There may have been a stunner on the women’s side on Friday at the U.S. Open, but the men’s semifinals could not have been more straightforward.
And dominance by Roger Federer in the nightcap could not have been less surprising. Federer, who did not drop a set en route to the Cincinnati title last month and is doing the same so far in New York, clobbered fellow Swiss Stan Wawrinka 6-4, 6-3, 6-1 to reach his first final at this event since 2009.
The 34-year-old fired 10 aces while double-faulting only twice and he was not broken a single time. He finished with more winners than Wawrinka (29 to 25) despite committing almost half as many unforced errors (17 to 30).
“(I) didn’t play my best game,” Wawrinka lamented. “Didn’t serve well and everything. But basically it’s him; the way he’s playing. [Since] Wimbledon, he is starting already at the different level. He came back (in) Cincinnati at a completely different level. Here also. If [he keeps] this level, he’s going to be tough to beat.”
“I wasn’t quite sure if I was going to play this aggressive against Stan, because when he’s on he presents a very different challenge [from] all the players I have played thus far in this tournament,” Federer explained. “But now that I have been able to do it also against Stan definitely gives me confidence that maybe I can also do it against Novak (Djokovic) this way.”
It will be Federer vs. Djokovic on Sunday because the world No. 1 made extremely quick work of Marin Cilic in the first semifinal. Hobbled by a minor ankle injury, Cilic–the defending champion–bowed out in 6-0, 6-1, 6-2 blowout.
Djokovic faced only one break point and saved it easily early in the second set. The top-seeded Serb committed a mere 13 errors as he booked a spot in his fourth major final of the year (he is 2-1 in title matches, losing only to Wawrinka at the French Open).
“It felt great to be able to perform as well as I did today at this stage of a tournament, knowing that Marin carried that injury for last couple of matches,” Djokovic commented. “I didn’t allow that fact to distract me too much. I just wanted to concentrate on what I needed to do on the court and come out with the right intensity.
“All in all, it was from my side a very solid match and I take that as a confidence booster for the final.”
Get your popcorn ready for that final. No. 1 vs. No. 2–it doesn’t get any better.
[polldaddy poll=9072517]
Didn’t get to watch both SFs in full, fallen asleep halfway. What happened to Cilic?
I think Novak will win his 2nd USO title here as I think he’s more steady and consistent than Fed where his level of play is concerned. I think other than Rafa, only Novak knows how to exploit Fed’s weaknesses the best. As long as Novak serves well and returns well, Fed will have a hard time beating Novak. I vote for Novak in four sets.
hobbled. And Novak happened.
luckystar,
Novak said in his on court interview that Cilic was carrying an ankle injury and that he did well to come out and play. I didn’t realize that there was any injury. I thought it might have been the five setters he had to play.
Yes, Novak happened. He came out firing on all cylinders and that was it. The best match he’s played by far in this tournament. He had it all going, the ROS, the serve, the DTL backhand, forehand, everything. He was sharp.
I like your prediction. If you read on some of the topic threads, many have gotten on the Fed bandwagon. There’s no question that he is playing extremely well right now. But I do think that Novak is the one player who can neutralize Fed’s strengths.
I am going to sleep on it and make my final prediction tomorrow.
I think Cilic injured his ankle in one of his matches. I saw that he twisted it but at that time didnt look serious but after a five sets match I think that aggravated it. Too bad for him, was hoping he could put up a good show, pushed Novak even when not winning. Cilic is another injury prone guy.
So what happened in Wimbledon when he beat Murray like that? Did he use sabr or is that only since cincy?
Cincy.
I vote for Rafa in 3. Considering that Djoko has struggled against RBA and Feli while Federer has cruised through the draw without getting broken. Add to that fact that Roger has beaten Djoko in str sets at Cincy, he should be riding high on confidence.
Unless Roger’s confidence goes down owing to Djoko’s ROS, Roger should win this in straights with 1 TB
Rafa?
For a player like Novak, I think we simply cant predict his level in the final based on his earlier rounds. Didnt he go the distance against Anderson at Wimbledon? He then raised his level in the final that not even Fed could cope.
I think the USO court is not even as quick as grass at Wimbledon, and minus the windy conditions this year at NY, i think Novak will be more confident this year. He has the wily Boris Becker as his coach cum advisor, I think theyre working on or even have already worked out how to deal with Fed’s so called SABR.
Cincy is a BO3 and i feel anything longer than a straight two sets win(in a BO3), Novak would have the upper hand. Fed to get three sets out of a BO5 against Novak (or Rafa) is imo very tough if not impossible. Novak could simply grind and grind until Fed couldnt sustain his aggression (the USO2011 SF is an example when Novak lost the first two sets).
I couldnt help but think of Fed at AO2014, playing so well beating Tsonga and then Murray consecutively and had the commies saying Fed was playing better than ever, but once he faced Rafa in the SF, he was soundly beaten; not even had a single BP chance until the third set. The same thing happened at Wimbledon this year, Fed played incredible and hammered Murray left right and centre, and that had us all fooled that Fed would also beat Novak in the final. I am still amazed now at how well Novak could raise his level in the final at the slams, even on grass to beat Fed on Fed’s favorite surface.
I think Novak has turned into a monster now, maybe even a bigger monster than Fed and Rafa! Scary! Will the true Rafa please show up, if not there may not be any hope of anyone stopping this monster that is Novak.
I mean Novak now could dominate on all surfaces, something not even Fed could do! Rafa couldnt do that either; he dominated on clay and grass in 2008 and 2010 but was second on HCs those two years. Fed doninated on grass and HCs for years but couldnt dominate on clay, was second on clay to Rafa from 2005-2008. This Novak could just dominate anywhere including indoor HCs!
I was not fooled about Wimbledon. I picked Novak over Fed despite all of the hype that he was at his best and couldn’t lose.
I am Nadal fan, but I am rooting for Fed for 18. I dont want Nole to get 10. He doesn’t belong to Fedal tier
I am with you.
why doesn’t he belong there?? he’s the only player who has been a real threat to rafa…
his 2011 form was unbelievable…
he’s a brilliant tennis player…
his consistency on all surfaces is astonishing..
Too true. Djokovic deserves lots of praise for his success. He is one of the greats in my opinion.
http://www.skysports.com/tennis/us-open/news/32833/9985560/roger-federers-new-tactics-slammed-by-boris-becker
Here is the article of Boris on Fed and his SABR
People are talking up Fed a lot. He may win it but it is not a given. Novak will have something to say about it. It is a 55-45 to me in Novak’s favour
BB said exactly what I was thinking as I watched Fed use the SABR in the second game of the match last night. He’s absolutely right that in his day, players would have gone right at him. That was the norm back then. I remember Lendl going right after someone like JMac who would come in with s&v game. I saw a youtube video in which Lendl went right at Vitas Gerulaitis and hit him in the forehand. He just fell backwards onto the court. But he got up and kept playing. It happened all the time. I was hoping that Stan would go right at Fed as a way to stop this thing. I don’t like it. I completely agree with BB on this.
Fed in his presser about Rafa..Novak.
Q. How would you characterize your rivalry with Novak? It’s going to be your 42nd match against each other. How would you describe the rivalry? Do you think he’s made you better? You’ve made him better? Is there one particular match, good reasons or bad reasons, a loss that sticks out for you from all of the matches you played?
ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I mean, I see more of a generation of, you know, Hewitt, Nalbandian, Agassi, Henman, guys I had trouble with at the beginning. I felt they made me better a player.
Same with my generation coming up, Ferrero, Safin, Roddick, Hewitt. I was trying to hang on with them and trying to be that next wave of players making it to the top, and everyone made it to world No. 1 before me.
I think that was very motivational for me. Made me a better player. I definitely think Rafa had a big effect, as well. Had to adjust and change so many things playing against him, preparing against him, thinking about it when I was practicing. He’s probably been the guy who challenged me the most with that.
Novak it’s been more straightforward, my opinion. That’s what I like about the rivalry. I think we both can — I don’t know how it is for him, but I feel like he doesn’t need to adjust his game as much, either. I think it’s just a straight shootout, and I think that’s the cool thing about our rivalry. It’s very athletic.
We both can handle each other’s — whatever we present to one another, and I think our matches, it’s very even. That’s it, I think. I don’t need to add more here.
This one is tough to call…it can easily go either way…both of them playing great tennis…I think Novak has mental edge over Fed…he may not allow Fed play his game…but I admire Fed’s rejuvenated tennis…he has adjusted once again and changed to be able to be more aggressive and to save energy…I think this time around Fed will be rewarded for his constant improvements…Fed in 4 is my pick…if Fed does not manage in 4 going to the fifth set is nothing but a sure thing for Novak and then he will win his 10th..
The Serbian commentator said last night: Novak will play in the final and by wining the title will come so close to Rafa with ONLY 4 GS titles behind…Rafa has had ONLY 3 GS titles behind Fed and it so looks unachievable now…
You know what natashao, I’m thinking let Fed or Novak win whatever they can now; for Rafa can win them back once hes ready next year. Im positive about that. I always feel a Rafa playing at a high level will find a way to deal with Fed un whatever form; and is way more consistent in a BO5 sets match than Novak.
Fed has been playing aggressively all year, its just that he had now added in his SABR from Cincy onwards. I really dont see anything much he has added to his game or how much better he can get than his Wimbledon SF vs Murray. I havent seen that Fed yet at this USO.
I saw some of his match vs Stan where in the first set he used his SABR a few times in a game, won two points I think and lost the rest. I really dont see this troubling Novak. Stan is not Novak and hes more error prone. I expect a Novak something like the Wimbledon final, really hard to beat.
You may as well be right…who knows…but I think it is not all on Novak’s racquet. If he allows Fed to play his S&V and shorten points Fed will have great chance to win…honestly, I don’t care who wins…but out of two “evils” I prefer not to listen to Nole’s fans talking down Rafa’s chances and endlessly talking about Nole exceeding Rafa’s records…it seems as for them there are only Rafa and Novak in the equation…you won’t hear them bashing Fed…and cheering against Rafa all the time…pathetic…
Last night I got to listen about Rafa’s lousy form, Rafa’s decline, etc. Why don’t they just leave him alone???
As Stan said, after Wimbledon Fed has come back at a completely different level.
Nole possibly to take a set but unlikely in my opinion.
Incredibly Fed to get his 18th is the pick.
#?TBD
Same I actually wouldn’t be that surprised if fed cleaned him out but it’s all about his start. If he gets off to bad start, Novak could turn the tide and win for sure. I’ll go with Federer in 4 high quality sets.
If you have visited other tennis forum, you would find the Novak fans bashing Fed as well. They’re eager to elevate Novak to be of Fedal’s status if not higher. If Novak really surpass Fedal’s achievements one day, so be it.
Novak will never surpass Rafa on clay and Fed on grass. Fedal have won the hearts of millions and I doubt Novak can match them. Seriously, Novak’s game may be efficient and it helps him to win and maybe dominates but Fed and Rafa play their different games that are more captivating imo.
I agree. Rafa and Fed are tennis!
Whoever wins tomorrow I will congratulate his fans. Let them enjoy the moment…
It was back in 2007 and 2008 I forecast many time on TennishTalk that imo Nole would be the person to challenge Rafa in the future. Leaving aside Davydenko, he was one of the few players who could hang tie to to toe with him in spite of the repeated losses. There were many times when Rafa eked out wins against Nole before Nole found a way through Rafa’s defences. Their meeting at RG this year was particularly significant. I’m trusting it was a one off and Rafa will find a way to prevent it happening again.
To conclude – when both men are at the top of their form at the same moment, I would back Rafa every time.
Unfortunately more often than not that hasn’t been the case over the last five years.
But why was their RG meeting this year significant? We all know this year Rafa is not his usual self. I would say had Novak beaten Rafa at RG2013, that would be more significant, not this year.
I would also say that Novak is the best of his generation, after Rafa, so its not surprising that hes the one challenging Fedal now when Fed is past his prime and Rafa is plagued with injuries. We saw a healthy Rafa time and again get the better of Novak, in 2012 clay season, 2013 and 2014 RG and also 2013 NA HC season. Im also not sure Rafa of 2012-2014 was better than the Rafa of 2008-2010.
All I can say is that Novak now is in a very good position, something like Fed in 2004-2007. Fed has it tougher from 2008 onwards whilst Novak had it tougher prior to 2011. Rafa OTOH, has the worst deal, having to tough it out with Fed at his peak during his own pre prime stage and then followed by Novak at his peak when Rafa himself is approaching the later stage of his prime.
lucky,
I agree with you about RG not being significant this year for the reason that Rafa was nowhere near his best. That was not the Rafa we have seen at RG who won 9 titles with only one loss. He just didn’t have it and Novak was able to take advantage.
You are correct that if Novak had beaten Rafa at the 2013 RG. that would have been a significant achievement. That was Rafa at his absolute best. But that’s precisely why Novak couldn’t beat him! 🙂
I guess for me it represented a watershed moment. The loss in 2009 to Soderling was worse true but other than that occasion always in the past Rafa had been able to battle through pain and injury to hang on to his RG crown. This year he was fit in body but not in mind and spirit. To simply state he was not at his best trivialises the enormity of that loss. It was nothing less than devastating for Rafa.
I dont think the loss at RG this year was enormous simply because most people expected it and I think Rafa expected it too. I think Rafa was not expecting any title win at any slam this year. Its unlike RG2014 when Rafa was all emotional during the victory ceremony while his national anthem was being played.
To me it would be more enormous if Rafa were to lose it last year as that was most probably Rafa’s last chance of having a five in a row at a slam, having missed his chance at RG2009. He finally joined Fed and Borg as only players having 5 in a row at a slam, in the open era.
Also, having lost at the AO last year, he certainly wont want the FO to slip away from him too hence his emotions after winning it.
RG this year was not significant and Rafa knows that and Novak knows that too. He said it in as many words that this was not the standard Rafa he plays on clay at RG.
I agree Novak realised he got lucky this year and I was relieved he was subdued in his celebration. Unlike the time when he broke Rafa’s eight year reign at Monte Carlo and was patently gloating over the fact. Mind you Rafa wiped the smirk off his face repeatedly for the rest of the year.
Jeez. Why can’t autocorrect mind its own business. I wrote toe to toe so it was corrected to tie to toe. What’s so irritating is the change doesn’t show up while you’re typing.
Federer:
“I definitely think Rafa had a big effect, as well. Had to adjust and change so many things playing against him, preparing against him, thinking about it when I was practicing. He’s probably been the guy who challenged me the most with that.”
Fed says it as it is. It is still the case that Fed against anyone else is a far easier prospect for Roger than playing against Rafa. So the TMF Fed wouldn’t cut it against Rafa.
We may never know.
#ClosingWindow
We do know, because Rafa started beating Fed regularly in his TMF days.
You said still but that was then and this is now. They are not the same players at the moment in case you missed it.
Nadal was a very unique match-up for Roger so he practised accordingly. It’s what great players do. He had to work it out in practice just like any other sport where you keep your tough spots in mind when you practise, and in this case especially because there aren’t many lefties on tour. I don’t even know what this is trying to convey. Like Roger’s been saying generally, with Novak it’s a shoot out and a straight up issue of ‘may the best man win.’ With Nadal it was a compromise that only Roger had to make. I can’t imagine that being fun for anyone. It’s part of what makes him so great. Most men in his place would’ve given up altogether and enjoyed retirement.
Djoker plays efficient tennis but it is boring to watch. The only time Djoker plays watchable tennis is against Rafa because Rafa stretches him.
I humble disagree here. Fed Novak matches are more exciting than Novak Rafa. They end points quicker and are more innovative and lot more winners get hit compared to Novak Rafa.
Novak Rafa are more about endurance , not necessarily variety and shot making.
Fed Rafa have brilliant contrasts and shot making too.
fair enough sanju! is clearly a matter of personal taste…
i love rafa nole myself because of the gladiatorial aspect to their rivalry where the level of intensity is just astonishing sometimes…
don’t think that’s matched in rafa fed or nole fed…..
but all of these rivalries are amazing …
also the fact that so many people have rafa nole and rafa fed as first choice does show how much the tennis public is missing rafa at his best…
oh sorry sanju, i thought you were replying to the post i left below about the SI poll top rivalries…
I guess it depends on surface and also the form of the players. RG 2011 and RG2012 between Fed and Novak were miles apart in terms of shotmaking and entertainment value. I would say Fedal matches were great in the past but since 2010, some of their matches were more lopsided or one sided.
Fed vs Novak now are more entertaining than in the past and more entertaining than Fedal matches these days except a few. Rafa vs Novak have some great shotmaking too, like USO2010, Montreal 2013, FO2012-2014. However their BO3 matches are more lopsided favoring Novak so not much great shotmaking involved.
Federer-Nole matches are more entertaining to watch than any other matchup among the Big 4.
Competitive, attacking tennis with plenty of variety. Nole-Rafa more or less turns into a baseline slugfest with little element of surprise.
Nole rarely plays with so much intensity right from the start and aggression when he is playing anyone else than Roger, even Muzz and Rafa.
Because as Roger said, it is a shootout, neither needs to adjust or adapt, they can play their natural styles.
Every match with Muzz is the most boring amongst the Top 4 with Novak Murray taking the cake for being the most boring slufest.
towards the end of last year there was a poll done on SI as to the reader’s favourite rivalry among the big 4…
rafa -nole was first, closely followed by rafa-fed, then a good chunk of the vote for nole-fed
all the rivalries involving murray got a tiny tiny proportion of the vote…
i agree about nolandy being the worst…
this also shows how important a healthy and fully firing rafa is to tennis as he dominates in terms of the fave rivalries…
Rafa-Nole could have been said to be the best rivalry 2 yrs back. But in the past 2 yrs Fed and Nole rivalry has come on par with it if not ahead of it.
Rafa-Fed ceased to be a rivalry 4-5 yrs back. It can hardly be brought into context with above 2 rivalries.
I think some people think the Fedal rivalry is one sided in favour of Rafa so not as interesting as the Rafaole one which is far more evenly matched.
I am positive and hopeful Rafa will be back next year. Novak is not going to maintain a very high standard indefinately, he is bound to suffer let downs like he did after 2011 -2014 where he lost many GS finals.
Fed if he does not win USO..not sure how much will he keep trying..I think he will not just give up till he wins another one. But what if he does win, will he stop?
abhirf..You are a Roger fan..what is your pick for tomorrow?
And what do you think about Rafa? Do you think he will come back?
I’m not really sure to be quite honest. Going by their rivalry especially here at the USO, it’s going to be a pretty tight contest.
The keys to the match in my opinion are :
1) How well Nole serves tomorrow? If he serves the way he did in last 2 Wimby finals, I don’t think Fed will be able to beat him.
2) How well Fed is timing his FH’s? His FH has been the shot that has betrayed him in the past 2 wimbledon finals especially this years. Going by the way he is serving these days, If Roger is hitting his FH well, he will get the win in my opinion irrespective of what Nole brings to the table.
I hope it pans out like USO 2010 or 2011 semis. Though 2010 semi was poor in qulaity as both had various ups n downs.
2011 was better but 3rd and 4th were poor there too.
As far as Rafa is concerned, I don’t really know what to expect of him.
In my opinion, Rafa has been the cause of his recent struggles. Few points that I would like to point out :
1) Rafa pushed the tour players too much with his baseline prowess and exposing the weakness of his opponents BH. That has resulted in the development of tour. Nowadays, there are hardly few players wit a bad BH. Coupled that with the improved fitness and racquet technology, the players are not afraid of engaging in baseline duel with him.
2) His frequent losses have given others the belief that they can beat him.
3) He allows his opponents to play their game in order to get his own rhythm. If someone gets that many chances, they will ultimately pay u back for it.
4) His adamant approach to the game. His FH has been great over the years, so much so that he relied entirely on his FH to do the trick for him. His BH and service have not evolved the way it should have that force him to put in extra miles to hold his own service game when his counterparts are doing it comfortably and spending less energy for the same.
Even after possesing good volleying skills and soft touch, he rarely employs them to throw off his opponents and keeps grinding in a baseline fest in a 20+ shot rally when he could have finished it 10 shots earlier. He hardly tries to experiment in his matches which manifests in his lack of confidence to change things up when his FH is not clicking.
These are just some of my opinions. Of course, he has brought all the laurels with the same, but it was always going to be difficult the moment he lost his biggest strength.
I’m more or less convinced that he is going down just like Roger, when Fed’s FH started fading. Only difference is Fed had other strengths his serve and variety of shots to rely on too. Rafa hasn’t really showcased any of his.
I do think Rafa will win another major (maybe 2), but that’s about it. He will need to improvise to do that too. All is not on his racquet anymore.
I agree Rafa is not experimenting much , eg he has very great volleying skills, he should S&V a bit more..should use drop shots more..
However I think he has worked on his BH over the years. He is not running around his BH to hit the FH like he used to do it before.
I am very curious to see what he does to overcome the slump.
He had much solid BH 4-5 yrs back. He has added variety to it yes, but hardly makes a push wit it these days.
abhirf,
I appreciate hearing a viewpoint from someone who is not a Rafa fan. You also happen to be a reasonable Fed fan, so there is some of that bias that informs their opinions. I do feel that Rafa has become too predictable in his shot making, maybe relying on the forehand too much. He hasn’t been hitting his backhand consistently well this year. That shot when it’s on really gives him another dimension. It’s obvious that his serve has degraded and is not nearly as effective.
Your analysis has given me something to think about. I do think Rafa will have one more great run in him. Whether that means one or two or maybe three, I can’t say.
Sorry, I meant to say there is NONE of that bias that informs their opinions.
Nadal, more than anything else, needs an intent to attack. Having the skill/technique is not enough. Not even close. If there’s no risk there’s no reward. He may not have played so many matches as Federer but he has a considerable number of them anyway. How long can he continue to be content with relying on his defense? Of course, you never know, he might just recover and go for another run but you can see how much it takes out of him in the long run. I won’t be surprised if it affects his post-career life as well. I’ve never seen anyone who punishes their body like he does. Novak to some extent does that but he can clue in to finishing points quicker much better than Nadal when required (plus he’s hyper-flexible which is an advantage in tennis).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshkatzowitz/2015/09/12/u-s-open-finals-three-reasons-why-novak-djokovic-will-beat-roger-federer/
A good article
By the way that SABR is actually disturbing when you look at it. He is moving when the guy is serving. How is that not distracting? Look at the video. I am more than curious to see what Djoker will do. I hope he hits direct at Roger, it will add more spice to the final and make it tasty 🙂
Djoker will get rattled and throw in a few double faults.?
Sanju,
I have already posted some thoughts about that tactic in response to the interview link you posted with BB. I don’t like it. To me it’s kind of bush league. I really hope that Novak comes out with an answer. But the ESPN commies were saying yesterday that the problem with finding an answer, is that there is no way to know when Fed will use it.
Sanju, here is the other side of the article.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshkatzowitz/2015/09/12/u-s-open-finals-three-reasons-why-roger-federer-will-beat-novak-djokovic/
http://espn.go.com/tennis/usopen15/story/_/id/13634493/tennis-said-roger-federer-justifies-sneak-attack
Here is an article (very good one) on Roger. He talks about being adamant and being ready to change and how to strike a balance.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/this-is-34-roger-federer-will-not-go-away-thankfully/
He had much solid BH 4-5 yrs back. He has added variety to it yes, but hardly makes a push with it these days.
Nole does play an enterprising brand of tennis. Though, only neutral fans can appreciate it.
Just like Roger’s and Rafa’s fans have been lamented as boring by the counter group.
Nole is unlucky enough to go through 2 legends at the same time.
^I meant Roger and Rafa being lamented as boring by the counter fans.
I’m sorry to digress and also for asking but, has anybody commented on Blake’s arrest? I don’t see a thread….. Seriously, how can that happen?
you make great and detailed points about rafa a few posts above, abhirf
if there will be a comeback from rafa it will not be easy for the reasons you mentioned and for getting older
on top of that there is the thing that few on this forum seem willing to see with cold-blooded realism: if rafa had a physical problem such as a mono or an injury that seems easy to look at objectively but rafa has an anxiety condition somewhere on the scale of low to extreme, and it is not near the low side, with some OCD traits among the more readily seen symptoms. there is _NO_ way to explain his behaviour on court so often this year by saying it is no more than lack of confidence, recent successes, match readiness. He has alluded to this in an understated way, and why should he say more? I don’t envy him having to field questions on this from journalists anywhere in the world he plays. He has also said he wasn’t going the professional psychological route, and will keep finding ways to deal with this more or less on his own. His choice. I don’t think it is an effective or wise one and maybe the only one that makes sense to him or that he can see himself live through. Too bad, even though I respect him for making his own decisions and his thought process. Too bad, because if he did get this treated to the point it would have been reduced to a minor very manageable impediment then he would be able to do his very best (as he knows to do) to improve his tennis in any way possible to him his older tennis years. Roger did.
Chloro – Why are you hell bent on diagnosing him with a disorder? I do not think u know him to make any such claims? Sitting from the comfort of your house, u diagnosed Rafa as having a disorder? Time and again u say such things, I think it is not good . I cannot understand why anyone is quick to say anything with authority about a person they have never interacted or don’t know and especially something medical.
You think a top athlete and professional who has a doctor travelling with him all times has no one pointing out to him if he has this issue? And if he is having a disorder he will be playing at a top level for 10 years battling so many odds, injuries, making 3 comebacks from serious situations ? Tennis is an individual sport and it is incredibly tuff at the top, if a guy has battled it for 10 years and performed top notch, let us choose to see what is shown to us rather than make inferences please.
Also it is okay to comment on anyone’s FH, BH, serve, technique as that is the sport and we see it as it is ..it is definitely not cool to make comments on a medical condition or disorder when one is not sure about it and definitely not cool making insinuations about it.
I am speaking up for Rafa, but if such a comment would have been made on Roger or Novak too, I would have defended it. It is just not right .
Every person has anxiety..faces anxiety at different moments in life..every person has ups and downs in life. No one is hitting sixer’s all the time in life. Rafa is going through a bad phase and patch in his career now. One’s trials make you the person you are as they gift you with endurance and this trial of Rafa will give him strength in future .
Rafa shows classic signs of ocd and generalized anxiety disorder when left untreated typically just gets worse. Nobody is diagnosing him here.
The Rafa time violation rule change and subjectively strict reinforcement after Roger complained has been an effective strategy to accelerate and exacerbate his anxiety.
This combined with Federer’s new racquet and renewed unsurpassed level has been quite effective in putting Fed in a position to add to his record slam count and in doing so regaining his GOAT status.
Sanju,
I think you make some excellent points. That’s why I have stopped discussing any possible anxiety disorder. It is not possible to accurately diagnose this condition without interviewing and evaluating the person and doing the requisite tests. Also, Rafa has made it clear that he is not going to use the services of any sports psychologist.
It is true that we all have anxiety issues at points in our lives. It’s part of the human condition. But I think that the best point you made was the fact that Rafa has performed at such a high level for ten years in this sport and accomplished so much. That cannot be ignored. Well said!
abhirf, I agree with some of your points, but Rafa is playing well atm he’s just got to bring back the dogged killer instinct.
To get that killer instinct back he will need more confidence in his own game. For that he will need to trust in his ability and his shots which is exactly what I have been talking about. Maybe he will lose 1 or 2 matches trying something new, but it will eventually pay him in the long run.
He just needs to look at Nole and Fed for the same especially Nole. The guy hardly has any weakness now.
One more thing that he can do is just stop playing for results and start playing for the love of the game and try to enjoy the game on court. The game will reap him the rewards eventually.
Nole can’t do overhead an smash to save his life and he is not that good at the net. Let’s not get too carried away. When Nole and Fed have had to cope with the injuries and time out that Rafa has had to cope with Rafa will start taking lessons from them.
Sure he doesn’t kill them the way Roger does but he is more authorative and confident while going for his volleys and smashes. He doesn’t suck at them the way he used to 2 yrs back.
He may not have converted it into his strength , but they are not his weakness either.
abhirf,
Your first two sentences sum it up quite well. That’s the crux of the issue. Watching Novak play so well against Cilic, showing off all of the aspects of his game, reminded me that he really doesn’t seem to have any weaknesses.
So many times I have watched a Rafa who doesn’t seem to be having fun on the court. He certainly didn’t look happy after that loss to Dustin Brown at Wimbledon, or to Dolgo at Queens, or to Feli at Cincy and to Fog in the USO. Those losses are taking quite a toll.
sanju,
with all due respect, but some thing are plain to see, if you are willing and know even a little about such conditions. no need to be a medical professional. for example: rafa’s on -court rituals esp pre-serving rituals have multiplied over the years, and he has many others. add to this that he has often sweated a lot when there was no physical reason just then to sweat a lot, not a lof of exertion, not hot outside… this is almost certainly from much higher nervousness / anxiety than regular in match nervousness, there were many times when he was nearly frozen mentally and physically in matches against opponents that normally should not trouble him… do you ever see other players in this situation? when the flight-or-fight response in the body gets revved up to too high a level, and if someone has that kind of worsening condition then you can have this type of response to stress…. the brain’s rational thinking, among other things, shuts down… tihs is a survival mechanism: when the organism of a person or animal is in a life-threatening situation the flight or flight response is there to instantly ready the body to do one or the other (or to try to be invisible to a predator and so be still) and to decide among two (three) black-and-white choices… and so it shuts down rational verbal careful thinking or the kind of thinking rafa otherwise does so well during matches adjusting his game to what is necessary. shall I go on?
rafa has always been one of those people who worry about many things 10x more than the average person, we know that. Just read his biography, it’s full of this. Those who over-worry, bless their caring heart, quite often also have anxiety issues and not uncommonly of more severe levels. There is an entire scale to this from mild to extreme.
rafa himself has spoken about anxiety…. in an understated way… but that fits.
I can think of no other player where all these signs are present. Yes, we see them being nervous sometimes, lose confidence, and so on, but nothing like this. Even though they too undergo the intense pressure of the matches so many times a year.
These are things that many people can recognise easily, without being from a medical profession. Besides that I will say again that my wife has a professional background in psychology and comes to the same conclusions.
So had hawekeye’s wife with a similar professional background.
Sanju,
I do not mean any disrespect to rafa, on the contrary. And I equally do not mean any disrespect to you or any other tennis fan.
I repeat: if what troubled rafa was a body-related problem: body illness or injury then there is no denial from anyone once the facts are known.
difficulties with the mind, however, are (still) often viewed differently in our society than difficulties with the body. rationally that makes no sense.
Bravo chloro.
Chloro, make your comments short and succint. Life is too short. I’ll never get the time spent reading your post back. 🙂
nadline,
I do, sometimes, manage to write succinct posts 🙂
I didn’t have time, as they say, to edit that post down.
But if you don’t care for these views about rafa’s anxiety, please, just skip.
Some good points and some truth in these statements but I believe Rafa did improve his serve, net play and aggression in 2013 prior to his multiple problems in 2014 and increased anxiety which led him to regress back behind the baseline.
No this is less about Rafa failing to evolve his game but more to do with what’s going on between his ears. Even Rafa agrees.
Agree.
I also think that Nadal is trying to go through a wall. He needs to change or add something new, as he’s done time and time again in his career. I don’t know why he doesn’t see it that way now.
Pennetta wins!! Actually that was a pretty good final. Lots of good tennis.
Pennetta announced her retirement!
Good decision. I mean she won the biggest title of her life and called it quits.She anyway is engaged to Fabio and wants to marry soon and start her family asap.
That was enjoyable to watch and what a refreshing prize giving. No tedious speeches from the men in suits. No endless litany of thanks trotted out by the two players. Just sheer joy from both girls. For good measure I swear Roberta was as pleased for Flavia as if she’d won herself.
Just see this tweet from Boris 5 minutes back. Can you believe this? Boris is literally playing mind games with Roger on Novaks behalf? I wonder what strategy they have
Boris Becker ‏@TheBorisBecker 2m2 minutes ago
Let’s have some fun with #SABR since it caused a lot of headlines this week….
I think BB should quit it with the mind games. That never works. It’s only going to make Fed even more determined to win tomorrow. He needs to shut up.
This kind of mind games is disgusting, that’s why he’s best suited to the ND camp.
I think BB is saying Nole will sabr him back.
That’s all well and good as far as I am concerned. I just think that BB doesn’t have to advertise it. Let it be a surprise when they are on the court.
That was something else to see Pennetta win and then announce her retirement! What a way to go out! Congratulations!
Popcorn ready….Fed in 4!
It would be imperative for Federer to not get involved in many long baseline rallies with Novak. I feel he will try his ultra aggressive game plan right from the beginning. But if it backfires we might see a similar match like their Wimbledon 2015 final with Novak being the eventual winner in 3 or 4 sets. At his age, Federer’s level can fluctuate drastically between matches and even during a match.
In their last two Wimbledon finals, Fed’s serve was OK, nothing special. But he couldn’t get a read on Novak’s serve all through the match. Novak hits a high percentage of first serves. Besides, Novak usually wins a lot of points on his second serve. So, its not easy to break him on these faster courts. At the same time, Fed also doesn’t get broken often as long as he keeps serving well which he does on most occasions. That leads to one or two tri-breakers or 7-5 kind of score in almost every match these two play these days. A long set or two takes its toll on Fed more and it leads to lapses in concentration in the next one or two sets which he surrenders without much fight. I am expecting a similar story to unfold tomorrow unless Fed manages to win the first two sets. Then also the match may go to five sets, but Fed will still have chances to win. But in all likelihood, its going to be Novak who will be the last man standing.
Novak in 4.
During this tournament, Novak has won 66% of his second serves, where as Federer’s has won 59% on an average. In case of Federer, this stat will be even worse in the final as Novak has such a deadly ROS. To compensate this, Federer needs to have very good serving day (more than 70% of first serve).
He will! Fed is ready!
And BB making “fun” of Fed’s new return tactics only shows that Nole’s camp is afraid. It exposes their own weaknesses…BB better shut up and start biting his nails as that is what he will do during the finals…
BB arrogance and induced ridicule do no good to Novak….
My take on the Novak camp – I’m sure they’re ready for Fed. BB just doing his job of playing mind games to help Novak. I don’t think Novak needs much help though, it’s not like he hasn’t faced the SABR of Fed prior to this. To me Fed revealed his weapon too soon at Cincy, giving Novak’s team time to think of a counter strategy.
I like the Nadal camp better, not revealing anything until the final of FO2014 with Rafa’s one two punch and FH DTL strategy that Novak couldn’t solve (the problem) on the court during the match.
Lucky, I think Fed will use it as an element of surprise and not very frequently. It may or may not win him the point, but it will be in Novak’s mind all the time while serving. Let us see if this tactic has any impact on how Novak delivers his second serve. I wont be surprised if he makes some double faults at crucial junctures of the match like he did in cincy. Neither will I be surprised if Novak finds a way the negate its effect.
The only problem with the SABR is that Novak won’t know when Fed will use it. I don’t see Novak double faulting. He’s been serving extremely well with both his first and second serves. This is not Cincy. This is the USO. This is a best of five match. It may well be true that Fed gave it away too early. But there is also a possibility of Fed putting some new wrinkle in his attack. He won’t want Novak to know what’s coming either. It’s like a chess match.
Even bigger was Nadal camp not revealing his deadly serve of USO2010 before the tourney started
Sorry what was this one two punch and FH DTL strategy? Rafa always tries to go for FH DTL with Novak, it is his money shot against Novak.
I saw him using body serve a lot against Novak in FO 2014 which was a surprise.
Rafa was going FH DTL when Novak was expecting a CCFH and so Novak was camping at his BH corner waiting for the CC shot and so he was late time and again to rush to his FH corner to return Rafa’s DTL shot. The DTL shot wasnt a running FH shot but Rafa was camping at his own FH corner and made Novak guessing which way he was going.
Both men are playing for high stakes. I’m staying with my theory (which has held up time and time again) it will be the one to whom it matters most who will blink first. In this instance I would say Djokovic has the most to lose. For Federer the win would be the icing on the cake.
Federer in 4
Why does Djoko have more to lose ed? He is not the defending champion here? He has already locked the YE No 1. Fed has a lot to lose too as he is trying for No 18 now since past 12 slams.
Sanju. Fed has secured his place in history regardless of the outcome of this match. Djokovic has already suffered a double whammy by failing to RG and complete his career Slam and then missed out on the elusive Golden Masters crown at Cincy. Ergo, he badly wants this win to prepare for another try to own all four Slams simultaneously.
The 4 in a row thing again will get ultra tiring. Already been there and suffered in 2011-2012 a lot..Not again with all those Djoko bots screaming from their roof tops.
Fear so Sanju. He wants that feather in his cap badly because neither Fed no Rafa managed it.
Sanju,
I agree with you. Novak doesn’t have anything to lose. He’s already won two slams and has year end #1 locked up. I see it the way you do. In fact, I think there is a great deal of pressure on Fed to get this. How long has he been trying to win another slam? Rafa is going to come back next year. This is his time.
@ Mark
I am of the same mind provided it doesn’t go to a 5th set If Fed plays with the same carefree freedom (with or without the SABR) I am certain it will force Djokovic into making errors and he will get rattled as he has in most of his matches this fortnight. Woe betide him if he retaliates by gunning for Federer. Stan tried that and look what happened.
Its a slam final so Fed wont be carefree. Who knows how many more slam finals left for him? Of course Fed will be nervous too. He seemed carefree vs Murray at Wimbledon but wasnt the same when in the final.
Ive made the mistake of underestimating Novak so Im not going to do that again. Novak somehow can raise his level when he needs to. I think the only place Novak is/was overcome by nerve and couldnt raise his level is/was at the FO, for obvious reason.
It’s a question of degree. I agree Fed will be less carefree than we’ve seen so far but I am still convinced he will cause Djokovic to be more tense and prone to errors – as long as the match doesn’t go the distance.
I’ll bet that the Novak of Wimbledon 2015 will turn up to play. To me its Fed who wants it more, not Novak. Novak has time on his side, unlike Fed. Fed missed a very good chance last year so he will be more eager to get this one.
This is what I am thinking. Even though I am going back and forth with my prediction, I sense that Novak will come out and play some great tennis. I also absolutely agree that Fed wants it more. Novak will have his chances. He’s in the prime of his career.
Going back to the Ladies Championships, the presentation ceremony was tailored made for Serena with 2 African American women in attendance just like the presentation ceremony at the AO 2009 had been tailored made for Roger beating Rafa.
The Americans did well in swallowing their disappointment with dignity which the Australians couldn’t manage.
^^^lol. You’re right the crowd were exemplary during the match and the presentation. In fact throughout the tournament I was impressed by the even handed support shown by the crowd to all the competitors (Donald Young matches being the exception).
It didn’t happen during the final but I’ve been puzzled why in all other matches the spectators were constantly coming and going. Surely the marshals and security guys should have kept them under better control. The poor referees had to keep calling for them to sit down in the nearest seat so play could resume.
I’ve heard commies say the USO is loud and that’s the way it is, players just have to get used to people moving around with loud announcers promoting all sorts of things around the grounds and music between change of ends.
I thought they will get Steffi to present the award to Serena. Maybe Steffi declined as Steffi has happily given it all up and just does not want to be in the limelight anymore. She is happy being a mother and wife, running her charity and ofcourse managing her business with Andre.
I don’t get the idea that the player whose record has been broken should be happy about it. Who wants to see someone displace them in the annals of tennis history. I hope Rafa never has to present a trophy to another player surpassing his record at the FO…………he sure won’t be doing it happily.
I am still torn as to whom to root for in todays final. I was clear in both Wimby’s that I was supporting Novak over Fed so that Fed stays at 7 in Wimby and does not inch closer to Rafa’s 9 at RG . Somehow I am inching towards Fed here. Either way its choosing between devil and deep sea.
Reason I am inching towards Fed here is so that Novak gets stopped 🙂 and the chance of Rafa catching 17 now looks very remote, so 18 does not matter . If he manages to win 1 more slam, anything is possible thereafter as the confidence will come rushing back.
sanju, I agree with you. Fed has reached the level of diminishing returns in adulation from the media. One more slam would be neither here nor there, but if Djoker wins, the new media mantra about him is that he is super human, and a player from another planet, both of which do not really ring true. True he has achieved the best results in recent years, but as for being from another planet, I don’t think so.
@sanju & nadline…you said it…I was thinking exactly the same thing…
BTW you guys think Fed will retire if he wins 18 or will he go on and on? 🙂
No he won’t go until after the Olympics.
He wont retire so soon now that Novak is another threat to his slam record.
It makes no difference to us or Rafa who of Fed or Novak wins this USO. However, I cant stand the press or media or those commies who are mostly Fed supporters; just imagine how they would behave if Fed wins this. Theyre simply unbearable!
I agree with this. It will be unbearable is Fed does win #18.
Actually, adulation for Fed has reached saturation point not the point of diminishing returns.
If by diminishing returns you mean results, then Roger is still doing better than Nadal at the moment. If by diminishing returns you mean a reduction in fan base, I suggest you visit the Open once.
And more importantly, a player like Federer never loses his value. Borg didn’t and Roger won’t. They’re both the cornerstones of their respective generations. In fact, the bigger the underdog you make him, the more people will pull for him.
+1.
For a Rafan, nadline10 spends an unhealthy portion of her time discussing Roger Federer. Anybody would think he mattered!
Lucky: For me that could be a blessing. Koenig’s jaw will drop so often and so low it might never shut again ?
Ricky’s Poll now has almost twice as many votes for Fed to win than for Djokovic. It can’t be explained by multiple voting because this site screens for that trick.
What odds are the bookies’ giving.
Novak has been reduced to a very slight 4/5 favourite no doubt due to increased betting on Roger after his lethal performances this week. Roger is 6/5.
If 2015 Novak shows up, Roger will definitely win. Stan said Roger is at another level since Wimbly. I’ve said the same.
That and Novak can’t typically handle the conditions in the finals at the USO.
The crowd will have a big impact.
I’ll be pulling for the spoiler but impressive if Fed does it. He will regain his GOAT status in my view if he does.
Roger in three most likely, if not four.
Ajde Nole!!!!!!
#NID
#LetsDoThis
#NoleFam
#Idemooooo
ed, i can remember just before the wimby final the bbc did one of their polls asking who would win and there was a huge result in favour of fed – something like 75% to 25% – i can remember roddick who was doing the commentary with henman saying ‘with all due respect to the viewers you are out of your mind if you think those are the real odds…’
is more a poll about popularity no??
Polls are more a wish list than realism. Especially for Federer , it is always the case.
Ed, it is explained by the fact that Federer has many admirers who visit this site but leave the comments section to the more rabid breed of Rafan who made the old tennistalk site their own domain (and which, similarly, returned Federer atop many an opinion poll) before it was understandably discontinued. And that happened when Nadal was in his pomp. Given that vamosbrigade leads the way among Nadal fan sites, it is to be hoped that the Grandstand will accommodate a spectrum of views especially now that RN is not the story. Otherwise you have to wonder how long it can realistically continue. It has reached the point where in-fighting among the Rafans is now the norm, a classic end-of-empire trope.
I give it six months.
Nah Rafa will be back to form before that.
I’ve often said Roger looks good in the earlier rounds because his weak draw made him look good until he hits Rafa (or an in-form Nole).
This time is different.
Amy: Agree it is probably driven by wishful thinking. It is still strange though because this site is not awash with Fedfans and the comments by posters are more evenly split.
yes is curious ed….maybe fedfans are coming from other sites and voting?? also, if you vote once you can clear cookies and vote again…sneak attack by roger fans??
SABR are all the rage this season ?
amy,
I didn’t know that about clearing the cookies.
Haha true I actually think I might be the only fed fan here. Is anyone else pulling for slam number 18 for Roger?
Tennis fan, ed numbers, Abhirf to name a few are pulling for Roger. A lot of rafans dislike Nole and would rather see Federer win than Nole get his tenth.
I’m pulling for Nole but will be more than happy for Roger if he wins tonight like I predicted two weeks ago.
For me what it really comes down to in my opinion today is nerves and Roger simply doesn’t give an inch mentally.
Nole is good but it only takes getting tight on a few critical points to make the difference between winning and losing.
^^As we’ve seen so often
fed is mentally stronger than nole??that’s debatable…ok nole will get worked up about the crowd being on his back and that could be his undoing but fed is capable of getting rattled by nole’s ros in particular as we saw at wimby…
seem to remember that fed got very tight in the first set tie-breaker at wimby…if he does that again today then nole will probably win..
oh and in case anyone is in doubt about who i am supporting…
adje nole!!
All players get tight. Even the best ones do. In the end, it’s a matter of semantics because you or I don’t know what goes on between a player’s ears. Federer has always been the one with more to lose-a side effect of the career he built-so the pressure on him is often multiplied as compared to the other guy. I’ll say he’s done an excellent job.
Roger a mental monster? You serious? He has lost 9 slam finals and lost many matches being match points up.
Roger is definitely not the mentally strongest player on tour.
That’s not really an indicator of anything actually. Even on Roger’s worst days, it used to be damn hard to beat him. So everyone came looking like a hero against him every time they scored a victory. He’s made finals where he was far from his best. Both 2008/09 have those.
Does not change the fact that he has lost many many important matches in his career to both Rafa and Nole. He is not mentally the strongest player on tour by any long shot.
Most of the matches he’s lost to Novak are after he turned 30. So they’re not even indicators of mental toughness as far as I’m concerned. It’s a still a good and a very even match-up, even at majors.
Nadal was a straight up poor match for him in core, technical sense so he was under even more pressure and then he got mono and the rivalry turned completely. Happens. He’s still the best as far as I’m concerned. It’s far easy to look ‘mentally tough’ when you’re a defensive player, playing on slow courts mostly, against a favourable match-up. For an attacker in an era tailor-made for backboarders, I repeat, Roger is the best.
Lets just say he is a mindblowing frontrunner but not the greatest when the chips are down in a match
https://twitter.com/gaigar210/status/642665086876798976
I like it. A lot
love it!!!
#LMAO!
A terrific US open for India and Switzerland already with Paes and Mirza winning mixed doubles and doubles with Hingis 🙂
and France!