It will be a rematch of last year’s U.S. Open semifinals when Rafael Nadal and Juan Martin Del Potro meet again at the same stage on Friday for their third encounter in the last three Grand Slams and fourth in the last five majors.
Nadal has extended his lead in the head-to-head series to 11-5 with three consecutive victories and a 7-2 record in their last nine matches since losing three in a row to Del Potro back in 2009–including a 6-2, 6-2, 6-2 beatdown in another U.S. Open semifinal showdown. The world No. 1 prevailed 3-6, 6-0, 6-3, 6-2 in last summer’s semis in New York City, dominated 6-4, 6-1, 6-2 at the French Open this spring, and survived a 7-5, 6-7(7), 4-6, 6-4, 6-4 Wimbledon thriller.
A 17th chapter in this rivalry was almost postponed, as Nadal found himself on the brink of defeat against Dominic Thiem on Tuesday night (or more like Wednesday morning). The three-time U.S. Open champion outlasted Thiem 0-6, 6-4, 7-5, 6-7(4), 7-6(5) in a four-hour and 49-minute battle that ended at 2:04 a.m. Nadal preceded that triumph with wins over David Ferrer, Vasek Pospisil, Karen Khachanov, and Nikoloz Basilashvili, dropping one set to both Khachanov and Basilashvili.
Del Potro enjoyed much smoother sailing to the semis. The 2009 U.S. Open winner smoked Donald Young, Denis Kudla, Fernando Verdasco, and Borna Coric in straight sets before getting the best of John Isner 6-7(5), 6-3, 7-6(4), 6-2 on Tuesday afternoon. Del Potro is now an amazing 42-10 this season and well on his way to his first Nitto ATP Finals appearance since 2013.
“It could be another big battle, as the Wimbledon match was,” the third-seeded Argentine said of Friday’s upcoming date with Nadal. “I like to play always [against] the No. 1 of the world, doesn’t matter the tournament or the conditions or the weather. I just have the chance to play the greatest on this sport, and it’s amazing for me.”
Nadal also relishes the challenge.
“(It) will be a big challenge,” the Spaniard assured. “(It) a [matchup in which] we know each other very well. I know he’s playing well. I know that I will have to play at my highest level to keep having chances of success.
(It) will be a very tough one. In Wimbledon he’s a great player; he’s a great player on grass. He’s a great player everywhere. But the challenge of playing him on hard, of course, is even higher for me personally than playing against him on clay–like happened in Roland Garros. Even [there] I had a very lucky first set.”
Even on hard courts, though, this has become a favorable matchup for Nadal–especially given his current form (45-3 overall this year, 10-0 on hard courts this summer). The top seed’s relentless topspin works well to the Del Potro backhand, which is a much-improved shot but still vulnerable. Nadal’s key weapon against the world No. 3 is his down-the-line forehand, as Del Potro frequently runs around his backhand and leaves the deuce side of the court wide open. Nadal was hitting that shot exceptionally well throughout the marathon against Thiem.
Pick: Nadal in 4
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#GOAT!!!
I have some interesting news off BG which is that he reckons as the weather cools the court is going to play faster. He says that the humidity has slowed the court down and it will get faster as it cools down..Also that it usually plays faster in the second week. What faster means is somewhat unclear!!
Rafa actually prefers somewhat faster courts. High bounces also favor him, although not so much vs JMDP since he’s tall. Less heat/humidity is going to help everyone so I think that’s pretty much a wash.
Yes I think Rafa prefers slightly faster courts as well. Don’t think it helps Nole for the court to play faster as the slower it is the better for him in terms of ros.
How long has rafa spent on court? He surely has spent the most time on court of the remaining 4 with Nole having spent the least time??!
Rafa spent the most time on court, over 15 hours and 54 min, Djokovic second most, 12h 46 min, Nishikori 3rd, 12 h 42 min, and Delpo spent the least time on court, 12 h 15 min.
Really? Nole spent nearly 13 hours on court!! Am gobsmacked! How did he manage that!!??
Matches with Fuscofics, Sandgren and Milman lasted close to 3 hours, Matches with Gasquet and Sousa lasted 2 hours. Matches with Fuscofics, Sandgren were 4 setters so it’s not a surprise they were long, match with Milman had a lot of long games so i think that’s why it was nearly 3 h
Matches with Fuscofics, Sandgren and Milman lasted close to 3 hours, Matches with Gasquet and Sousa lasted 2 hours. Matches with Fuscofics, Sandgren were 4 setters so it’s not a surprise they were long, match with Milman had a lot of long games so i think that’s why it was nearly 3 h
By playing nobodies. That’s how he’s done it.
As long as it is a long grinding 5 setter i don’t care who wins. A prospect of Nadal running 10-12 miles on a night is satisfying for me. Need to admit that heart says Delpo.
Hmm. Many expect a Nadal – Djoko final. That’s 50-50. At least one will probably lose in the semi.
Joko will left the trophy no matter who he plays
Normally I’d say that Rafa is a lock for the final since he usually wins against Delpo. But he has accumulated an awful lot of mileage already while Delpo seems to be in splendit form. I still think that Rafa will edge out a win because his mental fortitude.
Djoker has to be the favorite for the title, though. But he hasn’t been tested so far since he avoided all potentially challenging opponents. And he didn’t display a dazzling form so far. But I think that his overall chances for lifting the trophy are very good. Rafa may have done himself in by not closing out his matches sooner.
Rafa always makes life difficult for himself! I don’t understand why he has to get nervous so often, even on clay at RG! All I heard from his coach after the matches where Rafa had to work so hard to win, was ‘he was nervous before or during the match’ and ‘he’s human too’!
Don’t tell me other players are/were not nervous before an important match, but, I didn’t see a ‘nervous’ Delpo, or Schwartzman, or Thiem played badly, but rather, they just went out there to play as aggressively as possible vs Rafa for example. They somehow played their best tennis against Rafa, whether they’re nervous or not; Rafa OTOH was often nervous and then couldn’t play his best tennis!
It’s always when his back is against the wall, that he starts to fight hard to try to turn things around. I mean why when you are in trouble then you bring out your best tennis? Why can’t you play better from the get go and so finishes the job quicker and saves all those precious energy??
I simply don’t understand Rafa’s mentality, what is he so nervous about? Is it because he’s lacking in self confidence, thinking that his game is not good enough? Is he a worrier, who worries too much, worries about losing the match, worries about injuries, worries about not defending his titles?
I like Rafa’s game when he plays it like a chess game, thinking all the time how to solve problems, how to out think or out smart his opponents, how to spot weaknesses in his opponents and attacks them, etc and etc. What I dislike is his lack of self confidence, thinking that the other players are so good and so tough to beat, showing them too much respect, so much so that he gets nervous going out there to play his every match!
The reason is that Rafa’s main strength, despite having one of the best forehands ever, is actually his consistency. Rafa has never been the guy to go out there and just blast winners right from the get go. He feels his way into the match and uses his athleticism and defense to frustrate opponents. Then when the opponents least expect, he comes at them with that ferocious forehand. But Rafa’s go to pace isn’t as big, it’s just unbelievably consistent. So his version of nerves (getting the ball too short) is different from someone like Del Po (overhitting and missing).
You’re right ,its his topspin that gives him that consistency ,I think. In long rallies with an equally big hitter like Delpo, its unusual for him to make an error first.
Well said, Luckystar. This is his MAIN problem with Djoker.
His main problem with Djokovic is that the Serb is ultra-consistent. Nadal usually does not wins matches by hitting a hundred winners. He loves long rallies in which he gradually increases pressure until his opponent makes a mistake (missing a shot, throwing it short, going to the net when he shouldn’t have,…). Djokovic just doesn’t make mistakes. You have to win him each and every point (sometimes two or three times) and this does not really suit Rafa’s more defensive approach.
This surface favors Rafa waaay too much for me to realistically see Del Po winning this. Del Po will struggle to put points away, and Rafa will get everything back.
If Del Po couldn’t quite finish off Rafa at Wimbledon, then I can’t imagine it on this quicksand court. Also, on a higher bouncing and slow court like this one, it just makes Del Po’s weak backhand even more weak. His slice won’t be as effective.
Even though Rafa has had a couple long matches, he will have had 2 days of rest. Literally every single aspect of his match favors Rafa. This match is absolutely on his racquet, even more than usual!
Rafa’s unbelievable defensive prowess is really put on display on this court. And NOBODY, except a full-flight Novak, can get through Rafa’s defense on a court like this in best-of-5. It just doesn’t happen.
Sure, Del Po can win this if Rafa has a really bad night and Del Po plays his best match ever. But what are the odds of those two things happening? Way too low for me…
Rafa in 4.
Well,Thiem almost made it past Rafa! If he hadn’t made this last mistake …
still probably would have lost….
the last point wasn’t the story, anyway
👍Agreed, Ricky.
Kev, great analysis but I don’t think either of those last two things you listed need to happen for Del Potro to win.
Rafa opponents know the only way to beat Rafa is to break his amazing defense by hitting hard and fast, being aggressive from the get go and taking the ball early! They all go out with all guns blazing causing Rafa to have to fight hard for every point right from the start. Rafa however tends to start slowly and his serve doesn’t come as a savior so he naturally gets nervous about losing his serve. Then early in the second set Rafa starts to “boil” while his opponents start feeling consequences of trying to outhit Nadal. Those who can endure the physical war with Rafa without losing consistency and without dropping in level (for example; Novak) can beat Rafa in the best of 5! Adding the heat and humidity and it makes it even more difficult for them to stay in the rallies with Rafa and beat him! Wearing down his opponents is the part of Rafa’s game plan. This is why I think Rafa’s fitness is simply amazing!
Having said this, I think Delpo as well will be one of those Rafa’s victims. While Rafa can drop a set due to Delpo’s hard hitting and his own nerves, I expect Rafa to raise his level and fight back in style. Hope for Rafa’s serve to work as it would ensure him some free points, but I do not think there will be many free points for Rafa..As many times before Rafa will have to earn his victory in a hard fought match….
Dominik is young and fit and was able to counter attack Rafa! I bet he could barely walk the morning after the match.,,Delpo is not of that caliber. He will want shorter points to avoid grueling match. Rafa’s FH will be the key as Delpo’s bh although improved is his weakness…
Vamos Champ!
nats,
Great analysis! I think we know the way Rafa rolls when it comes to these big Bof5 set matches. Rafa does take time to get going and that is when his opponents want to strike. I am still amazed at how Rafa could shake off that bagel in the first set with Thiem. I would love to see Rafa get his serve working more effectively, but I do think he will once again have to work for it.
I think his FDL will be key in that match. I am just glad that we have two days to record vet from the last one!
Fasten your seat belts!
I think we need the 2 day recovery as much as Rafa!
We have two days to recover from the last one! *
Rafa on the rare occasions could come out all guns blazing – typical example is of course his FO2017! In every match during FO2017, he came out all guns blazing and we saw how scarily effective that was.
Another few examples are : USO2010; USO2013; FO2008; MC2010; Wimbledon 2008. In each of these tournaments, he hardly lost a set, all the way until the final. He was also playing more offensive tennis throughout.
He’s capable of such tennis, it’s just that he rarely could do so; when his serve isn’t working the way he (and us) hope for, that’s even more difficult to do so. However, I’ve to say, he being so nervous is getting from bad to worse, even when he’s the no.1 player and leading the race now; Moya and his team are having a hard time helping him overcoming the problem, I feel.
Rafa on clay isn’t the same as Rafa on HCs. Rafa of 10 years ago on HCs isn’t the same as Rafa of 2018! Injuries took a toll, disappointing losses of the matches he was supposed to win remain somewhere in the back of his mind, too much respect for his opponents, feeling pressure, doubts and confidence issues, and of course age, all contributing to Rafa being nervous (read: tentative or less confident) at some stage of the match. I still think Rafa played key points better than his opponents.
Also, his opponents using up their energy to fight him early in the match opens up the opportunity for Rafa to fight them back, so be it.
I would love Rafa to be more aggressive from the start but his serve deserts him more than often and he is hardly in advantage when serving. However, Rafa is still capable to find a great serve in clutch moments which is good news!
I do expect Rafa to be nervous against Delpo when Delpo starts firing aces and hitting killer forehand but I also expect Rafa to implement his tennis brain and overcome all hurdles…the victory over Thiem will definitely help…
Come on, 2013 wasn’t ten years ago! Last year at Beijing and Shanghai, Rafa was also playing more offensively on the HCs; he wasn’t grinding but played aggressive tennis to win Beijing and reached final of Shanghai.
I do acknowledge that it’s his serve that’s the major problem this year, and he serves particularly badly after breaking an oppinent’s serve, that’s something very irritating. I mean he could hold serve even serving poorly but after breaking serve, he lost his own serve! What’s about that? It happened so often it’s ridiculous!
Nadal’s had too tough a draw to be a firm favorite for this match. Bookies want you to snap up the 1.65. Odds should be 1.70 Del Potro / 2.20 Nadal but bookies know they’ll get a similar amount of wagers from punters at 1.65.
Del Potro has only dropped a set against Isner who was a very strong form line and the one that really stood out for me was the straight sets win against Coric. Del Potro can go all the way this year.
Del Potro in 5, maybe 4.
Coric?? Seriously?
Yep, Medvedev was a strong form line and Coric took care of him in straight.
Del Potro only lost 8 games. He is primed for this.
I hope Rafa proves me wrong but, somehow I don’t see him getting past DelPo this time round.
Why ? Mileage clocked ?
Went with the (favourite?) Rafa pre-tournament and I’m sticking with that.
I would like to see Delpo somehow beat Rafa & Djokovic to win this slam (hell, I’d love to see him win a 2nd slam anywhere) but I can’t quite see it happening. If he did pull this rabbit out of the hat, it’d be two miracle USO wins to his name.
On this court the ball will sit up pretty nicely for both players, but Delpo’s gonna struggle to end the points quickly enough. He may make it as competitive as the Wimby encounter, but like most, I expect Rafa will eventually wear the lumbering Argentine down over 4 or 5 tough sets.
Djokovic is surely going to have to have a bad day at the office for Nishikori to get past him again. It’s like watching the 1.0 version play the 3.0 – what advantage can Nishikori really have? I guess it’s not impossible, this Novak is not *quite* as imposing as he used to be, maybe there’s some mental fragility lurking in the back of his mind. If Nishikori did get through it’d probably make for a lousy final for the neutrals, I could see Rafa (or less likely Delpo) really toweling the poor guy up.
uso courts are slowass custom made for dull. given dull’s miraculous recovery and running capabilities it is almost impossible to hit trough dull, so delpo has a high order task ahead of him.
i read courts were made slower for americans to go deep down
Keep your mind sharp and focused, remain confident, be strong and show your warrior spirit, Rafa!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmguEfWXsAUCd_G.jpg
moonballer is moonballing. what is new eh.
I guess this is it. Rafa is injured and he suddenly drops in level and loses his serve… I am so sad…
Why so negative 😂 It’s your guy. Why would you write him off like that? Sometimes I feel like some of you Rafans just put down Rafa’s chances because you don’t want to jinx him 😂
You have a point there BG. The biggest culprit of that tactic was Sanju. It used to drive me mad in the old days.
S**t ☹️☹️☹️
So lucky! Breaks serve again. Hope not throwing away another service game with poor play.
Calm down guys!….Rafa is still very much ‘alive & kickin’!…Wooohoooo!!….Now,finish it with flourish u hear??
Wooohohohoho!!….That banana shot!!..I loved it!!…Wooohooo!!
Let’s just try to see what happens here. Rafa did break back so it’s not like Delpo has been invulnerable. He’s fighting.
Nope!Heh heh….oh well….There’s still time!…Hope Rafa more aggressive in the next sets & use his chances wisely….
Lost first set 🙁
Rafa just can’t capitulates the chances given!Against the big server & tough opponent like DelPo,we can’t afford to waste the chances,coz it won’t come often…
It’s tough to see Rafa lose that TB. I just am not sure how much the knee is hurting him. So he has to play catch up.
Rafa was better player in the first set and managed to lose it with his sudden tentativeness…more winners, less errors and LOST the set.,.so unlucky!!!
Vamos Champ!
no, Delpo should have won it before TB
delpo choked serving out for the set but managed to get the TB. can he keep it up?
One set of tennis takes one hour and ten minutes; Rafa is not going to win playing like this. They’re basically grinding out there.
I don’t think Rafa is the better player in the first set; they’re about the same but Delpo is the more offensive of the two.
Agree and has better serve too. he is serving first so rafa has to be careful in last game if he does not break him before. should not be repeat of 3rd set at wimby
I speak about stats which is officially published, all in Rafa’s favor in the first set.,, he even had an ace and Delpo didn’t.,, If Rafa was not injured he would have won the first set.,,
Rafa will most likely retire…he is not even running on every ball.,,he is obviously in pain..,
If Delpo wins this, I hope it’s Kei in the final. I give Delpo less than 10% chances of beating Djoko; he’s too buddy buddy with Djoko and will lose his killer instinct when facing Djoko.
I think it’ll be three TB sets for Delpo here in this match.
Delpo needs to employ the drop shot more, or at least a bit of variety. Nadal is so far back there that he’s absorbing most of the pace delpo is throwing at him.
Big save of serve here for Rafa after facing two break points.
Hohoho!….15 40 with a heartbreaking winners from delPo…But Rafa is Rafa!….Not budge by it & hold his serve beautifully!
Just hope Rafa play creatively & creates more winners instead of waiting DelPo makes mistakes…
Yes, Nadal’s best chance here is to play aggressively and outside his comfort zone. He can’t really hurt delpo from so far back, and eventually Juan Martin just winds up for one of those FHs. Also, JM is starting to come in to net a bit, which will further help his cause.
Have not been watching the match but the stats are close in every category but Rafa has converted more and saved more bps.
At this rate it should go 5 sets.
You think he can last five sets with knee issue??
he won’t get to a 3rd set
Exactly Ricky!
I don’t know, Lucky. I only have livescore and I didn’t realize that Rafa took a MTO until now when they posted their little sign for “interruption, Nadal MTO
Hope he’s going to be okay to compete! But I see Delpo is up 4-1.
Rafa is not going to survive this when his knee has to be taped up. He’s basically doing all the running, defending the majority of the time, that’s the problem of not having a good serve to help you.
I think his knee is giving him problem all these while hence he’s serving poorly since coming back to play the clay season. I think after the DC, he should just take the rest of the season off, he’s not doing his knee any good if he keeps on playing.
Maybe he should pull out of the DC because, with the Spanish lineup, I can see him playing 3 matches. It’s sad that, yet again, his body is letting him down. Maybe he should not train so much to give his body time to rest.
I think he will pull out of DC. Cant play with this knee.
OK,but don’t take away from Delpo’s achievement, with all the injury problems he’s overcome , if he wins this .
Hmmh!….I guess,this is it!…Some of us already can see this coming even after Basilashvili’s match….Oh well…
Just yesterday i read Moya said Rafa’s knee is okay..
i see excuses are flying around already, sigh. and djokovic is automatically getting some hate.
He should let his knee recover and then train to improve his serve! He’s basically playing attritional tennis on the HCs so far; a regression from last year when he’s able to be more aggressive.
Rafa should just retire after losing the second set; just go back and rest!
It takes a lot for Rafa to take an MTO. I can’t helo but feel this is the end of the road for him this season.
This looks to be delpo in 3
This is hard to see. The knee again. I guess he needs to stop and rest and take care of the knee. I hate to see this happening to him.
Rafa should retire from this match, he’s obviously not fit. He usually plays matches when he is clearly struggling with injury and no one ever remembers that he wasn’t fit but would go on talking about the loss for years like the AO 2014 when he lost to Stan with a back injury.
Classic Rafafan comment, Rafa only ever loses when he’s injured.
Rafa, please retire from this match. No one will thank you for being brave and not wanting to let the crowd down.
Vamos!
He was a hero in 2009 US Open , losing 62 62 62 with a 6mm abdominal injury.
Cant see why he even bothers to play when not 100% …
Can’t believe some of you! Don’t you see he is limping? He will definitely retire after this set is over..,
Rafa always fights to the end. He never gives up no matter what. He has to be totally incapable of playing for him to give up.
Sorry for Rafa. Of course Rafa’s injury must be very serious to retire in the SF of USO.
Delpo wouldn’t want to win like this. But Delpo has suffered many, many disappointments and many years lost due to injury.
I don’t want Rafa to do any more damage to the knee. This is what I was afraid of – that despite two days rest it would act up in this match.
I do not think he has had this for a while. The way he played at Wimbledon showed that he was moving well. He looked okay in Toronto.
The problem is that he has to work so hard because his serve is not good enough. He is st a point where he has to be aggressive and win matches as efficiently as possible.
These marathon slugfests are killing his knee..
If by some miracle he wins this match, he’ll be hampered in the final whoever he plays.
Del Potro v Djokovic will be an immense final.
Very hard to pick the winner I reckon 50/50.
I thought he was going to shake hands when he took his headband off.
Not Rafa’s day fellow Rafans.
Rafa ran too many miles falling behind one too many.
Still the GOAT.
Sad to see Rafa injured again but he’s a true champ.
Happy for any of the three remaining players to win the title. All deserving.
I’m glad he’s given up. No one appreciates his effort when he plays whilst injured.
Get well soon, Rafa!
Probably leaning towards Del Potro. I just think the season he’s had with his losses along the way has set him up for another US Open title.
the moonballer is done! a victim of his own play style. he needs to readjust his approach to the game otherwise he won’t be able to play tennis for much longer.
Hate to admit but I actually agree with you! Rafa’s style of tennis is taxing on his body and unlike Fed he will not endure much longer playing like this. But I also know it’s impossible for Rafa to reinvent his style and suddenly become s&v player…anyway, too late for drastic changes of style…
Vamos Rafa no matter what!
Nats, actually Rafa had started playing more aggressive tennis last year. It need not be S&V to be aggressive, Rafa was moving to the net, stepping inside the court often, hence he’s able to win at Beijing and reached final of Shanghai fast HC, not forgetting how he won at RG.
It’s after his hip injury this year that I feel also affected his serve; and so he wasn’t able to be aggressive without a good serve to start with, unlike last year. It’s even worse now with knee issue. He has to rest and let that knee recovers, improves his serve again.
He has to rely more on his offense rather than being defensive and doing all the running. I know he loves to run, but he should know his own body better, that doing all the running would cause him, his knees in particular, all sorts of injury issues. If he keeps playing attritional tennis, not listening to his own body, he’s going to end his career soon.
How much running he had to do even on grass at Wimbledon! His matches were always long, if only he had a better serve, he would at least save his knees from too much running. It all added up and finally his knee gave way again.
It’s wise to retire, no point playing another set like that. Good for Delpo too, save him some much needed energy for the final.
In that sentence, asterisk against Delpo , if he does manage to win the final.
Hope Delpo wins the title now.
Yeah. After all of his injuries, I’d love to see him do it but Nole has the upper hand out of the final three.
Vamos Delpo!!!
Will be happy for Nole and Nishi if they win too.
Rafa played great in the first set. I think he was the better player but his serve wasn’t great because his knee was bothering him. I wish he had retired against Stan in AO 2014 because everyone has forgotten that he had back problem in that match.
Agreed. Rafa was definitely the better player in the first set and he would have won if there were no injuries.
I also love Delpo, he is such a nice guy, but I don’t give him much chance against Novak unless he raises his level, plays on adrenaline and cuts on those unforced errors…
I think Rafa will be skipping DC and Asian swing as well.
I think Rafa will skip everything until the indoor season. I think he may rest for two months and comes back to play Paris Masters and WTF.
That long match v Thiem was too much – maybe? Rafa also had lost sets to Khachanov and Basilashvili.
For Federer it was the muscular younger Australian. Millman is a bleeping wall. Nole won in 3 sets but those were incredibly hard fought rallies. Nole appeared wiped-out, depleted from the conditions – and as thin as I’ve seen him. He looked better when he started Cincy.
It’s not a given that Nole will beat Kei. But that win over Cilic was tough. Depends on who has the better recovery.
As I said before I would be so happy for Delpo if he won another USO! Sure I want Nole to get #14 but may the best man win! Kei getting his first GS – I always hope for that.
Feels kinda like Delpo’s time though. 😀
Great win for Delpo; very happy for him. First set was very close, but I feel like it was a bit of role reversal for Nadal. He was the better player on paper (more winners, less UE) but delpo was better in the big points. That is usually what one says about Rafa.
I suspect I speak for a lot of non-Nadal fans when I say I don’t know what to make of the retirement. Of course it’s his body, he knows it best. but I honestly don’t believe that he would have retired when he did had he won the first set. And that’s a problem, imo.
Joe Smith,
I could just scream when I read this utter crap. Just because Fed hasn’t won lately and got knocked out here, does not make it necessary to one more time trot out there insidious conspiracy theories. The idea that if Rafa had won the first set his knee pain would have magically gone away, is just stupid.
You just cannot leave it alone. Oh, I don’t know what to make of the retirement! Spare me! I do! Rafa would have to be in unbearable pain to quit.
You know nothing.
Play such a physical game, expect injury to catch up with you.
Do you think Rafa would have retired with the score even at one set apiece?
No. Obviously he was struggling with something, once he went two sets down, long way back.If it had been a best of three match, he would have carried on for sure and probably won on a tiebreak.
Sorry, my question was meant for NNY. But I agree with your analysis, Al.
I didn’t see all the first set, but was surprised to see Rafa lost it on a tiebreak, he looked the better player. So, once he went down a break in the second, any niggling injury became more prevalent to his comeback over five.
No doubt, Al, but that doesn’t mean that retiring is acceptable. Again, the pertinent question is whether Rafa would have retired had he been even in the match, as opposed to behind. If not, then imo he shouldn’t have retired when he did. That’s not being a fierce competitor; it’s being the opposite.
Has Nadal ever retired in a match when leading or tied?
There are far more instances of him NOT retiring when he was down in the game. If he wanted to retire with an injury, there would not be a more opportune moment than the 6-0 lost set against thiem. You know what speaks faking an injury when you do not even take the court against nole and show up a week later for davis cup.
I know you are trying to rub it in and i am taking the bait but what you speculate is absolute rubbish especially when rafa has fried bigger fishes after being down a set
I am not trying to rub anything in. I think Rafa had a great tournament and played some great tennis.
I have said many times that Federer was wrong not to take the court against Nole at the WTF. (Why does everything I say about Nadal have to be about Federer somehow?)
I’ll ask you the same question. Do you think Rafa would have retired had the match been 1 set apiece? Why do you think he has never retired except when he’s been behind?
Absolutely silly logic.. there are far fewer isntances of him behind if he is healthy and playing well. If he is injured it makes sense to not over play and aggravate the injury than to underplay and taking on the wrath of the spectators like at the aussie open.
He retired after two rounds at the french open when i would say he was ahead because he had routed the opponents in the first two rounds.
If it is a conditioning issue it can be fought through. If the knee gives up, do you want him to fight through a lost cause. You are talking about rafa here, not kyrgios. He does not do retirements unless ne essary and certainly not in a gs.
You didn’t answer the question. He easily could have won the first set, and his physical condition would be exactly the same at the end of two sets. I doubt he would have retired in those circumstances, and I suspect you agree.
And your reasoning is exactly why people ridicule Nadal fans for effectively thinking that if Rafa loses it must be because he was injured: a healthy Nadal won’t lose.
Joe, it is quite a hypothetical question. How do u know he would not have ? With the benefit of hindsight we know he did not when he was behing against thiem and karen when as per u, he would have..
As far as ridiculing goes, in the past few months the number of instances u have picked against rafa and the reasons that you gave are subject to a whole lot more ridicule in my opinion
Of course I don’t know that Nadal wouldn’t have retired even tied. But I think it’s striking that (as far as I’m aware) he never has.
Perhaps you can appreciate why it would rub some people the wrong way. It makes it seem as if Nadal will never retire if he thinks he can win the match. Imo, that’s not in the proper spirit of what retirement is about: retiring from a match is supposed to do with a player’s physical conditioning, not with how likely he is to win the match.
Wrong again, Joe. He knew he is not winning mebourne 14 or rotterdam 09. He played and completed it which u conveniently ignored.
I didn’t say Nadal always retires when he thinks he can’t win. Obviously he doesn’t.
Very hard to compare Rafa’s condition today to AO 2014 (I’m not familiar with the Rotterdam tourney you mention). In that one he should have retired when he could barely hit the serve over the net.
Yeah absolutey, you are the authority on what constitutes a valid retirement or otherwise. By the way of all the retirements, please tell me of instances where a player has retired while being ahead?
I have no idea how often a player has retired when he is ahead. I suspect you’re right that it’s extremely rare.
Here is perhaps a case where Federer deserves credit for never having retired from a match in 20 years.
Rafa did retire against Hewitt at Queens club one year, when he won the first set and then lost the second; so he did retire when both players were leveled at the score. He also retired against Dzumhur at Miami, after winning the first set, lost the second and was down 0-3 in the third, suffering from heat stroke. So, it all depended on the circumstances and how badly/painful he felt at the time.
Fed didn’t retire but he did withdraw from matches. He knew he couldn’t play or couldn’t win, so he withdrew. He also withdrew from playing tournaments he’s scheduled to play.He just handled things differently.
Rafa OTOH would go out there to try, and only retired when he really couldn’t continue.
Vmk1,
Thanks for some common sense and reason. I said what I had to say and then left because I would have said some things that would have been worse.
IIt just boggles the kind that this trash talk goes on all the time with Rafa. I am glad that he did not risk more serious injury by continuing to play. He said in his presser that he felt a pain with a certain movement this time. He obviously could not be competitive.,
Whatever he does will be picked apart by some Fed fans when can’t handle their guy’s problems. So they have to go after Rafa.
It’s like an obsessive sickness. I hope Rafa recovers soon. That’s all I care about.
Haters gonna hate.
It just boggles the mind.*
What kind of question is that? Rafa started having knee problems in the first set & called a trainer. He lost a tb. He played badly in the 2nd set and then called a halt. He’s more likely to retire these days when he’s injured and knows he can’t win. Maybe with age comes wisdom. In the 2009 Rotterdam final vs Murray he finished the match even though he couldn’t move and he and everyone in the stadium knew it was hopeless. 2010 AO quarters vs Murray he retired down 2 sets and 0-3 at Toni’s urging and absolutely hated doing it. 2011 Rafa pulled a groin muscle in the AO quarters, 1st set vs Ferrer, but finished a hopeless loss despite Toni screaming at him to retire. He retired in the 5th set vs Marin in AO this year but in last year’s WTF he finished the match v Goffin even though he knew he was pulling out of the tournament either way “because it was the worst he’d ever felt on a tennis court and he didn’t deserve that”.
My guess, fwiw, is that he retired today because he’s hoping to recover in time for Davis Cup in a few days. If he’d won the first set, I don’t know. Watch his presser. I expect he’ll be asked about it.
Quite a victim of confirmation bias, our man Joe is, Ramara
Ramara, if you’re right then Rafa’s retirement today is comparable to Fed’s declining to take the court against Novak in WTF (both having to do with wanting to play DC). Again if you’re right, I don’t agree with either decision.
I watched the presser. I think I was wrong. The subject did not come up but I’ll be very surprised if Rafa plays DC this weekend. He did say that his problem is tendonitis but the pain was the result of a “bad movement” which made it worse than his normal tendonitis. It happened early in the first set.
Fed totally avoided the WTF final, whilst Rafa was out there competing in this SF, and Joe is saying they’re comparable??
Rafa injured his knee during the match, then he retired, if he hadn’t injured his knee, you think he would retire, just because he wanted to concentrate on DC??
What are you talking about??
Rafa won’t play DC when his knee isn’t well. He won’t force himself to play for his country when he’s likely to lose. He would rather his healthy teammates do the job, for they may have better chances of winning the matches with fit and healthy body.
Anyway, Spain is not going to win the tie, PCB, Agut are not in top form; the doubles of Feli and Granollers will not have easy time vs Mahut/Herbert. Now that Rafa is injured, it’s even worse.
Spain not having the best team this year, a pity, as it’s the last time they’re playing in the old DC format, will be meaningful to win it for the last time. Of course other DC teams would think the same too.
A very nice article on Nadals competitiveness and perspective towards wins and losses.
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018/09/rafael-nadal-2018-us-open-semifinal-juan-martin-del-potro/76806/
If you are saying he is not a fierce competitor. its clear you are just not a fan. Its a matter of liking someone vs not. A lot of us Rafa fans are well aware of his unyielding spirit as well as his limitations with injuries. He has lost a 188 matches and we arent saying everytime he loses he is injured. Its a statement often non Rafans make. No we are just saying he ended up being injured in a significant amount of critical matches he could have won. “Could have” not saying “Should have”
Rafa says the same thing. its not about winning or losing its about fighting. Yes he has retired in some, carried on in some to the finish but it was never about only winning or losing. He says he knew what happened and tried to either cope with it or see if it improves somehow. We can sit here and be judgemental and for a guy that grinds 5 + hours and overcomes extreme exhaustion. choosing for himself to say ok this is just not going to work today isnnt a bad thing. Retiring less than say 10( I am assuming) in almost 1000 matches doesnt make him any less of the fiercest competitor. its not for no reason his peers caled him the best fighter in the game.
Again as fans, we all know Rafa and Fed (and including Djok) are at the later end of their careers and yes as a Rafanatic I would want him to atleast scrape through and equal Fed’s 20 and yes I wouldnt want Djokovic to close in too easy. Its just a fans mindset.
I am sure the match with Thiem did not help. While I was happy to see him pull out the win initially, I asked myself – at what cost?
ESPN showed Rafa’s presser. He really looked gutted. He came here hoping to defend his title. You could see it in his eyes. And what a show he put on! Thrilling the crowd with his comebacks. But it came at a cost.
I hope he can take care If the knee and recover. The ovation he got when he walked off the court and said good bye, brought me to tears! My fellow New Yorkers love him and appreciate what he has given us.
There is simply no one else like him.
I’m so bummed for Rafa that he had to retire. He had to retire from both hardcourts slams this season.
Given the nature of the Ashe court and all the intense defending he had to do in the tournament, the continuous oppressive conditions, and his recent history of knee problems, I can’t say that I wasn’t concerned for Rafa’s risk of injury and retirement.
I wasn’t available to watch the match. Was it one specific moment where the injury occurred? Or does it seem like it was building over time?
It’s been building over the course of the tournament. Rafa called the trainer and had tape put on during the first set. Some games later he’d pulled the tape off, but called the trainer again early (I think) in the 2nd set and got a heavier tape job. The belief so far is that it’s tendinitis, not an acute injury.
Uso should speed up the courts. having sandpaper for the surface just destroys the game.
+1
It also goes against everything the game is trying to accomplish with speeding up the game, make attacking play more rewarding, etc. They have also been very inconsistent with using the shot clock.
+1
i second that.
Absolutely right. It also goes against everything the game is trying to accomplish with speeding up the game, make attacking play more rewarding, etc. They have also been very inconsistent with using the shot clock.
get well soon rafa
Rafa should just go rest and recover, and for goodness sake, go and improve the serve. When his serve was working fine last year, he was doing well and not having to grind to win his matches, at least not that many. This year, he practically grind through those tough matches at Wimbledon (vs Delpo and Djoko)and USO (all his matches from R3-QF); at AO too vs Schwartzman and then Cilic. Without a good enough serve, it’s hard for him to play more offensive tennis and shortens points, and that means he has to grind more often, leading to injuries. With injuries he couldn’t train well, his serve will suffer, his BH will suffer (I notice he hardly hit his BH CC this USO, probably couldn’t put more weight on his knee for fear of injuries). his game will suffer and he ends up playing grinding tennis all over again. It’s a vicious cycle; he needs to get out of it quick.
We’ll see. But I think that pulling the plug on his 2016 season was one of the best decisions he ever made. It gave him the training time he needed to improve his serve and backhand and get his forehand working again.
I’d love to see DelPo win the final, but it might be better for Rafa if Djoko does. Maybe he’d be less inclined to fight for the year end #1.
Well if Delpo wins, Delpo may also become no.1 late on! Do you know their race points aren’t that much differences?
Rafa has 7460 race points and he’s most likely to skip Beijing and Shanghai. Delpo now has 3710 race points, if he wins USO he will leapfrog both Fed and Djoko to become no.2 in the race. He’ll have 5710 race points, Djoko would then have 5645 race points and Fed 4800.
So, both Delpo and Djoko will have chances to become no.1, and it depends on how well they do during the Asian swing and indoor HC swing. As for Rafa, if he recovers and trains well, he may still retain his no.1 if he plays and wins one or two of the indoor HC titles. The Vienna tournament director may get his wish of having Rafa to play there, if Rafa skips the Asian swing totally.
As I said, Rafa needs his good serve; and if he’s well rested and recovered, while others are battling out there, he may be physically fresher when he comes back and thus will have his chances of winning again.
He really is not playjng badly even if he has to battle for four five sets. So, with proper rest and recovery, and playing BO3 thus not as much grinding necessary unlike BO5, he may be in better position to win.
Lucky…I think Novak will end year as no 1 and Rafa will be 2. This maybe the year the no 1 has least number of points…around 9000 max..Rafa will not play mostly for a month now…if Novak wins uso he will be only 1000 behind in the race and it depends what all he cleans up later between Beijing Shanghai Paris and wtf. It’s not tough for him at all
Rafa will have 1100 more points than Djoker if Djoker wins USO, I am taking out last year gained points. I think it will all boil down to who wins WTF. I think at the end of year Fed will be 4.
I dont think 1 and 2 will matter a lot to Rafa . He should be healthy for AO.
Yes but if Rafa ends year as no 1..he ties fed for year end no 1..same with Novak…
Imagine the 3 best of this gen all have 5 year end no 1
Sanju, I doubt Djoko would clean up all those events, esp when he has to play Laver Cup which is just one week before Beijing.
Djoko while able to win his matches, wasn’t convincing in his wins, unlike his 2011 or 2015. I won’t be surprised that Delpo beats him to win the USO here.
Delpo has yet to play his best match here at the USO, and I feel he’s the one other than Rafa who could beat this Djoko. Djoko was defending and retrieving and doing his usual of moving his opponents left and right to extract errors. Djoko is very fortunate with the draw, and has Millman instead of Fed, has Kei instead of Cilic in his QF and SF respectively. It’s just like at Wimbledon, he had Kei and not Delpo as his QF opponent.
I think Delpo will bring his best tennis in the final; I do feel Rafa frustrates Delpo with the way Rafa could neutralize Delpo’s serve and FH. He losing to Rafa at all their recent slam matches would cast doubts in Delpo’s head. Of course facing Djoko in a final is nothing easy, a daunting task, but at least the last time Delpo lost to Djoko at a slam was long time ago. They had not faced each other in 2018 before the USO. Rafa retiring in the SF helped Delpo to save some precious energy.
I think it’s 50:50 between Djoko and Delpo in the final. Regarding Beijing and Shanghai, Shanghai is a quick court and Fed and Delpo may not make it easy for Djoko to win there.
As I said earlier, Rafa wasn’t playing badly despite not having a good serve, so if he has sufficient rest and recovery for his knee, works on his serve, he may come back during the indoor HC swing and does some damage when he’s physically fresh while the others may not, after battling through the Asian swing. We’ll see, I’m not convinced that Djoko is back to his conquering self.
Djoko has four YE no. 1 not five – 2011/2012/2014/2015.
If he gets it this year or next..he will be 5 too ..hence I said all 3 having 5 year end no 1
I think Rafa, Djoko, Delpo and Fed will be top four in whichever order by year end. It looks right finally with Delpo replacing Murray inside top four. Sasha, Dimi simply not good enough to stay in top four esp if they can’t win slam or reaches a slam final.
If Delpo wins the USO, then it’s like 2012 all over again with the top four each winning a slam. Delpo deserves a stint at no.1 and winning another slam, for all those sufferings he had gone through and for being the player who had beaten a no.1 player the most time (10 times) not being no.1 himself.
Three times in the past 1.5 year I had emotionally invested in Rafa for a tourney n all 3 times i was left with a void..2017 ao , 2018 wimby , 2018 uso. Fed had never beaten him at a slam since 2007 n Rafa fought all adversity n reached the final at ao 2017, was up a break in final set , was aiming double career slam n fed took it away from him by playing brilliant . At 2018 wimby , Rafa was playing well n was a tad unlucky to play djoko under closed roof and external circumstances played against him. At 2018 uso, injury did him in.
I think I should not emotionally invest in any slam and just see what happens.
Yeah. Rafa retired from two HC slams this year, not a good sign. I guess he really really needs his good serve so that he can at least win some cheap points or at least be in an advantageous position to be able to execute a more aggressive game.
He’s always hitting his first serve into the net, and his second serve was predictable, unlike last year. He has to work so hard to win points, and hes already doing well by reaching SF at both Wimbledon and USO without a good serve.
We have to wait and see what happens going forward. Its better not to set any high expectations, that way we wont be so disappointed. I can’t imagine how disappointed Rafa is, when he has to face such disappointments so often in his career.
During the Thiem match the commentators were discussing Rafa’s body. Darren Cahill said that Rafa has a great tennis physique, but the parts he’d want are his mind and heart. Me, I’d take his spirit. Like a phoenix Rafa will rise again. He loves what he does and, almost as much, he loves to see other people succeed. As he said after the Thiem match, it’s not about winning or losing, it’s about giving your best.
Woke up to see the result😢
Rest up and heal rafa darling!
As for those casting aspersions apart from the obvious trolls ie Joe and al why don’t the pair of you just sod off!you both have been derogatory about rafa for months now starting at rg.
Vamos Delpo for the title!
Yes Amy when their own fav is doing far worse…they talk more about Rafa n less about fed. Guess dislike n grudge for Rafa is more than love for fed. Hehe
Sanju, I regularly comment on Fed’s matches. I give credit to his opponents for their deserved wins, and I don’t make excuses for him when he loses.
Fed is not playing any more in this tournament, so I don’t have a lot to say about his play right now.