Andy Murray will be aiming for a place in the Queen’s Club semifinals when he takes the court against Gilles Muller on Friday. John Isner and Viktor Troicki are also part of the quarterfinal schedule.
(1) Andy Murray vs. Gilles Muller
Murray and Muller will be squaring off for the fourth time in their careers and for the second time this season when they clash in the quarterfinals of the AEGON Championships on Friday. The head-to-head series stands at 3-0 in favor of Murray, who most recently defeated Muller 6-4, 7-5 on the hard courts of Dubai earlier this year. This is their first-ever meeting on grass, as the Scot also prevailed on hard courts in 2011 (Davis Cup) and 2012 (Brisbane).
Muller has a British coach in Jamie Delgado, which may be a reason why gets along well with Murray and should be comfortable playing in London. The 48th-ranked Luxembourgian’s week is clearly off to a stellar start thanks to victories over Mikhail Youzhny (in a third-set tiebreaker) and Grigor Dimitrov. Murray has improved to 38-6 for his 2015 campaign after taking out Yen-Hsun Lu and Fernando Verdasco in straight sets earlier this week. The third-ranked Scot is 17-1 in his last 18 matches and 22-5 lifetime at Queen’s Club with three titles (2009, 2011, and 2013). One of the best returners in the game, Murray is a very difficult matchup for the big-serving Muller–even on grass.
Pick: Murray in 2 with no tiebreakers
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Viktor Troicki vs. John Isner
Although Thursday’s outcome of the Isner vs. Feliciano Lopez match may have been a slight surprise given the surface, the scoreline could not have been more expected. There were no breaks of serve and it ended 7-6(5), 6-7(9), 7-6(4) in favor of Isner, who out-aced Lopez 36-29. The 6’10” American had kicked off his week with a 7-6(11), 6-4 victory over countryman Jared Donaldson. Despite a disastrous first two months of the season, Isner now owns a respectable 21-13 record and is in contention for a top 16 seed at Wimbledon.
Up next for the world No. 18 is a sixth career showdown against Troicki. Isner still trails the head-to-head series 3-2 after getting the job done 7-6(4), 7-6(5) this spring on the clay courts of Monte-Carlo. Troicki is 3-1 at his opponent’s expense on hard courts and they have never faced each other on grass. Speaking of the slick stuff, Troicki’s Wimbledon preparation is off to a borderline ideal start. The 25th-ranked Serb finished runner-up to Rafael Nadal last week in Stuttgart and so far at Queen’s Club he has fought past Paul-Henri Mathieu and Marin Cilic–both in three sets. Troicki is no stranger to going up against the Isner serve and he will benefit from those experiences in addition to his minor surface advantage.
Pick: Troicki in 3
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I think Murray should get the win over Muller in straight sets. He’s playing well right now.
As for Troicki/Isner, I think it’s going three sets and could go either way. But I will go with the prediction and say Troicki gets the win.
Murray should have no trouble beating Muller…he has a great record against big servers…should win pretty easily in straights…..
Murray is already 1 set down.
Really!! i just came on here as i haven’t been watching….
Revenge of the ServeBots
won’t last long…..revenge of the ReturnBots will be the sequel to that movie…
Novak Smovak…astonishingly vicious humanoid ReturnBot…
C’mon Muller…save us from the terrifying all-encompassing smugness of the british commentators…..
even a few minutes enduring it can bring on an early death…..
Muller is playing better than I expected. He’s doing more than a servebot today.
If one Gilles wins is that auspicious or inauspicious for the other Gilles??
# too many Gilles spoils the broth..
one Gilles makes a summer….
sorry, should be one Gilles doesn’t make a summer…..
Muller did well to take that first set. He’s made a match of it. No straight sets win for Andy today.
Apparently Karlovic has beaten Berdy while serving 45 aces!! 45!!
# The Servebots Strike Back……
I am not watching the Murray match otherwise I will lose the will to live (NID that he will win…..)
Karlovic served 52 aces against Hewitt at RG in 2009 and still lost the match.
But he only averaged 10 aces per set in that 2009 match. Today he averaged 15 aces per set!!!
That’s a 50% difference!!!!!!!!!!!
45 aces! stunningly horrible…
Doctor Ivo wimby darkhorse…
Tsonga in doubt for wimby with injury…..
you are on a roll today, amy !
and feel sorry for Tsonga
hi chloro! not definite about jo…but boy has that guy had some bad luck with injuries. after a good RG he could have hoped to make inroads at wimby…
45 aces for Dr Ivo!!!!
the horror, the horror…..
the heart grows dark …
If I see any of the Servebots anywhere near Rafa in the Wm draw I will be very sad. I know he has a good record against them, but right now he doesn’t need that hassle, he could use some luck.
Then prepare to be very sad.
Draws and luck are not related.
does that count as a snap hawkeye!
It’s an unrequited snap at best.
I can see where you’re going. You cynical one.,
Servebots waiting with open arms……
So now Fed has to play Karlovic in the semifinal? I didn’t see his match, Fortunate for me! An ace fest is not my cup of tea!
Maybe he will serve even more against the Fed! I don’t think any player relished the prospect of playing Dr. Ivo!
Not all the servebots won today. JJ didn’t. Raonic didn’t. So there is hope for tennis.
Fed has a very good record against Dr Ivo. I think it’s something like 12-1 to Fed, sadly, so I expect him to go through.
Come on Ivo…..time to break your own record today….save Fed from his own smugness…
Fed wins….thanks so much Ivo…….
hope Simon wins…..Servebots to face extinction…..
commies going on about Murray’s ‘glorious form’ in last match…really?? was under the impression that Muller had him under the cosh for a set and a half…
As soon as they start cooing over Murray I just put it on ‘mute’.
yes me too…is unendurable…
Kei retires against Seppi in Halle.
How very “Kei”…………..
Nishikori had tape on his left calf:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH88NanWIAE6yas.png
(I didn’t watch the match)
poor Kei…let’s hope Seppi plays like he did at AO..
Simon takes second set….
I tried to get score updates on the new atp website and can’t find my around for anything! 🙁
you have to go direct to the live app don’t go via any other click ….
also i had to change my cookies on browser to accept all….
Yes, I figured it out finally. Thanks for the info! It’s quite the nightmare!
It helps to turn on the tv! So now Simon and Anderson are on serve in the third set.
I really want Simon to win this match.
Anderson wins…sigh…
another servebot shindig…dancing on the bones of humanity……
Sorry to see Simon lose. It’s all about the serve on grass.
Troicki falls over and hurt his shoulder. Rain stops play again.
Queens rain delay; update at 6.45 pm.
https://twitter.com/BritishTennis/status/612316380969455620
The BBC commies again assuming that it’s Andy who will be in the final, Sue Barker opening by saying it will be a long day on the longest day of the year for Andy having to play 2 matches on the same day.
Vamos Troicki
Murray is emulating Djoko by chastising himself every time he misses same as Djoko always fakes losing his balance or opening his eyes wide or pointing at his brain or staring at his box.
Nadline
Surely that’s the dreaded KnowAll commentating this match.
Jason wasn’t on the BBC it was Andrew Castle and Lloyd both equally annoying. I don’t even think Lloyd is genuine in his admiration of Andy I detect a tinge of jealousy in his voice whilst Castle really has nothing to be jealous about as he hardly got on the ladder to success.
I’m neutral about Andy but he seems to give Rafa a rough ride whilst never seeming to go all out to beat Djoker or others and that really gets to me.
did you notice that Castle was repeating what he ALWAYS says about Murray – at least for the last 2/3 years….’can you imagine anyone hitting their way through Murray over 3 sets let alone 5…’
last year at wimby he was saying the same thing exactly and J-Mac cut in while barely concealing his irritation saying ‘ i could think of one or 2….’
I was watching on ATP’s live streaming so it may have been from Eurosport.coverage. The other commentator sounded bit like Henman, when he managed to get a word in edgeways which wasn’t very often. Was watching BBC while I was in the UK. Agree on Caslte and Lloyd!!
re: your last paragraph.
Are you discounting the USO and Wimbledon titles 🙂
I missed the conclusion of the first set – just got back from London in the early hours this morning. Was surprised Murray had started out that well bearing in mind he hates playing early in the morning and normally takes a set to wake up. He was lucky to take the second tie-break though and gets a breather before the final.
Amy, this is what makes it so irritating. The over-egging of Andy is too much He is a good player but he is not invincible. I’m convinced they get a bonus for bigging him up.
ed, Troicki had to start off today with Ad to Murray against his serve so it was easy for Andy to take advantage of that and get the break. The 2nd set was close but it wasn’t scintillating tennis by either of them although I give Andy the edge there because Troicki didn’t make the most of the break he got and played too safe.
not sure they really believe their own hype over murray…it’s the equivalent of the Party Line, as you say,so they all go ‘on message’…when murray isn’t around they go off message pretty quickly and start saying what they really think which is s.th. quite different….then they remember what they’re supposed to be saying and start trying to self-correct…
i always enjoy J-Mac audibly trying not to lose it and putting the boot in sotto voce…
Don’t even get me started on Petchey.
please do!!! i don’t like him either…. ITV RG coverage apart from Invertwerp is really good except for him….. Fabrice Santoro especially is great…..
Thing is, i think murray may well win wimby because Chokovic tends to turn up when he has to face the wimby home crowd. everyone says murray is so much better than djoker on grass because of wins at olympics (when the crowd was screaming one more point, constantly!) and wimby but i reckon if you played on exactly the same court in exactly the same conditions in a different country then the result would not have been the same.
How about if the other top players had home slams? how many would they have then??
WTF is in London as well…..
amy says:
June 21, 2015 at 12:37 pm
Thing is, i think murray may well win wimby because Chokovic tends to turn up when he has to face the wimby home crowd.
———————————-
So you think Wimby is only between Murray and Chokovic?
no, i don’t……but there is a real chance that could be the final…..
Murray, chokovic and fed are the runaway favourites unless stan brings his a-game to play in which case he’s obviously in the mix as well……
EVERY year regardless i think that rafa will win wimby….not this year am afraid….don’t see how he can suddenly become consistent enough……
amy, are you writing off Rafa’s chances?
Rafa has got to turn the corner sometime.
see above nadline……! i never ever write off rafa but this is the first year when i am not day-dreaming about his winning….
having said that, closer to the time i will probably part company with reality and start fantasising….
ha ha …was thinking that if i write off the idea of rafa winning then he’ll probably go and do it….!
when slams are totted up at the end no-one factors in home slam advantage – although for great players it definitely is…..imagine if there were a slam in Spain or Switzerland, or Serbia….or none in London….
Not necessarily. Mark Edmonson was the last Australian to win the AO in 1976, Roddick was the last American to win the USO in 2003, Yanick Noah was the last Frenchman to win RG in 1983 and we had to wait for 76 years for a Brit to win Wimbledon.
that’s a lot to do with other larger changes though to do with the players available who are capable of winning…including the astonishing decline in men’s tennis in the US.
is difficult not to see rafa winning multiple home slams…same with fed or djoker…..
that’s what i meant about it being to the advantage of great players to have a home slam…it’s not an advantage if you’re just mediocre or a nearly-man….
Federer is on home soil at all four slams.
Fed is on the astral plane….a celestial being among mortals……..
Good one Hawkeye!
I think home court is an advantage for Davis Cup but not for slams. Somehow playing for the team is quite different from playing for individual glory.
I totally agree with Mary.
Some players rise to the occasion like no other when it is DC in front of the home crowd and play way beyond their normal level. With Slams living up to the hopes and dreams of the home crowd is too big a burden. Over the years Murray learnt to deal with the pressure pretty well but I think it was winning the Olympic gold and USO first that finally got him over the line.
just looked at ladbrokes betting odds for wimby:
djoker 5/4
murray 3-1
fed6-1
rafa 12-1
stan 12-1
is that the longest odds rafa has had at a slam in a long while? bit surprising that stan hasn’t got shorter odds, i know he hasn’t done much on grass but he has just won RG…..
Well, not surprised about the betting odds really. Rafa needs to break the mould of his slump to get better odds. Not that I pay too much attention to betting odds.
Fed won Halle..He is looking good for an assault at Wimbledon.
He played very well when he was down BPs..he had 2 set points against him in 1st set and boom 2 aces and closing of 2nd set hit some great BH DTL winners.
Fed always seems much more dangerous over 3 sets than 5 though Sanju as age becomes much more of a factor then…….
bookies have him as 3rd fave for wimby which is maybe about right
To me I think Fed, Djokovic, Murray have equal chances this year. Neither is a bigger fav than the other. It will be interesting to see whose half Murray falls in.
I hope Djokovic and Murray are in same half with Fed, Stan, Rafa in other half
yeah i’m hoping that sanju…only chance for rafa is cake draw early with djoker and murray on the other side….
maybe playing fed is the way for rafa to finally turn the corner! we know that fed brings out the best in rafa and worst in fed…if he were to beat fed it would give him the huge boost he needs……
That is true but he very nearly won it last year amy..it was just a matter of few points here n there. He can win it as he is most confident of doing it at Wimby.
What I am trying to say is the guy is 2 set points down and he dishes out 2 aces.
How I wish Rafa had Feds serve..man would have helped him so much.
yeah i know sanju…problem with rafa’s game is that he doesn’t play first strike tennis so there is so much more pressure on him……..
but we all know how fed and his backhand have a nervous breakdown when they see rafa……..it is not just wishful thinking that rafa could beat him….
Rafa has a chance at Wimby? Seriously folks? Cmon he does not stand a realistic cahnce at all. He is at best 5th fav behind Djokovic, Federer, Murray, Stan
i just said that the others were favourites above him sanju!!
Yes, I agree with this. Unfortunately.
I think Murray is the favorite (if not injured). He is the current best on grass. I wouldn’t rule out Rafa after Uncle Toni’s statement that Rafa is pain free. Rafa looks quite happy. Hope that means he is ready to win slams, not that he is content with 14 slams.
Mary..it depends how badly he wants it. He wont win till he is willing to push himself to win it. No one wins a slam by being happy and content..its the desire and will and frankly Rafa is not showing that hunger in his body language and statements.
i wish he would stop sounding so happy about losing…..a lot of things rafa says these days don’t sound like rafa but like someone who has been pre-programmed to go ‘on message’….
When is Rafa reaching Wimby? Monday or Wednesday as Toni has stayed back at Queens and not gone home.
i think Toni said monday…..
Fed had a tough draw but won Halle without facing any one difficult..thats called luck..No Berdych..No Nishikori..
not just luck but the intervention of divine forces on behalf of the Chosen One……
Murray and Djokovic won’t both make the wimby final.
Federer was absolutely amazing today. At almost 34 he’s never been better on grass than he was today.
No one has a better chance than him at wimby especially given a cupcake draw.
If past is any guide, Fed will get a cupcake draw.
My prediction for Wimbledon draw, Rafa in Stan’s Quarter and in Fed’s half.
I wish that too Mary but not sure if Rafa is better being in Stans qtr or Feds on grass?
Fed is better on grass than Stan however Rafa is better against Fed than Stan. Stan can hit through him and overpower him.
I just hope he is not in Murrays or Noles.
sanju, if Rafa is not playing well, anyone can take him out. If he is playing great, Stan is not a threat.
Fed thrives on cupcake draws.
And what do u predict for Rafa hawkeye?
Whaaa….Fed was clutch in Halle. Not “better than ever.” I don’t know where you lot concoct such stuff. Obviously, it doesn’t come from understanding the game. Seppi was matching Roger reasonably well off the ground and Roger is really struggling with his FH even now (though less visible on grass). His net game however, has never been better. That’s where he’s gotten better. But it’s not enough to win him any major. The top players KNOW his weakness off his forehand. They will exploit it. It remains to be seen whether Federer will tighten the screws going into Wimbledon.
Is that why Federer came within two games of winning Wimbledon just last year?
So much for you knowing anything about the game.
Too funny!
And you obviously know nothing about how to use quotation marks.
hawkeye63, OxC is a “knowledgeable” fan!
Dude, you aren’t giving me anything by way of counter-argument (probably because no one ‘taught’ you). There are several obvious reasons why Fed would push Novak at his favourite tournament:
1) Let’s start with the simple reason: It’s a Wimbledon final and Federer is far and away the better grass-courter, with a wider skill-set on the surface than Novak (slices, half-volleys, net play, drop-shots, even the service placement. His slice serve out wide in the deuce court is a thing of beauty).
2) Really? Your argument is that Fed made it a five set match when he could’ve lost it in four? Did you ever bother to watch Connors? Or any top notch player not named Nadal for that matter? It is so normal a phenomenon, it’s ridiculous you’d even bring it up. Unless these guys lose motivation or are seriously injured, there is no way they’re not making a fight out of the tournaments they prize. That’s the reason they play competitive sport to begin with. Guys like Borg/Sampras still had the skill when they retired. Both however had nothing to play for, for reasons of their own. Fed has plenty to play for.
3) Really? My quotation marks? So now you’re building strawmen too? Did nobody teach you how to string a logical argument? On second thoughts, not surprising because you don’t watch tennis. You watch Nadal only.
4) In that five-setter you just cited above, Djokovic was still winning a vast majority of the baseline exchanges which is where Fed’s decline is visible.
all 3 have a stellar chance
You’ve invalidated everything you said when you said Federer never had a real chance when he was two games away from the title.
Too funny!!!
Chill “Dude”.
Hahahaha, anyone who’s won two out of three sets is two games away from winning the match in any given concluding set. Talk about fallacious misrepresentation. I didn’t contradict or invalidate anything. You on the other hand just made my point for me with that useless bit of skullduggery because obviously you didn’t have a retort.
Why do u say that hawkeye that both Djoko and Murray wont make?
Because of the draw .
#NID
Amy: You need to know Nadline and I have a long history, going back some eight years, on the subject of Andy 😉
But I freely admit he is a favourite of mine whenever Rafa is not on the scene.
fair enough ed!! i am happy to admit to my own british prejudice on this subject so you can safely ignore a lot of what i say…..i was the same about henman at wimby……
the british commies and press just drive me absolutely insane!!!
So British prejudice means rooting against the home boy?
I do feel guilty ed, when I express my thoughts on Andy because I know you are a fan. People often assume I am a fan because I am British so I always have to put them right. I have absolutely nothing against Andy just that he’s not Rafa. 🙂
I am watching my favourite player’s matches in Stuttgart all over again, right now because I’ve been starved of scintillating tennis today. Neither of the matches was anything to write home about. Going to bore myself with the Queens final now. Yawns!
Come n Rafa! Tennis needs you. I can’t take these boring matches anymore.
Laver is available on YouTube too.
Seems like a certain blogger agrees with you though nadline10 as we haven’t seen any match previews at either tournament since the quarters.
Hilarious!!!
Yes, I did notice that. It’s the inescapable truth that Rafa is tennis.
For devout rafans at any rate.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of tennis sites/blogs close down after Fed and Rafa retire.
^^^@ 1.44pm
You’ll be telling me next you don’t care who wins Queen’s!!
But I’m with you – as a player they don’t come more bland than Anderson.
#PersonalityBypass
No I don’t care who wins Queens. I know Andy will win so I just have to avoid all the hyperbole by not listening any sports reports for the next 2 days.
I am wondering how at almost 34 Federer is able to recover so quickly after taxing long rallies.
Curious.
No idea what match you were watching because there were hardly any long rallies in Halle. Although yes, Nadal’s “miraulous” comebacks from injuries certainly are curious.
More curious OxC are Fed’s not needing any injury breaks in his long career! Now that is what I call a miracle! He probably isn’t a human at all!
If Fed were Nadal, there would be a ready explanation from “knowledgeable” fans for his age defying performance! But Fed is a natural genius. Shh, peRFection at work!
Actually there were quite a few and old fed hardly breathed at all.
Similar was true against Stan at the French when there were many long rallies
Curious indeed. Now we know why the average age in tennis continues to rise and old Fed leads the way.
Better living through chemistry I suppose.
No there weren’t. Again, if you actually watched tennis you’d know. But you don’t. Anyway, on the whole, a very clutch performance from Fed. He doesn’t seem to have fully adjusted to his racquet even now so he hasn’t been hitting through the court nearly as well. But that slice does so much more damage.
Yes there were. Yes I knew about Sampras.
Yes most players feel a long rally that they take a few more seconds between serves.
Fed lost. Talk about a straw man.
You seem to think anger and insults are a good argument.
Too funny!
See what you want to see.
His fh is as good as ever but he’s being forced to go for lower margin shots ergo more ues.
Still never played better. Just can’t win a slams like he used to because the field caught up.
Except, Federer lost that QF in straight sets. Most of the top guys (unless they’re pulling shenanigans) don’t huff-and-puff after rallies. Even Sampras with his thalassemia (oh but you didn’t know that, did you? Yes, Pete with a blood condition played full professional tennis) did not do that. Other than Fed’s first round match, where he was struggling with his footwork (again, no way does he do that in his prime) I did not see any particularly long points. 10-12 shots with a reasonable amount of net exchanges is completely normal on the grass of today for any seasoned player (unless they’re Kei or Grigor).
The better competition doesn’t always give him all the time he wants.
The man could simply dance his way to slam titles back in the weak era.
Sampras’ condition was well known. Besides if you ever watched him play you’d know he never needed long rallies. Seems to me a real tennis fan would know that.
Hilarious!
Nope. You didn’t watch Sampras play at all. Pete could hang tough with the baseliners as well as he could serve and volley. And yes, contrary to popular belief he did indulge in the baseline exchanges, particularly on hard courts. If you watched tennis you’d know this but you don’t. And you definitely did not know of Pete’s condition until I mentioned it given how easily you just trivialized the whole issue. This shows two things: 1) You don’t know tennis and 2) Like your hero, have no respect whatsoever for the game.
As for Fed not needing time between points: Unlike your hero, Fed knows how to play it fair. The players before him-whether offensive or defensive baseliners also played fair. And unlike your hero, Fed actually respects the previous generations.
when he had to. Sampras tried to keep points short whenever possible. Luckily for him, he actually played in an era when courts were fast.
Also, what is this nonsense about players taking more time between the points because they get tired after rallies? What a ridiculous excuse. All these guys are READY for the service within a few seconds of the points. It is their actual service motion with either hundreds of nonsensical tics or ball-bouncing that takes the time. Also, if they can play at the server’s pace on their return game, no matter how fast, what precludes them from being on time on serves? Really, some people will do anything to justify rule-breaking nowadays. Any random reasoning with no logical explanation flies.
If it really is a physically taxing rally, most players and umpires understand and give the leeway. But to do it after 7-8 shots at best is so ridiculous.
You just contradicted yourself in the same post. HILARIOUS
Rafa won Stuttgart, Fed won Halle, if Murray wins Queens they will all be favourites at Wimbledon. End of………
No
Mary I hope you draw prediction comes true. I just want Rafa to be in Fed’s half but I doubt that will happen. I expect krygios to be in his path also as is Wimby’s wont.
I think that Fed, Novak and Murray are all the favorites for Wimbledon. Murray looked good today winning Queens. He’s set himself up nicely for Wimbledon. He’s playing much better than last year. Novak won it last year so he can’t be counted out. Of course Fed wants to win another Wimbledon and get his 18th slam. He didn’t have much competition at Halle, but it’s all about preparation for the big one.
Sanju says:
June 21, 2015 at 3:14 pm
I wish that too Mary but not sure if Rafa is better being in Stans qtr or Feds on grass?
Fed is better on grass than Stan however Rafa is better against Fed than Stan. Stan can hit through him and overpower him.
I just hope he is not in Murrays or Noles.
Yea, Stan can hit through Rafa and overpower him. 🙂 Stan has won one match against a fully fit Rafa in 14 matches and you are so disparaging about Rafa! If Rafa gets his head together he is a match for anyone.
Is this Rafa the same Rafa who beat Stan so many times? Rafa needs to get his forehand back to its old lethal level before we can be confident about his chances against Stan or even Fed.
When Rafa gets his confidence back you will all eat your words.
The operative words being – if Rafa gets his head together!
Rafa has won two Wimbledon titles. He’s been in five finals, I believe. So we know that he can play on grass. But injuries have hampered him in recent years. Now he will go into Wimbledon healthy per Uncle Toni. Hopefully, his physical health will help him to get it together mentally.
I won’t have to eat any of my words because I have said that at some point, Rafa will get himself together. He’s going to have another great run, but I can’t say when or where. I still believe him absolutely. It’s been hard to watch him struggle this year. No one likes seeing their favorite player having such a tough time.
If we didn’t care, then we wouldn’t spend so much time talking about Rafa! 🙂
I would love to see all your heroes take of a total one year out of the last 3 years and come back full of confidence. Anyone would think Rafa can’t play tennis anymore. Rafa absolutely dominated Monfils and he is by no means a walk in the park.
Khols had match point against Fed in Halle after all. Had Rafa won his match against Dolgo, who knows what might have happened.
nadline seems quite upbeat about Rafa’s chances at Wimbledon?
Nobody here thinks Rafa can’t play tennis anymore. However, I can’t imagine anyone thinking that what we have seen this year has been the norm for Rafa.
I know full well that Rafa has been disadvantaged by having to lose so much time due to injuries. I did not know what to expect when he came back from this latest layoff. To see him struggling and losing to players that have never beaten him, is quite difficult.
It’s true that no one can know what might have happened had Rafa won his match against Dolgo. He seemed to be on the way to doing just that. But it didn’t happen, so any speculation about what might have been, seems moot.
It has not been the norm for Rafa, even Rafa knows that, but there is no reason to talk about him in the terms some are. I know it’s easy to lower expectations to avoid yet more disappointments but I know he’s got the game so I’m always hopeful.
i had to go out this afternoon so i wasn’t going to watch the match anyway…but as i was going out the commies were working themselves up into such a fever pitch that i would not have been surprised if they had spontaneously combusted, burning so brightly that they could be seen across the ocean….
this is what drives one stark raving bonkers……
also, regarding some of the comments earlier on, when rafa has been injured in the past their rhetoric to do with bigging up murray has involved writing off and dissing rafa….I do not take kindly to this…..
is hawkeye playing devil’s advocate? talking about fed as though he already were clasping numero 18 to his breast……
No. hawkeye is a die hard Fedfan.
We heard the same thing right before RG after the draw came out! 🙂
Really? i am starting to wonder if ricky and hawkeye are the same person!!
they both enjoy putting the cat among the pigeons and winding us up…….
This was what Rafa said when told Novak was the favourite for the RG 2013 SF:
“I don’t give a damn about it,” Nadal said. “I try and play my best tennis, and the least of my concerns is to know if I’m favoured or not. These are words that will be carried away by the wind. What will stay is my tennis, my match, and who is going to win the match. That’s reality. But the rest is speculation beforehand.”
You all take note 🙂
That is just pure Rafa. He’s said this at other times in the past. I remember one year heading into the AO and Rafa was not being touted as the favorite. He was asked about that and he said that he understands that people have to make predictions, but that it has nothing to do with what happens on the court. No matter the predictions, players still have to go out and win on the court. Wise words from Rafa. I don’t think Rafa has ever cared if he was the favorite.
I have not given up on Rafa. If I had, then I would not still be here talking about him. If I say who I think are the favorites going into Wimbledon, that is just my opinion based on their form so far this year. It does not guarantee that they will win! 🙂
Just ask nadline10 when was the last time that “a fully fit Rafa” lost a match.
Hilarious!!!
Do you know, it was so long ago I can’t remember. must have been when he was 15/16 years old.
The question we should ask hawkeye63 is when was the last time Rafa played when he was fully fit?
Well firstly we’d have to dismiss all of his losses of course.
ha ha, hawkeye you are incorrigible!
Wimbledon awaits ‘this guy’:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIDJdFkUYAA0olf.png
I was listening to similar OTT awe and amazement from the Jason Knowitall and Javind Palmer duo. We were repeatedly told us Murray was on the brink of joining the illustrious group of players who’d won Queen’s no less than FOUR times. I know it is due to become a 500 tournament but winning a 250 warm up tournament is hardly the pinnacle of achievement for the top players.
.
Palmer then followed up with:
‘by winning his 50th title, Murray becomes No.3 in the list of title holders in the open era. Don’t know what stats he was being fed but surely Djokovic is No.3 with 53 titles.
He went on ‘Federer of course is No.1 with 83 titles’ and then in a rather dismissive voice ‘Nadal is No.2 – WAY behind with ONLY 66 titles to HIS name’. Naturally there was no mention 33 of Federer’s titles were won between 2000-2005 before Djokovic and Murray joined Nadal to spoil the party for him.
No only that, half of Roger’s titles are 250s. The worst I heard was Castle saying Murray is sooooo good it’s impossible to imagine that Djokovic has managed to beat him 8 times in a row; that means Djokovic must be extremely good.
I noticed that there were British commentators for Queens this week. Sometimes the tennis channel will use them for the smaller tournaments abroad. But the only Brit who I know by his voice is Robbie Koenig.
I didn’t get their names and reading some of the comments here about how the British commentators go on and on about Murray now, I wonder if I was listening to them and didn’t realize it. Sometimes I try to tune it out if the hyperbole gets to be over the top.
Except he’s not a Brit.
NNY: Koenig is South African (former doubles champion player) usual paired with Jason Goodall for Slams and Masters. Ricky rates them amongst the best. I don’t dispute they are expert analysts of the game but I know I’m not alone in finding Goodall’s dissection of each shot together with Koenig’s endless anecdotes about his playing days and their joint attempts at being ‘amusing’ both irritating and distracting.
ed,
Oh, thanks for the correction. His accent is not so distinctively South African. Yes, he is usually paired up with Jason Goodall. They do work together and do commentary.
All I know is that there are Brits who do the commentary for the tennis channel, mostly for the European smaller tournaments. I actually like them because they don’t go on and on and talk as much as American commentators tend to do.
Murray has not won 50 titles on ATP circuit. Who is giving this bull story?
Murray has won just 33 titles in his career..half of Rafa
2015
3
Rank
–
Move
36-6
W-L
2
Titles
$3,549,441
Prize Money
Career
2
Career High 2009.08.17
517-157
W-L
33
Titles
$37,752,984
Prize Money Singles & Doubles combined
Sanj: It’s 34 with Queen’s!
I was merely quoting from the commentary I was tuned into.
Clearly the 50 must have slipped in because he has played 50 ATP finals. The commies were given the wrong figure. No idea where the idea he is now ranked no. 3 in most titles won in open era came from.
They were too intent on bigging up Murray to think it through. Andy will be embarrassed when he learns what was being said about him. He’s not one for blowing his own trumpet.
Yes 33/34 including Queens
Novak 53
Rafa 66
Fed 86
Rafa may never touch 86 , its almost ruled out but Novak can very well touch 66 (:-
Rafa is 10th in rankings and 8th in RACE. Feel horrible seeing this.
^^^^^Take solace from the fact he doesn’t have many points to defend for the rest of the year.
But 8th in RACE this part of year looks so horrible to digest. He always was 1 or 2 at end of RG in RACE. Don’t remember he ever went to 3rd too at end of RG. Even in 2009..he had won AO and some big titles like IW, MC, Rome ,Barcelona etc..so was 1st in RACE.
yeah is not good to see sanju, because it’s all very well not having points to defend..he’s still got to gain points……(after US open he doesn’t gain very many even when playing well with a top ranking) so his window for gaining points isn’t that large. also, is much more difficult going into the hard-court season with a lower ranking as could meet djoker, murray, fed in fourth round unless he has a very good wimby and gets back inside top 8!
this is why I don’t understand why people (and rafa too) say only the race points matter. The 12 months rolling points can make a big difference in the draw. And when rafa is not playing like he used to, that matters.
this time last year rafa was the world number one and had 12, 500 ranking points…..
it is shattering to think of the difference now. world number 10 with 3, 150 (approx) points
of course he lost 4, 000 points because of the wrist injury not being able to defend cinci, toronto, USO….
He needs race points too, right now. Not to qualify for the WTF would be the final blow to his confidence. No point any of us crying over spilt milk. It hasn’t been spilt yet.
As Leonard Cohen sings:
When you’ve fallen on the highway
and you’re lying in the rain,
and they ask you how you’re doing
of course you’ll say you can’t complain —
If you’re squeezed for information,
that’s when you’ve got to play it dumb:
You just say you’re out there waiting
for the miracle, for the miracle to come.
this site eats my replies! i just wrote that it is shattering to think that rafa was world number one this time last year with 12, 500 ranking points. now he’s number 10 with approx. 3, 150
he lost so many points not being able to defend montreal, cinci and the USO
i just have to approve it. Its still there.
ok..now it’s come through as anonymous twice! don’t know why…….?
anonymous is me amy chloro!! not that the comment is worth replying to anyway…..!
not hard to guess the identity. Your writing style is quite distinctive!
is it ed??? i wouldn’t have thought you could guess my identity from that kind of factual post…. i suppose my habit of relentless non-capitalisation is a bit of a giveaway……!
I was paying you a compliment you chump.
The ability to communicate thoughts and ideas concisely and with a light touch in well-turned phrases is one of your hallmarks.
i can’t get this site to work! keep clicking on places and get no response!
thanks for that ed….although maybe the ‘chump’ bit is most apposite!
i love that leonard cohen song!!!! one of my favourites….
weird to think that wimby would be starting today except for the time change of the extra week.
am personally utterly irritated that this is the first wimby since 2011 according to toni that rafa goes in able to play freely as his knees are so much better PLUS with the extra week to make adjustment from the clay yet at no time since 2005 has he looked less likely to do well. this is potentially a huge wasted opportunity – i say potentially given that we don’t know what the outcome will be but since 2004! he’s never gone in with less momentum behind him.(this really does matter with rafa as he has said time and time again the winning RG has given him confidence and momentum to go on and play with colm and positivity).
chloro,
I just wanted to say thanks for your post @ 1:35 pm. The twelve months rolling points DO make a difference. At times I have tried to make this point without much success.
thank you anon 🙂
when I said I don’t understand I meant that almost entirely straight. the difference the rolling ranking points make is that clear.
If anything it is the ranking points that are … weird. In the first part of the year so few tournaments have been played that they are very biased… on hardcourts, on who played more tournaments or perhaps was injured or had a bad upset and such…
it is only towards the end of the year that the race points are representative of who has been winning more consistently…. by which time they are more or less the same as the rolling points.
in short, the race points only are meaningful wrt the year end tournament and who might be number 1… but early in the year they are not an indication of that necessarily… you could even argue that the rolling points are more so at just about any time of the year.
i see rafa is playing at the boodles this week along with nole….
I didn’t know that Rafa was playing at the Boodles this week.
Quiz for amy:
Rafa has 2 USO titles. Who did he beat in the final of both of them?
nole !! why!?
oh you mean that rafa can beat nole on a hard court??! well yes of course he can when he is rafa but he’s not playing like rafa at the moment is he?
He will anytime now.
hope so…..hope he finally gets some luck with the draw…..he’s had so much bad luck that i honestly feel that might help his mindset……
i can’t believe (or rather can) that quote from castle you mentioned above…..utterly typical and we will have weeks of it to come!
Rafa does need some luck. He also suffers from everyone gunning for him. I haven’t seen Krygios play like he did against Rafa nor Rosol. Luckily, the weather is dry now so the grass shouldn’t be too slippery.
Rafa is playing at Boodles.
“Rafael Nadal, who made an early exit at Queen’s, will prepare for Wimbledon by playing two matches as part of The Boodles tournament at Stoke Park, Buckinghamshire. Novak Djokovic has also been confirmed for the tournament.
Tournament director Patricio Apey said: “We are delighted to have received the phone call from Rafa which just adds to an already excellent line-up. We are happy to do whatever we can to help Rafa finalise his Wimbledon preparations here at The Boodles 2015.”
The event starts on Tuesday and runs until Saturday, although it is yet to be announced when Rafa will play.”
http://rafaelnadalfans.com/2015/06/22/rafael-nadal-to-play-boodles-exhibition-before-wimbledon/
is there something wrong with the site? i sent a reply to chloro which disappeared, wrote it again and that’s disappeared…..
amy, that used to happen to me then augusta told me what to do. I’m sure she’ll give you some instructions on registering with WP.
oh thanks nadline i’ll ask her….it keeps happening and drives me a bit crazy…..
BTW, will someone please drop a large rock on rosol’s head…..!
everywhere rafa goes he seems to follow like some hideous stalker…..
i don’t want him, kygrios, dolgo, or klizan anywhere near him in the wimby draw….
Does anyone have information as to whether Boodles will be televised? I thought that Novak doesn’t usually play any warm up tournaments prior to Wimbledon.
novak nearly always plays the Boodles nny…..
i don’t know whether it will be televised…..
amy,
Thanks for that. Yes, if memory serves I do recall that Novak does play Boodles.
I am not expecting it to be televised even on the the tennis channel here in the states. I don’t believe that they have done it in the past.
It’s just great to hear that Rafa will get some more match play leading up to Wimbledon.
nny, i think that ed said that she had seen boodles televised before so it must happen sometimes…but no-one seems to know by whom…..
yes it is good that rafa gets more match play….just as long as he doesn’t play the uber-idiot rosol who is there this week……..!
amy,
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIHxaqwW8AAz0j2.png
thanks very much for that augusta… i will try that later on tonight…..
thanks again….
The Boodles has scheduled a live stream:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoxAAnmM04Pjz8fJBCipPdQ
Federer is the best package on grass overall….Let’s see how well he is able to play this year. Murray’s game is also quite well suited to grass and he is the slight favorite to me ahead of Djokovic. Novak raises his level a lot during the second week as he is able to use the worn out grass like rafa used to do in his good years on grass.
Regarding rafa, his game was at a good level I believe. The issue is all mental . He lacks confidence to find answers in the most difficult situations and nerves become too much of a hindrance for him. The draw is crucial! SO crucial for him .
Nobody can predict when will rafa overcome his confidence issues. We just know that only by winning matches can be regain his lost confidence. I am glad he is playing at the Boodles. His physical conditioning and game on grass will be the best since 4 years and if he can show more resilience in the toughest of moments, he will make a strong run.
I hope big hitters/servers , esp Kyrgios/rosol, stay away from him. Guys who can serve big and hit hard off both wings are big trouble for him in the first week. If he can somehow reach the qtr final, things will get better. It all depends on whom, he runs into . So many possibilities now that he is ranked no.10.. ..will only be able to comment more when the draw comes out.
Rafa’s draw will have tall serve bots and Federer will have many weak era veterans. Muzza will be in Nole’s half.
Nothing new.
#ByDesign
vamosrafa,
Nice to read your take on the top players leading up to Wimbledon. Fed will be primed to try to go for #18 at Wimby for sure! The issue with Fed is that despite how well he is playing for a guy who will very soon turn 34, these best of five set matches are tough for him. I don’t see him being able to sustain a high enough level of play to get it done. But you never know.
It’s interesting that you rate Murray as the slight favorite over Novak. He is playing well right now and will want to make a run for the win this year after the disappointment of last year.
I like your take on Rafa. We really have to hope that those big serving guys are not in his path in the early rounds! The draw will tell us so much more. It’s all about the mental aspect because he’s physically healthy now.
NNY,
I agree with wha you said about federer. Federer playing his best tennis consistently is very unlikely. IF federer is able to play his best tennis consistently on grass, the only guy who can beat him in a confident rafa. Rafa has the game to take federer down on grass but as I said, nothing can be predicted about rafa until we see him win some good matches.
Murray has a big skill-set on grass and the fact that it will be easier to penetrate novak’s defense. Novak is able to force andy into errors or eventualy draw an attack-able shot on slower hard courts and clay courts but on grass, it is very different. Andy will have a great chance to beat him and let us not forget that Novak has lost 5/5 sets he has played against Andy on grass!
It will be tough and we fill find out more when the tournament plays on. Federer has changed his game now as compared to his prime years and he is still such a big threat.Novak is the most consistent player so let’s see..
I saw someone comment that Stan won’t be an issue for rafa if rafa is playing well! haha….won’t be an issue? stan is an issue for everyone! He has the most destructive baseline game out there. I bet everyone wants to avoid playing stan ! A confident rafa will take stan down but to say he is not an issue is a joke..
agree with most of that vamosrafa…
re. fed and rafa, fed is trying now to play more aggressive and come more to the net…that plays even more into the hands of rafa who has the best passing shots in the history of the game…..
Federer has made the changes required to stay relevant and able to be a serious threat as slams off clay at almost 34 years of age.
An 18th slam would put him into GOAT territory again.
vr, you are suffering from hubris. Your opinions are not facts and it is extremely disrespectful on your part to describe my opinion (that when Rafa is 100% then stan is not an issue) as ” a joke”.
hawkeye back it up with stats. Neither 1st or 2nd ROS stats as per ATP match facts have Djoker in 1st place. What stats are you referring to?
There is no stat to back up ROS (i.e., how well and how often one is capable of placing the first return of the serve). It is simply my opinion (along with many others).
Hope this helps.
who is better at ROS agassi or djoker? i say about even…..
Back in the 90s, it was commonly accepted that Agassi had the best ROS.
Even though I wasn’t a big fan of his, I agreed.
Oh snap Amy.
I’d give the edge to Djokovic.
J-Mac is always saying djoker’s is best ever, even better than agassi’s…..
is a bit odd to diss djoker’s return given the horrible damage it was doing to rafa in 2011 and still can do…that would seem to rubbish rafa! rafa himself has said that djoker’s ros is unbelievable……..
This is a good opinion piece on best ROS (the ads are annoying):
http://www.worldtennismagazine.com/archives/8105
His statement on Agassi pretty much defines what makes the best ROS:
“He could read the serve with uncanny regularity and would take the initiative away from the server in an instant with his crackling returns off both sides.”
hawkeye thanks for confirming it is only your opinion. Which flies in the face of ROS stats for 1st and 2nd serve. Assuming however that no stat can capture ROS, I hope you and vr can stop being obnoxious to fans who hold contrary opinions by pretending that what you are stating are facts.
Where did I say is wasn’t my opinion. Please read more carefully.
mary, you are suffering from hubris. Your opinions are not facts and it is extremely disrespectful on your part to describe my opinion (that Djokovic has the best ROS) as ”obnoxious”.
#PotAndKettleSyndrome
hawkeye, it is not your opinion which is obnoxious but your behavior. You describe gussie as a bot or delusional or comical. vr claims my opinion is a joke simply because he doesn’t agree. nadline was accused of not knowing the difference between return game and return of service when she disagreed about Djokovic having the best ROS. Stop being condescending and obnoxious.
All the posts by Mary, there seems to be something familiar with the way these reactions are coming up ..haha… and the constant naming of certain posters to defend some and naming others is kind of funny 😉
Anyway, I usually use facts and stats but some things are simply subjective and tennis fans through their years of experience of watching the game can easily ‘see’ them. Novak has the best ROS of this generation IMO , very closely followed by Murray and Ferrer.
The stats you are referring to are relevant to return game and NOT ROS! No matter how good John Isner can hit his ROS, he can never have an equally good return game because his defensive skills are of no match to the top guys ,, his movement his average and he just cannot turn defense into offense like someone like rafa does!
So why do you people think there is such a consensus on Novak having the best ROS? Rafa said the same in 2011 ! Do you have any FACTS or stats to back up the claim that rafa has the best forehand in the game?? It is by observation that we can say that! Look at the quality of djokovic’s returns. My word! His ROS is so scary! Gives no short balls, can cream winners, spread the court ,change direction so effortlessly. Rafa’s is a very different shot and lacks the effectiveness. His return GAME however, is arguably the greatest ever!
and I am suffering from Hubris,,, but ‘two dozen leading coaches , players and analysts’ are not doing the same. Refer to the stuff below Newyork times:
“Determining the best players in tennis seems a straightforward matter of consulting the rankings and the tournament results. Determining the best strokes in tennis remains a more subjective affair even with the recent growth in statistics and analytics. More than two dozen leading coaches, players and analysts were asked to list at least three top men and women in each category. Extra weight was given to those with firsthand experience. For example, Ivo Karlovic, one of the world’s best servers, seems particularly well qualified to determine top returners”
BEST FOREHAND
1. Rafael Nadal
2. Roger Federer
3. Juan Martín del Potro
4. Novak Djokovic
5. David Ferrer
BEST RETURN
1. Novak Djokovic
2. Andy Murray
3. David Ferrer
4. Tomas Berdych
5. Rafael Nadal
BEST PASSING SHOT
1. Rafael Nadal
2. Novak Djokovic
3. Andy Murray
4. Richard Gasquet
5. Lleyton Hewitt
BEST MENTAL GAME
1. Rafael Nadal
2. Novak Djokovic
3. Roger Federer
4. David Ferrer
5. Lleyton Hewitt
BEST MOVEMENT
1. Novak Djokovic
2. Rafael Nadal
3. Gaël Monfils
4. Andy Murray
5. Kei Nishikori
There were other categories but I have focused on the ones featuring rafa. CAN YOU SEE THIS? rafa has been voted to have the best forehand, best mental game , most endurance, best passing shots! I hope you can pay attention to the ROS category?
These are all OPINIONS. There is no stat to determine who has the passing shots, best movement etc! do you have stats?? I completely agree with the top rankings given to rafa! If someone comes out and says Wawrinka is a tougher player mentally, that would be a joke! but that person can say it is his/her opinion…well, thats how it is!
Similarly, many players, including rafa have said novak has the best return. Murray was one asked and he said Ferrer has the best followed by Novak. Wilander (I hate him too ),, Bruguera compiled a list of top 5 returners and they also had novak at the top but unsurprisingly, they had rafa and federer at the top when it came to the forehand category!
There are many other instances. Forget everything, we have our eyes to determine that. Rafa cannot have the best in every catergory! if that were the case, he would have won 30 slams. Everyone has limitations! that is very normal and that is why we have close rivalries.
And yeah, ,wawrinka is the best claycourter over the past 12 months! what is the problem here? he is not even in the top 5 of this generation though (IN MY OPINION ).
vamosrafa regarding my question above! who has better ROS IN YOUR OPINION!!!!!
agassi or djoker…..J-Mac says djoker…..
Mary Says: Stop being condescending and obnoxious.
After you Mary (age before beauty after all). 🙂
#Pot&KettleSyndrome
@amy,
that is a very tough call to make. It is a matter of opinion I guess. It is like choosing from rafa and roger’s forehands!
We can try to analyze.
Agassi was certainly a more high-risk returner and more aggressive. Based on observation, and on andre’s self-assessment , he very often used to guess and take aggressive swipes at difficult first serves! He was content to get aced but he hardly backed away from being aggressive. His second serve return was more lethal. He had more time and his court positioning was SO aggressive (more than novak’s). He was always comfortably inside the baseline to return even Sampras’s monster second serves and his return off both backhand and forehand was phenomenal. Backhand ROS was stronger though,
Novak is a relatively more high percentage returner. I would say he is a more versatile returner too. He certainly puts back into play more first serve returns. He does not take as many risks as andre used to do and he can bunt the ball back effectively, take aggressive swings at the ball and go for depth consistently. I think his biggest strength is to find such a great length on his return SO CONSISTENTLY. he is throwing balls at the feet of opponents and he does that with such consitency. His forehand ROS had weaknesses and rafa exploited that ! Now his forehand ROS has also improved.
besides, novak is more elastic and he has more reach. He does cover the slider out wide serves better than Andre used to ! I think agassi was a slightly more effective returner of second serve.
If I have to pick one, I would perhaps pick Novak because of his greater variety. But it is undeniable that when Andre was reading the serves he wanted to, he was the most destructive returner! so aggressive. It is suchhh a tough call to make.
Jimmy connors (an unorthodox returner) , Andy murray and David Ferrer are also phenomenal returners. Hewitt , Nalby, Davy also had fantastic ROS.
vamosrafa, wow, such a great analysis. i have such respect for your skills and knowledge as a tennis analyst! how long have you been watching for?
next time let’s talk about fed and rafa’s forehands! are these the best 2 ever..?they have to be in the mix if we are talking about GOAT forehands….
i remember after wimby 2008 Tignor commenting on how similar they looked that match both using a lot of topspin……
thanks amy 🙂 I only started following tennis like a fanatic 2005 onward because of Rafa! Before that, I just used to keep track of things. It was after 2005 that I watched more of older players, read loads and loads about them and listened to what they had/have to say. I am a young guy (25) so I do not have the vast experience that some other posters have. NNY, for instance, has seen so many different eras so that is a different experience altogether !
One more things about the ROS: Novak imparts a lot more spin on his strokes. It is hard to impart spin to abbreviated shots to return serves but when given the chance, novak puts spin on the ball. That is why his percentages are greater and this is fitting given the rackets and strings we now have. Andre was not a fan of putting too much spin ! he was more of a BOOM BOOM returner 😉
Haha, sure! I love to analyze so discussing federer and nadal’s forehands is fun. You are right, these two forehands are two of the best ever! So lucky to see them in my time 🙂
Nadal practicing at Wimble – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYuCLktKHj8
thanks Ricky!
vamosrafa, excellent! discussing this will be fun! i am off to bed now as am really shattered with lack of sleep but we can talk tomorrow or after and anyone else can join in! i am sure nny and others will have opinions (where are you chloro? do join in!)
more great analysis of djoker’s return! am gonna be looking out for the facets you have highlighted but yes of course that capacity to place the ball back deep time and time again is amazing…i remember at USO 2011 the ball was coming back like a cannonball at rafa’s feet. the third set of that match had perhaps the most amazing tennis EVER and rafa won it! (am sure his knee just gave out the next set as he just stopped running…such a shame….!)
thanks again……
no worries! thanks for your great inputs. The USO 2011 final’s 3rd set really was something! Rafa was a spent force come the final set and that was a pity. You are also right about novak’s ROS in that match. I was so frustrated! The consistency was astonishing.
Talk to you soon then!
vamosrafa has already announced Djokovic has the best ROS, soon he will announce Stan is the best clay courter! Ha ha!
Djokovic does have the best ROS IMO and Stan has the best clay court results in the last 12 months.
agree with hawkeye that djoker has the best ROS…..
Yeah, as if I am the first person in the world to say Novak has the best ROS.
I don’t need to make any announcements regarding Stan. He won the french open beating the best player of the clay court season heading into that final , so that makes him the best player on clay over the past 12 months. Rafa is the greatest ever on clay …he will clinch his 10th RG title too 😉
vamosrafa, how long will it be before you declare Stan the best claycourter?
what kind of question is this? But everything is normal because it is coming from you lol….so saying federer is the best grasscourter really hurt you I see… it is the truth so..
Well, stan is the best claycourt player over the past 12 months! the overall best claycourter, ahh we all know that pretty well ! He will remain so for God knows how many decades..may be forever?! who knows!
VR, nadline10 is trolling you ICYMI.
Great insightful Wimbly analysis BTW something that the two biggest Rafans at least in their own “minds”) are incapable of.
lol…. as I said, everything is normal 😉
amy,
Regarding your post @3:29 pm – well said. How can we trash Novak’s return. He has done a lot of damage in matches with Rafa, so how can we diss him without by extension dissing Rafa? This is what I just don’t understand. It reminds me of how Fed fans always trash Rafa, all the while not realizing that they are essentially trashing Fed!
vamosrafa,
Thanks for your great insights! As for anything being only opinions, some need to be reminded that we are ALL giving our opinions! It’s what we do on a forum! Sometimes people can back them up with stats or not. But the whole point is to have a discussion.
nny, am going mad becos my posts keep going awol. i just replied that yes it is so illogical. and then rafa has said repeatedly that djoker’s ros is incredible…….are we to ignore his own statements??
Your posts are still there
nny, sorry post below was in response to this at 3.41….
nny, ok i give up…all my posts keep going missing…hope you know which one i was replying to about ROS!
There is a lot of angst about the Wimby draw and Rafa’s possible opponents – in particular coming up against heavy-handed people who have had wins against him.
Firstly, only one ‘unexpected’ player (Fognini) has pulled off the feat twice and I would lay a large wager it won’t happen three times in a row. Secondly, looking at the context of those defeats, there had always been an explanation until this year: this is what has made it so unnerving for us – and we must assume also for Rafa and his team.
Theories of the cause and suggestions for tackling the crisis abound. IMO it has to be Rafa himself who solves the conundrum and releases his trademark will to win.
If, as we are assured, he is 100% fit then the sequence in which he faces potential dark horses or players catching fire should not significantly affect the outcome. If the will to win is there.
#WaitingForTheMiracle
Well it well indeed require a miracle if Rafa expects his almost two year sub par performance to change without Rafa realizing that doing the same thing over and over will make a difference.
Definition of insanity (not to mention OCD).
amy,
You are okay. Your posts are showing up. It’s all good! 🙂
nny, ah good…but some have disappeared completely!
i agree about stan now..AO was not a real slam win, after RG he is the real deal…..he should have beaten fed at wimby last year and can definitely beat both djoker and murray who he has now beaten twice each in slams…..
Thanks for today’s downer Hawkeye 🙁
I was trying to be a little ray of sunshine…………
As yourself and others here have said, he needs to take responsibility and decide for himself what changes are necessary assuming that he still has the motivation and desire to seriously compete for slams.
Wimbledon is virtually out for him this year in my opinion. USO is likely out as well.
Unfortunately, I have to agree. Just keeping it real for myself. I would love to see a miracle with Rafa winning Wimbledon. I just think he’s been too inconsistent and mentally vulnerable for it to happen. I would be very happy if I am wrong. 🙂
ed, the sun doesn’t for Rafa as far as some people are concerned.
last year rafa had a bad run playing some terrible nervy matches on the clay after AO – that cycle only started to come to an end when he beat Murray in Rome. that was a match which seemed to be yet another rafa horror-fest in the first set then he managed to will himself back into it and win. (that was the first time he’d done that against a top opponent for ages). the impetus that gave him allowed him his way back into his game so that he was able to win RG.
the question for me is is he able to do that again? because last year altho’ he got the fit of heebie jeebies he had also been playing at a very high level not that long before…now he hasn’t played at a high level since RG last year. that’s over a year! can he suddenly ‘become’ rafa again or has this situation just gone on too long and he now has to have real outside help??
quite frankly i would argue that even if he does suddenly get it together and ‘become’ rafa that he should be getting this outside help anyway as he is wasting so much time and energy battling his demons. but whether he can do it and how long, if he can, that will take? no-one knows……(alarmingly in march rafa was saying ‘i don’t know how long it will take…months, a year.. ‘ (a year!!!) No top sportsman or woman should be hanging around waiting for a year……
Yep, beyond clay and a 250 grass tourney, he hasn’t won anything in 20 months.
This drop in performance started long before the rash of injuries that plagued the latter part of 2014.
And you are right about his statement on a year. Very telling.
I’m pulling for anyone but Fed at Wimbly but if I had my choice, I’d pick one of Murray, Raonic and strangely, Wawrinka. Stan really made a believer out of me winning the French. It’s nice to know that he is for real and not just a one slam wonder only because Rafa was injured.
Stan is the Wimby dark horse for me. He will be in Federer’s half.
(and of course Rafa would be at the top, but just goes to show that I’ve already written him off in my mind).
why so sure that stan will be in fed’s half?? stan should have beaten fed last year….was on top and then imploded due to having to play consecutive matches and getting so upset with that as well as mirka-gate. he has to have a great chance to beat fed again…i can see stan beating either djoker or murray as well……
think milos is still too rusty to really be a threat..altho his serve is the business….is a hard worker to his credit…
the comments rafa makes about himself are terrifying….i try and store them in a safe place at the back of my mind but they jump out at me like my own demons…..
Simple deduction. Because he is ranked fourth and therefore can’t be in the same half as Nole and Andy.
The comments Rafa is making are quite true IMO, but extremely premature.
another post gone awol..
to the effect that yes self-evidently premature but if he can see their implications and choose not to act then …..??!!
June 23, 2015 at 12:49 pm,
—This drop in performance started long before the rash of injuries that plagued the latter part of 2014.—
============================
Rafa injured his back in January, during the warm-up of the AO final. He was suffering from that injury (facet syndrome) all year round.
Ohhhhhh the “suffering” lol.
(I heard he als had a hang nail and bird flu to boot.)
June 23, 2015 at 1:32 pm,
Oh! That’s a typical comment of Rafa’s enemy. (I have read this a zillion times on the Internet).
Agree regarding the massive boost rafa got after beating Murray in Rome last year. He certainly needs a big win to dispel the doubts that have plagued him all year!
Winning a couple of good matches with the right attitude is may be all that takes to turn things around. But hey, every time we think things are getting really better, rafa loses in a very bad manner! So not reasonable to have high expectations. Rafa is too erratic these days.
I think his game on grass was at a very good level! His serving was great, movement explosive, forehand steadier , backhand quite encouraging,
He just needs to improve his first serve returns a little and BE STRONG MENATALLY.
vr, i just left you yet another post which has gone awol.
so, was saying that i want rafa to play first strike tennis more, try and play more aggressively so that he is not always playing one more ball back…this puts him under too much pressure when he’s fried mentally….
needs to do more with ROS especially…
true, I was saying the same when he was playing Dolgo. He should keep working hard to shorten the points and credit to rafa he really has done that over the years but he now needs that more than ever! His volley-ing skills are extraordinary. If he spends more time at the net and perhaps plays a few more doubles matches to sharpen his reflexes, he can be very effective at the net.
One thing I am sure of is that employing serve-and-volley on grass will bring him more success! He should employ S&V more often on the Ad court and sometimes on the deuce court too. Net play is something he is quite capable of improving and he might need it more than ever. However, we know he is a baseliner by heart and that is the foundation of his game! He will only perform consistently well in other areas when his baseline game is in place.
I liked rafa’s backhand ROS off second serves in stuttgart and queens . He should work a little more on his forehand ROS off second serves . His forehand return is not so conducive to grass courts as the swings are not compact. He did learn to shorten them but can struggle against great servers.
It is the return off FIRST serves that can get him in trouble on grass. During the first week, he has struggled in Wimby and this is one reason. However, this time he has had a lot more practice so he might be able to read big serves better. He was clueless on krygios’s first serves last year and admitted he could not get a read. Not his fault primarily but he can do a little better.
great analysis as always vamosrafa….
i was so disappointed with rafa’s ros against kyrgios last year…..milos did better and his ros is not exactly his strength!
i really want rafa to do some more work in this area….also he needs to attack weak second serves when he gets them much more consistently and aggressively…his habit of just putting the ball back in play and then rallying (which is that of a clay-courter’s) needs to change.
agree with you about how great he is at net..J-Mac has said better than Fed at volleying…he has such great touch and i also would like to see him move up the court as much as possible when he has a chance….
also, he has got to move forward not stay right at the back of the court to be able to hit his incredible passing shots…..
in a characteristic fit of stupidity i have just posted without filling in my details so the comment will come through as anonymous…as opposed to yesterday when it was the site mangling me…
so the next anon post should be me….assuming it hasn’t just disappeared…..
vamosrafa,
Thanks again for breaking it all down. Rafa was done in last year at Wimbledon by his inability to read the serve of Kyrgios. He said as much after the match.
I do want to see Rafa doing some serve and volleying, but we know that his core game is baseline. He can still try to incorporate some serve and volleys, keeping the points short and his opponents off balance. He has such skill at the net, great hands. Grass is the surface where being aggressive can really pay off.
amy,
I agree with you about Rafa attacking weak second serves more aggressively. There are times when he’s got a few break points and some second serves, but he doesn’t do much with his ROS. I also agree that Rafa must commit to moving into the court to get the advantage and be able to dictate points.
One thing I wanted to add about Stan. I haven’t been a believer, but now that he won RG by taking out both Fed and Novak, I am revising my opinion. I also said previously here that I did not think he is one of the favorites for Wimbledon. Now I am wondering. I still won’t give him favorite status yet. But he’s now #4 and will get a much better draw than if he was still ranked #8 or #9, wherever he was before he won RG.
I still think it’s Murray, Fed and Novak. But I am not ruling out the possibility of a darkhorse! 🙂
Amy: Have you followed Gussie’s tutorial – you should stay logged in if you have un
lol. I have the opposite problem. If I hover over the ‘post comment’ key for more than two seconds to proof read what I’ve written it posts itself before I can correct my howlers.
Was about to say………. unless you are in the habit of clearing your caches in which case you may have to log back on by hitting the ‘W’ to use your WordPress account.
ed i have replied to you twice, twice the posts went awol..!!!!
amy,
Did you follow the instructions from augusta? Are you signing in with wordpress?
not yet but i guess i will have to try….i tend to have multiple windows open and also constantly get rid of cookies so that may be difficult….
I too keep lots of windows open. Gets me into trouble quite often and is sometimes the cause of messages going missing. Do you use Mac?
We must learn to be more disciplined.
PS: re ‘chump’. This is one of those words which have changed meaning over the years.
My grandmother used it all the time – almost as an endearment if I was being silly or careless as a child.
ed, no use windows…..i will try augusta’s excellent advice…i didn’t sleep last night so didn’t want to try in case i did something bonkers…!
i blame rafa for my lack of sleep and the nervous wreck he has made me into!
‘chump’ is fine…..! i like words with good sounds…!
Losing sleep over Rafa? You serious? Cmon that is taking it too far no?
good god sanju! that was a joke!!!! sorry, surely is is obvious i am being ironic!
I hope it was. Though you do stress a lot . Rafa needs to pay you part of his prize money for all the trouble he gives you :-). Just joking 🙂
of course it was! honestly!……i was really irritated by your saying i get so stressed or is that you proving your own case?! is a bit odd given that i have spent some days on here saying pretty much nothing which wasn’t taking the piss or being ironic….
vamosrafa says:
June 23, 2015 at 4:57 pm
Anyway, I usually use facts and stats but some things are simply subjective and tennis fans through their years of experience of watching the game can easily ‘see’ them. Novak has the best ROS of this generation IMO , very closely followed by Murray and Ferrer.
**************************************
So you don’t let the facts get in the way of your prejudices? Putting Rafa down is a favourite pastime of some people, not giving him credit where credit is due even when the prejudices fly in the face of the stats. You could hardly expect Rafa to say he was better than anyone at ROS, now, could you? Rafa always says Fed is the best in history then promptly beats him.
Troll-lol-lol-lol
(I sing a happy tune.)
even though it is a troll post, I will respond anyway.
So do you have stats to determine who has the best ROS (not return game)? there are NO facts! yeah, so conveniently you ignored the list compiled by Newyork Times. Do you have stats/facts to show rafa has the best forehand? the best mental game? the best passing shots? NO ! I do not need facts to ascertain that rafa has the best passing shots, the best mental game etc and two dozen coaches, players, experts agree and so do millions around the world except for hater Fedbots who will not tolerate seeing rafa’s name. Similarly, you being a hater of rafa’s rival, cannot bear to see novak being at the top of that ROS category! HA HA.
“You could hardly expect Rafa to say he was better than anyone at ROS”
LOL…what absurd logic! before their final in madrid this year, rafa said andy has a superior backhand but he (rafa) has a better forehand! He was analyzing the match. Rafa would NEVER say novak’s forehand is better than his! he is not delusional like you are. He can see things very clearly.
Troll-like and constantly aggressive behavior thrives (June 23, 2015 at 7:18 and at 8:45). pm).
yeah…analyzing the game is troll-like behavior… lol…
June 23, 2015 at 8:59 pm,
Is it ‘analyzing the game’ at 7:18 and at 8:45 pm? OMG!
okay , great. As always, you are right. end it now….
Vr, don’t keep accusing others of trolling. Look into a mirror. You will see that the nice guy who used to post here is now metamorphosing into a troll. There are stats about ROS. Have you heard of ATP match facts? Go verify them. Do not assume in your arrogance that only you know the difference between return games and ROS. Others here are not idiots. Your username bearing the name of rafa who is humility personified no longer suits you. Maybe you should change it to AjdeDjoker or AllezFed or maybe wawaStan all of whom have exhibited behavior more in tune with your current behaviour.
How’s about Confused Mary since we’re suggesting names.
As per the seedings, rafa will be drawn to face either Kei, or Milos or Ferrer or Berdych in the 4th rnd. I hope it is Ferrer….
I think rafa will play at a high level at Wimby this year. What remains to be seen is how well he can cope with nerves and whether he can have belief to succeed in key moments. Best of 5 sets format will give him more ‘colm’ .
Rafa better play very aggressively and serve at least as well as he did in Stuttgart and Queens…
May God keep the big hitters and servers away from Rafa in the earlier rounds…
Probably no need to worry about whom Rafa might play in the FOURTH round
Rafa could face Nole or Murray in the 4th round assuming he makes it that far.
Ooops disregard.
I think it will be Milos.
Hawkeye, the top 4 get the luxury of not facing seeds 9-12 in the 4th rnd (they randomly face seeds 13-16)… seeds 5-8 face seeds 9-12 in rnd 4 so that is why rafa cannot meet Novak or Murray in the 4th rnd….
His possible fourth rnd opponents are Kei, Milos, Ferrer, Berdych. If he reaches the 4th rnd, he will be in a good position to beat all of these guys but except for Ferrer , all three are formidable 4th rnd opponents.
It will only be in the qtr finals that rafa will face either one of the top 4 guys .
The biggest concern right now is to survive the first three rounds…
Ricky, you think rafa will not be able to make it past the third round?
I would have to see the draw, but id put it at less than 50-50 right now
Yep figured that out hence my disregard post. Thanks.
True, we have to worry more about whom Rafa will meet in the first round. So in the first round my prediction: Rafa will meet Rosol! Or a young gun like Coric or Kokkinakis (4k). Although I have a good feeling about this Wimbledon, I really don’t care whom Rafa meets. If he is inconsistent like before, he will lose early. If he is consistent like he was in his better days, it doesn’t matter whom he faces unless it is Andy Murray. I think if Rafa is in good form only Andy Murray in good form can beat him. Not Djoker or Federer or Stan (the current goat!!!!!). I stand by my earlier stated opinion that when Rafa is in good form, Stan is not an issue. I base my opinion on the fact that Stan could not even win a set before a physically hampered Rafa played him at AO. Stan’s game matches up well with Djoker’s, he can be almost a kryptonite. But not with Rafa. When Rafa’s forehand ( fearhand) is working, Stan is not an issue.
Risky..you are just too dismissive of Rafa ALL THE TIME.
Why VR? I thought it will be any of the Top 8 right? Is it sure only 5-8 seeds face 9-12 in round 4?
Sanju, yes bro! I am sure. Only seeds 5-8 are drawn to face seeds 9-12 so Rafa will not be facing the top 4 in round 4
Kei was injured so not sure how he will fare at Wimby. Milos is a very good pick to reach at least the 4th rnd and so are Ferrer and Berdy. Anyway, the draw is not out yet and the bigger concern is regarding getting big servers in the first couple of matches.
Yes, good point about Kei possibly being injured with that taped calf. We don’t know how he will do at Wimby. That remains to be seen. He’s got a bit of time to try to work it out. Raonic should have a good shot on the grass.
The key is avoiding those big servers in the early rounds this time. Last year he had one after another. The draw will tell us more.
vamosrafa,
I’ve been out and wasn’t able to participate in the discussion. I just wanted to say thanks for your analysis and thoughts. I also appreciate you posting the rankings of player’s best shots by those experts. That is the closest thing we have to an objective assessment.
What I don’t understand is why the ROS and return service game are being confused here repeatedly ROS is the first shot that is hit to return serve. The return service game is how often a player can win a game on return. Rafa’s first shot, his ROS, is not his strongest. But for Rafa the key is to get into the rally so that he can then use his other considerable skills, i.e. forehand I/O, DTL. CC and also his backhand CC and DTL. His superior groundstrokes are what win him so many return games.
Novak has the best ROS, of course IMO. As you mentioned, there are many others who agree. It’s his ability to get his racket on the ball and hit a first strike winner return. There are times when I watch him get his racket on serves that would have been aces against any other player. I enjoyed reading your comparison of Novak and Agassi’s ROS. You are right! It’s hard to choose between them.
Thank you for mentioning me as someone who is old enough to have seen decades of tennis and the greatest players of all time. I was fortunate to grow up watching the great Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall, Roy Emerson, John Newcombe, Pancho Gonzales and then Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Lendl all the way up to Sampras and Agassi.
It’s given me a good perspective on this sport. Watching the game progress and develop over the decades has been quite remarkable..
Finally, you do not have a prejudiced bone in your whole body. Sorry if I am embarrassing you, but I just had to say it! 🙂
Truly it is amazing how vr has fallen. He refuses to face stats or facts! On all surfaces Ferrer and Rafa lead, on hard court Andy Murray leads for 1st serve return points. On 2nd serve return on all surfaces, again Ferrer and Rafa lead but on hard, Andy and Djoker lead but the difference is just 1%. So claiming one’s opinion is all that matters and that others do not know the difference between return game and return of serve is the height of arrogance (or ignorance).
Mary is still confused.
hawkeye doesn’t know the difference between ROS and return game and more alarming the difference between facts and fantasies. Anyway, confused hawkeye, I do not want to intrude into your world where you probably recite mantras involving “bots” and “confused” and “hilarious” over and over again. What was the diagnosis some of the amateur doctors here made of Rafa’s propensity to repeat certain acts over and over again before serving? Watch out, they might foist the same diagnosis on you because you repeat the same words over and over again??
Anyway, I did not come to this site to be attacked by trolls like native or hawkeye or vr but to take part in tennis discussions. So I won’t get side tracked again into responding to troll attacks. If vr thinks my opinion is a joke, good for him. At least I made him and his doting admirers laugh. My good deed for the day.
very few tennis fans understand the difference between ROS and return game, to be honest
vr has his fan club who delight in his negative comments against Rafa. His pen name is a disguise for a Rafa detractor because he hardly ever says anything complimentary about the player he is supposed to support even when it flies in the face of the stats.
Turn you shouldn’t attack then.:)
This is too funny lol… a new poster with the same venom for rafa fans who are realistic and can be critical of rafa’s game when analyzing…. too funny.. i wonder what the trolls ‘VT, native, hawkeye’ have done to make confused Mary so angry ! haha..
nadline is back with loyalty barometer. VR still qualifies as a firm rafa detractor in her barometer 😛
Ricky understands the difference between return game and ROS. Assuming, you don’t think Ricky is a troll like VR , I am going to put this question at Ricky right here :
Ricky, what is your top 4 list of best ROS in tennis ?
Your answer will be much appreciated
Nothing can be predicted about Rafa. His being upbeat means nothing. Champions are notoriously in denial about their decline. But somehow I have good feelings about this year’s wimbledon for Rafa. Maybe it is just triumph of hope over (our past) experience. Also we are in another weak era, this time dominated by Djoker, unless Andy can save the day…But weak era gives hope to me because even if Rafa is old, he still can win slams as the next gen is the ” lost gen ” as rightly named by somebody in another forum.
Maybe vr should just decide the outcome of matches according to what he ‘sees’ not what happens on court. I have never heard such arrogant remarks in all my life.
Those who put Rafa down feel they have a divine right to do so and those of us who defend him are trolls.
If you defend him by trolling…
hahahaha… I have ‘defended’ rafa a 100 times more than you ever have…you actually have no clue how to ‘defend’ rafa… we clearly remember you well you used to defend rafa in the face of attacks on rafa by haters like torres9 and chr18 ..
nadline, you still have not posted an answer to my post. Do you have stats for deciding who has the best forehand, passing shots, mental game , movement, etc? Please help us ignorant fans 😉
Mary..I like your sense of humour. It is witty . I enjoy reading your posts. I was smiling at your subtle sarcastic replies today 🙂
However VR is anything but a Rafa hater and he never puts Rafa down. I think he is very optimistic about Rafa, so much so that after reading few of his posts, I feel..there he goes jumping the gun too early about Rafas good form and every single time this year Rafa has flattered only to deceive.
Cmon nobody is a troll here..Everyone has their own way of supporting Rafa..Live and let live. Let me give my analysis and frankly I don’t dislike any poster here.
nadline, augusta – hardcore Rafa supporters, wont hear a word negative about him and will admonish anyone and everyone who does.
VR – objective and optimistic but balanced
NNY & ed – Rational, non abusive and balanced
RITB ( yes I have not forgotten you) – Hopeful fan and always tries to get her mood optimistic about Rafa though deep down she may have her doubts and I am always scared when she says Rafa will win a tournament because invariably Rafa loses that (:-
haweye – Anti jinx all the time 😉
amy – Most stressed..Jesus I cant believe how much u stress over Rafa. Take a chill pill.
Natashao – Again one of my favs..balanced..optimistic ..where is your subconscious mind power natashao? Hardly see you referring to it these days.
Shireling – One I fear ..The minute he/she comes and tells here that he/she fears a match result, I see it as a bad omen 🙂
Myself – Never confident of Rafa delivering, hold his opponents too high but still love Rafa a lot and always want him to succeed.
Bravo Sanju!
As the most incorrigible jinxer of all time I’m glad you recognise Hawkeye as one too.
But you left out Chloro – one of the wise stalwarts from way back (circa 2008) usually on the serious but has been known to join in with witty contributions e.g. delivering the weather report at opportune moments.
ed (at 7:36)
It’s his true self-description:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIQEjrcUwAAGbbf.png
Correction: ed (at 7:36) ➡ ed (at 7:06 am)
You took my post out of context.
Nothing new.
Nice post sanju.
Thanks hawkeye
Thank you sanju.You are one of my favorite posters. I agree with most of what you wrote. But native… She is a master manipulator! Makes other people fight her battles. Be wary when she springs to your defense! She also doesn’t know the difference between rolling ranking and race points but is in total denial.
Hawkeye is very witty and I used to like his posts before he became a bore posting pictures of Fed endlessly. Hope he gets over his troll phase and becomes the great poster he used to be.
ed is very insightful and witty. Don’t know why she feels the need to be defensive about her Andy fandom.
rafaisthebest is another wonderful poster. By the way, she had announced she is black way back on tennistalk.
nadline and augusta are loyal Rafa fans. Extremists!!! nadline is like a tigress defending her young if anyone says anything remotely negative about Rafa!!! But I love her too.
Mary says:
June 24, 2015 at 3:25 pm,
—Hawkeye is very witty and I used to like his posts before he became a bore posting pictures of Fed endlessly. Hope he gets over his troll phase and becomes the great poster he used to be—
=================================
.
His troll phase started more than a year ago. 😆
Well at least my “troll phase” is just a phase. Haven’t seen much else from you since you arrived here, what, a whole week now?
Hilarious!!!
Whereas augusta08’s troll phase began when she fell off the edge after discovering her false God.
Couldn’t care less who the pundits (and anyone else) are picking to win Wimby, I’m picking Rafa.
Rafa will win Wimbledon 2015, 3rd Wimby, Slam #15, putting himself within striking distance of the so called Holy Grail……………#17, TMF.
He is healthy, he is motivated, nobody gives him a chance………what’s not to like?
#Stealth
#Vamos
Exactly. It’s about time we start backing Rafa and not just be fair weather fans.
^^^^ @6.24am
Go for it gal. Sock it to ’em.
I think he will surpass many people’s expectations but I’m not sufficiently bullish to place a bet on him biting on that trophy.
http://www.stevegtennis.com/2015/06/5-intriguing-rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic-battles-that-have-defined-their-careers/
Good article but how could they miss 2013 SF French?
The article, June 22, 2015 by Shyam Sundar
—Queen Sofia of Spain congratulated Nadal in the locker room after winning his second US Open crown.—
===============================
Mr. Shyam Sundar, there’s nothing extraordinary about that. The King of Spain attended the RG final & congratulated Rafa after winning it already 2005. Since then, the members of the Spanish royal family (mostly King or Queen) have attended all the RG finals if Rafa has played. They have also watched&congratulated Rafa at Wimbledon.
And Queen Sophia cheered Rafa at the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
vamosrafa used to be a Rafa fan, hence his nickname but he has changed his mind and is now more impressed with Djoker. Instead of owning up and admiting that Rafa no longer lives up to his expectations, he still poses as a Rafa fan but hardly ever has anything complimentary to say about him.
Now who is trolling?
Gosh this is getting annoying now lol… okay okay we get it that VR is a troll and a rafa detractor. Why repeat it after every 10 posts :O
She is hoping to stop you from posting here is why.
Have you seen this petition posted on Rafa’s thread by augusta? I sincerely hope the AT/ITF take note.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/time-limits-for-tennis-players-time-for-a
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIQTq4dXAAE8ou9.png
i know it’s no use crying over split milk but tennis is run like a village club. Why only Wimbledon give any credit to past performance. The nine time champion at RG was given any marks for that he had to play the #1 seed in the QF!
Had it not been for Rafa I would look for another hobby.
Because there are so few grass tournaments compared to clay but a very small remnant of you knew that already.
hawkeye,
You got right to the heart of things in your post @1:01 pm! That’s what it’s all about! But it’s not going to work! 🙂
corr:
The nine time champion at RG wasn’t given any marks for that he had to play the #1 seed in the QF!
Why weren’t you complaining about this BEFORE Nole beat him?
#TimeToMoveOn
Of course I complained when he was seeded 5 on his comeback in 2013.
By the way, speaking of the 1st serve return POINTs won (not ROS, not Return Games won), Rafa has a higher win percentage (career & 2015) than Djoko:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIQvw2PWgAA-t71.png
(I’ll continue in Reply)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIQwC13WoAAaRiN.png
Careful. This is partially because of Rafa’s playing 250s and getting eliminated in earlier rounds therefore on average playing lower ranked players.
An interesting stat to look at ROS is the percentage of time a player is “aced” but it’s not great (would be better if it included service winners).
I show it here to prove my point about the average ranking of opponents.
This is a great site for tennis stats…
http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/leaders.cgi?f=s00w1
I’ve sorted this table by how often a player is aced over the last 52 weeks.
Monfils is aced the least often however the median/mean ranking of his opponents is 39/50.
Murray is next impressive at 5.1% with opponents rank median/mean of 29/49.
Rafa is 12th at 5.9% but his opponents mean/median rank is just 54/81.
Nole is 19th at 6.9% but his opponents mean/median rank is 21/36. So on average, he is playing higher calibre players than Rafa so he gonna get aced more.
Remember ROS is an opinion.
There are lies, damn lies and statistics.
Careful how you use them.
Thanks augusta. ‘vamosrafa’ is wrong. This proves that ‘vamosrafa’ is just prejudiced against Rafa. He absolutely idolizes Djoker so he sees what he wants to see through his rose tinted glasses.
ah, now this is a good post! thanks hawkeye. I like the way you are bringing in other aspects!
I don’t personally think that measuring aces is a good way of evaluating ROS (as you your said as well) , but service winners would be a better indicator.
the point of facing higher ranked players if also good! this is called ANALYZING
Another measure could be to find the average length on returns ! I have never seen such a stat but this would be really interesting. They know show the RPMs on the ball so I hope they can some day show this too!
@nadline continues to run away!! hahahaha
nadline knows when she is outmatched and painted into a corner (you know, that spot where Nole so often places his returns).
^ hahahahahha
Yep, aware of that. He is very adept at sending the ball back into play and when in top form, with great lenght too. Once he has the ball back in play, there has been no player in the history of tennis who can turn defense into offense the way rafa has done in his career. If federer hits a short return, the opponent attacks , he won’t be able to defend as well as rafa can! Djokovic’s defense is incredible but he cannot match rafa’s passing shots esp off the forehand wing!
Indeed. It doesn’t address the quality (such as depth or placement) on the return.
My main point was about how stats can be skewed.
Very dangerous in the hands where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing (or in the hands of a politician, rabid fan, what have you.
vamosrafa, stats are no good to you. You have decided that your subjective views take priority to reality so I will leave you and your fans to bask in your wisdom.
great…can you give an example where ‘ stats are no good for me’? Please do this ….waiting… the frequency with which you are claiming this, it appears you’d have a dozen examples so waiting …
There can be exceptions…like I have made strong cases for rafa being the best of this generation even with 12-14 slams to his name when the statistical leader , federer, has 17 slams !
Very keen to know WHICH instances you are whining about
It would be more appropriate to change your nick to asjiedjoko.
as usual, no answers… still waiting….everyone’s watching nadline, here is your chance to expose me LOL…at least try…
It would be more appropriate to change your nick to adjiedjoko.
this is proper trolling now LOL…
so it is pretty clear…. If you can find an instance, or your buddies can, I am here !
“vamosrafa, stats are no good to you. You have decided that your subjective views take priority to reality” … waiting for a couple of examples ! 😉
So it can be strong inferred that nadline, who just wants to find facts and stats about everything , thinks Federer is the GOAT! Afterall, stats are there then why focus on any other aspect like the weak era. 302 weeks at no.1, 17 slams, and a dozen more unparalled ‘stats’ …
This is what nadline wants everyone to believe LOL
vr, you qualified as a genuine Rafan per my barometer way back on TennisTalk but since Rafa’s frequent injuries resulting in the fall of his performance you have turned into a Rafa critic which means that you are a fair weather fan.
You still have not answered a single question from yesterday! you keep dodging them …tch tch tch..
And we don’t need your barometer assessments, you may declare yourself the winner as per your barometer, we have no issues,
By the way, I analyze rafa’s play apart from supporting him. When he was winning 3 slams in a year, he was not putting a foot wrong and his rivals were not even close to him! 2011 onward, things obviously have changed or are you haven’t been able to see that change? Rafa is no longer the dominant force he was in 2010! So fans , analysts, writers analyze the situation! Of course there are a lot of things rafa is not doing well as he only has won two 250 titles in 2015! Rafa has been analyzing his losses and so has Uncle TOni! so why not the fans?!!!
Uncle Toni has been often critical of rafa’s game whenever he has underperformed so Toni is a rafa detractor ??? Gosh, rafa has a coach who is a rafa detractor!!
Rafa still has the level of tennis needed to win slams on clay as well as on other surfaces BUT he NEEDS to do things better. I, along with many other, including rafa’s coach and rafa himself, will keep analyzing what he is not doing well and what his rivals are doing well!!
So now you equate yourself with Rafa’s coach. Lol
June 24, 2015 at 12:03 pm
—Uncle Toni has been often critical of rafa’s game whenever he has underperformed so Toni is a rafa detractor ??? —
===========================================
U.Toni has been bashed more than once by some posters here.
Nopes, Read again :
“I, along with many other, including…” ‘along with many others’ refers to ALL the fans like me (there are quite a lot , actually) , who simply try to analyze rafa’s game !
@augusta, please stay on the topic 🙂
June 24, 2015 at 12:28 pm,
What??? The TOPIC of this article is: “Queen’s Club QF previews and picks: Murray vs. Muller, Isner vs. Troicki.”
And why I mention Djokovic more than before? That is because he is the undisputed no.1 player in the world right now!
“He’s the best player of the world without any doubt today,” Nadal said (before the French open)
Uncle Toni has also said this a 1000 times but here is something unexpected he said :
“Rafael has won more titles than Novak Djokovic, but speaking merely about tennis and about the game, Rafa has to be considered slightly lower than Djokovic. The Serb is such a good player that he is as close as you can get to Roger Federer”.
now wait wait wait wait WAIT, what did Toni say?! he said Rafa is ‘slightly lower than Djokovic’ overall?! I have my disagreements with Toni here (but I understand his viewpoint and the context he is talking in ), but that is not important, what is important is that TONI IS THE BIGGEST RAFA DETRACTOR AS PER NADLINE’S BAROMETER!!
Rafa should immediately sack Toni!! Nadline’s barometer reads he is a rafa detractor!!
this is one example. Toni is known to criticize rafa A LOT! Actually, he is a great student of the sport and he is quite honest about his assessments. He is in no delusion and so is rafa! This is why rafa has always been so self-aware, it is due to Toni’s assessments.
Some other examples ….. *Toni really is a detractor ACCORDING TO NADLINE’S BAROMETER*
Below is an article dated 09/02/2011
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/02/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic_n_946561.html
While Toni was quick to point out that Rafa is still the second ranked player in the world, he is also realistic about the current challenge the Spaniard is facing.
“Djokovic is better than us.” he said.
“[Djokovic] runs better; his mentality is stronger; and he has changed little things in his game,” Nadal said. “He’s playing without many mistakes. He is more compact. Before, Djokovic was a wonderful player, but sometimes he made some mistakes. Now the head is very, very strong. [Rafa] thinks he is the best player in the world right now.”
Toni, nadline’s barometer sees you as a pure rafa detractor!! WHAT DO YOU DO!!
nadline, Should Toni join Djokovic’s team or should he be nicknamed adjiedjoko HAHAHAHA
No rafan on tenngrand has ever praised djokovic the way Toni has done over the years and he does that at the cost of putting rafa down!! Toni has to be the biggest rafa detractor AS PER NADLINE’S CRITERIA.
June 24, 2015 at 12:25 pm,
—-here is something unexpected he [Uncle Toni] said :
“Rafael has won more titles than Novak Djokovic, but speaking merely about tennis and about the game, Rafa has to be considered slightly lower than Djokovic. The Serb is such a good player that he is as close as you can get to Roger Federer”.
now wait wait wait wait WAIT, what did Toni say?!—-
==============================================
.
This qute is from old articles (Nov. 2014).
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Toni-Novak-Djokovic-a-Better-Player-Than-Rafael-Nadal-And-Federer-articolo21423.html
Toni spoke on a local radio show on Spain and people who listened to him say that this is not what Toni said. (I’ll post in Reply what he said)
June 24, 2015 at 12:25 pm,
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIRI2fBXAAAnW4O.png
okay thanks … so this was in spanish. Anyway, ‘fed is better than rafa due to the titles he has won. There is no discussion’ …novak having quality/same heights of federer! in terms of game, toni does not know!
such a detractor Toni is, nadline! right?! REfuses to give rafa any credit haha
Augusta, there is nothing lost in translation in the article that dates back to 2011 🙂 right?
June 24, 2015 at 1:28 pm,
—Augusta, there is nothing lost in translation in the article that dates back to 2011 🙂 right?—
========================
I haven’t read your post.
Here it is again!
Some other examples ….. *Toni really is a detractor ACCORDING TO NADLINE’S BAROMETER*
Below is an article dated 09/02/2011
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/02/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic_n_946561.html
While Toni was quick to point out that Rafa is still the second ranked player in the world, he is also realistic about the current challenge the Spaniard is facing.
“Djokovic is better than us.” he said.
“[Djokovic] runs better; his mentality is stronger; and he has changed little things in his game,” Nadal said. “He’s playing without many mistakes. He is more compact. Before, Djokovic was a wonderful player, but sometimes he made some mistakes. Now the head is very, very strong. [Rafa] thinks he is the best player in the world right now.”
Toni, nadline’s barometer sees you as a pure rafa detractor!! WHAT DO YOU DO!!
nadline, Should Toni join Djokovic’s team or should he be nicknamed adjiedjoko HAHAHAHA
No rafan on tenngrand has ever praised djokovic the way Toni has done over the years and he does that at the cost of putting rafa down!! Toni has to be the biggest rafa detractor AS PER NADLINE’S CRITERIA.
Toni also called the French spectators stupid:
“They say it themselves and it’s true, the Parisian crowd is pretty stupid. I think the French don’t like it when a Spaniard wins,” he added. “Wanting someone to lose is a slightly conceited way of amusing yourself. They show the stupidity of people who think themselves superior.”
And Rafa:
“This tournament is so important, such a beautiful tournament for me. Well, that’s the way it is,” he said. “But I wish when I’m back they can support me a bit more in key moments.”
I guess they are detractors too according to @nadline10.
June 24, 2015 at 1:56 pm
—Toni also called the French spectators stupid:
“They say it themselves and it’s true, the Parisian crowd is pretty stupid. I think the French don’t like it when a Spaniard wins,” he added. “Wanting someone to lose is a slightly conceited way of amusing yourself. They show the stupidity of people who think themselves superior.”
And Rafa:
“This tournament is so important, such a beautiful tournament for me. Well, that’s the way it is,” he said. “But I wish when I’m back they can support me a bit more in key moments.”—
============================
OMG! OMG! You repeated it again!
It was in 2009 (!), 6 years ago, after the hooligan-Fedfans booed Rafa when he lost to Sod.
It is your made up story and/or lie (to use your lingo) that it was hooligan-Fedfans.
But then again, you don’t feel the need to judge yourself the way you judge others.
Hilarious!!!
I’m glad it’s not long now till the Wimby draw comes out and there is something for everybody to get their teeth into.
Meanwhile ‘the devil seems to be finding work for idle hands…….’ 🙂
Why not watch some tennis instead. e.g. Nottingham or Boodles?
ed, you gotta tell that to those who cannot tolerate tennis discussions involving rafa’s rivals and start giving loyalty points as per their ‘barometer’ …. LOL
My credit rating as a Rafa fan was destroyed a long time ago when I owned up to also liking and admiring Andy. 😉
ed (at 12:41 pm),
—Why not watch some tennis instead. e.g. Nottingham or Boodles?—
======================
I have tried, but it’s boring. 🙂
vamosrafa, I am not dodging your request for stats but the ATP website doesn’t have ROS stats atm so we have to wait until the new site is complete. I do remember a couple of years ago, Rafa did top the list for % of points won on ROS and that’s all you can measure.
gosh! HOW can the atp measure the quality of ROS?!! they can only tell who won how many points!! RE-READ THIS:
‘Yep, aware of that. He is very adept at sending the ball back into play and when in top form, with great lenght too. Once he has the ball back in play, there has been no player in the history of tennis who can turn defense into offense the way rafa has done in his career. If federer hits a short return, the opponent attacks , he won’t be able to defend as well as rafa can! Djokovic’s defense is incredible but he cannot match rafa’s passing shots esp off the forehand wing!’
You are still dodging other questions! on what basis do fans including me and you say rafa has the best passing shots, best footwork, best mental game, best forehand ??! do you have stats for it??? either you MUST be having stats to back these up or you are extremely confused !
And what about the posts regarding uncle Toni? your barometer says he is the biggest detractor! LOL
Let’s settle this once and for all so that these futile arguments are not made in the future…such a waste of time…
Co
Gnitive
Dis
Sonance
How
I
Love
Thee
How
You
Keep
Me
Comfy
vamosrafa, you realize that you are tackling the Fox News of tennis here.
But you are just the Jon Stewart equivalent needed to show how ridiculous their baseless attacks are.
Bravo!
Funny how pundits ritually write Rafa off these days and then proceed to wail and gnash their teeth about his low seeing at Slams posing a threat to top seeds! Make up your minds people! Is he or is he not a threat?
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/24/wimbledon-draw-2015
Wouldn’t it be ironic if he meets Djokovic in the 4th round and takes him out, considering what happened at the FO with Novak being top dog and all?
Rafa cannot meet Djokovic in rnd 4. He will be drawn to face either Kei, or Milos, or Ferrer or Berdych .
I’ll rephrase that…
Wouldn’t it be ironic if he meets Djokovic in whatever round and takes him out, considering what happened at the FO with Novak being top dog and all?
Forget about who Rafa played or didn’t play. Take Rafa out of it; Nole is 19th, no where near #1 as ‘adjienole’ would like to believe.
Haha
As I said, dangerous in the hands of a blind and rabid fan.
Case in point.
Thanks for doing my work for me @nadline10.
Too funny.
hahahaha the EXACT same thing happened!! cannot get better than this! LOL
She never fails to disappoint.
Fail. Fail again. Fail better.
nadline10 should have that tattooed on her forehead to warn others.
Verdasco and Fognini are playing now at Boodles
Quite right Gussie, Querrey is a mighty yawn at any time. He not only looks like a ventriliquist’s dummy he is about as interesting as one.to watch on court.
Verdasco and Fognini have just started their match at Boodles.
vr and other trolls have failed to prove Djoker has the best ROS. hawkeye has suggested vr be renamed confused Mary. I like that. I am sharp Mary. VR is confused Mary.
I really do not care about Rafa’s seeding if he is not 1 or 2. If he is not playing well, he will be out in the early rounds (last 3 years) . If he is playing well, the top seeds have to worry about meeting him in the early rounds. Irrespective of his seeding or form, Rafa is vulnerable to serve bots in the early rounds. I remember in 2010, Rafa was projected to meet Isner in some round. I was worried about that match. Then Isner-Mahut happened and I knew that Rafa was destined to win the trophy that year. And he did.
I amend the previous post to read ….”if he is not top 4″.
I agree. If Rafa is playing well he can beat anyone if he isn’t then it doesn’t matter about the seeding. Rafa is not the only one vulnerable to big servers. Raonic is the only one he’s lost to, once, in about 13 matches in total against Karlovic, Isner and Raonic. Even the match he lost to Raonic was after squandering a match point.
“Can” beat anyone? Don’t you mean “wil”l beat anyone? When has Rafa ever lost when he has played well?
Going soft @nadline10…. (or are your true colours beginning to show).
nadline, on grass, in the first week, everyone is vulnerable to servebots. Let us hope they are all packed into Djokovic’s half of his Quarter as he is supposed to be having the best ROS as per certain posters here.
No one said it can be proven. No one has claimed it is a fact.
Hence your suggested name Confused Mary which is being very kind. Obnoxious Mary or My-Rules-Only-Apply-To-Others Mary are possibilities to consider.
Only facts matter, the rest is just whistling in the wind.
This is true. It’s interesting that even though we say this again and again, it’s not getting through! I wonder why! 🙂
If only facts matter, then that must be a fact. Prove it. Or is that just your opinion.
Don’t let nole hit you with his ROS in that smaller and smaller corner you have painted yourself in.
Hilarious!
“Only facts matter, the rest is just whistling in the wind.” nadline has implicitly proclaimed Federer as the GOAT! OMG! 18 slams and 302 weeks at no.1 are facts and ‘rest is just whistling in the wind.’ !! I seeeeeeeeeeee.,,so THAT is what nadline was trying to say all along!! Silly us for not understanding it 😉
Sorry, just wanted to confirm that my post @ 5:24 pm was meant for hawkeye!
But I will say that this latest comment is even more proof of what I said! “Facts” seem to now be substituted here in place of opinions! Unfortunate that some just cannot accept any difference of opinion!
No one here is God, as far as I am concerned. No one should presume that they have a monopoly on what is right or wrong. Intolerance is a terrible thing!
Why some people delight in putting Rafa down with opinions that fly in the face of the facts is beyond me. It’s not in my nature to leave unchallenged anything anyone says that they can’t substantiate and I won’t follow them like sheep.
And yet you still do.
I won’t follow anyone like sheep who spews out propaganda masquerading as “facts”!
No one here is running down Rafa and quite frankly, it’s getting quite tiresome to hear this same absurdity repeated over and over. No matter how often someone repeats a falsehood, that does not make it true!
I haven’t seen any so-called “facts” presented by those who are the self-appointed defenders of Rafa and his only true blue fans. I have only seen insults hurled about at will. Propaganda has nothing to do with fact and truth!
interesting that hawkeye should suggest confused Mary for vr. Let us take Mary as a generic name for tenngrand posters ( after all Mary is the mother of God!). Then I am the Original Mary, vr is confused Mary, hawkeye is obnoxious Mary, native is manipulative Mary, nadline is loyal Mary, augusta is Reuters Mary, Chloro is oestridae Mary ( gotcha chloro!!!), ed is insightful Mary, Sanju is worried Mary, rafaisthebest is witty Mary………
Mother of Jesus Christ ..God is the Father..Jesus Son of God.
and Mary..you again crack me up 🙂
You forgot augusta Mary..adjective for her too 🙂
Mary, you are too funny! 🙂
Some could do with more than one Mary persona.
#sheep Mary
#hanging on coat tails Mary
#cheerleader Mary
@Mary, are you threatening to take over my “witty” persona???
June 25, 2015 at 2:36 am is one for the ages. Would love to see you sparring with @Twinge……….
C’mon @Twingey, Muzza’s winning again now, reason for you to come and regale us with your obnoxious Muzza-fandom!
rafabest, I wouldn’t dare spar with Twinge. He is champion Mary.
Nah, just a TT lurker who’s showed up here for a short stay ala OxC/anon/etc. Dime a dozen.
I miss the likes of willmw101 and holdserve. Much better characters than this one-dimensional mass of confusion.
At least those two were real Rafans who knew a lot about tennis beyond Rafa’s social media stats and what he had for breakfast.
June 25, 2015 at 7:38 pm,
—beyond Rafa’s social media stats…–
========================
.
Already long ago, you made it clear that you can’t stand the fact that Rafa has fans in social media. And you can’t stand Rafa’s social media stats especially after he surpassed Fed. 😆
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CE-hZy6WIAAk7yt.png
Augusta…….the vigilant guardian Mary
Mary you’ve got me foxed.
The other day I claimed to be able to recognise many posters by their writing style.
You know us all from TennTalk but what was your moniker before you rejoined the ‘knitting circle’? Could it possibly by Margot?
Noooooooooooo! Margot doesn’t remotely like Rafa let alone be a fan.
I can’t place Mary from TT either.
Why am I not surprised! 🙂
Oh I have a few ideas! 🙂
1 You do? Will you share them :-O
I’ve ruled out Lucky – great analyst but she was usually very serious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyNLNFu41lk
Enjoy the video to adore vintage Rafa
Those were the days!!
Thanks Sanju for putting this one up. That AO SF with Verdasco was unforgettable but that combined with the final was to be the straw that broke the camel’s back. It accelerated the deterioration of the knee tendonitis which necessitated the long break for treatment post the fatal ’09 RG,
ed,
No way is that person Lucky! She would never take sides and go after other people with personal attacks. She was all about the tennis.
I have to think about it a bit more. But if I shared who I thought it was, then it could cause a dustup! 🙂
I also think I have a pretty good idea who this person is… 🙂 coincidence isn’t it? And she happens to be so knowledgeable about the posters here… and so much interested in ROS issues… 🙂
but it’s all funny to read after all…we could use some amusement…not an easy life for Rafans this year….
Natashao knows it 😉 ‘nd so much interested in ROS issues” LOL… it is kind of obvious..haha
native says Lucky would “never take sides and go after other people with personal attacks. She was all about the tennis.” Ah that means native, vr, hawkeye and chloro cannot be Lucky as of course this gang of four took sides and did the rest of the things Lucky would never do.
From what native says, it appears she is claiming I am like her and her gang!!!!! Hilarious!!!!!
yes, natashao we could do with some innocent fun!!!
Think I would have been a big Laver fan. Don’t know for sure but am thinking perhaps he didn’t have the arrogance of Federer (and perhaps not the same fandom religious following).
Some relatively good highlight footage a year before he retired against Connors in 1975. Laver is 36. Connors just 22.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SptdffCeVmM
31 seconds between serves at the 4:30 mark and no time violation warning to Connors.
So much for the fedbots that claim the game was played quickly by all back in the day.
#ShhhRevisionismAtWork
haha….that’s a pretty sharp observation hawkeye! well done
Yeah I was watching it. Very impressed especially given he was playing with a wood racquet.
But then I noticed how long they were analysing the play between points and there was a clock on the video feed so it was easy to time.
I WAS a Laver fan! I grew up watching him.
I have been telling the Fedbots too many times that the game was not played fast in previous eras. I know because I was there and I saw it for myself!
I also remember seeing a youtube video of a young Borg playing a Laver past his prime in some tournament somewhere. Borg beat him in straight sets and even watching it so many years later, it was quite something to see this young teenage phenom beating the great Laver.
Except, neither Connors nor Mac were known for sportsmanship in their day. They were, I would say, slightly more honest versions of Nadal and Djokovic today, in the sense that they made no bones about playing fair on the court by spouting “humble” platitudes during the interviews. There was no pretense of fair play. They both wasted time on court with their endless banter. I think Connors was still a little subdued in this match because of who he was playing. Just like Mac versus Borg, where Mac went out of his way to be relatively calm out of respect for the man and the talent that Borg was. Today’s players lack even that sense of dignity on court and consistently at that. So yes, the so called “Fedbots” are 100% right when they call out Nadal/Djokovic. And I think the fans of these players know it. For me personally, I would still respect these two if they didn’t stage the sort of pretenses they stage in their interviews.
There were always guys who respected the game less than some of their counterparts. But even in that, there was at least some level of dignity because they didn’t hide behind a facade of humility. Laver himself has come out and said that he’s amazed at the time players seem to regularly take between points and all the towelling-off that goes on after every point. It’s so ridiculous. How do these guys hit an ace and then ask for a towel?That’s the reason in my opinion, that out of the current lot, Laver seems to respect Roger the most.
And he was just 5′ 8″.
@Oxc, Djokovic forcefully changed himself to become one of the ‘good guys’ and he wanted to fedal . Nadal, on the other hand, has been always like that since his teenage years! He is the most humble athlete you are ever going to see. If someone thinks that his false modesty, he does not know rafa at all! he/she is in a delusion 🙂 It all comes so naturally to rafa! He is a guy who is known to feel a little embarrassed about driving his Astin Martin in the small town of Mollorca where people don’t own many luxury cars !
He is a guy who has never thrown a racket on court ever since he started playing tournaments at age 10!! Because he has been taught to respect the equipment . His values are such that he believes it is not the fault of the racket and that he is fortunate to be in a position where he is! So you don’t seem to know rafa at all..superficially knowing him to reach these conclusions is not uncommon though.
I read some of your posts and I appreciate your tennis knowledge! Your viewpoints are mature I think. I am glad to see a federer fan posting here and a fan who knows some good stuff.
Regarding federer, well, he is the arrogant one while rafa is the humble one. Federer TRIES to play all humble and diplomatic but you cannot fake anything with perfection so we often see some federer gems in interviews and on court. Rafa , well, has always been like rafa of today ! Nothing about him has changed. His humility is one for the ages.
Both are two of the greatest of all time but possess very different personalities.
Regarding taking time between points, well, I am not going to say that rafa is totally right in taking more time than allowed . It is a rule (with many loopholes though) so implementation will obviously be there. But, the way federer fans try to paint it given their anti-nadalism, is also not too reasonable.
If you can be neutral for a moment (I know it is tough for us fans to be that haha), try to think from rafa’s perspective. He had certain ‘habits’ and ‘rituals’ developed as a CHILD and to deal with anxiety, he carried them forward because it was kind of part of the ‘package’ . I don’t think rafa ever had the intentions of using these rituals to cause harm to his opponents! There was NO such rule as well so he was never trained to play under the time constraints of today! The wins grand slams, becomes a giant of the sport and THEN you ask him to suddenly change his playing routine! That’s harsh on the guy. He has tried hard to eliminate some rituals (sock pulling , not handing over two towels to ball kids before a game begins for e.g) and he has picked up the pace a little but when you have something SO firmly embedded in your routine , it is very tough! Federer and some others are lucky they were trained in a different way and they never developed any such rituals.
Toni nadal has often voiced that rafa wants to get rid of his rituals and he (toni) tells him to get rid of them . I understand why some players and their fans can get frustrated but to expect that everything will go away suddenly because of an unprecedented rule, is also unreasonable!
Perhaps NNY can better comment on Connors and Laver because she has seen them all live! Wish I had that experience ..haha
natashao and vamosrafa,
Yes, you both seem to have figured it out. I thought about it a bit more and am in complete agreement with you both! 🙂
I am sure others are intelligent enough to figure it out 😉
Those were the FH Rafa that caused havoc and damage. Rafa FH-where art thou now? You are sorely missed. Just see some of those FH winners..Jesus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plGC4-9FmmA
Oxc,
I have to take issue with some of your revisionist history regarding players like Connors and McEnroe. Calling them honest is not accurate at all. Their gamesmanship on the court was quite dreadful and self-indulgent. Their tennis when they played each other was sublime at times and worth watching, but I despised their antics on court.
I have tried to make the point to Fed fans who seem to think that Rafa invented taking longer to serve, that he is hardly the first to do it. There has been all kinds of gamesmanship in this sport over the decades and for Fed fans to single out Rafa, is disingenuous at best.
There was nothing honest about the crap that Connors and McEnroe engaged in on the court. It was utter nonsense. How about Lendl? You want to talk about enmity between players? It was well known that Lendl and McEnroe despised each other. Lendl was likely to try to deliberately hit at his opponents as an intimidation tactic. Something you do not see anymore in the game today, thank goodness.
The Fedbots are wrong when they call out Novak or Rafa for what they perceive to be a lack of honesty and/or fake humility or whatever. They are far more likely to go after Rafa, as a matter of fact. Rafa and Novak have had their issues and have not pretended otherwise. When Rafa accidentally hit Novak with a shot in his face at the 2013 Cincy semi, Novak was very upset and would not accept Rafa’s on court apology. But they worked it out later on. So what is this business about them being dishonest?
Oh, and with respect to Laver complaining about the amount of time players take today, maybe he should be reminded that the sport is not the same as it was in his day. The athleticism and physicality of the game today makes the tennis back in his day look like Ping-Pong. New rackets with high technology have also given players more power. I loved Laver but in this regard he is simply not acknowledging the reality of this sport today.
I wanted to make one more point. Ilie Nastase, anyone? His antics on the court are the reason that the code of conduct was established in the first place. I remember a match at the USO in which he played McEnroe and where he basically refused to continue playing when the chair umpire made a call he didn’t like. I remember the crowd throwing food on the court and booing long and loud. I don’t remember all the details. I did watch it a while back on a youtube video. All I know is that at some point, Nastase agreed to play on. Delaying matches and gamesmanship was a mild word for what he did on the court. So was he honest? The guy made a colossal joke of himself, even though he was very talented.
You are saying that bad behavior on the court and publicly hating and disrespecting your opponent, is honesty. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Wow, that was great for knowledge! thanks a lot NNY ! I have only read about these greats but you have seen them all so these posts were awesome to read,
Rafa is rafa, look at how BRUTALLY honest he has been in 2015!! it is sooo good that it almost seems fake! but there lies the difference! it is all genuine because it is Rafael Nadal !
Djokovic was quite immature early in his career but he had evolved wonderfully well and now he is very mature. His sportsmanship is quite admirable.
“I remember a match at the USO in which he played McEnroe and where he basically refused to continue playing when the chair umpire made a call he didn’t like. I remember the crowd throwing food on the court and booing long and loud.”
If this is what is being referred to as ‘honesty’, then God, we don’t want this type of honesty! LOL
Classic.
Read what I wrote. There is no doubt that guys like Mac, Connors, Nastase were among the biggest when using gamesmanship in their day. Only, they did not pretend to be fair. They were open about playing and winning dirty. Today’s guys are more discreet about pulling the same tricks these guys did. They display lack of fair play too, only they do it quietly by either being extremely slow between points or by taking shady MTOs or simply pretending an injury (the way Djokovic does). Not throwing around a racquet on occasion is not a sign of ‘fair play’ (@vamosrafa) It might be good manners but there is a distinct difference between the two. Time wasting is always done to make the other guy think more and react less instinctively, particularly on important points, than he otherwise would. Racquet throwing on occasion may point to a mercurial temper. It doesn’t do much else. The same problem is with grunting. When you grunt at a time when the racquet makes an impact with the ball, it becomes just a tad harder to hear and consequently, anticipate the ball on the other side.
I really don’t care what players say in the pressers when it comes to judging humility. They’re a formality that some are better at dealing with than others, particularly after a tough loss. I’m more interested in how they play the game and judging players by what I see on court. And I don’t like watching contradictions on court.
OxC says:
June 26, 2015 at 3:13 am,
—by taking shady MTOs…—
=======================================
.
Taking a shady MTO:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrJLVtrCQAEqvIS.jpg
hawkeye,
Yes, thanks for point out that Laver was not tall. But he made up for it with his tremendous game. He was like no one else ever in the game. My idol growing up. Also, a true gentleman, quite humble. Gee, that reminds me of someone! Rafa! 🙂
Only, Laver prefers Fed over Nadal. Guess he’s a better judge of character, no? 🙂
No.
Federer’s game is a closer style to Laver’s so it is not surprising.
Am thinking Laver was not as arrogant. (What player is?) 🙂
Yes.
It was Federer who he asked to write the foreward of his autobiography. An honour literally ANY player would’ve loved to have had. So it’s definitely more than stylistic preference.
Federer’s arrogance or the lack of it is a matter of opinion. Laver clearly has no problem with who Federer is. In fact, no player, active or retired has paid Laver the kind of tribute Roger has. His speech at AO ’06 is by far the most sincere burst of emotion I’ve seen on a tennis court in a really long time.
OxC says:
June 26, 2015 at 12:54 pm,
—In fact, no player, active or retired has paid Laver the kind of tribute Roger has.—
=======================================
.
In fact, Rafa thinks that Laver is the GOAT.
Interview with Rafa in Basel on October 19,
Tages-Anzeiger, October 20, 2014 [in German language]: ¤¤ Roger and I get along, but we are not friends.¤¤
[An excerpt translated by Chris Boardman]
Question: “Do you follow the debate as to who the greatest tennis player is? You, Federer or someone from the past? What is your view?”
RAFA: “It is difficult to speculate as long as our careers are not yet completed. But in my opinion there much evidence that Rod Laver is the best in history. He won the calendar Grand Slam, joined the pros and won the Grand Slam again after a long break. That’s great. If he had not turned pro, he would certainly have won more majors than me and probably more than Roger as well. Laver must definitely be considered in this discussion. Roger has the most Grand Slams titles and broken many records, he is certainly one of them.”
thing about twinge… he had bite
maybe twinge bumped his head.
like really, really, REALLY hard
Twinge was an undiluted Muzz fan; definitely not a Rafan. There are people basting they know who it is but won’t say because they haven’t got a clue. They are just bluffing. If you know, why not give us the benefit of your wisdom?
It could be Cheryl Murray, 🙂 she was a Rafan.
why are you getting so defensive about the identity of a poster who has ‘recently’ joined LOL ..too funny
It took me a while but never thought she’d stoop so low.
Hilarious!!!
nadline,
You make these insinuating posts which are really attacks directed at me. But you won’t address me by name. Typical of you. Do not tell me or anyone else about not having a clue!
As a matter of fact, it was ed who asked me if I would share my thoughts. I declined. So it’s really none of your business.
This poster pretends to be new to this site, having supposedly been “reading” this site for a while. Then she comes and conveniently does your dirty work for you by going after the very people who you attack and insult on a regular basis. A bit too familiar, huh?
Oh and just to clarify, I never said definitively that I thought it was someone from TT. All this person does is repeat what you and augusta say, so I don’t know that it’s someone from TT at all.
nativenewyorker7 says:
June 26, 2015 at 1:54 pm,
—All this person does is repeat what you and augusta say…—
=========================
.
What??? She has commented on YOUR posts!
It’s not twinge. He was quite intelligent and had a wicked, quick wit. I do not recall anyone on TT who ever took sides with some Rafa fans against other Rafa fans. Not that I can remember at all.
Oh native, you think I am vr or hawkeye or maybe chloro because they ganged up with you to attack other Rafa fans? Hilarious!!! ( hawkeye you could consider patenting that word!)
Sorry I am neither confused nor obnoxious nor oestridae. Keep guessing!!!
I am sure chloro and native remember Twinge, his sharp wit and acid tongue because he reduced them to shivering bits of jelly. Twinge apologized to Chloro because he realized chloro is really a good sort, just led astray by bad company. He apologized to native because Twinge had misguided notions of British chivalry.
Bwahahahahah!
Nice revisionism at work there. Mary, almost every posts of your here so far seems to be aimed at provoking reactions, and trying to set people against each other. Trolling in other words. Perhaps there are more interesting things about tennis and tennis players you could post instead.
Incidentally:
Twinge apologized to all of us collectively as TT was about to be ended… for having written on many occasions all sorts of posts … while being quite drunk.
chloro , me “trying to set people against each other. Trolling in other words ” Oh my God, have I been doing that? native too has been insistent about that. You guys have now convinced me!!! I may resist but there is no escape. I am CHLORO or NATIVE!!!! Boo hoo hoo !!! Oh the horror of it! Scylla or Charybdis! Somebody please tell me this is a dreadful dream!!! That I will wake up and find I am thankfully Lucky or Twinge!
mary,
The truth is I have no idea which poster you were on TT, but you don’t write / think at all like Twinge when drunk and when not drunk. And you don’t write / think at all like Lucky… she wrote posts about TENNIS with her deep understanding and insight.
The other thing is that you are trolling… and I won’t respond to you again.
I’ll end my last post to you by repeating that there are more interesting things you could post about, namely tennis and the male and female tennis professionals we follow.
Vamosrafa, I do see your point re: Nadal’s training. I also think that it is mostly Toni who thinks it’s okay to bend over rules if it means you can get the big W. But at some point, Nadal is going to have to cut him lose on some matters and not listen to everything he says. At least, show respect to the guys who don’t pull cheap tricks when they play you. As much as I dislike JMac (well, except his hands at the net) he at least toned it down when he played Borg. It didn’t put JMac at any disadvantage to show that little bit of deference. He still won an equal number of their contests.
If you can’t see OCD then you are as blind as some Rafans here.
Has nothing to do with Toni.
June 26, 2015 at 12:37 pm,
Armchair doctors can’t be taken seriously.
No I don’t see that as being the main reason for his time-wasting. Usually when asked to pick up pace he does a pretty good job of it and I’ve often seen him get deliberately slower on the important points. Djokovic does this too. And I think Toni has everything to do with it. I’ve seen his attitude toward on-court coaching. Then there’s also the nonsense he pulled with Carlos Ramos concerning time-warnings. So yes, Toni definitely has a role to play here.
OCD symptoms worsen in stressful moments. But you wouldn’t know that nor be aware of all his other rituals and mannerisms that highly indicate OCD.
it’s Roger who curses out umpires when he doesn’t get his way, who points at the wrong mark on clay and who takes bathroom breaks to wait for the sun to move and occasionally grunts while complaining about occasional hunting who is the hypocrite here.
Too funny!!!
^Perfect example.
Thank-you for proving my point.
https://tenngrand.com/2015/06/18/queens-club-qf-previews-and-picks-murray-vs-muller-isner-vs-troicki/comment-page-3/#comment-201800
chloro,
Thanks for setting the record straight. I didn’t want to dignify those comments with a reply, but I think you were right to tell it like it is.
It doesn’t take any guts to attack people behind an anonymous screen name. You calledit for what it is!
nny 🙂
Even though we are all anonymous in terms of our real names… a lot of a person’s personality etc comes through when you read enough of their posts, no? That goes for any and every aspect (good bad ugly boring interesting and so on) that comes through, and that goes for all of us posters.
OxC says:
June 26, 2015 at 12:49 pm,
—And I think Toni has everything to do with it. I’ve seen his attitude toward on-court coaching.—
=============================
.
If saying ‘Vamos!’ is coaching, then coaching is a very simple thing – it consists only of one word! Everybody can do it!
Of course you don’t need any proof that is all Toni is saying because you don’t apply your own rules to yourself now.
Do you?
Or don’t you.
June 27, 2015 at 1:44 pm,
.
The Telegraph, 27 Jun 2010: ¤¤ Wimbledon 2010: Rafael Nadal’s uncle at centre of illegal coaching row.
The world No1 has denied the umpire’s claim that he received coaching during his victory over Philipp Petzschner, but the incident has opened up a debate on the subject.
…
“Toni wasn’t giving me any tips, he was only supporting me,” Nadal said. …
Nadal’s opponent also said that he had not heard any coaching, just a few cries of “VAMOS” from Toni… ¤¤
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rafaelnadal/7857620/Wimbledon-2010-Rafael-Nadals-uncle-at-centre-of-illegal-coaching-row.html
So you must believe what Rafa says about Nole’s ROSS is fact also.
“Communications of any kind, audible or visible, between a player and a coach may be construed as coaching. ”
Vamos!!
June 27, 2015 at 6:51 pm,
Your issue with this has nothing to do with me.
June 28, 2015 at 10:37 am,
I am curious to know why there are double standards…?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIlVJ6xUYAAxV0i.png
June 28, 2015 at 10:37 am,
I am curious to know why there are double standards…?
==============
Good question to ask yourself indeed.
Maybe you should hire a psychiatrist like Andy. On second thought you might need a team of them.
“I talk to Rafa during matches. I know that it’s not allowed but I think that at my age I have nothing to hide,” Toni told the Spanish journalist David Nadal.
Toni Nadal added that he sees little value in using sports psychologists, and added, “In the tennis world, those who are mentally stronger, are also technically stronger.”
June 28, 2015 at 11:41 am,
—Maybe you should hire a psychiatrist like Andy—
=========================================
.
If my memory serves me correctly, you have someone permanently in your household…
I inquired on your behalf but am told you are a lost cause. Try the yellow pages.
June 28, 2015 at 12:14 pm
—“I talk to Rafa during matches. I know that it’s not allowed but I think that at my age I have nothing to hide,” Toni—
===============================
.
Yep, U.Toni doesn’t deny that he says “Vamos!” (= “Come one!”) and he also says “Move your legs!” (of course in Catalan language, not in English).
I am still curious to know why professional commentators are defending Djoko’s team and are bushing Rafa’s team (see my post on June 28, 2015 at 11:34 am).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIl-voXUAAE0_0X.png
So he breaks the coaching rules same as Nole and Andy. As I thought. Nothing new.
June 28, 2015 at 3:05 pm,
Maybe you should ask for help from your household?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CImLFvkWsAAgqek.png
“Communications of any kind, audible or visible, between a player and a coach may be construed as coaching. ”
Vamos! Move your legs!
@Oxc, Well I don’t think anything can be interpreted about Either rafa or Toni wanting to bend the rules. When Toni was training rafa as a kid, there were no rules having these time violation warnings. I am no expert on these superstitious behaviors but may be it is OCD? I don’t know exactly but they are clearly some superstitions that seem very natural and have been developed by rafa himself to deal with ANXIETY and I don’t think they have anything to do with gamesmanship. Why does he take longer to serve on the big points well that is because his anxiety his at his peak before those points! it is not like he is bouncing the ball 100 times voluntarily to cause delay or something like that, he has his own ‘routine’ and judging from his interviews, he does not like them and wants to get rid of them!
Well, I think rafa’s behavior on the court is very consistent with the humility and respect he has for the game and his opponents! Some people think his fist pumping is to annoy his rivals but that is absurd! Those who say this don’t know anything about rafa. He is fighting the scoreboad out there! he is giving his 100% even when the score in 5-0 in his favor ! It is love for the sport that elicits those reactions
Regarding grunting, well, do you honestly think players spend time in learning how to grunt rather than work on their games? For someone of rafa’s caliber, he does not need these cheap tricks and these cheap tricks distract opponents?! no way, players are not that fragile. There are others who grunt , look at ferrer! so again, habits developed as a child and they become part of the package! If grunting is part of gamesmanship, how do you explain the grunting on every point ! Even when rafa is winning easily, he is grunting whenever he is pushed in a rally! nothing nadal does is associated with gamesmanship. It is all about interpretation
@chloro, 2:13 pm
You make some good points. In the end, we are all anonymous. But it comes down to how we conduct ourselves behind these usernames. I get that. But I don’t like having a kind of witch hunt being conducted on this site and people being targeted if they say even one thing about one of Rafa’s rivals.
I want to talk about tennis. I want to talk about Rafa, but I also want to be able to talk abut Fed, Novak, Murray and others. I want to be able to say if I appreciate aspects of their game. That does not by definition make me a traitor to Rafa!
I don’t like seeing a few here ganging up on others at will and saying such personally offensive things. This “Mary” has come here for the purpose of insulting some people. You can see it for yourself. You responded to it and clarified the record.
When TT was shutting down, Twinge took the opportunity to apologize to us and admit that he was drinking or taking pills or whatever. That took some courage and innate decency. Then to read this person twisting and distorting things and insulting both you and myself, also vamosrafa and hawkeye. Well, we are being targeted by someone who is repeating verbatim the attacks from nadline and augusta.
Some good people have been run off this site for daring to have opinions that disagreed with the select few here. That’s the truth.
Did her TT alias start with ‘C’ ?
June 26, 2015 at 2:22 pm,
—But I don’t like having a kind of witch hunt being conducted on this site and people being targeted if they say even one thing about one of Rafa’s rivals.—
=====================================
.
Oh, people are being targeted if they post a negative FACT about Rafa’s rivals!
Vamosrafa, the 20 second rule was introduced before Nadal turned professional (to my knowledge at least). This is really not an excuse. As for the argument on anxiety-again, there are players who don’t do this. Who play to pace no matter what. What prevents Nadal/Djokovic from mustering the dignity to respect at least those guys? And honestly, Nadal’s anxiety issues look way over-stretched to me. There’s no way he’d be able to do so well professionally if his “anxiety” was that problematic. It’s ridiculously phony to claim that as an excuse. My argument I think is pretty simple: If you cannot respect the opponent on court it doesn’t matter what you say off it. Time-wasting, shady MTOs, endless littany of injury excuses, on-court coaching-none of these point to a semblance of respect in my book. If you find it acceptable I cannot engage on this any further.
Yes it started with a Carrie definitely.
Oooops.
“If you cannot respect the opponent on court it doesn’t matter what you say off it. Time-wasting, shady MTOs, endless littany of injury excuses, on-court coaching-none of these point to a semblance of respect in my book”
Yes like Roger admitting taking a bathroom break against Davydenko at Wimbledon to wait for the sun to move, injury excuses (bad back, mono), pointing to the wrong mark on clay vs Rafa, cursing umpires to their face, breaking racquets, and blaming losses on lucky shots, grunting suddenly, cursing Murray during the match to his face, screaming at the French crowd to shut up. Such respect isn’t exactly peRFectly classy now is it.
On the contrary, sounds just a bit hypocritical to me.
God it’s KILLING Me!!!!
Hilarious,
The 20 second rule was written when tennis was played in long dresses and bonnets.
It was only ENFORCED when Roger whined about it in 2012. Of course he doesn’t want to go as far as s shot clock because then it would have to be called consistently against all players which would prove to be a farce. It wouldn’t be able to single out Nadal.
‘I do believe the officials could be a bit more tough on timing,’ he told reporters at Indian Wells. ‘I’m not complaining a lot, but I don’t know how you can go through a four-hour match with Rafa and he never gets a time violation. It’s natural that even I would go over time, but they never remind us. There are times when they could be a bit more firm. Because at the end of the day, I don’t know if fans are getting frustrated to watch five points that are going to take us five minutes.’
Talking about the possibility to install a shot clock.
‘I hope it does not go that far. All of us should be able to agree of something that is possible. But you don’t want to lose fans because of that.’
Players have been complaining about Nadal’s time-wasting LONG before Roger in 2012 (in fact, that is not even accurate since Roger had been pressing for it since well before then which basically goes to show that when it comes to having an intellectually honest discussion, you chicken out and reinvent some nonsense assuming ignorance on the other side). Incidently, it was Agassi who first pointed it out and was followed by several players/commentators following suit.
In some ways, I’m almost glad Djokovic plays it dirty versus Nadal because that is exactly what the both of them deserve.
As for a shot clock, Roger’s right in saying that what needs to be curbed is the notoriety in time-wasting. Deliberately delaying the game. In fact, he’s bang on target. Good for him.
What is the bathroom break myth perpetuated by the fanboys here? The whole match is available on Youtube and Roger took EXACTLY 2 minutes which is usually the time allotted between two sets. I guess, just a case of shifting blame for dirty play. Plus, if that is the best you could find for Roger, I’ll day he’s doing pretty well. 🙂
As for OCD, again, if it was that bad he wouldn’t be playing professionally and most importantly, he almost always tones it down when asked to. So yeah, just more redundancy from you lot.
I don’t know why shouting at a fan for distracting him has ANYTHING to do with gamesmanship but since you’re good at building strawmen, I’m not altogether surprised.
Breaking racquets? Whaaa..He did like once in 15 years? Who cares? Just another strawman and a cheap ploy for obvious lack of argumentation from your side. Nothing you seem to say appears worth reading to be honest. But I’ll still bite because I do enjoy taking your case. :p
Oxc,
I am not sure which versions of that bathroom break you have heard because there is only one version. It was one of he fines display of gamesmanship through a toilet break!
Davy was bossing federer around the court and fed took a bathroom break to solve a problem for himself:
“When the sun comes from the side, the ball seems half he size and it is just hard to hit. I never take toilet breaks but I thought Why not?” I just hoped that every minute it took , the sun would move another centimeter’.
SO this was pure gamesmanship!
And yeah,, talking about respect. Roger has so much respect for Chair umpires. He abuses them at will , scolds them so that they cannot freely take decisions against him?!!
Come on,, you are losing credibility in your arguments by presenting Federer as a Saint here ,which he clearly is not. And his explanation on why he lost the wimbledon 08 final, it got too dark! Brilliant. That is the worst excuse ever to lose perhaps the greatest match ever.
Rafa’s injuries are not excuses! The guy has suffered so much. Why do you think poor guy has had to take so many breaks from tennis!? His assessments are by far the most honest ! Read his this year’s interviews. So damn honest! Not like roger who after having a miserable season in 2013 said he still believes tennis matches are on his racket!
It’s ok OxC. That’s what all My fans say about My posts yet they can’t tear themselves away!!!
That is My point. The rule was only changed (yes changed) in 2012 after FEDERER complained. But you didn’t know that did you My little scare crow.
Here’s an epic racquet destruction from 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-e-Ud-ly04&sns=em
15 years huh? Federazzi math is hilarious!!!
You do it to yourself My fan.
His OCD has worsened. It’s only become a disorder in the last two years. But you wouldn’t know the definition of a disorder would you.
Federazzi know little about tennis beyond Roger so it’s understandable.
You’re welcome My fan.
http://www.oregonlive.com/the-spin-of-the-ball/index.ssf/2015/06/rafael_nadal_is_a_long_shot_at.html
vamosrafa,
I was going to respond to OxC’s revionist history, but you already did! I don’t know how anyone could even pretend to make excuses for what Fed did in that match at the AO against Davy. Davy came out and was taking it to Fed. In fact, at one point in the second set he had a chance to go up a double break! But he didn’t get it done. Fed admitted it himself!
This absurd idea that Rafa is somehow the only player who engages in gamesmanship, is getting really old. Hawkeye posted a video of Laver back in the day and showed that they took a long time to serve even then. Gamesmanship is part of sport. It’s a way to gain an advantage while still trying to play within the rules. There are times when it gets out of hand and Nastase is a perfect example of that.
You can’t have it both ways, OxC!
Federazzi revisionism is HILARIOUS!!!
spot on NNY! rafa’s time delaying is mostly associated with his superstitious behavior (most likely OCD) but okay, even if he engages in some gamesmanship, it is very much part of the game! Fed’s gamesmanship was the purest of all !
@hawkeye, another classic racket smash took place in the nadal-federer miami 2005 final 😉 may be you could find a video haha..
My he was an angry player during the weak era when he thought every match should be handed to him on a golden platter now wasn’t he. Same year different player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM6x-sBoy1k&sns=em
What would mirka say?
vamosrafa says:
June 26, 2015 at 12:13 am
Djokovic was quite immature early in his career but he had evolved wonderfully well and now he is very mature. His sportsmanship is quite admirable.
——————————————————-
What is admirable about smashing the sponsor’s property, shouting obscenities at the spectators or faking injury when on the back foot? You blind loyalty to Djoker knows no bounds.
lol, you chickened away yesterday and now you are back ! in case you pretend to have not seen my posts, they are on the second last page of Rafael Nadal fan page.
and by the way, Djokovic has matured a lot. Look at what federer said the other day. He said he did not like djokovic’s behavior early on but now djokovic is a mature guy whom he respects.
Even rafa would say the same 🙂
You cannot compare him to rafa, of course. As I said earlier, rafa is rafa so everyone’s demeanor looks pale when comparaed to rafa… otherwise, djokovic is a very good sportsman now. he is one of the best losers in the game right now…
I off away for the WE but I hope to catch a bit of Rafa at Boodles this afternoon.
No children, don’t fight. I think everyone knows who is a fan of whom by now and those who are just fair weather fans. No need to continue this futile argument.
Don’t forget to read the post below before chickening out!
@ 8.17am
–––Look at what federer said the other day. He said he did not like djokovic’s behavior early on but now djokovic is a mature guy whom he respects–––––––
He would say that wouldn’t he: Djokovic has just joined the married-man-with-family club and boy is he milking it for all it’s worth.
He has come a long way from the brash teenager he was when he first started out and I am mindful of the struggle it was to survive in his country let alone rise to the very top of his sport.
I agree for a long time he has been a gracious loser. The way he handled the loss at RG was particularly admirable when he had just seen his chance of the Career Slam go up in smoke.
So much of what he says and does is orchestrated with an eye on photo calls and sound bite opportunities for the furtherment of the Djokovic express train.
ed,
That’s how I think of djokovic too: he has clearly matured, and watching him I always have the impression that what we’re seeing is a mixture of authenticity and calculation, sometimes more the one sometimes the other.
And Novak is also the young man most revered (not just most, extremely, as a semi-deity) in his own country. A few years of that would go to nearly anyone’s head.
by the way, your hatred for other players knows no bounds. It is pitiful indeed…. Rafa is the complete opposite.
Toni nadal once said in an interview that he always taught his nephew never to even wish defeat on others! He brought this up in response to a question regarding the french crowd’s behavior in RG 2009 rafa vs soderling. He said I always tell rafael that if he supports real madrid, he should not wish defeat on barcelona! This is very tough to do but one can at least learn not to disrespect and hate!
Some of what Toni said:
“,it’s good to cheer for somebody’s victory but it’s not
normal to wish defeat on somebody else..”I know that a lot of
fans are like that but I think it’s a rather dumb way of going about it. Anyway, we’re not
brought up like that in our family, that’s not what we’ve been taught. It’s for that reason
that I was shocked by the way the Parisian public acted…”
I think it is very common for fans to wish defeat on other players when their man is out of the tournament because you don’t wanna see your man’s rival pulling away with titles.
BUT, the way you show hatred for players like Djokovic and Fed, Toni would feel very sorry for you LOL
@Vamosrafa 8.28am
The cyber-world would be more congenial if the word ‘hate’ was banned on all sites unless it pertains to food. I myself hate anchovies, olives and capers 🙂
I dislike intensely Djokovic’s insincere Mr. Nice Guy persona which he has cultivated to win approval and the bellicose celebrations on winning are a complete turn-off (although his PR people have recently given him a ‘make-over’ in this department). I don’t care for the mind games Federer employs before a big showdown; nor the sting in the tail of his grudging compliments for his main adversaries; Funnily enough I don’t mind his arrogance because he has every right to be proud of his achievements. On the other hand, his conceit and self-love is beyond tiresome.
Nadline is single-minded in her devotion to Rafa and unswerving in her defence of him against all and sundry. But I have never never known her express hatred towards other players – only to some of the obnoxious trolls who turned TT into a nightmare.
Agree with VR on Djokovic – particularly in the last year.
How he handled the loss at the French Open was exemplary.
Also agree with VR about nadline. Good source of entertainment though. And now there are two!!!
ed, I am never putting that much thought and weight in to every single word but if you want to replace hate with dislike, that is fine!
You have tried to stay diplomatic on this which is understandable but you are well aware what kind of ‘defense’ she does around here. Now tell me, how is saying tha tDjokovic has a fantastic ROS or saying djokovic has matured a lot related to anything with Rafa? Yet, you see the typical responses over and over again with points awarded on loyalty! The same old same old!
If someone is saying okay Novak is more well behaved than Rafa and THEN these loyalists come to say their stuff, you can get that to SOME EXTENT but what about these instances?? If you don’t hate/dislike a player, why always try to intervene and negative anything positive said about him? It is not For djokovic but also for Djokovic here!
Whether he does it for PR or for whatever purpose, fact is, he is come a long way from being the silly teenager who claimed to be in control in his match against Rafa in RG 06 QF to the player he is now. He is a lot more mature . WHAT has this anything to do with rafa?! Please explain…
@hawkeye, the way he embraced his loss at RG was very classy! NO WAY one can pretend that well when you are hurt so badly from the inside! There is no harm in admitting that!
Ed, Rafa himself has massive respect for DJokovic ! so cannot his fans have that? we cannot like him but like rafa, at least I can respect what fed and novak have achieved ! of course they are RIVALS and to be honest I am rooting for either Stan or Murray when rafa loses early as I dont want rafa’s rivals to gain ground on him or pull away from him.
Rafa always has great respect for Novak so unless you think he does that for PR, you gotta admit Djokovic is worthy of respect in many but RAFA respects him a lot. Again, I DON’T like djokovic and a lot of what he does but that won’t stop me from saying he has matured and that he has an all-time great ROS!
Correction :
June 26, 2015 at 12:43 pm post, third paragraph
” If you don’t hate/dislike a player, why always try to intervene and negative anything positive said about him? It is not For djokovic but also for Djokovic here!”
I meant NEGATE anything positive said about him… igore the last sentence as I cannot make it myself what I was trying to say LOL
June 26, 2015 at 12:43 pm,
—If you don’t hate/dislike a player, why always try to intervene and negative anything positive said about him? —
==========================
.
The problem with you is that you can’t stand an opinion that’s different from yours.
djoker was being very genuine and classy in defeat LONG AGO…..
remember his demeanour after USO 2010 final…? warmed the cockles of my sentimental heart to see the camaradie between rafa and nole after that match. nole was so affectionate towards rafa and genuinely glad for him for getting the career slam.
rafa himself kept saying how novak’s attitude in defeat at a slam final was incredible and a great example for the kids.
none of that was staged or forced…it was all utterly genuine and very touching…..
—The problem with you is that you can’t stand an opinion that’s different from yours.—
==========================
No the problem is that you and nadline respond to comments regarding TENNIS with comments regarding POSTERS.
And therein lies the difference.
#OneToGrowOn
@augusta, there is onely one problem : you and nadline cannot stand anything good said about rafa’s opponents when funnily. rafa himself is full of compliments for his rivals!
Giving loyalty points and pasting screen shots out of context can turn every discussion into pointless exchanges. perfect examples can be found above. I wrote about 300 words , mostly defending rafa , and nadline chose a few words from there about Djokovic to trigger a pointless argument. same old, same old!
June 26, 2015 at 1:11 pm,
YOU are trolling other POSTERS!
@amy, glad to read your thoughts! I 100% agree! There are things about Djokovic we do not like and we know what they are but what he or any other player does well, should be appreciated. It has NOTHING to do with demeaning rafa or something
@hawkeye, lol, concisely put! You said it better than I could/
vamosrafa (at 1:17 pm),
1) —@augusta, there is onely one problem : you and nadline cannot stand anything good said about rafa’s opponents…—
2) —pasting screen shots—
========================
.
1) People are entitled to give their opinion if they so wish. (I used someone else’s quote.)
2) I present evidences. Every time (maybe not every time) you have accused me, I have asked you to present factual proof, but you have never done this.
Hawkeye,
Thanks for digging that one up! I don’t know where on earth the Federazzi get this nonsense about him never losing it on court, never engaging in gamesmanship, being such a great sportsman! Please! I got a kick out of this one! Nice find! 🙂
amy,
You should be careful about saying such nice things about Novak! You will be branded a Rafa fair weather fan, not a real Rafa fan and a host of other not so nice things.
If anyone here says even one thing complimentary about one of Rafa’s rivals, then they are branded forever. Yet Rafa has had good things to say about Novak’s game. Rafa displays real respect for his opponents. He doesn’t necessarily have to like them as people, but what they bring to this sport he appreciates. I think it takes real confidence and self-assurance to be able to give praise to rivals in a sport.
Rafa has a good heart. He doesn’t not stoop to cheap shots. But those here who claim to be his only true blue, loyal fans, are in reality disrespecting him by relentlessly attacking other Rafa fans here for daring to say anything positive about his fellow players.. I think that’s a real shame.
Watch out guys, if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck….it is a DUCK!!!
So if the gang of 4 ‘bigs-up’ Rafa’s rivals ( Djoko has the best ROS, Fed is more popular than Rafa…..all of which are contradicted by stats ) and even bigs up Stan ( he is the best clay courter…!!!) ……And more tellingly attacks and harasses loyal Rafa fans like nadline and augusta for DEFENDING Rafa….. what pray is the conclusion?
vr and nny,
i am maybe the only person here who actually likes nole. (except when he plays rafa when i hurl abuse at him constantly!)
yes he has his faults, but also for me many good points and i feel a lot of affection for him…
if that brings abuse upon me for liking someone then i really couldn’t care less..
i’ve deliberately written this to make it clear where i stand.
No Amy I like Nole too I’d take him any time over Federer.
Nole’s a class act.
amy,
Good for you! Stay true to yourself. I am not a Novak fan, but I do appreciate his talent and his game. So does Rafa! He has spoken many times about Novak’s strengths and how tough he is as an opponent. That’s another reason to love Rafa. He is able to compliment his rivals. He acknowledges their strengths and what they bring to the game.
I will say that the way Novak handled his defeat at RG was very classy. Maybe he has matured and grown up. It’s not easy to take yet another defeat, this one not at the hands of Rafa. However, some of his fans are another thing entirely!
I am happy that you are standing up for what you believe. 🙂
i actually have quite a lot of fondness for fed as well….altho i kind of hate him for the time penalty thing….
does this put me completely beyond the pale?! i guess i will be a target now….?!
but then hey who gives a f***!
Can’t say I’m fond of Federer but his game is undeniably amazing to watch.
#NE1butRF
hawkeye, my feelings about both nole and fed are partly bound up with the incredible tennis that both fedal and rafole have given us. wimby 2008, RG 2013…and so on…
that’s about all 3 players turning tennis into a thing of beauty with lashings of good will and fair play on all sides….
i am very very grateful just to have been able to witness that……
see how sentimental i am!!
A lot can be said but ….I am out of this, not going to contribute to these pointless arguments esp when it is the same old crap.
Boodles has begun for me as rafa is playing today and wimbledon is starting in 3 days. I am going to stick with tennis discussions and I am sure a lot of posters can contribute to them.
Good luck to fellow ‘detractors’ .
Good for you dear vr. You are respected when you stick to tennis ( you are an excellent tennis analyst) not when you troll as part of the gang of 4.
vamosrafa,
I agree with your sentiments! Ifinally was able to watch Rafa’s match at Boodles yesterday. I thought he looked quite relaxed, but then it is an exho with nothing on the line. But I thought he served very well in that match. His movement on the grass was also extremely good. His groundstrokes had nice depth and accuracy and he was moving into the court and being aggressive. Some great volleys at net!
It’s a good thing that he had another match in preparation for Wimbledon. I hope he serves this way when the tournament begins.
I also intend to make every effort to avoid those who have come here for the wrong reasons, mainly to attack, harass and instigate. Not to talk tennis!
The endless carping is a waste of time and energy. There is going to be a lot of great tennis to look forward to and I hope to participate in some quality discussions. 🙂
June 27, 2015 at 3:09 pm,
It would be great if you stop attacking. A long time ago I asked:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIhj-q8UsAA14Py.png
augusta08 the “victim”
I truly didn’t mean to start a witch hunt when I pondered on the identity of the mysterious newcomer on this site but there now seems to be a consensus as to who it might be.
My apologies if I inadvertently outed you 😉
Ed you needn’t carrie all of the burden.
See what I just did right there?
I hope we haven’t frightened away………………..I was looking forward to being able to hide behind the red and gold sofa she installed for Rafans.
@hawkeye, how do you come up with these gems time and time again LOL
Woohoo!!! It is wimbledon time!!! 0% expectations and 100% hope ( ha ha) !!! The gang of 4 will probably be too busy watching matches to have much time to harass and intimidate loyal Rafa fans!!!! Native, of course, will be watching RECORDED matches as no matter where she lives, the poor thing is always in the WRONG time zone.
I was horrified when native insisted I was she ( sets Rafa fans against other Rafa fans: trademark Native) but no one bought her ridiculous allegations! The general consensus seems to be that I am nadline ( same as carrie I presume from hawkeye’s weak pun?).
Sorry guys, I am NOT nadline. I am proud to be mistaken for her for she is a loyal fan of Rafa, the one GOAT. The gospel according to Rafans….that I myself am he! There is no GOAT besides me. I have been wounded and I am healed, and no one can escape from my powerful (fore) hand.
It would be more fun though to be Twinge! Why? Because I could have sent native and chloro scuttling for cover!!!
Yes, hawkeye, how do you do it, maestro? LOL
and you reminded me of one of my favorite sequences of songs by the 4 golden boys:
Once there was a way to get back homeward
Once there was a way to get back home
Sleep pretty darling do not cry
And I will sing a lullabye
Rafa, you’re gonna carrie that weight
Carrie that weight a long time
Rafa, you’re gonna carrie that weight
Carrie that weight a long time
I never give you my pillow
I only send you my invitations
And in the middle of the celebrations
I break down
Cue rad drum solo …
And in the end, rafa, the love you take
Is equal to the love you make
chloro that reminds me of a post you made a week or so ago, ” apropos of nothing: oestridae” . No one except sharp eyed Mary noticed it. I think everyone should know that you are the scion of the oestridae family! All hail chloro oestridae!!!
@chloro, isn’t it too funny that someone claims to be a ‘he’ and is using a female moniker LOL
Oops, could not resist commenting. *Back to Wimbledon mode*
*golf clap*
This is for sanju. i have published ads in the personal columns of all the major newspapers : Come home, Rafa forehand!!! All is forgiven!!! nadline inconsolable, sanju distraught, native trolling…..Love, Rafafans
Got it at last. But not telling. You’ll have to work it out for yourself 😛
good job ed 😉
Don’t tell, ed. I am an elf. Revealing my name would make me lose my magical powers!!!
So the trolls assume I am carrie and come up with puns and stupid poems and pat each other on the back! Hilarious!!! Using dear vr’s own words, ” comical and delusional” !!!
vr suffers from comprehension problems. Excused as english is not his 1st language. But he sounds comical and delusional when he claims somebody claims to be a “he”. When ? Where? Hilarious!!!!
don’t worry my comprehension skills are top notch. It is just that I go though ‘some’ posts too quickly so a minor slip up…haha
“Native” Mary had a little lamb….And everywhere that ” Native” Mary went,
The lamb was sure to go.
No wonder the respectable analyst vr has gone astray and become a troll.
vr, so your definition of top notch comprehension skills is replying without understanding? Hilarious!!!
Oh snap! 🙂
oh snap!… indeed 😉
Who can identify the antagonists and protagonists in the convoluted drama unfolding on this thread ?
vamosrafa says:
June 26, 2015 at 1:17 pm
“@augusta, there is only one problem: you and nadline ARE NOT FAIR WEATHER RAFA FANS. Rafa himself is full of compliments for his rivals BUT ONLY WHERE COMPLIMENTS ARE DUE!”
Fixed it for you. 🙂
*********************************************
No fans of Rafa’s rivals regularly put down the player they support and continuously sing the praises of his Rafa.
ed251137 says:
June 26, 2015 at 11:54 am
“@Vamosrafa 8.28am
The cyber-world would be more congenial if the word ‘hate’ was banned on all sites unless it pertains to food. I myself hate anchovies, olives and capers 🙂
Nadline is single-minded in her devotion to Rafa and unswerving in her defence of him against all and sundry. But I have never never known her express hatred towards other players – only to some of the obnoxious trolls who turned TT into a nightmare.”
———————————————————–
To people like vamosrafa alias adjienole, pointing out the shortcomings of anyone other than Rafa is hatred. Rafa is the only one in their firing line. Even defending Rafa is an act of hatred towards his rivals.
Nadline10 is trolling. Please do not feed the troll.
hawkeye63 is trolling. His feeders keep him well-nourished.
that’s enough
This is a lesson for Mary’s little lamb who blindly follow her everywhere:
Mary had a little lamb,
She tied it to a pylon;
One thousand volts shot up its ****
And now its wool is nylon.