The 53rd installment of the Novak Djokovic vs. Rafael Nadal rivalry was supposed to be another instant classic.
Djokovic had other ideas.
Producing a master-class performance in a second consecutive match, the world No. 1 destroyed Nadal 6-3, 6-2, 6-3 in just two hours and four minutes to capture a record seventh Australian Open title on Sunday night. Two days after committing a mere five unforced errors throughout a 6-0, 6-2, 6-2 semifinal destruction of Lucas Pouille, Djokovic made only nine errors in the final.
The top-seeded Serb pounced on Nadal right away, breaking serve in the second game and holding his first four service games at love. He lost a grand total of one service point in the entire first set.
Things never got much better for Nadal, who finished with 28 unforced errors also also struck far fewer winners than his red-hot opponent (21 to 34). The second-ranked Spaniard, who was bidding for his second Aussie title 10 years after his first, earned only one break-point chance and failed to convert it at 3-2 in the third set.
Highlights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjuq9GDYNl4
Full trophy ceremony:
“It ranks right at the top,” Djokovic said when asked where this ranks in his Grand Slam final performances–15 of which have resulted in victories. “Under the circumstances, playing against Nadal, such an important match, yeah–it’s amazing. Obviously back-to-back semifinals and finals, I think I made 15 (really 14) unforced errors in total in two matches; it’s quite pleasantly surprising to myself, as well, even though I always believe I can play this way (and) visualize myself playing this way. At this level, as I said, under the circumstances, it was truly a perfect match.”
“I think, of course, he played I think fantastic,” Nadal praised. “At the same time is true that when he’s playing that way, I think I needed something else. I was not able to have that extra thing tonight, being honest, no. Yeah, was unbelievable the way that he played, no doubt about that.
“The real thing is he played so well. He did a lot of things very difficult unbelievable well. He hit so long. His return was fantastic. He was super quick.”
He was, in short, unbeatable. The real thing, too, is that Nadal was not at his best; Djokovic made sure the Spaniard couldn’t be. But not even Nadal’s best–not anyone’s best–could have competed with Djokovic on this night. He was simply too good.
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welp
Djoko’s serve and returns were unbelievable!
This match by Djoko was something like Rafa’s vs Stan at FO2017 final, and Fed vs Murray’s Wimbledon 2015 SF. The opponents simply had no answers.
I think we’ve had this conversation before , that when Rafa is getting outplayed , its such a surprise to him that often has this mental block . Maybe he then reverts to his counterpunching game, which is when he’s had most success when getting outplayed .
Or maybe its simply against Djokovic that he has this trouble.In 2011, he got comprehensively outplayed even on clay.Must have been a shock .
Im disappointed it wasn’t a closer match ,I do feel for the Nadal fans, happy for Djokovic though .
Fed can sleep easier for a while…
I’m not sure Fed can, because this Djoko seems unstoppable; he may have a clean sweep this year, if not maybe wins the other two non clay slams and inches closer to Fed’s tally.
As I said sometimes last year after Wimbledon, Djoko may become the ultimate Goat, and Rafa remains the Goat on clay. Fed has to be contented to be the Goat on grass.
As a Nadal fan, I am not a happy camper. But hey! There are three more Slams to be won this season and Nadal should win at least two of them, providing he stays fit.
RAFA ROCKS
I hope so, the channel slams will be nice. Djoko may win the USO again, now that it’s slower and the roof structure blocks out the wind. Djoko may well get more than eleven HC slams, more than what Fed has. If that happens, he’s truly the HC king.
Interesting. The clay GOAT prefers a faster surface than the HC one.
Big Al, Rafa said that himself! Slower HC means he has to grind and that’s not good for his body – HC different from clay surface. On slower HC, he couldn’t hit through the court. His results are better on quicker HCs than slower ones, believe it or not.
He only won four IWs, one AO on slower HCs, but won two at Montreal where the courts were quicker than at Toronto, one Cincy, three USOs and one Madrid indoors. He also won 500 events at Dubai, Tokyo and Beijing on quicker courts.
He’s 3-4 vs Djoko at Canada/Cincy/USO but he’s a lot worse at 1-8 vs Djoko at AO/IW/Miami!
IW suits Nadal,it’s slow but high bouncing.Its the bounce more than the speed
The desert air means the ball flies through the air and that helps his opponents who play agresive like Madrid which isn’t Nadals best .
Yeah and Rafa still won three IWs there despite the desert air made the ball quicker. Madrid is not the traditional clay court and Rafa still won there five times (one on indoor HC), more than anyone else.
Djoko better on slower HCs, can’t argue with six AOs on slower HCs (2019 should be on quick HC); five IWs and six Miami.
He has four at Canada (actually two at Toronto which wasn’t a quick court), one Cincy, four Shanghai and three USOs. The Paris and WTF indoors are not quick courts these days.
Djoko is better on slower HCs than quicker ones, but he’s simply so good on the HCs that he can win anywhere, and that’s why I say he’s the Goat on HCs.
Novak was truly flawless.
My condolences to all Rafans, don’t worry Rafa will get back up.
Not quite sure what happened to Rafa. Novak had an answer for everything and I quit watching midway through the 2nd set. But it was 4:00 in the morning and it wasn’t going to be a “classic.”
The match between Naomi and Petra was better.
Congrats to Novak, he played awesome!
Yeah Naomi vs Petra was better.
So happy for Naomi would have been also happy if Petra Kvitova had won.
Both ladies have good characters.
I agree, both ladies seem to have good characters and I also would have been happy if Petra had won. Was pulling for Naomi though!
lol this was a heavy heavy beat-down. luckily for the dirtballer a clay court season is around so he’ll recover with some wins on the surface no one is carrying about. a big shout out to Cheryl – a tennis roof expert haha.
Really bummed about the loss to Rafa. I hope he can regroup and come back strong for the rest of the season and hopefully faces as less of Djokovic as possible.
As for Djokovic, there has been very little mentioned about his monster last nine six months. 3 back to back slams is mind boggling in the best of times but coming back from injury and surgery, capturing the slams beating opponents in straight sets in the finals is other worldly. And he completed his career masters slam too. And only can gain points till wimbledon. I hope Rafa does not face him in the sunshine masters stretch to avoid more mental trauma before the clay season.
Kudos to Djokovic but Vamos Rafa no matter what. Except for the finals performance, the other six rounds were a joy to watch
I wonder if Moyá will add anything new to the mix. Rafa is going to meet Novak more often than not in finals, he’s got to come up with something better…. No?
Maybe add in a better BHDTL, improves the second serve, improves the ROS, improves his court positioning esp after returning serves, flattens the CC FH a little? Heck, looks like there’s a one whole list of things he can improve on!
Well it was a disappointing final yes n nind of us expected this beatdown n it happened again when double careee slam was at stake. Rafa is really jinxed At AO…4 finals loss and 1 win…
Anyways given he barely played last 4 months…none of us expected him to do anything at AO…he reaches the final..picks up 840 points…gives us reasons to feel happy…so I would rate it as positive…as he says he had no time to get prepared n he needs time n more work n more matches ..so I’m sure he will do the work…but Novak is a puzzle whose solution he has to find out n even fed is an issue now…right now it’s looking all Novak but things change in tennis pretty fast…it looked all rafa aftee 2009 ao n even after 2010 uso but we know what happened…it looked all Novak after 2012 ao and 2016 fo but we know what happened..lets wait and see what the next 4 months bring…however rafa has to beat Novak before french else if they meet at RG it will be advantage Novak..
Jeez can some of you put things in context please! Ricky predicted rafa would lose to de minaur in the third round! He exceeded expectations but he simply wasn’t ready to play a fired up Nole in a slam final!
Stop talking as if he doesn’t know how to beat him once he gets match play and practice!
Tennis is a mental game amy. He needs to beat him once before the French..I stand by it..Remember 2012..after he suffered 7 straight losses..Rafa beat him in MC and Rome, hence beat him in RG..He needs a win under his belt to go full hog at RG and he needs to protect his no 2 so that he can meet Novak only in final
Never mind Sanju, clay is different from HC. Rafa knows how to win on clay; Djoko while he’s good on clay, he’s not unbeatable, his flat shots won’t work so well on clay.
The important thing for Rafa is not to get injured; as long as he’s fit, he will be able to move fast and freely esp on clay and so can get to most if not all the balls.
Rafa needs match plays to build his confidence. Rafa said Djoko was very quick, and I feel Djoko moves so well because he’s injury free and has not stopped playing and training since winning at Wimbledon.
Djoko has won or reached the final at Queens, Wimbledon, Cincy, USO, Shanghai, Paris, WTF and now AO; with only blips at Toronto and Doha in between. He has the momentum with him that seems no one can stop at the moment.
Rafa has to build his own momentum and be ready for the clay season; if he has a great clay season, then perhaps thereafter he may continue with the winning momentum, we’ll see. The most important thing is that Rafa remains injury free.
My post wasn’t actually in response to yours Sanju although for some reason it ended up there! I agree with you 100% that tennis is a mental game!☺
Hats off to Joker…just too good…but Fed will be back!
Amy you hit the nail on the head hun ….
The weather played a part .
I am sorry to the ride-or-die Rafans. Although I believed all along that Novak would have the edge if they met, I still held out hope that Rafa would pull it out and get that 2nd AO title that he would absolutely deserve if he ever gets it. Personally, I still believe that Rafa will end his career with double career slam. I just think that he has played too well at AO in recent years to not get over the line. It may take someone else taking out Novak for it to happen, but it I believe it will happen one way or the other.
Quite honestly, my favorite scenario for the Big 3 would be for each of them to end their careers with 20 majors total. I understand that the respective die-hard fan bases of each guy would prefer for their guy to be considered the definitive GOAT. For me, though, I just feel like each of them have been so unfathomably great for so long, and have brought so much to the game, that it would only be fair and right to have it be a 3-way pick-your-poison type thing.
Realistically, though, the only way I can see Rafa NOT getting passed 20 slams is if Novak somehow manages to be so unfathomably dominant for the next 3 years that he prevents Rafa from winning 4 more. However, any time over the last decade or so that it felt like one of these guys was just going to start running away with everything and never lose again, they have always temporarily fallen from their dominance. So there really is no way to be sure that either Novak or Rafa will take over and win everything. Novak is looking like he is capable of it, but who knows…
As for Fed, I see him being nothing more than a dark horse at this year’s Wimbledon and maybe next year’s AO. But there’s just no way you can view a guy pushing 38 as any more than a dark horse, it’s just the way it is. I can understand the young guys still not having a realistic shot over Novak and Rafa, as they are only in their early 30’s at least. But there is just no excuse anymore for the really solid, hungry younger guys to be losing to a 38 year old. I don’t care that Fed is one of the 3 greatest ever- “Father Time” is undeniably intervening now, and these younger guys need to be taking advantage of that. Once Rafa and Novak enter their mid-to-late 30’s, the younger guys should take advantage of them, too.
I’m starting to wonder if maybe it’s possible that all this time, the younger guys actually have been really good, and the Big 3 really were THAT much better than them. I think we’ve always assumed that because all the all-time greats were winning majors at a young age, then that must mean that all the post-Big3 generations were all just pathetically bad players with no will to win. Who knows, maybe they really are worse than previous generations’ young guns? I really wonder, though, if it’s somehow possible that we have, dare I say, UNDERrated the Big 3’s level of invincibility in recent years? I really wonder about this…
Rafa was asked this quesstion many times. He never says it out directly but you know he thinks that the level of play of the Big 3 (or 4) is so much higher than any other player in any other era, and that is the reason why the younger players cannot break through. The nextgen are as good or better than any generation except the Big 4 generation. Players born in the Big 4 generation are the most unlucky, followed those of the next generation.
I hope Rafa has a great clay season so that he can continue with his winning momentum right after and carries it over across the year to the AO next year injury free.
Rafa is unfortunate that he has had to suffer injuries so often at the AO – 2010; 2011; missed 2013 due to injury; 2014; came back from injury in 2015; came back from injury in 2017 and lost to Fed who’s also just back from injury break; 2018; 2019 just came back from injury break!
It’s important that he ends a season well without injuries so that he can begin another in good health and fitness. The most important thing is to plan his schedule well now that he’s 32/33. He can’t just play everything like he’s 22 (even at 22 he would also get injured!).
I see players like Tsitsipas or Sasha or Shapo being good and potentially great players of the next gen. In fact I see them as great players in the making.
You don’t get into TOP ten, stays inside TOP four for two good years at the age of 20/21 without being great. Tsitsipas plays like Fed and beats Fed at his own game in the slam where Fed was the defending champion. Tsitsipas is on the verge of reaching top ten; can’t say he’s not great as a young player.
Shapo is the youngest of the trio and he comes with a flamboyant aggressive game and he’s inside TOP 30. There’s still De Minaur, Coric and Khachanov, who are starting to make their moves up the rankings, with Coric beating Fed twice last year and Khachanov beating Djoko in a Masters final.
I’m excited about this new generation of players, esp Tsitsipas. He’s ambitious and dedicated to the sports, plays a beautiful game, fearless, moves well and works hard. I think he’ll become a great player and wins many slams.
Players born in the Big 4 generation are the most unlucky, followed by those of the next generation.
Very surprised at first by this result, but after watching some replays, I really don’t think there was anything Nadal could have done to change the result, even if he could have made it closer by playing better. Novak really did play something close to a flawless match. 9 UE in an entire slam final has not happened for a long, long time (I think McEnroe had 3-4 when he crushed Connors at Wimby in ’84).
As I suspected, the Djokovic ROS on Nadal’s serve was an advantage, though a larger one than I thought. And Novak’s serve was incredibly good. Novak has a reputation for being a grinder, which he certainly can do better than anyone. But he played a really aggressive brand of tennis yesterday; the depth and placement of his shots was not the mark of someone playing it safe.
Based on this performance, and generally his record for the last few years, I think Novak should be considered the favourite going into RG.
Yup and for wimbledon and the US open too!
As I said earlier on, whoever comes out being the more aggressive should win, in this case it’s Djoko.
Djoko came all prepared, never let Rafa into the match. It reminded me of Djoko during 2016 AO, ground his way through the draw, and then annihilated Fed in the SF and Murray in the final!
Rafa said it himself, even if he could find another gear, he still won’t be able to beat this Djoko. To beat Djoko, one must not allow him to play his game! Perhaps the in the zone Cilic may get a set; perhaps the unwavering Stan may get a chance to beat this Djoko; to me the key is you’ve to be more aggressive than Djoko to start with.
I’ve to go back to the 2007 Fed I feel, to find a version of Fed who’s as good or even better than this Djoko. Fed did impressed me a lot at that AO, I thought Gonzo looked unbeatable after beating both Rafa and Haas in straight sets but Fed easily dispatched him in style, not losing a set. The Fed with a great serve and great varieties might do the job. I do feel too that Rafa of USO2010 could make a match of this as he was in peak form physically and was great at both defence and offence.
The problem with Rafa’s acquired good serve is that he has to feel confident when serving. Against Djoko, he felt pressurized, and he was looking at the serve clock all the time when serving his first serve, that added to the pressure! To serve well, Rafa has to be confident; against his other opponents, he’s confident because he knew they weren’t great returners of serves.
In a way, this match reminded me of Fed’s Wimbledon 2015 when he annihilated Murray in the SF, playing his best match up till then, but once he faced Djoko(deep down I knew he would have problems because of Djoko’s ROS), he struggled to win a set and lost the match in four. Of course Rafa had done worse in this AO final, but the way he dispatched Tsitsipas gave us false hope that he might do well against Djoko in the final; not unlike Fed in Wimbledon 2015. Both cases, Djoko put his great ROS into good use, not even Fed’s great serve could be spared.
Being a Nadal fan, its so painful to even watch the highlights. I hope Nadal and Moya admit and understand what went wrong. Rafas game was pathetic the first few games not able to even hit a normal forehand instead reaching out for a defensive forehand on even mid court balls. It was awkward. Novak played great yes but Rafa is a fighter and only Novak has him mentally this weak and worse than 2011. Agreed its just a post match opinion and wouldnt have been this worse if the match was 4 sets or closer. But unless Nadal clears his head and knows he has the game to stay and beat Novak.. this is going to continue. He cant walk into a french final thinking Novak has a better game.
Rafa kept saying Novak played unbelievable. Maybe he was trying to not say he played bad and wanted to give credit.. but if stays true to himself.. this is more bad playing by him than all Novak.
Rafa was bad no doubt but Djoko was unbelievably good! He made Rafa played bad, just like Rafa did to most of his other opponents.
Djoko’s serves and returns were unbelievable, putting pressure onto all his opponents including Rafa. This match reminded me of AO2016 SF and Final; and also Wimbledon 2015 when Fed was unbelievable against Murray in the SF but when in the final, Djoko not only simply neutralized Fed’s serve but also served impeccably himself to beat Fed, just like in this AO final.
Imo, only a few guys playing at the TOP of their games could have a chance against this Djoko:
1) top form Stan with his unwavering groundstrokes from the baseline throughout the whole match, for Stan simply has the power to blow anyone off the court consistently throughout a match and he’s a bad match up for Djoko at the slams;
2) the AO2007 Fed, perhaps the best version of Fed I’d seen. He simply ‘killed’ his opponents swiftly in style, not losing a single set (I checked, he spent just 12.5 hours on court then for the whole tournament!) and made the on fire Gonzo looked lost in the final that year. It’s from then that I truly appreciate how good Fed is/was during his peak. Fed could use his great serves and varieties to move this Djoko out of his comfort zone.
3) the USO2010 Rafa with great movement, FH and BH, defence and offence, plus a great serve would be able to battle it out with Djoko from the baseline imo.
I think an in the zone Cilic could get a set but he couldn’t be in the zone the whole match.
Roger Federer, the 3rd greatest of all time behind Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal.
Who would’ve thought? Just proves once again, it’s not over until the fat lady sings!
https://www.firstpost.com/sports/australian-open-2019-despite-loss-to-novak-djokovic-rafael-nadals-insatiable-hunger-to-improve-continues-to-inspire-5972401.html
Well said Joe Smith.
Thanks for the article Sanju.
I agree with most of the points. I also felt that Rafa did have his chances during the match to go for his shots, like hitting his FH DTL instead of going CC all the time. There were times where Djoko was way back behind the baseline but Rafa chose to wait for the ball to come back to him instead of rushing forward to put pressure on Djoko.
I feel lack of matches since USO2018 was a problem for him when facing Djoko. Rafa was that good a player that he could beat most players even when he’s a bit rusty but against a player of Djoko’s caliber, Rafa’s shortcomings would be exposed.
He overhit or mishit shots he used to make regularly; he felt rushed by Djoko because Rafa himself was a bit slow. He lacked confidence hence he’s not hitting his FHDTL shots.
I don’t think Rafa will play this way in future when he meets Djoko, it’ll be hard fought matches again regardless of surfaces; Rafa will be better than now whilst Djoko won’t be producing sublime tennis like this always, so normalcy will resume – Djoko has the advantage on HCs and Rafa on clay and grass is 50/50 imo after that 2018 match at Wimbledon.
Yeah, thank you for the article Sanju.
After reading it, I am pretty convinced that Rafa will most certainly win next six GSs.
And yes, it’s all about Rafa. If he plays like he wants, not another human being stands a chance against him.
Couldn’t be any clearer.
If Nadal continues to return and play from 2-3 meters behind the baseline, he will struggle against Novak in coming matches. But Novak can lose early, he can have his bad days also. So, Rafa needs to be patient.
French Open would not be easy for Rafa this time. Novak at his best can beat Rafa in RG finals, but again there are so many variables like how the draw pans out, Theim/Zverev factor.
But Rafa at his best > Djoko at his best on clay esp at RG.
Why won’t Rafa be able to play his best on clay, when without playing any warm up event, and without competing since USO last year, he’s still able to reach a HC slam final?
Djoko’s flat shots won’t be that threatening on clay, if not he won’t be losing so often to Rafa at RG. Rafa finishing his matches so quickly is a good sign, meaning he’s doing less damage to his body; that way, he’s able to conserve energy and prevent injury, and that’s important for his clay season where he has his usual heavy workload.
It’s rare that Rafa finishes at the AO and still is feeling relatively fresh physically; he’s normally either injured, or simply too tired after the AO.
Joe, Rafa’s newly acquired serve can be effective only when he’s feeling confident. Against Djoko, he not only was racing against the shot clock but also had to be wary of Djoko’s returns. Noticed that he kept looking up to the clock, it’s like he’s so afraid to go over the time limit.
Against his other opponents, he’s more confident as he knew they weren’t that great in their ROS. Djoko simply could return serves so well that he’s able to drag his opponents into baseline battles with him when they were not given much chances to move forward.
Imo, only Shapo and Medvedev, could make the move up to the net as both came with great serves. They each got a set from Djoko, and Medvedev did push Djoko hard, too bad he’s not a net rusher, so he stayed at the baseline to rally with Djoko all night long and lost. Nobody imo could beat Djoko from and at the baseline now.
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2019/01/novak-djokovic-rafae/79386/
Great write-up, Steve. Of course I agree. Novak did save his best for the last match vs an opponent he knows extremely well. As a Novak fan I do worry about him in earlier rounds vs a newer unknown player like Shapo or Medvedev. It’s more of an experiment with those new guys. Rafa is familiar and this is AO – Novak and AO go together well.
Also the way Rafa was serving and played so well, without dropping a set all the way to the final, had me on edge, doubting Novak. I know Novak can elevate his game vs Rafa but there’s doubt. Then Novak did it so well in the end. And it was a magnificent display in Melbourne. But can he do it at RG? That’s Rafa’s home GS. It’s not so easy there. We’ll see. I don’t bet against Rafa at RG.
One thing is for sure, Federer would’ve put up a bigger fight than Nadal did in that final.
Worst effort by Rafa in his tennis career given the circumstances and his form coming into that match.
He got stage fright because Djokovic diffuses his game on a hardcourt. He basically threw in the towel before the match started and didn’t even give himself a chance. At least play your game and try your best. If your opponent outplays you too good but to concede defeat psychologically due to a most likely outcome is really a blemish on his career in terms of his reputation of having superior mental fortitude to the other greats. Nadal’s immaturity in this department has been exposed on several occasions during his career.
Jim, isn’t it like Fed vs Rafa at FO2008? Or Djoko vs Murray at Wimbledon 2013 final? Or Murray vs Djoko AO2011 final?
If your opponent played lights out tennis, you probably had to say too good!
Yes, but that’s just because Rafa didn’t feel like playing.
If he was, Novak wouldn’t stand a chance in this final, no?
No need to be sarcastic; Rafa just didn’t have it in him to fight in the final. Notice that he’s slow in his movements compared to Djoko.
I would say none of Rafa’s six opponents before the final had the defensive skills like Djoko’s so Rafa could have his way with his aggressive play. And, with his success in his aggression, his opponents were busy defending that they had not the chances to test Rafa’s defences.
It took a player of Djoko’s caliber to test both Rafa’s offence and defence, and as the match unfolded, we all realised Rafa’s four months absence from competition really had an impact on him – he’s slower around the court when his defence was put to the test; his shot selections and executions when under pressure were questionable at times and full of errors.
Given more time for training and fine tuning of his game, I’m sure Rafa will regain his foot speed, his defensive skills and hone his aggressive skills even more and perhaps incorporate that permanently into his game.
We’ll wait and see, no need to be negative, I’m sure he’ll do better against Djoko next time; he may still lose on the HCs, but on clay and even grass, I know he’ll be competitive and have better success.
Tell me this, if it wasnt Djokovic at the other end of the court and some other player playing those shots, would Nadal lose in straight sets? Nadal played nothing like his previous matches. All we expected from him is that he would turn up and hit freely like he did in his prior matches, not turn up and play the complete opposite.
Nadal needs to play the underdog card against Djokovic on hardcourt and grass and stop playing like the guy that has the reputation lose.
He had no self-belief in that final and im hoping we never see that again from him for the rest of his career.
People need to stop sweeping it under the carpet, Nadal needs to learn a big lesson from that so it doesn’t happen again.
I’m sure Rafa is the first person who won’t want that to happen again!
We can talk all we want here, but only Rafa knows what really happened to him, why he played that way etc. I’m sure he and his team will go figure out what went wrong and how to improve on that, if they don’t want that to happen again.
I know what happened to him. He lost the match before it even started.
He was the prey and not the hunter. Rewind 10 years and Nadal would’ve eaten up that opportunity and thrown the kitchen sink at Djokovic.
Well Rafa is no longer that young, I do feel after numerous injuries, Rafa will not run after every ball the way he did ten years ago.
Rafa’s fighting spirit is still there, if not he won’t win matches like that USO match vs Thiem; or fought hard to beat Delpo at Wimbledon and narrowly lost a five setter to Djoko.
We’ll see, will Rafa solve the Djoko problem, or will he continue to ‘fear’ Djoko, time will tell.
PS. Your question about Rafa facing someone else instead of Djoko in the final – well as I mentioned earlier, unless that player had the ability, like Djoko, to expose the weakness in Rafa’s defence, Rafa would most likely beat his opponent with his aggressive game.
Actually there is some truth in what Jim is saying! It is this side of things which worries me most if I am being honest.
Also if I am being honest I don’t really know what to think about yesterday.
I didn’t see the match but reading posts from vr who I respect absolutely where he says rafa was a bag of nerves and that however well Nole was playing rafa was messing up neutral balls when he wasn’t under pressure and not even trying to hit his fhdtl which has been brilliant all tourney and is usually the indicator of how well he is feeling the ball makes me wonder what the hel l was going on with rafa mentally. Cheryl commented that he wouldn’t have beaten any player in the top 20 the way he played yesterday reinforcing the points Vr was making.
I wish vr would come back btw!!
Also, read the transcripts of Rafa’s presser to have a better idea why he played so badly and how he felt after the loss.
Rafa was still positive about his performance at this AO, and this loss didn’t affect him that much, unlike that Wimbledon loss.
Finally I watched the Rafole this morning. And I must admit how proud I am of how Nole is playing. He doesn’t seem as wound up and angry like he became in 2016. He appreciates playing tennis and playing Rafa. Rafa has made him work hard to be able to play this well and sustain the level. Younger guys have not reached that development and many just won’t because they can’t. We are indeed lucky to have Rafa, Novak, and Roger.
I hope there will be a few special ones coming along and have such lofty goals and the strength to fight for it. Tennis is blessed by these special athletes – both men and women.
Amy, I remember after Abu Dhabi, I mentioned that Rafa would not win the AO and reaching QF was the best he could do. Many here didn’t agree with me.
My reason was that it’s too soon to expect Rafa to win a big title, esp with Fed the defending champion and Djoko the no.1 player around (and Djoko was having all the momentum with him having reached so many finals and winning some).
Rafa had exceeded my expectation, reaching the final and playing so well to beat his opponents before the final without dropping a set, so much so that he made us believed and had the false hope that he would beat Djoko to win the title.
As it turned out, it’s really too soon for him to win a big title with Djoko there in the final. I don’t expect Rafa to do this bad the next time they meet, as I believe by then Rafa should already have time to hone his skills and improves his defence and his movements, back to his previous good level.
Yes lucky I remembered what you said already and you were right. I know some people will attack me for saying this but I actually wish now rafa hadn’t got to the final. If he had a great run and gone out in style in the semis that would have still have been a,great result after being out so long. Nole is his biggest rival and it doesn’t do him any good to have that performance stored in his memory.As sanju says rightly tennis is a mental sport!☺
If Fed could overcome the mental block he had against Rafa, why would Rafa not being able to overcome his against Djoko? After all, it’s not like Rafa was hopeless against Djoko, he’s 25-28 against Djoko, and had won their two recent clay court matches. Furthermore, Rafa is known as the warrior, his competitive nature and mental toughness would help him overcome the mental block he may have against Djoko. It may take some time, who knows?
Rafa is a positive person, so he and his team will keep looking for solutions. He may not beat Djoko on the HCs often but maybe once in a while, but he’s more than capable of beating Djoko on clay.
I agree with you, Lucky- there is no reason he can’t overcome it. We saw him beat Novak at 2012 RG after losing the previous 3 major Finals to him. I see no reason why he can’t turn it around again at this year’s RG. If Fed could beat Rafa at a major again after 9 1/2 years, then Rafa should be able to do it after 5 years. Doesn’t mean he will, but there is no doubt that he CAN!
Of course I believe he can beat Nole at RG lucky!! I don’t know why you make that inference! It’s really quite annoying that you do when I have been consistently so upbeat about rafa winning multiple slams this year! Far more upbeat than you!
PS nny will have to reply tomorrow, dead beat now!
Mira dear where are you? Are you ok? Big hug xxx
amy,
I don’t know what to think either. I did not fe that comfortable talking about my feelings with that troll rubbishgoat posting his hatespeak.
I have accepted the disappointment of once again watching Rafa not win the double career slam. But I do have questions. I also did not watch the match, but was reading the live blog and realized that Rafa was playing like crap.
He apparently played quite badly. I thinking now that he just was not ready to meet Novak. People said he was slow in his movement. It takes a lot of physical and mental strength to play Novak. Rafa did not have it at this time.
Good Morning, Nny.
I just read your post on that other thread and agree. No more politics on the tennis threads. And I’m sorry. We can support each other on the non-tennis forum here. I’ll check it more to to read and reply if you are there. It’s important to stick together in a very tough time. We have a lot of work ahead before we are out of this nightmare.
Nny i will reply later because I am a bit frantic today with other things. It’s ok I know what you were thinking and what you were or were not prepared to talk about!!☺
PS come back vr!!!!
Hey amy….Thank u very much for your concern amy!….Very rare people shown their interest in me…that’s why your concern deeply deeply appreciated amy!..
Well…i gotta admit,this is the most painful lost from Rafa i’ve ever feel…I mean,after the out of this world perfomance prior to the final…this is the 1st time i believe Rafa has a chance to beat him…and i let myself hoping…but yeah….it’s not Rafa’s fault…it’s mine…All this time,i knew the psychological adv that Novak has on Rafa…and i shouldn’t forgot about that….And i think if Rafa fight like usual,it will not be so bad…but,that total drubbing was hard to take…that’s all…
Mira,
I agree with you. But as I said to amy, I just did not feel comfortable posting my thoughts with that horrible troll on the site. I did think Rafa could do it, but I also worried that he was undercooked going into the final. He saved his body with no tough matches, but being challenged is what brings out the best in Rafa. It was a huge step up in class for Rafa to play Novak.
I had a tough time dealing with the Wimbledon loss. That one just killed me. This one bothers me, but in a different way. The lopsided nature of the match is concerning. The fact that Rafa played so poorly also worries me.
However, I am not about to write Rafa off for the clay season. No way do I think Novak is the favorite for RG! Not against the man who has 11 titles!
Mira, it’s not the psychological advantage; if Rafa was quicker in his movements and his ROS was up to par, do you think he won’t do better than what he had done in the final.
Why must his loss to Djoko always be because of his mental block against Djoko? Rafa had beaten Djoko twice on clay recently, and he lost narrowly to Djoko at Wimbledon. Why then would he have mental block against Djoko in the AO final?
When Rafa lost narrowly to Djoko at AO2012, Rafa was very positive, that he’s getting close to beating Djoko at a HC slam. The Wimbledon loss hurt, as it was a closely fought five setter and I believe Rafa knew the importance of that match, on hindsight how it affected his year end ranking but more importantly the likelihood of him beating Anderson in the final to win his third Wimbledon title after six/seven years of departing early there.
However, I doubt that had created a mental block in him when meeting Djoko in future; if anything, he ought to be positive because he was so close to beating Djoko even on grass.
Rafa explained in his presser why he did so poorly in the final, Djoko was too good and he was unable to defend against Djoko’s aggression as he wasn’t able to fight the way he used to.
There’s no need to feel too upset about this loss, as Rafa certainly will play better than this in future, against Djoko and against anyone else.
Okay Lucky….We’ll see…
Hi mira! I knew you would be upset and so am I although I didn’t watch it because regardless of the reasons rafa gave afterwards I just don’t think they adequately explain what happened. From reading comments by our brilliant vr and others. As Jim said, regardless of the condition rafa was in would he really have folded like that if another player was playing exactly the same way. Vr said he was mishitting neutral balls!
Honestly i can’t get that stupid loss at wimby out of my mind. That involved such bad luck!
Big hug darling!
What a performance from Nole, amazing! I think the biggest thing was Nadal had changed his game to be more aggressive, play closer to the base line. This worked great against most players through the whole tourney who aren’t great returners of serve.
But if you watch the match, Nole’s depth on return was brutal. Most returns were at Nadal’s feet at speed. He didn’t have time to react and that put him on the backfoot on every service game.
Also ofcourse Nole was playing lights out, smoking the back hand cross court. Even as a big Nole fan I was hoping for a closer tighter final but Novak was just way too good. And Nadal was a bit in shock I imagine of how tough it was for him to compete.
Should make for an interesting french open!
Novak was just too good, Nadal didn’t come close.
If thet meet in the French Open Rafa might not be able to defeat this Hot Novak.
Nole played lights out as Rafa helped him play that way. He just never but any pressure on Nole. Rafa forehand ( some regard as the greatest shot in tennis) sprayed errors all Over the place. So Nole never felt the pressure and went for his shots.
Nadal has to beat Nole on 3 set clay matches else Nole will beat him at the French finals too.
If Novak goes onto win the French open again, surpass him in GS tally blah, blah, blah, then fair enough so what, does that all of a sudden make Nadal a failure ?
Why would he be a “failure”?
Did anyone say Nadal is a failure?
Novak Djokovic is just better.
Please, please. Calm down. Have some faith in Rafa!
Rafa had done well to be in the final, exceeding my expectation. He’s not ready to win a slam yet because he had to meet Djoko in the final (imagine if it’s someone else that he met there, Rafa might even win it)!
After four months without competing he still managed to reach a HC slam final, and he comes out in one piece- no injury, no fatigue- that’s something to be thankful about for us his fans.
If he’s good enough to reach a HC slam final, then why would he do worse at a clay court slam? As long as he keeps training and competing and stays injury free, he will be the man to beat on clay.
I think this hand wringing about Rafa’s chances in clay, is really premature and quite unnecessary. Rafa is not going anywhere. When he is on his beloved clay, he is a force unto himself. People have written him off at times before when he was not as dominant on clay. But 11 RG titles do not lie. Neither do all his titles overall.
Rafa needs to get matches u set his belt and get stronger to reach his best form. This idea that Novak will now dominate him on clay is really not realistic.
I would not be foolish enough to write off Rafa for the clay season.
Rads needs to get matches under his belt! *
RAFA! Stupid autocorrect!
One more thing, if we the Rafa fans are so upset by how Rafa played in the final and lost so meekly, then look at his fellow big four:
As great as Fed is, his loss to Rafa at the FO2008 was even worse. Just remember, Fedal are great and so when they lost the final in that manner, it’s shocking. Fed and Rafa has lost only once in straight sets in slam finals, and Fed has played in 30 slam finals and Rafa 25.
Djoko has lost in straight sets twice – once in his first ever slam final, at USO2007 to Fed; and to Murray at Wimbledon 2013.
Murray has lost in straight sets a few times – USO2008 his first slam final; AO2010,2011,2016 finals.
Fed and Rafa were so good that they both reached the final at AO in 2017 after coming back from injury. What’s impressive about Rafa at the AO this year is that he’s able to reach a slam final even without playing for four months, and had surgery on his ankle so had not that much time to practice.
I, as a Rafan, would prefer he wins more titles but the longer he feels the drive to improve and beat Novak again the longer he’ll stay on tour, so there’s a positive side to everything. Of course, one can also argue that winning makes you want to go onwards as well and this is true but in sport, as with most things in life, we learn more from our setbacks than from our achievements.
So, let us look forward for more good things to come, yet again, for our great Rafa!
Its what some are alluding to though, to be honest, the commies, ex players, none Nadal fans will never give him credit for his achievements, he was lucky in this match, his opponent was unlucky in that match, opponent not at their best blah friggin blah, those that do give back handed compliments, its the way it is and always will be ….
Nny…Thank u for your understanding!…It’s so good to know that we feel the same way about this loss….
Yeah!…Wimbledon loss was very painful too…but at least i didn’t hope much in that match coz i already prepared myself for the outcome…i always knew if he were to meet with Novak,the chance of him winning were pretty slim esp if it’s on the surface other than clay…
And i have no doubt about his chance come clay season…insyaallah he will do well there…i wish Rafa will have the same confidence & self belief when they meet on grass & hc…but yeah..
About troll…just ignore them Nny…they loved it when they saw how riled we are when they ‘teased’ us a little bit…they posted the annoying comments just to provoke us Nny…and they maybe laughed heartily at our expense…just don’t give them the satisfaction anymore Nny…they will throw a bait..just don’t eat it okay?That’s the only way to deal with them…Let the dog barking,they will keep silence when they get tired…
Yes I agree with mira! Trolls feed on people responding to them, it gratifies them, makes them excited. It’s much the best thing just to ignore them and especially regarding politics! That’s why i almost never answer anything they write about politics. It’s just a waste of time and energy imo giving them the oxygen of publicity they thrive on.
I read an interesting article from a writer at Heavy Topspin, who wrote an article for The Economists, about Djoko and his backhand. (I do not know how to copy a link, so just provide the website/article link for those who are interested).
It mentioned about Djoko’s three losses to three youngsters last year and how they’re able to neutralise or at least make it less effective the Djoko CC BH. It’s interesting that it’s the youngsters who are giving Djoko more problems than the veterans. Both Shapo and Medvedev each won a set against Djoko, and Medvedev was the toughest opponent Djoko faced in this AO.
When the draw came out, I wrote that it would be interesting see how Djoko handled those two youngsters in R3 and R4, and said that Medvedev would be tricky for Djoko. True enough, Djoko needed 3 hours to beat him. What Medvedev lacked was the net rushing ability, had he moved to the net when Djoko was being pushed back behind the baseline, he might win the point.
Nadal OTOH, couldn’t gain any advantage going CC to Djoko’s BH with his own FH, and time and again, Rafa was still hitting CC to Djoko’s BH! What Rafa needs to do (if he insists on going CC to Djoko’s BH) is to flatten his own FH and hit it with more depth. Also, adds in a good BHDTL shot to his tool box so that at any time, he could change direction from CC to DTL from both wings.
Rafa has a good CC BH, a flat one and that’s good enough to counter Djoko’s FH; he needs a flat FH to counter Djoko’s DHBH CC, on non clay surfaces esp on the HCs which is Djoko’s fave surface.
https://www.economist.com/game-theory/2019/01/29/novak-djokovic-wins-again-but-young-rivals-expose-his-weakness
But those guys met up with a Novak who was not playing great tennis in the early rounds. That gave them a chance to get a set off him. We have seen this movie before many times – Novak is slow starting in slams. But he saves his best for the semis and finals. Rafa was facing a much different Novak in that final.
Actually Rafa also will raise his level of play when he gets to the crucial stage of slams. But in this case he simply was not battle tested and ready and able to do it. He had more than enough to beat the young guys.
I do realize that Rafa was not where he needed to be to face a very confident and on fire Novak. Being off for months does exact a price. It always seems to be something before the AO every year. It is a good result to get to the final of this tournament, but I am still u settled by just how poorly Rafa played, how non-competitive the match was. I am hopeful that more tournaments played and more match wins will get Rafa truly fit and in his best form for the clay season.
Hi nny! I agree with what you say and I have just written similar to mira. Whatever rafa says as explication it doesn’t add up in its parts to the whole does it? Ie the abject nature of the loss.
Rafa is still the man to beat at RG though! It’s quite absurd when he has 11 titles for people to make him into the underdog!
I am still unsettled. *
Don’t have to worry, Rafa won’t play like this from now on! It’s just one match and so many Rafa fans get worried and unsettled.
I was the one who didn’t expect Rafa to go beyond QF at the AO, and was pleasantly surprised by his good results in reaching the final. We were overly optimistic about Rafa’s chances in the final, but forgot that against an elite player Djoko, who was with the winning momentum since mid of last season, Rafa simply couldn’t bring his best game to provide a good fight when he’s lacking in match play. It’s obvious that without matches, his ROS suffered, his movements too.
Djoko got beaten in finals at Paris Masters and WTF, those were important tournaments. The youngsters shown there’s a way to beat Djoko, even on Djoko’s fave surface.
Rafa has to find a way to beat Djoko on the HCs. I hope Rafa and his team study those matches and figure out a way for Rafa to beat Djoko on the HCs. It’s not impossible though it may be very tough to do.
Yeah…Very true what u r saying Lucky!…I wonder why Rafa had such a tough job to defeat Nole on hc…Is it bcoz of his knees can’t stand the hard cement?Or his style just won’t cut it on hc?I read that his heavy top spin will land a little bit higher on court,so it’s easy for Nole to counter it with his flat fh or his dangerous bh…Is it true Lucky?
If so, do u think what strategy Moya will come up with in order to face Nole The Destroyer?And i think he better find it fast coz i’m pretty sure they will meet again at IW..or Miami(if Rafa choose to play)..
Mira, like I said, Rafa has to hit his FH CC flatter and with depth. He has to use his FHDTL more often and add in a BHDTL shot so that he can go CC or DTL from both wings.
He’s so used to serving out wide with his lefty serve that it becomes so predictable. Why not add in more serve down the T, to keep his opponent guessing. When Rafa was younger, he used to serve down the T very often when his back was against the wall and needed his serve to bail him out of troubles. He also needs to beef up his second serve, it has gotten worse now compared to 2017 when his second serve was incredibly good.
We had discussed this before, that when he could rely on his good second serve, he was less pressurized serving his first serves; with his great first serve now, he should worry less when he has a good second serve to back it up.
He kept looking at the shot clock when he’s serving, it’s like he’s so worried that he would go over the time limit, got penalised with his first serve taken away, and had to serve a second serve which wasn’t that reliable these days.
I feel his ROS needs improvement, he’s returning from so far out wide at his deuce court, that left his ad court wide opened. Unless he hits his CC return well from there, his opponent may just rush to the net after serving to intercept Rafa’s CC return and hits it to the open court and Rafa will have a hard time running to cover that position. Why not return the serve DTL around the net post for a change, and have the ball landing at his righty opponent’s BH corner instead? Keep his opponent guessing!
He should also move forward after returning serve ( like what Murray used to do) so that 1) he could take away his opponent’s reaction time, 2) he need not cover too much court when he moves forward cutting off some wide angles.
I think if he can vary his court position when returning serves, that may make Djoko guess a little more when serving, and so could affect Djoko’s precision a little bit imo.
Mira, see my post at 3.31pm above, the last two paragraphs.
In addition, he has to serve with varieties to keep Djoko guessing – like serve more down the T instead of going out wide so often. He has a good enough body serve, has to improve his second serve to maybe his 2017 level, so that he need not feel pressurized on his first serve because he knows he can rely on his second.
His ROS needs improvement imo; add in a return DTL option when returning from so far out wide at his deuce court, make his opponent guess where his return is going. He should also learn to move forward to the baseline or moves into the court immediately after returning serve, to cut off the angles so that he need not run so much to cover the court behind the baseline. By moving forward, he’s taking away reaction time of his opponent, thus rushing opponent into errors (just like Fed’s SABR effect).
Rafa has to implement changes step by step, I doubt he could change so many things at the same time. I feel that’s the problem with him being so successful on clay, that he tends to play his clay court style on other surfaces and has to make changes when playing on other surfaces.
Fed and Djoko OTOH, plays a style that suits the HCs so they’re so comfortable playing on them and need not make any or that much changes to their game.
Very nice analysis, but its strange that Rafa got this drubbing after he had studied new tactics with Moya. Theres only so many new tactics you can try , and especially be able to execute them under big match conditions. It gets even harder to change as he gets older .
There cant be many secrets left about how they play each other
It’s a WIP; I didn’t see Rafa flattening his FH when playing on the HC at AO. There wasn’t any changes to his ROS and court positioning when returning serves.
Rafa had not that much time to hone his skills as he could only practice during Dec, and he had to be careful not to injure himself during training too (esp his abdominal muscles which gave him problems that he had to withdraw from the Paris Masters).
We’ll see how much changes he would make during Feb now the AO is over. Perhaps we’ll see more changes during Acapulco and IW.
It’s not about secrets; it’s about match ups. If Rafa wants to beat Djoko on the HCs, he needs a flat penetrating FH, a BHDTL shot, a more varied serve and returns.
As long as he’s able to push Djoko back behind the baseline with a flat penetrating CC FH, he’ll have his chances to either move forward to the net, or hit to the open court. A DTL BH would also give him more options. In their USO2010 final, Rafa hit some great BHDTL, and even BHDTL slices!
Rafa has these in his arsenal, it’s just that he’s not able to get them firing on all cylinders at the same time. Rafa can hit a flatter FH when he’s practicing, it’s just that he’s not used to hit it flat during matches, except that I/O CCFH where he hits from his BH corner.
When Djoko is playing like that, not even Fed or Murray in an AO SF and F could beat him! Eg. AO2016. Both of them weren’t coming back from four months of injury break, yet they still lost miserably.
Rafa only managed three games when he lost 6-1, 6-2 to Djoko in the Doha final of 2016, and though Rafa back then weren’t exactly in top form, he wasn’t coming back from injury break.
Djoko on his day, could annihilate anyone on the HCs.
I just love the fact that you’re calling Novak: “Djoko”. It really reveals more way about you than you think.
God forbid if you dignified yourself to call him like everyone else does. This way it’s more convenient to show some subtle disdain…
If you already like to play around shortening last names, why don’t you try calling Rafa: “Nad”? Maybe?
Djoko, short form for Djokovic; Fed short form for Federer. Nadal and Murray, not too Long so need not shorten them. I call Davydenko, one of my fave player, Davy.
I don’t call them by their first name, unless it’s Nadal whom I call him Rafa. For Tsitsipas, I wanted to type just Tsit but my mobile phone spells out the full surname for me; must be that it captured the name the first time I typed, so it came out once I start typing the first few letters.
Don’t try to be clever! I’ve explained myself. See?
Sure you have.
Yeah, just try repeating that a couple of more times, it will almost sound true.
At least to you, that is.
You’re laughable! Who are you to judge? You don’t even know me, don’t act smart! You’re just so full of yourself! Go do something else, don’t bother me.
I’m preparing for festive celebration, in holiday mood now!
Ok Luc, Happy New Year, go and have a blast celebrating!
See you after RG 😉
Hey amy!…hope u have a good day so far amy!…
Ermmm…if u still can’t get the stupid loss at Wimby out of your mind….then i can’t get this stupid loss at d@$! AO from my mind!…Urgh!!…very stupid!!!..The stupidest of them all!!
Mira, like I said, Rafa has to hit his FH CC flatter and with depth. He has to use his FHDTL more often and add in a BHDTL shot so that he can go CC or DTL from both wings.
He’s so used to serving out wide with his lefty serve that it becomes so predictable. Why not add in more serve down the T, to keep his opponent guessing. When Rafa was younger, he used to serve down the T very often when his back was against the wall and needed his serve to bail him out of troubles. He also needs to beef up his second serve, it has gotten worse now compared to 2017 when his second serve was incredibly good.
We had discussed this before, that when he could rely on his good second serve, he was less pressurized serving his first serves; with his great first serve now, he should worry less when he has a good second serve to back it up.
He kept looking at the shot clock when he’s serving, it’s like he’s so worried that he would go over the time limit, got penalised with his first serve taken away, and had to serve a second serve which wasn’t that reliable these days.
I feel his ROS needs improvement, he’s returning from so far out wide at his deuce court, that left his ad court wide opened. Unless he hits his CC return well from there, his opponent may just rush to the net after serving to intercept Rafa’s CC return and hits it to the open court and Rafa will have a hard time running to cover that position. Why not return the serve DTL around the net post for a change, and have the ball landing at his righty opponent’s BH corner instead? Keep his opponent guessing!
He should also move forward after returning serve ( like what Murray used to do) so that 1) he could take away his opponent’s reaction time, 2) he need not cover too much court when he moves forward cutting off some wide angles.
I think if he can vary his court position when returning serves, that may make Djoko guess a little more when serving, and so could affect Djoko’s precision a little bit imo.
Mira, like I said, Rafa has to hit his FH CC flatter and with depth. He has to use his FHDTL more often and add in a BHDTL shot so that he can go CC or DTL from both wings.
He’s so used to serving out wide with his lefty serve that it becomes so predictable. Why not add in more serve down the T, to keep his opponent guessing. When Rafa was younger, he used to serve down the T very often when his back was against the wall and needed his serve to bail him out of troubles. He also needs to beef up his second serve, it has gotten worse now compared to 2017 when his second serve was incredibly good.
We had discussed this before, that when he could rely on his good second serve, he was less pressurized serving his first serves; with his great first serve now, he should worry less when he has a good second serve to back it up.
He kept looking at the shot clock when he’s serving, it’s like he’s so worried that he would go over the time limit, got penalised with his first serve taken away, and had to serve a second serve which wasn’t that reliable these days.
I feel his ROS needs improvement, he’s returning from so far out wide at his deuce court, that left his ad court wide opened. Unless he hits his CC return well from there, his opponent may just rush to the net after serving to intercept Rafa’s CC return and hits it to the open court and Rafa will have a hard time running to cover that position. Why not return the serve DTL around the net post for a change, and have the ball landing at his righty opponent’s BH corner instead? Keep his opponent guessing!
He should also move forward after returning serve ( like what Murray used to do) so that 1) he could take away his opponent’s reaction time, 2) he need not cover too much court when he moves forward cutting off some wide angles.
I think if he can vary his court position when returning serves, that may make Djoko guess a little more when serving, and so could affect Djoko’s precision a little bit imo.
True that Rafa was coming back from injury and getting to the AO final surprised all, including himself I think but I don’t quite buy this theory of not having enough matches under his belt. He had played 6 brilliant HC matches, how many do you need to be battle-hardened? Besides, he said it himself that at this stage of his career he needs more free points hence shorter matches, if he wants to go on without destroying his body any further…
But I guess he can’t simply say the truth: he wasn’t psychologically ready for Nole.. He needs a few matches against him to test his level. Well, now he knows just how much he needs to improve, mainly psychologically because in reality that’s the biggest edge between them.
Shirelling…What u say is exactly what i have in mind!…That’s why i have a hard time to accept this loss bcoz it really doesn’t make sense to me…he played the best tennis i’ve seen from him in Tsitsi’s match…and then crumbled helplessly against Novak 2 days later!
He revert back to his ol self by playing 5,6 meters behind the baseline…FH CC all the time…as far as i know that’s a symptom of lack of confidence that he suffered in 2015 season…that means 1 thing…Nerves & anxiety..I think the main reason is the ‘between the ears’ thingy…not as much as physical…
Despite all the discussion about how/what Rafa needs to change to beat Djokovic, I suspect Ricky was correct in his original preview: If Nadal can’t beat Djokovic under these conditions, playing at the extremely high level he was before the final, he’s probably not going to beat him again on HC. The score shows just how much better Novak is, and his level needs to drop substantially before he is going to be close to losing to Nadal on this surface.
Come on, why would Rafa suddenly crumble against Djoko?
People are reading too much into this loss! I think they want to believe that the Wimbledon loss affected Rafa psychologically and so now once he meets Djoko in an important match, he crumbled! Is that what the Rafa fans here want to believe? Is Rafa such a coward, that they think he’s hopeless against Djoko because he’s so scared of Djoko?
Rafa is just simply not ready to meet this Djoko, because Rafa is not battle ready yet; beating Tsitsipas doesn’t equate to beating Djoko, esp in a slam final. Djoko is several levels ahead of Tsitisipas where experience and skills are concerned when playing in a slam. (I admit, I did underestimate Djoko after seeing how Medvedev gave him all sorts of problems and so became over optimistic about Rafa’s chances in the final.)
I can see that Rafa was slow in his movement during the final, his shot selection and execution questionable, his ROS not up to the mark, and his serve became less potent in the final. Rafa had not met anyone who’s so great in his defence prior to meeting Djoko in the final; as said earlier, Djoko exposed Rafa’s shortcomings. Once Rafa couldn’t execute his aggressive tennis, he would coil back into his defensive mode as that’s his default style of play ever since his success on clay. He’s a step slower in anything hence the beatdown.
Rafa always have problems against Djoko on the HCs, he has not won a set against Djoko on the HCs after beating him at USO2013 and that’s five years ago! Heck, even Fed or Delpo couldn’t beat Djoko on the HCs when they’re not even coming back from injury, and they had been playing well to meet Djoko in the SF or final, they still failed.
Djoko tends to play his best in the later stages of slams, Rafa simply had no answer in the final, just like Fed or Murray or Delpo, when they faced Djoko.
Whether Rafa will ever beat Djoko again on the HCs, we gonna see. It depends on what the Rafa camp could do, to stop this Djoko!
Lucky….i didn’t say Rafa is a coward…it’s just i feel that he’s lacking a self belief in that final that he can beat Novak on hc…sure Rafa scored a win the last 2 time they met…but that on clay…they haven’t met on hc for ages…maybe a case of respect too much for Nole too considering he’s the 6 time champ there…
Why he didn’t crumbled like this against Fed in 2017?He also just came back from a long lay off…
Mira, that’s because he didn’t go for four months without matches (he stopped after Shanghai in 2016 if I’m not wrong); also he won at Abu Dhabi exho, played a few matches at Brisbane, and was tested early by Sasha and Dimi.
Fed’s defence wasn’t as great as Djoko’s, and in the Fedal rivalry, Fed was the aggressor and Rafa the counterpuncher. By the final, Rafa’s defensive skills was already well in place hence a five setter.
In the Rafa/Djoko rivalry, whoever is the aggressor would most likely win the encounter. Djoko started off being very aggressive, and his ROS was incredible, that put lots of pressure on Rafa’s service games.
There’s no reason why Rafa won’t fight for everything, unless he’s not able to do so. It’s not different from his AO2008 SF vs Tsonga, or AO2007 QF vs Gonzo; in both matches, he appeared too slow to defend, as his opponents were simply quicker in their offences.
‘In the Rafa/Djoko rivalry,whoever is the aggressor would most likely win the encounter.Djoko started off very aggressive,his ROS was incredible that put lots of Rafa’s service games’….
Yeah!…Agree with that assessment Lucky!…If they were to meet again at IW,i hope Rafa will be ready than his display at AO…
Let’s see how Rafa will respond to that painful defeat…Vamos Rafa!!
Mira, we’ll see. Rafa was positive about this AO, or are we suspecting he’s putting up a false front? Judging from past experiences, I doubt so. Rafa is honest with his feelings, he’s upset about his loss at AO2014 and it showed. He wasn’t in 2012 and then be beat Djoko at the FO.
bald army is still in ruins haha.
“….i didn’t say Rafa is a coward…”
but he is. he shat his pants on Sunday. djokovic smelled blood like an apex predator.
Why hasn’t this been moderated?! It’s outrageous it’s still here and not deleted. No-one should have to come to a tennis site and read this. And that is nothing to do with it being aimed at Rafa.. I would say the same regardless of who it is aimed at. It’s infantile offensive garbage and describes the character of the poster perfectly.
Some posters are so classy with their choice of words lol ….
Yeah completely agree with these posts, i scratched my head watching that final on Sunday, you were all right about the way Rafa played, he went back to his old way of playing really passive, not going for his shots, everything went straight back to Novak, sad really the title was there for the taking, he played awesome all fortnight, he was the better player of the too all fortnight, it wasnt such much the loss, it was the way he lost which doesnt make sense, Novak didnt even have to even play lights out to win the match ….
Djoko started the match serving very well and Rafa couldn’t even get his racket on his serves. When it’s Rafa’s turn to serve, Djoko seemed to get every ball back, that’s the difference.
Rafa wasn’t able to play his aggressive game because his serve was returned with interest; none of Rafa’s previous six opponents had such ROS ability.
Djoko did play very well, starting with his SF vs Pouille, and Pouille only managed four games. Both Pouille and Rafa weren’t able to hit with depth, esp when hitting to Djoko’s BH. Djoko seemed able to get to every ball and was hitting with depth himself, forcing Rafa to constantly be on the back foot.
I think Rafa ran out of ideas out there, and his game was consistently under assault by Djoko. I think he’s confused, to press forward and continued with his aggression, or went back to the default game that he so often played with success? He chose the latter but by then Djoko was already having the upper hand and he’s not going to let loose to allow Rafa back into the match.
Djoko did play exceptionally well regardless of whether Rafa hit right back to him or not. His serve was unbelievable, so was his ROS.
All I can say is that Rafa was not ready to meet this Djoko; against someone else in the final, perhaps Rafa could win with his aggression, but against Djoko, his game wasn’t good enough. Even when he finally had a BP in the third set, he hit his next shot into the net, to me he didn’t have the belief by then, that he could win the match, after seeing how Djoko played.
‘I think Rafa ran out of ideas out there, and his game was consistently under assault by Djoko. I think he’s confused, to press forward and continued with his aggression,’
Haaa!!..That’s what i agree Lucky!…It was like he had a brain freeze,don’t know what to do,don’t have a plan B either…Like Mats Wilander said,he expect Rafa to come up with his emergency plan after got ambushed by Novak, like play risky tennis like he did against Stan in 2014 that secured him the 3rd sets…
I’m also a little bit surprised (& i’m sure many other’s too)that the player as calibre as Rafa don’t have a back up plan to save him from that situation…he’s in the final after all…but i also agree with Mats that Nole won’t let Rafa ‘breathe’ that day…
Really really hope that Rafa will learned this lesson..coz i’m sure they will meet again…But Nole,full credit to him played the best tennis i’ve ever seen from him so far…If only Rafa won’t brain freeze like that..i’m pretty sure too we already witnessed another 2012 2.0…shorter & aggresive version from both sides…urgh!!…i cannot imagine how amazing & awesome that match would be!…what a miss!!…Hokay!move on to IW!!…Vamos Rafa!!
I totally agree. I am a huge huge Nadal fan and it is impossible to be unsettled over this performance. I woke up 3.30 am and couldnt sleep again. Couldnt take off the thought off my mind that Nadal could have been 18 and then 19 at the FO.. Last two chances .. Wimbldeon was a sorry miss.. He did get unlucky but I am sure even with Djokovic not at his best yet, He didnt capitalise on the breakpoints because he wasnt as confident.
And this AO, he was playing wonderfully well.. His forehand was as good as ever. HIs backhand was deep and quick. He was at his best enough to beat Djokovic like I wouldnt have been surprised if he did in straight sets.
I cant pin anything else other than bigtime nerves. I used to think all Nadal needs to win is the first set with Novak but now I think oh well atleast be strong enough to win your first service game
I always thought if Nadals groundstrokes land past the service line thats good enough to beat Djokovic. but it gets shorter and shorter when Djokovic punches and punches and kills.
Nadals game plan to beat Djokovic is fairly simple to me.. Ok he will never serve like 2013 again where he did a 135 but come on vary it a lil with 120 .. wide serves on deuce and T on the ads..
So yeah better serve, his down the line forehand, something he was tuning all tournament happened rarely on this one.. so yeah that DTLF should get a weaker Djokovic forehand or atleast neutral. and then play deep enough not just over the service line, even a lil closer to the baseline because its Novak on the other and oh well please please return flat or topspin instead of slice
Serve ,DTLF and play deep.. three point strategy and four returns. But I am no expert and am its no big deal for a Moya or Nadal himself to know.
So whats the difference. Nerves and execution.. His game just falls apart.. everything goes weak.. his forehand. HIs dtlf comes to the middle of the court.. its crazy how shaky and the many number of UFE he makes.
I adore Nadal and I hope he realizes his only way to get back on this dynamic is to find a way to beat him.. Or as much as I dislike or lets say not like Djokovic as much.. there is nothing left other than to admit and accept he is defintely better than Nadal and Federer at his point. He has a boxing mindset and wont stop anything short of giving the final blow and more easy if they dont fight back.
Its funny how we Nadal fans may have to hope Oh Novak doenst win more instead of being confident of our own guys to win more.. Oh and me Just Nadal.. I dont want Fed to 21 :))
Good luck Nadal Fans and maybe we got to get some positive energy to our boy.. and hope he turns it around and fair enough I think the best scenario would be all 3 are at 20.
Great post, PK!
I needed time to digest this loss!!I deal with probably 80% of the population cheering for Novak and I have no problem with it. They deserve to celebrate this flawless performance of their favorite guy. To those teasing me or trying to drive the conversation on the match my response is short: pure class!
However, I do have conversations with myself about Rafa’s huge underperformance. While I do agree that small portion of thiss loss is due to lack of competitive matches and Rafa hardly being tested at this AO but one doesn’t have to be a tennis expert to recognize that Rafa’s performance until the finals was almost flawless!
Rafa was terrified in the finals. He was hardly playing any of his game from the very get go. He has mental blockade, he even failed to show his fighting spirit!
Rafa was not ready for this Nole! However, unless Rafa changes his mindset and starts believing in himself when facing Novak, we will be witnessing more of these beat downs. Novak smelled blood and was feeding himself with Rafa’s fear! Rafa must change it! His confidence simply evaporates when he meets Novak and he and his team must resolve this issue fast enough otherwise RG may become another disappointing event for already shaken confidence of the King of Clay! I hope Rafa doesn’t justify his poor play with lack of match play. He needs to find the way to fight his own demons…
Thanks Natashao. Lucky seems to have better hopes for Nadal. I dont think its easy at IW or Miami ( another unlucky ground for Rafa) but I would be happy enough if Nadal wins at FO even if he loses one or two on the prior ones.. At this point its all about slams and Rafa needs to get to 18. I really did hope it wasnt entirely impossible if Nadal won AO and with that confidence the FO,he could have actually got to maybe even at Wimby and the USO.. But thats just me being a crazy fan wanting Rafa to have it all. 🙂
Yeah, he had brain freeze, probably due to lack of confidence in his own game, as he’s confused whether to be aggressive or to play his old game.
He did have a plan B, ie to play his old game, but after four months break, his old game wasn’t up to the mark. After all, his aggressive game is a new addition, he has yet to truly incorporate that smoothly into his old game. It’s not like he’s not going to play his more defensive game at all, it’s just adding in new elements, ie aggression; he still need time to make the adjustment. Just give him time!
Lucky….I think Rafa should consider to elevate his plan B altogether…add a spice to it to be more efficient,effective & innovative…coz i think his ol games is sucks!…not suitable & very dangerous to his physical too….
Btw Lucky….Thank u very much for your inputs in our discussion yesterday & today….i feel muuuucchhhh better now than a few days ago…i feel that i could kill someone from the sheer frustrations & stuff..hahaha….(joking of coz!)
Oh hey!…Am i right in assuming that you’re going to celebrate Chinese New Year next week Lucky?
Yes, Im Singaporean Chinese so I’ll celebrate CNY.
Oh!…in that case,i wish u a Happy Chinese New Year Lucky!…Hope u will enjoy your big moment with your family ..Makan besar,Chap Goh Mei & all…
Thanks Mira!
You’re welcome Lucky!…👍👌✌
Why wont my comment go through after submit ?
it was too long so i had to approve
I thought so. Thanks Ricky. I have been following Nadals posts on here for a good while but am new to post. Wanted to interact and share my thoughts with some of the wonderful fans on here. I guess you have one more response of mine to approve. 🙂
I am a huge huge Nadal fan and it is impossible to be unsettled over this performance. I woke up 3.30 am and couldnt sleep again. Couldnt take off the thought off my mind that Nadal could have been 18 and then 19 at the FO.. Last two chances .. Wimbldeon was a sorry miss.. He did get unlucky but I am sure even with Djokovic not at his best yet, He didnt capitalise on the breakpoints because he wasnt as confident.
And this AO, he was playing wonderfully well.. His forehand was as good as ever. HIs backhand was deep and quick. He was at his best enough to beat Djokovic like I wouldnt have been surprised if he did in straight sets.
I cant pin anything else other than bigtime nerves. I used to think all Nadal needs to win is the first set with Novak but now I think oh well atleast be strong enough to win your first service game
I always thought if Nadals groundstrokes land past the service line thats good enough to beat Djokovic. but it gets shorter and shorter when Djokovic punches and punches and kills.
Nadals game plan to beat Djokovic is fairly simple to me.. Ok he will never serve like 2013 again where he did a 135 but come on vary it a lil with 120 .. wide serves on deuce and T on the ads..
So yeah better serve, his down the line forehand, something he was tuning all tournament happened rarely on this one.. so yeah that DTLF should get a weaker Djokovic forehand or atleast neutral. and then play deep enough not just over the service line, even a lil closer to the baseline because its Novak on the other and oh well please please return flat or topspin instead of slice
Serve ,DTLF and play deep.. three point strategy and four returns. But I am no expert and am its no big deal for a Moya or Nadal himself to know.
So whats the difference. Nerves and execution.. His game just falls apart.. everything goes weak.. his forehand. HIs dtlf comes to the middle of the court.. its crazy how shaky and the many number of UFE he makes.
I adore Nadal and I hope he realizes his only way to get back on this dynamic is to find a way to beat him.. Or as much as I dislike or lets say not like Djokovic as much.. there is nothing left other than to admit and accept he is defintely better than Nadal and Federer at his point. He has a boxing mindset and wont stop anything short of giving the final blow and more easy if they dont fight back.
Its funny how we Nadal fans may have to hope Oh Novak doenst win more instead of being confident of our own guys to win more.. Oh and me Just Nadal.. I dont want Fed to 21.
Good luck Nadal Fans and maybe we got to get some positive energy to our boy.. and hope he turns it around and fair enough I think the best scenario would be all 3 are at 20.
Not to worry, Rafa and his team are always working to improve his game. He may have past his heydays but he’s still motivated to carry on and has the belief that he’s still capable of winning important titles.
He’s already an ATG, a legend and one of the greatest, if not the greatest, on clay. I doubt his contemporaries are going to surpass him on clay.
Djoko may be chasing Fed’s records and he’s getting closer, one more HC slam, four more Wimbledon, and one more WTF, possible for him to achieve that, but he’s not going to catch up with Rafa’s FO titles.
Rafa may not end his career better than Fed’s or Djoko’s, so be it. We just enjoy what he brings to the court each time he plays, win or lose (sometimes heartaches too, admittedly).
My biggest problem is Nadal has the game much better than his consecutive losses to Djokovic suggests. I noticed how in 2011 Novak started calling him his rival instead of saying something like looking up to him and its that mindset that got him ahead, the belief that he was as good and equal to them and not that they are better like the rest of the field always brought it up. I am sure in his mind he believes and knows he is better than them .. It shows.. he just said he didnt want that arrogance to come back at him later.
Look at how they speak and feel. Djokovic says “oh this is where I want to be. To face him in the biggest stages” ( In other words. give me Rafa I will rip him apart)
Whereas Nadal keeps saying “Oh I prefer an easier opponent.” and right now he says even his best could not have beat him. Now that is crazy to me. Rafa is better than that.
You would want to beat the best to take your titles.. Not hope some easier opponent takes him out earlier. I see why Nadal fans would be desperate to think like that. For all I say , I sure have myself. But thats not going to help Nadal get any better.
Come on, that’s Rafa’s nature, that is, he want to be humble and not arrogant, he’s brought up that way. They are of different personalities, different character.
Not everyone has to behave the same way. If you want to support Rafa and be his fan, you have to accept him the way he is. He doesn’t need to change to please us.
Anyway, humble or arrogant, Rafa comes with a competitive spirit, and whether it’s an easy or a difficult opponent, he’ll show respect to his opponent and goes out there to fight for a win, sometimes he’s successful but sometimes he’s not.
We sometimes feel that he’s overly respectful, so much so that it affects his confidence, but that’s just the way he is.
Appreciate your response. Yes I agree.. His humility is what makes him loveable so much for all of us Nadal fans. I dont need to him to be arrogant. Its in his wonderful nature not to.. But look at him since 2011. Novaks arrogance got to his head and it shows. I just hope his respect or humility doesnt show in his approach on the court He is still oppressive enough to demolish.. (in his own words.. destroy ) some one like Tsitsipas on court. Having a killer instinct or the knockout punch does not take away his humility… I just hope someday soon enough he brings that blow on Novak. He so deserved the double career slam and its been slipping away and its frustrating. I still think his mental edge failed him in 2017 and even worse this time around. Well thats just my endless frustration and worry that he may never get to his second AO crown.. Sorry!
Come on lucky… Do you believe Djoko can win 4 more Wimbledons? I mean nothing is impossible. But 4 more? 2 max. I don’t see Djoko achieving 20 slams, and that has nothing to do with the fact I’m Fed fan. 5 is a lot. He will not surpass Nadal either. He will equal his total at best…
Eugene, it may be tough for Djoko (to win four more Wimbledon) but it’s not impossible.
And, looking at the way he’s playing now, he may sweep up five or six more slams within these two years, it’s not impossible, and that’s assuming Rafa holds on to his FO crown and so gets to 19 slams.
I think Rafa may get to 20 slams like Fed, and Djoko may do better than both by having say 22 slams. Djoko can dominate at AO and Wimbledon, and now that they’ve built a roof at AA arena at the USO, making it less windy inside the arena, Djoko may win there more often (Djoko not so good with windy conditions, relatively speaking).
Appreciate your response. Yes I agree.. His humility is what makes him loveable so much for all of us Nadal fans. I dont need to him to be arrogant. Its in his wonderful nature not to.. But look at him since 2011. Novaks arrogance got to his head and it shows.
I just hope his respect or humility doesnt show in his approach on the court He is still oppressive enough to demolish.. (in his own words.. destroy ) some one like Tsitsipas on court. Having a killer instinct or the knockout punch does not take away his humility…
I just hope someday soon enough he brings that blow on Novak. He so deserved the double career slam and its been slipping away and its frustrating. I still think his mental edge failed him in 2017 and even worse this time around. Well thats just my endless frustration and worry that he may never get to his second AO crown.. Sorry!
Hi PK, Rafa is respectful of his opponents, and towards his fellow big four, especially. Yes, I think after his seven losses to Djoko in 2011, it did affect him mentally but at the clay season in 2012, he did overcome Djoko at MC, Rome and then RG. I believe at that time, he had overcome the demon in his head, and so he continued to beat Djoko in 2013 at RG, Montreal and New York.
I feel it’s after his numerous injuries in 2014 resulting in him losing confidence in his own body, that he went into a mini slump and not only losing to Djoko many times but also losing to many other players.
I think his recent two wins over Djoko on clay did help him; I don’t think his loss in the Wimbledon SF was due to his mental block against Djoko, it’s more about him not been able to serve as well as his 2017, and so he’s not able to rely on clutch serving even when he had SP and instead ended up losing the set. I blame it on his injury during AO last year, for its after his injury comeback that his serve really suffered.
I truly don’t feel that this AO loss would affect Rafa much, because when Djoko was playing that way, even a fit and healthy Fed or Murray won’t be able to beat him (AO2016 for example). I feel only the AO2014 Stan has a chance ( or a younger Rafa of AO2009!).
I read an interview given by uncle Tony in which he mentions that Rafa should have lengthened the points during his match against Novak… this is contrary to what Moyá is trying to do with Rafa…..
So wrong strategy by the Rafa team? Interesting.
Perhaps Toni knows Rafa better, that Rafa might be able to win more points chasing after balls, engaging in rallies and then waiting for his chances to attack. Perhaps, that may be true because that’s what Rafa does best all along.
I remember in 2017 when Rafa lost to Fed, some of us also felt that Rafa should stay as the counterpuncher and not trying to be aggressive when playing against Fed. By counterpunching and extending the points, he might force errors out of Fed. He’s not going to be more attacking a player than Fed!
I dont think Rafa is going the wrong direction in the long run, he just needs to let this new aggression element blends in with his existing game, and getting the balance right between being aggressive and at the same time, not sacrificing his defence.
It is hard to believe that any other strategy would have brought a win for Rafa in this match.
Not about a win, but about a fight.
Guess my Nadal worry was too long for a successful submit 🙂
Ill put it on this thread, Rafa and Xisca have announced their engagement, they got engaged last May but kept it private, they are planning an Autumn wedding this year, congratulations to the beautiful pair 🙂
Hey!….maybe with this marriage Rafa finally will get his double career slams…or WTF…or Miami…or finally defeat Nole with flourish on hc or grass or add 3 or 4 slams more & surpass Fed’s 20??(hehehe Who knows!)…All his other Big 3 seemed found ‘something’ exceptional after they got married & have kids…Let’s hope!!!
Congrats to Rafa and Xisca indeed. BTW, when is Autumn in Europe, which months of the year?
September, October, November.
dull was dragging his feet engagement wise. he was most likely pressed by his family to finally do what any gentleman would. or perhaps, he figured out, hey this djokovic is sending me to an early retirement, and i better get married while i still can?
Luckystar i would say August / September time, by the way HAPPY CHINESE NEW YEAR 🙂
Thanks Alison.
It sounds so alien to me someone asking which months is autumn in Europe, lol
Luckystar, where are you from?
I’m from Singapore. We do not have four seasons in Singapore. This Autumn or Winter thing, it sometimes depends on where you are, I think Europe may be like say Japan and Korea, so may be it’s from September to November? Of course Australia is different when it’s in the Southern Hemisphere, so it’ll be spring in Australia during that period.
So I think Rafa will get married after the Laver Cup?
Oh wow, I didn’t know you were from Singapore, Lucky. I’ve never had communication of any kind with someone from Singapore. How cool! Happy New Year. 🙂
@ Mira….. this is a nice pleasant forum!
Miss Okie!!…U came!!…oh my God!!..i can’t believe u came!!..At last!!Ohhohohoho!!…
Hey guys!….this is Miss Okie!….Like all Rafans,she’s one of the most loyal,true & loving,& amazing Rafans i’ve ever known!…U have no idea how many times she kick my a@$ with her high heels coz i’m talking crap bout Rafa!heeheehee…
Miss Okie!….WELCOME TO TG!!!!…I told u TG is AWESOME!!…A place where a broken heart got mended..and sometimes a good heart got broken too!heehe…Oh all posters r very awesome too Miss Okie!..I mean ALl!…xcept maybe 1 or 2..heh heh..
Oh Miss Okie!….U came!!…At last!!Ohohohho!!…Big big welcome to TG Big Bossy!!hehehe…i’m so glad u came!
Btw my 1st post was disappeared…and it maybe will appear later..anyway…i told u TG r awesome Miss Okie!…Their posters too!…All of them…ermm xcept maybe the rare appearance from some..heh heh…
I knew you would probably turn hand springs! Did you?? Lol
Heheheheehehe….of cozzzzzzz big bossy!!….Hope u intend to stay forever!…And we could fight here everyday!
Hahahahaaha!!….now my 1st post suddenly appeared out of nowhere & successfully make me look sooo stupid 4 posting same thing twice!Ohohohoho!!….Thanks TG!!
Okie good to see you here, it is 😉
Thanks Al!
Happy to see you here okie! Remember you from tx but I left there a looong time ago.
Thank you hawkFDT! I don’t remember a hawkFDT but I do remember a Hawkeye! Thanks again!
Thx Luckystar,
Yes, autumn in Europe = Sept – Nov but things are not so clear cut anymore with this climate change. Im from Spain bury live in Belgium, for 20 years now!
Was in Singapore airport once, on my way to Bali ( honeymoon) and our flight left in the respite between two typhoons
… I was scared shitless since I don’t enjoy flying on a good day…but we had at pleasant flight. thankfully
Hey Lucky!…I gotta ask u something…have u read an article that said Rafa was unhappy about the leak of his engagement to the media?
And do u remember there’s an article as well last week that showed a so called a ‘strained lunch’ between Rafa & Xisca?…Is it possible that Rafa already knew about the leak at that time & has been bothered by it going to the final?That’s why he seemed’different’ that day?…Many pundits said Rafa seemed off and out of sorts…What we’ve seen that day certainly was not our Rafa…Sorry for asking Lucky….but i’m just curious & wanna know your opinion about it…Thanks…
Don’t think so Mira. I doubt Rafa let such things affect his game. As I said, there’s no need to worry so much, let’s wait and see how he does at Acapulco.
I’m sure Rafa is eager to prove that his game is back to where it should be by then. If Rafa is good enough, who knows, he may reach the finals at IW and Miami and may meet Djoko there, and I doubt he’ll get drubbings from Djoko again.
I hope that should they meet, it’ll be as competitive as during 2011 IW/Miami but this time, Rafa turns the table against Djoko.
It all started from IW/Miami 2011; Rafa almost beat Djoko in Miami and had he beaten Djoko then, the whole rivalry might not turn out the way it is now. Strange thing about 2011 – Rafa was hitting his BH really well, including his slices, in 2010 but those seemed to have gone missing in 2011. He was going FHCC all the time to Djoko on clay in 2011 and Djoko ‘killed’ him with his CCBH. It’s only in 2012 that Rafa was able to hit a more penetrating CCFH that he managed to beat Djoko thrice on clay.
Hope Rafa finds that penetrating CC FH and also his BHDTL and his DTL slices too.
Well, the same thing can be said of the dynamics of the Fedal rivalry. If Fed won in Rome final in that 5-set match 2006, who knows what would have happened…
Nah, Black Adder. Fed said it himself, that after losing the close match at Rome 2006, he was confident he could beat Rafa at Roland Garros that year; he won the first set 6-1 if I’m not wrong but Rafa managed to win the next three sets and the match.
It’s unlike the Rafa/Djoko in that Miami 2011 match when Rafa ran out of steam and lost. He became less confident after that match, unlike Fed in 2006 after Rome.
@MiraAndi,
Sorry for butting in, but it’s not impossible. No idea what the lead time is for publishing a rag like Hola! But they’d probably have had to go through Benito and I think he’d have told them off and not bothered Rafa with it before the final.
Lucky & Ramara….
Thanks for your response guys!…Can’t wait to see him in action again..esp.at IW…Hey!…do u guys think he will continue with his aggressive play or change his tactic a little bit bcoz Novak can figure him out easily in that final…surely it will give other players an idea how to face him if ever they meet….
Sorry, all I know is what Rafa said in his post final presser. Your best source, always. 🙂 Vamos Rafa!
Hi Lucky, Firsty thanks for responding to my posts. Its comforting and reassuring to see a fellow fan have a more positive outlook on Rafas immediate future.
I agree with what you just said to Mira too. It all changed at IW and later Miami 2011 when he had won the first set and narrowly lost the third on tie break. But it also clearly triggered the change in rivalry with Djokovic steaming ahead. I believe he got rid of the demons in his head at AO 2012. I still remember the regulation forehand he missed at the net at 30-15 to go up 4-2 in the fifth set. Now thats ok .. its sport. its 50-50 and a result of nerves on one single point could be just a bit of bad luck.
But look at how the AO immediately got him better winning at clay in 2012 and got them even again. What I come back to is how Novak relishes Rafa on the other side and Rafa does not. Wimbledon 2017 yea clutch serve on set point maybe.. maybe a lil more aggresive on the forehad wouldnt have had Djokovic pass him at 15-40 and he would have ended up winning Wimbledon.
I am sure you are more confident about Rafa than me and I hope you are right. Howeever I am absolutely certain the Rafa of AO2018 could have beaten Djokovic. He had it all peaking up to the semi final and had everything working. I agree with what Hewitt said Rafa being a shadow of himself, being out of sorts, unsettled, unbalanced, lack of freedom of movement and Novak sensing it. Rafa always comes out more nervous than Djokovic in their matches and still produces impeccable tennis until he gets broken or loses the first set. I do feel he has to somehow overcome it and start beating Djokovic again on hardcourts.
IW would be a wonderful oppurtunity at that. I hope it happens and things get back to 50-50 but what are odds with the last 8 hardcourt matches being straight set losses…
Rafa is always nervous at the start of his match, but, he won’t let it lead to a loss. It’s more than that for him to lose a match!
You see, a Rafa with his new found aggression plus his regular game imo would be able to counter this Djoko, I won’t say he’ll sure win the match, but at least he could make it a close one, and who knows, whoever was the tougher of the two might win in the end.
However, Rafa was clearly not himself when it came to his ‘old’ game – he’s slow off the block, slow in running after balls, slow in defence, subpar ROS, hit the ball into the net after having a BP, even missed the ball with an easy FH.
I think maybe because he knew his old game was not up to the mark yet hence he was out of sorts, looked unsettled? I also think that he’s not sure his aggressive game was good enough to beat Djoko; he didn’t hit his DTL FH during the match, a sign that he’s not confident out there.
I do feel that he’s in the right direction with his aggressive game, just get back his footwork, foot speed and his defence, so that he can play an offence and defence game at will. In 2004 as a youngster, he did the offensive game very well yet he’s quick enough when it came to defending; I don’t see any reason why he couldn’t do the same now, when he’s so much better a player now and he’s not slowing down too much in his footwork.
Rafa is always nervous and yes respectful to his opponents. But the one advantage he gets with the rest of the field is that he gets to win the first set 9/10 and then he steamrolls them by the time he hits the 3rd or later depending on the quality of the opponents. Its a simple pattern where most guys jsut wont get back up with the likes of the Big three.
I dont necessarily agree he wont let his nerves lead to a loss. 2011 being a prime example how a gradual couple losses in IW and Miami led to a disaster all year with Novak. 7 finals ? for a guy that has the best record in finals until then..
Here is what I think.. Nadals best vs Novaks best will always be a 50-50 with normal ups and downs (including mentally) within the game. After my dissapointment with the AO. I was just trying to look at how many times Novak got straight set wins over Nadal. and guess what ,if I am not entirely accurate with a manual check, believe it or not.. Its 20 times.. and Nadal did that 8 times and anyone can guess it was when Novak wasnt at his peak yet.
What I do know is this. Novak beats a nervous Nadal in straight sets.. Nadal at the moment will not get to do that even on clay because Novak has a mental edge along with an almost as good if not better Clay game. Its quite important for Nadal himself and his camp to acknoweldge the mental part and resolve it. Nadals game is as good as ever .. 2010 ..2013 and even as of this date.. The problem I see here is a potential for a 2011 pattern because we have IW next and not Monte Carlo.
I am not here to make my point or disagree. I am more than happy to see Nadal get back winning slams and masters.I sorta agree with you most part with one exception. If we are saying Nadal is only as nervous as with anyone else, when he plays Novak.. much similar to what he said in his interview.. that is nothing short of denial to me. All I remember is Novak went for broke at a Matchpoint twice at the US because he had nothing to lose and then held on to that winning pattern without any serious setbacks caused by the other end. If Fed can reverse a decade of mental edge with AO 2017 and go on to win 4 or 5 consecutive matches with Nadal. I dont see Nadal not capable of doing the same. But whatever it is the margins are small inside the courts but the mental part can widen with the wins and losses.
The race to the leaderboard at the moment with GS count is awesome at the moment and it pains me to see Nadal’s loss is the biggest within it.. AO 2017 would have made it 18-19 ( as of date ) couple it with this one.. AO2019 and then wimbleon 2018 maybe win the set point… see where I am getting at.. if he loses, its not just him staying where he is but the other two closing in or moving further away. and to me Nadal as greatest has he is and as unlucky with the countless injuries having him missed those GS numbers.. must have been and clearly deserving to be at the top of the leaderboard and he is not.
And with Novak his equation is even worse.. Novak has more weeks at No.1 than Nadal..ok Happened for many reasons.. but I fear Novak would push Rafa away on the GS count too .. Unless Rafa fixes his mind and goes for the kill.. Which I see you believe he will…
PK, regarding the nervous issue, well, don’t think you get what I meant. Rafa is/was always nervous at the start of matches, this is different from having mental blocks against certain players, like against Djoko for example.
Rafa could always calm his nerve after a few games and so I think it’s not fair to say that he loses because he couldn’t calm his nerve. Against Djoko it’s a totally different issue; I tend to think that after a few losses to him, Rafa may have doubts that he’s not going to beat Djoko again and so he tends to start with the wrong foot in their matches – Madrid/Rome 2011; MC2013 when Rafa was back from long injury break, done well right up to IW but hadn’t met Djoko until MC that year.
I also think that the two epic matches they played during 2012/2013 – AO2012 and FO2013 – had turned things around for Rafa, knowing that he could stay with Djoko throughout a long epic match and nearly got two wins out of two matches played. I feel that Miami 2011 loss affected him badly, because he was the one who ran out of steam in the heat whilst Djoko was the fitter one which to him was a surprise.
I knew all along Djoko beat Rafa quite comfortably on HCs esp in BO3 matches, he usually won in straight sets. Believe me, before you went back to count the number of straight set losses for Rafa to Djoko, I’d already counted that since long time ago.
The problem with Rafa is that he is usually slow off the block and in BO3 matches, once Djoko gone ahead to win the first set, he normally won’t let go the advantage. In BO5 sets, Rafa can afford to start slow, hence their matches are usually hard fought four or five setters.
Djoko will always have the advantage on the HCs esp in BO3, in BO5, they’re now 3-2 advantage Djoko.
Rafa hasn’t won a HC match against Nole since 2013 US Open what do you mean by 3-2 ?
What Lucky means is 3-2 on BO5 on HC ( AO and US) ..
Lucky, Yeah I think I get what you mean better now.. My bad. Yes Rafa is nervous I guess always on all matches at the starts.. He has had multiple patters over the years..particularly on HCs and then when not so much in form on CC. With players like Stan or a Cilic or even a Karlovic he had tight first sets.. winning tie breaks and then loosening and cruising on the second sets.
IW and Miami 2011 I think both were wonderful levels of tennis and in both I remember Rafa winning the first sets and Novak coming off a I think 40+ unbeaten streak.It wasnt a bad loss at all in my opinion but affected Rafa more than it should have.. and the patterns started emerging and went south for Rafa since then when it comes to Novak..
I have always disagreed with people saying Rafa is a claycourter, days when ah he wont win the AO, certainly not the USO and then he has this incredible record in hardcourts nothing short of being on par with a Fed or even Novak. A 2-1 record in the US open as of now is enough evidence of the same.
Its all about margins.. I track Nadals stats much like you I think and looking at when it started from 2011. I cant help thinking the mental edge wasnt the biggest cause of the whole change in pattern. Yes your results have to match to help you get the mental lead and Rafa had come up with solutions again and again but not enough to hold back the overall match up. I look at a 15-10 finals record between Novak and Rafa while I remember Fed saying “Look at Rafas record in his finals” until then.
To your point, Rafa has nervous starts against all players but his pattern of choosing to receive was always to pounce early to get a break. I wouldnt necessary define him as slow off the block. With Novak he just falls back soon enough, sometimes fairly but more recently because of his own undoing more than anything else.
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naydull checking nole’s kryptonite.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx63NW4WsAUwF2P.jpg
That’s…awkward.
Heheheheehehhehehe….That’s funny rfzr!!….Ohohohohohohoho!!