2017 Rafa is better than 2014 Rafa. Stats of AO 2017 vs AO 2014 certainly prove that . I’ll rather go by stats than whims of a random poster.
Kevin, read my post of 2.41 am.
Could you explain why Rafa lost his match vs Pouille at USO last year when he had the upper hand, also Rafa’s loss to Verdasco at AO last year when he also had the upper hand?
You would expect the good old Rafa to win in those tight situations, but not the Rafa of 2015 to 2016 or even the early season 2017 Rafa. Don’t you also expected Rafa to win those two matches when he had the upper hand? That’s the issue with Rafa for the past two to three years!
It certainly took him a long time to overcome that issue and I’m glad he has overcome that now; he’s more confident now I believe.
Pouille loss was rough but Verdasco was untouchable in the fifth against Nadal. Literally nobody could have stopped him the way he was playing that day. I think he hit something like 90 winners in that one.
Benny, Rafa was winning the first two sets and if he’s good enough, the match won’t need to go the distance, and Verdasco won’t even have chances to hit 90 winners! But, that’s the problem with Rafa, that he’s not able to hold on to the lead, and it happened to him in the past few years. Another example was that Foggy match at USO2015!
Benny, you watched the match live but I watched the match close up on tv screen; Rafa was clearly bothered by the humidity then, he couldn’t raise his level any further while Foggy just hit without missing after winning the next one or two sets. Rafa wasn’t playing well imo, at least not well enough to weather the storm.
Foggy, like Delpo or Sod or Rosol or Verdasco, if you can’t contain them, they would go ahead and hitting hard and going for broke. On their good days, they won’t miss much and that’s the problem for their opponents.
Luckystar, In Miami Fed had an extreme draw. Played a 3 hour SF , whereas Rafa had an easy lead up to finals. Still Fed beat Rafa easily. Do you think long matches make that much of a difference to the final outcome. And go read Rafa’s interview after finals, he said main diff was Fed was aggressive and his movements due to long SF did not actually change the outcome, he was “a little bit” slow.
BTW nobody can bring Rafa of 2014 in 2017. We don’t have a time machine. Players do change over years. 2017 Rafa has more variety than Rafa 2014 .
fedexal, I didn’t question Fed’s aggressiveness in the first place. I didn’t even think Rafa would win the AO 2017 final in the first place! I just felt that Rafa was still not back to his best level yet during AO. If he was, he would have been more clutch, at least hold on to his own service game in the last set by some great serving, something he used to do when he was playing his best tennis. He couldn’t, and Fed could break his serve and went on to win the match.
As I’ve mentioned in some of my previous posts, Fed might still win in the end, but I would expect Rafa being a bit tougher to beat. The Rafa of 2017 has more varieties but he’s not playing at the high level of his AO2014. And yes, Rafa is 30 going to 31, long five hours match did affect him, you don’t expect him to play like a 22 year old! The 22 yo Rafa needed five sets to edge out Fed in the AO2009 final, the 30 yo Rafa would be worse off than the 22 yo version imo.
I’ve already talked about the Miami final; Fed wasn’t playing as great as his IW or AO, but Rafa played worse, misfiring so many shots and hitting so many short balls. Rafa even got bageled by Kohlschrieber earlier on, a sign of him being unsure of himself at Miami.
Fedexal as usual will argue for the sake of arguing. If you think Rafa wasn’t clutch in that 2008 Wimbledon final, then how he was able to win it in the end? After losing the 3rd and 4th sets, most players would have gone away, but not Rafa. Rafa played an almost flawless fifth set, if I’m not wrong he saved one BP along the way in that fifth set. It’s Fed, after having the momentum with him, that he faltered and lost.
You think Rafa didn’t feel nervous on the verge of winning his first Wimbledon? Still he was clutch in the fifth set, not allowing Fed any chance of breaking him and so he won in the end.
You want to talk about Miami 2011 final? Rafa said he had nothing left,he wilted in the heat and humidity. The AO2012 final? That was when he had lost 6 finals in a row to Djoko, he was nervous and so he ended up losing.
He was able to hold off Djoko in the FO2013 SF because 1) he’s playing well, 2) he had beaten Djoko on clay in 2012 so he’s with more calm when playing against Djoko.
I feel you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing; we all know after Rafa lost six or seven finals in a row to Djoko, he lost his confidence esp when playing against him.
After his 2014 injury and comeback in 2015, he wasn’t the same player he once was, so he was losing close matches that in the past he would have won.
I really don’t know what’s the fuss about, as I mentioned, I never deny that Fed was playing aggressive tennis and playing well, it’s just that Rafa could have done better when up a break in the fifth; Rafa might still lose, just perhaps played a bit better and not lost a few games in a row to lose the match!
Luckystar, clutch no clutch is a shit theory. Fed lost 2009 AO final as played a poor fifth set. He had 5/15 as compared to 23/9 , yes these are winners/unforced errors.
Ok, another thing , I will say 2017 Rafa was way better than 2009 Rafa. He ad 12/8 as compared to 3/5 in terms of winners/unforced errors.
So, I will reply in your terms. If Fed of 2017 had turned up in AO 2009, he would have won the final set with a breadstick. I know Fed of 2017 can never turn up in 2009, but unfortunately some posters here understand this language only.
Fedexal, I happened to agree with you about Fed of 2017winning against Rafa of AO2009. If Fed was more aggressive during that AO2009 final, he would most likely won the match. In fact, it’s only Rafa’s determination that saw him through that match, and Fed did falter in that match in the fifth set. If Fed was more aggressive, Rafa would have lost in four sets.
In fact, both 2009 and 2017 AO Fed had the upper hand, and could have won both in four sets. It’s just that he faltered in both to let Rafa pushed it to the fifth.
Kevin why take it so personally? I didn’t try to convince you that Fed didn’t deserve that win! Fed won that match and that title alright!
It’s just that the pro Fed supporters are getting too much ahead of themselves, even saying that Fed would beat Rafa on clay with his bigger racket, not only now, but during Rafa’s heydays on clay! Judging by how well Rafa was playing on clay this year, you think that claim was realistic?? And that’s why I said too much credit given to Fed’s AO win when one has to look at the circumstances before jumping to any conclusion.
The clay heyday thing is too far for sure. That’s pretty bold to say the bigger racket would’ve helped that much. I think it would’ve helped but not to an extent in which Rafa doesn’t have all the RG wins over Roger.
I think it is fair to say that Roger handles Rafa’s forehand with his backhand a lot better now mostly because of the different racket. And he has a more aggressive mindset with that shot now.
Nobody denies that Fed has improved his BH and it’s looking more aggressive now and he trying to take the ball early on that wing. It’s just that on clay, Rafa has too many options and it’s not only hitting to Fed’s BH all the time.
People have to realize that the Rafa now has more shots, more skills and more improved court craft than he had in the past including his heydays.
Marion Bartoli, when asked about this Rafa, put it very aptly, that in the past Rafa was winning the FOs with his FH and his speed/movement; right now Rafa is winning with his FH, Serve, BH, returns, volleys, movement around the court including going to the net. He’s got everything and it’s a daunting task to meet Rafa at the FO! Fed knows Rafa more than any of Fed’s fans know him (Rafa), he said before the clay season this year, that Rafa would tear through the clay season; true enough, Rafa didn’t disappoint his friend (Fed) and all his supporters!
Benny, not what I said. I didn’t mean Fed didn’t win it, I feel Rafa was too tentative in those moments, could have served better to hold serve. Fed was nervous in the last service game but Rafa overhit his shots to let Fed get back a point or two. Rafa didn’t take advange of Fed’s nervousness imo.
I don’t mean Fed would lose even if Rafa got back to level terms, Fed was having the upper hand imo, but Rafa losing so many games in a row was down not only to Fed’s aggressive play but also Rafa being tentative imo, could’ve done better I feel.
Luckystar, replying to your previous post, about Rafa being not clutch in fifth set in AO 2017. Rafa was clutch , in fact he saved a lot of breakpoints in first 2 service games and in the third game itself. Its just that he was getting outrallied and we did not see mistakes from Federer. I would say Rafa of AO 2017 was more clutch than Rafa of 2009 AO. Rafa let go second step in AO 2009 when he was up a break. You are not at all good with stats, as I mention you will continue to pour garbage over here until and unless you get rid of these double standards.
Fedexal, I don’t know why you’re talking about stats. I was talking about the last few games of the match. Rafa wasn’t able to hold on to his service game despite saving a few BPs from 0-40 down. He had BP in Fed’s last service game but overhit his shot. I do feel both were nervous, but Rafa as expected was the one who relented in the end, typical of him in the last few years.
And please don’t be rude by saying others are posting garbage. You don’t have to agree but others are entitled to their opinions. We don’t see eye to eye that’s all.
Fedexal, please refer to my post of 11.01 am.
I’m sure in that post of 11.01 am, I mentioned that it’s normal for Rafa to lose a set or two to Fed.
I would say that even when he’s up a break, he could still lose his serve and then lose the set; it’s not like Rafa hadn’t lost sets in that manner. It’s just that in crucial moments, like he’s nearing the finished line, the Rafa of the past would be more intense, more relentless, more clutch not to give away point(s).
Yes lucky Rafa was down 0-40 and came back but what followed soon after was that deuce point that was absolutely incredible from both guys that was the point of the match and was won finally with a Fed forehand winner down the line. Just shows how Fed went out there and earned that match with his gutsy and aggressive play. I know you aren’t saying Fed didn’t earn it but Rafa didn’t drop his level in tight situations.
HE DIDNT GIVE POINTS AWAY!! He couldn’t handle the heat Fed was packing down the stretch. It’s tough to be able to keep grinding against someone who is hitting as big and as effectively as Fed was. Yeah Rafa missed some easy shots at random times but so did Fed to give him the break in the first place. Anyways point is Rafa didn’t lose that match. Fed WON it. Rafa wasn’t less relentless he just got outplayed in big moments. I know it’s a shock to see given their past in grand slams but it happened. I know what I saw when I watched that match. Never was I thinking “what is Nadal doing” or “phew Roger is lucky that’s a gift from Rafa.” I just was in awe of the level being displayed by both, but especially Fed in crunch time.
Nope federal, I don’t feel it’s getting personal to me, rather it’s the Fed fans whom I feel were getting personal. You’re the one being rude in your languages, nothing to do with personal or not, just not right hence NNY’s response( and later my own response too!).
Its the same. Nadal’s fans feel Fed’s fans are personal and vice-versa. BTW, my poster goes by fedexal not federal.
fedexal, it’s the auto correct function of my mobile phone, do note that I only got it wrong once or twice having missed correcting this auto correct function!
Yeah, and shall we stop here, I’ll not want to stop responding, out of courtesy. We have to agree to disagree about some stuff; no point arguing any further.
There are live matches going on; I’m watching and typing at the same time. Do enjoy Rafa’s match vs Millman; Murray did enough to win relatively comfortably. Stan struggling a little bit at the moment.
Fedexal,
First please read site rules about language. You need to watch the inappropriate language. There are a lot of other words to use to characterize someone’s argument.
Second to both you and Benny, excuses or so-called rationalizationd are not exclusive to Rafa fans! If I heard it once, I heard it a hundred times about how dark it was at the 2008 Wimbledon final. Fed fans had s tough time dealing with that loss. I also remember reading about Fed having mono. Then there was his bad back. So please spare me this idea that somehow it’s exclusive to Rafa fans when it comes to discussing reasons for losses.
Next, I think the 2009 AO was so difficult for Fed and his fans because there were no excuses. Rafa had that marathon semifinal against Verdasco and then only one day’s rest. So there was every reason to question whether Rafa could even come out and play competitively. I will always believe that Rafa had to dig deep to find something special to win that match. It was one of the gutsiest things I have watched in a lifetime of watching this sport. That’s why Fed was so devastated by that loss.
I don’t really care to get too much into hypothetical discussions, but I do I understand that some people enjoy it.
There is no need to characterize anyone’s argument in a demeaning way. You can make your point without that.
When somebody starts posting facts to your friend luckystar, he starts thinking people are going personal to him. Earlier his problem was with Kenny.
Not trying to demean sorry. And I know it’s not exclusive to Rafans. That darkness excuse in the 2008 final is funny because they both played at such a high level til the end. That is dumb that some Fed fans would make excuses for that loss. That was just an insane match. I don’t know about that mono thing but Fed played well so if he wasn’t feeling well, doesn’t seem it affected him in that match.
And I think the point fedexal is trying to make and sort of what I’m saying as well is that Fed hit a bunch of winners in big moments in that fifth set and the stats prove that. I agree with luckystar it is pointless to keep debating about it. Let’s just enjoy Wimbledon day 1. No hard feelings and no need to respond to this lucky. I know you will feel obligated to ?
The whole AO final this year was on Fed’s racquet. It’s only when his level dropped that Nadal was competitive. Roger should have won it in 4th set. But no question that he just won it going away in the 5th. At that level there is nothing that version of Nadal could do, which is why Roger dominated their two matches on HC after that, even though neither played that well in Miami.
Now, having seen an improved version of Rafa during the clay season, I’m not so sure what would happen if they meet in the final. I am very doubtful that Nadal will make it that far, but if he does, and he keeps his level as high as it’s been recently, it would be a heck of a match. I still give Federer the edge, because I think he banished those mental demons decisively with his come-back win in Melbourne. I also think that mental confidence will carry over should he meet Novak in the SF.
Yes Joe, true about the AO final. In fact I never thought Rafa would progress that far in the draw. And, I knew Rafa was going to lose the final before they even started; it’s just that Rafa managed to level the match and forced a fifth set and even moved ahead in the fifth set that had given his fans some hope.
It’s not unlike AO2012 final, when I thought Rafa won’t be able to beat Djoko but after he went ahead in the fifth, hope did arise but it’s not meant to be for Rafa. Rafa was in reverse role in that FO2013 SF vs Djoko and this time he’s the one who won after Djoko was ahead in the fifth set.
In my previous post, I was replying to your claim that Rafa of 2017 was not clutch as compared to old Rafa. I gave you an example that how old Rafa has lost a set even with breakup to same man in 2009 final.
Now, you are saying , Rafa overhit his shot on BP in last game. I would say go watch the macth again as there was an ace and forcehand winner from Fed which saved the breakpoint. That never used to be case with Fed of old, but this Fed was super aggressive and thats how he won his match.
You can assume that we don’t see eye to eye, but you dont seem eye to eye with facts as well. You keep on posting false info and keep building on from there.
What false info? I just saw the last few games of the match again. Fed served very well but still faced BP; Rafa did overhit his shots to give Fed the advantage.
I really don’t know where you’re coming from. You mentioned about the AO2009, do you think Rafa was going to beat Fed easily and not lost his serve or lost a set or two? Does it mean that when Rafa lost a set or a game during the match he’s not being clutch?
To me its when it’s crucial in a match that we see the Rafa of old being clutch enough to get out of trouble, that’s what I meant for being ‘clutch’.
federal, I made the mistake by stating that Rafa overhit his shot on BP, it was he overhitting to give Fed a deuce or an adv; but that’s a mistake, not posting false info. Also, Rafa overhitting in that last game certainly didn’t help him, when Fed was nervous in that game!
When I referred to AUS 2009 final, I meant Rafa has lost to Fed with break up, checkout second set 09 final. 2017 fifth set was not the only occasion.
I find that the Fed-Djokovic situation is similar to that of Rafa in a way. Rafa lost so many in a row to him but knew he was playing so much better than him when they played in Madrid and beat him easy. Fed will be aware of his superior form heading into the semis and the confidence alone will be the key factor, like it was for Rafa in Madrid. Rafa woulda won that match even if Novak had played a bit better. Besides, Djokovic could crash out to Lopez in the fourth round or even DelPo/Kokkinakis in round three. So yeah we just need to wait and see if they get there.
Sure it was mental issue against Djokovic, age related. Even champions feel pressure when they are old and they don’t want to loose.Those are last chances to win slam, they think too much.
Yes that was another thing I think that was causing him to get tight in those finals. But in Melbourne, I think the fact that it was his comeback gave him less pressure even in the final. So he just went out there and played aggressive as he could and he probably learned from not doing that as much in the last few finals against Novak. I think the 18th was getting the monkey off the back for him and he won’t be playing that nervous in the early or later rounds.
This.
Third round:
Murray over Fognini in 4
Kyrgios over Pouille in 4
Tsonga over Querrey in 4
Wawrinka over Anderson in 5
Nadal over Khachanov in 5
Muller over Bedene in 4
Nishikori over Bautista Agut in 4
Cilic over Johnson in 3
Raonic over Rublev in 4
A. Zverev over Sock in 4
Dimitrov over Isner in 4
Federer over Tomic in 3
Pospisil over Tipsarevic in 5
Gasquet over Berdych in 4
Lopez over Monfils in 5
Djokovic over Del Potro in 4
Fourth round:
Murray over Kyrgios in 5
Wawrinka over Tsonga in 4
Muller over Nadal in 5
Cilic over Nishikori in 4
Raonic over A. Zverev in 5
Federer over Dimitrov in 3
Gasquet over Pospisil in 4
Djokovic over Lopez in 5
Benny-
As someone who favors Federer over other players, how do you feel about a potential Fed-Djokovic semi? Do you have concern about Fed’s level dropping when he faced Novak in big matches in recent years? Or are you not worried because Fed has obviously played at a much higher level than Novak this year? My instinct is to pick Fed to win that match if it happens, but I can’t help but have reservations given what happened in 2015-2016 when they played big matches… On the other hand, I think that if Fed were going to get another slam win over Novak, it would most likely be at either Wimbledon or US Open, and Fed/Novak’s difference in recent form has to give an edge to Fed. I just imagine a scenario where they meet in the semis, and Novak has played himself into good form over 5 matches… I just don’t know what to think right now haha! I think I’ll just have to see where their respective forms are at, IF and when they meet in the semis. I’m interested to hear your views on this, Benny.
Views on that matchup are up above under one of your comments
Ah, thanks. 🙂
Kevin, Fed should have beat Novak in both 2015 finals. He was the better player going into those matches (Novak hadn’t quite reached his early 2016 peak) but he choked, for age-related reasons. I think he made a significant breakthrough with his win over Rafa in Melbourne, and that -combined with Novak’s lower level – will translate into a clear Fed victory should they meet this year in the SF.
QF:
Murray over Wawrinka in 4
Cilic over Muller in 4
Federer over Raonic in 4
Djokovic over Gasquet in 4
SF:
Cilic over Murray in 4
Federer over Djokovic in 4
Final:
Federer over Cilic in 4
I really want you to be right about that top quarter Ricky lol. Maybe I’m underestimating Murray’s hip injury. I probably am. Well I still think Pouille has big mental block with Murray, but I have Kyrgios getting there. I think he is going to be healthy enough to fight through to fourth round on favorite surface. NK also seems to have so much respect for Murray and seems to have a bit of a mental block with him. Also I think Murray will pick it up at Wimby but not enough to stop the beast that is Cilic. I don’t see Murray losing to Stan on quarters if Murray is at home and has done well enough to get that far. I will say I am pleasantly surprised at how similar our bottom three quarters are. I swear I didn’t look at your picks after making mine only after I made them for the first round. You even got Pospisil in the second week too!! Let’s go Vasek!!
Also I think if it gets to a Stan vs Cilic semi, I think Stan is destined to at least make the finals and get people thinking about a career slam for the Stanimal. And if Stan got to the finals and played anyone other than Roger, I wouldn’t bet against a career slam for Stan before Murray, a situation in which I would argue that there is indefinitely a big 5 and cause a ruckus.
I believe in Djoko”s skills. Even though I am Rafa”s fan, I think Nole will win the tournament. Federer is Mr. Perfect, but I do not see his victory against Nole.
And I do not believe in a Muller”s victory against Rafa.
Thank you for your predictions…:)
https://forumul-pariorului-maniac.ro/biletul-zilei-din-tenis-cu-simona-halep-03-07-17/
I kinda feel a little hectic about how I only have one unseeded player in the second week. I feel like there are usually more than one unseeded players in the second week usually. I was tempted to pick Haase over Zverev in round two and maybe Raonic to lose early. I got like six unseeded guys in round three which is ok amount I guess but my only unseeded guy in the second week is Pospy. We’ll see I guess. I still feel fairly good about my picks. Better than the French that’s for sure.
Semis: Nadal vs Murray- Rafa wins in 4, Raonic vs Djokovic- Djokovic in 4. Final: Nadal wins in 3
I think i have to take my cow secretly to graze the grass at CC tonight in order to make a job easier for Rafa…Blink!blink!…now,that’s a good idea!!
Roger is the favorite and from the other half we could get either Murray or Warinka into the finals, however this analysis picks Cilic to make it to the finals, which I don’t agree with but it is not impossible … http://www.138mph.com/wimbledon-mens-draw-unraveled/
Murray beats Djokovic in 5 sets in the final.
Djokovic goes up 10 levels against Fed and his ability to take time away like genius in Melbourne won’t work against Djokovic like it did against Nadal.
Nadal can’t beat Murray on grass in 2017.
Djokovic will be tired after a very tough 5 setter in the semi.
Hmm .I don’t know about Rafa going out to Cilic.He’ playing some of the best tennis of his life,from fast hard court to clay.But he does have a poor record at Wimby lately.
But ,another Fedal final seems about due so I went for it.
Looks like It’s good gonna get blown out with a way he’s playing. What a waste of space
Kyrgios
Kyrgios is a clown god damn it.
Who’s Kyrgios?
Wawrinka is OUT.
Not his best surface, no surprise really after the shelllacking he got in the RG final. The man’s spirit is broken.
losing in the FO final has absolutely nothing to do with it
Yeah Stan is just bad on grass lol. And it’s the first round where is most vulnerable. Like I said in my daily picks, I thought he either loses to Medvedev or wins then makes a solid run.
My opinion stands, absolutely it has an affect on motivation. Being historic call average on grass but having his spirit broken equals an early exit. He might come good again at the US Open.
The RG final was the first grand slam final Stan has lost and he didn’t just lose, he got belted and its his favourite surface. For someone that thrives on motivation, it could put a major dent in his career. He’ll either bounce back at the US or Australian Open or it could be the end of him.
I have to agree with Ricky: I highly doubt that Stan’s spirit was broken by Rafa. Losing against Rafa at RG is something which will happen with a certainty of almost 100. Rafa lost there only twice after all since 2005. If Stan wasn’t able to take this loss like a man then he is neither Stan The Man nor the Stanimal 😉
Stan just isn’t very good on grass and might have been slightly hurt, too. And Medvedev can play on grass. That’s all there is to it. No need for deep soul searching…I’m sure Stan wasn’t deluding himself that his (rather short) row of undefeated slam finals would continue for sure – especially since Rafa’s row of being undefeated in RG finals was statistically much more impressive anyway.
Agree to disagree
Accepted 🙂 None of us can look into Stan’s competitive soul.
You can when you understand sport psychology and you’ve played competitive sport at a high level for many years. Couch experts, not so much.
JC, you are a couch expert compared to Wawrinka.
Wawrinka going out early at Wimbledon is the norm (regardless of French Open result), not the exception.
Can’t beat a troll.
Jim this loss honestly wouldn’t have surprised me even if Stan won the French. Or if he simply tested Nadal in the final.
JC, having competed at a high level doesn’t grant you necessarily any insights into another pro athlet’s mind. Every athlet ticks differently after all – especially if you don’t know him personally. And being an athlet yourself doesn’t automatically buy you empathy.
I think your theory concerning Wawrinka’s first round loss probably tells us more about yourself than about Wawrinka 😉
Jelousy and envy is a course. Why else the personal attacks every time I post on this site? Talk about an unprofessional web business.
Just let people excites their opinions and move on or are you too small for that?
SFs
Murray over Cilic in 5
Federer over Del Potro in 4
Final
Federer over Murray in 4
I agree with littlefoot’s take on Stan’s loss and the misguided reaction to it on the part of Jim Courier.
We don’t know these players and no one should presume to think that they know to any certainty what is behind any early round loss at a slam. Stan was dealing with a knee problem and that affected his ability to play well.
Calling someone who disagrees with you a troll, says more about you than anything else.
Hey, NNY, the whole issue isn’t important enough to get excited about – but thanks anyway 🙂
Stans not bad on grass , he’s basically a slow starter . And he was injured . The match a couple of years ago with Gasquet was a gem.
You right you right. He’s just a slow starter at all slams basically. Grass is just where he’s most vulnerable.
My opinion is Wawrinka is affected by his loss in the RG final. Accept other people’s opinion without the personal attacks.
Is this site run by teenagers or something?
The last time I checked, Ricky Dimon was not a teenager!
Calling someone a troll is a personal attack. If you can’t handle others disagreeing with you without resorting to personal insults, then you are the one with the problem.
Where’s Joe Smith? At least he could have a respectful discussion even when not in agreement