Nadal decimates Wawrinka for La Decima at Roland Garros

June 11, 2017 Ricky Match recaps 349

The King of Clay’s throne is abdicated no more.

And nobody even came close from preventing his latest ascension.

Rafael Nadal completed a perfect run to this 10th French Open title and first since 2014 when he won his seventh straight-set match of the fortnight, erasing Stan Wawrinka 6-2, 6-3, 6-1 on Sunday afternoon. Nadal triumphed after only two hours and fives minutes of play.

This one–like the former world No. 1’s six matches before it throughout the fortnight–was never competitive.

Wawrinka held his first two service games but lost four games in a row starting at 2-2 to end the set in unceremonious fashion. Nadal stormed to a 3-0 lead in the second and easily consolidated the break, without even being pushed to deuce on serve at any point during the middle frame. From there it was all over for Wawrinka, who donated his serve once again to begin the third and was also broken on two more occasions thereafter.

“For sure I was nervous this morning about the match, about the final, about playing against him,” the third-ranked Swiss admitted. “But when I enter the court, I enjoy it and I appreciate [being] in the final of a Grand Slam here [at the] French Open. That’s always something special, and you need to see that also from the big picture.

“For sure this score wasn’t good, the match wasn’t good, but at the end of the day there’s a lot of positives to take from the last few weeks.”

Wawrinka had been in the midst of a 10-match winning streak before he ran into Nadal. He was coming off a title in Geneva, won his first five matches at Roland Garros all in straight sets, and toppled top-seeded Andy Murray in a five-set semifinal.

But Wawrinka was no match for Nadal, who more than doubled his unforced errors(12) with winners (27), faced just one break point, and never got broken.

“I know Wawrinka is a very dangerous opponent, so my mentality was there all the time thinking that I cannot give him the chance to be back in the match,” Nadal explained. “Because then he starts to hit so strong from the baseline and he’s able to produce amazing shots.

“The only thing that I know is I am playing well now. I am happy. I am enjoying every week and I want to continue and I’m gonna try to keep working hard to try to enjoy more beautiful weeks.”

The 31-year-old has enjoyed plenty of them at the French Open, but never has Nadal been more dominant than he was this time. He lost a grand total of 35 games throughout the event, the second fewest by any man at any major in the best-of-five-set Open Era (since 1968).

349 Comments on Nadal decimates Wawrinka for La Decima at Roland Garros

  2. Hi, all fellow rafafans and all fellow tennis fans! Thanks sharing your thoughts, sticking around and celebrating. What an achievement!! I could swear that even the trophy looked happy – as if reunited with an old friend, although it knew from past experiences what was coming 🙂 🙂 🙂 And maybe it hasn’t been bitten the last time…
    So nice to see Uncle Toni taking part in the trophy ceremony. Hard to believe that he won’t be Rafa’s full time coach anymore. I was often critical of him and his methods. But he provided so much stability and emotional support. How great that he can retire while Rafa won another slam trophy. And I’m in awe what Carlos Moya has already achieved with Rafa. Team Rafa couldn’t have chosen a better coach. Rafa’s serve has really become a dangerous asset and the shortened rallyes might prolong Rafa’s active years. If Rafa stays healthy the sky is the limit. Or so it seems right now 😉
    For those who moan that Rafa’s slam count is too clay heavy: hey, the guy almost won the AO, too, and was in another two hard court finals! Only Roger was better on hard court this year.
    The RG title and how it was won should give Rafa a tremendous amount of confidence for the rest of the season. While I don’t see Rafa as a favorite it would be nice if a relaxed Rafa could do some damage again at Wimby. He loves the tournament after all.

    Reply

    • He has lost the following number of non clay slam finals:
      3 Wimbledon
      3 AO
      1 USO
      i.e 7 non clay finals
      so if we look at the total number of finals, he has reached 12 non clay finals and 10 clay finals. Except AO 14, he has lost the non clay finals to Federer or Djokovic.

      Reply

    • littlefoot,

      I appreciate your thoughts. It has been very special to be here with other Rafa fans on this historic occasion. What a day! I really liked that they had Uncle Toni participate and give Rafa that special trophy. I have been critical of him, but also understood that he was a big part of Rafa’s success. He played a role in Rafa’s career and deserves credit for what he has achieved.

      When Rafa first held the trophy and raised it, then he kind of cradled it in his arms and kissed it. I thought that was so touching. A beautiful moment!

      I think Carlos Moya has done a great job since he joined Rafa’s team. It’s like everything has come together now and it’s all working. Rafa is winning efficiently and playing aggressively and with confidence. With the way he is playing, he may be able to extend his career.

      I think Rafa will gain even more confidence from this win and how he did it. I hope that his knees will hold at Wimbledon. I would love to see him do something there. But I just want to enjoy seeing him play and being healthy and happy.

      I am okay with all his clay slam titles. I think he has enough non clay titles to show that he is an all court player. If he wins another USO it AO, it will be icing on the cake.

      Rafahas earned his place among the greatest to ever play this sport!

      Reply

    • So dominant has Rafa appeared in the clay court swing that but for his having lost three in a row to Fed in the first quarter, I would have predicted Rafa to be the year end # 1!

      Reply

  5. Amazing Rafa! Everyone of his opponents (except PCB who played only one set plus 2 games) got at least a bagel or a breadstick, and that included two top ten players – Thiem and Stan the two best clay court players this tournament, after Rafa. This shows us just how dominant Rafa is/was; he’s simply awesome! His performance here is comparable to his of 2008 FO. I thought I saw the best Rafa in the FO2008 but now I’m wondering is this Rafa better than the FO2008 version?

    I’m just so happy to see Rafa winning his tenth FO title, we may never see anyone else winning ten titles at any slam again for a long long time.

    I hope Rafa with this momentum will do better on grass this year, at least goes deep in the grass events and earns enough points to help him regain the no.1 ranking and becomes YE no.1.

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    • If Rafa gets a good draw and his knees let him bend, I think he is a serious contender for the Championship. But I hope he will sweep the US Open series and also win WTF to gain a lot of points and be year end # 1.

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  6. And I hope he beats Fed when he meets him next. Rafa is a problem solver so I think he and his team are working on this. Apparently Fed was taking time away from Rafa. I think Rafa can beat Fed by attacking him alternately on both wings instead of hammering Fed’s backhand. As Fed is not as fast as he once was ( I hope!), this will disrupt his gameplan. In any case I think Rafa’s forehand has improved since they last met so the improved Fed backhand may not withstand the more lethal attack.

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  8. To creates a La Decima at RG is one thing…but to make a hatrick of La Decima in 2 other places…in a same year…it’s..just..WOW!!..WOW!!!!

    #BEL15VE IN HIS10RY!!…VAMOS RAFA!!

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  9. Unbelievable our Rafa! I felt on top of the world myself when I woke up this morning! It’s such a great feeling!

    Thank you, Rafa! As i said when the clay season started: Rafa will destroy them all! And he truly did! Nobody even came close to beat him…

    Interesting how some people here were constantly dragging about how Rafa wasn’t tested, how he would be undercooked whereas they were actually blind enough to see how superior Rafa’s current game is which is making his opponents look incapable and not motivated..

    I am not siure about winning Wimby, too many hard hitting serving machines out there, but Rafa definitely has a chance to win USO!

    Get some rest, La Decimator! And then go and get them all! ❤️

    Btw, 10 is my favorite number!

    Vamos Champ! We are so proud to be your fans!

    Reply

  10. nny, yes, we have criticized Uncle Toni in the past. But do you guys realize that he is now the most successful tennis coach in the history of the game, because Fed has employed different coaches and won some of his slams without a coach? UT sure deserved his little extra cup 🙂

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  12. Who can rob Rafa of time on clay? He doesn’t feel rushed as he can play from way behind the baseline and still hit incredible shots from there. His movement too is unparalleled on clay; it’s not only the sliding into his shots in whichever direction, but the balance he could get even when on the run to hit his shots. Watched the slo mo of him sliding to his BH corner and then hitting his BH with power and precision when he was still sliding, incredible power plus balance.

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  13. This is, without a shadow of a doubt, the best EVER moment in Nadal’s career for me. After everything he’s been through over the past two years with his drop in form and injuries, I was honestly beginning to doubt this day would come. What a fanstasic day.

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  14. Wawrinka gets it (last sentence says it all):

    “Physically or fitness-wise, I mean, I felt great. I’d recovered from Andy’s match – but it’s a mental thing. Everything is connected. If I hesitate in my mind, my legs will follow suit. That’s what happened today because when you play against Rafa, if you hesitate, it’s no good.”

    “Mentally, it was tough. If you hesitate for half a second, it’s too late. You will hesitate, you’ll be late and you will backpedal. If you’re not completely relaxed with the way you’re gonna play, you have no chance. That’s what happened today.

    “When you play against him, he’s an amazing fighter. There is always one ball coming back. There is always spin on the ball. There is always a different bounce. And it’s even tougher on clay. He creates a doubt that you cannot have if you want to beat him.”

    “When I stepped on the court, when I looked at the crowd, when I got my bearings, I was no longer nervous. I was eager to play the match.”

    “Well, I was trying to find a solution. I was trying to play better. I was trying to play the game I wanted to play. I was trying to do something different.”

    “But I wasn’t completely 100 per cent with my mind and what I wanted to do. That’s what happens when you play against Rafa.”

    Read more at http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/articles/2017-06-11/wawrinka_believes_he_faced_the_bestever_rafa.html#R5JxFcivMWoobTWm.99
    Read more at http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/articles/2017-06-11/wawrinka_believes_he_faced_the_bestever_rafa.html#zSi3zHCBAKyr6HfQ.99

    #RafaIsTheBest
    #Again
    #GOAT

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  15. The 6-2, 6-3, 6-1 scoreline yesterday was exactly the tsame as the last time they met at RG when Rafa beat Wawrinka in 2013 QF.

    #NothingNew

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  16. Here are just a few of Rafa’s Stand Alone records

    Most titles won at a single Grand Slam tournament – Roland Garros (10) Stands alone
    Youngest men’s player to achieve a Career Grand Slam (Aged 24) Stands alone
    Won the Olympic Singles Gold medal, Career Grand Slam, and Olympic Doubles Gold medal Stands alone
    Won Grand slams on clay, grass, and hard court in a single calendar year Stands alone

    There are many others in the list but have cherry picked the less esoteric to illustrate what a complete all round player he is.

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  17. Congrats Rafa on La Decima and No 15. Stupendous and incredible. It makes it even more sweeter that it was done so clinically and ruthlessly at 31 years of age without dropping a set. I for sure never imagined he would win a GS without dropping a set on the way. Maybe that is 1 more record- winning 3 slams without dropping a set.

    To All Rafans : Congrats to us. We have been through a lot in the past 3 years and the last 3 months have given us lot of joy. After every cloud is a silver lining is proven once again.

    My few thoughts:

    1) I believe destiny has a large role to play here. Some things are just destined to happen in a particular way. It was destined that No 10 at 3 venues had to happen in the same year. If no 8 and no 9 at MC, Basrcelona, RG happened at different years, why did No 10 happen all in the same year. It was just destined that way. I did not post at all (maybe 1 post) all through the 2 weeks but I was silently confident that Rafa would win RG as he was destined to and nothing would come in his way.

    Carlos Moya has been a wonderful addition and yes Rafa puts in all the hard work but he is the engine and the wind beneath Rafas wings. He has helped him retool the serve, Rafa is playing far more aggressive, going on the offense a lot more, dictating lot more than defending, hitting both DTL FH & BH shots at will. This is all the work that Moya has done on Rafa that is yielding results. He deserves enough credit and more.

    Happy to see Toni being called on stage and celebrated. I was surprised it happened in a slam. For all the talk of RG disliking Rafa, they proved it wrong with this gesture by calling his coach who would step down and hand him the trophy/replica etc. I would say they went against tradition here . Is it the first time this has happened ?

    I read that Eiffel tower yesterday was lit in colors of Spanish flag. Now is that not cool? Who said the French don’t like Rafa. If they disliked Rafa, why have their biggest landmark show respect to him?

    Federer was spot on in predicting right before everyone in Miami that Rafa will tear the clay season apart. That’s why I value what Federer says a lot, he is spot on with his analysis. His coach Severein post Mimai had also said that post RG , everyone may be talking about Rafa ending year as No 1 and he was right 🙂

    Rafa is close to 7000 points in the race, this maybe the highest he has amassed till RG ever right? I knew he was around 6500 many times but close to 7K ? Lucky may know all the numbers I ma sure 🙂

    I believe Rafa and Fed will end the year as 1 and 2 with Murray very close as 3. 2 & 3 may change between Murray & Fed based on Wimbledon . There is no way Murray is defending all those points 2nd half of the season.

    I am expecting Rafa to do serious damage in Wimby too this time. He just needs to be healthy that’s it. I wont be surprised at a title run too but again would not be surprised if he went out early too. I hope for a Rafa Fed final or Rafa Murray final at Wimby with Rafa winning ofcourse.

    I have no problem if Rafa wins more at RG but honestly 10 is lot. That record at a slam may never get broken unless Rafas son or daughter breaks it (just joking). I think we should all now relax in future RG and not stress ourselves. He has won enough at RG. I personally want him to win 2 non clay slams now (preferably at Wimby and AO).

    It was sweet of Federer to call out Rafa on twitter and hail his accomplishment. Good sporting spirit. Wonder why Novak and Andy haven’t yet (maybe they smsed him privately).

    Federer did the right thing by not playing the clay season. He knew he would win nothing and I think the decision was made once he saw Rafa take Novak apart at Madrid. He did not want to have a dent to his confidence after those 3 wins against Rafa by suffering a beatdown on clay. Its all mental finally 🙂

    I am not going to pencil Fed as favourite for Wimby. He is one of the favs but clear fav, come on.

    Reply

    • Sanju,

      This is one of your best posts of all time! Maybe it was destined to be after all!

      It’s a wonderful thing to be able to celebrate this historic win with other Rafa fans here! It’s been a long time coming! We have reason to smile and so does Rafa!

      I think Carlos Moya has done a great job DVD we are seeing the results. Rafa is comfortable with him and trusts him. It seems to be a perfect match!

      I am not hoping for Fed to win Wimby! If he does it , well good for him. But I am not about to give him the trophy now. He has to earn it. I hope that Rafa can do well at Wimby. We will see how his knees hold up in the first week.

      I think Rafa has done more than enough at RG. I don’t think anyone will come close to what he has done there. I would love to see him win maybe another USO or AO. If he wins any more titles at RG, that would be icing on the cake. But Rafa has earned his place as an all-time great in this sport!

      Reply

    • Sanju says AT 3:59 PM: “…calling his coach who would step down and hand him the trophy/replica etc. I would say they went against tradition here. Is it the first time this has happened ?”
      .
      It has never happened. Winners are normally given a small trophy to keep.

      The ‘Eiffel tower’ thing was fake news.
      🙂

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    • Sanju, nice post.

      I (We) love Rafa’s game; I love and appreciate the intricacies that’s in Rafa’s game; and Ive to thank both Stan and Fed, for saying what they said about Rafa, about how difficult it is playing against him, and I like what Fed said about Rafa, that Rafa is a special and unique player, and people just don’t know how difficult it is to play against him.

      Stan mentioned that Rafa gave him different looks each time when the ball came back at him, and how difficult it was countering Rafa’s shots.

      I appreciate their honest assessment of Rafa’s game and how tough it is to play against Rafa not to mention beating him, esp on clay.

      Many people see attacking players hitting winners all over the place and think that they are great, but they fail to see just how difficult it is to play a tactical game like Rafa’s, to counter all kinds of players, and to do it with success time and again.

      I’m just so impressed with Rafa, the game that he’s playing now and how as he grows older, he’s able to improvise, to adapt and to add in new dimensions into his game.

      He’s playing a brand of both offensive and defensive tennis, but this time, unlike in the past, or even in his heydays, he’s now playing more offensive than defensive tennis, and yet there’s no compromising where his defensive skills are concern, when and where he needs them. Rafa is playing an effective and efficient brand of tennis on clay, I mean, he only spent 12+ hours on the clay court to win seven BO5 matches to get his 10th FO title. Only two matches went over two hours, i.e. the SF and F, and both were just a few minutes past the two hour mark! He made his opponents in the SF and F looked helpless out there, and they’re the no.2 and no.3 best players on clay this season! Both are hard hitters playing on their best surface, yet they’re being overpowered, out maneuvered, simply being outplayed. Such is the greatness of Rafa on clay!

      I’m with Sanju, I believe that Rafa has the ability to win Wimbledon and hopes he really wins it; of course that may or may not happen. I also hope for him to win the AO, the USO, plus Wimbledon to prove once again that he is still capable of winning majors on other non clay surfaces.

      PS. Rafa’s 2013 ranked no.1 in terms of race points won right up to winning the FO (7000 points) but Rafa lost in R1 at Wimbledon back then.

      Reply

  18. A point that stood out,on another thread I saw few Rafa fans say they hope Fed won at Wimby. Why? I mean everyone is entitled to hope for anything, but if you a fan of 1 player, why want his rival to win Wimby. I want Rafa to win it and not Fed and the reason is not because I don’t like Fed, I want the distance between slam count to be as close as possible.

    Had Rafa won AO, the slam count would be 16 vs 17 instead of 18 vs 15. What a huge difference it makes 🙂

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    • Sanju says AT 4:05 PM: “…if you a fan of 1 player, why want his rival to win Wimby.”
      .
      I haven’t read these comments, but probably they were written by bandwagon fans.

      Reply

  19. I can never understand why some Rafa fans big up his opponents. But maybe they want to win some cheap popularity. I hope Rafa overtakes Fed but I really don’t mind if he doesn’t. I just want to watch Rafa playing so well. If he wins slams, that’s a bonus. But watching him hit his amazing shots and enjoying himself out there, that is what makes me happy. I have posted in this forum supporting Rafa through the lean period instead of bashing him because he couldn’t win. Along with nadline and augusta, I should get an award for being the most loyal fan here!
    #KudosToMe

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  20. Rafa breaks Sampras’ 14.

    Also joins Sampras who had been the only Open Era player with slam titles won in their teens, 20s and 30s!

    Vamos Rafa!

    #GOAT

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    • Hawks-
      I think you know my opinion on Goat talk- I’ve believed for a few years now that arguments can be made for either Fed or Rafa being the “GOAT”. For me personally, Rafa had already earned the GOAT title when he had 9 RG titles, depending on how you measure it, and him going from 9 to 10 RG titles just further shows what we already knew- that he is by far the most dominant force on a given surface ever. I am curious to know why you didn’t think Rafa was the GOAT two weeks ago, but now he is. And I think you know me well enough on here now to know that I’m not asking you in a confrontational way. 🙂 I don’t think you are wrong at all because I believe there is no right or wrong answer (as of now). I truly am just curious to know why YOU thought he wasn’t the greatest ever before RG, but now believe he is.

      #IComeInPeace
      #GoatTalk

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      • WARNING/DISCLAIMER!!!! Everyone but Kevin who asked, please do us both a big favour and skip my post here (many of you already do so kudos for that!
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        Hey Kev!

        First things first. I’m only right about saying that it is my OPINION that Rafa is GOAT. It is a FACT that my opinion is that Rafa is GOAT. It’s also a FACT that many (most?)believe that Federer is GOAT.

        Ok so why the change? Well, I’d have to explain my GOAT opinion history FWIW and it is just that. OPINION.

        Wimbledon 2000: Sampras became GOAT for breaking slam totals and dominating his competition head-to-head with one small exception – a near even record of 4-6 vs Krajicek.

        Wimbledon 2012: Fed became GOAT for going two slams up on Sampras which I thought slightly more than compensated for Fed’s soft competition before 2008 and his poor h2h vs Rafa and close h2h vs Murray and Nole. So he didn’t dominate the competition like Sampras did IMO.

        US Open 2013: Rafa gets to 13 slams, along with leading Masters 1000 titles, winning h2h against every player except a virtually equal 5-6 vs Davydenko, including dominating h2h vs federer, Olympic Gold medalist, and so many DC wins. But what capped it off for me was an astounding super human effort to have arguably his best year after a seven month injury lay off.

        Australian Open: Federer (as I correctly predicted) wins his 18th slam at 35 years of age after a six month injury layoff. I knew Fed could play himself into form much quicker than Rafa and with Nole and Muzz struggling and a custom-made fastest AO court ever was a recipe for his 18th. I’d said I’d consider him GOAT if my prediction was correct so credit where credit is due – he was GOAT in my eyes again.

        French Open 2017 – As I said, it takes Rafa longer to reach peak form after a layoff and that is what he did losing just one match on clay and winning La Decima playing what I thought was at his best level on clay as good as anything prior.

        But there is little between Rafa and Federer – it is that close in my eyes.

        And is just a game I like to play. Some don’t and I respect that. I don’t respect when others say there is no such thing as GOAT, when they are basically saying there is no such thing as opinion.

        People need to stop getting so offended by thinking that everyone with an opinion on GOAT is stating it as absolute fact.

        #RafaGOAT

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        • I read your post hawks! I already knew what you were gong to say. I think the GOAT debate is interesting and a player isn’t GOAT simply because he piles up slams. I leave that to the titlists who can only judge a player’s performance by how many titles he has won. It has to do with that sudden feeling you get when somebody crosses the border of human limits to rival the Gods. Fed’s AO and Rafa’s RG struck awe in anyone who watched it happening. GOAT is attached to endeavors, not to persons or titles. The persons are not always at their best. Sometimes one, sometimes the other, fills us with amazement. When a young lad from Mallorca beat the reigning deity at Miami in 2004, that was a GOAT moment. “Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
          When a new planet swims into his ken;…”

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          • Interesting criterion for calling someone GOAT, Mary. What you say reminds me a bit of the “Federer as religious experience” article from about 10 years ago. Not that I deny the feeling of awe (for both players: that Rafa running FH the other day against Stan was one of the most jaw-dropping shots I’ve ever seen), but even if there is no definitive answer in this debate, basing it on a feeling of awe is I think a bit too subjective.

            Boringly, that leaves number of big titles (GS, WTF, Masters), and by that criterion Federer gets the nod, narrowly, but clearly for me.

            However, I don’t think this question can be sensibly addressed without talking about the surface factor. It’s not just that clay is by far Nadal’s best surface and Federer’s worst, it’s also that so little tennis is played on Roger’s best surface (indoor hard) and comparatively little on his second (grass). Imagine how many slams Roger would have if there were a 5th slam played indoors, or how many Masters he’d have if there were 3 on grass and 3 indoors like is the case for clay at present.

            The most neutral surface for comparison, of course, is outdoor hard court. And there, I don’t really think there is much comparison. Roger leads in number of outdoor hard court slams, 10-3, and Masters, 18-7. Rafa has the H2H edge (8-5, 3-1 in slams), but that’s not nearly as important as number of big titles in my book.

          • Well that POV can work both ways.

            Imagine that instead of two of four slams being played on hard court, that they were played on clay.

            Imagine that instead of world tour finals being played on indoor hard every year, they were rotated or always played on clay.

            Imagine that one fan opinion might consider h2h against his peers especially in slams significantly more important than another fan. Nadal simply DOMINATES the field h2h in slams. Even removing clay slams where Rafa is 6-1 vs Nole, Rafa is still 3-3 vs Nole on grass and hc slams. Similarly Rafa is 5-0 vs Fed at RG, and 4-3 vs Fed on grass and hc slams.

            There is also olympic gold and Davis Cup which rafans like to consider but fedfans will dismiss because DC is team sport and fed wone doubles olympic gold which has its own contradiction because one might argue that doubles is a team sport.

            Also, rafans like to point out that you can’t go by number of titles without considering the level of the competition over that period of time (aka Weak Era).

            I quote your opening premise that “basing it on a feeling of awe is I think a bit too subjective.”

            Greatest Of All Time IS just that. Very subjective. It is, as Mary says, just a feeling. And that goes for everyone.

            So many fedfans want everybody to think it is not.

            Many (most?) feel that Federer is GOAT, but I, along with Andre Agassi, Andy Murray, Rod Laver and Pete Sampras, don’t think it’s as clear cut as fedfans.

            I close by saying, it gets tired and repetitive which is why I rarely get into debating it anymore other than just to state my own opinion.

            #ToEachTheirOwn
            #RafaGOAT

          • Perhaps the least controversial thing that can be said on this topic, which I am happy to leave it at, is that Nadal is GOAT on clay and Fed is GOAT off clay.

            Oddly, however, I rarely hear it put that way.

          • I don’t necessarily agree with that one either.

            For me at this point in time I don’t qualify Rafa as just being best on clay. He is just best overall in my opinion.

            I also believe that Sampras is the off clay GOAT.

          • But surely you don’t think Rafa is best off clay? Rafa being the best, period, is consistent with what I said, even if it’s too weak for you.

          • No that’s not consistent at all.

            But it’s good enough for me because it’s your opinion. Not mine.

          • No worries Joe. I do it all the time.

            Regardless, the difference for me anyways is splitting hairs between the greats.

          • Joe, if there is one indoor HC slam, then there’ll be one less outdoor HC slam to be fair. I’m not sure Fed would dominate the indoor HC slam any better than he dominated USO in his peak, for there is a certain Novak Djokovic who’s also dominant on indoor HCs – 5 WTF and 4 Paris Masters on indoor HCs.

            The more grass Masters and indoor HC masters debate – well, I’m also not sure Fed would dominate the grass Masters the way Rafa dominated the clay ones, for both Rafa and Djoko when in their respective peaks on grass, could beat Fed on grass!

            The indoor HC Masters, well there were two of them (Madrid and Paris) up to 2008, but Fed didn’t dominate on them; in fact Djoko had won more indoor HC masters than Fed – 4 Paris vs Fed’s 1 Paris and 1 Madrid indoors.

            So the point is moot, about grass Masters and indoor HC slam and masters – for it won’t affect Rafa that much anyway, but it may benefit Djoko more than it benefit Fed.

  21. The most remarkable fact is that Rafa was doing all the hitting and Stan was doing all the running. Just shows how much his game has evolved

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    • If Fed does well in the warm up events and I expect him to and if Rafa doesn’t do well, Fed maybe the #2 seed going into Wimbly and that would make the rigging team’s job a lot easier.

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      • Cool! Just found a live “Race to Wimbledon” current seeding!

        http://www.openerarankings.com/Home?Race=3

        Looks like Andy has a lock on No. 1 seed (nothing new) but Rafa and Nole are in a tight race for the 2-3 seed.

        WLB and Fed in a tight race for the 4-5 spot.

        So Fed hasn’t even secured a Top 4 seed yet (but no doubt he will with only his personal assistant in his way).

        Reply

        • On tennis-x they have arrived at a possible 7800 or so for Fed which would make him #2 unless Rafa and Nole do well at warm ups. Apparently the warm up points count twice in the formula. Does Nole even do grass warm ups?

          Reply

          • Nole hasn’t played a grass warm-up since 2010 so doubtful IMO but you never know with the extra week.

            Yeah, looks like Fed can get to about 7800 seeding points if he wins this week and in Halle. So Rafa would need to make the final in Queens to make sure he keeps the No. 2 seed regardless of what Federer does.

          • Yeah, Rafa definitely has the potential so yes he can but there is a large margin of uncertainty given the last five years.

            To say Rafa can’t do ANYTHING would be ridiculous just like Becker and Borg betting he’d never win another slam right after he’d just won his 14th…

            @KYevgeni 11:01 PM – 12 Jun 2014
            Latest gossip. Boris Becker and Bjorn Borg betted Mansour Bahrami,that Rafa Nadal will win NO more grand slam! Wager unknown.

          • I think Rafa will make the quarters in Queens. But you never know, with the extra week, Rafa may want to make it tough for the rigging team by trying to win Queens and be a lock for #2.

    • Stan was hitting near full power in the first few games and he hit a few balls by Rafa. But a lot came back, sometimes with interest. After that, Stan quit going for his shots, his power declined to around 70%, and he tried to rally with Rafa. That’s when he was lost. Nadal ended up with more winners (can’t remember the total), which is something I never would have expected but a sign that Stan wasn’t playing the game he wanted/needed to.

      As Wawa said afterwards, mentally he wasn’t 100%, and Rafa had a lot to do with that; that’s what playing top-form Nadal on clay will do to you.

      Reply

      • so now you can discard the Joe conjecture which was repeatedly proved wrong and exposed you to well merited derision!
        #RafaIsTheGOAT

        Reply

          • ooh, the creator of the Joe conjecture disclaims all knowledge of it? The Joe conjecture was that anyone who had beaten Rafa even once is better than Rafa and will beat him at RG.

          • Ok, now the test:

            Find one post where I said anything like that.

            When you fail, I’ll remind you of what I actually said.

          • That is the gist of your various posts where you held out Thiem and Stan as deadly for Rafa at RG simply because they had beaten him in the past.

          • Nope, not the gist. Here’s a few things I actually said, starting with the ones I got right:

            1. If Stan plays like he did in SF, Rafa will win easily. (Stan actually played worse, apart from the 5th set in the SF).

            2. If Stan tries to rally with Rafa (instead of going for winners) he is lost.

            3. Stan’s very best tennis (e.g. 2015 God mode) is good enough to beat Rafa. (I’m less confident after yesterday’s Rafa performance, but still not ready to abandon it. I only wish we could have seen it as a 5 set classic, even if it would have given several people on this site a heart attack.)

            4. Before the match I said it was slightly more likely than not that Stan will bring his very best (I put it at 55% -NOT 75%). I also said explicitly that this was based not so much on recent form (I was worried after the SF against Murray), but on his performance in past slam finals.

            Obviously, Stan didn’t bring his best. Was I wrong? Well, kind of, but it’s hardly like I guaranteed he would.

            Regarding Thiem, of whom I also said the match was on his racquet (in my sense of that phrase, which does *not* mean favoured), I made no prediction at all. The difference between Thiem and Stan bringing his best, in my opinion, was that Stan had proved that he can in a big slam match, whereas Thiem hadn’t.

          • Just a lot of words. You also propounded the Joe Main fallacy. This time I am not telling you what it is. But remember apart from producing biased stats, you and Main were pretty sure Stan could overpower Rafa.

          • Just a lot of words -that I actually said!

            I have no idea what the fallacy is that you’re talking about.

          • The fallacy ( Joe MainATP) which deserves to be immortalized by the proponents of its logic:
            If a player A reaches just 1 final in his career and wins it (100%), and another player B reaches 10 finals in his career and wins 9 (90%), then player A will beat Player B if they meet in a final.

          • I can’t speak for Nain ATP, but that’s not my fallacy. First, Stan had been in 3 slam finals, not one. And he’d beaten 2 of the big 3 (Nole, Rafa) in each one. To me, that says a lot.

            Even still, I never would think Stan could beat Rafa in a RG final if he didn’t possess the big hitting game that he does.

            Again, nothing in what I actually said to support your attribution.

          • I don’t think Stan wins any of those meetings had Nole or Rafa been at the top of their game.

            Rafa injured his back before the match and Nole was way too passive. Becker was beside himself. The best match Wawrinka won was against Nole at AO when there was nothing to tell between them until Nole simply choked a few points late in the fifth.

            I do believe however that he took Roger out at Rogers best level at the French.

      • Well my guess is even if Stan was at 100% mentally and physically, Rafa won’t allow him to play his game, and that’s what Rafa is best at doing. A Rafa playing with such aggression is very hard to beat. Judging from their H2H, I know Rafa has had much successes in containing Stan’s power.

        I have always maintained that an aggressive Rafa is > an aggressive Djoko or an aggressive Fed; because Rafa combines lethal offense with unbelievable defense which is a deadly formula against anyone. The thing is, Rafa needs to be confident in order to play this way. We’ve seen that in 2008, 2010 and 2013. In each of those years, Rafa could swept through the field once he gathered enough momentum, from clay right up to the US HCs (even though he’s more deadly on clay than on HCs). Rafa may or may not continue like this in 2017, who knows. We’ll wait and see…

        Reply

        • There’s every reason to think that Rafa will be a force on HC, since he was already 2nd to Roger earlier in the year when he clearly wasn’t playing as well as now. I hope and expect that we’ll see some great HC clashes between them later this year.

          I’m not expecting much from Rafa on grass, though, where he just seems to be a different player altogether the last few years. I don’t think his knees can take it, even if the rest of his game and fitness is back to near its best.

          Reply

          • After 2012, I haven’t been expecting anything from Rafa on grass but obviously both UT and Rafa think there is a chance this time. So waiting eagerly for Queens. I want to make it clear though that what Rafa did at RG is enough to keep me happy for a long time. Anything more is icing on the cake!

          • Mary (AT 2:30 AM),

            That’s what Rafa said on Sunday:
            “Since I have had problems with my knee, since 2012, playing on grass has been very complicated for me.
            “We’ll see how my knee behaves. Playing on grass is very special. You need to play at a lower level. The body posture is down. You have less stability.
            “But keep in mind I played five finals in Wimbledon. I like playing on grass. On grass, anything can happen. I’m motivated.”

            http://in.reuters.com/article/tennis-frenchopen-nadal-idINKBN19318M

        • Stan already admitted that Rafa didn’t allow him to play his game and dictate (aka god-mode) and that’s good enough for me.

          Tsame for Thiem. Nole let him. Rafa didn’t.

          #BetweenTheEars

          Reply

  22. Fed must have been practising like mad on grass so he will hit the ground running. But Rafa will have to make the transition slowly in order not to injure himself. Anyway, whatever will be, will be. In any case with his current form, Rafa may sweep Canada, Cincinnati and the US Open. Staying injury free is most important.

    Reply

  23. True but Rafa’s forehand, serve and backhand have improved since then. Especially his forehand. Fed also may have improved everything but while we know Rafa has improved, we do not know that Fed has improved. So based on current information available in the public domain: Advantage: Rafa.

    Reply

  24. Ive never won any popularity contests on these type of forums, so i dont even bother to try, ive been called a Novak hater by his fans, and a secret Novak fan by Rafa fans (go figure) you cant win, anyhow i digress i would dearly love Rafa to win more GS away from clay ,W,AO,USO, and i dont wish for Federer to win SW19, but if he does he does no problem, its Rafa i want to win hes my favorite ….

    Reply

    • Alison,

      I don’t think the goal is to win a popularity contest or go along to get along. People should be able to say what they think. Sometimes fans can get discouraged, too. It hurts to see one’s favorite player suffering and struggling. It hurt my heart to see Rafa going through another injury and not being healthy and happy.

      I just think it’s a shame that in this moment when Rafa fans are celebrating an extraordinary victory, that anyone feels the need to bring up criticism of Rafa by his fans in the past. We speak from our hearts and much of it was out of pain and frustration at seeing Rafa in that state.

      For myself, I don’t hold anything Andi st any of the long suffering Rafa fans here. I was critical and despairing that Rafa would continue suffering. But my love and support for him was always there.

      We should let go of the past and realize that words said in times of sadness and discouragement, were not meant to be disrespectful to Rafa.

      I think the Rafa fans here are all great and have been behind Rafa in their own way.
      ?

      Reply

        • I still haven’t been able to fully grasp the magnitude of Rafa’s achievement. Hope he does make it a dirty dozen even if it greatly skews his slam count toward clay. Rafa is great on all surfaces. While there maybe debates about GOAT in general nobody dares dispute that Rafa is the clay GOAT. He wants to keep winning at RG so I will be happy if he does win 15 as Kuerten forecasts. Anyway that will make him surpass Fed. And the Fed fawns will argue till they are blue in the face that clay is not a legitimate surface. Ha ha.
          #RafaIsTheGOAT

          Reply

          • That hashtag is a matter of opinion. Lots of evidence would totally contradict Rafa being the GOAT. Just saying.

          • Other evidence would support it though. Just saying it’s a matter of opinion and in my opinion a very pointless debate to be had or title to give to a player. I would of course say Fed is the goat in my opinion for being this good at 35 but others say Rafa is for other reasons like H2H. Usually it seems that one would dub their favorite player the goat. So most on this site would probably say Rafa is the goat.

          • True that. And just curious ritb. How come ur username has 3.0 at the end of it? Just wondering lol

          • Happy to explain @Benny G, the 3.0 reflects my opinion of the number of times Rafa has reincarnated his tennis career. Rafa 1.0 was when he launched his professional career as a teenager, Rafa 2.0 was when he re-calibrated his serve to conquer hard courts and win his first USOPEN, Rafa 3.0 is the current more technically complete (to paraphrase Uncle Toni), clearly more efficient incarnation.

      • Sorry nny, I apologize. After 3 long years we finally have occasion to celebrate. We do not know how long this period is going to last. It is not the time to bring up past hurts. It is a time to forget our differences and celebrate Rafa’s great achievement. The Rafa whom all of us love dearly, even if we show it in different ways.

        Reply

  25. I was one of the (dreadful) fans that thought Nadal would never come back to the top, he’s proven me wrong, again, sofor me if he doesn’t win another slam again, I don’t care, he’s always going to be the best. I don’t need him to win anything else to convince myself of this. To overcome so many physical and mental obstacles and win this beloved RG again, and the way he’s done it, it’s just icing in his career.
    But of course, I’d like him to continue fighting and giving himself the chances to win more trophies.

    Reply

  28. Big Congratulations to Rafa and all his fans… there are always the over-the-top types but I’m fine with them as long as they leave me alone 😀

    I like Rafa, missed him during his off year (2015), never thought or said he was done and I’m happy for him to be healthy again – just hope he has more competitive challengers on grass and hc. He was was so far above everyone at FO 2017 it was a one man show. And I know that makes most of you happy, so cheers!

    Reply

  29. Hi RC and many thanks, i appreciate that, no over the top worship from me, i didnt care for it a year ago from the TX loonies, so i dont have double standards, im happy but not going OTT its only tennis 🙂

    Reply

    • Me too! Opps I should have posted that link on – Daily picks probably. I was getting ready to make picks for Nottingham, Stuttgart and s-Hertogenbosch.

      It’s somewhat of a switch picking grass.

      Reply

    • I am looking forward to the grass season, too. It’s such a big change from clay to grass. I look forward to Queens and also Wimbledon.

      There will be other favorites now who will come to the forefront and show their stuff on grass.

      Reply

  31. Can you all imagine how amazing it will be if we happen to get 2 more Fedal slam finals this season?? I guess that even if we got just ONE more, it would be so great! Although I would truly love to see Fedal Wimbledon IV, I think that we all would love to finally get Fedal U.S. Open! I know that is pretty far down the road. I just PRAY that both of them go through the rest of the season un-injured. When the two of them are winning like this and staying healthy, everyone wins in my opinion…

    Reply

  32. Federer has made a statement in his presser that no way could he have beaten rafa at Roland garros and called Rafa gigantic. He also said it was a big goal for Rafa and he achieved it and that he had predicted it in Miami itself that rafa would destroy on clay. He also said it is not ideal for him at Wimby that Rafa comes with so much self confidence. He has also said that he felt bad for wawrinka in the final:-)

    Reply

    • To be honest, Sanju, I thought that statement by Fed was a bit disingenuous. It might have been true, but it’s easy for Roger to say when he doesn’t enter the tournament.

      Reply

  33. It’s nice to see you here guys bringing so much passion for tennis in writing. As usual I find myself reading comments and enjoy it. Some of them are really good. And I learn something new, since I started playing this sport only about a year ago when the opportunity arose.
    I’m curious who’s playing tennis at any level here? And how’s like to play on grass?

    Reply

    • With all due respect MA, I feel that was a veiled bait and switch piece written by a fedfan.

      (The use of Mr. repeatedly was bizarre and is prevalent in the writer’s other opinion pieces. Reminded me of something you’d see on bleacher report.)

      Sorry. Just my take.

      Reply

    • MA,

      I read the article and just think that it was a bit top heavy on stats overall. The comparison of stats on different surfaces got a bit tedious. It seemed kind of dry and devoid of the kind of real appreciation for Rafa’s unique gifts that I have read in many other articles and blogs, many of which you have posted.

      I can’t speak to any obvious bias because it’s do cluttered up with stats. I am not familiar with the person who wrote this. The use of the formal “Mister” also seemed kind of odd.

      The vast majority of articles you have posted have been great reads. There are always going to be a few that fall short.

      You do a great job with these links! This one was pretty forgettable and there was another one I remember that was filled with inaccuracies. But not a big deal!

      Keep ‘me coming!

      ?

      Reply

    • Mira, with all the comments on that piece, I had to have a read. There was nothing wrong with it, and I found it rather interesting. It was just an attempt to quantify the extent to which Nadal is better on clay vs. other surfaces as compared to Federer. It didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know: Rafa is much better on clay, as compared to other surfaces, than any other top player is on a particular surface as compared to all others. ELO is a standard system for that sort of thing; it’s widely used, e.g. in chess.

      The “Economist” is not a sports magazine, obviously. Using “Mr” may be part of their editorial style, as it is for the New York Times. It’s the kind of feature that would appeal to their readership. In any case, keep sending those articles!

      Reply

  35. MA, I have to agree somewhat with Hawkeye. I think the article you linked is full of so called backhanded compliments. And I’m not talking about Rafa’s improved backhand, lol! The writer seems to aim at making Rafa’s clay court prowess into something which is a negative contrast to Fed’s all court prowess.
    But nevermind. Thank you very much all the same for all the links you found for us in the aftermath of Rafa’s great win. I find them very interesting and informative. Some are very touching.

    Reply

    • Nny & littlefoot…Thank u for your opinion guys..i really really appreciate it very much…ermm…clearly i made a mistake on this one…sorry guys!..my english is not very good..and i proved it big time with this one!!hahaha…blushing!blushing!!woohoo!!…I promise i’ll do better next time k,guys?

      Reply

      • MA,

        I join with littlefoot in saying that you don’t owe us an apology. You do a great job with these links! I have learned a lot from them.

        It’s really not a big deal if there is one lemon in the bunch!

        Thanks for all that you do!
        ?

        Reply

  36. I wonder about this: when did the RG trophy ceremony organizers order the making of the life size replica trophy, the La Decima Trophy? For all we know they had to consider the possibility of La Decima after Rafa’s 9th victory in 2014. So, is the La Decima Trophy a fairly recent brain child because of Rafa’s 2017 renaissance, or has the replica been gathering dust for two years?? Especially in 2016 Rafa was in apparently great shape after all and a lot of experts predicted La Decima. The withdrawal after two routinely won matches was a shock.

    Reply

  37. MA, you didn’t make a mistake at all, when you linked the article! It was a very interesting read after all.

    Hawkeye, they may have indeed a back up trophy. But the plans for a La Decima celebration might’ve been in place for a couple of years. Maybe, they are concocting plans for “The Dirty Douzen” as we speak 😉

    Reply

    • Keep posting links Mira. Some will be bad but most would be good. So thanks for all the work that you do! The Mr Nadal post is indeed very weird but how did it get published on a respectable site?

      Reply

      • MA: Dont berate yourself.
        That article was an unusual departure from the normal Economist editorial style. They specialise in explaining complex matters in a concise and easily understood way knowing that English is not the first language for a large percentage of their readership.

        Mira: It is a puzzle how the article ever got past the sub-editors. It does not fulfill any of the criteria laid down in the Economist editorial policy and is not even interesting unless you are an avid student of tennis statistics. And don’t berate yourself for putting up that link nor for your grasp of the English language: you make yourself understood and communicate your love of tennis and for one particular player. That’s what matters at the end of the day!!!!!

        Reply

        • ed,

          You seem to have a lot more knowledge about The Economist than I did. I think the information you related about this magazine was quite enlightening. I am surprised that this piece made it past editors for publication. It doesn’t seem typical at all of what the magazine is about.

          Also, I agree that MA should not think it has anything to do with her understanding of the English language. She does express herself extremely well.

          I am glad that you said those kind words to her. She is a good soul with a big heart!

          Reply

          • Nny!ed!Mary!Hawks,Joe!littlefoot!….Oh God!..U GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!….Thank u thank u thank u for your kind words!…i’m deeply touched by your gesture guys!!

            Yeah,everytime i found an articles..i couldn’t wait to give it to u guys because i knew we share the same passion that named Rafael Nadal…and yayyy!! i’m really really glad u liked[well..almost!hehe] the articles that i gave it to u so far…THANK U SO MUCH GUYS!!

    • The French Open guys had obviously prepared for La decima in terms of banners, cups etc. Now, as Lttlefoot says, they are readying themselves for the dirty dozen and maybe also the baker’s dozen!

      Reply

    • Must have been the watchful eye of his doctor.

      Always worried when I hear any time even just one of his eyes is watching Rafa’s practice.

      Too bad he won’t have a Wimbledon tune up but more importantly hope Rafa’s ok for Wimby and longer term!

      Hope he has some good fishing.

      Reply

    • Sanju,

      That is a bit concerning to hear. I thought Rafa came out of RG in good shape. I wonder if this is about his knees.

      Rafa always felt it was important to play a warm up tournament before Wimbledon. I wonder if this means that he won’t play at Wimby.

      Reply

  42. He has said clay season was very long , he played maximum matches this year and the emotion of Roland garros was very high .

    He is already back at mallorca

    Reply

  43. All understandable.
    We fans may have to accept that the Wimby trophy is beyond Rafa’s reach now at his age – actually has been beyond his reach for a while now. Same as with Roger and RG.
    Rafa was blessed to win Wimby twice and also creating a master piece between himself and Roger along the way. Winning the best tennis match ever against the master on that turf is really something special. Although he finally won the FO, Roger never managed to do the same at RG.
    But while it would be nice if Rafa could do at least some damage at Wimby again, asking even a vastly improved Rafa for another win is unrealistic, even if there is an additional week now separating RG and Wimby.

    Reply

    • Interesting that Rafa did best at Wimby when there were only two weeks between it and RG; he’s done much worse since the extra week was added.

      Reply

      • It was only added in 2015 when he was mired in his slump.
        He didn’t play Wimby last year due to injury during French Open.

        So there’s one data point.

        He did no better in the three years prior.

        Reply

    • Littlefoot,

      This is why I said that I don’t have expectations for Wimby. It just may be that it’s not possible at this point in Rafa’s career. If he is feeling tired after having a pretty easy run at RG, then we know that one cannot turn back time. It’s not 2008. Rafa is nine years older. He has battled injuries throughout his career. Now he has to take care of himself and listen to his doctor.

      I just want Rafa to do what’s best for him. Also, he hasn’t played a full tennis year for the last few years. We are only at the halfway point now. Still a lot of tennis to be played.

      Fed has been managing his schedule so that he can continue playing as he approaches the age of 36. Rafa may have to do the same.

      Rafa could play Boodles. That would be something.

      Reply

      • Yeah Nny…I believe this decision was influenced largely by Moya…remember?he even persuade Rafa to spend less time on court,so rafa can rest more and not spent an unnecessary energy on court because he’s older now…so,he needs a different approach…If Rafa 100% still under U.Toni,i’m pretty sure he’ll play Aegon..he don’t like to make a changes to his routine…but..

        Thank u Moya for this decision..i think,they’re aiming a bigger price in NA HC swing knowing Rafa got more high chances there…all in all,this decision is certainly for longevity of Rafa’s career..besides Rafa already said,he will do anything to prolong his career…and this is one of them…so,Vamos Rafa!!

        Reply

        • Yeah, while Uncle Toni (rightfully) gets a lot of attention now as probably the most successful tennis coach ever, I feel that Rafa’s most recent success has a lot to do with Moya’s positive influence. After Rafa’s RG win the reknown sports journalist and self proclaimed rafafan Steve Flink wrote an interesting piece for the Tennischannel where he points out the recent changes in Rafa’s game and how they make him an even more complete player. He agrees with Stan Wawrinka who also claims that Rafa is better and more dangerous than ever.
          I hesitate to agree because of Rafa’s undeniable physical age related limitations. But he’s clearly better equipped now to manage the time he spends oncourt. I wasn’t sure what to expect from Moya beyond being a good friend for Rafa and therefore providing emotional stability. But he really managed to implement some very noticeable changes which turned Rafa into a more dangerous player.
          Interestingly there has been a trend in recent years of formerly great players and slam winners turning into equally successful coaches, and it has enriched tennis immensely. It has been great to see legends like Ivan Lendl, Boris Becker, Goran Ivanisevic (who won the US Open as Cilic’s coach) and now Carlos Moya in the role of slam winners again. It will be interesting to see what Agassi can do in connection with Djokovic. He has his work cut out for him. I wonder if he’s willing to put in the miles and miles of travelling and hard works in the stands. Becker at least voiced some doubts. But then again the partnership just began.

          Reply

  44. Even if Rafa never wins another slam, I will not be disappointed. I have faith in him and know he will always give his best. I have waited three years for La Decima and the last two days, the first thought when I wake up, is that Rafa has done it. I thank Rafa for giving me so much joy and I will not be judgmental about him. If he can’t win Wimbly, fine, he can’t. If he can win Wimbly, he will. I think he will decide after seeing the draw. If the first two rounds are tough, he won’t risk his knees. If they are not tough, he will take the risk. So the rigging team has an additional headache. Most probably Fed will be seeded #2 as Rafa is not playing warm ups and there is no indication that Nole will. Probably Nole too will decide about playing Wimbly after he sees the draw! Ha ha, poor rigging team! Too many unknowns!!!.

    Reply

  45. I’ve been smiling the last couple days thinking of all you big-time Rafa fans. 🙂 It must feel so amazing to know your man finally got what he so desperately coveted. Like you said above, Mary- that’s what I’ve been imagining you all doing! Waking up in the morning and feeling that bliss of know he won. 🙂 I felt the exact same way for the Federer fans who had waited even longer than Rafa fans for their guy to win. I’ve been there- when my Boston Red Sox won their first World Series in 86 years, the following few weeks were some of the happiest days of my life haha! For me with tennis, Agassi was to me what Rafa was to you all. Although he didn’t win nearly as much as the GOATS, I had some wonderful moments watching him. One of the best for me, personally, was at AO 2000 when he beat Sampras in a 5 set epic in the semis and then defending champ Kafelnikov in the final. It was obviously a treat for me the few times he managed to beat Sampras in a slam, and I always thought he played his best tennis that tournament. In tennis terms, that’s probably the closest I’ve been to feeling what you must be feeling… Anyway, I really am happy for you all, and I really am looking forward to the rest of the season. Even if all four of them aren’t playing at their best at the same time, I think we should all relish whatever time we have left for the big 4 to still be playing at the same time because it may not be for too much longer.

    Reply

      • Hahaaa! My man, Hawks! A Yankees fan, too! Imagine, if I was a strictly Federer fan, you and I would be a match made in heaven… Are you a Knicks fan, too?

        Reply

      • Hawkeye, isn’t fandom a funny thing? I used to be a huge Sampras fan. And he is so different from Rafa! Initially I even became a rafafan because I resented what Fed was doing to Sampras’ legacy, lol! These days I still like Sampras the player but not so much Sampras the man. But while many called him boring, he has actually given us some of the most exciting tennis matches ever. He was willing to go beyond the physical possible. He literally was mind over matter in some matches. It’s a shame that he never managed to win the FO because he had actually some great wins on clay against the likes of Kafelnikov, Courier and Sergi Brugera who are all FO winners. For example he managed to beat Kafelnikov on a wet and extremely slow clay court in Moskow (the Russians had literally drenched the clay in order to improve their chances) during a Davis Cup final which he won more or less single handedly because he played and won singles and doubles. But in the end Sampras always ran out of luck and gas in Paris.

        Reply

        • Sampras was able to walk into the sunset on a high note, when he retired after winning the US Open one last time in 2002 after having been in a prolongued and often humiliating slump very much like Fed and Rafa. Little did he know that his record of winning 14 slam trophies, which seemed to be for the ages, wouldn’t last all that long and would be shattered not only by one but by two players. And with 12 slams the Djoker isn’t far behind either, lol! The mind boggling thing is that the Djoker and Rafa kept winning slams while they had to compete against each other and the player who is considered to be the Goat. With less competition from their rivals Roger, Rafa and Novak would’ve amassed even more slam trophies.

          Reply

    • Agree kev!!…I am the fan of the Big 4 as well…feeling soooo blessed with what they’re already gave to us…when they’re all gone…it’s not going to feel the same anymore…so,let’s cherish them while we’re still can…it’s not for long now..4,5 years??

      Reply

    • Kevin, my feet aren’t touching the ground. I find myself smiling even at strangers. Some look at me doubtfully, not sure whether I am an escaped loony, others smile back and say “Hi”.
      Thanks for sharing our joy. It is obvious you know exactly how we are feeling.
      Agassi was better at AO than Sampras, possibly because the Sampras serve was not as deadly on slower surfaces. And Agassi’s ROS was therefore more effective.

      Reply

      • I think you hit the nail on the head, Mary. I believe Agassi was able to get Sampras at AO for the exact reasons you stated. Also, I think that another reason for the 2000 win was Agassi’s superior conditioning and fitness. Sampras was always a better athlete than Agassi, but Agassi really stepped up his conditioning in his late career heyday. The 2000 win was especially great for Agassi fans because, as I’m sure Hawks would love to attest to, Sampras had dominated Agassi in 1999, and some said that Agassi may not have won the US Open in 1999 had Sampras not been out with injury. So I think Agassi was determined to prove that he was rightfully the world #1 at the time, and I believe that he did just that by beating Sampras on the way to the title and thus holding 3 out of 4 majors at that time. Of course, he fell off the map for a while pretty quickly after that haha. Sampras almost always had Agassi number, as well as everyone else’s, at non-RG slams, but that just made it that much more impressive when Agassi was able to overcome him. 🙂

        Reply

        • I did not like Agassi the player but after reading his story and what he is doing for education for kids, I really like and admire Agassi the man. I also think he made a wise choice in marrying Steffi Graf, the perfect disciplined and well organized person to keep him focused on his goals.

          Reply

          • Yes, I agree. Agassi made great choices later in life. I was never his fan while he was active. But these days I really like him. I’m really looking forward to find out what he can do for the Djoker. Everybody was skeptical when Novak hired Becker. And look, what a success that has been! And by no means just for the Djoker. IMO Becker’s reputation was in the doldrums because of his continuous tabloid presence before he started working for Novak. But now Becker is a respected expert again. And like Lendl through Murray, Becker the coach was able to add the one missing trophy to his slam count – the FO trophy.

      • Mary!…No wonder you’ve been nice to me!!…and i thought you’re falling to my charm at last!!..It turned out because of Rafa!!…Hahahaha…Oh,in that case i hope Rafa will keep on winning…it’s heaven to have ‘this’ Mary!!…Vamos Mary and Rafa!!Woohoo!!

        Reply

  46. Wise decision by Rafa not to stress his body (knees in particular) any further, so soon after the FO. A three weeks break will do some good for his recovery, he can take his time to train on grass and then plays an exho for some warm ups before Wimbledon.

    My feeling is that he will play at Wimbledon, regardless of the draw. And, I do feel if he’s fresh and ready, plays his aggressive game with confidence, he’ll go deep at Wimbledon.

    When Rafa is healthy with no knee ailment, he can play well on grass. His movement is great on grass, he tends to play closer to baseline on grass and is more offensive on grass. I do feel this time he comes with more weapons to win on grass – an aggressive mindset, a better serve, better FH plus BH both CC and DTL, improved volleying and net approaches, willingness to move forward inside the court and shortening points.

    Reply

  47. Rafa should practice the short one two punch tennis, some S&V and also slices on grass.

    Talking about one two punch tennis, I was impressed with Thiem during his match against Djoko at RG, he used one two punch tennis, using his BH DTL, to do the job. I thought it’s usual to use the FHDTL playing the one two punch, but using the BH was rarer. I do hope Rafa could also do that with his BHDTL, that way he’ll have an additional weapon to help him on grass.

    Reply

    • Rafa can always practice on grass in his home town, they have grass courts there now, unlike in the past. He can do an exho at Boodles where Djoko used to do since 2011 or 2012. He’s guaranteed two or three matches there.

      If Rafa’s knees are ok, I think that should be enough, because in 2010 when Rafa had a clean sweep of the European clay events including the FO, he went to Queens and was eliminated in the QF, but, he won Wimbledon that year. He also reached QF at Queens in 2011 and reached final of Wimbledon after that.

      What Rafa needs now is a good rest, and then starts practicing on grass and plays an exhibition if possible. He was used to playing about the same number of matches (bet 45 to 50) during the first half of season right up to end of FO; it’s only in the last two years when he’s not doing well that he played fewer.

      Now that he’s 31, his mind and body needs more rest to recover, esp after the intensity that he’s playing with this clay season. I’m sure if he’s fit and healthy, he won’t want to miss Wimbledon again, whether he will win the title there or not.

      Reply

      • Luckystar (AT 10:01 AM),

        Rafa can practice on grass courts in his home island, not his home town.:)
        There were no grass courts in Mallorca before last year. The Santa Ponsa Tennis Club opened their new grass courts in spring 2016 and hosted Spain’s first grass tournament, the WTA Mallorca Open, in June.
        Santa Ponsa is located 80 km/50 miles away from Manacor, Rafa’s hometown. Rafa was supposed to practice on Santa Ponsa’s new grass courts last year, but due to his wrist injury he only visited the venue. Uncle Toni was and still is the tournament director of the WTA Mallorca Open. I think, Rafa will be practicing in Santa Ponsa this year.

        https://www.seemallorca.com/news/tennis-on-turf-in-mallorca–696524

        Reply

  50. My thoughts:

    1. It is a good decision to take some time off. It is a team decision but I reckon the Carlos Moya factor is big here. Moya has been pushing to make Rafa’s practice sessions shorter and he would really have insisted Rafa takes some time off.

    2. I am 100% sure Rafa will play Wimbledon because his knees are healthy. He is feeling so confident and his aggressive game is at an ALL TIME HIGH in my view.

    3.Perhaps having grass courts in Mallorca also made it easier to make this decision. They have their own grass courts now and don’t need to travel elsewhere to get grass courts. They can train in peace and secrecy 😉 for as long as they want to.

    4. I would have preferred it he’d played one grass tournament BUT, health comes first. I think he has no injuries but he just wants to rest. Again, coach Moya has a role in this.

    5.I certainly have hopes for Wimbledon. I hope he will play exhibitions like the Boodles to prepare for grass and give his knees are fine, his aggressive game is working better than EVER, he sure has a good shot.

    6. The challenge again would be to navigate through the first week and somehow make it to the qtr finals. Rafa’s VASTLY improved second serve gives me more hope and his first serve is also pretty solid at the moment. Even wawrinka talked of it as a ‘weapon’ and said not often you talk about Rafa’s serve but it is very effective.

    All in all, a very very warm congrats to team Rafa and his fans. This is one of the sweetest victories of his career and having Uncle Toni give him the trophy was PRECIOUS.

    If someone’s got a video of the whole ceremony, do share 🙂

    Reply

    • Uncle Toni presented Rafa with a full-size copy of the FO trophy, with all 10 of Rafa’s titles engraved. The original FO trophy was handed to Rafa by two-time Roland Garros champion Roy Emerson.
      🙂

      Reply

      • ah okay. Great! I was buried in books so was just following some stuff you guys were sharing and watched some pics.

        The French gave so much respect to both Rafa and Toni. Paris loves Rafa and he is the greatest champion that has ever stepped foot there!!

        Reply

  51. I was never in doubt Rafa would dominate on clay this season. After Miami I was said he could even go undefeated and if he stays healthy, he will romp through the Roland Garros test.

    I could also see his second serve improvements and knew soon it will be a weapon. He was cleverly serving second serve aces to wawrinka and is not afraid of changing direction on it. His kick has improved and the avg pace is a good 6-7 miles quicker on average and when needed he can clock 100 mph plus. He is the best in defending second serves but now that his actual serve is good as well, he is watertight in that area. Winning 74% second serve points the entire tournament is INSANE. Even the SAMPRAS second serve was winning usually in the 50’s range on GRASS.

    Rafa’s backhand is lethal and he is going to flatten it out more and change direction more on grass. Also, his volleying is better than ever and so is his overall presence at the net!

    Reply

    • Yes, VR, we shared the same view about Rafa’s game during Miami and after. I said it back then, that Rafa after reaching Miami final, would do even better on clay. Sure he did! And, we are all so glad that he won La Decima at three different tournaments within the same year, the biggest of course being the French Open.

      We saw the improvements in Rafa’s game back then and continued to see more during the clay season. Other than Rafa’s second serve and his FH, his BH was also very impressive, I mean it’s able to withstand both Thiem’s and Stan’s huge FH, and he even had a few good DTL shots from that wing too! The most delightful thing about this Rafa, is the confidence and willingness of him to move inside the court as and when possible, to play shorter points more offensive tennis.

      Im also confident that if Rafa’s knees hold up well, he will go deep at Wimbledon. The more offensive game that he’s playing now will help him to do well there, I feel.

      Reply

      • yup, we shared optimism, LS, and it has been a pleasure discussing his matches with you.

        NNY was also optimistic and I want to say congrats to her as well.

        On a lighter note, Djoko ain’t back 😛 lol

        Reply

  52. Just some numbers to put things into perspective now that we have seen Rafa play both on hard and clay:

    Second serve points won (by%) ranking on HARD courts 2017:

    1.Rafael Nadal – 60%
    2.John Isner- 59%
    3.Roger Federer- 58%

    Second serve points won (by%) ranking on CLAY courts 2017:

    1. Rafael Nadal- 64%
    2. Leonardo Mayer- 60%
    3.Wawrinka- 59%

    *Djokovic won 50% but he has been playing poorly overall.

    Reply

    • It is insane! No evidence to suggest he will will less than 60% on grass because his career% on grass is better than other surfaces and of course grass helps your serves even more.

      I also heard MOya saying after Rafa’s 10th title that sure, Rafa can play even better!!

      For further perspective, here is a bonus stat:

      Rafa won ONLY 54% of second serve points on clay in 2016 and we know he was playing QUITE well last year as well!!

      from 54% to 64%!!!!

      Reply

      • I used to feel like pulling my hair seeing how slow the improvements were in rafa’s second serve but I am finally happy now. Uncle TOni and Rafa had this on their agenda for a long time. After 2013, Toni was asked if Rafa has peaked and he said there are things you can always improve and we are trying to improve the second serve.

        I think Moya coming new into the team and stressing over the 2nd serve so much, giving new ideas and perhaps helping with technique really pushed Rafa and he improved.

        Next up on the priority list:

        -BACKHAND SLICE
        -first serve
        -Backhand DTL
        -Forehand ROS from close to the baseline for quicker surfaces like grass

        Reply

      • VM, true, Rafa had remarkable results on grass in the past, but his last good run at Wimby has been 6 years ago in 2011! After that it was a string of disappointments. Therefore doubts are entirely justified.
        But as you and Lucky have pointed out: the situation this year might be better than in previous seasons. All we can do is wait and see. Maybe, we will be pleasantly surprised, who knows…

        Reply

  53. Thanks for everybody’s thoughts. I didn’t kbnow that there are grass courts available on Mallorca now. That makes indeed things a lot easier for Rafa. He can enjoy one of his greatest victories while relaxing at home, and he can make the transition to grass gradually on his own terms. The extra week between RG and Wimby might help as well.
    While I have no exaggerated expectations for Wimby, I agree with Laucky and VR: the overall situation for Rafa seems to be a lot better than in previous years. Rafa seems to be healthy and in good physical condition and his overall game has become much more agressive. His serve has become a valuable asset. Therefore it would be a shame if Rafa wouldn’t at least try to do some damage at Wimby. Who knows if the situation will ever be so favorable for him again in the coming years? Rafa needs to enjoy these tournaments while he still can. And having just achieved one of his greatest successes after his obituaries had already been written quite a while ago, he can be relatively relaxed at Wimby. He should be on Cloud Nine – or rather Cloud Ten – right now and has no points to defend. He’s also vastly experienced by now and can therefore probably manage without a warm-up tournament. While I don’t expect him to win, he just might surprise us all with a good showing, especially since he managed to regain a certain champion’s aura of invincibility this year, and not just on clay. The great unknown is the true state of his health of course. He appeared to be totally ok in Paris, but there can always be one or the other niggling thing…

    Reply

    • good post and I agree he has got his aura back and you could see how players were ‘scared’ to play him on PC. Wawrinka admitted he was hesitant to play him!!

      Reply

    • Thanks MA, I especially enjoyed the article about Lars Burgsmüller, the first player ever to be beaten by Rafa at RG. Nobody can take that away from him, lol!
      As to Mats Wilander: I’m mostly annoyed by his predictions. If he would be a betting advisor he would’ve been fired long ago 😉
      I still remember that during the US Open 2010 he was absolutely convinced that Rafa would never ever win the US Open and kept telling so everybody who would listen. I had the impression that even after Rafa’s final match point he wasn’t entirely convinced that Rafa had truly done it.

      Reply

      • You’re welcome littlefoot!…Glad u liked it!…Bout mats..yeah!…i respect him as one of the greats but…compared to him,i like Brad Gilbert even more…not to mention that he backed Rafa’s 10th is better than Fed’s 18th!haha…[sorry joe,kevin,Benny G and Eugene..just teasing u guys!]…

        Reply

  56. When it comes to Mats the thing is he talks alot but says nothing, a year ago he was saying Novak was the KOC, all depends on which way the wind blows, i certainly like his summary, but i dont read much into it ….

    Reply

    • Mats is great at talking about teh technical things in a player’s game and analysing the particulars but when it comes to predictions, yeah, it is about which way the wind blows.

      Where are all the experts who had said Rafa will never win a slam again!!

      Reply

      • VR…I remembered Andy Roddick among them who blatantly said in 2015 that Rafa would never win a slam again..oh!how wrong they were!

        Reply

  58. Rafa has played well throughtout this year both on hard & clay courts his been amazing, my younger brother & sister loves him.

    Am not a big fan but i respect his recovery and improvement.

    Plz don’t be bias, who are your top 2 picks in ATP to win wimbledon?

    Reply

    • Whom are you asking, Stanley? You will receive a lot of differing opinions. Even as a rafafan who hopes he will do well, he’s not on my top list. If we go by previous performances and his early form during this season, Roger is certainly a top contender but I don’t pencil him in for the win just yet. Andy Murray shouldn’t be forgotten. He has shown grue grit in Paris on his least favorite surface. He has really became a seasoned fighter and has learned to deal with the British expectations. If he’s fit and healthy I expect him to do well.
      After those two veteran players it’s hard to say. The Djoker’s state of mind and body is everybody’s guess right now. I would love if finally one of the young guns like Kyrgios and Zwerev has a true break-through. They most certainly have the potential to spoil the party of a big gun.

      Reply

      • Anyway,it’s very hard to predict without having the draw. IMO on grass a lot depends on the draw because the big hitters and ace machines can always take out a top player with a bit of luck on a charmed day.

        Reply

        • Littlefoot,

          I agree with you about the draw. It is about those big hitters and ace machines when it’s grass.

          I am going to wait for the draw to come out before I give my thoughts on who I think will have the best chance. We n IW who the obvious favorites are with Fed and Andy. I think Novak is a big question mark.

          Reply

      • Hawkeye, a successful impeachment of a certain person would indeed be my favorite event of the year. Although, while fully justified, I don’t expect it will happen just yet because there is no sufficient majority right now. The GOP still hasn’t internalized that they should get rid of Trump in order to cut their losses in future elections.
        What I really hate: the certain person’s favorite tennis player is Rafa 🙁

        Reply

  59. I know most of you don’t have much expectations of Rafa at wimby but I clearly do. Not sure why but I feel he will do well. He is high on confidence now and that translates into the mind and overpowers the knees :-). It is all mental 🙂

    Reply

    • Sanju, nothing wrong with high expectations. All that can happen is, that you will be disappointed, lol!
      While you are right and Rafa should be just fine in the mental department right now, unfortunately his knees and other body parts have been stubbornly resistant towards the mind-over-matter approach.
      And as I said above: a lot depends on the draw…

      Reply

      • Again I agree with littlefoot. Mind over matter can only go so far. Rafa’s knees have had to take a lot over the years. As he practices in Mallorca he should have an idea of where he’s at.

        I am still not going to put any expectations on Rafa at this time for Wimby. The draw is not out yet. We just have to wait and see.

        I hope for the best for Rafa, as always. But even Uncle Toni cautioned about Rafa’s knees. Rafa will give it his best.

        Reply

        • I just wanted to add that those who wrote off Rafa and said he would never run a slam again, should be ashamed. You never write off a great champion. It’s made Rafa’s victory that much sweeter.

          Reply

      • Agree littlefoot!…very agree!..IMO,it’s not about mind..it’s about rafa’s knees…a few months back,i stumbled into an article in which Rafa said,he rarely drive a car because he can’t bend his knees for long…if he ride a car,he usually sit whether at the back or at the passenger’s seat…and IF he chose to drive a car,he said after a while he has to stop,get out of the car and stretched his leg…that’s how bad his knees are…so,when he said he is very cautious about his knees when playing on grass,then i respect his words very much…

        Also agree with Nny…we have to wait and see…even tho’ many pundits put him as a co fav along with Rog and Andy…I missed seeing rafa play on grass very very much but i love his health more…

        Reply

        • MA, I also miss seeing Rafa playing his sublime grass court tennis. When I rewatch “The Best Tennis Match Of All Times” once in a while I’m always in awe at the quality of tennis. But it also makes me feel a little sad because it was such a long time ago.

          Reply

          • Same here littlefoot!…How time flies past us in a blink of an eye..it feels like just yesterday we watch Rafa holding his 1st trophy at Wimbledon…God!How sweet that moment!…Hope we fans be able to see that magic moment one last time before he retires…Where’s the shooting stars when we needed one lol!!

          • Very true, MA. While I enjoy especially Rafa’s renaissance, I also miss a young and charismatic shooting star ready to take on the whole tennis world – like Borg, McEnroe, Becker, Sampras and to a certain degree Guga Kürten. It’s incredible, but Rafa was the last teenager to win a slam – and look, he’s still going strong. Incredible. But as great as the era of the Big Four has been, I think their prowess and sheer consistency has stifled the young talents to a certain degree. Maybe the young guns just don’t have the belief that they can have sustained success during the reign of the Big Four. They win a great match here and there – like Thiem – only to get cut down by another member of the Big Four in the next round. That must be very frustrating and might stifle the long term development of a champion’s mind.

          • Once again agree littlefoot!…I think after the Big 4 retires..the tour still full of a very talented young guns but with no clear favourites going into one tournament…let alone be a dominant force like rafa,roger or novak did at their time…like u said,players like Thiem,sascha will win here and there but the lack of authority and aura will make the tour with no clear leader among them…and i predict,there’s going to multiple winner’s in slams that will divided between 4,5 or 6 player’s…it’s interesting to follow their development later…

    • but his knees were still wonky in 2013! Plus, his second serve is much better right now.

      I understand the concern and the doubts and I myself don’t feel overly confident either but I am hopeful based on what I have seen.

      Reply

  61. The second serve factor is big.All those big hitters, they used to serve big and hold their service games and always tried to keep going for big returns on Rafa’s second serves.

    Rafa can do serious damage at wimby.

    Reply

    • Agreed VR. As long as Rafa could win points on his own serves, be it first or second, to hold his service games, he’ll have his chances against the big hitting guys.

      He has better ROS than most players, and his serves these days aren’t easy to return and so the big serving guys may not break his serves either. It comes down to how clutch Rafa is in important moments, esp when facing BPs and how well he could read and return his opponents’ big serves, imo.

      Reply

  62. Rafaisthebest;
    Rafawasthebest;
    Rafawillbethebest;
    Rafawillalwaysbethebest.

    As for the FFT bringing Uncle Toni to hand over the La Decima trophy to Rafa, they do say class recognizes class……………magnifique, exceptionnelle, bravissimo! Mwaaaaa……..

    For the curious, yes, this is Rafaisthebest, reincarnated as RITB 3.0 in honor of the incomparable, untouchable Rafa Nadal Parera, soon to change to RITB 4.0 after Rafa wins AO2018 to complete the Rafa Slam.

    Reply

        • RITB, it is great to have you back. I am waiting for you to light up this forum with your ready wit. hawkeye does a good job too and has attracted quite a fan following!

          Reply

          • Respectfully Mary, I’m not looking for fans, just mutual respect – TG is just a place to express my tennis views.

            Always trying to be respectful overall contrary to appearances – unfortunately I usually “fail better, fail harder.”

            Thanks.

          • Thank you @Mary! Will try to keep my “ready wit” on the right side of civility. Unfortunately, sometimes my “ready wit” flies too close to gallows humor, kkkk! No harm intended. As Rafa would say, I will try my best, no?

      • @Hawkeye miss me? Liar, liar pants on fire…………….@Conspirator would miss me, not @Hawkeye…

        #RITB
        #RafaistheGOAT

        Reply

        • Very fair RITB. I did deeply apologize to you and said I’d understand if you didn’t accept.

          That apology stands today. We are all human.

          But you’ve been deeply missed by all.

          Reply

      • RITB:
        A lot of us were concerned when you suddenly ceased posting without any warning. Glad you’ve re-surfaced. Missed you. Why don’t you update us (over on the Non Tennis thread) on what you’ve been up to since you went AWOL!

        Reply

        • Missed you too, @ed251137, especially when Le Tour was on! Now there’s a thought, up date you on what I have been up to during my “absence”? Hahaha! Let me give this further thought…………

          Reply

  64. I know some of you want to wait 4 the draw at wimbledon but let’s just have fun, anyone can contribute who are your two favourite player’s in ATP to win the title(wimbledon)?

    And as for HAWKTARD plz stick to tennis not politics, you mentioned impeachment, have you heard of the saying innocent until proven guilty.
    And in this case there is an overwhelming evidence of innocence, please don’t let hate blind your judgement.

    God bless president Donald j. Trump.
    #MAGA

    Reply

        • Ratcliff, hadn’t noticed that poster before, but I stumbled into the non-tennis section – and – oh well…

          Reply

          • Don’t be a stranger to the non-tennis forum, littlefoot! There’s some good stuff there too once in awhile.

            And please visit the WTA thread …it’s kinda hard to find but…several of us try to keep it updated.

    • Just curious, Stanley. What do you take to be the “overwhelming evidence” of Trump’s innocence?

      Trump won’t be impeached before mid-term elections unless Republican leadership judges his political liabilities to outweigh the benefits. Surest way for that to happen is for Trump to fire Mueller, who is now investigating Donald personally for obstruction of justice.

      Every single Trump adviser is telling him, in no uncertain terms: Don’t fire Mueller.

      I put the odds of Trump firing him at about 75%… and rising daily.

      Reply

      • There is a concept in law called consciousness of guilt. Like when someone flees after a crime has been committed. Or tries to hide evidence.

        The point is the Trump has exhibited thus quality over and over again. His absolute refusal to reveal his tax returns, even to this day. The firing of FBI Director James Comey and has subsequent admission in a TV interview that it was because of the Russia investigation. He also fired another prosecutor. His meeting with the two Russian officials in the White House and excluding the American media and only allowing the Russian media. His continued contact with Michael Flynn even after he was fired for lying to the Vice President and President and taking monies from a foreign government and not disclosing it, which was illegal.

        There are many other instances that indicate a man who knows he’s guilty as sin and will do whatever it takes to hide the truth.

        Trump has the presumption of innocence, as does any American citizen. However, the American people are free to reach their own conclusions based on Trump’s conduct. We are not in a court of law yet.

        I think they will get him when all is said and done. The truth has a way of coming out in the end.

        Reply

    • MA, the fight for the No 1 ranking will be really interesting this year. I don’t think that Murray will be able to hold onto the top spot until the end of the season. He has lost too many points already and he has an insane amount of points to defend from now on. For starters he needs to defend his Wimby title. Not impossible, though IMO. Many are pencilling in Roger for the title already, but Andy has become a real fighter, and by now he knows how to win Wimby. I see Rafa’s chances for the pole position more in a temporary hold. I don’t think he can hold it at the end of the year since the fall has never favored him. But Rafa did well at the AO although the surface had become a lot faster. If Rafa has a respectable showing in Wimby and does well in the American hard court swing – who knows? Many assume that Roger will continue to dominate the season. But we just saw yesterday: it ain’t that easy and contrary to some of his fans, even Roger can’t walk on water. The big question mark is of course the Djoker. If he rediscovers his mojo he might spoil the party at some tournaments.

      Reply

      • Yeah littlefoot!…You’re absolutely right!Rafa not in this position for a long time now..I can’t wait to see his amazing journey at least until USO…i think he will do well there…losing to The Fog and Pouille certainly will make him more fired up at USO this year…who knows maybe he can repeat the feat like 2013?Hahaha…we certainly can hope,right littlefoot?

        Oh btw..have u ever watch Rafa play anywhere littlefoot?

        Reply

        • MA, no I have not watched Rafa live anywhere, neither Roger, which is a shame. I wanted to watch Rafa in Hamburg, but I didn’t have time. And since Hamburg has been demoted it’s unlikely that Rafa will come again 🙁
          I watched some of the all time greats live when I was living in New York and later when the year end championship was in Hannover for a couple of years. I watched Becker against Sampras on indoor hardcourt which was a sight to behold.
          It’s so different to watch live tennis. The speed, force and precision is awe inspiring.

          Reply

          • Littlefoot…Oh!…yeah,it’s a shame indeed!..Hey,don’t worry ,maybe u can plan it to watch him next year…but,u better hurry to make a plan lilltefoot…time running so fast for our rafa…I hope one day your wish will come true littlefoot!…Oh!We have to find a shooting star!..and make a wish!!

    • MA,

      Good stuff! I don’t know how Rafa will do at Wimby. But it’s good to know that he can give Murray a ton for his money. I think that the North American summer hard court season could be important. Rafa is capable of doing well there as we all remember 2013! ?

      I am just going to watch and see what happens at Wimby! Should be exciting!

      Reply

  66. My feeling is: if Rafa does well at Wimbledon and stays ahead of Murray there and becomes no.1, chances are he will hold on to the no.1 ranking to be the YE no.1.

    Rafa can play well on the HCs when he’s playing with aggression and confidence; he has to stay fit and healthy though.

    Reply

    • The key to No 1 is certainly that Rafa manages to do well at Wimby – something which hasn’t happened for years. If he manages to turn that trend around, anything is possible.
      My personal hunch is that Roger is better equipped to handle the rest of the season. But we saw just yesterday that even Roger isn’t fail proof. And just as Rafa, he needs to stay healthy, too.
      It’s a bit surreal that two thirtysomethings are in the best position for winning the race for No 1. Actually, all of the top 5 are over thirty now! Has that ever happened before???

      Reply

      • And three of the four slams have been won by players over thirty. Only Wimby was won by Andy last year, when he was still 29. It really shows that the young generation still didn’t manage to create a lasting impact.

        Reply

      • Fed will be in worse physical conditions than Rafa if Fed plays Halle, followed by Wimbledon, Canada, Cincy, USO, Shanghai, Basel, Paris and London!

        My guess is Fed will skip Canada, and Paris after playing Basel (they’re B2B events) to focus on WTF. Canada is three weeks from Wimbledon this year, I doubt Fed will play two HC masters B2B just before the USO, unless he loses early at Wimbledon. Fed has to win both Wimbledon and USO to have a chance to overtake Rafa in the race, possible but unlikely imo.

        Djoko and Murray, their race points are too far behind Rafa’s now, and I doubt either of them will sweep up every event from now on to become no.1. Stan is 3775 race points behind Rafa now, I doubt he’s consistently good enough to gather more points than Rafa to overtake him. Thiem too, and Thiem is better on clay than on the HCs, so I doubt Thiem can overtake Rafa.

        The other players, they are too far behind in the race to catch up with Rafa. As I said, Rafa has to stay fit and healthy, plays well with confidence and aggression, and he’s prime for the pole position and holding on to it till the year end at least if not beyond.

        Reply

        • It’s interesting. My guess is that Federer will focus on the majors from here on out and only play other events as preparation. He does not need a lot of match play to reach his best level. If he does win Wimbly and USO he will be the YE 1 anyway.

          Rafa likes to play and does need match play to reach his best levels. Otoh it’s clear that he is going to listen to his body and his doctors and rest as needed.

          Stan? Who knows? If he does well at Wimbly and repeats at the USO? He’d still need to do well at other events and historically he doesn’t.

          Djokovic is a total mystery to me. He could recover his form, but will he?

          My guess is that Murray’s well on the way back and motivated. At the end of the year, it’s not about defending points, it’s about what you’ve won – and who’s won the rest.

          Reply

        • Well, we will see. My feeling is that fans from both players tend to count eggs from chicken who haven’t even hatched, yet. We tend to assume that Rafa and Roger will continue to do well for the rest of the season. But that is not a given at all.
          As far as Roger is concerned: that he skipped the whole clay season shows IMO that his main goal isn’t to regain the year-end No 1 position. After having won the AO he probably wants to boost his total slam count (and maybe his head-to-head with Rafa) and put some distance between himself, Rafa and Novak in order to settle the Goat question once and for all. And since he knew full well that he had no chance whatsoever to win the FO,he skipped the clay season – even if that will cost him potentially the No 1 position – in order to have a better shot at the remaining two slams, but especially at Wimby. And if he really manages to win one of the last two slams he still has an excellent chance to regain the No 1 position as a by-product.
          While the other contenders are probably too far behind in the overall race, they have an important role nevertheless. Especially Andy, because I think he’s slowly rediscovering his mojo.

          Reply

          • Agreed. I think Fed wands to increase his slam count and reduce his h2h deficit vs Nadal with the ultimate goal of cementing his GOAT status by the general populace/media.

            It would have been counter productive in this sense to have played the clay season because he would have risked his health, h2h record vs Rafa and his chances to Win one or both of the last two slams of the year.

          • What makes me laugh is that a lot of Fed fans were so sure that Federer will sweep Nadal off the court even on clay just because he has a bigger racket now!!!

            I hope they learnt a lesson when they the game’s most powerful SHBH being totally at the mercy of Rafa’s fearhand!

          • I think Fed won 3 in a row this year because of two factors: a)Fed threw caution to the winds and played aggressively like somebody who has nothing to lose. This took Rafa by surprise because all top ranked players usually play high percentage tennis. Fed started doing this when he was a break down in the 5th at AO. (b) Rafa’s forehand wasn’t back at its lethal best.

          • Yes, that’s how i see it, too.
            Interestingly the fedophile journos like Jon Wertheim now repeat like a mantra how important that 5th set at the AO was for the Goat question, because if Rafa had won it, then it would be now 17 vs 16, which is practically meaningless, and Rafa would’ve the double career slam. Wertheim is right from a formal point of view. And yet – it demonstrates also that the Goat debate is absurd to a certain degree: how can just one deciding set in a slam final which could’ve gone either way, decide the Goat question?
            Right now Roger is in front, but since Rafa managed to win another slam, too, he kept the quest open. And while Roger managed to better the head-to-head, Rafa had the more rounded season so far. Novak is the real loser as far as his own Goat quest is concerned.

          • Mary I think it comes down to Federer being traditionally faster to return to form after time off (for any reason) vs Rafa. So he was just in better form at that point in time.

            Rafa has more inertia than federer, but given time Rafa has greater momentum and when the two of them are at their best, advantage Rafa.

          • Hawkeye, yes, Roger was a bit quicker in his return to form. And he had the advantage of meeting Rafa on hardcourt, which favored him – especially since the AO court had been made faster this year,maybe for Roger or Nick Kyrgios,who knows?
            Bug now Rafa has the momentum on his side. The rest of the season will be really interesting,if Rafa and Roger stay healthy.
            Here’s an interesting link btw:
            http://www.openerarankings.com/Home?Race=3
            It’s real time ranking race to Wimby, which is important for the seeding.

          • littlefoot says AT 1:41 PM:”…how can just one deciding set in a slam final which could’ve gone either way, decide the Goat question?”
            .
            One regular poster on the GS did the same. LOL

          • Lol,augusta, that might’ve been me after the AO final! Touche!
            But at the time it was a valid pov IMO. The way I see it, the situation shifted again, though, because of Rafa’s win at RG. Rafa managed to keep the question open for now. But Jon Wertheim insisted a couple of days ago AFTER Rafa’s win at the FO that the fifth set of the AO was the most important fifth set ever played in tennis history, because it decided the GOAT question. That’s where I disagree with him.

          • “And he had the advantage of meeting Rafa on hardcourt, which favored him”

            Disagree. Indoors is where Fed has the advantage.

            Prior to this year, Rafa was a career 8-2 vs Fed on outdoor hard courts (including 2-0 in slams). His only losses were when he was just 18 and lost to Fed in five sets in Miami, when in the third set, Fed hit a shot long that was called good that would have given Rafa 0-40 and three chances to break and serve for the title. Some posters would say Federer should have given the point to Rafa (theoretically because same posters believe that Rafa should have given a point to Goffin). The other loss was a cold dark night in Indian Wells – conditions that can impact Rafa’s “good feelings”.

            Typically, Rafa owns Fed on hard courts and clay. No significant difference between them on grass when both are at their best IMO.

          • I think when Rafa is reasonably healthy and in form he is the best among the big 4 on US Open hard courts. He has beaten Muzz everytime, he lost to Djok 1 out of 3 times in finals and that one time was in 2011 when Rafa had to play back to back matches whereas Djok had one day off between matches. Also Rafa had burnt his fingers and he wasn’t in top condition even otherwise as he had cramps in his press conference. He hasn’t yet played Fed at USO but looking at his record against Fed on outdoor hard courts, it is likely that he will beat Fed. The disquieting thing is that Arthur Ashe now has a roof so if it is raining when Rafa plays against any of the other 3, he may lose under the “indoor” conditions.

          • Yes, Hawkeye, you’re right insofar as Rafanhas also beaten Fed on outdoor hardcourts often enough. But somehow the stars were aligned against Rafa this year.
            At the AO it may have been because the court was playing faster than in previous years. That was a clear advantage for Fed. Then Rafa had the hard semi against Dimi and of course Fed played really well and high risk tennis when it mattered in the 5th set. And the outcome of that match might well have had an impact upon their next two meetings at IW and Miami.
            We will see how it goes when they meet again this season. I think even without a direct win against Fed the momentum might’ve shifted again in favor of Rafa.

          • beaten Muzz from 2010. I have not verified Rafa’s record before that. But Rafa’s expertize is underestimated. He won Olympic gold on a hard court. Even in 2016, but for his wrist, I am sure he would have done better though I am not sure he would have beaten Muzz who seemed in awesome form.

          • Yeah, I agree the fast courts were done solely to help Fed get to the final, Rafa actually likes fast conditions. It’s where he does best vs Nole on hard courts for example.

            I don’t think it was a big factor vs Rafa in AO especially given his next two losses to Fed in IW and Miami. He was still without sufficient confidence.

            Rafa actually did much better than I thought he would in Australia after such a long layoff. I would have been satisfied with QF or better. Took Rafa longer to get going in 2013 losing to Zeballos and struggling to beat guys like Berlocq and Alund all on clay. Really didn’t find his form until IW.

            Even not at his best, he was up a break in the fifth set in Australia despite inconsistencies throughout the match on his part but he lacked the confidence I feel to protect his break.

            He has that confidence back in my opinion. And that’s what matters most.

          • IMO, Muzz took advantage of a mini Weak Era.

            This Rafa would have handled him I believe.

            Rafa was 3-1 on outdoor hard courts vs Murray prior to 2010 (0-1 indoors).

            Rafa had to retire due to injury vs Murray at AO in 2010. He’s 3-2 on hc vs Murray since (losses in Tokyo 2011 and Canada 2010).

          • VR – Stan doesn’t like to take the ball early. He also chips most of his returns. Roger takes big cuts at returns and takes the ball early well. So Stan getting wrecked by Rafa isn’t a great measuring stick for what would happen to Roger and his SHBH. I think the argument that Fed would have solid chance against Rafa with the bigger racket on clay is a feasible argument but there isn’t a way of knowing if it is true. I doubt anyone on this site said Fed would “sweep Nadal off the court on clay” but if so that’s quite far fetched.

          • Sorry I mean there is a way of knowing because we will know if they play on clay but obviously that didn’t happen this season.

    • All Rafa has to do to finish No. 1 is to stay healthy.

      He has a 3000 pt lead in the Race over Federer and almost 4000+ over the rest.

      It is, as they say, on his racquet.

      #GOAT

      Reply

      • Littlefoot,

        Thanks for posting that link with the rankings race. I don’t understand the numbers on the right hand side. Do you know what they mean?

        Reply

        • NNY, I think they indicate the number of points earned at Wimby two years ago. If you look at Novak’s numbers: he has 2000 in that column, because he won two years ago. It seems a long time ago, but the Wimby points won two years ago count for the seeding this year. Novak therefore might be second seed this year although he hasn’t done much lately. Rafa’s points on the other hand are almost exclusively his true ranking points. Since he doesn’t play a warm-up he has no chance to overtake Novak in the Wimby race.

          Reply

          • NNY, the number in the very right column is just the sum of all points which matter for the Wimby seeding of a player. That’s all. and has the most. therefore he will definitely be the No 1 seed. It surprised me that Novak is still No 2, but that’s the way it works. Rafa could’ve overtaken him by winning a few matches in Queens. It will be interesting how Wawa and Roger fare in Queens and if they manage to better their seeding.

          • In all likelihood, doesn’t really matter if Fed passes Rafa in Wimby seedings because either way, barring a Queens title for Wawrinka, Fedal will be 3-4 and can’t meet until the final. There is no advantage between 3rd and 4th seed.

          • However if Wawrinka DID win Queens (very unlikely) and Federer wins Halle (foregone conclusion).

            Rafa would drop to No. 5 seed and could conceivably have to play Federer, Djokovic and Murray in succession to win Wimbledon.

          • Yeah, I thought the same: No 3 or No 4 seeding doesn’t make a big difference for Rafa. No 5 could spell trouble, though. But while I assume until proven otherwise that Roger will win Halle, I don’t think that Wawa will win Queens. Too many strong grass court players there.

          • Hawkeye, if I look at the race to Wimby, then Wawa, and Roger for that matter, cannot overtake Rafa, even if he wins Queens. Rafa has over 7000 points in the race to Wimby while Wawa has 6400 and a few. He can never get above 7000, even if he could theoretically add 500 by winning Queens. If the real life ranking from my link is correct, then Rafa’s No 3 seed is secure. However, Roger could be stuck with the No 5 seed if he doesn’t win Halle or if Wawa wins Queens. In this case Roger and Rafa could end up in the same half or even quarter at Wimby after all. Maybe, we should wish Roger good luck for Halle…

          • Roger’s loss at Stuttgard could’ve a greater impact on the seeding than we thought if Stan has a good showing at Queens. So much for the theory that Roger gifted Tommy Haas the win! In order to secure the No 4 seeding Roger needs to do well in Halle and Stan needs to do poorly at Queens. It’s all a bit crazy and complicated this year.
            If we factor in a hypothetical rigging team and their hypothetical goals, my head starts to spin, lol!

          • Pre-Wimby 2017 grass points count double so Federer and Wawrinka can add 1000 points with title wins next week.

          • Yes, ok, that does make more sense seeding wise. So, all is possible, and Rafa, Wawa and Roger can end up as No 3,4 or 5, depending on how Roger and Wawa play at Queens and Halle.
            We should hope that Roger plays well and that Wawa doesn’t.

          • In the grass seeding formula, if Wawa wins Queen’s, he gains 1000 points because the warm up points will appear twice, once in the ranking points and another in the grass points in the last one year.

          • I may well be beating this to death. But I’m very intrigued by the Wimby seeding conundrum now. Rogers loss in Stuttgart definitely cost him the No 2 seed, which he could’ve snatched away from Novak if he had only beaten Tommy Haas and then won Halle. Even if he wins Halle now, he cannot catch the Djoker. He will miss him by 10 measly points! However, Wawa could theoretically become the No 2 seed if he wins Queens…
            But I’m sure Team Rafa has looked at the consequences of pulling out of Queens as well. And they may also have concluded that a Wawa win is unlikely.
            Since we have atm no idea how anybody of the top 5 is going to play on grass, we can’t even know how exactly the seeding and the subsequent draw will impact the tournament. For example: will it be good or bad to be in Novak’s quarter?

          • Yeah, that’s the way I’m looking at it. Too many unknowns.

            Ideally, I just want Rafa to be in the Top 4 seeds and would prefer that Fedal be in opposite halves (and to avoid big hitters like Kyrgios, Raonic, Brown, Isner, Ivo, etc.).

          • I also would like Fedal to be in opposite halfs. I certainly wouldn’t want them to meet in the quarters.
            But right now I don’t care overmuch where the Djoker ends up, although he might gather some steam – who knows?
            For Rafa the biggest worry of the first week are the big hitters anyway. And traditionally they have always been in Rafa’s path in the last few years – and we know that Wimby honors traditions, lol… 😉

          • Fed didn’t gift the Haas match littlefoot. He just most likely didn’t put max effort in because it is a small tournament and it is one of his good friend Haas’ very last events and at his home court. Also Fed probably isn’t even thinking about the seeding. He knows if he plays his best tennis at Wimbledon he can beat anybody there.

          • What I like about the whole thing is that the rigging team won’t find it easy to produce the ideal draw. Unlike in other slams, Wimbly team has to give some consideration to Muzz though I guess if push comes to shove, they will ditch their local boy.
            Incidentally, I would prefer to have Rafa in Fed’s half.

          • Of course we can expect the big hitters to be in Rafa’s path as he is a threat to both Fed and Muzz!

          • Most probable seeding
            1. Muzz
            2 Djok
            3 and 4. Fed and Rafa in some order depending on Fed’s Halle results
            5. Wawa
            So my prediction, Fed will prefer the Djok half.

      • I have to say, regarding all this speculation about seeding, I don’t think these guys -and their teams- care that much. They’re worried about winning the match in front of them, not looking ahead to the SF. Everyone knows how easily upsets can happen on grass, especially first week. And Rafa hasn’t made it into the second week in years. I am sure his first through ninth goal is getting some rest, not getting injured, and staying healthy for rest of the season. Maybe 10th is securing a high seed for Wimby. To be honest, I won’t be that surprised if he pulls out of the tournament.

        Reply

        • Joe Smith, the top players and their teams DO worry about the seeding to a certain extent, even if their imminent worry is about getting through the first opponents. I remember that players complained about the difficulty they may run into if they didn’t manage to secure a top seeding anymore for some reason. But maybe we fans worry excessively, lol!
          As to Rafa pulling out of Wimby: yes, the withdrawal from Queens could mean that indeed something isn’t quite ok. But I would be very surprised if Rafa pulls out of Wimby just like that. He loves the tournament, even if he hasn’t done well there in the last few years. And at least during RG he has been in top form. Why should he then pull out of Wimby? The conditions may never be as favorable again for him, and he has only a limited amount of time left in his career.

          Reply

    • I agree. Would be nice if he could regain the No 1 position. But I’m not overly concerned by this. For now it’s great that he finally managed to win another slam in an absolutely dominant fashion and that he seems to be a steady contender again, and not only on clay.

      Reply

  68. Vamosrafa

    Been meaning to ask you how did your exam go? It was kind of Rfa to dispose of his opponent so quickly to allow you to get back to your studying 😉

    Reply

    • loll thanks a lot for asking Ed! I had two exams. One went good, the other not so much. The one that didn’t go well was the day after the final lol.

      Yes, rafa was kind enough to dispose of his opponent in quick time but it did keep me distracted 😉

      Anyway, hoping I will clear them both 🙂

      Hope all is well with you.

      Reply

      • May I ask, VR, what kind of exams you’re learning for? Hopefully it will all work out for you!
        This phase in life is so far behind me – and yet, sometimes I dream that I have to do it all over again, lol! It makes for a nice wake-up, though 😉

        Reply

        • Yeah VR…i’ve been meaning to ask u about your exams for 2 or 3 days now..but my finger’s always typing something else!!..Hopefully the month of Ramadhan will bring u luck and joy VR…Oh!i got something for u on Non tennis VR!…Hope u will like it!…

          Reply

          • Thanks MA.hoping and praying Ramazan will bring good fortune. I will check out the non tennis page

        • Hey littlefoot,

          I work in the financial services for Ernst & Young here in London but we are also studying toward the CA ( Chartered Accountancy)
          🙂

          Reply

          • @Littlefoot, I do intend to visit Wimbledon 🙂 I would have gone to Queens and probably gotten a media pass from Ricky but Rafa’s not going there so makes it quite less likely now haha..

            @Mary, If I pass these ones, I will only be left with a case study which will take place in November! So not much left

          • The goat debate has been REALLY gathering steam this season. Who would’ve thought so one year ago? We were not discussing if but when Novak would catch up. We even assumed that it could happen during the 2016 season, that he would equal Rafa’s slam count, and close the gap between him and Roger considerably,lol!
            But we shouldn’t totally forget about Novak IMO. I doubt that he will ever become again the slam-winning machine he was in the past few years. He’s over thirty now, too, and the young guns WILL start winning slams eventually. But who says that he will never ever win a slam again? Such a claim would be very foolish. Who’s more likely to win three more slams – Rafa or Novak? Right now we rafafans are on Cloud Ten and feel he can do anything, but the picture might change very quickly again. Novak might rediscover his mojo as we speak, and Rafa might pick up another injury, and talk about Novak the Goat might start again.
            As it is, each of the Big Three, have done great and unique things which distinguish them from the others: Novak really managed to hold all four slams at the same time, Rafa won RG a whopping ten times and Roger leads in the overall slam count and in weeks as No 1. And they all managed to do this while the others are active. That is the true mind boggling thing – but Roger definitely had a head start and accumulated some records while the other goats were not active, yet. He had the meadow for himself. That’s of course not his fault. But it needs to be considered nonetheless, as the article points out.

          • My comment was aimed at Hawkeye’s article below. Somehow it ended up in the wrong thread..

          • Not meaning to weigh in on tennis GOAT, but thank-you, littlefoot, for bringing up Novak.

            I never forget about Nole. Hope springs eternal for him. He just turned 30. It’s not time to write him off yet, I don’t think. He could be permanently burnt out or he could put together another winning streak – physically he could be good for many years to come. His motivation and desire though is in question.

          • rc!..I never write off Novak…He’s too great a champion to fade away just like that..2 years ago i predicted on TX that Novak will win 2 slams in 2016..and he will stop for a while..and i predicted again that before he retires he will once again win 2 slam[at least]…
            For me,what Novak go through atm is that he drained..physically and mentally..he’s already said that after won FO last year,he felt empty..so,he needs time to fill that emptiness back..how long?Not sure..Rafa took 3 years to overcome his obstacles..i guess Novak will take less time than that considering he’s not injured much like Rafa…u know rc?Reading some of the comments from Novak fans makes me really sad…they treat Novak like a machine..they want Novak winning all the time…and Novak,just want to be a normal human being atm…is it too much to ask?

      • No surprise, but I don’t agree. Main factor in any comparison of this sort should be performance in tournaments, with biggest tournaments counted most. By that measure, Fed narrowly better at this time, though may change, perhaps even this year. By that widely agreed upon measure, I adapt my previous claim, which maybe this time will garner general approval:

        Federer clearly better than Nadal off clay (17 slams, 6 WTF, 18 masters vs. 5 slams, 0 WTF, 8 masters).

        Nadal (even more) clearly better than Federer on clay (10 slams, 22 masters vs, 1 slam, 2 masters).

        Reply

        • Well, the whole point of the writer’s POV is that there is much more to the story than just title count which has always been my point, along with players like Agassi and Laver for instance.

          The article clearly points out Fed’s advantage prior to the arrival of the Gold Era 2008 onwards.

          Yes Rafa is the undisputed best on clay ever and holds a huge advantage on clay over everybody, not just Federer.

          However, Federer is arguably not even best of all time on hard courts.

          Djokovic is six years younger than Federer and is just two hard court slam titles behind Federer’s 10. Djokovic has won 8 of 25 HC slams played for 32% compared to Federer who has won 29% of his HC slams and I believe Djokovic has played in a tougher era.

          Djokovic has 22 hard court Masters titles out of 66 events played for a success rate of33.3%!

          Federer, by comparison is just 24%,

          Nor is Fed best arguably the best ever when you look at WTF. Yes he has 6 titles but he’s played that event 14 years for a success rate of just 42.9% which is lower than Djokovic with 5 titles of 10 years played for 50% win rate.

          Even Sampras had a better conversion rate at WTF than Fed winning 5 of 11 years (45.5%).

          Speaking of Sampras, he won seven Wimbledon titles of 14 played (50%). Federer won seven Wimbledon titles in 18 tries (38.9%).

          So I think:

          Djokovic is the best ever HC player.
          Sampras is the best ever grass court player.
          Rafa is the best ever clay court player and best ever period.

          Federer is the second best player of all time.

          Reply

          • I guess that’s the least controversial thing that most here having a GOAT opinion can agree on (including myself, RITB, Mary, Joe, Benny, Scoot D, abhirf, RITB – sorry for anyone I left out).

            Federer is one of the top 2 players of all time.

          • What are you referring to as the least controversial thing that all can agree on? Is it my claims above? I can’t imagine anyone would deny either of those, whereas someone might deny Nadal (or Federer) a place in the top 2.

          • I think there are just as few that would disagree with my statement than would disagree with yours.

            And you twisted my statement.

            I just think if you are going to look at different surfaces you should look at them individually which is what I did.

            The writer puts their respective achievements overall in context.

            The devil is in the details.

          • I was honestly unsure what you meant was something we all agree on. Is it that Federer is one of the top 2 of all time? If so, I was unaware that everyone on your list agrees with that.

            Apologies if I twisted your words. Not sure how I did but I didn’t mean to.

          • Certainly agree that HC comparison between Fed and Nole is close and grass comparison between Fed and Sampras is very close.

          • To me Sampras’ 7 Wimbledon titles are tougher than Fed’s because they’re won on fast grass. On fast grass even Sampras was susceptible to big servers even though he himself is also a big (and great) server.

            Even if Fed retired immediately after winning his last Wimbledon title in 2012, he would still be 7/8 in Wimbledon finals, so he’s still slightly worse off than Sampras’ 7/7 in finals.

            Fed made more finals because he could sustain his level on grass longer than Sampras did, i.e. his longevity comes into play. But, Sampras had his illness (thalassemia minor) and so he retired at age 31. Sampras didn’t make the final after 2000.

          • All great points LS.

            I was going to bring up court speed in a follow up post so thanks for that.

            And great observation on the 7/8 thingy (read hard g please ).

          • Pct. of finals won not as important as pct. of tournaments won. Hawkeye’s original point was about the latter (7/14) for Sampras, which Fed was at after 2012. My point was simply that Fed can’t be marked down for making two finals and a SF after that point. To the contrary, it enhances his record.

            This point is independent of course of any claims about strength of competition, etc.

          • Independent of competition I’d agree. His results dropped significantly with the arrival of the Big Four.

            I’ve also said several times before that Federer’s greatness has as much to do with unmatched longevity as it does his obviously rare talent.

          • Hakweye, what you say makes a lot of sense. And I am not trying to depict Federer as GOAT not matter what. But just quickly let’s consider this factor: You said Sampras won seven Wimbledon titles of 14 played (50%). Federer won seven Wimbledon titles in 18 tries (38.9%). Let’s suppose Sampras played 4 more Wimbledons and didn’t win any tile, then his % would have dropped to that of Fed. I mean Federer’s % are lower than Nole’s on HC and Samprass on grass, but that’s relative. It is highly expected that Nole’s % will only fall, although theoritically everything is possible. We’ll have a much clearer picture after the big 4 retire. As I said many times, longevity it’s not to be taken for granted. It’s very hard to be in top after 30 and still keep your hardly earned % at a respectable level.
            Do I think Fed is the GOAT? Not exaclty. That’s a limiting, flawed, incomplete and very narrow view. The main reason is that GOAT means something different for every person. Words are symbols and they are interpreted in multiple ways, depending on someone’s past experiences, values, principles etc. Agree with all those who say we should have a top5/top 10 best tennis players ever and enjoy their creation.

          • I agree that GOAT is subjective opinion. Always have maintained that.

            i feel Sampras was the better grass player because Feds first five Wimbledon titles were during what many including the writer of the article was a relatively weak era.

            But I don’t see the point of splitting out the surfaces when determining GOAT anyways.

            I was simply countering Joes POV.

          • I think a comparison between Federer and Sampras at Wimbledon serves nicely to illustrate my point that overall tournament performance is the main criterion when comparing overall greatness.

            Federer and Sampras are tied with 7 Wimby titles apiece. However, Sampras won every final he made there, whereas Federer has made 10 finals. His 3 losses, of course, were to Rafa (2008) and Nole (2014, 2015). The first two of those matches went 5 sets and are considered two of the greatest Wimby finals ever played. In my book, Roger gets the grass nod over Sampras for those 3 extra finals. Certainly it makes no sense to say they count for nothing in the comparison. Making it to the final of a GS, only to lose a close match to an all-time great, counts for a lot.

            This data is also relevant to winning pct. As Eugene notes, had Roger retired after his 2012 win, he would be equal with Sampras in terms of Wimby title pct. Are we to lower Roger’s comparative ranking against Sampras because he managed to make 2 finals (and 1 SF) at the ages of 32-34? That makes no sense.

          • Bleacherreport is just biased fan bloggers.

            Yes he made finals but his first five consecutive titles were during a questionable period of competition.

            So yeah Sampras for me on grass still stands over Federer.

          • Eugene, if Sampras could play for another four years (assuming good health), who knows he may win one more Wimbledon?

            As I’ve mentioned in my post just before this, Sampras suffered from thalassemia (minor) and so he could not play top level tennis for any longer and had to retire at age 31.

            Fed is 7/8 in finals up to his Wimbledon title no.7 in 2012, so he wasnt at 100% success rate in Wimbledon finals, unlike Sampras.

    • Toni has always said Fed is the GOAT. I suspect he truly believes this and also he wants to take pressure away from Rafa.

      Needless to say, I disagree with Uncle Toni on this, Rafa is the GOAT.

      Reply

      • Having said this, Uncle T is himself the GOAT of coaches. No coach, dead or alive, rivals Uncle T’s achievements as coach. Even with his modesty, he would have a hard time disputing that.

        Reply

      • RITB 3.0 (AT 2:05 PM),

        Rafa has said that R.Laver is GOAT.

        Interview with Rafa in Basel in October 2014.
        Tages-Anzeiger, October 20, 2014: ¤¤Roger and I get along, but we are not friends.
        Question: “Do you follow the debate as to who the greatest tennis player is? You, Federer or someone from the past? What is your view?”
        RAFA: “It’s difficult to speculate as long as our careers are not yet completed. But in my opinion there much evidence that Rod Laver is the best in history. He won the calendar Grand Slam, joined the pros and won the Grand Slam again after a long break. That’s great. If he had not turned pro, he would certainly have won more majors than me and probably more than Roger as well. Laver must definitely be considered in this discussion. Roger has the most Grand Slams titles and broken many records, he is certainly one of them.” ¤¤
        (Translated from German by Chris Boardman)
        http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sport/tennis/Roger-und-ich-verstehen-uns-sind-aber-keine-Freunde/story/11831419

        Reply

        • Thanks Gussie. I respect Rafa’s opinion and I believe he truly believes that. I think he also believes he is not yet at Fed’s level in terms of achievements.

          Reply

    • MA,

      I happen to agree with you regarding the GOAT issue. Just to be clear, I have no problem with those who choose to believe in this concept. That is their prerogative.

      For myself, I choose to believe that a player can only be the greatest in their own era. That seems to be the fairest way to assess the players through the generations. Rod Laver seems to get short shrift because he played in the 60’s when tennis only had clay and grass surfaces, along with indoor wood courts. He also played at a time when the sport was in the midst of a period when there was conflict over amateur versus pro tennis. It was s real struggle for those who wanted tennis to be a professional sport to try to effect change. Players like Laver who did join the pro ranks were penalized by not being allowed to play in certain slams and tournaments. Some of Laver’s wins are not included in the official record. But he changed the game with his lefty topspin and played the best of the best. The only player to win the calendar grand slam in the open era. He did it twice, first on 1962. It is significant in that none of his peers were able to go it. So no. After that there were no hard courts back then, because it was still a singular achievement.

      That’s why I think the great champions deserve recognition for their contributions to the sport. It may be human nature to edbtvto anoint one player as GOAT, but in my opinion it deprives the greats from the past of the true recognition and acknowledgment of their achievements.

      Reply

      • Autocorrect strikes again! I try to correct as I go along, but still miss things. I meant to say that Laver did the calendar grand slam and even though it was only on surfaces like clay and grass and there were no hard courts back then, it was still a singular achievement because none of peers were able to do it. If it was easy even back then, someone else would have done it.

        Reply

      • Nny!!…Very much agree with u!!Can u imagine Nny if Laver’s lost years never existed?I mean he’s not enter a single majors for 5 years..and he still in his prime at that time?Roughly we can say that he maybe will surpassed Roger and Rafa’s slam in that 5 years if he were allowed to play…

        So,to me it’s pretty disrespectful to Laver if we’re only excited debating between Rog and Rafa..but then everybody is entitled to their opinion..I just wish that Laver’s name will always came up everytime we discuss about The GOAT..because he’s certainly one of them…

        Reply

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