It will be the 38th installment of arguably the greatest rivalry in tennis history when Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer meet again in the title match of the Shanghai Rolex Masters on Sunday afternoon.
Nadal is leading the head-to-head series 23-14, but Federer has narrowed the gap to the tune of four consecutive victories–including three in 2017. Prior to this stretch, the 36-year-old had never won more than two matches in a row against Nadal. On the heels of a 2015 Basel triumph, however, Federer got the job done earlier this year at the Australian Open (6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 3-6, 6-3 in the final), in Indian Wells (6-2, 6-3 in the fourth round), and in Miami (6-3, 6-4 in the final).
The hard-court surface once again favors Federer, but there is some good news for Nadal. Currently No. 1 in both the rankings and the 2017 race, the Spaniard has captured two Grand Slam titles (the French Open and U.S. Open) since his early-season struggles against Federer. Nadal is also without question the hottest player on tour right now, with a current 16-match winning streak that also includes a winner’s trophy from Beijing. This week’s top seed has maintained momentum with defeats of Jared Donaldson, Fabio Fognini, Grigor Dimitrov, and Marin Cilic, surrendering only one set to Dimitrov in the process.
“(I’m) very happy,” Nadal said after beating Cilic 7-5, 7-6(3) on Saturday. “Of course I played I think a very high level of tennis. (It) was a great match again. In my opinion, he played well, too; was a great, good quality of tennis this afternoon.”
“I was hitting unbelievable shots off the ground, and against other guys they would be winners,” Cilic commented. “Or just with serving, serving well, that would be either an ace or winner, and he makes you play another shot.”
Federer fired winners past his friendly foe with surprising consistency in Australia, Indian Wells, and Miami, but the tide may have turned. Whereas Nadal is positively on fire at the moment, Federer has not been at his absolute best. The 19-time Grand Slam champion coasted through a favorable Wimbledon draw but was plagued by a back problem during the hard-court summer in Montreal (lost to Alexander Zverev) and New York (lost to Juan Martin Del Potro). Federer is much healthier in Shanghai, where he has taken out Diego Schwartzman, Alexandr Dolgopolov, Richard Gasquet, and Del Potro–the latter via a 3-6, 6-3, 6-3 decision.
“It’s nice at this late stage of the career that we still have these matches going on,” the world No. 2 said of the rivalry with Nadal. “There is only going to be a few chances for either player, and sometimes it’s just who blinks at the wrong time.”
Based on current form, Federer is more likely to blink. The Swiss has always been forced to bring out his absolute best in order to prevail in this matchup–a matchup that he once trailed 23-10. Federer was able to do that earlier in 2017, but the tables have now turned. A relatively fast hard court will level the playing field, but it won’t be enough for the No. 2 seed to stop Nadal’s incredible winning streak.
Pick: Nadal in 3
[polldaddy poll=9851866]
WWW?
R. Federer will take home this baby.
#4-0
Stanley son , You have no idea what are you talking about , just bulling with nonsense
What’s the nonsense, that R. Federer will win.
You call that bullying, my goodness, are you a MORON?
R. Federer has defeated Nadal thrice this year and 4 times in a roll, R. Nadal can win Shanghai but to make a baseless comment like that because you disagree with my prediction is sick, you need help.
I truly feel sorry 4 U, please stop being obsessive.
I want Rafa to take this one…but Roger is more rested , Rafa had 2 tough matches
You don’t think Fed had a tough match with Delpo?
Sara you need to read this comment i posted here- https://tenngrand.com/2017/10/13/shanghai-sf-previews-predictions-federer-vs-del-potro-nadal-vs-cilic/comment-page-1/#comment-284183
i did not include their semifinal matches in Shanghai but you will get my point.
“A relatively fast hard court will level the playing field, but it won’t be enough for the No. 2 seed to stop Nadal’s incredible winning streak.” we hope so 🙂
Nadal in 2 6-4, 7-5
I actually think that Fed could be more tired than Rafa. I would imagine that at 36 it gets harder to recover from a three set match the day before that probably took a lot out of him, physically and mentally. I would assume that he was really hyped up to get revenge from the US Open loss. Although a Federer win would not be a shock given his historical edge over Rafa on post-US Open hardcourts, I am sticking with Rafa in 3. Rafa is on fire. Fed is not. Let’s enjoy it while we still have it!
I don’t think recovery would be any issue for Fed given the fitness he has shown this year. He is well rested and has had an easy week otherwise.
Physical fitness won’t be a factor here. The rallies will not be too long and both will be strong on serve.
Rusedki Steve tignor and delpo have all said roger has clear advantage and predicted him to win.
what did delpo say?
no. Delpo said that a hard court at least gives Federer a remote chance.
That’s not what I read. Here is the link. He clearly says Federer is the fav.
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/866529/Rafael-Nadal-vs-Roger-Federer-The-court-suits-Federer-more-Juan-Martin-Del-Potro/amp
Sanju, I don’t see where he says Fed is the clear favourite. He is just saying that both players can win and even though Rafa is playing so well, the conditions suit Roger a lot more. He also think not many people can beat Roger on this court but Rafa can perhaps do it given how well he is playing.
I don’t buy into this business about Rafa on fast or slow hardcourt etc. Even Federer disagrees that Rafa is not that good on hard courts as he says here in an interview in Shanghai:
Roger:
“Rafa has always played well on hard courts and he did very well at the Australian Open, he explained.
“The problem is that he has won ten times at Roland Garros and so it appears that his results on hard court aren’t so great, which is not the case.”
As far as I’m concerned, the player who is playing better today will win.
Vamos Rafa!
I honestly don’t care what Delpo or anyone else thinks. It’s not like they are saying anything we don’t know already! Big news flash! These courts favor Fed!
Rafa is riding a winning streak right now. Yes, during the hard court season, not the clay season! Rafa is playing so much better than he was earlier this year. His game has improved immeasurably in all respects, but there are a few key aspects.
First, Rafa’s serve, especially his degind serve. It’s not a coincidence that he had not been broken in Shanghai until the semifinal match with Cilic. His second serve has become a real advantage.
Second, Rafa’s ROS is probably the best it’s been all year. He is being more aggressive overall, taking the ball earlier.
Third, Rafa’s cc and DTL backhands have changed the dynamic in his matches because he is hitting these shots flatter and with more precision and accuracy.
Last, the confidence factor. Rafa managed to battle Fed to a fifth set in this year’s AO, even being up a break. This after Rafa had not been able to go deep in slams during his two year slump. He surprised everyone by playing well enough to come back from two sets to one down against Zverev. That match Rafa has called a game changer for him. He beat Dimi in an all out five set battle. Rafa just could not quite get over the finish line.
This is a very different Rafa. He has won his 10th RG. He stormed through the clay court season, winning MC, Barcelona and Madrid. Rafa won the USO. He won Beijing. Now he is in the Shangahi final.
Rafa wants this. He wants to be year end #1. He has won when the odds were against him because of his incredible will and mental strength. He will put it all on the line in the final.
Foreignworker (if not from USA!lol),
Last line above…He will put it all on the line in the final.
You bet Nadal will. You can bet a billion dollars on that! Nadal will not lose or match fix like Dolgopolov does! He will fight until death (if needed) like a spanish bull!
Vamos “Rrrrr…..Ruff-n-Tuf” Rafa!
Roger,
Your butchering of my user name was not amusing. It’s really not complicated. I was born in New York, therefore that makes me a Nativenewyorker.
Hope that helps!
This article is nice.
Lol. Really?
Honestly, this match won’t be easy for R. Federer, rafa is HOT right now and it would be an embarrassment if he loses 4 the 4th time this year or 5 times in a roll.
If R. Federer wasn’t my guy, i would bet against him not because he is not THE BEST but because it would be difficult 4 him.
It would be easy for nadal to learn from his loses/mistakes than for R. Federer because he has defeated rafa 4 times in a roll.
Whatever strategy Federer used to defeat Nadal, fed needs to change it a little bit cos rafa will correct them.
I wish i am R. Federer’s coach or trainer because if i am, this match will be over in 2 tight sets not 3.
Those of U who watched the semi’s live were spoilt cos the results & the long highlights that i just watched was very good, M. Cilic was knocking but didn’t open the door Bad Boy.
Roger is always ROGERLICIOUS, a set down and he came back up boy i love that, always hopeful no matter the situation.
He was Incredible yesterday, was Amazing today and he will be ROGERLICIOUS tomorrow, that’s Roger no one else.
#R. FEDERERISTHEBEST
#Nooneelse
I wish i can see you guy’s or hear your voices, i am sick and tired of typing this sucks!
The match tomorrow will be interesting and tough, whoever wins even if it’s Nadal if they deserve it by playing well, Congrats to them.
Both player’s are Amazing and i thank them & other 4 making tennis great again.
I love them, others & i love u guy’s a lot, i have learnt a lot from you guy’s, no matter how small, i want to say thank you.
#YOuguy’sareAWESOME!
The one thing you need to learn is to check your medication.
Hope this helps stanley-bot.
No it doesn’t.
HAWKTARD how are you?
And how is your family?
I hope they are fine.
I miss my HAWKTARD a lot.
I wish Ricky had picked Fed.
Fed in three
Federer doesn’t blink though.
#RickyDoesntGetIt
#HerbertWillWin
Presuming both guys defeated said other guy should win ????????mmmmm
I don’t think I’ve ever seen Nadal play at this level on a hard court. His serve particularly is the best I’ve ever seen it, and his movement has been incredible. Roger is a better returner than the players Rafa has faced so far, but his own serve isn’t quite what it’s been, and his level is not where it was mid-year. The court should favour Federer, but on current form I think Rafa takes this one. I hope I’m wrong, but I think it’s Nadal in 2 close sets.
Joe Smith, have you been busy?
I Haven’t seen u for sometime now, even though there was a period when i stopped posting because i was taking care of some important stuffs.
You on the other hand took a long time, what’s up joe?
Just been busy, Stanley. I have asked you a few questions on the non-tennis page.
Agree that Nadal displayed his smartest and the most complete form ever on hard. His form has been amazing, but tomorrow that might change.
Not one single person has mentioned what I consider to be very relevant here; the weather forecast for Shanghai tomorrow is atrocious and hence the roof will be closed. With an open roof I would have been putting my maximum bet on Nadal. With a closed roof though, this match-up is now 50/50 for me and hence I won’t be betting on the outcome. I shall instead sit back, watch and enjoy two magicians at work!
If R. Federer wins, it would have nothing to do with the roof because he is simply the best.
The roof thing is an excuse, let me make one-1) if it rains or shines it might affect Roger’s game causing him to lose.
2) if R. Nadal wears a blue dress it might affect Roger.
That is a good point, Chameleon. I’m not sure it will be enough, but if Roger can get his serve back to where it was during the grass season, maybe he can pull through. It was looking much better in the 2nd and 3rd sets against delpo.
He’ll have to hold serve as always. Nothing new.
Not new that he has to hold serve, but possibly new that it’s not quite on his racquet like it has been on this surface in the past. Roger’s serve has lost a little zip; not sure if it’s lingering back problems or just advancing age. Rafa’s ROS meanwhile has been terrific.
On the other side, Nadal is hitting a hell of a serve. Great 1st pct. and the slider out wide and follow up has been particularly devastating as a 1-2 punch. I expect Roger to do a better job on ROS and to put a bit more pressure on Rafa. But he will have to hit winners like he did earlier in the year to win. On current form, I give Rafa the edge from the baseline.
Extracts from Roger’s Presser:
he way we both play, we play so very different from one another. Also, the attitude, the way we go through our lives, you know, it’s all very different in some ways. Yeah, we have a similar mindset in the big moments.
I came to realize that when we played doubles. There is no sense of urgency or panic, I don’t want to say ever, but, you know, you could tell we have been there many, many times before. He’s a great champ, and I enjoy playing against him, even though the head-to-head is maybe not in my favor.
I think he’s definitely one of the guys that make me a better player. I don’t want to thank him for that, but he made me maybe rework my game and go back to the practice courts and think about what I could change maybe to become a better player.
an you talk a little about playing on this court and how it helps your game. ‘Margins are small. On fast courts it’s always, like I explained before about the break points, it’s got to sort of match up, you know, with — is Juan Martin going to serve so well on the big point that you can maybe almost do nothing about, or is he going to use the combo of the serve and forehands so perfectly that you just almost cannot come through, you know, even if you create so many chances.
And maybe tomorrow is the same thing. There is only going to be a few chances for either player, and sometimes it’s just who blinks, you know, at the wrong time. So it makes it always a close match on faster courts. But for me it’s good.
You know, the slice stays lower. I naturally play on the baseline. Maybe Rafa doesn’t have that many opportunities to go way, way back to return, even though he can also do it on hard courts and he’s the best ever to return from way back there.
So he almost has to play up on the baseline, but he’s been doing that almost perfectly here this week, you know. He’s maybe even surprised some of his opponents to play this good on the baseline and outplayed those guys.
So, I mean, look, he’s a great player on hard courts. On fast, as well. He wouldn’t have won Wimbledon otherwise. It’s going to be a tough one for me. I mean, I hope, of course, the service might help me a little bit.
That would be nice, anyways.’ The last time you played Rafa in Shanghai is 2007. Compared to 10 years ago, how has your relationship with Rafa changed and evolved? ‘He looks different (smiling). He’s not wearing the croppy pants anymore and sleeveless shirts and stuff.
he relationship? We were cool way back when, you know. I think we always got along very well. Always had a lot of respect for one another. He used to be more quiet and calmer and more shy way back when just because I had been on tour for almost 10 years at the time, and he was going through the motions with decision-making and all that stuff, especially at the ATP level that whatever Roger thinks, I’m his opinion, too.
Then as time went by, you know, he had his own opinion, which I thought was great. His character grew and became more confident. In the process, our relationship became bigger, I guess, you know, because we had to — we had some arguments, we had some disagreements, but for the most part, it was always good, you know, and very nice.
I think especially the last few years have been a pleasure for us. You know, especially being injured, for me, as well, seeing what he had to go through. I could never really relate to injured players, to be quite honest, because I never really was that hurt like he was.
I think the last year was a good reality check for me to maybe understand what he was going through so often. And then of course, you know, I was always happy for him, especially down the stretch of his career, that he kept on winning and proved people wrong, like I was trying to do the same.
And then we went to open the academy almost today on the day last year, which I know is very personal to him and very important. Especially with Laver Cup now, as well, the last year. It’s been great for both of us. I’m happy to call him a friend today.’
Some takeaways:
1. I have never seen more mutual respect in any sporting rivalry. The respect was kind of one-way in the beginning but over time Roger developed a lot of respect for Rafa. I think as Roger mentions in this interview above, his respect for Rafa really increased when he got injured himself for a long period of time. What Rafa has done in his entire career is nothing short of miraculous and Roger knows that!
2. Regarding this match up, Roger is fully aware it is going to benefit him. He talks about his slice staying very low here and that obviously makes it tougher for Rafa to get underneath the ball with his forehand. Roger also talks about the fact that Rafa might not be able to stand that far back to return and calls Rafa the best ever in returning serves from that far back, even on hard courts.
3. I think Roger knows this will be big challenge given how well Rafa has been playing bu the is confident that the surface will help him a lot as the margins are lower and he also mentioned that his serve would hopefully give him advantage.
VR, thank you for that.
No worries, Eugene
This is Rafa’s year at the second half. two sets to love.
Keeping Fingers Crossed and Hoping Ricky’s Prediction comes true. I like both of them and had a chance to see them Live(not against each other. i wish I get chance sometime)but this time i Badly want Rafa to win so he can have get at least one trophy at Shanghai(later part of the season.
Another Fed vs Rafa…are we lucky or what ?!!!!….Fed in straight.
Yeah, Federer will win in 2 or 3 it doesn’t matter as long as he wins.
Scoot Dimon are you related to Ricky Dimon?
Stan M&M licious,
How big are you going with the Federer bet? $1000 or $2000 or more?
Are you betting on Fed to win the 1 st set?
Are you going ML on Fed or +1.5 sets fed?
Who wins in the Doubles today?
Henri Kontinen/John Peers or Lukasz Kubot/Marcelo Melo
Like Kubot and melo to pull it off in 3.
Scoot Dimon are you related to Ricky Dimon?
I asked the same question before and scoot has scooted my question conveniently.
I think Scoot Dimon and Ricky Dimon are the same. Just alias. Probably creating more traffic here! Good for website stats!lol
As usual, the Grandstand prediction are pretty much strictly along party lines, as it really should be for this particular match. And let’s be honest, Rafa playing the best fast court tennis of his career and on a great win streak, combined with Fed’s significant historical edge over Rafa in post-US Open matches, makes this match very much a toss-up. Of course if one of the them ends up winning in straight sets, then those fans will say, “See, I knew _____ didn’t have a chance!” 🙂
If Federer serves well, he will win this match. If he struggles with his first serves again, Nadal will take this. Pre-match prediction is 55/45 for Nadal based on his current form.
Even if Fed serves well, he may not win, as Rafa’s ROS this late HC season is incredible.
Very true, Lucky. He will need to serve well AND be successful in dictating after the serve in order to win this match. If both guys do that, then it will come down to which one will “blink first”, as Fed himself says. When it comes down it, me choosing Rafa to win in 3 is really more of a guess than a prediction. All factors included, this should be the toughest match to predict that they’ve had in a while. Basically, I will not be the least bit surprised by any outcome here. I guess maybe I would be surprised if it was straight sets with loss of less than 8 games, for either of them. But aside from a blowout like that, I won’t be surprised by either of them winning, in either straight sets or in three. I strictly expect it to be close for at least part of it.
As a Fedfan, Id agree Nadal has a slight edge going into this.
Federer hasn’t been at his nest since Wimby,and he’ll need to be.
Other factor is the crowd !
The crowd won’t be a problem, as there’re many Rafafans too! Also, Rafa is used to DC rowdy crowd, it won’t be an issue for Rafa. Not everyone is pro Fed!
ProFed? Yeah, just like all us Fedfans.
They did announce Roger as the GOAT before the Delpo match, but I cant see them doing that before this final !
It be too proFed, as you put it .
Rafa will break the Fed 2017 jinx.
Rafa for the W!
Vamos!
Lol!
#4-0 or 5 wins in a roll
Keep calm, remain focused, be confident, stay strong and show your fighting spirit, Rafa!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMKBcfRX0AA-c50.jpg
ROGERLICIOUS!
https://www.rolex.com/content/dam/rolexcom/sponsoring/every-rolex-tells-a-story/roger-federer/ertas_roger_federer_champion_0001_480x400.jpg
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/roger-federer.jpg%3Fquality%3D85
Rafa to win in 2 sets over Federer.
Federer’s level has definitely dropped off. If Delpo had not lost focus after those stupid tirades with the umpire, plus letting the crowd get to him, we would not be having a Fedal final. I would be more tense it were Rafa he was was up against today.
Rafa in 3 sets, dropping the 2nd comme d’habitude.
What’s with the right knee?? Gosh, Rafa, not again! 😢
:O I am not focusing on that.
Roof is closed. Fastest conditions on the tour and INDOOR
Just spotted the bandaged knee 🙁
0-30 for Rafa.
Rog’s ROS doing it again. 15-40! Rafa, get better angle if you are using that slider again and again!
DO NOT LOSE SERVE HERE
And he changes the serve on the ad court! DEUCE! vamos
Rafa is NOT hitting his backhand freely . He is nervous.
So far this has been similar to Indian wells!!
And he loses serve 🙁 shit
I am SO MUCH hating this start
Fed seems to be running away with this
Rafas so called strong improved BH leaking errors
Rafa has missed every single aggressive shot so far. They have been barely wide but still. His backhand CC has not been 50% of what we have seen last 2 weeks. I hope he settles down quickly.
I’m chain-smoking already 🙁
Rafa finally hit a good CC backhand but Roger responds with a CC forehand winner ! Roger’s defending of Rafa’s CC backhand has really improved this year.
Rafa hitting the better now.
settle down rafa..settle down…
I guess knee taping is just a precaution. I dont see any problems with the movement so far. He is anyway going to rest a lot now for sure.
Rafa cranks a 167 kph second serve into Roger’s body and earns a free point.
Funny thing has been that he had a high first serve % in the first game where he got broken. He just couldn’t keep it out of fed’s striking zone consistently enough and missed some shots. Fed has been in the zone from the first game.
Boy o boy, Rafa must win here!
Anyways I did not expect Rafa to make the final in Shanghai ..the fact that he reached is a bonus..expecting him to beat Fed on his fav surface that too indoors is asking for too much
don’t lose hope this quickly. He is finding better rhyhtm now. The start was BAD but he is matching Fed better now.
Rafa is starting to find the range on his backhand..
Lol the timing on Roger’s CC forehand is immaculate so far. Really impressive
I take back what I said earlier about Fed’s level.
Fed is rushing Rafa justttt enough
Wow Rafa’s down-the-T serve is working wonders on the Ad court. Should not have tested Roger’s backhand return too much in game 1.
Its high quality stuff so far !!
rafa seems to be slowly settling down..if he keeps his errors in check..can turn it around
Literally went to the toilet for a minute and this game was over lol. Was it an ace fest?
yep i think fed hit 3 aces in that game. he’s serving better than i expected
Rafa should attack Fed’s BH more…he is hesitant to do so probably due to Fed’s great counterattack in IW but I think Rafa’s forehands have improved since then…Fed is aggressive and serving great! This super fast surface suits his game perfectly…
Yeah just needs to be careful with attacking the backhand though. Needs to go at it with good depth coz Roger’s flattening it out. I agree that he should go for it a bit more. Rafa’s hitting better now and his backhand is much better than it was in IW or Miami.
What are these cheap errors from Rafa?! 30-30 now. If he loses serve again here, he is all to blame himself.
Rafa’s CC backhand !!! VAMOS
i think rafa will turn it around
It is the Roger serve that worries me most.
It’s time to break him back Rafa!
Vamos!
Roger is playing very calmly and within himself. Mixing it up a bit, going for his shots, but not playing hyper-aggressive. Rafa not missing by much, but just enough for Fed to have the edge so far. I think this is a key service game with new balls.
agreed.
Rafa’s also trying to figure out his ROS position. He knows standing too far back against Fed is this court might not be ideal but he also knows he must make good contact with the ball.
Well done R. Federer, let’s take the 1st set.
How many times has Rafa ever come back to win after losing the first set to Fed?
I know he has in slams and also in Cincy 2013 he lost 1st set
Rafa really should have mixed up the serve more in the first game as well. He gave Roger the rhyhtm right in the first game.
Anyway, both men serving and hitting quite well now. If Roger’s serving quality drops, Rafa will have his chances in the second set.
Rafa was just unlucky, he got 15-40 down, after that his service games have been better. But Fed has been a better player so far , although very slightly. The only difference is Fed’s serve. Rafa struggling to put the ball in play.
yep. The Fed serve has been impenetrable so far.
since carlos not here, i anyway knew it will make a big difference. Rafas biggest victories have come with carlos around
Fed beat Djoker on this court in 2014 I think, when Nole was on role. Fed always likes Shanghai . Court speed is just so much to his liking.
Nah, in 2014 Djoko just got married and he did poorly on US HCs. It’s in 2015 that Djoko was on a roll. Fed got knocked out in his first match here in 2015 while Djoko won the title.
If Fed keeps this serving level he will win. He won 83% of 2nd serves, which is incredible against Nadal. Rafa’s serve is very good too, and getting better, but I think Roger will have more chances on Nadal’s serve than the other way. Roger is playing better from the baseline, hitting angles that take advantage of Nadal’s deep court position.
ALl this Blah Blah beforehand, and no one knows that the player has an injury.
Nadal has Patellar tendonitis as you can see and even before the second game was done you could see he cannot put weight on his lead leg, also once he tried to shake it out. Easy bet on Federer -175 after 1st game.
Im impressed tho, Nadal is compensating by using his upper body to deliver very good service. However, there will be no power on his shots while moving. This I can tell you. Trump. GG.
Awesome from TMF. Time for Rafa to recalibrate his tactics.
Fedal matches these days more often then not turn out to be damo squibs than block blusters. Perhaps only at slams that we may see them playing their best at the same time.
This match is disappointing, from Rafa, it’s as if he couldn’t run anymore. What happened to his knee, why is it taped up? Why in such a crucial or important match that he has this problem and plays like this? Fed is going to win in straight sets if Rafa continues to play so poorly!
Patellar tendonitis, use your brain.
spider is very rude; you use your brain when posting here and not often regular posters here! Mind your manners!
*offend, not ‘often’.
What is rude is fans will consider this a win and criticize when clearly the player is injured. I applaud him for showing up to battle at least.
Fed serving like this and getting Rafa’s short balls on return which gives him enough time to run around and hit his inside out forehands is the key to the match! Rafa not finding solutions out there…I stil think Rafa should be attacking Fed’s BH more aggressively..,
Wrong.
The king is balling big time.
Who is THE BEST?
Roger Federer is rocking baby.
#4-0
CRUCIAL hold. Rafa’s backhand CC is on now and the most entertaining battle is Rafa backhand Vs Roger forehand. Rafa needs the angle more than the pace.
Now Roger, please lower your serving quality.
More blah blah.
That was a decent return, had roger on the back foot but missed a very make-able backhand DTL . Bad Rafa! Anyway, hold serve now!
Excuses from rafans as usual, your guy is getting smoked Haha, wooooooooohoooooo!
What excuses? I’m a fan of both players. I bet Federer game 1 when I saw his leg. You have a clear handicapped match here. No contest.
Rubbish!
What is? My bet, his injury, or your blind fanatic rhetoric?
Where is my baby? Where is she?
Easiest service game for Rafa, and Roger’s level has dropped a bit from the baseline. He has to be careful here; this is a game he could get broken. If so, it would be the first time since January in Melbourne.
Joe Smith, you doubted Fed, not cool.
Well, I’m very glad I was wrong in that game Stanley. But Rafa had a good chance, as I thought he might. But he couldn’t convert, and now Fed has the break in the 2nd set.
That was a poor miss from Rafa on 40-30 :/
Rafa is playing poorly. Why must he have a knee problem in such an important match? It’s so hard to watch when he’s playing so lack luster after yesterday’s great SF.
I don’t think he’s playing that poorly, Lucky. Roger is giving him a lot of trouble, and he’s missed a lot of shots by inches. I don’t see that the knee is affecting his movement.
Excellent! Don’t let rafans deceive U.
Come on baby, we are almost there.
Wow.
He must create more pressure on Roger’s serve. Roger will try to open his shoulders more on the return games otherwise.
Even if R. Federer loses the 2nd set, he is winning this match pure and simple.
Let’s take home this baby!
Federer has many injuries but he has smoked Rafito thrice, this will make it 4 times in a year, 5 times in a roll.
More Excuses 4rm rafans but i like it.
I like it a lot.
Break , I think Fed has won it . But thats OK. Rafa has played well all thru HC. I hope his knee is alright, this court is just so suiting to Fed’s game.
Missed this game . Rafa got broken lol This is over. He doesn’t have an answer to the Roger serve and Roger is too free on the return games.
Rafa missed the shots he usually gets easily. Clearly Rafa is not playing his game but credit to brilliance of Fed! Rafa fails to even put the pressure on Fed…
This is painful to watch.
horrible from rafa..his ROS which was good all while is pathetic today
Rafa is hurt and non of the commies is acknowledging it.
Vamos Rafa!
Yeah, Rafa’s movement is clearly affected…hope he is ok for the WTF…
He clearly has patellar tendonitis. But these commoner morons are so delusional.
Who is your daddy?
Nadal getting whooped third time in a row by a senior citizen.
how did he get hurt suddenly..why is his knee taped
Chapeau to TMF. Rafa has no answers today,
Awesome play at the net from Rafa to take that service game. Maybe should have tried a bit more of that this match.
The best tennis player ever, no one else.
Roger is G.O.A.T
Roger has been ROGERLICIOUS!
Did your father raise a cheerleader? Congrats.
I dont think its that big a problem. Rafa’s movement has’nt looked like its bad. He did not have anything on knee yesterday, how can he get hurt suddenly. KNEE NEEDS REST NOTHING ELLSE.
clearly delusional and have never played a competitive sport in your life.
At least my sister is happy – she is an avid Fedfan 🙂
Fed is playing well while Rafa is not. This is turning out like IW and Miami! Fed has become a krytonite for Rafa on the HCs.
Rafa has to hope that someone beat Fed at WTF so that Rafa doesn’t have to face Fed at WTF SF or final, if not Rafa would have slightly m chance of winning the title there.
Fed said that he wished to win a title or two, looks like he’s at least winning one now.
*slim chabce
*slim chance.
Rafa drives the nail in his own coffin.
To me, Rafa is his own enemy. He prefers rallying from behind the baseline instead of shortening points by getting up to the fore court, when playing on the HCs. Fed OTOH, plays very effectively on HCs because he not only serves well, but finds ways to move forward most of the time. Fed understands how to win on the HCs.
Rafa prefers his clay court mentality, even though he’s now slowly learning to move forward more often. But, when goings get tough, he’ll revert back to defensive play.
When Rafa plays against aggressive players on HCs, he tends to stay in his counter punching mode; it’s only on clay that he NOW could turn offensive very quickly, llike the way he played against Stan at FO this year. On HCs, he needs more time to get into groove, like at the USO and at Beijing this year. If he continues to play like this, he’s not going to beat Fed on the HCs, because Fed gives you no time to find your groove.
Can Moya convince Rafa to be more offensive on the HCs on the get go? It’s tough, and looks unlikely as it’s too late for Rafa to undo those defensive mindset (he’s having that for almost all of his career so far), and turns offensive suddenly, on a surface he’s not as confidence playing on.
Relax guys . Rafa won the biggest HC title of the second half. Two hoots to the rest of the titles. Rafa was playing well in Wimby and Shanghai, but he lost service game early and he was up against the score. Nobody can play his best when his back is to the wall.
I just hope knee is OK. Rafa has had a stellar HC season.
Rafa has not had an answer in a year.
When he plays fringe player’s he looks good but when he meets the best he chokes, fakes an injury because of shame.
4 times this year, 1 GS, 3 Masters, 3 finals and yet they are still making excuses.
You will never learn.
Thank U R. Federer, you are the best, all you haters can go cry now.
R. Federer defeated Nadal in straight sets & under games in all 3 masters.
Who is your daddy?
5 straight wins for Roger. Have to wonder, again, what this rivalry would have been like had Roger switched to a larger racquet 10 years ago.
Maybe Nadal’s knee made a difference, but I think a bigger factor was simply confidence. Roger came out calm, confident, just as a guy who has beaten his rival 3 straight times on this surface this year would expect to be. He played a terrific match, served brilliantly, and never really got out of the zone he started in. Rafa still has had an incredible hard court season, of course, better than Roger’s with the major title. Congrats to both of them.
Joe, I was equally pleased about Roger’s confidence and calmness. He is so much stronger in this state. I knew before the match started this factor is going to be more decisive than their current form. It can switch quickly, especially on this surface.
Congratulations to Rafa for this incredible series of 16 wins in a row on HC.
Yes, that was a good call on your part, Eugene. I was wrong: I just thought Nadal had played so brilliantly against Dimitrov and Cilic -both of whom I thought played terrific tennis still to lose- that I thought Rafa would take this one. He didn’t play as well as he had been, but Roger just played top shelf tennis.
Joe, did you see Fed serving this well in say 2008/2009 or 2010/2011? He had back issues during 2008/2009 and in 2010/2011, he didn’t serve this well despite not having physical issues.
In addition, when at the slams, Fed won’t be able to sustain his high level over five sets vs a young Rafa. The young Rafa was simply fit and powerful and relentless. You also have to take into account that Rafa is now 31, having endured multiple injuries during his career. He’s certainly no Rafa of his younger days.
Fed has improved his serve and net game to further shorten points, ie he adapts as he gets older. Rafa is trying to shorten points too, at least he’s successful in doing that on clay this season. On the HCs, he’s not able to do that, at least most of the time he’s still playing from behind the baseline, but he did improve his serves and find a way to neutralize big serves by returning from way behind the baseline.
Ten years ago? It would still be the same! Rafa would still be beating Fed on clay, and Fed beating Rafa on indoor HCs.
You think Fed would beat Rafa at AO2009/2012/2014 on slower HCs? Rafa was simply playing some of his best tennis at the HC slams, and he’s physically fit to sustain his level throughout a four of five sets match! Rafa was simply so quick around the court at those times! He forced Fed to run like crazy to keep up with him!
As they both age, they may be able to sustain their high level on their more favorable surfaces – Fed on grass and quick HCs and Rafa on clay. Their level on their less favorable surfaces may go down, and more players may beat them on their less favorable surfaces (already, there were non big four guys beating Fed on clay in the last few years; and beating Rafa on grass and HCs).
AO 2009 final was very close. Fed lost it because Rafa had mental edge due to past victories.
I think 2012 final was a a weird match Fed had upper hand but his serve never used to be on fire throughout 5 sets. In 2012 , Fed started well but then he faded even after winning the first and a break up early.
2014 was Fed’s worst time. He had worst year in 2013. He was losing comfortably to Rafa even in fast indoors (WTF, Cincy)at the end of 2013.
Fed is a much improved player now and he has regained the mental edge against Rafa .
If you ask me to rate Fed and Rafa tactically, I would rate Fed 8 for his scheduling this year to skip Clay, play less number of matches , still remain in race for YE No. 1 and not play Rafa on clay.
On the other hand Rafa has been very ordinary, playing so many matches when he did not need . I hope he skips Bercy and Basel both now.
Well, we just disagree, Lucky. I think Rafa has played the best tennis of his life this year: best at RG, ever, and best on HC in the last few weeks. And Roger has still beaten him 4 straight times.
I’m not saying Federer would have beaten Rafa at RG this year, or even consistently on clay in the past, but their H2H would have been closer on clay, and Roger would have dominated on other surfaces, had he been using the larger racquet 10 years ago. That’s my opinion.
Yeah I think there is pretty much no question that if he had this racket back then the rivalry could be much different. He’s 5-1 vs Rafa with this racket and the one loss he had was right when he was starting to use it in AO 2014. The bigger racket head just makes his backhand so much better than it used to be which is part of why he is playing at this level at 36 years old (along with his incredible fitness and scheduling of course). People forget that a lot of the reason Rafa used to beat Roger on clay was because Roger sliced his backhand so much because he would shank too much when hitting over it and that made is backhand an easy target. Now that is no problem at all. I’m not saying Roger would win the majority of their clay matches or something but he could’ve made the clay court head to head closer and because of this had less demons from the clay court encounters that affected him in matches on other surfaces like the Wimbledon 2008 final. It’s all hypothetical and we will never know but it is something interesting to think about.
Benny, Fed didn’t slice his BH on clay, please! Fed isn’t stupid, slices didn’t work well on clay! Rafa’s topspin FH to Fed’s BH on clay was the killer shot as Fed had to hit his BH at shoulder level, how could he slice his BH?? So what with bigger racket? He still would have to hit it shoulder height!
His slices worked better on grass and quicker low bouncing surfaces like indoor HCs. But, like I said, Fed was already beating Rafa on indoor HCs all along, so whete’s the difference with or without bigger racket? Fed mentioned that it won’t change the Wimbledon 2008 result either as Fed himself was affected mentally by his FO2008 beating!
That’s not strictly true about the slice on clay .It was one of Federers effective weapons when he won the RG .
That’s my point. He was affected by the FO beating which could’ve been a lot closer with the bigger racket head. Notice I’m saying “could.” And Fed did slice a lot on all surfaces including clay especially when he played Nadal because the topspin of Nadal was tough for him but with a bigger racket head it could’ve been different. Even now on hard courts, Fed handles Rafa’s forehand with his backhand so much better than he used to, hence the five straight wins, which by the way included an IW beatdown (not a quick low bouncing surface) and a straight set win in Miami too.
And slices can also work well on clay. The ball dies easier especially if it’s that shorter slice that Fed occasionally lures opponents in with. But more importantly clay has different bounces and slices can lead to pretty funky bounces especially if they land on lines or slightly deeper patches in the ground.
Benny, the ball bounce was always uneven on clay, even if Fed sliced the ball well on clay, the bounce would still be higher on clay than on other surfaces! Rafa was so quick with his movement on clay, that he would still reach the ball in time. Dont underestimate Rafa on clay.
Also, using a bigger racket would affect the quality of Fed’s slices, do notice his slices these days are less effective than when he was using the smaller racket, that’s the trade off of using a bigger racket. Do also note that Fed had the best BH slices in the game when he’s using his smaller racket and his opponents couldn’t deal with it, esp the righties. Rafa was the only exception because of his lefty topspin FH.
You people are so quick to jump in as if the bigger racket is Fed’s savior vs Rafa, but you forget that’ll affect the quality of his slices which were so effective vs everyone else in the past. On clay, even with a bigger racket and Fed trying to take the ball early on his BH side, I’m not sure Fed would have much success vs Rafa’s topspin FH, because on clay, Rafa has all the time in the world to move to his shots, whether they land close to the net or anywhere else in the court.
All these ‘Fed would’ve done better against Rafa on clay, if he had been playing with a bigger racket in the past’ talks, to me, are just mere conjectures. You are assuming Fed would then take the ball early at that time, but, Fed wasn’t playing like he’s playing now, when he was playing back then. If not, he would have tried taking the ball early in the first place, with his smaller racket at that time, or moved his feet quick enough at his BH corner to hit his FH instead, but he couldn’t do that at that time.
Benny, you talked as if Rafa was an amateur on clay! Come on, he had played close to 400 matches on clay, you think he had not already dealt with bad bounces on clay? Or slices on clay? Don’t forget, Fed at those times was slicing well and could slice well on clay too vs other opponents not named Rafa. If his slices were effective on clay vs Rafa, you think he won’t use them against Rafa?
I don’t think so, Fed himself admitted that bigger racket or not, Rafa would beat him on clay and would not change the outcome of Wimbledon 2008 final.
As Fedexal mentioned above, those AO encounters they had prior to this year, Fed wasn’t serving or playing well. Also, over BO5, Rafa had the edge over Fed all along because Rafa could sustain his high level of play throughout a whole match almost always whilst Fed or even Djoko at his best couldnt.
You talked about Rafa playing better now than ever, but Fed during 2008-2016 wasn’t playing as well as he’s now either. As I’ve mentioned earlier, Fed was not serving well during 2008-2009; he wasn’t playing particularly well during 2010 and 2011 either, except during this part of the season in both years (Fed did win AO2010 though).
Fed was playing well in 2012 but he only met Rafa twice in that year, and they’re 1-1 that year, Rafa winning at AO. Fed wasn’t playing particularly well at AO2012 either, started his match vs Rafa well but his level dropped after the first one or two sets. You can’t just think that with a bigger racket, he would maintain his level of play throughout, things don’t work that way. Fed was poor in 2013 when Rafa beat him four times, a bigger racket won’t help either, as he’s having physical problem.
I really don’t see how ten years ago playing with a bigger racket would change the H2H dynamic significantly, to me there’s not much difference. Fed has been beating Rafa on indoor quicker HCs all along, and Rafa beating Fed on slower outdoor HCs, they really meet on quick outdoor HCs. I don’t think that’s going to change even now; Rafa may beat Fed at IW and Miami come next year; remember, Rafa is playing significantly better now than earlier this season on the HCs. Fed OTOH will continue to beat Rafa on quick HCs, indoor or outdoor.
*they rarely met on quick outdoor HCs.
Big Al, Fed’s slices couldn’t deal with Rafa’s topspin on clay! Fed didn’t beat Rafa when he won RG; he beat Delpo, Haas, Sod, all of them not hitting topspin but hitting relatively flat shots compared to Rafa’s topspin shots.
Fed doesn’t have to do as much running now that he takes the ball earlier off both sides due to the racket head size. Think of this. Fed played a great match against Nadal in AO 2009. Didn’t have this bigger racket head that has improved the consistency and confidence in his backhand tremendously. Imagine Roger playing that final that he barely lost with a better backhand. I’m not saying the result would’ve been different but it very well could’ve been as it could’ve been in many other matches.
Benny, how do you know Fed at that time would take the ball earlier with a bigger racket? He was basically playing from the baseline at that time, not moving into the court that often, unlike what he’s doing now.
It’s easy for you to say so now after seeing how he’s playing now – more net rushing and more inside the court, but back then that’s not how he played!
Yes, AO 2009 he was playing more passive esp.on break points.
He’s much more aggressive and mixes it up better now.
I think the conditions were slower ten years ago on most surfaces, certainly the AO
Obviously the larger racquet would have changed a lot of things: better, more consistent serve, BH, more aggressive play, all translating into greater confidence and more wins on all surfaces.
The basic point is this: if Roger can play this kind of tennis at 36, there is no reason to think he couldn’t have played at least as well (and almost certainly better) at 26. As I’ve said before, he basically played with inferior equipment for years. Imagine Rafa playing with 1989 strings.
Come on Joe, Fed as a top player playing with inferior equipment?? Are you joking? Do know that Fed using his smaller racket for better feel, playing his kind of tennis when timing is everything. If he’s using the bigger racket all along, he won’t be the player he is now, ie he’s not as special as he is known now.
Your main concern is he beating Rafa but I’ll say it’ll make no difference in their H2H, as Rafa was simply so far ahead on clay, and, Rafa would adapt to playing against Fed’s the bigger racket when Rafa was younger, quicker and more powerful. And, Fed may end up not having all his wins this season against Rafa should Rafa already played against Fed’s bigger racket all along, just think!
Well, Lucky, the question is why Roger has won 5 straight against Nadal, when he never came close to that before. My explanation is (mostly) the larger racquet, which I’ve argued many times before has generally yielded superior results at an age (32-36) that most tennis players have either retired or are in serious decline.
What do you think best explains Roger’s H2H advantage this year?
Lucky, I think you’re missing the forest for the trees. You obviously have a good knowledge of all their particularly past matches, but you seem not to acknowledge that something has changed -for the positive – in Federer’s play the last few years and this year in particular against Rafa. That improvement has coincided with:
1. Roger starting to use the larger racquet; and
2. Roger being between the ages of 32-36.
Bear in mind that Rafa, Nole, Andy, despite being relatively old in tennis terms, are not yet as old as Roger was at the start of 2014. In other words, he was very old when he switched racquets! And his results the last 4 years (2 slam titles, 5 finals, several masters) are better than they were for the previous 4. The best explanation for improved play in what should be normal decline from his early-mid 30s is the larger racquet.
My suggestion, which is obviously speculative, is that based on his improbable results over the last four years, Federer would have been a much better player, with even better results, had he adopted the larger racquet much earlier, say, in 2007.
Joe, why don’t you look at their H2H all these years, and see for yourself how Fed was going to win all those matches that he had lost to Rafa?
I have already explained about his past AO losses (not forgetting the AOs in the past we’re on slower surfaces, unlike this year).
Fed lost to Rafa at Miami 2004, not because of his BH! Rafa was simply playing unbelievable attacking tennis at that time, winning all or almost all his points when he was at the net; and he was there quite a few times.
Rafa beat Fed at Dubai in 2006; Fed was playing well the whole match, and Rafa wasn’t even attacking Fed’s BH all the time during that match!
Rafa beat Fed at IW 2011 but that was a one sided match because Fed was awful in that match; could a bigger racket save him then? You ask yourself and answer honestly.
In 2013, Rafa beat Fed at IW, Cincy and WTF; Fed had physical issues that year and Rafa was playing well all year, you think bigger racket would help Fed? Cincy was a quick HC at that time so it’s not about Rafa attacking Fed’s BH to win the match, it’s because of Rafa playing well and Fed not so. Likewise at WTF, which through the years, was playing slower and with high bounces.
Fed had explained it himself, that with bigger racket, he wasn’t going to beat Rafa on clay, and at Wimbledon 2008. He had two wins on clay vs Rafa, and came close at Rome 2006, having MP, but it’s his own poor play at MP that allowed Rafa to turn the match around. Fed also seemed to have the upper hand at Hamburg 2008 but still didn’t win in the end. Would a bigger racket give him more confidence at that time? Maybe, who knows, but, Fed wasn’t beaming with confidence that year in 2008 after losing at the SF at the AO to Djoko; would he be confident vs Rafa on clay even with a bigger racket in hand?
Many talked about that FO2011 final, the first set when a poor line call had cost Fed the set. But, winning a set vs Rafa at the FO won’t guarantee a win over him; Rafa had lost a set to Fed at all but one (2008) of their encounters at RG. Rafa still turn the match around to win in the end (he even lost two sets vs Djoko in 2013, still came back to win in the end!).
As I’ve mentioned, Fed had been winning on quicker surfaces over Rafa, and on occasions beat Rafa on slower HC surfaces and on clay at two occasions. It’s not like Fed was hopeless vs Rafa all along; so with an improved BH these year he was able to beat Rafa on quick HC surfaces on two occasions (AO and Shanghai) and at IW/Miami (he had also beaten Rafa on these two surfaces in the past – IW 2012; Miami 2005). Fed also beat Rafa at Basel 2015, not surprising as it’s indoor HC.
Joe, you’re the one missing the point! You’re the one who mentioned the past ten years, not me! And, I said there won’t be much differences in the past ten years, Fed’s big racket or not!
You keep talking about the five wins Fed has/had now but that’s not ten years ago! You’re barking at the wrong tree; I’ve never disputed regarding Fed’s recent five wins. He won all of them fair and square!
Joe, do bear in mind from 2008 to 2013, Fed had to face two big four players in their prime/peak. They were winning 16 out of 24 slams played during that period, ie two third of all the slams available.
Even if Fed was using a bigger racket then, are you telling me he’s going to beat Rafa at the FO, and at Wimbledon 2008 (when Fed himself didn’t even think so?)? Fed had physical problem at AO2008, a bigger racket could change that?? Or was Fed going to win all four slams in 2009 with a bigger racket?? Fed clearly wasn’t playing all that well at AO and USO Finals, having mental lapses during his matches and his opponents – Rafa and Delpo – were playing very well. Would a bigger racket prevented all those lapses?
Or, you think with a bigger racket, Fed would beat Berdych or Djoko at Wimbledon in 2010? I’m not sure they’re afraid of Fed’s BH, when Berdych could beat him despite Fed’s BH slices being so effective on grass. Or with a bigger racket, Fed would beat Djoko at USO2010 and 2011? Well Djoko had his ‘lucky’ shots remember? Also, I’m not sure Fed’s BH with a bigger racket could beat Djoko’s world class DHBH. Could Fed with a bigger racket beat Tsonga at Wimbledon 2011 and prevented a five sets melt down after leading two sets to zero? The problem seemed to be more about Fed’s collapse than Tsonga suddenly upping his level. Djoko at AO2011 was almost unbeatable, beating Fed in straight sets though Fed has his chances in some 7-5 or 7-6 sets if I remember correctly. Djoko was simply a better and more steady player, would a bigger racket help Fed?
Fed had his physical issues in 2013; in 2012 he was beaten by Berdych at USO and Djoko at FO despite having a relatively good to great year for a 30/31 yo. Fed lost in a bizarre manner to Djoko at FO, losing meekly in straight sets. His loss to Berdych, well I couldn’t remember how that happened, was his BH a liability in that match?
From 2014 onwards, you’ve been talking about that a few times, so not going to elaborate anymore.
I would say Fed’s slices were most effective on lower bouncing surfaces when playing against Rafa, hence his wins over Rafa all these years on indoor low bouncing HCs.
On slower outdoor HCs when the bounces were higher, Fed lost his slicing effectiveness vs Rafa. It’s no coincidence that Rafa was winning mostly the battles on outdoor slower HCs vs Fed and Fed winning on quicker low bouncing indoor HCs.
This year at IW and Miami were the exceptions, as Rafa was still finding his groove on the HCs (I think he surprised himself for playing so well to reach the AO final!) but he was less impressive playing at Acapulco and then the IW/Miami Masters. It was during the clay season that his game finally took off, and it’s a petty that he had to lose in R4 Wimbledon after playing a 4+ hours match and losing 13-15 or was it 15-17 ? in the fifth set.
I am more keen to know whats wrong with the knee in presser. I anyway expected this loss and said it all along , indoors fast court Rafa cant beat Fed . Rafa wont beat Fed this year, he will next year first on his preferred surface.
I’m been getting Koinig’s commentary. He didn’tt once mentioned Rafa was hobbled by his knee injury. It’s not an excuse it’s a fact.
I wanna give BIG BIG CONGRATS to BIG Al,Eugene,Joe Smith & other Fedfans on here…Rog deserves the win….He’s AWESOME!!Enjoy it guys!!
Thanks, Mira. That’s very gracious of you, as usual. And congrats to Rafa on a great HC season so far!
Thank you Mira 🙂 it takes lots of strength and heart to congratulate your favorite player’s opponent. They are both champions.
Awww…Thank u so much for your words Joe & Eugene!….Really really appreciate it!!..But Fed really was AWESOME today!His defense is out of this world still!Urgh!!….
While Rafa…well..he can’t win when he play like that!..Too much nerves on the house!!…Not sure his knees impacted him or not…but thank u for your words on Rafa as well k guys!!
Thanks Mira! Pity I also picked Dimitrov to beat Nadal , it was bold !
anyways its not surprising..fast indoor rafa beating roger is 1% chance. he has lost to him all times except 2013..i just was hoping it wasnt straights…
now to presser and knee..hope someone asks…
Excuses.
Honestly, Congrats to R. Nadal he is an Amazing player, what he has achieved this is year is Incredible.
R. Federer has also been great, more than great, this guy is an inspiration.
Congrats to both guy’s, Congrats to R. Federer!
And if you are a Rafan, you should be proud of him, he is #1 and has won many titles.
Don’t mind my passion and some of my words.
We have been spoilt with lot’s of Fedal and great tennis this year.
Stanley, are you having sugar issues?
Lenny, i missed your comment and you probably won’t get this but that was funny.
This is the 1st time that i am reading your comment, why don’t you come more often.
Rafa is not Djoko or Fed on the HCs; he can’t win B2B HC titles, the 2013 NAHC swing was a rare exception. He could play well at Beijing but he’s not as aggressive here at Shanghai. His counterpunching mentality won’t let him win weeks after weeks on the HCs.
Fed just doesn’t let off his guard today and plays quickly to hold off Rafa. I see the same disappointed expression on Rafa’s face like at the AO early this year. Moya please drill into Rafa’s mindset,to be aggressive and offensive at the get go, and stop wasting precious energy defending and counterpunching on the HCs. He has all the weapons to win on the HCs, he has to conserve energy and wins points quickly.
Roger is simply the best no excuses.
Tennis is tennis no matter were is played, obviously some player’s prefer a particular surface but that’s no excuse.
You were all high & mighty but now you disappoint me, stop making excuses 4 rafa’s loss, he played the best and lost that’s not entirely a bad thing.
Respect is reciprocal.
Stanley, u still trying to convince ureself and others that Roger is the best?!!!
Surface IS an excuse bcos Roger has not had great results against Rafa on clay!! So the same argument perfectly applies here!! Stop being so biased!!
You are so happy Roger won bcos deep down u had ure doubts! So go drink a beer and enjoy the win but stop gloating, its beneath u!!
Monalisa, Monalisa, Monalisa, Monalisa( i am singing your name).
Mona, R. Federer is the best and i put my money where mouth is.
I don’t want write a lot but there are truths about that surface stuff, i believe a good player will adjust and get better on any surface if they mean business.
I never doubted Fed’s victory, from the beginning i knew this baby was coming home and she is safe and sound.
Mona Lisa,
Stanley is trolling. It’s what he does. You know how people like that need attention at any cost?
Just pay him no mind. Nothing better to do.
Dont expect Rafa to win WTF Rafans..It is again indoors ..95% Roger will take it
I agree, but u never know. I remember the time Roger smoked him there a few years ago, lol!! It was not pretty!!
Rafa is a good player and can win it, please stop making excuses, clay, indoors, hard, grass it doesn’t matter a good player will learn quickly, and adjust.
How many years have rafa been playing tennis?
Is R. Nadal a baby?
Is he not #1?
You guy’s are crazy with all this stupid excuses.
He lost to a good guy and if they played again, rafa will lose.
Stanley
Be a sport and don’t gloat too much.
Ed, i am not gloating, i hate all this denial & excuses.
If R. Federer had lost, i won’t be trying to belittle his opponent’s victory by bring up age, court, back problems or injuries etc.
Some of this guy’s sound like babies, who can’t handle a loss properly, i am disappointed, i thought some of this guy’s were mature but this…
Though Rafa lost in straight, if he could just get into BP, situation could change and play into the mind.
But Roger’s serve is just untouchable today, giving him the confidence to repeatedly hitting winners.
Very possibly they would meet again in O2 final.
R. Federer will defeat rafa again if the meet, especially in 02.
Rafa goofed up 3rd oppty against same guy..AO double career slam , Miami 1st and Shanghai 1st
Congratulations to Roger!! This seemed to be easy win for him!
Glad at least Rafa made finals here but he was a little off on his game today! Thought he would have st least win a set, lol!!
Now go rest Rafa and prepare for WTF. Take care if that knee!!
Yeah. I don’t care about it now. Fed in Rafa’s head but to be honest Fed played amazing today. He is the new Djokovic of 2011 for Rafa.
I’m very disappointed with Rafa’s loss today; he missed a good chance of winning Shanghai when Djoko isn’t here. I doubt he’s going to win here when all the big four guys are back.
He better win WTF. Thats more important. Even Roger has not won Rome and MonteCarlo even once. Does anyone speak about it? Nole ha snot won Cincy.
I think Rafa will withraw from Basel and probbaly play Paris if knee is OK. Otherwise he might even withraw from Paris, the only risk is , he might not want to go into WTF without any tennis in last one month.
Rafa will never miss both events unless he is injured. He will will Basel and play Paris. Both men really want YE #1 and will do whatever it takes.
Fed now might seriously consider playing Paris. If he’d lost today, he would have skipped but now he will try to win both Basel and Paris.
rafa is injured..the taping was not just a precaution
Relax !! He is injured, but he can skip whole of the season. He has around 2 months of rest if the need arises. Rafa should have skipped Chinese swing and Fed was right. Laver Cup and Chinese swing took a heavy toll on Rafa.
You bet Fed would be smart. Playing so many matches together can take a toll. Fed wont play Bercy for sure.
I think Rafa should be fine for WTF. Taping your knee is a diplomatic way of saying “NO” to Basel. Ok ?
Atleast Moya will be in WTF as its in UK..close to home….some hope for Rafa..
Moya can’t win a single match.
I was hopeful that Rafa could win WTF, but seeing how Fed schooled him today I have to lower by hopes. He is not beating Fed and Fed will not lose to anyone else. Rafa has to reach the final or semis to ensure No.1 ranking.
I love that he “schooled” him.
YE No 1 seriously in danger now..I think Rafa is 1960 points ahead…Roger is surely winning Basel which will narrow gap to 1460 and that will leave it all down to WTF with 1500 point up for grabs. I am not sure if both will play Bercy
I think gap is 1600 points. even if Roger wins Basel and WTF(remember all matches give him 1500 points), if Rafa makes to the semis, Rafa will end year number 1. How is number 1 seriously in danger . Do some mathematics for god sake .
Lol!! I’m not losing hope on YE#1 for Rafa, anything can happen, this is tennis, y’all!!!
you do the maths man..I know what I am talking , dont tell me to do the maths 🙂
Basel has 500 points..Bercy has 1000..if roger plays both and wins..its 1500 points there..the gap is 1960 now..if Roger plays and wins both Basel and bercy the gap is down to 460..if its down to 460..rafa has to win the final if both make the final
Roger aint playing Bercy. Do you think he is playing 3 weeks out of 4. If he is, let him risk everything and win everything. He will be all gassed . If year end 1 loses early in AO, to me he is a loser, Murray went thru same fate this year, rafa went thru same fate in 2011. To hell with YE number 1
True fedexal, players like them can’t afford to overplay if they want to stay fit and fresh for the majors. Rafa made the mistake by doing the charity exhibition with Fed at end of 2010, after his successful 2010, and he got injured at AO2011 when playing against Ferrer and blew his chances of winning four slams in a row.
This victory was very important to show whatever happened at the beginning of the year wasn’t because of Nadal not playing well but Fed was better. Now since they didn’t play against eachother for a long time many expected the result could be different but it remained the same.
Fed made my day
Yes, but it would be nice for Fed to show up during the clay court swing!! Let’s c what happens there!! Let’s hope Fed does not dodge it again next year!!
lol this comment doesn’t make much sense. The conditions at the beginning of the year were WAY different. Rafa is actually playing a lot better as compared to the start of the year but these conditions (fastest court on the tour being played indoors) is just way more suited to Fed’s game.
Now, I am not going to lie and say I always knew this would be the outcome. Yes, because Rafa was playing so well and because Roger hasn’t served extremely well , I thought Rafa does have a good chance but I never made any predictions of Nadal winning.
Even though some patterns of play have changed, Roger has always had the clear upper hand in these conditions when he plays his best. Anyone remember WTF 2011 ? Roger smoked Rafa 6-3 6-0 ! They meet in a month’s time in Australian Open and Rafa beats him in 4 sets! Had to think of more suitable conditions for Fed’s game than we had here. He served so well and was always in command.
The most important factor in the outcome of a match is the current form and in that aspect it was Nadal who was better, but assuming Fed form was not good is not correct. If you clearly watch as the tournament progressed Fed’s improved drastically. The match against Delpo going to 3sets is not an indication of just a decent form. You have to consider how good Delpo is in fast hard courts. Infact after watching semis I started believing now Fed has reached a state where he could take on Nadal, but he went a step higher in the finals. If you notice one thing Fed’s none of the service has gone to even deuce.
Fed may play and win both Basel and WTF and may skip Paris. So, he may get 2000 points there. As long as Rafa wins a RR match or two at WTF, he’ll be the YE no.1. Had Rafa won here at Shanghai, things might get a bit easier for him; too bad he’s not up to the challenge today.
I think Rafa should skip both Basel and Paris now to rest his knee; he’s not looking good now with his knee taped up when playing. It’s better to rest and treat the knee than carry on playing at Basel. I don’t understand how Rafa arrange his schedule, he seems wanting to play everything in sight; I mean the players only need to play one 500 event after USO, why is he wanting to play two 500 events? Why not play one and then play Shanghai and Paris Masters instead?
He doesn’t need the points or the appearance fees, why plays everywhere and on the HCs instead of getting enough rest? He should trim his schedule next year, plays may be 15 events or at the max 17.
So, he has played one 500 event. Thats it. He will withraw from Basel now.
Oh no, what is going on? What the hell is Fed eating now?
😢
Chinese noodles.
Superb performance from Federer, so congrats to him and all his fans here, Rafa had no answers, better player won, still alot to play for this year, hope Rafa bounces back hes still having a superb year, and continuing to put himself into contention for titles, and is still the world number 1, i think he can sleep easily still with his achievements this year 😉
This comment is amazing, so much respect and you are is still hopeful.
I like you Alison and i know rafa will bounce back, that’s what a good player does.
1. Nadal, 10465
2. Federer, 8505
No, way Fed can grab year end no. 1 with almost 2000 points difference. IF Fed wants to play Bercy, let him play and exhaust before WTF. If he does not play, Rafa needs to win only 1 match in WTF to end year end number 1. Its simple mathematics. Rafa can even withraw from Bercy and just focus on WTF.
all you saying is true if Fed withdraws from Bercy..but what if he doesnt?
Bercy and WTF are a week apart..so Fed will get a full week rest. I dont expect him to pull out of Bercy is he wins Basel..
Roger can’t win Basel and Bercy both. Its real tough. Lot of players will be fighting for Bercy to make it to WTF. What if Roger playes Bercy and does not make a lot of points in Bercy. He gets neither rest nor points. He will be exhausted for WTF.
Rafa needs to be smart here. I think he is skipping Basel for sure. If knees are a problem, he might even skip Bercy.
He will never play Bercy if he wins Basel, not two weeks in a row like that after how fragile his body has been. He has not cared too much much about Bercy recently. He would rather focus on WTF. It is seriously very, very, very unlikely that Rafa will not end 2017 #1.
I think Roger has learnt his lesson from Montreal, which he shouldn’t have played; should have just played Cinci and USO. He will skip Bercy and YE #1 will almost certainly go to Rafa now.
If I’m wrong and Roger can run the table in Shanghai, Basel, Paris, and London, at 36, he is superman.
Nadal:”It wasn’t just a precaution on my right knee, but after losing the final it’s not the right moment”.
Its not a good news, but it can’t be that bad. Otherwise he would have pulled out of Shanghai.
This is horrible..seriously horrible..the thing is the tape appeared only in the final..so its something yesterday
Fake knee injury, this just an excuse, when he loses this happened, that happened, will shut up you dirty mouth.
The closed the roof, too much noise, he is not good on hard or on indoors, the court is too fast, santa claus didn’t give me any gifts, his shoes were too tight, uncle toni or moya wasn’t there, he didn’t eat breakfast, his girlfriend made him Angry etc etc all are pure nonsense.
M. Cilic had an injury, G. Dimitrov was not in form and had health problems.
F. Fognini had many problems that were distracting him.
All this player’s would have defeated Rafa in straight sets if they didn’t have their problems.
When Nadull wins, he is healthy. When he loses, he always has problems. The same old excuse.
You are smart.
R. Nadal is a great player but this excuses after he loses is becoming childish.
If they were joking i would understand but every time he loses a match, one silly excuse to the other.
When he truly has an excuse or injury, it is hard to believe it because of childish rafans.
#Theboywhocriedwolf
Fedup,
You sound like a broken record. You mean like the way Fed wasn’t really injured in the Cincy final and looked like crap at the USO?
Turnabout is fair play. if some Fed fans are going to start that nonsense again, then we can say the same thing about Fed!
Oops! I think this is the last time he should really allow himself to play a full schedule. He said earlier this week that this year, his focus has not been on his body but rather on his tennis. He said it is the first time in a while that he had the chance to not think about injuries and solely focus on playing and winning.
He should now be more selective next year. He should take out Barcelona from the clay court season
No VR, I feel he should not play Rome. Banque Sabadell is the sponsor at Barcelona, so Rafa is not going to skip Barcelona.
I heard they’re going to expand the Rome tournament to be something like IW or Miami, ie played over ten days with six rounds and 96 players draw. It will be worse for Rafa should he play there.
I am thinking about Rafa’s schedules, and if it’s me who’s doing the planning, how I will plan and arrange his schedule. I feel Rafa is still good to play and win on the HCs, (yes HCs) if he continues to improve and moves up to the net more often to dictate points there. So, if he still hopes to win at IW/Miami, he should play there next year, as on slower HCs, he has better chances of beating Fed now that Rafa’s game is much better than when he played at IW/Miami early this season. Also, Djoko may not yet get back on track by then. He should skip Acapulco after the AO to rest and prepare for IW/Miami.
Thereafter, plays MC, Barcelona and Madrid before RG, then Queens and Wimbledon; plays Canada/Cincy and USO. If he intends to play the Asian swing, then skips Paris (and no Basel please).
So, he’ll be playing 15 events (and 16 if he qualifies for WTF). After 2018 and/or 2019, if he’s still playing, perhaps he can just concentrate on playing slams plus warm up events, and playing on clay only elsewhere. I think his body can’t take the beatings on the HCs as he advances in age, on clay at least he still could slide or glide around.
Sébastien Grosjean confirmed by the entourage of Nadal that there is a pain due to the accumulation of matches on hard!
Yes, thats what I said. KNEE NEEDS REST for god sake . He will skip Bercy I think. I dont think its a serious injury. Basel is out of question anyway.
It happened 2-3 days back for sure. Remember the second set meltdowns earlier in the week. Damn sure something was going on then.
Skip everything and be back for AO if need be. Who cares about No. 1 if you are not healthy.
I actually think that is a possibility, if injury is bad enough or worsens, and Roger’s best chance to end YE #1. It would even things out a bit, points-wise, since Roger lost the chance to play for 5500 points by skipping the clay season (something like 4680 of which Rafa took).
Rafa about his calendar before London: “About Basel & Paris… obviously I don’t know what’s going to happen”
Will skip both. WTF is not a bad tournament to play. You get a day’s rest b/w RR matches .
yes he will skip both…roger may play both
Rafa (in the ESP presser): “I’m not worried. I know I’ve played many matches recently & I’ve done a great effort”
Trenton Jocz @TrentonJocz 35m35 minutes ago
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Rafa’s presser is an indication. If he got outplayed that much while 100%, he’d be tweaked/defiant. This one he can let go of.
Federer on Sky on what’s helped him beat Nadal 5 straight times, smiles: ‘Not playing him on clay’.
Fed is getting more likable these days. He’s speaking the truth about not playing on clay against Rafa. It’s just like these days, it’s better for Rafa not playing Fed on HCs.
Fed saying he might skip Paris and Basel both or one. He is smart with his scheduling, Rafa not so much. Sigh
And some posters here are contemplating what if Fed plays Basel and Bercy and win both !! Wishful thinking. I think Fed will play Basel though.
where did he say this?
Pretty much no chance he skips Basel. Likely he skips Bercy. And keep in mind Rafa is so confident and healthy this year and is 31 instead of Fed’s insane age of 36. I will say Fed has historically been the tour’s best scheduler by far. Rafa should take a page out of Roger’s book and at least skip Basel, if not Bercy as well, depending on how serious the injury is.
Nadal:”Don’t want to talk about the knee because these things can be misinterpreted,especially in titles. Don’t want to say” #SHRolexMasters
Nadal:”I don’t know about Basel. I need to think about it. I cannot tell you now” #SHRolexMasters
Nadal:”It wasn’t just a precaution on my right knee, but after losing the final it’s not the right moment” #SHRolexMasters
Sanju, what’s your source?
Its his presser statement.
Anyway, here is my take on the final (although I couldn’t watch the last 2-3 games):
1. Congrats to Federer and his fans (Joe, Eugene, Kevin, Big Al and others). The guy served perfectly and implemented his strategy flawlessly. Nobody beats Roger Federer on fast indoor conditions when he is serving like that.
2. Rafa played well after losing serve in the first game. He was nervous and made the mistake of serving too much to Fed’s backhand. He just couldn’t put enough returns back in play and engage in rallies where he was not doing bad at all.
3. I totally disagree that Rafa was ‘defensive’. He was just less offensive than the other guy. Yes, Rafa can play more offensive and move to the net more often; however, these conditions are so fast and they were indoor making it ideal for Fed to implement his strategy.Fed even took Djoko down in Cincy without facing break point in 2012!
4. I don’t understand how one can deduce from THIS match that Nadal would have lost to Fed regardless of how well he played at IW or Miami or AO. Guys, are are going to be this naive? DO you remember WTF 2007, WTF 2011 (when fed won 6-3 6-0 and lost at AO 2012 in 4 sets a month later)? Yes, some patterns of play has changed but today was just proof that Roger is still superior in these conditions when he is playing his best.
5. Roger was asked how he turned the tables in the rivalry and his answer was candid:
I’ve not played him so much on clay – that’s helped me not lose there,’ he smiled after the win. ‘That’s definitely helpful to avoid the entire clay-court season.
He THEN mentions the racquet factor:
Other than that I think with the bigger racquet head size it allows me to come through the ball ‘easier, I’m not having to slice the ball so much as I ever have against him. ‘It also helps me on the serve to be honest. My serve has been very consistent ever since changing the racquet and getting used to it. ‘And then just playing from the baseline, trying to be offensive, trying to dictate play as much as possible and then obviously Shanghai is playing fast so using that to my advantage.
He then concludes:
‘But also maybe my head is screwed on a better way just because I haven’t lost so much of those clay-court matches like I have in the past.’
7. He KNOWS how the dynamic of these rivalries work. Fed always knew he was superior in these conditions but the momentum Rafa used to build against him on clay used to help Rafa and now that momentum is not there. Rafa is not getting confidence by winning matches against him so it is hard to play your best in tense moments on your less preferred surfaces.
Just to add to that, I saw some stats:
Rafa finished with 12 winners to 20 UE? Wow, this is a bad finish. He had much better stats in set 1 :O
VR..its very clear..he was just not into the match coz the knee..the minute there was pressure on right knee..errors were flowing from racquet..I am not bothered now about the loss knowing he himself is not bothered as he knew he was compromised..I am only hopeful his knee recuperates..
Sanju, I just hope the knee is not a big problem. I agree the knee would have compromised his play and drawn more errors. However, I still think Fed would have the upper hand in these quick, indoor conditions. Rafa could surely have made it closer though.
My gut feel is Rafa’s knee is overworked. Just look carefully , this is his right knee. Even when receiving serves, he puts a hand there on his knee, just to feel comfortable.
Look at his celebrations against Dimi and Cilic. Those were muted. He knew he and knee have overworked. He will take rest.
I MENTIONED his muted celebrations in his last two matches ! I just thought he was feeling fatigued. But yeah, I think you are right. He has overworked the knee and it is the right knee.
He could have done well from the baseline but his ROS wouldn’t have gotten much help. Not sure how much of a mental hurdle it will be, but I think Rafa can still beat fed on the slow-medium outdoor hard courts. On clay, of course Rafa will beat him every single time if he can play like he did this year.
VR, I happen not to agree. I think if Rafa could serve and return well the way he did in his previous matches, coupled with his confidence in his game, he may not lose to Fed. Fed served this well because Rafa wasn’t up to par in his ROS today. Rafa was also not as quick in his footwork today. I would think the match may go the distance and Rafa has good chances of winning.
How come Fed couldn’t do that yesterday against Delpo, and had to go three sets, and Delpo wasn’t even that great in his returns! Delpo made Fed run quite a bit; a Rafa playing at a better level would do the same.
Big difference between Delpo’s serve in 1st set (and rest of his baseline play, frankly) and Rafa’s serve. If Juan Martin had kept that level he had in the 1st set he would have been in the final. He just couldn’t maintain it, and Roger upped his game.
Rafa NadalVerified account @RafaelNadal 4m4 minutes ago
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Great tour in China, with the title in Beijing and the final in Shanghai! This isn’t over, let’s keep going!
Federer played an excellent match to win the title. Nadal fans just continue to give excuses about his knee problems. Federer has found a solution to beat Nadal on hard court. Period.
I think so. Fed’s backhand is not a liability any more. . That’s a big change.
the backhand was not the biggest factor, once again.
Maybe not the biggest, VR, but it’s definitely a factor. Roger hit several BH winners, both DTL and CC, and it’s just not the liability against Rafa that it was for so many years. It factors into that confidence boost that you mentioned above, even if it’s not as important as the serve.
That is the biggest imo. His backhand isn’t a weakness anymore therefore Rafa doesn’t have anything to pick on therefore advantage Fed.
Rafa has to be careful and not play at all if he is not 100%. Do hell with the ranking and come back for AO.
This is story is nice.
http://www.storyarts.org/library/aesops/stories/boy.html
I am gutted…………..not so much that Rafa lost but that he lost to Fed again.
But guess what? Rafa will figure this out, just like he figured out the Djokovic conundrum.
Stay healthy and grab YE#1 Rafa!
It also makes me sad that Rafa is losing so much to Fed and the next chance he might get will again be on a surface that suits Fed way more (WTF).He will never get to play Fed again on clay it looks like so it will be tough for Rafa to be confident in their next matches. He can still do it on the slow-medium pace hard courts though.
Well, at least now we know the real reason Fed is skipping the clay season. Smart Fed. Unfortunately, the way the Tour is structured around hard courts, Fed can get away with it.
Interestingly, Fed’s confession on his scheduling decisions indicates that the H2H stat is very important to him.
Rafa must not be drawn into Fed’s mind games. Rafa must not structure his schedule around Fed like Fed is structuring his around Rafa. He must walk his own path. He will definitely lose more than he wins against Fed henceforth because Fed will only play Rafa where the surface suits him: low bouncing hard courts, lighting fast and even better if they are indoors.
Rafa must keep plugging away in pursuit of his goals, which I hope are the following:
– adding to his Slam count;
– staying healthy; and
– staying #1
The rest will come out in the wash!
Vamos Rafa!
Um I’m pretty sure Fed didn’t just skip the clay season to avoid Nadal. Yes he would’ve been the underdog against Nadal in clay and there’s a good chance he wouldn’t have this 5 straight wins against Nadal. But the main reason is that Federer’s historically worst part of the season is clay. And his best is grass. He wanted Wimby. He got it. He might not have if he played the clay season for a pretty obvious reason. He’s 36 years old and clay is the most physically demanding surface of them all. Roger said that to be humble he is a classy guy like Rafa. What he said also probably has a lot of truth to it since Rafa is the greatest clay courter.
Roger said the truth. Had he played clay he would not have had the 4 straight wins this year is a fact. I dont think he deliberately did it, he wanted to win Wimby. He just answered the question the reporter asked him. He would have played clay had he not won AO/IW/Miami and he said that himself.
Had he taken risky of playing clay, he sure would not have won Wimby. He is smart and Rafa needs to leran from him to schedule. Roger said in as many words he is surprised Rafa played Beijing after he won USO.
However Benny he also said on Skysports that his mind is not screwed up now after losing to Rafa on clay and that gives him the momentum and robs Rafa of the momentum. Ofcourse the racquet head size and consistency on serve and BH due to it is a HUGE factor. I am very interested to see when and how Rafa solves this puzzle on HC vs Roger.
Yes!! Exactly what you said Sanju. And I totally agree he’s got the mental edge largely due to the clay court season and even said it himself. But also like you said, he didn’t just deliberately skip a whole portion of the season for H2H reasons. He would’ve had a significantly lesser chance at Wimbledon title.
Largely due to skipping the clay court season *
“H2H stat is very important to him.” Then why would he not just skip every clay tournament since several years ago?! RITB why, even after Fed demolishes Rafa (and yes that’s what that was), you have to talk shit about Fed and act like he’s afraid of Nadal? He’s not scheduling his whole year around Rafa he cares about winning big titles and guess what? He’s won ONE French open and SEVENTEEN other slams. Why would he play the slam/part of the season that is most physically demanding and his least historically successful? Yeah his lack of past success has a lot to do with Rafa but he isn’t doing it for head to head purposes. He and Nadal don’t actually take the time to analyze their records against players and actually care because they have millions of dollars and are good friends who respect each other as well. By the way Fed hasn’t just played him on low bouncing hard courts this year. He absolutely whooped him in Indian Wells and Miami. And he would on grass right now too. So basically if Nadal skips Basel, am I allowed to say Rafa skipped so he wouldn’t lose his sixth straight match to Fed? Because that’s exactly what would happen. Just stop talking shit about Fed please. You overanalyzed his comment so you could use it against him, proclaiming he is using mind games and that he’s skipping the clay season solely for H2H purposes. Just show some respect to Roger if it won’t just kill you to do so.
You don’t need to waste your time explaining why a 36 year old approaching retirement, who by the laws of science needs to skip tournaments in order to have success, would skip the part of the season that is the most physically demanding and is also his worst surface. If Fed was “afraid” of continuously losing to Rafa on clay, then why did continuously battle through all those semifinals of clay tournaments knowing he was probably going to lose to Rafa in the final? Everyone and their grandmother knows that Fed couldn’t get a sniff at Rafa on clay, so why would he need to try and hide it? This just makes no sense to me. If Rafa skips the grass swing when he’s 36, no one would claim that he was just “afraid” of losing to people on grass… They would think, “Rafa is 36 and can’t play everything, so of course he’s going to skip his least effective surface!” 15 of the Fedal matches were played during the 2-month clay court swing- it’s only fair that they play more matches from post-US Open period where Fed has the advantage… Can’t have your cake and eat it, too!
Yes thank you for that Kevin. In fact if I can recall I’m pretty sure some Rafans on here were discussing shortly after Wimbledon on how it might be in Rafa’s best interest to skip the grass season as he gets older. And that would be totally understandable and nobody would or should assume that Rafa would do that for H2H purposes with rivals. And I’m also not saying Rafa didn’t have to with Roger’s decision to skip clay. Rafa is the reason Roger doesn’t win the French Open more or more clay tournaments in general so in a sense he was avoiding Rafa because he was avoiding clay (cuz clay basically IS Rafa LOL). But he’s 36 and it’s his worst surface by far like we’ve already established. Anyways thanks for that Kev. 👍🏼🙂
No problem, Benny. 🙂 That’s what I’m here for, to do what I can to keep the bias at acceptable levels! 🙂
Again Kevin. You are one of those people who’s got the wisdom of words if I’m allowed to say so. And not only in ‘defending’ Fed, I often agree with your input which favours Nadal or any other player. I wished Fedal fans were less biased (not completely, that would be impossible).
Well done Benny. Kevin still got it lol..
Yes RITB is talking nonsense,
Stanley you are correct 😅
Very profound @Stanley. Not.
@Benny G, I was ready to take your comments seriously until you sought @Stanley’s validation.
Out.
Lololol I was just saying he was correct. “Sought his validation?” The fuck r u talking about 😂😂😂
@Benny G, suggest you watch Fed’s Sky interview. He said he did not play the clay season because he did not want to lose to Rafa. Now, this may not jive with your narrative of Fed, but the reality is what Fed himself says. I prefer reality to myth.
As you said, Fed demolished Rafa, and I agree with that take. So why are you upset? You should be celebrating, no? Are you upset because I do not share your opinion on why Fed skipped the clay season? Please………
Okay let me lay out my opinion to you: Fed skipped the clay season because he did not want to dampen his confidence by getting walloped by Rafa. Fed himself said so. So my opinion coincides with Fed’s reason, making it fact.
I have no respect for someone who chickens out of a shellacking. Fed should play the clay season and take his beating like a man. That, is my opinion.
Yes but Roger said in an interview after today’s match that he will never overcome the H2H when asked about it. My main problem isn’t even about avoiding Rafa it’s that you said he cares about “H2H stats” and that he plays mind games with Nadal lol. That I completely disagree with. And I highly doubt that avoiding Rafa was his sole reason to skip the clay season. He said in plenty other interviews that he needed to prepare for Wimbledon as much as he could and playing the physically demanding clay court season would tire him out and not allow him to prepare as much for the grass swing. He’s 36 it’s justifiable that he doesn’t want to go play on his worst surface. Rafa should do the same on grass as he approaches Roger’s age. Just give Fed a break is all I’m asking. I didn’t rip Nadal for things he’s said that I don’t agree with. For example, I found it classless when he kept repeating and made it very clear in Rogers Cup presser that he played like shit against Shapovalov who had hit 49 winners and that it was his worst loss of the year because of Shapovalov’s ranking. And I watched that match. Rafa did not play well by his lofty standards. But Shapovalov earned that thing and wasn’t given much credit by Rafa after.
I do give Fed credit when he deserves it but I will not be bullied into giving him credit when it is not deserved. And please do not give me that, “I do not criticize Rafa therefore you should do likewise for Fed”. BS! Criticize Rafa all you want, if it is merited you will not get any come back from me. If it is not, well……..
My point is this: Fed took a calculated decision to skip the clay season because he did not want to dampen his momentum by getting beaten by Rafa. This is not me saying this, it’s Fed himself. Was this smart on Fed’s part? Of course it was, the results show this. It also is cowardly in my book, and un-becoming of someone who wants to be seen as the greatest player of all time.
Or maybe he just wants to be known as the GOATNIC (Greatest Of All Time Not Including Clay)?
“Then why would he not skip every clay tournament……………”
Because he is slow, who knows? Maybe it just dawned on him only last year that maybe he cannot beat Rafa on clay. Some people are slow like that………
This is what I mean. You’re just an asshole for saying that. I can’t even imagine saying something so rude like that about Nadal and only reason I brought up the Shapovalov thing was to show u something small I could’ve bitched or roasted Rafa about like u do to Fed and cuz u basically annoyed me so much with the disrespect you give Fed in pretty much anything you write about him. And I am obviously very happy about Fed’s win. Just don’t get why you have to put a damper on it just cuz ur salty that your guy has gone 0 for 4 in matches this year with his rival.
@Benny G, calm down. You are taking this fan thing way too seriously. Ad hominem attacks blunt whatever point you are trying to make and make it difficult to engage.
Happy to engage when you have calmed down.
RITB, please provide a quote where Federer says that he skipped the clay season to avoid being beaten by Rafa.
“I am the GOAT and I don’t care about clay because it is too difficult”
Oh, okay then……
Miss me on that parade…….
RITB, i used to respect your passion for tennis & R. Nadal and i have expressed that admiration so many times.
You are being silly with some of your comments and that’s not cool.
If u were joking, i will understand but this… this is not good, you are going too low.
Please stop it ok, your guy lost, it’s painful and i understand but don’t turn that disappointment in the wrong direction.
R. Nadal will bounce back and i know he will win trophies next year.
@Stanley, I don’t care for your respect, please keep it.
Thanks.
You called Fed slow. That’s some bull my friend. That’s my central point here. But yeah we can just agree to disagree. I just think you are unnecessarily disrespectful to Fed too frequently and that annoys me.
@Joe Smith, please review all of Fed’s comments pertaining to the 2017 clay season. You will find your answer. It is not my job to provide you with any quotes or convince you of anything. Do your own research. I have based my opinion on what Fed himself has said, stuff I have researched and read.
Sorry, RITB, I am sure Fed never said anything like that, and I’m challenging you to provide a link, or else admit that you were exaggerating.
Fed skipped the season to preserve his body for Wimby, not because he was afraid of losing to Rafa. That is consistent, of course, with recognizing that his chances of winning RG were a lot lower than winning wimby.
That is the difference between you and me. I am a Rafan but I do not take my fandom that personally that I would hurl gratuitous insults at people when they disrespect Rafa. But you, “my friend” are comfortable insulting me gratuitously because, in your opinion, I insulted poor snowflake Fed!
If I said something unnecessarily disrespectful about Fed like that he is “slow like that” or is a “snowflake” I would get hated on or roasted by many and deservedly so.
@Joe Smith, please can you provide a link for your assertion? Thanks.
Unnecessarily disrespectful to Rafa*
I have seen worse hurled at Rafa but it has never occurred to me to “defend” him by gratuitously insulting the “offenders”. But that’s just me…………
@RITB:
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/05/roger-federer-says-he-will-skip-french-open/66053/
See how easy that is? You should try it some time.
Btw, the article explicitly states that Roger did not take Rafa, or any other player in particular, into account; it was a decision to preserve his body, understandable in a man approaching 36.
Well no use in discussing how we approach that I’m kind of stuff. The thing about your initial argument from a while ago is that he says the reason he has won five in a row is because he didn’t face Nadal on clay and that might have helped him mentally with this match he just played but he didn’t actually decide in advance to skip the clay season to gain a mental edge it just happens to be the case that it helped him in respects to his current win streak vs Rafa staying intact. But come on now he skipped because of his age. Like I said he would’ve skipped other times in the past if he actually just wanted to avoid Rafa.
@Joe Smith
And I’m Desdemona! Not. I really must learn to take every press release at its word, not over-analyse……….
Good luck to you and Fed for the rest of the season!
@RITB, no need to thank me if you don’t respect my recognition that you love tennis & Rafa.
Just to be clear, i didn’t say i respect you, i don’t, i never will, i might be joking here.
Your frustration & disappointment is too obvious and you definitely need time to heal so i will let you heal.
Please when u heal don’t 4get that R. Federer is the best and when you belittle or denigrate his victories if you are not joking, it’s not right ok.
Please calm down, all will be fine tomorrow, watch a nice movie, sleep a little, just do something to relax ok.
@Benny G
I am sure we can agree on this: when I read Fed’s statements/actions, I glean a different take from yours.
Hmmmmm………I wonder why?
@Stanley,
Yawn!! Now go play with yourself…………
@RITB,
Very funny but i was being nice.
You are truly sadist and i feel sorry 4 U.
Why can’t you recognize a good advice when you read one?
Take time to heal, stop spewing trash.
Please don’t act this way, you will ruin the little respect i have 4 u when it comes to tennis & Rafito.
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/tennis/a/37484812/roger-federer-cheeky-tactic-to-reverse-rafael-nadal-domination/
@Joe Smith
Semantics aside, it’s pretty much obvious why Fed would skip the whole clay season. I fully understand why some Fedfans would find this uncomfortable because it suggests Fed skipped the clay season to avoid playing Rafa. Again, interpretation matters. You may not see it that way but I certainly do, conclusion drawn from Fed’s own words.
“Clearly avoiding him – not playing him on clay has helped,” said Federer after the Shanghai final. “I’m able to stay on the hard courts or on faster courts against him, I have been playing very well when I have faced off against him.”
Once again, this does not mean he chose to skip the clay season because of Nadal. It is his assessment of why he currently has the mental edge / win streak. And the obvious reason you speak of him skipping the clay season is that he is 36 and had to schedule for the best shot at the Wimbledon title. Again, he would’ve skipped the entirety of last year’s clay season too if he was just wanting to avoid Rafa. Notice he has played less and less on clay as the years have gone by. He’s getting older and scheduling wisely to give himself less exertion on a physically toiling surface that he has had the least historical success on. I don’t know why you assume that because he said his current mental edge is helped by his lack of playing the clay season that it means he skipped the clay season because of Rafa. Like I said, he’s assessing what has largely helped keep his win streak intact (skipping the clay season), not stating that he actually skipped that part of the season to keep that streak intact.
I mean, I don’t even know what it takes to be honest,’ he told Sky Sports after the win. ‘I just know the World Tour Finals is a must and probably Paris too and probably Basel so that all depends on how Rafa plays. ‘It’s a wild thought, that’s why I’m not even thinking about it to be quite honest at this point. Can Federer overthrow Nadal at the top of the rankings? (Picture: Reuters) ‘I was thinking about it going into the Montreal finals and hopefully Cincinnati and the US Open but I mean it just all didn’t work out the way I was hoping – so no problem there. ‘I’ll just try to be healthy now, go back to the drawing board when I go back to Switzerland tomorrow with my team and we’ll decide what I’m going to play – Basel, Paris – one of those tournaments or both or none – before I go to London because that’s my priority right now. ‘I want to really win the World Tour Finals and then we’ll take it from there next week.
Why would Fed show his cards just now. He would keep rafa guessing . He wants Rafa to overplay. Rafa would also not reveal anything. He will skip Bsel for sure.
The language has gotten out of control here. There is NO excuse for anyone to use the word “f—k” in any context. Also, calling someone an “asshole” is not only a personal attack and I appropriate and a violation of Ricky’s site rules, but it is not a reasonable response refuting anyone else’s argument!
The one thing I will say about this whole brouhaha about Fed skipping the clay court season and RG, is that some of his fans ran off at the mouth to the effect that he was doing Rafa a favor since he had a good chance of beating him should he have decided to play. Yet now we are seeing the same Fed fans saying that there was no way he was going to beat Rafa on clay and it would have meant risking his body and chances at winning Wimbledon.
Guess what! You can’t have it both ways. I remember the arguments here as Fed fans arrogantly talked up his chances of beating Rafa at RG! Yet now the tube has changed and some have taken umbrage at the suggestion that Fed skipped the clay season to avoid losing to Rafa.
I am inclined to believe that Fed’s primarily goal was to rest his body and have the best chance to win Wimbledon. But his recent comments can be open to interpretation. Maybe the simple truth is that avoiding any losses to Rafa on clay was a side benefit of not playing the entire clay season.
People are entitled to their opinion and should not have to be attacked with the kind of profane and nasty language that I have read in some posts. Defend Fed without the inappropriate language!
I meant to say that now the TUNE has changed! *
@NNY,
Thank you for standing up for decency.
I am sadenned by the fact I was part of the discussion that elicited this type of unhealthy language, for that I apologies to all site users.
in my experience, people (usually men) use profanity as a tool to intimidate other people into silence, I.e. bullying, which as you point out is against site rules and in any case, does not advance the substance of the topic under discussion, quite the opposite.
Personally, I will continue to engage @Benny G on substance and call him out if and when he uses gratuitous profanity. I know we can disagree agreeably. I will not be intimidated, bullied or silenced.
Sorry guys I’m kinda young I don’t use that as intimidation I just use that generally sorry bout that honestly.
Just to be clear, I am not one of those fans. I did not think Roger was doing Rafa a favor by skipping it or that he would’ve beaten Nadal on clay. It would be dumb to say that even if one thought it (which I didn’t).
What is wrong in expecting Fed may defeat Nadal on clay had they met this year when Rafans can expect Nadal to defeat Fed on indoor HCs. Isn’t that happenned with Novak as well when in 2011 he defeated Nadal in IW/Miami but everyone expected clay is a different ball game but he went on to defeat Nadal on clay as well and that was his first win over Nadal on clay.
When someone is playing well its obvious that their fans will expect him to win everything he plays. Didn’t you expect Nadal to win in Shanghai because he was playing well and he won USO/ Beijing. Don’t go too much in what a player says in their presser, they respect each other a lot and they will always use kind words for each other.
Didn’t Rafa say if you think I’m better than Roger that means you don’t know anything about tennis and if you take literally his words that means all Rafans don’t know anything about tennis.
Wise words 4rm @bestplayer.
You are a smart guy.
Thanks Stanley. I can’t imagine had Fed lost yesterday then what would have been the reactions here.
‘I’m very excited to have had the year that I’ve had – everything that comes from here is a bonus. ‘World No. 1 I think it’s a long shot – I don’t think it’s going to happen but if I play like this, who knows, maybe I’ll get close to it.’
Stanley of course im hopeful, Rafas still number 1, and of course he will bounce back, he is still contesting for titles, and as long as he does that he has chances ….
Honestly, I think it would be in both Fed and Rafa’s best interests to pull the plug on their seasons. I know they won’t, as they are stubborn. Maybe Rafa will if his knee is bad enough. I guess Rafa plays his best when he’s winning matches, but Fed at 36 plays his best when he has had a lot of rest and then can work his way into form throughout a tournament, like he did in Shanghai. Benny was right- Fed really did work his way into form, peaking at the perfect time. He played by far his cleanest match of the tournament in the final. I am concerned for Rafa’s knee… I don’t believe for a second that the knee had anything at all to do with Fed winning today. Maybe it could have been a little more competitive, but outcome would have been the same. Fed is just superior to Rafa on faster courts. I probably should have seen that, but I just thought that Rafa’s confidence and good form would be enough to get him over the line, even on the type of court that he has historically done poorly on in terms of titles won. The one outcome that I said definitely would not happen, happened indeed- a rout for loss of under 8 games… I know it’s frustrating for you great Rafans to have your guy suffering a losing streak to someone he never lost more than 2 matches in a row to. But just keep in mind that it’s only fair for their head to head to include more matches on the courts where Fed dominates. They’ve played what, like 15 matches on clay, where Rafa can rarely be beaten? Let Fed get his for a little while. Rafa certainly had his enough! 🙂 In all seriousness, though, commiserations to the Rafans. Your guy has had an amazing season, though, and is going to end the season #1! You have nothing to be sad about, really. The one thing that we should be a bit concerned about right now is that knee… Rafa’s body is just so fragile- we never know when it could go wrong. He looked totally fine at the end of his semifinal match, so I’m not sure what the deal is with the knee. Hopefully it’s not serious… Hey, Fedal, take the rest of the damn season off if you both want AO 2018!
Kevin, could you break your script into paragraphs? It very hard on the eyes and difficult to read. 😉
Sorry Nadline! I get really into my comments and forget about paragraphs and spacing. 😛
Agree with Nadline!….Sorry Kev!..I love reading your post!..but,if u could change it into paragraphs not only i will love it…but,i’m sure i will drool over it shamelessly from now on!!Hehehe….
The only reason Federer didn’t play the clay season is because he didn’t want to lose to Rafa. He said so himself today on Sky.
No, he said that skipping the clay season was the reason he won 4 straight this season. Big difference.
Right, Kevin. What Roger gave was a likely explanation for why he had been able to beat Rafa 5 straight times (not having played him on clay this year); not a statement of what his intention was prior to the clay court season.
Kevin great post, i dont feel sad though anyway, im delighted with the year Rafas having ….
Rafa is very very bad with his scheduling. He has enrolled for 2 500 tourneys after USO and Laver Cup where he played more than 10 matches in less than a month.
Got get some rest Rafa and reach London early on for preparation. Early preparation is far more important. Fed has been in Shanghai since Thursday, a week before his first match . Its so important for Rafa to focus on WTF now.
The problem with Rafa is that he lacks confidence in his game if he’s not playing and winning matches. I think he plays so much on HCs because he wants to get used to playing his improved game on the HCs. HCs not his fave surface so he needs more match practice and match play.
He’s not like Fed or Djoko, they don’t need that much match play to feel good on the HCs, HCs being their fave surface. Rafa’s counterpuncher mentality works against him in quicker courts, when he prefers to counter attack than goes on first strike attack even though he has the tools to do so.
But he is winning everything now on HC. He beat Delpo, big servers Isner, Anderson and Cilic, Dimitrov twice and other tough players. He won easily as well, mostly playing back to back matches.
So, let me take you back to 2013, IW was Rafa’s first tournament. He played and won straightaway because he was well-rested. He has to follow this strategy now.
He has to be efficent like Fed. Fed won 1000 points from Shanghai, Rafa won 1100 points by playing double the matches. He has to make smart choices. I think he hwas hampered by knee problem plus Fed servered really well and early break helped him a lot.
I will still back Rafa to be more competetive in WTF if he faces Fed there.
Yes, Rafa is not wise in his scheduling. But, Rafa is not Fed on the HCs, if he didn’t play at Beijing and came straight to Shanghai, he might not even reach the final here. He needed match wins to feel confident and confidence is everything to Rafa. Remember he almost lost to Pouille in his first match at Beijing? If not for playing and winning at Beijing, he might be losing to Dimi here in Shanghai.
Rafa had only won B2B week HC events once in his career, ie in 2013 at Montreal/Cincy; compare that to Fed and Djoko, they’re so used to doing that throughout their career.
I think other than having a more sensible schedule, Rafa also has to make some changes to his mindset when playing on HCs, ie reminds himself to dictate more often than to counterpunch even if his opponents may be more offensive players than he is. He could move up to the court, move to the net, serves and returns well, so why not combine all these and plays more attacking than counterpunching tennis? He was playing like that at Beijing, and that’s a joy to watch, but it seems he couldn’t sustain that level in B2B HC events; perhaps after a long season (he played 75 matches already!).
I think against Cilic like players, he tends to counterpunch, when I think he could’ve done better by moving to the net more often – Cilic moved to the net 19 times, winning 12; Rafa only managed 5 times at the net but won 4 of those! I feel his mindset is such that he’s concerned about returning his opponents big serves; whilst players like Fed, they’re not so concern about that as Fed is confident of holding his own serve, and so he’s more relax and patiently waits for his chances, esp in TBs.
Kind of agree here. He needs more matches under his belt on HC. He was struggling in USO in initial rounds but was a different player. Played even better in Beijing and Shanghai.
But still, I think, it would be better off for him to just rest his knee. WTF is one tournament where you can still enter SF even if you lose. So, it gives Rafa the luxuru to just enter there without too many tournaments in last few weeks. I dont think WTF court will suit Fed as much as Shanghai. Its low bounce but not that quick, in facts its relatively slow than IW, Miami, Cincy, Montreal.
I agree, when Rafa is playing well, he doesn’t need to play at Paris Masters or Basel to prepare for WTF. In 2010, he won Tokyo, lost in R3 at Shanghai, played nothing else before WTF and still reached the final at WTF, beating Murray in the SF and then lost to Fed in three sets in the final.
If Rafa skips both Basel and Paris, he will have four weeks rest, and I think that’s good enough for his knee to heal. And yes, the London O2 arena isn’t as fast a surface as Shanghai, so Rafa will have better chances against Fed.
It’s a shame Rafa couldn’t play his best tennis at this Shanghai final, I was expecting a more competitive match, but each time this year, after the AO, its being disappointing, mainly from Rafa.
Most probably Rafa is skipping Basel. I wont be surprised if Fed skips Basel and plays Bercy. Fed is a real msart guy and he can ditch his home tourney for Bercy. He will get 2 weeks rest and a week’s rest before WTF.
Can Fed get away by playing no 500 tourney after USO ?
Fed had said during laver cup that Basel will take priority over Bercy
So, Fed can (priortizing from top to bottom in terms of likelihood)
1. Play Basel and skip Bercy
2. Skip both Basel and Bercy.
3. Play both
Either case suits Rafa. He is going to be year end number 1.
3.
Rafa’s problem was not confidence today. I don’t know if that’s what you’re trying to say but just to be clear, that wasn’t the issue. It was the guy across the net. #MentalBlockIsGone #Better Racquet=BetterBackhand=BetterRoger
Please Benny, read again and tries to follow the conversation!
Ah I see you were saying that’s why he played so much after the US Open. Still my hashtags weren’t wrong 😄
This year Rafa becomes world no. 1 is not as satisfying as in 08,10 and 13 where he beat everyone. This year in every tournament he played where Fed is in, Fed went deeper expect USO. Seeing the prospect of the remaining three tourney, if they both play looks unlikely for Rafa to go deeper. Anyway, let’s see.
USO was the big daddy. 🙂
agree a win over Fed will make YE No 1 seem sweeter..however not undermine if he is YE No 1 without beating Fed too..
Fed was No 1 in 05 06 07 09 with losing record against Rafa all those years…
Sanju- He actually had a winning record over Rafa in ’07. That was arguably Fed’s best season in terms of head to head with Rafa because he beat him on all three surfaces. But this why head to head is very limited in measuring a player’s greatness- you need to be able to beat 4 to 7 guys to win a tournament, not just 1 guy. Fed has done well to beat Raf this year, but Rafa has won more matches against the field and that’s what matters in the end!
Rafael Nadal speaks out on knee problem v Roger Federer as he considers skipping Basel
George BellshawSunday 15 Oct 2017 1:58 pm
Share this article with Facebook Share this article with Twitter Share this article with Google Plus Share this article through email 34 Nadal’s knee was taped (Picture: Getty)
Rafael Nadal was reluctant to discuss the strapping on his knee against Roger Federer during the Shanghai Masters final and admitted he is not sure whether he will play in Basel.
Federer turns up the heat on Nadal for world No. 1 spot with fine Shanghai Masters win The world No. 1 was thumped by the 19-time Grand Slam champion in a 6-4 6-3 defeat, with the Spaniard never truly looking as if he was going to win the match.
There was plenty of focus on the strapping around the 31-year-old’s right knee during the clash and he seemed to be playing at a lower intensity than he had been in previous matches in Shanghai and Beijing the week before.
Nadal has been plagued by injuries in the past, with knee and wrist problems hampering him throughout recent years. Nadal will hope the problem is not serious.
It was Federer’s day in Shanghai. But the 16-time major winner refused to talk extensively about the problem he was suffering against Federer, while admitting he would think long and hard about whether he would participate in Switzerland in a week’s time. ‘I don’t want to talk about that [the strapping on his knee] now, sorry,’ he said in his post-match press conference. ‘After losing final is not the moment. I am not worried, though. ‘I don’t know about Basel. I need to think about it. I cannot tell you now.’ What the exact nature of the injury is remains to be seen, but Nadal was keen to congratulate his opponent on what was a scintillating performance. Nadal may skip Basel (Picture: REUTERS)
Federer is chasing him for top spot. And he also revealed his delight at his performances during his time in China, despite coming up just short in Shanghai. ‘First of all I want to congratulate Roger and your team for a great year,’ he said immediately after the defeat. ‘Today, I think you played a fantastic match – so well done. ‘This year for me has probably been the most successful year for me in China. Winning in Beijing and making the final here in Shanghai – it’s been a great two weeks. ‘I feel very happy for the things I have achieved after everything that’s happened to me to be able to come here and do well – it’s very important for me. ‘Thanks to my team, they’re always there for me and supporting me. There have been some tough moments over the last few years so to be here where we are today is fantastic.’
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/15/rafae…considers-skipping-basel-7001559/?ito=cbshare
anyways rafa..please skip bercy and basel..take good 2.5 weeks rest..see you at WTF
Its beyond me to understand why is Rafa not learning from his mistakes..why does he need to play so much..he has already played 70 matches..he should not play more than 50 in a year now on..why cant someone drill this in his and his teams head..
skip whole february..skip barcelona…skip grass pre wimby..skip beijing..skip basel and bercy…
but he wont learn..even next year he has entered in acapulco
He even entered Rotterdam this year and pulled out in the end. How much he wants to play is beyond me !!
I am getting very frustrated reading about how Rafa never learns! Enough! He skipped Queens, most likely costing him at Wimbledon without any preparation. With the extra week between RG and Wimby and Rafa not playing at Queen’s, he got a few weeks rest. Then he lost in the fourth round at Wimby and that gave him extra time off before the NA summer hard court season.
Rafa got knocked out early in Montreal, losing to Shapo. Then he lost in the quarterfinals at Cincy to Kyrgios. So he came into the USO undercooked. I thought he could play himself into good form and he did.
We need to stop with this nonsense about Rafa not scheduling wisely! Did Fed fans criticize him when his back flared up in Cincy and he came into the USO not looking good? This is the sport! You play and try to schedule to avoid injuries, but it happens!
Why not criticize Rafa for playing in the Laver Cup? That was an exho. Anyone can sit back and scold Rafa or say – I told you so – but the truth is that there is no way to know when the body can break down.
It’s matches like the one with Dimi where Rafa should have won in straight sets but lost his focus in the tb and then had to play another set. That is what takes a toll on him.
Now Rafa wil have to take a break. I expect him to pull out of Basel. I hope he addresses the knee and gets some rest. I also hope it’s not a serious flare up. But this is the risk Rafa will have to deal with as long as he is playing.
Fed playing Montreal was an atrocius decision , a decision that cost FED USO. Its upto Fed fans to accept it or not.
Yes, so let’s not pretend that Fed doesn’t make mistakes with his scheduling. He should have focused on Cincy. But that’s the way it goes. Maybe he wanted to try and win Montreal for the first time.
No one is perfect. As players get older there are going to be problems. Nobody can predict when the body gives out.
True fan and wise words, i love u.
Rafa will definitely bounce back, we win some, we lose some that’s sports.
I think Lucky made a good point about Rafa needing match play to get going. He almost got knocked out of Beijing in his first match with Pouille.
I agree with her that he may not have gone deep in Shanghai without playing Beijing. Some are assuming that it was playing back-to-back hard court tournaments in the Asian swing that caused his knee to flare up. Does anyone remember the video footage of Rafa practicing before the USO? He set ed to come up lame with the knee at one point. I think it was vamosrafa who posted it and then found a longer video showing that Rafa was okay.
Maybe that was a warning sign with the knee. We don’t know why it flared up now. But if we are going to criticize Rafa for scheduling, then why not mention the Laver Cup?
Anyone can say things after the fact. But there are risks when you play in a sport. Rafa has a history of knee problems. It can happen at any time. The only way to avoid it is for him to stop playing altogether. I don’t want that. Not yet.
But I think Rafa deserves credit for trying to schedule as well as he can. The important thing is for him to get rest and take care of the knee.
Carlos Moya addressed the Laver cup. He said it was moral obligation towards Fed who had personally asked him and he could not back out.
Yes, moral obligation and truck load of appearance money . Heard it was more than a couple of million dollars.
NNY, Rafa was playing very well at Beijing, after surviving the Pouille match. Beijing is not a slow hard court, it’s also a quick one and Rafa was simply amazing there. I do feel playing B2B HC events after the year that he has winning the USO again, may be too much for his body and his knee as usual is the first to get affected.
If after a few weeks rest and he’s back to normal again, he may be able to produce that kind of tennis of Beijing, when playing at WTF. Seriously, Rafa was awesomely good at Beijing, I almost forget that he had such a tough draw at Beijing and he beat all of them! He’s hitting with so much depth there at Beijing, and most importantly, he was aggressive and not counter punching.
I was ‘angry’ with Rafa for the slip up against Dimi, not once, but twice – at Beijing and Shanghai. Against Cilic too, when he was serving for the match but lost serve and had to fight hard not to go into a third set. I don’t know at that time was his knee giving him problems already, but he had wasted precious energy having such lapses.
Rafa has played the most matches among the players this season, so conserving energy is all the more important for him, when he’s prone to injuries all his career. I think playing a more aggressive or offensive style is the way forward for him, especially when playing on the HCs (and grass). He should play more like at Beijing this year, and come to the net more often.
@NNY
Playing Laver Cup did not help either. It was a problem as well but LC is only a two set match and its still an exho.
I still think his knees are not that bad but he is feeling it. rafa should keep Fed guessing about the schedule and withraw from Basel and Bercy one at a time so that last minute suspense is maintained.
Roger maintained suspense while withrawing from RG and Murray did the same in USO.
Fed withdrew from RG a good 2 weeks before the tournament. I remember it was immediately post Madrid.
Yes, but that was still pretty late. When Rafa won in Madrid, he withrew. He wanted Rafa to be worried about his place in top 4 and his RG draw.
But, after Madrid, he knew Rafa would end up in top 4 even if he played. So, at that moment, he announced.
Rafa should do the same.
Lucky, Rafa doesn’t typically play an ultra aggressive style like Fed. It’s tough to completely change up the style of play that has won you sixteen slams. He just won the US Open playing Rafa Nadal tennis. I don’t think he should or wants to play super super aggressive, particularly against guys like Cilic who make it tough to do so anyways. I mean you don’t expect Rafa to have smooth sailing each match he plays do you? You shouldn’t be annoyed or “angry” with Rafa for having long matches with Dimitrov and Cilic. I’m certainly not annoyed at Roger for having long matches at the US Open early on even if that probably hurt him in the long run there. He just struggled but got the job done and that’s all you should want from your fav player. A win is a win no matter how it gets done.
Benny, I’m not talking about Rafa playing super aggressive tennis. Watch his Beijing matches, he’s playing suberb tennis there with a good mix of defense/Offence, more offense than defense and that’s how he beat Dimi, Isner and Kygrios there. He’s more willing to move to the net there but I’ve not seen him done that often at Shanghai.
Beijing was also a quick court, I doubt it’s much slower than Shanghai, but having played B2B weeks on HCs, and after a busy schedule playing USO and Laver Cup, his level wasn’t as great at Shanghai (his first two opponents didn’t offer much resistances to him) and had to fight hard to beat Dimi and Cilic. He wasn’t as aggressive here compared to at Beijing imo.
There is a lot more criticism of Nadal scheduling after he has lost to Fed. It’s just stupid excuses. I agree Rafa scheduling isn’t even that bad or anything. And yes Roger shouldn’t have played Montreal. That was a dumbass decision.
This comment is in response to NNY @ 4:00 pm by the way. The comment is pretty far up there lol
Damn I didn’t watch the match live but from the looks of the stats and highlights, Roger was on fire!! Now go win Basel and skip Bercy to recover for the WTF you beast😄 Also I’m hoping Rafa’s knee ends up alright. He should probably skip Basel at least
Really happy for you, Benny!
Roger Federer is Amazing, more than Incredible, he has won 94 titles, 19 are majors.
Roger is the G.O.A.T.
http://www.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/11082507/roger-federer-wants-to-be-known-as-tennis-greatest-player-believes-greg-rusedski
Dont go exactly by what Rusedski says. Rusedski claimed Pete Sampras was step slower in 2002 USO and rest is history.
The only sad thing about US Open as a major is that a shit player like Rusedski made it to the finals once.
Yeah, if I were Fed I would tell Rusedski to keep my name out his mouth haha! After that 2002 salty US Open comment, he forever looks like a whiny bitch. Who, after losing a match at a major, immediately talks shit about the game of the guy who just beat you?? Someone should have responded to him, “Man, you must really suck then if you can’t beat a guy who is that slow!” Pathetic. Arguably the saltiest moment is all sports history. Now that he is older and, presumably, a bit wiser, I wonder if Greg would say he regrets that comment and that it made him look like the biggest sore loser. If not, I can’t believe tennis media networks have that sore loser bum as a commentator…
I am feeling very bad for Rafa..not coz he lost but coz he got injured too (:- I thought the knees were behind him as not heard of it since past 3 years
We will get to know the state of his knees once he does a full examination. Most probably its the tendinitis inflammation. If need be, he can skip WTF and rest for complete 7 weeks.
Knees can’t be that bad. If they were so bad in Beijing, Rafa would have withdrawn from Shanghai.
Nadal had smacked the racquet on his right knee yesterday twice in match against Cilic when he dropped his serve. Hope its not inflammed due to that?
I have an important question..If the bigger racquet has helped make his serve consistent, hit over his BH etc and change the dynamic vs Rafa..why has it not helped much vs Nole. For all of 14, 15, 16 that Roger played with bigger racquet he lost to Nole in 4 slam matches and other tournaments too..
Djoko simply could change directions so easily from both wings; he’s less predictable than Rafa hence he’s in better position to beat Fed esp on medium-fast surface. They met once at Shanghai after 2011, in 2014 and Fed won that one, on quick surface.
The Nole issue was largely mental. In 2014 and 2015, Fed beat Novak countless times in best-of-three sets, almost every single time in straight sets. He had no problem winning two sets in a row against Novak when it wasn’t a big important match at a major, but as soon as it was a big major final, he couldn’t win two sets period, let alone two in a row. It was painfully obvious how mental it was. 6 times in two seasons, in Dubai, Monte Carlo, Shanghai, Cincinnati, and WTF, Fed beat Novak, only losing 1 set in those matches. That is six times he came out firing, dictating, playing like how he has played against Rafa lately. But when it was a major, he completely froze up, especially in the big moments. If he could have won two sets in a row at one of those major matches against Novak, like he did many times between those majors, he could have won one. If he played with the confidence and aggression he did in the best of three matches when he played Novak at the majors, and got two sets in a row, I can’t imagine Nole coming back to win in a major final from 2 sets to live down. But that confident aggressive Fed never showed up to those major matches. Look at Wimby 2015- Fed was arguably playing the best tennis of his career leading into the final. He disposed of Murray in the semis like he was just Berdych. That Fed didn’t even remotely show up for the final. It was kinda sad, actually. Where was the Fed who blew Novak off the court in all those best of five matches in 2014-2015? US Open 2015 final he played better, but he choked badly on the big points because he was thinking too much about how badly he wanted another major. He only converted on like 2 or 3 break points out of like 25! That match was on his racquet, but he had this horrible mental block against Nole at the majors. I’m actually not convinced that he wouldn’t still have that Novak-block at the majors. I’d like to think maybe it would be better since he’s gotten a couple majors under his belt again, but who knows? I really think it helped Fed a lot at the AO this year that he was considered the underdog in that final. In those finals against Novak, a lot of people were picking Fed because he had played so well leading up to them. He had just destroyed Novak in the Cinci final in 2015 right before the Open, and he was playing vintage Federer tennis leading up to the final, so he felt immense pressure in that final and it showed. I really think that the difference between Fed then and now is that he just started being even more aggressive in the bigger moments, and started playing more freely. But also, Novak in 2015 was one of the most dominant periods ever for a player, and he was just really hard to beat in big matches.
Kevin, note that Fed beat Djoko in BO3 on quick HCs; he hadn’t beaten Djoko at IW/Miami and also AO. He beat Djoko at WTF in 2015 at RR stage but come the final, Djoko beat him.
I would say big racket or not, Djoko has the upperhand on slower HCs, Fed the upperhand on quicker HCs.
Fair enough. But I feel like Wimby and US Open 2015 were quick enough where Fed could have played at the level he played at against Novak in best of 3 matches…
The six months rest made a huge difference last year. Beating Rafa at AO overcame a huge mental hurdle. Roger is in better shape to beat Nole now, and he was very close before (should have won in ’15 at both Wimby and USO, but choked). Hopefully we’ll get to see next year.
Fed presser, pretty much sums it up
‘I thought I might struggle maybe a little bit early on because it was a late finish last night’.
Turnaround was fast. Woke up, went straight into the car. Came over early to make sure I get, you know, the practice underway and enough time to get ready for the match. I had no nerves really before the match, which was nice, you know.
Sometimes you visualize points and points and plays. I didn’t have that. I was, I think, pretty clear about how I wanted to play the match. And then I came off, started off very well. Felt relaxed from then on. I always know that Rafa can come back at any moment if he connects well, picks the right sides, and does the right things.
I think that settled my nerves, because I was returning well from the first match here I played against Schwartzman. The serve only got better. I guess I saved best for last. I played some good matches now against Del Potro, Set 2 and 3, and also now these two sets.
In a way, not surprising, because I did feel good all week, and it does pay off to arrive early to an event. You can’t do it all the time, but, you know, I was here since Thursday late night, and that’s five, six days to prepare for a Wednesday match.
So I was ready. It’s definitely been the best I felt since Wimbledon. Montreal was tough to play. It was fast conditions. Anything after the Montreal was never the same with my back issues I had. US Open was all a struggle, really.
Laver Cup was good. I played some really good tennis there, but this was different because I was able to back up good performances, five in a row, so it reminded me a little bit of Wimbledon maybe to some extent.’ Federer also considered the week Just After Laver Cup a very important one. ‘I went straight into training again on the next day, on Monday.
When I thought about it, I thought, oh, I can’t believe I’m doing it. I called my fitness coach up, and he goes, So are you ready for tomorrow afternoon? I’m like, Oh, not really, but okay, I’ll do it, because that’s what we planned to do regardless of what happens at the Laver Cup.
I had a great week from Monday to Friday. I worked extremely hard and then started to take my time. Everything mellowed out, and I came here super early, and coming here early paid off, so I’m very happy and I feel really good right now.’ Rafa seemed to be limping when he came earlier.
I wonder if you noticed anything except the tape he had on the right knee during the match? ‘That’s all I noticed. I didn’t see any problems with him in defense, to be honest. You know, when the body goes cold after the game, it’s normal to, you know, feel it, you know.
I know how it is. Sometimes when you are in a car for a long time where you sit for too long or stand for too long, whatever it is for too long, it’s not good for our bodies. But in the match itself I thought he looked good.
He looked fast. I didn’t see any problems, to be quite honest. I was surprised to see a tape, but I didn’t see any problems.’ You have managed to beat Rafa five times in a row for the first time in your career.
What’s changed for you in the matchup? ‘I think I’m maybe serving consistently better. I get easier power ever since I switched to the bigger racquet, the RF97. I feel I’m connecting better on the backhand and I’m serving good, and that consistently.
Before I had to slice more just because the racquet was good for the slice, and it was good for the coming over, but I would always shank too many balls, you know. So I think it was hard for me to consistently just keep on attacking with the backhand.
Today it seems almost not a problem anymore to do it. Plus I have done it in many other matches other than Rafa, you know. I return usually coming over and sometimes using the slice; whereas before it always a slice normally and sometimes coming over.
So because I have gotten used to returning that way, I think it’s also easier to play Rafa these days, and I just think I’m not so scarred like maybe I have been in the past, not that I was horribly scarred in any way, but I did lose against him sometimes, a lot of the times especially on the clay courts.
I do believe I still lost that Wimbledon finals in ’08 because of the French Open beatdown he gave me. It just affected my first two sets when I played him at Wimbledon. Down 6-4, 6-4, and okay, I got lucky to win the third, but maybe if I don’t lose both first sets it might be a different match.
But, yeah, I think I have also played him well. Clearly avoiding him — not playing him on clay has helped. So I’m able to stay on the hard courts or on faster courts against him, but I have been playing very well when I have faced off against him.
But the Australian Open also I had to get a little lucky, to be quite honest, because it was on the edge there for a while.’ You played great tennis this season. So the schedule of next season, are you still going to quit all the clay season and include the French Open? ‘I don’t know yet.
Hasn’t been decided. I know I’m playing the Hopman Cup and the Australian Open. I know that.’ Now Nadal leads head to head 23-15. Is it an ambition to overcome him? ‘It’s not gonna happen. We don’t have enough years left on the tour, and we’re ranked too good that we play each other only in finals at the moment.
It looks like that’s going to stay like this for a few months more. So can’t win them all against Rafa, to be honest. He’s too good of a player. Whatever happened in the past has happened. I’m just happy I’m on the run that I am right now.
I don’t know what it takes for year-end No. 1 for both of us. It seems for me that he seems extremely close to clinching it. Like I said, I will I figure out my schedule, regardless of No. 1 or not, when I come home to Switzerland and figure that part out.
No, it’s been a terrific season and didn’t overplay. Still have energy left. Like I said before the event, I’m happy it paid off again. Usually when I’m well prepared and I’m ready to go physically and mentally, good things do happen.
I think myself also in the past or maybe other players in particular always think having to play enough is super, super important, but with me I have come to realize that if I’m ready, I’m ready.’ ‘London is my priority now and I really want to win the World Tour Finals’, added Federer, who plans to play Basel next. ‘I am very excited to have had the year that I have had and everything that comes from here is a bonus.
Most years Rafa has tailed off sharply post USO. So to keep on winning right up until today has been a bonus for him and for his fans.
Nothing but admiration for Fed who was on fire.
Thanks ed. And of course complete admiration for the godly season your boy Rafa has had. What an incredible year for tennis 😄
Will catch up on the discussions later. Just came here to add that I saw the highlights and Rafa played poorly 2-2 onward in set 2. That was the part I had missed. Don’t know why he took his foot off the pedal. He was doing a good job of holding his serve in set 1 after that shaky opening game. So yes, he got defensive and was just counterpunching 2-2 onward.
Rafa was quite predictable in his play, going CC most of the time. I watched the final again; Rafa wasn’t playing badly but Fed simple knew where Rafa’s shots were heading and he was there in time for them.
IMO, Rafa didn’t hit his FHDTL shots when the chances were there for him to pull the trigger. Rafa mishits or over hits his shots more than usual because Fed played so quickly and rushed him. Rafa losing his first service game was crucial, putting him immediately at a disadvantage when Fed was serving so well the whole match.
The point when Rafa moved to the net (was at BP) but hit the ball right back at Fed at his BH corner, was a dumb one by Rafa, as Fed immediately hit a BHDTL for a winner and thus broke Rafa’s serve in the very first game. Rafa’s usual habit was to hit his shot CC, even when his opponent was waiting there expecting it, that’s also what happened during the first set of his match vs Delpo at USO.
I don’t think his knee affected his play, perhaps only when serving but not when he’s running. He was outplayed by Fed because he was too predictable and Fed had obviously studied how Rafa played and hence was ready for Rafa’s shot placement most of the time. Two breaks of serve by Fed, one in each set, was enough to send Rafa packing.
Luckystar, NOW your assessment is a lot closer to mine!
Good news is that next year Djokov and Murray will be back. So more players to take out Fed before he meets Rafa:-)
Yeah, Federer simply took Nadals time away on a very fast court.
I think Rafa was impaired today! He obviously was not moving well, was late on his shots and Fed took advantage of it! I felt Rafa was not even fighting, probably saving his knees as Fed was just too good today! Irrelevant of the fast court Rafa did have a chance against Fed. Fed did not play well at this tourney but had huge help from Rafa to allow him playing freely abd
execute his brilliance!
I am not sad about the loss today! The better player won fair and square! I am only worried about Rafa aggravating injury agin..hooe he is ok!
Vamos Rafa!
Nats, I think Rafa’s knee injury isn’t serious, a few weeks rest should be good enough for him to recover.
I feel Fed was playing well in the final, esp after Rafa threw him a gift during that first service game BP. From then on it’s hard for Rafa to contain Fed, as Fed was playing ahead all the time and Rafa was playing catch up. Rafa looked slower when running because Fed was rushing him, IMO.
I think Rafa was too predictable when playing Fed, going CC most of the time and rarely hit his DTL shots to change the dynamic of the rallies. You got to keep Fed guessing to have a chance on this quick court.
I even think that had Rafa played like he did at Beijing, ie he’s more willing to step inside the court and changed direction of his shots more readily, he would have a better chance of beating Fed here. I did see a better Rafa at Beijing, playing superbly against a tough draw there – Pouille, Khachanov, Isner, Dimi and Kygrios and came out winning in flying colors.
Rafa was just a little bit not as great in Shanghai, when he could’ve finished off Dimi in straight sets but allowed Dimi to hang around longer than necessary. He got his serve broken by Cilic and then while serving for the match, lost serve again and had to play a TB to win. His mental focus was better at Beijing, and he’s more willing to move to the net or move to the forecourt there.
I dont think the court speed was the main reason for his loss, when Beijing was also a quick court. He’s simply not playing as superbly at Shanghai, the draw wasn’t necessarily as tough as Beijing either, with only Fed making all the difference in the final.
In response to Luckystar’s comment on page 4, october 16, 2017 at 6:30 AM.
Let’s post in the current page( page 6).
R. Federer was also finding his groove, he beat R. Nadal 4 times this year fair & square no excuses, he is the best.
Most times in an embarrassing way except for Australian Open, in all 3 masters the played in, fed schooled rafa and R. Nadal couldn’t win more than 7 games.
6-2, 6-3( Indian wells), 6-3, 6-4( Miami), 6-4, 6-3( Shanghai).
This doesn’t mean that Rafito is not a good player, it just means that he met THE BEST and the best player this year, no matter what happens at the end of the season/year R. Federer is the best and the best tennis player this year.
Thanks R. Federer, we are proud of you.
#36
#4-0
#iwant6-0
#5winsinaroll
#4finalsin5meetings
#wow
#iamdancingbaby
Currently, whether it’s quick or slow courts, hot or cold weather, clay, hard, grass or indoors, raining or shining, R. Federer will still defeat rafa multiple times, it might not be a flawless victory but Fed will still come out on top because he is THE BOSS.
Who’s your daddy now?
When Fed schooled rafa early in the season, you guy’s said rafa wasn’t in form, 4getting that Roger Federer was also recovering 4rm an injury and he is 36, the older u get the slower you recover from an injury or from an exercise or match.
Rafito was riding more than 10 wins in a roll and most of the predictions was that R. Federer will lose cos “this rafa is not the same in AO, IW, Miami” silly excuses.
What’s the excuse 2day?
The are countless, i don’t even know where to start.
Fed is the best and deserves all credit without any denigration or excuse 4 his victories.
#Yesbaby!