They took interesting paths to get there, but Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka have set up an intriguing final matchup at the U.S. Open. In six previous Grand Slam showdowns heading into Sunday, Djokovic and Wawrinka have played four five-setters.
Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka will be squaring off for the 24th time in their careers when they battle for the U.S. Open title on Sunday afternoon.
Although Djokovic is dominating the head-to-head series 19-4, this has to be considered one of the most entertaining matchups in tennis over the past four years. Dating back to the 2013 Australian Open, they have faced each other five times in Grand Slams and four have required fifth sets. The two veterans split a pair of thrillers at the 2013 and 2014 Australian Opens, Djokovic prevailed 6-4 in the fifth in the 2013 U.S. Open semis, and he cruised 6-0 in the fifth last year Down Under before Wawrinka won the 2015 French Open via a 4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 decision in the final.
Speaking of finals, the third-ranked Swiss is an unbelievable 10-0 in his last 10 matches with a title at stake.
“He’s a big-match player,” Djokovic said of Wawrinka. “He loves to play [on] the big stage against big players, because that’s when he elevates his level of performance; just gets much better. I think he was very close to [losing in the third round] in this tournament and he was struggling with his form, but the last couple of matches he’s (been) getting in that shape that is winning him big matches. I lost to him in (the) finals of French Open and I lost to him in (the) quarterfinals of Australia when he won, as well.”
Wawrinka’s appearance in this final did not seem likely when he lost five of his last 10 matches prior to arriving in New York. Moreover, as Djokovic indicated, the No. 3 seed needed to save a match point against Daniel Evans in the last 32 before surviving 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(6), 7-6(8), 6-2. He has also defeated Fernando Verdasco, Alessandro Giannessi, Illya Marchenko, Juan Martin Del Potro, and Kei Nishikori.
Although Wawrinka avoided five-setters in the rest of his matches, no one has enjoyed an easier time in Flushing Meadows than Djokovic. The Serb has benefited from a walkover (from Jiri Vesely) and two retirements (by Mikhail Youzhny and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga) in addition to mostly routine victories over Jerzy Janowicz, Kyle Edmund, and Gael Monfils. As such, the jury is still out on Djokovic’s form in the wake of a Wimbledon setback against Sam Querrey and a Rio Olympics loss to Del Potro. The world No. 1 was also nowhere near his best against Monfils on Friday, but the Frenchman turned in a somewhat bizarre performance to cost himself a chance for an upset.
Still, Wawrinka is well aware of what Djokovic is capable of bringing to the table.
“To play Novak it’s always really challenging,” he assured. “We [have] some many big memories together, especially in Grand Slams, so it’s going to be an exctiting match. The secret is simple: I have to play my best tennis; my best game. I have enough confidence in myself that when I play my best level I can beat him. Hopefully I can bring that Sunday. But it’s the biggest challenge; when you play Novak, the No. 1 player in the final of Grand Slam, it’s the biggest challenge you can have.”
It is also true that Djokovic is vulnerable right now, but at the same time his fortuitous trek through the draw is just what the doctor ordered for a player who had been struggling just a bit physically prior to the tournament. Even though the 12-time major champion showed additional signs of physical issues against Monfils, he is more rested than Wawrinka and should be able to put forth his best showing of the fortnight when it matters most.
Pick: Djokovic in 5
[polldaddy poll=9519215]
WWW?
Nole in 4. But I hope it’s a 5 set battle.
Wawrinka in 5
Stan in 4.
Nole in 4.
Love how many votes there are for the Stanimal!
tough one to call!
Playing it safe is picking Nole. Think Stan wins this 1. He is on the 1 per year vibe.
Brutal conditions favour Stan. Plus he wont be fooled by Nole’s theatrics. It is hard to discern when he is really hurt. Stan did not take too kindly to Rafa’s off court medical time out in Melbourne. He is a bit paranoid and will expect Nole to try mess with his head.
Fully fit Djoko > Stan. Not fully fit Djoko < Stan.
Novak win in 3 or 4 sets
oops!
Nobody can beat Stan when he’s in this kind of form. Djokovic knows if he plays at a high level he can beat anyone in GF finals. That’s not the case against Stan so Djokovic is more vulnerable psychologically than usual.
Stan in 4 or 5
Except on clay at FO against a top form Rafa.
Top form Rafa at FO >> top form Djoko.
And on grass at Wimbledon:
Top form Fed > top form Djoko
I’ll go for Nole in 4. Would also like it to go to five but I doubt it…
Would love to see a high level tennis and interesting match. The womens final was exciting except that inexperienced poker-face Pliskova choked. Great achievement for Kerber this year though…i was really getting tired of Serena out forcing them all…
Get ready for Nole’s shirt ripping and Stan finger pointing at his head ?
Don’t forget the obligatory forced C’mons. CB is like a trained seal.
Djokovic also hasn’t been tested yet so we don’t know where he is at given his poor form coming into the tournament. We know Stan is playing at the highest level because he’s come through the toughest part of the draw. Murray, Nishikori, del Potro were all in top form.
Another reason Stan will most likely win this.
He didnt play Murray, he played a Delpo that had finally hit a wall and wasn’t nearly the same player he was over the last couple months, and he played a Nishikori who also just couldn’t fight through the tough conditions and weltered in the heat.
Form-lines of recent matches suggest Stan will win.
del Potro beat Djokovic
Wawrinka beat del Potro (quite easily)
Murray beat del Potro
Nishikori beat Murray
Wawrinka beat Nishikori
well that doesn’t really logically follow does it?
the quicker surface and lower bounce doesn’t really suit stan as he doesn’t have the time he needs to set up his shots. the surface at rg with its high bounce is much better for him.
but the biggest factor is nole’s problems with serve which are surely injury related and which seem to be affecting his whole game and dragging him down to an unfathomably bad level.
never been a better time to play nole…
Tennis is rarely transitive.
This doesn’t mean anything
Stan did force Djoko to go the limit the last time they played here in 2013 SF; the Djoko then was playing much better than he is playing now so there’s hope for Stan.
yeah but nole played very badly that match.
i see stan as the fave given nole’s problems anyway.
just had a thought!! given nole’s problems he is going to have multiple time outs isn’t he with the trainer?? will stan repeat his ao outbursts trying to get the crowd going?
i am assuming they will be for him mostly as will be pro fed transfering their love to stan.
could get ugly.
if that does happen nole had better bl***y well win and shut them up.
Stan has all the ability to do miracles. If he is in peak, he can do miracles. But being title on the door head, even though djoko had struggles at times, It is not wise to read off Djoko, if we are betting.
true
Stan wants a US Open. Stan wins. It’s that simple.
No it’s not that simple. Not with Novak on the other side of the net. Even Novak not at his best is tough to take out at a slam. I don’t think we are going to see what happened at Wimbledon be repeated any time soon.
Stan is not playing his best right now. He’s been up and down. Initially Nishi was getting the better of him in their match. You may forget that the second set was very tight. Stan did raise his level of play and pulled out the second set. Nishi wouldn’t go away, but in the end fatigue from his previous five set battle to take out Murray finally did him in.
Don’t think for a minute that Novak doesn’t want to win this.
Stan said he will have to play his best to beat Novak. He is right. I certainly think he’s got a chance here, but it is not nearly as simple as you are trying to make it.
Stan has NOT been playing his best tennis. He has, however, been improving his level in his last two matches. He was good against Kei.
If the weather is going to be hot and humid again, Stan’s chances improve a bit more.
The court surface definitely favours Djokovic more but it won’t limit Stan from playing his best if he is ready. Stan has the belief but I am not sure where his level will be. We will have to wait and see.
Yeah. I didn’t believe in Stan at all going into US Open. Verdasco was my first round pick!
For me, it is that simple because I believe that when Stan is motivated he’s the number one player in the world. Wawrinka toyed with Djokovic at the French Open and there’s a strong chance he’ll the same again today. Djokovic fears Wawrinka more than any other player because he knows even if he brings his A game it still might not be good enough against Wawrinka.
oh please that is really pushing it! nole’s best is better than stan’s best and that is why he has 12 slams and stan has 2. one of those 2 was also against an injured opponent.
Amy,
I have to agree with you. I don’t see how anyone can say stan’s best beats novak’s best. Novak has been the #1 player and dominant player for the last two years. That is no accident. He just completed the career slam and also winning four slams in a row. Something that neither Rafa or Fed were able to do.
Stan has done well in the last two years to finally realize his potential with the help of Magnus Norman. But he is not in the same league with Novak. There is no comparison when you look at their careers.
Stan has shown that he had the game to challenge Novak. There is no question about that. But Stan has to play the match of his life to beat Novak at the 2015 RG. He had not played at that level this year.
It is true that his other slam win at the 2014 AO was against a Rafa who was severely hampered by a back injury.
Best player in the world when motivated and best player in the world in terms of ranking – big difference!
Djoker in four
WaWa beat down an injured and battered Kei. Nishikori littered the floor with the 45 unforced errors in that match. tons of free points. Novak is rested, motivated and tuned up for a battle with Stanimal. Novak on top in four to five.
oops! (i missed it, too)
One thing that Stan did pretty well in his QF and SF was to make them a physical battle and took out the legs of Delpo and Kei.
If he can do something similar today, Nole’s niggles may flare up and hamper him.
I am hearing that the weather in NY today is still unseasonably hot and humid. The final will start at 4:00 and that later start could help. But the weather could be a factor. Both Novak and Monfils were struggling with the muggy conditions in the semifinal.
Both of these guys are fit. Stab may have taken the legs out of both Delpo and Nishi, but Novak is fitter than both of them.
We will have to see if the weather conditions are a factor in the final.
Of course I meant to say STAN!
Stab
hehehe 🙂
Of course you did! I kinda like “Stab” though. Stan IS an assassin. At times.
Ramara,
LOL!
?
Perhaps not enough time since the Monfils/Djokovic match has passed. That was so bad. Please lord, help it not be a flop.
Remembering back to FO 2015, I can now see the humor and appreciate Stan because Nole has his FO. It’s nice to cheer for both at the moment. Always hope for Stanimal and Nole to be good one.
Stanimal in five
Cant bear the sickly colour red that Stan is sporting. What’s more it clashes badly with his red nose 😀
Cant make up my mind if the Djoker has been faking ‘bad’ to confuse us all and he’ll come out today with all guns firing. I’m also increasingly irritated by his drama queen performances and exaggerated expressions of agonised pain when getting treatment for his various niggling injuries. As for the pretentious ritual for showing his love to the crowd the less said the better 🙁
I can’t stand that magenta color Stan is wearing! Awful! It just happens to be my least favorite color! I don’t think it does anything for Stan!
We will have to wait and see how Novak plays in the final. But he didn’t look to be faking it in his first match. I also think he was definitely struggling with the hot, humid conditions in the semis. The reason I do think something is going on with his shoulder is because of how he has been serving.
tiggy has picked stan! now that’s a jinx as tiggy is a dreadful picker..he’s nearly always wrong.
a lot of people are picking stan and saying that nole is physically impeded…hard to argue with the latter statement..why else has his normally ultra reliable serve gone missing for a while now..?
Rather like the idea that if Stan were to win this, then he would be 3 QRTs of the way to a career GS, and then Murray getting the AO next year, i think it would be fantastic to see all the greats in this era eventually doing the same thing, BTW i want Angie to get the FO and W at some point too, lol i know i dont want much 😉 ….
Hi Ratclif up there waves to you my ethereal friend 😉 ….
Hello alison! Nice to see you here ??
Are you going to be watching this final? ??
“I knew I could fight for three, four, five hours,” he said after the Nishikori match. “I want to make them suffer and that’s what I did against Del Potro and today as well.” Wawrinka
Hi Ratcliff i will try to stay up and watch some of the final, but its the middle of the night where i am, and im back at work tomorrow unfortunatly, i would be happy for either man, as im not concerned about Novak eventually surpassing Rafa, too much talk and hyperbole on you know where is about this player surpassing that player etc, that people forget its just a game to be enjoyed, i hope your well and i left you an e.mail too, enjoyed my break but its time to get back to work and to normal living again i suppose ….
Happy you had a nice break! Have not opened my email but thanks! Enjoy hearing from you and always hope you are well.
Yeah, understand it’s not a good time to watch 😉 And who knows if the tennis will be any good…we’ll soon see 😀
Sort of want Stan to get a US Open. Not sure Nole will allow it! Cheering for a good match…
Djokovic in 4 sets.
Player are on court now.
#BEL13VE
#NoleFam
#LetsDoThis
yep. ajde nole.
Djokovic holds to 30, so far he has served at reasonable speeds 119-122 mph.
Ridiculous D from Nole for 0-15!!!
Djokovic breaks. 2-0
Break Nole!!!!
Idemooo!!!
Terrible start from stan but Djokovic’s ROS is so damn solid.
i see from live scores stan has been broken. bet he’s not pointing at his head right now..
plenty of time for that though..
Djokovic holds to love with 2 aces in the game. 3-0
Nole pretty good out of the blocks!!
Stan holds easily and he is on the board. Djokovic 3-1
Novak looks pretty sharp in the early going.
ESPN commies said that it’s less humid now than it has been over the last few days.
The court quickness allowing Djokovic to rush Stan into errors…Stan must slow things down a little bit…returning second serves from deep behind seems to be an okay idea for now
Stan already with 11 unforced errors comfortable hold for Djokovic puts him 4-1 ahead.
Too many errors from Stan…. Djokovic has come out solid and no part of his game is breaking down.
Djokovic’s strategy is similar to theh FO-2015 but he is closer to the baseline today. Wawrinka is missing too much so perfect strategy. He can do that all day long.
Monster second serve from Stan for 30-30…. he NEEDS this hold!
Greatest ROS I have ever seen: Novak Djokovic.
It is an aggressive return but at the same time high percentage! perfect balance.
Stan MUST hold here for 4-2…very very important!
Ah Djokovic throws a looper and Wawrinka is ready this time! and an ace to make it 4-2!
he just needs to keep pushing and create some doubts in Djokovic’s mind.
Stan saves Bp and holds Djok 4-2
My goodness how did Djokovic keep absorbing power from Stan’s forehand there!
Djokovic holds to love 5-2. He has dropped only 3 points in 4 service games.
Hold to love for 5-2.
This ain’t no tired Kei or Delpo.
Put the CryBaby to sleep Nole.
lol
Djokovic’s forehand CC is so aggressive today! it is heavy and close to the side line…
So no problem serving today….5-2
I remember their 2014 AO match and Djokovic cruised to 6-2 in set 1…I thought this one will be a straigh set win and what happened in 2013 was a one-off thing. Stan settled and found his rhythm and we know what happened thereafter.
What is imperative for Stan is to keep pressing. Doesn’t matter he is 2-5 down . He must keep pressing .
Stan should not shy from net approaches… A lot of the time he has Novak against the wall but Novak keeps retrieving….
Wow Djokovic is PUMMELLING stan’s forehand and extracting errors.
There is that backhand DTL from Stan and he continues to fight off adversity again. These could be really important for his confidence. 5-3
Stan saves 2 set points he holds Novak will serve for the set.
0-30! Stan has tightened the screws a bit and Novak making some errors
Get ready for the first point to his fat head.
39-40. Cmon Nole!!!
Stan breaks back.
damn. nole should already have won this set
0-40…Ace… 0-15
15-40…. TIGHT backhand from Djokovic skids off the baseline and stan shankes his backhadn..30-40
DOUBLE FAULT! 5-4 !
THAT is what I was talking about! Keep pressing and keep trying to create doubts in his mind!
DF. Back on serve.
Djokovic double faults on bp.
Shit. Double faults the break away failing to serve it out.
#RafaMoment
i knew he was going to do that after not taking all those break points.
That was something else to see Novak DF away the break. Doing it when serving for the set is even more surprising.
Come on! ya. crank it up guys 😀 Beautiful ball striking from Nole ole to gather momentum back. Decent comeback in the set from Stan.
Stan better pace himself. Is Donna Vekic there or not?
i used to not mind stan but he has become incredibly annoying
Ever since AO 2014.
lol…I don’t like Stan but I like his brand of tennis…
And, no secret I would not want Nole to get closer to Rafa’s slam tally lol
Stan holds to 15 and its 5-5.
You don’t see Novak up 5-2 and then end up at 5-5 that often. What a turnaround!
we’re going to have a horrific overdose of head pointing if stan steals this set. i may vomit.
Djokovic holds to love and moves ahead 6-5 Stan will now serve to stay in the set.
This set deserves a tie break..
Amen. TB!
As much as I want to see someone catch Feds 17 slams, I’d still usually pull for the underdog vs Nole. Except when that underdog is CryBabe.
Tiebreak to decide the 1st set.
Anyone notice Djokovic’s return position on the deuce court? he is standing a step closer to the centre line to handle Stan’s down-the-T serve! There is a bigger opening for Stan on the wide serve so he should mix it up nicely.
Tie break! Stan has definitely improved his game now… 55-45 Djokovic in this tie break I feel.
That was a poor backhand slice miss from Stan…was easily defend-able…
Djokovic’s sharp angled forehand to Wawrinka’s forehand has been the most profitable pattern in this set… the serb has had so much success
Wooot!! tennis
WHAT A RALLY THAT WAS! woah!!! stan wins it! 2-1 ! How crucial could that prove to be!
But Nole ole answers back…..wow
hahaha DJokovic responds! Stan should not have tested djokovic’s backhand defensive ability there lol
Shirts are going to rip.
Djokvic 4-1 in tiebreak. he hit an Astonishing backhand down the line to move ahead 3-1.
Looks like that incredible piece of defending from Djokovic will prove to be the deciding moment in this T.B…..
yep… 5-1
Djokovic 5-1 in tiebreak.
Come on fight STAN! Shake it off. More, more, more…
YES!!!!come on nole!! get it done fast please!
Djokovic wins the set 7-6(1)
@64 aces, whose side are you on? Are you a Novak fan?
Wawrinka loses this set but he has done a great job of settling in and I am sure he will start the next set with better form.
I can only clap at Djokovic defense in that 2-1 point (so did Stan).
Djokovic’s counterpunching beats Stan’s power game in set 1.
Stan did do well to get back in this set and then made s few bad errors in a row to lose the TB.
Stan should now try to focus and put the disappointment of that TB behind him and come out strong in the second set.
Counter punching won but we’ve barely seen the power and precision of Stanimal. (he’s a bit off) Not sure if we’ll get treated to it or not. If Stan can just get one of the next two sets, we’ll see who has more endurance down the stretch 😉 probably Nole.
The two slm victories that stan has over nole is coming from on set down.. Some consolation that all is not lost
are you at the match vmk?
Good point!
Cant believe Stan has such a poor TB record esp against Djoko. Looks like Djoko just has to hold serve and waits for TB to come each set and he’ll win it in straight sets. I think he has more than enough reserve to last that long.
Actually should Djoko wins this, it becomes quite embarrassing for the whole field that none of them can beat a bad shoulder, poor serving no.1, even though he is the no.1 player and not exactly playing very well.
Well he didn’t have to play Nadal fed or Murray. He played injured guys (Tsonga Youzhny) got walkover (Vesely) played a nervous as hell guy (Edmund) and got a not-trying-in-the-first-two-sets Monfils. What makes me sad is a healthy fed prob could’ve won this tournament with Djokovic not playing well. That stupid injury caused by running a bath for his kids. Damnit…
Very positive start from Stan. He is hitting so much better now.
The most unreliable shot in Stan’s arsenal is his forehand DTL! It is SO damn risky and he misfires a lot but when he is hitting it well, he becomes Staninal.
that was a pity he missed that running backhand CC
Woah what a fantastic Overhead winner from Novak
1-1 in 2nd set.
Stan had an opening there and he did not play well at all. 1-1
There was a DF again from Djokovic so Stan must keep up the pressure and hope Djokovic feels it more!!!
No doubt Stan is a lot closer to becoming stanimal right now than he was at the beginning of the match.
One thing that has not deserted (actually it never does) the Serbian this tournament is his ROS. Can’t imagine how much pressure he puts the server under.
Kudos to Sam Querry for winning that battle at least haha
Stan’s bh is not completely dialed in – it feels a little tentative for my taste.
Over-hitting the forehand and hitting the bh short and shaky. Stan needs Nole to contribute more by dropping his level 😀
well 2 dfs in one game is quite a contribution…
Timely DF
Forehand DTL in particular RC! Stan has been improving but he must increase the pace of that improvement lol
Stan presses hard and he has 2 brk pts! Djokovic with two DF’s in this game
Finger to head
nole obligingly donates his serve….damn…
THAT WAS STANIMAL UNLEASHED ON THAT BREAK POINT!!!wowww
He realized he MUST pounce on this opportnity. Djokovic’s second serve was 76 MPH!!!
Yes, streaky Stanimal. Nole pressing for the rebreak.
I like that, streaky stanimal!
come on nole break back. make amends for the dfs..
135 mph body serve from Stan! deuce!
hahaha Stan is trolling. roaaaaaaaaar
That was definitely Stanimal in that game point! I am telling you guys…he settled into the match in set 1 and is now using it a a launch pad…Djokovic allowed him to break but Stan looks a lot more solid now.
Djokovic clearly has doubts about his second serve and Stan must keep pressing regardless of the score.
I’m pretty confident Nole will win, vr. Can’t help but love this tho! My mind needs it.
That’s some monster hitting from Stanislas Wawrinka 15-15
Made my lungs burn.
Djokovic breaks back.
Adje Noleeeeee!!!!
Back on serve!!!
Wild wild forehand from Wawrinka… tooo many errors…
Allow me to post the match stats:
Djokovic: 11 winners to 21 UE
Stan: 13 winners to 28 UE
It is a poor quality match for a slam final. Stan, you can’t win this when you have twice as many UE’s
Djokovic holds to love and its 4-4.
Geez, some of us need another drop in level from Nole so Stan gets a set ?
So Stan being broken back as expected.
If Djoko wins here, it will be significant for him – equals Fed’s 9 HC slams; equals Fed’s 3 slam wins on 3 occasions with two of them B to B years; defended his slam titles at 3 of 4 slams. To think of what he can achieve here with a bad shoulder!
yeah but he hardly had to go through the rigours of a grand slam…too many walkovers and retirements early on
Djoko just has to hold serve now and waits for TB to come.
Stan should definitely go for more body serves….He has easily crank up serves in that 130-135 MPH range and they can set up shots for him.
4-5… Hoping Djokovic feels some pressure here, throws away a double fault and stanimal awakens for him game.
We should at least get a 4 setter guys!!
Yesssssss, you called it VR!
Stanimal is such an enigma?
What have I been telling you guys? Stan must keep pressing and the doubts in Novak’s mind will create opportunities for Stan!
Stan played a smart game at 5-4 and that time the pointing to the head was justified.
I think Stan has now realized that the body serve serves him well here. He was going for corners and getting punished.
BREAK POINT STAN!
woahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Surely stanimal cant make this last? He is hitting heavy
2/11 bp’s made. Stat for Nole reported by Pat Mac
Okay…geting behind Nole ole! Stan is a dangerous
Sheesh, Nole playing a bit too conservative… not taking any chance on a simple overhead
When does Nole ever take chances? He relies on his opponents. Making mistakes.
What about the ‘Lucky Shot’ ?
You don’t really seem to remember that.
Oh I remember!
?
so how does he hit all those winners? :s
He hit 100 UEs in one match.
There that was a decent oh
body serve again!
Moonball worked. Break point again. Got it. Lucky net cord.
Really dumb from Stan! Now being broken back again!
Stan can’t seem to keep it going. Just when you think he has the momentum, he lets it get away.
This match looks like it will go the distance!
Djokovic holds and its 3-3 in 3rd.
Ouch…another lung burner. but made it. 3-3
Jelena ?
Stan has so much better control over his game now. In set 1 he was being a ball-basher but now he is in that controlled-aggression mode. He is spreading the court and not being too reckless with his forehand. I love the way he is creating those angles on his inside-out forehand (something he was not doing in set 1 ) to setup his big forehand.
To me Stan is the slightly better player at the moment. slightly. That should materalize in him winning this set if things don’t change
Nah, Stan will blow it, it seems.
haha…you never know with stan….djokovic is obviously higher on the reliability metre.
But, I see so much more control in his forehand now. Djokovic will have to raise his level to take this set.
4 all.
BODY SERVE AGAIN! And I called it wayy earlier than he had started doing it regularly 😛 😛
Anyway, adv stan and…. Deuce again! This is so even at the moment. Perhaps Djokovic has the edge in this game from the baseline.
I think so…Nole has better legs; Stan has better lungs… but there’s still time for it all to change!
Donna Vekic in the house ?
hahaha
Very sloppy tennis from both especially considering it’s a slam final.
Nole wound tight as a drum almost Rafa-like.
Body serve is really earning big points for him! It was Rafa actually who showed how effective they can be against this guy. Stan must keep mixing it up though!
So Djoko looked riled up again . Will he buckle under pressure again? 4-5
Djokovic holds to love 5-5.
I love this tennis match, Hawk! It’s good.
I don’t have the stats but UEs to winners from both must be horrible.
That’s not the only measure of a match. There is the excitement factor, ups and downs, lead changes, strategies and tactics.
What a combination from Stan! That’s clarity of thought right there! 30-30
It’s so between the ears and even more when they begin hitting the wall, isn’t it.
It’s approaching 3 hours – past that by the time they get to 4th set. Marathon.
76 errors, 54 winners.
Both guys with more errors.
Djokovic nowhere near the level he was against fed last year, a much better match.
Fed last year would beat either of these guys today.
There’s the finger!
Stan takes the third set!
those were some junky looking balls from both
Both playing not to lose. Head pointer just a little less so.
there it is ☝? the annoying
☝
Very little aggression from Nole.
Mental problema.
Not a good match IMO.
It’s a great junk ball fight! (I know you don’t like it or him CB) Nole’s still going to win…I think. Not sure which one looks better. I think Nole has the edge. Stan’s a total mouth breather at this point. Got a swollen, red nose.
No I just would like to see a high level of play with more great shots but it’s sooooo sloppy with a lot of loopy shots.
STANIMALLLLL!
Got to show respect for Stan the Man!!!!
He will always be a cry baby to me.
Nole is handing it to him.
Nole 0-6 in slam finals when down two sets to one.
Yes, absolutely!
I am enjoying this match quite a bit! No emotions invested for me, just enjoying the tennis.
If you want to know what a bad match is, just think back to Novak/Monfils in the semis! Niw that was a bad match!
There has been suspense, changes of leads, physical tennis, lead changes. It’s not just about stats like winners versus UE’s. The crowd seems to be enjoying it.
We like it!!
Stan 18 winners in set 3 and Djokovic 22 winners for the entire match. Someone tell this stat to Nole and he’ll wake up lol
That is a revealing stat!
WHAT A MONSTER start from Stan in this game ! blasting winners to race to 40-0!
Nole won’t catch Feds 17 IMO if he loses here.
Novak hasn’t been tested in this tournament and that could well be there difference. Novak has had it very easy on his way to the final, whereas Stan has had it much tougher.
Awesome match!I think Djokovic is feeling historical pressure but will still come back and push this to five.
I told you guys in the middle of set 3 …Stan has so much better control over his forehand now and he is the SLIGHTLY better player and that should materialize in him winning the set if things don’t change. They didn’t and Stan won.
Stan has started the set with incremental improvement I would say and that’s scary given he hit 18 winners in set 3! Djokovic will it here if he can’t change some of those patterns.
For a start, he should serve better.
30-30! hugeeee hitting from Stan
Novak is cramping. When do you see Novak cramping?
Stan’s down the line shots are too hot to handle for Novak
time to get angry – rip the shirt
Nolle is now grabbing his left thigh like he’s injured??
He’s cramping!
Nole done and dusted.
#YawnFest
Nole nole nole nole dig deep buddy. Call a trainer!
Seriously, the lack of match play might be working against him if he’s cramping.
Yup.
Both players serving under 60%.
Yes, that’s it. Lack of match play.
ESPN commies are saying that Novak can’t call for the trainer for cramping.
Yet the trainer has come out for Novak. Something with his toes.
Stan won’t be happy about this!
? pedicure
LOL!
Deja vu for Stan!
CryBaby crying again.
uh oh! Stan having a hissy fit again!
Dodgy MTO by Djoker
Meanwhile Stan is p****d off
Where’s Mirka? She’d call him out for sure.
Wrap it up soon, Stan.
Told u this would happen.
It surely will get into Stan’s head if suddenly Djoko starts playing as if nothing is wrong with him. Nole just apologised to Stan from the chair saying “Sorry man, I could not stand. :D” Yeah right 😛
I think Nole will break Stan here
Not a fair play from Novak! He is trying to disrupt Wawa’s rhythm! Let’s see if it worked…
Novak trying to talk to Stan to explain what is going on.
ESPN commies are being sarcastic about Novak needing to take a MTO for some toe problem.
Stan really has to keep it together here.
Pat McEnroe is a fedfan.
ESPN commies are talking about abuse of rules.
Stan trying to get the crowd going. Body serve from Stan.
So so so so many sloppy errors from both.
Not a high level match on any level.
Blatant foul play by Djoker.!?
I am not happy about the MTO for Novak.
Well done Stan!
Where’s the finger?
☝️
That was NOT good from Djokovic …
Anyway, stan continues to fend off adversity ! His DTL shots are too much for Nole.
@Hawkeye, I must say, all the pointing to the head has been justified today lol
vr,
Thank you for saying it! I agree!
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Sense Stan needs another break here. One break will not be enough
Cold blooded Swiss saves break points ! Respect!
Djoker should be booed off the court no matter what happens. No wonder he’s not popular with tennis fans in general.
Lol smh
just read this thread. nadline turning up to dish out hate is so predicatable and boring.
Congrats to all CryBabe fans here lol.
#CricketsChirping
what an irony. the guy who benefited the most from injuries this tourney is hobbling
He’s been hobbled for a while… Lets not act like this is a new thing
Rafa called an mto for blisters against fed and went on to beat him in Australia in 2014.
Exactly what I was thinking… But when Djoker does it, huge outrage…. What a joke
No I believe it was a huge outrage from CryBabe and the fans when Rafa took an mto at 2014 AO final.
Gonna go back and look into it, swear if I remember correctly it was swept under the rug like it was nothing.
Hahahaha um no.
Why is Novak still walking like that? He had the MTO. Are we to assume it didn’t help?
Now the trainer is out again!
Rafa actually had blisters Djoker is faking his.
I think the timing of the MTO was an issue… normally it is when the other player has finished his service game and then was one given when Stan was about to serve.
But yeah, nadline is over-doing it here lol
Rafa has done same. That’s an unwritten rule but you could tell he was clearly hampered prior to treatment.
They should put his legs in a cast and take him away on a stretcher. What a cheating clown Djoker is!!!!!
I don’t see how that was abuse of the rules.
Misunderstood. He apologized and explained to Stan. Stan just had to voice his complaint. They get each other. anesthetize that toe!
No, there is s problem with the toe. It was PMac who said it was abuse of the rules. But there is blood on his toe and it’s bandaged. The tournament supervisor is there keeping an eye on the MTO for Novak. It’s not a cramping issue. He does have some problem with his toe. They showed it close up! Ugh!
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Idemo Nole!
0-30. Hopefully Stan tightens up here and makes a few UFE
Everything to the body here from Stan on the serve.Smart
Fight! Deuce.
STANIMLALLLLLL !!! second MP!
#NoleHug
Stan is the man!
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Congrats to Stan….
Well done, Stan!
You shouldn’t win a slam by playing two and a half matches.
I can’t argue with that! However, Novak had no control over what happened. I actually think the lack of match play hurt him.
I just want to see other players win in the men’s game. Murray and Stan each have one. That’s good for the game.
Novak still won two slams, the career slam and four in a row. But it’s good to see other guys in the men’s game step up.
Yup true that NNY.
Honestly the match happened as I was expecting. Stan started to improve and play well enough to create more doubts in Djoko’s mind. The Serb’s serve was a liability and he buckled under pressure. He was poor on break points.
It took time for Stan to realize he needs the body serve. He won so many big pts due to his body serves. Novak started reading them later in the fourth but it was too late.
I repeat my assessment of Djokovic’s game as compared to Federer and Nadal: The serbian lacks firepower (relatively) in his baseline game. he can be pretty aggressive with baseline positioning but lacks firepower. Nadal and Fed have their huge forehands so they are able to change the tempo of rallies with one shot sometimes, esp Rafa because of his spin. Stan is able to impose his game on Novak and he forces him to defend and counterpunch. Rafa is able to push stan back by virtue of heavy forehands . When Stan is totally on his game, may be he is the slight favourite against Djoko unless it is grass or a quick indoor court. Novak is obv more reliable and consistent and that we can’t take from him.
CryBabe needs a boost lol.
Well done Stan. Writing was on the wall.
Stan not awknowledging fans at all as he walks up …. This guy 🙁
Have to applaud Stan.
Nole is a genuinely good sport. He’ll not be too wounded from this loss.
Happy for Stan and Nole makes me proud. ??
Huge for Wawa! Congrats! Well deserved win!
Stan the Man who left his family to focus on tennis (player).
Wrong! He left his wife for another girl…nothing new…not that I approve it but it’s his life…his tennis tonight was fabulous! Deserved to be the USO champ! He only needs Wimby title now ?
I agree with natashao on all counts!
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That’s what I said nats.
(young) tennis (player).
Doesn’t make it right and I don’t respect him.
Why does she say NY have the best fans in tennis?
Better than the French sure but why the rest?
How any neutral fan could root for Stan over Djoker is so ridiculous.
No such thing as a neutral fan.
I do not understand your comment at all!
Saying if you aren’t a diehard Djoker fan or a diehard Wawa fan, just a fan of tennis, I just cant fathom rooting for Wawa over Nole. Obviously its just my opinion and others feel differently, just can’t figure it out personally.
Then again, this is coming from a diehard Nole fan who’s a bit, shall I say, upset at the moment. Ha
The Stanimal only shows up once per season but when he does he cannot be beaten. Coming into the USO I never dreamed he could do it after this lousy season. He is a baller. 3-0 in GS finals. No way Nole deserved this title after 3 retirements.
Agreed!
Same I said he would win the U.S. Open at the end of last year because I thought he would win a different slam again and probably not Wimbledon so I said he would win U.S. open on this page posted on here at the end of last year called “burning questions for ATP tour 2016” or something like that. But then when this tourney rolled around he had had such an awful year I completely forgot I predicted that and picked him to lose fourth round. Of course I picked him to win RG and make semis at Wimbledon but I didn’t go with my usual biased pick here and he won. Still what really matters is he won it. So happy for the Stanimal. Awesome performance. He and fed are the most fun players to watch imo. Monfils and vintage Rafa are also of course super entertaining to watch along with Dustin brown and Marcus Willis lol.
Sorry what’s the score? I got to get out of my house and missed the last few games!
Rafa won.
Congrats Lucky! Your prediction was spot on! ?
Thanks Nat!
Verdasco was supposed to beat him in round one.
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Congrats Stan. Well played . Gutsy and came from behind and overcame all distractions from other side of the net.
If once a year is on , is it Wimby next year ? I sure hope so.
Same. I would love to see him complete career grand slam. That would be epic. I wonder if anyone has ever gotten career grand slam by winning one different slam a year for four years. It would be really tough for him to win Wimby as that’s his least successful slam by far and least successful surface even before his breakthrough. It would be funny if he got the career GS before Murray by winning all four finals he’s played when Murray has played a bunch and has two. He’s already closer to career grand slam than Murray in fact. And has same amount of slams. #allezstan
I don’t think Murray will get the career slam. At least not with Djokovic playing in a good level.. and some ”new” serious candidates to win a GS like Thiem, Raonic or even Delpo
Ok I saw the score now. Congrats to Stan! So 3 for 3. Djoko played below his normal level but fought hard. Congrats to both.
I think Djoko reaching the final will help him to secure his YE no.1
Wawa has won 2 major titles after 30. Stronger with age.
Same for kerber. 2 after 28.
Last player to do so since Agassi in 2003. Even fed couldn’t do that.
Oh! Mirka’s Enemy did a great job!
When was the last time before this year that Rafa failed to make a slam quarter Gussie?
Lol.
Felix AA of Canada wins junior USO after losing the Frenxh final.
Allez Felix!!!!
FAA is a baller. Fantastic future ahead of him.
Congrats to Stan and nice to see his parents in attendance. Never seen them before.
RT @scambers73: Looked like Djokovic apologised to Wawrinka for the timeout when embracing at the net. Nice touch
yeah he made up for that by embracing stan so nicely at the net …
RT @carole_bouchard: Djokovic fell apart in a way not seen since a long time. Maybe if he had taken 1st set more easily, he’d have let go a bit. But overall
And I kept saying that Stan is a different player. He will never be the player who blows the field away and races to the final. He can have his struggles earlier on but once he finds a way, he can gradually improve and peak in the biggest moment eps against Djokovic.
Djokovic is kind of in a crisis at the moment. I think he’ll take some time off now to settle his personal issues and health issues. There is time to do that obv.
I think Stan is one of the rare on the tour who believes in his abilities to beat Novak. That’s why he played key points so strongly both mentally and physically! Wawa was really bursting with confidence! And Novak was outplayed today!
yup…. he even once said that he best of five is a different story for him vs Novak! His self-belief is more in best of 5 as opposed to best of 3!
He relishes the challenge.
For now, Rafa has 2 more slams than Nole lol.
I remember thinking as I watched the match progress, that Stan really seemed to believe he could win. That is half the battle! He started playing like it and adjusted his tactics accordingly.
I confess that I was not sure that
Stan could play well enough to beat Novak. He did seem to be peaking at the right time heading into the final. I also wondered how well Novak would play. He did come out playing very well, but as the match went in there were signs that not all was good with him. He had more DF’s than one would expect from him, especially in crucial moments of the match. Stan got stronger and Novak seemed to fade.
I do think that Novak needs some time to recuperate both mentally and physically. He said in his post-match on court interview that he wasn’t sure if he would even be playing at the USO. So there does seem to be some physical issue, because his serving wasn’t great. He didn’t really look that good in the few matches that he did play. He was never really tested and that’s not good in a slam. This match was physical and went more than three sets and Novak was struggling.
He needs some time off to recharge.
agreed.
Vajda also said a few days back that they considered pulling out from the USO!
(AT 2:52 AM)
Vajda said Djoko considered not playing at the USO because of his LEFT WRIST injury. I wonder how it influenced his serve (except the ball toss).
The New York Times, Sept. 7, 2016 (excerpts):
¤¤ Marian Vajda, one of his coaches, confirmed that Djokovic had seriously considered not playing at the Open at all because of a left WRIST injury that was hampering his two-handed backhand.
“I was very worried about it,” Vajda said. “It takes time to heal something like this, and there was no time, just two weeks to three weeks. So we were all worried. We didn’t expect this performance here, basically because all the diagnoses, everything, led us to think that we should consider not to play the tournament, basically. He needed more rest.”
There was also the WRIST injury, which Djokovic said he had sustained a few days before the Rio de Janeiro Games and which Vajda said had required extensive treatment in New York. ¤¤
(B.Becker said: “He has now admitted to be carrying a wrist strain at Wimbledon.” Gulf News, August 10, 2016.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/07/sports/tennis/novak-djokovic-us-open.html?_r=0
vr,
Your take on the match while in progress was spot on! You really sensed when things were changing and understood what Stan needed to do.
Well done!
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thanks NNY 😀
hope you enjoyed the tennis !
Foresight and hindsight – Big difference! 😉
The minute he saved match point against evans and survived I knew he was danger from then on.
Djoko arguably the best hard courter is 2 – 5 in USO finals
Ironic and surprising
Lost 2 to rafa 1 each to Fed Murray and stan
Sanju, he is the best on slow-medium hard courts… not on medium-fast hard courts. Would give that to Federer or Sampras
Pete.
he was incredible.
2014 onwards Stan has won 3 slams..more than what rafa + fed + Murray have
Oh dear! Stan alone > than Rafa, Murray, Fed combined, beating Djoko thrice in slams with 1 loss (AO2015 SF) whilst the trio managed 1 win (Rafa FO2014) and 10 losses to Djoko in the same period!!!
Btw what injury is Novak exactly carrying ? Left wrist or right wrist or elbow of leg or toe.
Each match different parts of body seem to be injured 🙂
Who knows? But when you have an injury it’s very easy to acquire other injuries, sometimes you can hurt another part by trying to protect the injured part. Plus Djokovic had very little match play until the quarter finals. That could have led to foot problems.
For instance I’ve always suspected that Rafa’s back problem during the AO 2012 final occurred because he had a big blister in a bad spot on his left palm. It interfered with his service motion – he felt like he’d lose the racket, and did lose it a few times in practice.
It is true that other parts of the body can get injured when one has an injury. It’s called over-compensation. Other parts of the body become strained because they have to do more to protect the injured area.
Something has been off with novak’s serve, so it could be wrist or shoulder. But he had some kind of issue with his toe in the final. The ESPN commies incorrectly said that he was cramping. But he started to limp and then took off his shoes on the MTO to have the trainer look at his toes. He was treated twice late in the match.
They showed a closeup of his foot and there was a bandage that had blood on it. I do think it could have been something that happened because of too little match play. Maybe a bad blister.
NNY
The problem is knowing if and where he is injured or if he just needs a bit of a sitdown. In fact he has never had to miss any important matches due to injuries in spite of the legions of MTOs and retirements during his career. Being allowed to take an MTO for a pedicure during a match takes the biscuit. He had a callous on his foot, it was not even a bad blister!!!!!!!!
Q. But what about the fairness of the timeout and the timing of the timeout? What were your thoughts about that?
STAN WAWRINKA: For me, I just ask the umpire because he asked the physio when he was serving and we played maybe seven more points and everything. I just wanted to know exactly what was the rule.
That’s it. If your opponent is struggling, if he has blood coming out, you have to stop. So when the umpire and the referee came to me saying, It’s like that. It’s just happening. We have to stop for him because there is blood coming out. We have to make sure he’s going to be okay.
ed251137 (AT 1:19 PM),
At his press-conference, Djoko said that ‘his toenails were off and bleeding’.
US OPEN
Sunday, September 11, 2016
Novak Djokovic
Press Conference
Q. “What exactly was your fourth-set injury? What effect was it having on you?”
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: “Just the toenails were off and bleeding. Yeah, it was quite painful to move around. You know, I tried.”
http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2016-09-11/novak_djokovic_interview_final.html?chip=1
To add to my post AT 2:04 PM, I did some research and made screenshots. I don’t know what it is, but that’s what he had:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsHr81RWIAEjnuG.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsHsAT5WAAA3qBZ.jpg
It was nice of Stan to say Djokovic is a big part of what he is today.it all started in 2013 ao 4th round where he lost 12 10 in 5th set.
Yeah that match really put him on the radar it seemed and that plus his tough loss at 2013 U.S. open semis set him up for some revenge at the aus open 2014 where he’d capture his first of three slams and counting. Come on Stan!! LETS GO!!
When the commies start yapping about MTO’s and whether they’re necessary I always wonder just what kind of shenanigans they used to pull that has made them so suspicious. Djokovic is far from my favorite player but the guy does not call MTO’s for nothing or to disrupt his opponent. Or upset the commentators for that matter.
I didn’t like it too at that moment but I think you are right. Djokovic has matured a lot and calling for unnecessary MTO’s is something he has not done.
I agree with Ramara and vr. I initially was upset and concerned about Novak stopping so suddenly when Stan got the break and the momentum in the fourth set.
But seeing what happened and realizing that’ it was not cramps but some kind of toe issue, made it clear that something was going on. Novak did apologize to Stan while he was getting treatment. Stan certainly was okay with it after the match.
They hugged at the net and all seems to be good. I think the better player today win the match. Stan deserved to win and Novak taking the MTO’s did not cost him.
This is the first time I post here. I just couldn’t help myself when I read your comment. Please remember 2014 Wimbledon final. Prior to set 5 Fed had the momentum firmly on his side and ND called a lengthy MTO, or toilet break. AO 2015 final, he was limping at some point yet running like Usaine Bolt in the rallies. His antics are endless
Usain Bolt!
yeah well everyone’s antics are endless aren’t they.
put anyone under a magnifying glass and they’ll look pretty much the same ie deeply flawed.
Fed was losing to Davydenko at AO. He admitted to taking a bathroom break so he could wait for the sun to move out of his line of sight.
The Swiss also revealed he had used a toilet break to his advantage at the end of the first set after Davydenko had broken him twice to take the initiative.
‘I was having problems with the sun in my eyes also in the opening set,’ Federer said.
‘I was waiting for it to move. I never use my toilet breaks so I thought I will use it and I hoped that maybe in that time the sun would move maybe one centimetre, maybe three.
vamosrafa
He cleaned up his act considerably after the famous spat with Roddick at the 2008 USO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVh_d2zmeac
whoops
posted wrong clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o28_Vmt7t-8
I loved what he said.
He was being honest.
Roddick was a turd.
Now he has cleaned up his act, is more polished and understands that he has to be careful what he says (even if he is right and just calling it as it is).
This is why Gulbis says the top players are too boring – because they have PR approved (non)answers.
i thoght roddick behaved like an alpha male testosterone charged tosser as well. nole had his faults but so what?? he’s very different now..which player doesn’t have faults for heaven’s sake?
ALLEZZZZ STANNNNNNNNN!!!! IM SO PUMPED
I’m not saying he is faking it , he must be having a pull here and there but he was fine first 3 sets and was already down 2 sets by then.
Stan deserves the win.
Also surprising that djoko is always holding some body part or other when he is down in the match.Thankfully Stan did not buy it like Murray has in the past.
Thats called pulling the Serena lol
Did you not see the blood and level of play? Djokovic apologized and tried his best while on court, did not throw Stan off. Maybe the timing of the break wasn’t the best but then again the rules are there for a reason.
He would have lost regardless. The fact is, the reason Novak has been so good post 2015 is because his serves and returns were fantastic, especially on big points. He has gradually declined in both aspects post AO 2016, and he needs to retool and take a break I think. When you hit 30, it really starts becoming about peaking in the majors.
Stan defo knows how to bring it in slam finals. It’s the day-in-day out consistency that’s a problem but that’s part of what makes him so exciting. Just never know which one will show up.
Stan fully deserved the victory, I was especially impressed by how he used his serves through the match. Novak does have a matchup problem with Stan in slams, partially because they usually meet deep in the slams and Stan has his timing going by that point. Novak isn’t always at his best when he wins majors, perhaps the AO 2016 was an example of it, but since then his serve and to a lesser extent, ROS have gone off the boil.
Time to rethink the schedules and what he wants to achieve. To be honest, I don’t know if he has the motivation to do the retooling required to win multiple majors next year, but if he does, I’m sure he’ll be back to his winning ways. The problem is, him and Becker don’t seem as focused anymore.
Yup… not sure what’s wrong with him. In my view he has been having second serve issues for quite some time now. I doubt it was tactical but his first serve pace were noticeably lower this year in Australia and that he was guarding his second serve may be… the issues have been manifest in the last few months now. There are talks about his private issues as well and some rumours that he has an issue with his wife.
Don’t think he’s going anywhere any time soon though. He will be back at it in Australia. I do however see him pulling out of a couple of tournaments now. He might not but I think he will.
And, yeah he is not at his best in best of 5 in slams. I have said it many times that he is the top best of three sets player but there are a few players who when on their peak level have the edge over him. Stan and Rafa have been two players who fit the bill and Federer too sometimes. But, he is still capable of playing his best and has shown it often enough. He has beaten all these players in slams and is a massive champion. It is all relative.
As NNY mentioned, let’s not forget he won 2 slams and the Nole slam this year….it’s been his year again and he’ll end as no.1 as well.
Vamosrafa (AT 8:04 AM) says:
“There are talks about his private issues as well and some rumours that he has an issue with his wife.”
===
.
You must have read Bristish tabloids. 😆
To add to my post AT 8:59 AM,
[augusta08 AUGUST 31, 2016 AT 7:48 PM]
https://tenngrand.com/social/player-pages/novak-djokovic/comment-page-21/#comment-153378
And correction: Bristish ➽ British
that’s why I wrote ‘rumours’ …I hope that helps you. have seen you cracking the same ‘joke’ 10 times now :/
(AT 1:07 PM),
Djoko himself said in his interview he had personal problems during Wimby. It’s funny that (some of) Djoko fans say that it’s just a rumour created by tabloids. 🙂
Hope that helps.
What do some of Djoko fans say is a rumour created by tabloids?
What a load of BS.
Rafa’s career statistics on Wikipedia states clearly that 2004 was the last time that Rafa failed to make it to a slam semi before this year. It’s funny that (some of self-claimed) Rafa fans say that it’s factually incorrect. 🙂
Hope that helps.
What is this mythical “peak” level that Stan and overblown-on-this-website “Rafa” and only ‘occasionally’ Federer have that Djokovic doesn’t have? Novak has as high a peak as anyone I’ve seen. It’s almost impossible to separate players on their peak-based level at this stage. Going by such mythical notions, Sampras probably has a higher ‘peak-level’ than Nadal and Djokovic put together. It’s easy for most defensive baseliners to feel cornered when the more aggressive player gets it going and Stan typically plays these matches with very little on the line for him in terms of history. It’s amazing to watch but Novak is the guy everyone’s chasing right now and it’s not an easy pressure to deal with if it’s also dribbled with other problems. I’m no fan of his (far from it) but it is ridiculous to make such claims.
don’t know why you always have to come across as aggressive and call things ridiculous which you couldn’t understand- not our fault 🙂 Anyway, here is the answer to your questions:
-Djokovic lacks (ON A RELATIVE SCALE) firepower in his baseline game when compared to Nadal and Federer. Djokovic is insanely consistent and efficient but he does have the monster forehands possessed by Nadal and Federer. For e.g., Nadal can change the entire rally with one forehand DTL and it is over. When he is aggressive with his forehand, he is able to impose his game a lot more authoritatively against Stan as Stan’s gets pushed back and his backhand can’t be the same.
-Look at the rhythm Stan gets against Djokovic. He won’t be able to get the same rhythm on a consitent basis against Fed and esp Rafa when those two are on/near their best levels. Djokovic is a wall and actually an aggressive baseliner. He can dictate play and stay on the baseline but yeah it is a fact that he lacks fiepower ON A RELATIVE basi. His backhand his worldclass but throw in a decent backhand slice to his backand and he can’t generate that much pace. Same for his regular CC backhand.
-Some examples might help you :
i) french Open 2014 final: Nadal lost the first set but then his forehand DTL came into play right from the first game. It was totally on fire and that shot alone decided the whole match literally. It was too big and too good for any of Djokovic’s shots. It had such an impact that Djokovic mentioned Nadal’s forehand DOWN THE LINE specifically in the presser and said he had no answers today!! I have never seen a player naming a specific shot of their opponent like that…
2 USO 2013 is another example on a hard court this time. Nadal’s backhand was actually a safe shot that day and he was hitting a lot of slices but one shot that changed the tempo of the match again and again was his forehand DTL.
*Watch the fifth set of the 2013 RG semi and you will notice the same.
-Djokovic is perhaps the most balanced base-liner amongst the three but firepower a little bit of an issue when compared to the very best. That is why I feel Nadal has had more success against him in slams and not masters because Nadal tends to peak in the later stages of slams with regards to his aggressive game.
-You need to watch highlights of some matches if it is still not clear. Even Nadal’ backhand CC has a lot more firepower than Djokovic’s backhand. Djokovic’s backhand>> Nadal’s but again a littlee bit of that firepower issue which puts him in a tough situation against Stan! It was interesting to see AGAIN that in set 3 alone Stan had 18 winners and Djoko had 22 winners for the whole match.
Hence, he runs into that problem against Stan. Also notice that Stan gets away with numerous slice returns and starts the rally. We know what happens when you give ordinary sliced returns to Nadal’s or Federer’s forehands 🙂
vr,
I appreciate the examples you gave in specific matches regarding Rafa’s DTL forehand. I happen to think that this shot has been a game changer. It’s probably the single shot that gave Rafa such an advantage in slam matches with Novak. That was the key
to Rafa regaining the advantage against Novak after losing seven consecutive matches in a row starting in 2011 and ending at the 2012 AO, where rafa found the answers. Rafa would get the better of Novak in slams starting with the clay season in 2012 and for the next two years. The DTL forehand was the key to his success.
Using Novak’s own words to the effect that he had no answer for Rafa’s DTL forehand was also important. How often do you hear a player say something like that?
We know that Rafa has not been himself or at his best for the last two years. He has now lost a number of consecutive matches to Novak. But this is not the same Rafa who dominated Novak in slams from the clay season in 2012 through to the clay season of 2014.
Watching the matches would be an even better way of appreciating the significance of that one shot.
NNY, I just read this. Your post backed up mine perfectly, thanks.
And yeah, Novak mentioning one specific shot and saying he had not no answers is unheard of! Have never heard ANY player saying Delpo’s inside-out forehand or Fed’s inside out forehand was just too much for me. Players usually refer to their forehand or backhand being too good on the day. The impact Rafa’s forehand DTL has had on the biggest of stages is HUGE. I’ve literally seen Djokovic feeling like pulling his hair out whenever Rafa got that shot going.
Even though Rafa was not hitting his DTL forehand well in 2011 overall, he did start going for it in USO 2011 3rd set and we saw one of the highest quality sets of tennis in that year with Rafa stealing the set from Novak after coming from a break deficit.
As you said, it is truly a game changer. In the examples I mentioned, he was even hitting some half-volley forehand DTL winners!!
I don’t think Djokovic lacks firepower per se, he definitely hits the ball with a lot of weight. The difference between him and Fed/Rafa is how they attack. With the latter, they vary pace and spin, and thus the change of rhythm they impose on opponents when attacking is greater. Nadal uses heavy topspin to achieve the slower rhythm before he injects pace, and Federer probably does it best after a backhand slice.
The rhythm Novak offers however is relatively constant, there is not much variation in height and spin. His strength lies in redirection of the ball. I think this is simply a case of technique, Djokovic holds his racquet much higher up along the grip, which means he doesn’t use his wrist as much as the other two when he hits.
Nole has an anodyne game that’s why it’s good for someone with a great game to get the better of him plus his luck through the draw was unfair even though it wasn’t his fault.
But you didn’t answer my question..how is he able to hit more winners than Rafa in a lot of their matches?
You mean since Rafa has been suffering from illness and injuries?
No, I mean to say in their head to head history basically. Do you want me to post statistics or you get the idea? 🙂 Don’t have to turn everything into Rafa’s favor without making sense lol
VR, not taking side in this argument but Rafa doesnt hit more winners than Djoko not because he couldnt but because of the way he plays, ie more patient in constructing the points and not in a hurry to go for straight winners.
When Djoko played against Rafa, he usually was the more aggressive one, preferring to go for his shots as much as possible because he knew getting entangled in long rallies with Rafa would be exhausting both physically and mentally.
However, on clay at the FO, the role was reversed; Rafa was the more aggressive one, we saw that in his matches vs Djoko in FO2012/2013/2014; he always started out being the more aggressive one in those matches hence he gained the upperhand in all those matches (2015 was the exception for obvious reasons). Perhaps RG was Rafa’s well guarded backyard, he would not allow anyone to invade it without him fighting to protect it and once Rafa stepped on the clay at RG, he felt so at home on it that he need not take much time to familiarize himself on it.
We also have seen Rafa being aggressive on the HCs and what he could achieve on them, ie NA HC swing of USO SERIES in 2013, beating Djoko there twice. It all boils down to how confident Rafa is with his game, if he’s confident he can produce more aggressive offensive tennis and goes for his shots and hit more winners.
PS. That FO2013 SF, Rafa hit some excellent BH DTL too for some deep touching the corner winners. I feel Rafa needs to get that BhDTL shot working well from his toolbox in addition to his other CC and DTL shots for him to turn things around vs Djoko this time.
Luckystar, thanks for adding those points. I did not want to create an essay out of my post so didn’t write some stuff.
Actually, what you have written is part of what I have been saying. If you noticed, I have written to Nadline twice here that Djokovic hits more winners than Nadal in their matches! I will even go on to say that Djoko is the superior BO3 sets player because he is able to come out playing more aggressive. There are matches where Rafa has done it in masters and defeated Djoko by being more offensive but it is the best of five sets in slams where Rafa has often been able to find his best snd he unleashes his aggressive shots.
The USO 2010 is another example where Rafa’a forehand was the stand-out shot.
Djoko’s brand of tennis rushes opponents into erros when he is playing well. He stays close to the baseline, takes the ball early snd changes direction like NOBODY else can.
Anyone reading these posts, try yo understand that I started them to highlight why stan gets into that rhythm against Djokovic and secondly why Nadal has had success against him in slams.
Remember Rafa vs Delpo wimbledon 2011 match? Delpo was hitting his sick forehands but thankfully Rafa was feeling his Forehand esp the inside out one so well and he actually ended with MORE FOREHAND WINNERS than delpo! Now watch the delpo vs Djo wimbledon battle in 2013…Djoko won but in a diff way.
Djoko can be very aggressive, flattens out his shots more against Rafa but he constructs points and then goes for winners.
If he great firepower in either wing, he would have been able to push stan back much easier and not let stan get away with those sliced returns.
Actually watch the 2010 USO final as well and see how Rafa also used the same tactic. He just blocked back first serves and that was often enough to start a rally BECAUSE of what I have been mentioning. Givr those same returns to Fedal and they’ll kill you.
Djoko has his own weapons and strengths but to me this is undoubtedly a weakness (ONLY A RELATIVE ONE) because his firepower is still way above the average field.
Ah, Luckystar, sorry I thought your post was in response to my post to Fed fan! Haha
Yeah you are write about that one. Rafa has been able to hit more winners in some of their slam matches when he comes out playing his best tennis. USO 2010, FO 2013 (esp fifth set) are examples.But generally, Djoko hits more winners against Rafa esp in B03 because he comes out as the more aggressive player.
You brought Rafa into the conversation remember? I made a comment about Djoker’s style and you immediately compared him to Rafa.
If you have to compare them, Rafa’s takes far more risks with his game but Djoker plays safe unless pushed. By playing safe, Djoker does benefit from his opponents making mistakes. This is not the opposite of hitting winners.
Rafa plays with high intensity in all his matches. Take the SF between Monfils & Djoko at the USO this year, where Monfils handed the first 2 sets to Djoko on a plate. Djoko just moved from side to side hitting mundane shots and not entertaining the viewer. The match was soooooooo boring to watch. Had Rafa been on the other side of the net instead of Djoko, it would have been an exhilarating experience for the viewer.
Yeah because you can’t seem to understand things unless Rafa is brought into the picture! Standing close to the baseline, changing direction frequently and actually painting the baseline with second serve returns is RISKY tennis.
For Rafa’s game, please read my other posts.
No he doesn’t. Nadal on an average plays the safest brand of tennis I’ve ever seen. His serves on an average rarely clock as much as Novak’s do. He stands much further away from the baseline than Novak. And just look at the net clearance. That alone should tell you he doesn’t play risky tennis. Far from it.
He’ll have an occasional tournament where he’s supremely confident and goes for more than usual. But on an average he’s as far away from taking risks as a player can be. Nadal laid out the blueprint for defensive tennis in the game and Novak, if anything, has taken his cues from there. Unfortunately, that is the kind of tennis that succeeds more often in today’s game.
Your pen name tells me all I need to know about your biased views,
Unlike nadline’s pen name no doubt.
Fedfan, have you thought of writing fiction? You’ll do well.
And speaking from her vast experience at doing just that fedfan, she’d know.
I was keeping my fingers crossed that Rafa would give me the ultimate birthday present yesterday by winning the title but that was not to be.
didn’t see the match. just had a look at live scores last night for a while and went to bed. but nole shouldn’t have let it get into something physical which he was probably going to lose. he had so many break points in the first set when already up a break and played a game with several dfs when serving for the set to donate his serve. he could easily have won the first set 6-1 or 6-2. then he would have conserved energy. he again donated his serve early in the second for no reason with another couple dfs..had 0-40 the very next game on stan’s serve and couldn’t take the points. then i went to bed. but looking at the scores at that point he could and should have been coasting that match. i don’t care how well stan might have played later. he was making masses of unforced errors and the usual nole would have just put him away not let him back into the match and given him belief. i had a feeling that that would be very costly and that nole would lose it physically.
by jan next year when he’s had a chance to rest he’s still the absolutely prohibitive fave to win ao.
is it actually a thing which happens to great champions when they get older that they stop being able to convert break points??!
we all know fed has been like that for ages now and rafa has struggled as well in the last couple of years. now nole isn’t converting them either!!
just read that nole was only 3/17 on break points. that’s the story of the match right there. that and the uncharacteristic double faults, several a game, to donate his serve at crucial moments. nerves really, mixed in with the fact that sth is obviously affecting his serve, sth physical.
i said that stan would win. but looking at the stats nole could have won that match in straights given the chances he had and the number of unforced errors from stan
You’re exactly right. 3/17 isn’t going to get it done and seems to be a symptom of great players feeling the pressure in the third term of their careers. Same for Fed, Rafa.
Stan was a deserved winner, ifs, buts, woulds, coulds, shoulds, mean doodle squat in the real world, nothing against Novak but its his fault that he couldnt convert on BPs, and not Stans fault that he could, he took his chances Novak didnt so tough bloody luck im afraid, Novaks an amazing player, and will probably go on to be the best ever only time will tell, however as the great champion he is, he certainly wont be making a load of BS excuses, he will say Stan was the better player and move on ….
I actually have to agree with Alison regarding the final. Stan was the better player in that match. I think vr did a great job during the live blog of pointing out what Stan was doing to take control of the match. Novak’s serve was off. You don’t see him have that many DF’s in the crucial moments of s slam final. Stan was physical and stayed with him in done tough rallies and seemed to wear down Novak with his powerful groundstrokes.
I am not a fan of either player, so it was easier for me to watch the match objectively. Stan got stronger as the match went on. Novak certainly did not take advantage of his break chances and some of that was because Of Stan’s clutch serving.
There are no excuses. Stan deserved the win I think Novak will be fine. He needs to take some time and decompress. He still had s great year and there is no readon to think he is going anywhere.
Alison, i didn’t see the match. i just saw live scores and the play by play for the first set and a bit. it endlessly signalled break points for nole and unforced errors for stan. that was all i was commenting on. quite why you want to be rude and use phrases like tough bloody luck, and bs excuses is beyond me. i have my partiality and way of seeing and you have your’s that’s all. i remember being very polite and welcoming to you when you first came on this site and don’t appreciate your ott language. you could have said the exact same thing without being rude.
New news: Djoko was struggling with his serve ‘because of what he carried into this tournament’ – a problem with the ARM.
US OPEN
Sunday, September 11, 2016
Novak Djokovic
Press Conference
Q. “…I don’t know if you were nervous, but two doubles in the same set is not usual for you.”
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: “I made a lot of double faults throughout this tournament. I was struggling with that shot and with, you know, with the motion, with the movement and on the serve, with the technique because of what I carried into this tournament.
So, you know, I was working a lot on it and trying to find that rhythm, but my body has kind of compensated and, you know, made some different things to protect the problem I had with the arm.
You know, unfortunately it wasn’t — the serve wasn’t there. When it was needed it wasn’t there, and in the big matches like this you need the serve. I lost decisive games in second and third set. Just handed him over with some unforced errors and bad serves. But, you know, I guess I was trying to protect the serve, I guess, with other shots, but it wasn’t to be today.”
http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2016-09-11/novak_djokovic_interview_final.html?chip=1
The poster AT 1:16 PM is factually incorrect.
Stan has been the 2nd best GS player the past 3 years. No small feat. Nobody else besides Nole and Stan has more than 1 in that period. Those are the big 2 right now. Murray could only beat Robonic for his 1 GS so he is 3rd.
2nd best GS player.
Yup agreed.
That’s what happens for him when he leaves his wife and young child to focus on his (young) tennis (player).
#MirkasRight
She doesnt look as young as she is but I dont think we should be worried about his personal life. His business.
No, I don’t worry about him. She just turned 20 BTW.
But how a person behaves off the court, for me, affects how I respect him on the court as well as off. It is different for everybody.
That’s one big reason why my favourite player is Rafa.
Fair enough.
Novak speaks to this after his loss yesterday:
“For me, success is not just winning tennis matches and winning trophies, you know. It’s more than that. I guess my main source of playing tennis, main source of motivation for playing the sport, is because I really like it. It’s my choice to do it.”
“But, you know, once you get to the top and you have that privilege, status, and position, then I guess the importance of what you say, how you behave, what you do, is much larger. Just not comparable to any other position in the rankings or so forth.
So I guess that kind of privilege, status, taught me a lot of lessons in life, and I got experience. I learned a lot about myself, about who I should be, who I should become, and it’s an everyday evolution for me and for everybody else.”
Again I agree. I do not judge players based on their personal lives. I am not the morality police. We do not know what happens behind closed doors.
I judge Stan based on what he does on the court. I also don’t judge him based on the age of his girlfriend.
No, that’s what happens when an underachiever hires a great coach that can inspire belief. A great coach can do that for the right person. If you’ve ever been in a relationship like that, it feels like magic.
Years ago – 6 or 7 – I read something from a writer saying that if Stan played as well as he practiced he’d be a worldbeater. Maybe I remember because I’d always thought Stan’s game was better than his ranking was then. Anyway, Stan is now, at times, playing as well as he practices. But even his coach says he never knows what he’s going to get from Stan from week to week.
Ramara,
I think you make some good points. I also always thought Stan’s game was better than his ranking. I remember when he beat Murray at the USO one year in the third round, I believe. I remember thinking how well he played and why wasn’t he getting better results. That was before Magnus Norman came along.
This is a case where a player found a coach who was able to make him believe in himself. The results speak for themselves.
Agreed. Magnus deserves a great deal of credit.
+1 NNY, Magnus is a genius!
@Ramara, just wanted to say that your posts are generally very good. Your contributions here are much welcome 🙂
@vamosrafa, thank you for your kind comment!
Given that Nole considered not playing being a finalist is a very fortuitous result. Also very happy to see big jump by Delpo to 64. Great for him.
Wow! Delpo goes up to 64 in the rankings! That is great news for him.
Djoko may have carried some injuries picked up along the way through the long season; he’s not that young anymore and he’s human like the others (he’s not a robot).
Djoko has a complete game that even though certain part or parts of it is/are not working, he still could find his way to a win most of the times. He’s not no.1 for nothing, he’s just that good.
These players, when in the zone, are/were simply unplayable – Fed during his heydays on quick surfaces; Rafa on clay; Djoko at the AO; Stan in slam winning mode ie AO2014, FO2015; Cilic at USO2014 SF/F are some examples. Its difficult to compare who plays at a higher level when in the zone, as it depends on the surface one excel on.
stan at ao 2014!! rafa was injured…
Nah, I was talking about Stan at AO2014 throughout the tournament, not just the final. I watched most of his matches that AO and was mighty impressed, esp vs Djoko and Berdych.
ok fair enough. seem to remember that nole was up a break in the fifth set of that match and again gave up his serve without much pressure. quite odd really. i think part of the problem he has against stan is that he simply doesn’t get as fired up against him as he does against fed and rafa. we know how nole is obsessed with playing for history and playing against the greats seems to just get him way more motivated.
fed has got to be feeling very fed up (no pun intended) that he’s injured this year. if he continued his form of last year he could have been looking at winning both wimby and the us and would now be at #19. stone the crows!
Actually Rafa should be fed up too about his own injury. Seriously, Djoko wasnt very impressive too at the FO and Rafa would have his chances for another FO trophy if not for his wrist.
I like Magnus Norman, he is a really cool guy and has done wonderful things for Stan, helping him to become the slam champion that he is now. A good coach is truly important in helping his charge fulfil his potential.
I agree about Magnus Norman. He took a player who had been a journeyman living in the shadow of Fed and helped him believe that he could beat the top players. Late in his career, Stan made some moves to try to change his career. I also noticed that he lost some weight and got more toned and fit.
Stan had the game to hang with the top players but not the mentality. Norman helped him get to that next level and it’s paid off.
Congrats to Rudolph for his win over Djovak Nokovic.
http://baseline.tennis.com/article/61025/meet-djovak-nokovic
Amy my post wasnt directed towards you it was merely a generalisation, so apologies if you took it that way, maybe the language was a bit choice too ….
^Amy to add you were very welcoming towards me when i started posting here, so i regret the way i came across, RC knows me from years ago, and although i wouldnt ask her to take sides she knows ive always done my best to be fair, oh dear 🙁
that’s ok alison. i’m sorry if i was a bit hasty myself. i was really tired yesterday after working all weekend so prone to mis-understand things. let’s just forget about it please? it’s not important. talk to you anon!
To our aggressive ‘FedFan’, I have replied to your aggressive comment @ 11.06 am. Please do have a look.
To add to my post to Fed Fan in response to his 11.06 am post:
I am not surprised that Djokovic has demolished Stan in their indoor meetings. The faster, lower bounce conditions will surely benefit Djokovic and take that problem away which I mentioned in my post. Djokovic won’t have to generate his own pace that much and he can rush Stan into errors.
Djokovic’s stragegy is to take time away from Stan and rush him. I do think that if Djokovic did not have problems with his serve, he would have most probably own yesterday. He wouldn’t have let Stan get into that groove. On a clay court , Stan has a lot of time and again that issue comes into play.
I hope you do realise, that taking time away from a player is the essence of being aggressive. So I don’t know what mythical firepower you’re referring to. Playing indoors has nothing to do with the ability or lack thereof to generate one’s own pace. What a ludicrous thing to say. I doubt you ever watched Sampras on carpet.
hahahahahaha!
MYTHICAL firewpoer?? Nadal’s forehand has mythical firepower? Del Potro’s forehand has mythical firepower?? No Fedfan will us what firepower is because all of a sudden is a very complicated concept!! wow…
If you bother reading other posts, I have explained to nadline above that Djokovic is an AGGRESSIVE player because of his ability to take time away from his opponent! It was you who called him a defensive baseliner anyway!!
Playing indoors has nothing to do with generating pace ??? What is this guy talking about! It becomes easier to take time away from opponents and THAT ASPECT would obviously help Djokovic against wawrinka! What has Sampras anything to do with it??
1. Djokovic plays more aggressively than Nadal. That doesn’t make him an aggressive player. His style of tennis has nothing do with the weight of his shot and everything to do with the wider canvas of his strategy.
2. Who has problems understanding English now? Did I say Nadal lacked firepower or was my original premise based on the notion that your comparison for “peak-to-peak” superiority based one some enchanted notion of “firepower” is wrong? Learn to read and then come back.
3. Yes, Del Po hits his FH extremely hard and flat. I don’t what that has to do with your premise that Nadal or someone else has a superior “peak” to Novak based on a notion that you cannot adequately justify.
4. The rest of diatribe is too stupid and incoherent to address.
LOL, also when did pace and spin become determinants of who gets the better “peak?” I’m going to repeat myself here: Djokovic doesn’t have an inferior peak-level (an indeterminate notion) to either Stan or the centre of your lame comparison: Nadal. It is impossible to ever, objectively quantify a peak, let alone do so on an arbitrary metric. He’s as good a BO5 player as any of these and he doesn’t have generate a ridiculous amount of RPM to somehow justify himself.
Anyone who has to make their points with rudeness and disrespect, really has nothing to say. Because there is no reason to insult prople here in any discussion.
I do not put any stock in a response or argument that includes demeaning language directed at others. No one here is God or should assume that they know more than anyone else.
fedfan is unemployed (by his own definition).
What goes around comes around.
I guess he just can’t stand living in a world without dear Roger.
Djokovic confirmed that he did damage to his body because he was protecting an injury. This does happen so no wonder his body was breaking down and he is 30 now. It is time we realize even he is human and can get injuries that limit him.
Did you all read about Stans cheeky dig at Roger in post match presser ?
When reporter asked him if he spoke to Fed before final match for tips..he cheekily said tips to lose ? 🙂
Next year is the final year there is any chance for Rafa to win a major. If he does not , he never will anymore
Djokovic is off his beastly mode now and rafa can capitalize provided he does not self destruct.
True. Nadal needs one last French. He’s gotta be ready for that one.
I would think he can go on for 2 more years. So next year and the year after.
No, you obviously do not watch tennis. Djokovic’s BH DTL more than compensates for anything the other guys have on their FH. THAT’s his weapon along with a much better serve than Nadal’s. Both Novak and Nadal are rhythm players. Stop beating around the bush calling Novak a rhythm player a dozen times as if that somehow proves a point.Like Federer, most of Nadal’s matches against Novak have come on clay. Novak’s problem on clay, like Federer is that he doesn’t move nearly as well as Nadal does on the surface. It’s even harder to do so on Chatrier which has massive space behind the baseline and Nadal can stand even further away on returns.
Djokovic did not play well during USO 2013 and he did not play well this year. That doesn’t mean peak-for-peak he’s somehow inferior to the overblown “RAFA” or even Federer. It all depends on the surface they’re playing on. So yeah. You’re being ridiculous. Bye.
I think you have problems understanding english. Try searching the work firepower and it will help you and your ridiculouness.
I wronte it myself that one of Djokovic’s strength is his ability to change direction and he does that better than anybody else. BUT, he does not have extraordinary firepower in that shot either!! What tennis do you watch seriously! It is the best two-handed backhadn DTL but no can’t be compared to Nadal’s forehand DTL that is TWICE as big.
DO you even understand that these posts were started to put into perspective why Stan gets into rhythm against Djokovic more often?! Yes, it is precisely because of that. Ok yeah Djokovic wasn’t playing great in 2014 AO and 2015 FO either then???
Where have I said Nadal is not a rhythm player? quote me here please.
You need to watch Djokovic-Stan matches again.
ALl you know is to use the word ridiclous… simply ignored the explanations because you can’t understand them perhaps…not your fault I guess..
And I don’t understand your obsession with bringing that comparison of peaks! And calling Nadal and DJokovic ‘defensive baseliners’ tells us how much you know about tennis.
I doubt you understand, that a BH DTL is a much harder shot to master for a double hander than a FH DTL. You would, if you ever played the game. You don’t and I’m not going waste any more time engaging with your pointless mythical notions of “firepower” (when you actually have no way of making that determination) and the resultant diatribe.
vr,
Anyone who actually watched the 2013 RG knows that Novak played well on that match. Rafa was serving for the match in the fourth set, but Novak broke him and then win in a TB. He forced a fifth set. I think that fifth set featured some of the best tennis from both guys. Novak was up a break when Rafa was able to reach a whole other level and produce some unbelievable tennis to break back. He ultimately outplayed Novak. But there is no way that any reasonable person could say he did not play well. Rafa just played even better to get the win,
Nadal’s failure to close out that match doesn’t imply Djokovic was on great form. Please. What a ludicrous conclusion to draw. Nadal has had these problems for at least four years now and should’ve won that match in four sets.
Nah, Djoko vs Rafa matches not mostly on clay – clay 21, grass 3, HCs 25. Neither were Fed vs Rafa – clay 15, grass 3, HCs 16.
Rafa > Djoko on clay; Djoko > Rafa on HCs.
Djokovic played a great US 2013 finals. Rafa just played better when it mattered and won. Remember the 3 break-points he saved late in the 3rd set?
LOL, no he didn’t. 2013 was an abysmal year for him after the kind of success he’d had earlier.
Wrong!
For fedfan.
http://www.jobsite.co.uk/
fedfan’s definition of abysmal:
Three slam finals with one slam title, three Masters and a WTF title, his second best year on tour to that point.
I’d stay away from the literary job section fedfan. Not your forte.
Well, there’s always fiction for you for sure. Just get a good editor.
1. I don’t work or live in the UK. 😉
2. Novak pretty much didn’t do anything of note for huge chunks of that season. He was well below par in the W finals and he was well below par in the USO final. He did well at the AO which is a traditional stronghold and then had a lull till MC followed by another lull till the RG finals. So yes, it was an abysmal year by his standards and in accordance with the expectations he had at the start of the season.
His form started to improve a few months into his partnership with Becker.
1. Yes, based on your past accusations, it’s quite obvious you don’t work in the UK (or anywhere else).
No, it was the second best year of his career to that point.
Said Djokovic at the end of 2013:
“Well, next to the run that I had in 2011, this is definitely the second best I’ve had.”
“Overall, it was again very successful Grand Slam year for me.”
You must have quite the life that you consider his second best year in his career to that point as abysmal. By his standards? Obviously not.
He’s below par at USO 2013 final? Did you see his USO2012 final?
He was below par at Wimbledon final? That was because he fought hard vs Delpo in the SF to reach the final. Compared to his 2012 Wimbledon, well, he lost meekly to Fed in the SF.
He didnt do as well at the Masters but still managed to win 3 masters in 2013, same as in 2012. He didnt win any Masters on clay in 2012 but won MC in 2013.
1. You have an unhealthy obsession with my life. Are you a pathological stalker? Looks like it. Time to get a shrink.
2.What Djokovic says or doesn’t say in a press-conference is no reference to what many thought of his level at the time. In any case, it’s a strawman at best.
In fact Djoko was quite unfortunate to have to face Rafa in the SF at the FO because of Rafa’s drop in ranking in 2013, hence he lost some ranking points there, from Finalist points to SF points.
I don’t think either the 2012 or 2013 were great years for Novak. His loss to Fed-I don’t really care. As long as Fed was playing well, which he was, he was always a favourite to win that match. Djokovic doesn’t move well enough on grass to handle a Roger who was pretty much throwing in every shot in his arsenal in the final two matches. The semis were also under the roof and the surface took Roger’s slice very well. That’s all that Roger needed, along with his stellar net play.
2. The loss was neither meek nor any worse than his USO Final performance of 2013 especially given that he is a much better HC player than a GC player.
1. What are you wearing fedfan?
2. Calling Nole’s 2013 abysmal is a strawman at its finest. You really are quite an abysmal hypocrite fedfan. Hilarious.
Yeah, how could 2012 be a great year for Novak finishing No. 1 and all.
What a git.
Losing to a bad back Fed at Wimbledon wasnt losing meekly? Losing to an inspired Rafa at a USO final rated as about the same as losing to bad back Fed on grass?
Just like Djoko was capable of beating Fed at Wimbledon (2-1 vs Fed), Rafa was capable of beating Djoko at the USO (2-1 vs Djoko). Please dont tell me when Fed lost to Djoko at Wimbledon, its because Fed played subpar tennis.
Fedfan, Murray was winning Olympics and USO in 2012, reached final at AO in 2013, won Miami and then won Wimbledon in 2013, had he had any better results than that in his career so far? Yes, he was peaking under the tutorlege of Lendl. The back issue was unfortunate. He had his back surgery after the USO, not during the FO. So who had the cock and bull story now??
Fed didnt have bad back at Wimbledon 2012? Please go and check that up. Djoko played better at Wimbledon 2014 than 2012, exactly! Hence my comment that he lost meekly to bad back Fed in 2012!
Yeah, Fed was playing well in 2012, got to no.1 for 16 weeks before ending the year as no.2 and Djoko was still YE no.1, winning 1 slam, reached another 2 slam finals, a SF; won 3 Masters and the WTF. Murray and Rafa won a slam each, so how was the field not smoking hot in 2012? The trio went on to sweep all slams and Masters in 2013, Ferrer reached his first and only slam final, and Tsonga reached his first SF at FO, so the field was hot, if not smoking hot.
Well, at least hotter than 2014 when Rafa was absent for half a year, Murray was just back from back surgery and not winning much. Stan was the saving grace. In 2015, the competition was even worse that old man Fed at 34 made 2 slam finals and Rafa was not his usual self and Murray wasnt winning much, again the saving grace was Stan.
Luckystar, those are are all quite valid points and OF COURSE they make sense.
Murray was kind of absent from the top level in 2014 and 2015 as he couldn’t find that level he had in that 2012-13 stretch. He has started to find it again now.
The field was pretty hot in 2012 and that’s kind of a fact.
Fedfan won’t realize how matchups and presence of your rivals playing their best impacts the level a player can achieve. It was all roses in 2015 and nobody was quite there to put incessant pressure on Djokovic in 2015. Murray was still finding his level, Rafa was almost non-existant and Fed played really well but lacked that edge due to his age. Djokovic played at a phenomenal level but you can’ ignore the field factor.
Fedfan doesn’t know much about reality other than the federer posters in his bedroom over his bed.
Playing inspired tennis means playing exceptionally well. They do not need inspiration everyday for them to play good tennis as they are just that good being the top guys but they do need that special something (we call inspiration) to play exceptional tennis.
Djoko is the better HC player than Rafa, but that doesnt mean Rafa cant beat him on the HCs. Check their H2H at the HC slams and see for yourself. They are 2-2, dont tell me each time Djoko lost he was playing subpar tennis! Even in 2011 when Djoko was playing ‘inspired’ tennis, he had to fight so hard to defeat Rafa at the USO and Djoko then suffered a back injury and had to skip the Asian swing that year. Rafa has to play inspired tennis to beat Djoko at the HC slams precisely because Djoko is the better HC player.
Yeah, I dont think Djoko’s 2013 was abysmal, compared to his 2012. He lost at FO and USO to Rafa simply because Rafa played inspired tennis.
In fact, Djoko played worse tennis at USO2012 final(compared to his 2013). Djoko was also playing better at FO2013 compared to FO2012 when both Seppi and Tsonga pushed him to the limit in their matches.
Fedfan, what were you talking about? 2012 and 2013 werent great years for Djoko? Of course cant compare to his 2011, but amidst tougher competition than what he had these past two years, he was doing very well.
I mean back then his two main rivals, Fed and Rafa were still playing great tennis (not so much for Fed in 2013) and Murray was also peaking. He still managed to retain his YE no.1 in 2012 and narrowly lost to Rafa in 2013 when Rafa played inspired tennis the whole season.
His 2014 to me was his worst season in the past five to six years, still managed a slam and 4 Masters and YE no.1.
He was losing meekly to Fed at W2012; that was his worst performance in the past six years at Wimbledon except this year.
That’s the point lucky.
fedfanatic’s tinfoil view is that a field without the likes of Roddick, Hewitt, Blake and aging Agassi and Henman is not very ‘smoking hot’.
Murray was peaking in 2013? In what universe was he peaking? The Dull fanboy revisionist history world? Murray was still recovering from a back surgery and skipped RG in order to compete at Wimbledon where he did play well. And that was it. He’s gone on record to say how much pain he’d been in before then when asked about Fed’s decision to skip RG this year.
I’d say Novak played a LOT better in 2014 than he did in 2013.
Losing to bad back Fed? Capable of beating Fed? LOL Fed is BY FAR the best grass-courter of this era and probably all time. If he’s lost in the recent years at Wimbledon that has everything to do with mileage and little to do with a defensive baseliner on grass. The way Federer had played in 2012, not only at Wimbledon, is more than enough to lay out a picture of exactly how well he was playing that year. Particularly when he took the No. 1 ranking at 31, from Novak by the end of that tournament.
And yes, I AM going to say that Roger hasn’t played well at Wimbledon the past two-three years. He can swat aside Murray because he really hasn’t much to hurt Roger with unless Roger is playing really bad. For the most part, Andy’s game doesn’t bother Roger much. Against Novak, he needed to play well and he needed to move well. He hasn’t. It’s only natural and it’s there for all to see. His FH has declined massively, his movement hasn’t been there since at all since 2013 and the only thing helping him right now, is a good serve, thanks to the new racquet and his ability to keep people guessing. Getting Edberg to work on the net game certainly helped too. His variety contributed to his longevity but to even think of Novak as being a grass-courter on par with Roger is hilarious. And a sign of someone who literally started watching tennis in 2008.
As for losing to an “inspired” Rafa. It really doesn’t matter. Inspired or not, Novak is leagues ahead of Nadal on HC and barring a set and half played well below par. And lol, are you telling me that all the times Nadal has lost to Djokovic in a major he hasn’t been “inspired” enough? Unbelievable. I don’t buy such cock and bull.
fedfan’s not yet old enough to leave his mommy’s basement.
Talk about dull. Dull indeed.
What a whinging fanboy.
WTF are you even on this site for anyways?
As Andy would say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtNxV4yZeE
This is the dumb comment that you started trolling with:
“Going by such mythical notions, Sampras probably has a higher ‘peak-level’ than Nadal and Djokovic put together.”
Do you realize how idiotically contradictory that statement is?
First you say it’s ridiculous and mythical, and then you turn around and apply it yourself???
What a dumba$$.
atul,
Sorry, I did not see your comment before I posted my response. I basically said the sabe thing, but it’s good to know that you saw it the same way!
It’s just unfortunate that anyone has to make their point by name calling and insulting someone else. That does not a coherent argument make! If you have to resort to insults, then you don’t have an argument’
Er…Djoko’s BHDTL is/was never going to be comparable to the much superior FH of Rafa and Fed.
Rafa beat both Fed and Djoko on clay not only because he moves better than both, but also because of his topspin FH. People talked about Rafa’s CC FH to Fed’s SHBH, and said that Djoko could handle that same CC FH better, but Rafa also has his inside out CC FH and his FHDTL that caused problems for Djoko.
Prior to 2015, Rafa was also quick enough on clay to run around his BH to hit his I/I FH DTL. Rafa’s FH weapon, together with his movement, was enough to beat Djoko at the FO despite Djoko having a better serve and ROS, and despite Djoko’s BH.
^LOL, yes it does. Just because a certain kind of FH may cause problems for Djokovic doesn’t mean the reverse doesn’t work. Djokovic’s BH when on, gives fits to pretty much anyone he’s facing. That is why this “peak-to-peak” BS doesn’t hold.
Fedfan’s name says it all.
Give him a break Lucky/VR.
He’s too attached to his fading hero and there’s no logic with a rabid fanboy like that.
#GetWellSoon
#HopeYouFindANewJob
Nobody says that BH doesnt work, its just doesnt match the level of Fed and Rafa’s FH, I thought that’s obvious!
You talk of Novak’s BHDTL shot as if its the go to shot but how often he can hit that? Novak’s BH, be it CC or DTL can never match up with Rafa’s FH CC or DTL or I/O CC on clay, simple as that. If not, how come Novak kept losing to Rafa at the FO? Its on the HC that Novak has the edge as he hits a flatter shot whilst Rafa’s topspin doesnt work as well on the HC.
Yes it does. 😉 And he’s used it very often actually, particularly in 2011. It’s not like the DTL FH is a regular feature of Dull’s play. He needs to be supremely confident to hit those or, as is the case now, hit them to compensate for his decline. Not like it’s made much difference lately. In fact, given Nadal’s technique on his FH I’m surprised he hasn’t had wrist problems earlier in his career.
And you just made my point for me. Who does well at their so-called “peak-level” is dependent on the surface. Not on who is better.
Ha, Djoko only did his BHDTL well in 2011 and since then he hardly hit it often as he couldnt maintain that level! Rafa hit his FHDTL very well in 2013 and also in 2014 FO. In fact he won that FO mainly because of his FHDTL. Compared to Djoko, Rafa used his FHDTL more often (prior to 2015) than Djoko used his BHDTL.
Well, only Rafa could hit that topspin FH without problem. Wrist injuries, well that happened to many players, do they all have bad technique? Fed has his back issue, does that mean he also has bad serving technique?
Novak said it himself – he had no answer for the DTL forehand! So that is from the man himself! There you have it.
Case closed!
Lol WUT? I’ve seen him use that shot quite often. Mind you, Nadal hasn’t used that shot often enough to be called a regular feature of his game. It’s a good strategic ploy. That’s it.
Either fedfan is unemployed by his own definition or he needs a third monitor.
^Yes, do come and install a third monitor given how jobless you seem to be….perpetually. But then, it’s likely you don’t know how to do it. I hope you got an education though. Or did you drop out of college to sit in mommy’s basement and troll here? Looks like it.
Go back to jolly ol’ fedfan. You can check the site I gave you.
Funny that you have definition of jobless for others that don’t seem to apply to yourself.
A lot of that going around but you at least seem to be the leader on at least one thing in your obviously small and hypocritical life.
^I don’t need to check anything you send or do not send me given its general irrelevance.
But looks like I was right. You’re basement loser afterall. I certainly seem to have touched a nerve there. 😉
Yes you do need to check it fedfan. As a matter of fact, I know that you already have.
The only thing that touches a nerve is your hypocrisy fedfan – my funny bone to be exact.
Do go on, dear chap.
The difference is: Rafa was hitting his FHDTL without missing, in 2013 and 2014; whilst Djoko hit his BHDTL and missed many, hence he stopped hitting that shot for quite a while. Its only in his second best year so far, in 2015, that he was hitting his BHDTL with authority again.(2015 being his 2nd best year in terms of the level of tennis he played, not the results he got, as the field was generally weaker in 2015 than 2011).
I’m not really getting the difference. It’s not like the field was smoking hot in 2013 either and they both have two years when they’ve used that shot well and consistently.
I guess the bottomline is this: There is almost no way to judge whose peak is better at this stage. Certainly not on arbitrary metrics of “firepower”. The best comparison can only be made surface-wise and even that is subject to a number of variants.
According to fedfan, the only time the field was “smoking hot” was from 2003-07 (except on clay).
You’re a vairiant fedfan of a different sort.
Nah, you’re making a comparison of Djoko’s BH to Fed’s and Rafa’s FH? That’s ridiculous.
Yes, you’re embarrassing yourself (even by your own standards) fedfan.
Get back to “work”.
Im relieved you said that Amy, thanks for getting back to me, i know the feeling about working too hard lol 😉 ….
yes let’s put it all behind us alison! not great posting when exhausted is it? i mean, i lose all perspective! going to take a bit of time off in the brit heatwave tomorrow….
take care!!
Amy im a Brit too, i live in Norfolk, and yeah boiling at the moment, anyhow Novaks entering the part of the year where hes the most dominant, he will be the favorite in the asian swing, and at the WTFs, still alot to play for, enjoy the tennis, and also the heatwave 😉 ….
alison, i live in the south east of england as well. not as east as norfolk though which gets really hot!! am more concerned about rafa than nole in the autumn. he did well this time last year and won all this group matches at the wtf. this year he may not even get there which would be a bummer. hope he manages it!! don’t want his ranking to drop…
Don’t like using such words but how do you respond to someone who has BS, ridiculous, stupid etc for all comments his brain can’t interpret.
Fedfan’s post have so much ridiculousness now that there is not enough time to list them all. Some key points:
-Fedfan in this MYTHICAL world thinks Murray had surgery before French Open 2013!!! LOLLLLL!! Murray’s surgery took place in September 2013
-Fedfan doesn’t understand what firepower is and thinks it is a subjective idea! HOW ABSURD IS THAT! To say Djokovic’s backhand ‘more than compensates’ for Nadal’s and Fed’s forehands is just :S :S :S
No point writing long post to this guy. He will ignore the points to which he has no answer and pick out a handful to call them BS.
So, Fedfan, where the hell is DJokovic’s backhand DTL against Wawrinka?? Can you tell me how many clean backhand winners he is hitting with his backhand DTL? Watch how federer uses his backhand slice to get back into rallies against Djokovic because a deep slice to Djokovic’s backhand (even with good net clearance) is often enough to get you back! Watch the AO 2012 and see how even Nadal’s backhand Slice DTL was not being putaway by Djokovic! It is definitely a relative weakness Djokovic has as he can’t generate enough action on that shot. Watch how Pouille Killed so many of Nadal slices.
Fedfan has no answer as to how Stan keeps getting away by hitting medicore sliced returns to Djokovic and still ends up controlling far more rallies!
Fedfan’s obsession with comparisons peaks is his own and he is blaming me! Why on earth do you not get that the firepower element was discussed primarily to explain why Stan is able to get into rhythm agains Djokovic. Djokovic has his own strengths but you have ZERO idea how matchups work! If djokovic had a massive forehand like Nadal or Federer he could have turned around so many rallies against Stan and not get hit 18 winners by Stan in one set alone and hitting 22 winners in three sets!
-Fedfan talks about Sampras’s PEAK and compares it to Djo/Nadal’s peaks and then says it is so stupid and BS to compare peaks . LOL LOL LOL
-Fedfan has zero understanding about match ups! He doesn’t realize that in 2011 Nadal’s forehand did not have enough variety and Nole was in his comfort zone. In 2011 end Rafa added more tip to his weight (TO ADD EVEN MORE FIREPOWER IN HIS FOREHAND) and started going for more inside-out and DTL forehands. He found some new serving patterns and totally turned the tables that year! Watch highlights of his French Open match and see how dominant Rafa’s forehand is in their baseline rallies. Clearly stands out.
-So Rafa is better than Djokovic just because he moves better on clay? HAHAHAHAHAHA! How the hell was Djokovic playing so much closer to Nadal in best of three sets on clay (for e.g hamburg 2008) but got smoked in RG 2008 in a few weeks time?? Is he saying Nadal started moving better in RG?! Nadal’s FOREHAND reached a whole new level in RG 2008(backhand plays its own role). To deny that Nadal’s forehand is not the reason he has had superiority over Fed and Djoko is just ……. LOL…. To top it all, Djoko was even asked to name the toughest shot he has ever faced,his answer: Nadal’s forehand.
-In Fed fan’s view, 2014 Nole was better than 2013 Nole… but, he still fails to see how Nadal’s forehand decided matters in RG 2014 final and nothing else mattered when it started firing set 2 onwards. WATCH HIGHLIGHTS !
-what is this absurd repitition that nadal is overblown on this website? Am I saying Nadal is the best server or returner in tennis or has the best backhand in tennis? Only calling him the best in which he actually is!
-Fedfan’s brain can’t interpret why firepower was being discussed. He might do it in a few days time may be.
Fedfan’s gem:
“I doubt you understand, that a BH DTL is a much harder shot to master for a double hander than a FH DTL. You would, if you ever played the game. You don’t and I’m not going waste any more time engaging with your pointless mythical notions of “firepower”…”
HOW THE HELL DOES the fact that two-backhanded DTL is harder to hit (which is again crap but let’s believe it for now) prove that Djokovic’s backhand DTL is as effective as Nadal’s or Federer’s forehands!!???? Don’t give a crap whether it is tougher for a player to execute, the point is, it just can’t have the same effect esp when you can’t generate massive power (or unless you are Stan Wawrinka lol). No wonder Djokovic often runs around his backhand because the damage you can do (in terms of opening the court, hitting bigger) can’t generally be the same as with the forehand. And for your limited knowledge, it is totally dependant on the player what he finds easier. Hitting backhands DTL comes so naturally to Djokovic that he won’t find it too tough but someone like Nadal finds it hell tough! Wawrinka also finds it quite natural go to DTL with his backhand and he has more comfortable going DTL with his backhand than his forehand. YOu can find hundred other examples!
-FedFan can’t understand that the conversation started while analyzing Djokovic’s matchup against Wawrinka and that Djokovic has his own strengths but it is FACT that he lacks firepower (relative basis) which simply helps explain some matchup aspects. I am sure he’ll come up with more gems now! stay tuned.
To be clear, Djokovic has perhaps the best two-handed backhand in the game because it is the most well-rounded backhand (ignoring the slice here). He can do damage in so many ways. He spreads the court like none other , takes balls on the rise with such ease but it is his backhand counterpunching that is PEERLESS. It is so hard to force the guy ho hit a slice ; his reach is insane and the depth he can get and the pace he can absorb just make it a ROCK. Nalbandian’s backhand was more aggressive and he could change direction almost as well but when it comes to counterpunching and defending, Novak’s closed-stance backhand is out of this world.
vr,
You tackled the major issues in your rebuttal. I appreciate the restraint that you have been using, despite the unfortunate derogatory insults included throughout fedfan’s responses. If you have to attack people, then it’s because you cannot make a real argument.
Note that Fedfan insists on using the word “dull” in his responses. We can talk about Fed without trying to use derogatory words. Thid is someone who is primarily trying to provoke people and the snide references to there being many Rafa fans here, is proof of that. He merely wants to get a reaction and then proceeds with more attacks.
I think it would be a much better idea to have a real discussion about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the top players with those who are genuinely interested in doing so. It’s not worth responding to someone who is obviously not interested in having that kind of exchange of ideas.
exactly NNY! the ‘Dull’ references are so childish.
To FedFan is doesn’t matter what Novak said in a press conference, what matters is what he says LOLLL
on a serious note, I have no hesitation in saying Djokovic’s ROS, serve and backhand are superior to Rafa’s but some of the weaknesses are facts too ! Rafa’s forehand is a MONSTER and the impact it can have on a match when it is totally on is insane. Fedfan should go ask Fed LOL.
Oh and as per FedFan, Murray doesn’t have much to hurt Federer on Grass!! What sport is this guy watching? seriously!! The 2012 Wimby final was SO DAMN close and who knows what would have happened if the roof hadn’t been introduced! And yeah, the Olympics 2012 final counts for nothing! As much as you can say Fed was tired, Murray was playing insanely well in that final. His second serve return, his backhadn were absurd.
And, whoever mentioned Murray peaking in 2013 was totally right because Murray’s peak depends a lot on how he is hitting his forehand and he was hitting his forehand very aggressively in that period before he had to go out for surgery. But if we are to believe Fedfan, Murray had surgery before RG 2013!!
The 2012 Wimbledon final was anything but close after Federer won the second set. As long as he wasn’t hitting his FH well and hadn’t gotten into a groove at the net, the match was ‘close’. Murray was literally falling all over the place everytime Federer moved into the net once the second set was over.
And yes, the Olympics didn’t mean much given that Roger was pretty much pasted in the semis against a DelPo who played much better tennis than anything Murray played in the Wimbledon final.
“Complete control?” Ahh yes, that explains why Federer got the second *without* the roof and with the kind of net play that Murray only dreams of. Sure man. I’m sure your VB will buy that crap.
deleted
If someone says Novak didnt play well in 2013, then i have to say that person didnt watch any tennis in ’13. He almost beat an inform Rafa at French. He dominated Rafa for the majority of the match at USO ’13 but Rafa still found a way to win & this was when Rafa was playing the best hard court tennis of his career. He won Australian, and lost wimbly finals.
Maybe he watched tennis but, being a Fedfan with a hate-on for Rafa, was desperately looking for any excuse to discredit his amazing year.
#HypotheticallySpeaking
#11-23
RG 2013 5th set was as well as Novak has ever played on clay! Just look at the level of tennis in that set! It was insane. Rafa’s forehand DTL stood out as the shot that decided the set, otherwise it was so even.
I think the fifth set at the 2013 RG was the best pure tennis played by both Rafa and Novak! It was scintillating! Both guys raised their level in that fifth set. It’s worth remembering that Novak was up a break at one point. But I will always remember watching Rafa at one point in the match where he was stamping his foot and pumping his fist and shaking his head as if he was telling himself – I will not lose this match!
Then there was the moment when Novak had a brain cramp and run into the net. He lost that point. But Rafa simply went to a whole other level and just outplayed Novak to get the win.
I could watch that fifth set alone over and over.
SO TRUE! I totally remember that stamping of the foot and shaking of the head and of course the fist pumping 🙂
Yes, Novak lost that point and it was break point Rafa. Novak won that point to pull it back to deuce and looking back, I think I am glad he was able to save that BP because then Rafa was able to win two successive points in ‘normal fashion’ haha…
J Mac called it the best clay court match ever!
Novak looked down and out in set 4 but then he started hitting big returns when Rafa was serving for the match and he got very lively in set 5. I honestly thought at one stage that Rafa’s finally losing to Novak at RG but he had other ideas.
NNY, I replied to your post at 2.28 am
vr,
I can’t find it. I went back up the thread, but it’s so long!
ctrl+F is our friend in these situations 😉 type 2:28 in it , hit enter and magic! haha
VR, can you read? Coz I don’t think you can. I used the Sampras example to show that literally anyone can make “peak-to-peak” arguments on completely arbitrary grounds. And if you actually read my posts you might find a number of other obvious errors of comprehension from your side but I don’t think you will because as long as you can write lengthy, meaningless diatribe, that can and somehow does seem to substitute to truth with you and your ilk, addressing the actual premise of an argument appears almost meaningless to you and the rest of your VB.
As for Andy’s surgery it really doesn’t matter when he had it as long as we know for certain that he was battling severe back problems which again, refutes the premise that he was somehow “peaking” at the time. But of you want to be pedantic go ahead. Might help you sleep better at night.
Nothing of substance posted by you, again. No surprises there.
Completely ignoring points by me and luckystar to illustrate HOW Murray was peaking before he gott surgery. His level was amazing at that time and then after surgery poor guy lost it. He has restored his slam winning form this year and has a better second serve too now.
And what a way to cover your messed up version ! It doesn’t matter when he had the surgery?!
I guess it is difficult to expect logic from you. I am SHOCKED you still haven’t been able to the see why those points were brought up . Constant references to Wawrinka Djokovic matchup get completely ignored ?! What language should I write the PREMISE in???
And everyone hear is watching who writes diatribes! LOL
Oh snap VR.
I think we have the second coming of scoretracker lol.
“Illustrate?” You mean like how he missed the French Open due to his injury and how, by his own account, he was in a lot of pain at the time? Sure. If you can call it an illustration and that is your definition of “logic” sure. It’s not for anyone that actually gets tennis. You certainly don’t. And why is his current form relevant again? Is that a subject of discussion? Nope. But I guess you had to throw in a non-sequitur to make yourself look smarter than you actually are.
“Your” unable? Sure man. Look at the language police with their supreme linguistic skills at work ;). So much for “lucid pontification.”
Yeah, I post here because the Rafatard fanbrigade bandies about like a bunch of experts on literally every top guy(from the articles that I have read) which they clearly aren’t and somehow ties every single top player to NADAL even though he might have absolutely nothing to do with a given match or news at hand while insulting whichever player they think is convenient/suitable at the time.
And because it’s a good on and off pass time. 😉
Except, ‘coz’ is a colloquial term and ‘your’ for ‘you’re’ is just plain wrong. Try harder and check the pot and kettle once, won’t you. 😉
As for ‘reality’, well the reality is that Federer has won 7 Wimbledons and has by the best overall record on grass courts. That is reality. Ascribing his success at an event to the roof, after he’d won it six times already on the other hand is usually termed as stupidity. Particularly against a guy who cannot even beat him at Wimbledon after he’s turned 34. But like I said, it goes for the dense collective intellect of the VB.
Not really. ‘coz’ is used by those that pick their nose, eat with their fingers, don’t wash their hands and vote trump.
You won’t see anyone with above intelligence using that form.
It’s PASTIME! Get it right if you are going to attack others here!
Your anger is out of control. You came here to instigate and provoke because we are Rafa fans and that’s not okay with you. I have seen Fed fans like you in sites like tennis-x. Too many times! All you do is trash Rafa and his fans because apparently you have nothing else to do with your life.
Vamosrafa is one of the best analysts on this site. For him it’s not just about Rafa and being his fan. He has s genuine love and respect for this sport. He is also one of the nicest people I have encountered on any forum. He doesn’t talk down to anyone and never tries to big himself up. I enjoy the discussions we have had here.
There are great people on this forum who may happen to be Rafa fans. The last time I checked, that was not a crime.
It’s ironic reading your hostile and angry words. I have given credit to Novak and Fed for their considerable achievements in this sport. I respect both of them. I have also been attacked by other Rafa fans here and accused of being a closet Novak fan. I am a Rafa fan through and through and make no apologies for it. But I also appreciate the other top players and what they bring yo tennis.
It is really shameful to see you attacking others here specifically because they are Rafa fans. You are making generalizations about us that have nothing to do with reality.
I would think you could find something better to do with your time than trash people on a tennis site.
Pass time????
Another colloquialism no doubt from Mr. peRFect.
Hahahahaha!
Don’t quit your day “job” fedfanatic.
VR you are trying to reason with a piece of driftwood, a mental compost pile.
Not worth your teaching skills.
Your superb tennis knowledge is like a tree falling in the overgrown forest of his wasted mind.
Lol… hawkeye and his sense of humour haha..
Fedfan, so when has Murray played his best tennis then? I mentioned the current form because I am talking about the highest level f tennis played by Murray in his career so far and that to me has happened on two occasions !! What the heck are you on to??
He was not fit and skipped RG as he did not want to risk his health before wimby. His level of tennis was quite extraordinary and his forehand was so damn aggressive in that 2012-13 periods luckystar and I have mentioned.
I am sure you will still find a way to post completely worthless though.
Well, it IS his “pass” time to be fair VR.
What a goof.
Fedfan calls Nadal the most defensive baseliner he has ever seen. Think he forgot to realize that the same player defeated Federer on GRASS LOL. Most defensive baseliner has 2 slams on grass on 3 runner ups.
No point talking logic with this guy no matter how hard you try.
I guess I am off this now.
Thanks for making me realize, Hawkeye.
“2 slams and 3 runner ups.” Sure. After mightily struggling in the first week of nearly every year he’s played when the grass plays somewhat like it’s supposed to play. And boy how it’s caught up now. 😀
So what with struggling in the first week? He still reached the final right? Didnt Fed also struggled to reach the FO final in 2009 too? Or during earlier rounds at USO and AO too even during his heydays?
It caught up with Rafa? Oh, thats because of his knee issues when he could no longer bend his knees the way he could during his younger days.
the pattern continues…. he has NO answer to 90% of the points so he cherry picks a one or two and come up with a gem.
Yeah, he struggled in week 1 but none of those struggles equate to the struggle Federer had to go through to Win his RG!!
Also, It was smooth sailing for Rafa throughout the tournament in the tournament where he dethroned your idol in 2008. He just dropped a set 7-5 to Gulbis who was in tremendous form and that could have happened to anyone!
look at Djokovic’s path to the WImbledon 2011 final. Dropped a set in each of round 3, quarter final and the semi final.
In 2014 wimbledon, Djokovic dropped 4 sets en route to the final (one of those sets being dropped in a TOUGH 4-set win over Stepanek)
IN 2015, we know Djokovic almost lost to Anderson in Rnd 4 AND we know what happened in WImbledon 2016 against Querrey.
Actually, it is no big deal to lose sets on grass early on because it is quite tricky and players are adapting. Federer has one of the best serves in the game and that MASSIVELY helps in keeping those risky players at bay. Grass is a natural surface for Fed’s game and I don’t know what’s the big deal with struggling in week 1 .
‘And boy how it’s caught up now’
WHAT?! :S a new low…
The previously weak era field caught up and passed federer in 2008.
He could never go through Rafa to win another slam after Rafa turned 22.
In sadfan’s view, McEnroe wasn’t much more impressive than Rafa on grass with just one more W title and the same number of finals.
Nah, he’s just sad “coz” federer, his “pass time” is long “pass” his best before date.
“Oh that’s because of his
Knee issue”. Hahaha. For FOUR years in a row? Like I said, the density of the VB logic is truly impregnable. 😛
We are now supposed to believe that a guy who avoids the net like a plague,is among the great grass courters of his times and applaud his backboarding on grass. Hahaha. 😛 You can’t beat the VB stupidity.
As for Fed struggling at RG- yeah of course he did. He’s not a clay courter as hard as he may have tried and in any other, less homogenised era, would’ve probably avoided RG altogether or at the very least not tried so hard since the concept of a ‘career slam’ anyway didn’t exist until Agassi’s win there.
JMac “only” made five Wimbledon finals with one more title than Rafa.
” as long as you can write lengthy, meaningless diatribe,”
Reusable for every single fcukwad post you’ve made here.
You haven’t a clue beyond the brim of your no doubt greasy RF cap.
Not just VR but no one can read your BS laced posts lol.
Life is more than Roger. Go outside and get some fresh air.
Exactly VR! Fed dropped sets, went five sets even, at AO and USO and in the early rounds too in his heydays. In fact Rafa has played the fewest five setters at the slams, compared to Fed,Djoko and Murray. Rafa only added four lately from 2015 because of his really bad form.
Rafa being the clay court king, was able to make successful transition to grass and mastered the movement on grass so soon (after only playing three times at Wimbledon)to reach the final was nothing to be scorned at. Rafa rarely slipped or fell on grass even during the first week of Wimbledon. It took Djoko much longer to master the movement on grass, and Djoko slipped and fell more often during the first week.
Rafa does not have a great serve like Fed’s hence he has to fight harder to win points on grass, so what’s wrong that sometimes he has to go the distance to win on grass?
Fed had to go to so many TBs on grass to win, its not like he had it easy either. He was also pushed to the limit by Falla in R1 of Wimbledon 2010. I dont see why Rafa reaching five finals at Wimbledon and winning two of them one of which by beating Fed in the final warrant such derision from a certain Fed fan.
Not to mention Federer’s traditionally cupcake rigged draws.
Before Nole turned his game around remember, Nole was “randomly” put into Federer’s half in 13 straight non-clay slams.
(edited for insult)
I laughed so hard at the TB argument. Fed loves playing TBs. I highly doubt he sees them as a struggle. 😛 If anything, he can bank on TBs if his ground game isn’t working.
And you’re right, Nadal hasn’t played many five setters at the AO. He has simply lost there early more often than not. 😛
sadfan’s “pass time” is living in the “passed”.
Fedfan, please update yourself instead of talking rubbish here. Rafa, after his long injury break in 2012 due to knee injury, is never the same again when he couldnt bend his knees like before to play on grass. Go watch his 2008 match vs Fed and see how low he could bend his knees to deal with Fed’s slices; its no wonder Fed’s slices had no effect on Rafa even on grass!
Have you been watching Rafa? If you have you would have noticed he’s very good at the net, getting even higher % wins than Fed when at the net even though Fed charged the net more often. Its just that he doesnt do it as frequently as Fed does these days.
Fed won his Wimbledon not by charging the net, except in 2003 and 2012. He won primarily from the baseline so dont come here and talk as if Fed was that net charging hero when he won majority of his Wimbledon playing a baseline game.
Fed’s slices have little effect comparatively on the present day grass anyway and against Nadal, his slice sits into the guy’s stronger wing. As for how “Rafa cannot bend his knees”, no one asked him to backboard on grass anyway. If he’s cannot win there anymore he’s got no one but himself to blame for the lack of imagination in his play.
And lol at the winning percentage at the net. How many times on an average does Nadal even move forward? Your percentages drop the riskier your play gets. But then, VB is VB. Trust them to distort stats without actually playing or watching tennis. 😉
Fed’s slices only had effect during the Weak Era.
In slams, Federer could only beat a 21-or-under Rafa on Fed’s best surface.
After just Rafa’s 22nd birthday, Federer went 0-6 vs Rafa in slams on ALL surfaces, two HC and one grass. After Rafa turned just 22 , Federer could never win another slam again if Rafa was in his way.
That’s why Federer and sadfan like to cry. God, it’s KILLING him!!!!
Crying on tennis forums is sadfan’s “pass time”.
Fedfan likes to use the excuse that Andy (not a very good grass player apparently) only beat St. Roger on grass at the Olympics because Del Potro tired him out.
Yet a young 22 year old Rafa after playing a five-set SF beat a peak 27 year old St. Roger in the AO final.
Fedfan, again what’s so great about net charging when you keep losing the point there? If Fed could win from the baseline, you think he wants to charge the net that often? Its only you who think the world of Fed doing net charging on the current surfaces; its not that he’s courageous or imaginative, its just that he cant win anymore from the baseline.
As for Rafa not changing the way he played on grass, too bad for him, he was plagued with knee, back and then confidence issue. He arrived at Wimbledon each time ill prepared. He couldnt even play there this year! Anyway, he has a grass court at his academy now, look forward to him conquering grass again, this time he’ll heed our Fedfan’s advice, make changes to the way he plays on grass!
What’s the point? It shortens the point and keeps the opponent guessing maybe? Adds a little variety to the game? Breaks away from known patterns of play? You know, that way, one can stop playing the injury card every single time they lose to a guy outside the top 100. 😉
Fed likes to use his back excuse for his many losses in 2013 and didn’t stop whining about it throughout 2014 long after it was over.
Then becomes the only player to chicken out of the WTF final against Nole, not because he couldn’t play mind you, but because, in his own words, wouldn’t have a chance to win. Screw the ticket paying public that pays his wages. Miracle recovery to be back on court four days later in Davis Cup.
Luckystar AT 2:19 PM,
Rafa doesn’t have grass courts at his academy. There were no grass courts in Mallorca when they planned to build them at the RN Academy. Probably they changed their plans after it was decided to build grass courts in Santa Ponsa, 80 km/50 miles away from Manacor, Rafa’s hometown.
The Mallorca Open, a WTA tournament, was held on the brand new grass courts in Santa Ponsa in June. Rafa was supposed to practice there this year, but due to his wrist injury he only visited the venue.
Ha, after coming forward so often, where is the guessing? Even his SABF had met with more failure than success! Ahem, still lost at Wimbledon right, despite all the ‘ keeps his opponents guessing’!
Well, Fed wasn’t spared from using the injury card right? After losing to Berdych one year at Wimbledon; and to Stakhovsky (what’s his ranking?) and also to Raonic.
Its OK as long as they have the grass court in his hometown where he can practise there.
Deleted
“Info right?” Ahh yes, the VB now expect others to accept RAFA is a better net player than Roger because out of the rare times he actually bothers to come forward for putting away sitters or the occasional drop volley, he has a better “percentage” than Federer whose net approaches on an average are over twice many as Nadal’s. Lol.
Fedfan somehow thinks that five W finals and two titles does not a great grass player make (including beating his hero in his prime in 2008).
(edited for insult)
LOL!! Fed loves playing TB, of course he does, when he cant even gain any advantage on his opponent even on grass for 12 games in a set. He has no choice does he, that he has to resort to TBs to win, huh? You think he doesnt love it better when he doesnt have to play 13 games to win each set? Mind you, even going to TBs he still managed to lose some of his matches!
Er.. how often did Rafa lost early at the AO? Only once in recent years and that’s in 2016. He made it to at least the QF stage, and better; Fed only managed SF since 2010 when he won there for the last time. How’s Fed any better when he had to barely scrap past five setters during the tournament and then lost eventually?
(edited for insult)
Nobody says Rafa has turned into a net charging player, but when he’s there he’s that good that he wins most points there. What’s the point of charging the net so often and then gets passed by some stunning passing shots from his opponents?
Fed has got no choice now as he’s old and cant win from the baseline anymore so he has to charge the net and hopes to win points there, so he’s doing it ‘twice’ as much as Rafa but not winning as high a % as Rafa.
During Fed’s heydays, he hardly needed to charge the net and that’s why he needs Edberg to help him these past two years to revive his net appoaches. Why need Edberg if Fed is that great at the net game??
To answer your opening queries, I’d definitely say both.
Rafa has great volleys. He should use them even more than he does. Not surprised he’s so successful up there.
Wrong. Even during his heyday, Fed was at the net far more often than Nadal was. In most cases, the number was x2. There are detailed stats on this and I’m sure the internet will give you the number. Federer’s success rate for his number of approaches is actually very very good. It’s not something he ‘switched’ on just because he got old although the frequency is even higher now. He won his first Wimbledon S&Ving on a majority of the first serves.
As for Nadal- this unwillingness to get passed is exactly why he will never be as good as volleyer as Federer and exactly why no one who’s really watched tennis will call him a great grass courter with a straight face. Edberg only came in during 2014. Roger had already amped his net play by then. And why not? Edberg was the best volleyer of his times and his inputs have only helped Roger maximise a skill he already possesses in spades.
But I guess the VB thinks that any skill Dull doesn’t posses is worthless.
Fed called himself an aggressive baseliner. Even if he approached the net twice as much as Rafa, that didn’t change the fact he played primarily from the baseline! If net charging was the way to go back then, why did Fed choose to play from the baseline?
Fed has lost his net approaching skills and that’s why he first engaged Anacone and then Edberg to help him revive his net game. If Fed is so great at the net, he needs no Anacone or Edberg to help him. And why he wants to revive his net game? Not that they quicken the surfaces again, but precisely because Fed cant win from the baseline anymore.
Rafa may not have good S&V skills as he didnt grow up playing in the S&V era; however, he’s good in his net approaches and the timing of his net approaches. He has good volleying skills, soft hands and deft touches, if not he wont even have a higher success rate than Fed when at the net.
Fed is an all courter ( no that isn’t the same as an all surface player). That he prefers the baseline the way Sampras or Laver preferred S&V doesn’t change the basic composition of his game. And he hired coaches the same way all players do. To have a fresh pair of eyes look at their game. Annacone had worked with Pete before he worked with Roger.
As for Nadal- His technique is okay to good depending on his form. And he can rarely hit a good second volley to cover the net if the ball comes back. I’ve seen him volleying well but it happens so rarely that it’s pointless to include it as a part of his play patterns.
Federer is prettier but Rafa kicks his ass.
14 slams in the golden era >> Weak era dominated 17 slams.
23 >> 11
Deal with it as a new “pass time”.
Edberg may have been a great volleyer but his accomplishments on grass are substantially less than Rafa with two less final appearances.
Doesn’t matter. Those that actually know tennis know that both Nadal and Djokovic have massively overachieved on grass and Edberg will always better than both.
Sadfan’s belief construct defines those that actually know tennis as fedbot fanboys who once claimed to be too busy to post on tennis blogs but now have all the time in the world.
No federer overachieved on grass because of the dreaded Weak Era but could no longer beat Nadal in a slam on any surface after he turned just 22.
But facts and data must not be your “pass time”.
Maybe employment would be a good “pass time” for you.
Rafa, please get back to your ‘A’ game and injury free to prove that you are simply the best.
Lol not gonna happen.
Never say never.
Fedfan, wrong again. I bet you hardly watched Rafa’s matches. He covered the net so well that he could win it even if he needs a few volley to win the point.
Fed called himself an aggressive baseliner, you want to call him an all courter thats up to you.
Lol, no he doesn’t. But I guess in a parallel universe where only a handful number of net approaches makes one a superior volleyer, any rubbish goes.
Fed’s an all courter. It’s so obvious it’s almost a truism in tennis now. But like i said, no one can cut through the density of the VB school of thought or lack thereof.
Sadfan’s “pass time” is making false statements as if they are truisms with no data to support them.
11 << 23
0 – 6 on all surfaces in slams since Rafa turned 22.
God, it's KILLING him.
Go have a good cry like St. Roger did sadfan.
Fedfan, so you dont even believe your own idol?
I suggest you watch Rafa’s matches more to see for yourself, stop calling others dense. If not I shall alert the moderator to edit/moderate your post.
Moderator where are you? Be fair with your moderation, why tolerate one poster calling others dense repeatedly? Do something!
Crying is St. Roger’s and sadfan’s “pass time” as evidenced by the tear-stained posters of St. Roger over sadfan’s nest.
God, it’s KILLING him!!!
Its so strange that winning on slower grass is not being held in as high esteem as winning on fast grass. I mean the players cant choose which era they play in, it just happens that the grass courts since 2002/2003 were slower than before that, and players use different skill sets to win on different grass surfaces, quick or slow.
To me the mastery of movement on the surfaces, esp clay and grass, is the key to doing well on the said surfaces. If your movement is lousy on the surface, you cant go far in a tournament on it, dont even talk of winning it.
Had Rafa or Djoko being born a few years earlier and so had a chance to play during the S&V era, I dont think they couldnt pick up S&V as a skill to play on those quicker surfaces. The fact that they can improve their volleying, net approaches despite playing on slower surfaces tell us that they are keen to learn and improve and have the talent to acquire the skill.
Fed won his Wimbledon not on quick grass either, so I dont see why when Rafa and then Djoko won Wimbledon, many Fed fans lamented that the grass at Wimbledon was being slowed down, as if only Fed is/was allowed to win there, others are/were not worthy enough to win there.
If Edberg or Becker were to play at the slow grass of Wimbledon now, they might not win either, with their skillsets; but that didnt mean they were not worthy of their titles won on fast grass.
Rafa and Djokovic are as good or superior to St. Roger on slower grass.
Anyone that knows about tennis understands that Sampras S&V in his prime made him near unbeatable on grass and a superior grass court player compared to St. Roger.
All courter? More like an all season tire among the true greats of the game.
St. Roger relied on the likes of Blake, Roddick, Hewitt and an aging Agassi in the Top 10.
Thomas Johannson winning a slam was indicative of the beginning of the dreaded Weak Era. Anyone not blinded by the light from St. Roger’s royal behind understands this.
Yeah, on fast grass Sampras is better than Fed, no doubt about it. Fed beat Sampras when Sampras was done winning at Wimbledon. A 19 yo Alex Zverev beat Fed on grass at Halle, was Zverev a better player than Fed on grass?
I’m also not sure that on fast grass, Fed could beat Laver or Borg. Fed fans have to be happy that the grass at Wimbledon was slowed down from the quick 1990s fast grass, so much so that Fed could win on it playing primarily from the baseline and only moved forward when appropriate, certainly not charging the net the S&V players used to do in the bygone era. He won in 2003 S&V’ing but not by beating any great fast grass court player.
Rafa beating Fed in 2008 during Fed’s mid twenties when both were playing the baseline game put an end to Fed’s dominance there at Wimbledon; as Fed aopoached his thirties he lost to 2nd tier top tenners like Berdych and Tsonga and then in his thirties, he lost to peak Djoko, managed to win one in 2012 vs Djoko/Murray though, even when Fed revived his net charging game.
With the trend now for big serving and hard hitting, I think a new breed of taller players will take over on grass if they can master the movement on it. Perhaps a Stich or Krajeck type of players? Alex Zverev or Nick Kygrios or even Raonic? Or Cilic from the older batch but still young enough to win?
And 2008 was no anomaly as even a Rafa that just turned 20 made the final in 2006 taking St. Roger to four sets and taking him to five sets in 2007 final after just turning 21 – all in the peak of St. Roger’s career.
But cherry-picking is fedfan’s “pass time”, not reality and facts.
Except, Fedeer has proven credentials as a net player while Nadal-Djokovic don’t. Fed winning Wimbledon after the initial slowdown was more a coincidence than reflective of anything. He was losing across the board despite being widely regarded as the second coming of Sampras.
As for whether Roger would beat Pete in the 90s-there is literally no way of knowing. It is known that he’s an all-courter while Nadal/Djokovic are not. We know his record on the fast courts that remain today is excellent. And we know that his longevity is down to the sheer variety and options his game offers. We also know that unlike the others he isn’t afraid to attack the net and doesn’t shy away from risk-taking.In short, he has all the makings of an attacking player while Nadal and Djokovic don’t. But over and above that, it’s a hypothetical. What the VB thinks or doesn’t think in this regard is irrelevant when lacking a basis.
Excuse me, Fed is not a risk taker, Djoko is. Rafa isnt either. I mean during Fed’s heydays, how often he took risk? He wont hit the lines but hit within the lines with margin for safety. Djoko was the one who played paint the line tennis!
Fed as he’s older now has to take more risk and so he moves forward more often, knowing that he couldnt win staying at the baseline.
Rafa takes risk, calculated risk and when his back is against the wall. He’s not called the warrior or the fighter for nothing, playing the big points well, in fact the best in doing so among the top few guys,by taking more risk.
Anyone who knows about tennis knows that you only take an much risk that is necessary to win.
St. Roger never had to take any risk during the Weak Era.
St. Roger was only a risk taker when challenged by Rafa and Nole out of sheer desperation.
Hahahahaah WHAT?! I think VB is having a meltdown now. Fed is not a risk-taker?! Lol. Might as well call him a counter-puncher now. Move over Simon. Oh how the VB scramble. :p
Please read more carefully.
Reading comprehension is not sadfan’s “pass time”.
Anyone who knows about tennis knows that you only take an much risk that is necessary to win.
St. Roger never had to take any risk during the Weak Era.
St. Roger was only a risk taker when challenged by Rafa and Nole out of sheer desperation.
Yes, “alert the moderator.” I couldn’t care less about it. I’m not here to please the VB and pander to their falsehoods.
Fed’s said a number of times that he likes to play good all court/ attacking tennis so even assuming what you say is true, one obscure statement at some obscure point is hardly going to obfuscate the actual composition of his game.
Aggressive baseliners are guys like Stan or Safin or even Agassi. Federer plays nothing like them.
Also, grass has historically been a quick surface and the domain of fast court players. The game was never meant to be played in a way where only one style would succeed over and over across the board. Else why have a grass court at all?
Djokovic and Nadal are also not great movers on grass. Their footwork is barely comparable to Federer and that is why they slip as often as they do. It’s also why a guy like Nadal is so susceptible to an early loss.
It’s obvious why you are here.
No, St. Roger never said he liked to play good all court tennis. You just made it up.
No, Nadal was immaculate on grass for five straight years entered. Five finals, same as JMac and two more than Edberg,
Fast grass is not part of the conversation because St. Roger never won on it. Period.
Sampras has seven titles on fast grass and St, Roger has seven titles on your hated slow grass.
Such internal contradictions must be killing you fedfan.
But reality and tennis beyond St. Roger is not part of your “pass time”, is it.
You made me laugh Fedfan. Have you been watching Rafa on grass during his heydays? Rafa was so quick on grass that he moved like a snake on grass and you’re here telling us his movement cant compare to Fed’s? Mind you, Rafa matched Fed shot for shot during 2007/2008 Wimbledon, if not how could he beat Fed in 2008 when Fed was still in his prime?? Your bias really knows no bound! You truly idolize your Fed till no end!
Whatever you want to call Fed that’s your business, and I’m just quoting Fed’s own description of himself as a tennis player.
How could he beat Fed in 2008? Fed had his worst year since 2003 in 2008. Just like you line up a knee excuse everytime Dull loses, I can pretty much go out on a limb and say he lost a great deal of conditioning after he got sick. The final of 2008 was probably the worst he’s ever played on grass with nothing other than the serve working consistently for him. Yet even then, he played around 58 points at the net again, nearly twice as many as Nadal. Federer calls himself an attacking player. That’s his description of himself. Period.
Worst conditioning? Yeah right, not when he swept past all his opponents in straight sets to reach the final. Also in 2007, when his conditioning was supposed to be better, he almost got beaten by Rafa if not for a Rafa knee injury late in the fourth set. He had to win two TBs(yeah TBs alright, Fed loved TB; no?) for a 2-2 in sets vs Rafa.
Stop exagerating, Fed hit his FH and BH well in that 2008 final, moved well too and the rain delay gave him time to rest and regroup. When Fed lost, Fed fans came out with all sorts of excuses, and yet they accused the Rafa fans of such.
There’s no need to argue about whether Fed is an attacking player or not. Attacking can be from the baseline too. Berdych for example is an attacking player from the baseline. You seem to perceive players playing from the baseline as defensive players, no wonder you couldt accept Fed calling himself an aggressive baseliner!
Lol, what rubbish? Are you now going to come and tell me Federer never approaches the net? Really, is the collective IQ of the VB so low? Federer calls himself an attacking player. Those who play him say he’s the most attacking player on tour currently. There’s no question of my accepting or rejecting it.
As for Federer’s performance in 2008. Hardly. His BH was probably the worst it had been in years and Nadal was almost singularly attacking it in the final-something he couldn’t do in 2007. His FH on the run was again all over the place and he could barely defend his right corner on the baseline. But of course, in the VB parallel universe, only Dullboy is allowed to get sick or injured.
Nah, its your IQ being low, dont even understand what was being discussed!
His BH was his worst in years? Yeah right, not when he hit that BHDTL to save MP. See, when Fed lost, all these sick or injury excuses from his fans, no different from any other fan groups. His 2007 wasnt any better despite your claim that he hit his BH better, the difference was that Rafa was hard done by the scheduling and the rain delay. Rain delays always helped Fed at Wimbledon but in 2008, rain delay or not, no one or nothing could help Fed.
Fedfan, playing primarily from the baseline doesnt equate to not approaching the net! It means he played more from the baseline than at the net. Also, one can play attacking tennis from the baseline and at the net. Hope that helps your den__ brain.
Check your meds and get a job sadfan.
Sadfan’s “pass time” is living in a delusional “passed”.
“Fed had his worst year since 2003 in 2008.”
Exactly, after Rafa wasn’t 21 or under anymore.
End of the dreaded Weak Era.
Anyone that knows tennis considers that final to be the best match of all time and sadfan deludes himself that one of the two didn’t play very well.
Not as well as a very young Rafa that is.
fedfan’s “pass time” is delusion.
Sadfan must think that St. Roger was STILL recovering in 2009 when a well rested St. Roger lost to Rafa at the AO final after Rafa had played a 5-set SF on half the rest that St. Roger had.
Delusion is sadfan’s “pass time”.
Yes, “alert the moderator.” I couldn’t care less about it. I’m not here to please the VB and pander to their falsehoods.
Feddfan much prefers to pander to his own falsehoods. That’s one of his “pass times”.
Hilarious!
Rafa susceptible to early loss? Not during his heydays. Rafa hardly slipped or fell during his heydays. Rafa didnt have a great serve hence he had to work harder to win on grass that’s all and that didnt mean he’s suspectible to early loss. The facts and stats said so during his heydays.
Lol, yes he did. He played , what is it, two five setters to get to the final in 2007? I think barring 2008, I’ve seen him struggle in the first week every single year. And then of course, who can forget the litany of shady MTOs and making the server wait and the general stalling. Glad he’s starting to get called out more often now.
2007??
He’d just turned 21 FFS. And took the Weak Era GOAT to five sets!
Nah, every knowledgeable tennis fan understands Sampras was the Grass GOAT, Rafa the Clay GOAT, and Fed the Weak Era GOAT.
Cherry picking is sadfan’s “pass time”.
Please, do you know Rafa had to play for 7 consecutive days due to rain delay whilst Fed had a few days rest?
Without rest days in between, Rafa still could beat whoever across the net to reach the final and gave Fed a real scare, and Fed knew what would come the following year and said that he better won his title before Rafa won them all.
Mind you, 2007 was only Rafa’s fourth year playing at Wimbledon and he managed to reach the final. Where was Fed in his fourth year at Wimbledon? Or well that’s in 2002 where he was knocked out in R1, so much for susceptiblity in early round loss!
Come on, be fair with your comments, dont just pick and isolate a year to make your point without viewing it in full context. Rafa did win his first Wimbledon in his fifth attempt, same as Fed and he had to beat the five time champion to do so!
Well, Rafa didnt need going the distance in 2008 and 2011. Didnt Fed go the distance in R1 in 2010 even when grass was his forte?
Why his MTOs were shady? You seemed to conveniently forget that his opponent did take MTO too, wont you call them shady? As for stalling, the tv rule wasnt being enforced yet so its up to the players to complain and the umpires to act on them. Yeah its good that the rule is in place now and Rafa has also quicken his pace.
Was he playing five setters every day or something? And is it Federer’s problem he couldn’t get through his matches easier? The guy was barely playing a set or so a day. His practice sessions are more intense than that.
Fed by the earlier standards was a late bloomer but in those days, it was common for players to see success right from their teens. So Nadal doing well at 20 or 21 was hardly out of the ordinary. Borg, Becker, even Hewitt had already set precedents for early excellence.
And honestly, how does the guy beat a supposedly “peaking” Fed in 2008 and then loses to Djokovic in 2011 in four sets-a guy with an inferior record on grass? Please, who is the VB trying to take for a ride?
I’ve said it before and say it again-both Nadal and Djokovic are massive overachievers on grass.
St. Roger was a late bloomer at the start of the weak era and started crying in 2008 at the end of the weak era.
Anybody not deluded by the light shining out of st. Rogers behind understands this.
Delusion and fantasy with lack of data is sadfan’s “pass time”.
Hello, 2011 and 2008, thats a good three years difference. You want to compare Rafa on grass in 2008 vs 2011?
Was Djoko that inferior on grass? He reached the SF at Wimbledon in 2007, a 20 yo. He also reached the SF in 2010. Reaching the final and winning it in 2011 was a logical progression esp with the year that he had in 2011.
So you expect Rafa to beat a well rested Fed in the final in five sets when Rafa had to play everyday like in a Masters event? Its not like Rafa could skip practice each day before his matches. Perhaps he could if Fed was subjected to the same scheduling issues.
“You want to compare Rafa on grass in 2008 and 2011?” Uhm…YEAH? If Roger can be in the peak of his prime in 2008 and perfectly healthy, I’m sure a comparison of Nadal’s 08 with ’11 is more than valid.
Sadfan criticizes other posts and then uses the same logic.
Hypocrisy is sadfan’s “pass time”.
St. Roger was given preferred draws and preferred scheduling for years.
Anybody who knows anything about tennis beyond St. Roger clearly understands that.
But he wouldn’t understand ‘coz’ delusion is the “pass time” of the federazzi fanboy sadfan.
Nah, Rafa was healthy in 2011, just not as confident or as aggressive as his 2008; and he met his match or more than his match in the 2011 Djoko, just like Fed in 2008 met more than his match in Rafa.
Yup Rafa was the second best player on tour on all surfaces in 2011 reaching more finals that all but Djokovic.
Faderer faded after the Weak Era breaking down crying at AO award ceremony when the presenter had to tell roger to settle down for everyone to here.
Faderer could only add slams with Rafa out of the picture after that. Rafa stopped St. Faderer from adding to his totals six times on ALL slam surfaces.
Faderer in his prime age couldn’t beat him in a slam once Rafa was just 22.
But facts are not sadfan’s “pass time”. Nor is writing for that matter.
Hypocrisy however….
Epic moment at 1:40 below. Settle down St. Roger, settle down now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCjw0Unm8OY