A blockbuster quarterfinal between Rafael Nadal and Marin Cilic is on tap for Tuesday at the Australian Open. A more surprising one pits Grigor Dimitrov against Kyle Edmund. Ricky Dimon of The Grandstand and Joey Hanf of Cliff Drysdale Tennis preview the two matchups and make their picks.
(1) Rafael Nadal vs. (6) Marin Cilic
Ricky: Cilic vs. Pablo Carreno Busta on Sunday was better than anyone could have expected. PCB threw everything he had at Cilic and the Croat came up with the necessary answers. On a relatively fast surface, he is once again looking like a slam title contender (just as he did at the 2014 U.S. Open and at Wimbledon in 2017). In my Wimbledon pre-tournament picks, I had Gilles Muller beating Nadal in the fourth round. When the time came, I changed it because of how good Nadal looked through three rounds. I’m not getting swindled into the same mistake again. The world No. 1 is playing well and has dropped only one set through four matches in Melbourne, but Cilic is playing too big for him right now on a hard court. After all, even Diego Schwartzman bullied Nadal around for a brief time on Sunday. Cilic in 4: 6-7(5), 6-4, 6-4, 7-6(6).
Joey: The first real test for Nadal in this tournament will come on Tuesday, with Cilic the first player he has faced who has actual weapons that can hurt him. But Cilic, as is often the case, has not looked particularly reliable this fortnight. He has given up leads and struggled to close out matches that realistically should have been routine. And whenever you play Nadal, you have to be willing to go for it on the big points. I think Cilic will keep sets close because of Nadal’s insane return position but ultimately come up short when it matters most. The Spaniard’s serve has looked very good thus far, and the forehand doesn’t seem to be having any problems. Nadal would be smart to use a fair bit of slice and force the Croatian to generate his own pace. This lopsided head-to-head will only grow further apart. Nadal 6-4, 6-7(4), 7-5, 6-2.
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(3) Grigor Dimitrov vs. Kyle Edmund
Ricky: Dimitrov was awesome against Nick Kyrgios, four days after playing down to his competition in a five-set escape against Mackenzie McDonald. Once again heavily favored against an unseeded opponent, the world No. 3 will learn from his McDonald mistake and make sure to treat this match with the respect it deserves. After upsetting Kevin Anderson in the first round, Edmund has done what he failed to do at last year’s U.S. Open: capitalize on a favorable draw. But it hasn’t been easy. He needed five sets to outlast Nikoloz Basilashvili and took a medical timeout for a right shoulder issue during a four-set win over Andreas Seppi on Sunday. This is where the Brit’s Australian summer finally comes to an end. Dimitrov in 4: 6-3, 5-7, 6-4, 6-2.
Joey: I’m surprised by this quarterfinal; really thought we were getting another Kyrgios-Seppi clash. Edmund’s journey has been wild; he was literally running on fumes against Basilashivili. He began going for virtually every ball in that match, and he executed the same strategy against Seppi. Unfortunately for him, Dimitrov is one of the most athletic defenders in the world. Dimitrov had to play an extremely high level to beat Kyrgios, and I think that momentum should carry him through this one. While he wasn’t playing great early in the tournament, his confidence is growing. I am interested to see when this match is scheduled; Dimitrov heavily prefers night conditions where the ball doesn’t fly as much. Edmund has been playing the best tennis of his career, but it seems pretty clear his legs not quite there anymore. The Bulgarian will expose that. Dimitrov 6-4, 3-6, 7-5, 6-2.
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who ya got?
Dimitrov in four and Nadal in five. I do agree that Cilic is looking like a contender and not many are really thinking that of him because of how under the radar he has been. But it does feel to me kind of like the US Open that he won where he is under the radar but serving huge then gets hotter and hotter as the tourney progresses. I still have Rafa getting through but after Cilic’s serving performances this tournament and Rafa’s struggles against Schwartzman, I think this could go either way. Head to head has me taking Rafa though.
Benny, Ricky choose afer all a player not named Nadal (aka Cilic), lol! So, my first interpretation of Ricky’s cryptic remark (“not Nadal in three”) wasn’t so far off.
It’s a bold prediction considering the history between the two players. Cilic’s last win over Rafa came more than 8 years ago (in Shanghai 2009) at a time when Rafa clearly was’t at his best, while Rafa’s last win over Cilic came just a couple of months ago (also in Shanghai). But Cilic has matured a lot since 2009 and Rafa is 31 now, While Rafa played well so far, he might still not be at his very best, and Cilic is flying under the radar. I still have Rafa for a hard fought win, mainly because of his superior mentality, but I wouldn’t be shocked if Cilic makes it.
Dimitrov in 4
Nadal in 5 (Cilic will not be able to mentally beat Rafa)
Rafa in four, Dimi in five. I think Rafa should get the night match so he’ll do better than in a day match. Dimi OTOH will struggle a bit in a day match and so Edmund (who played most of his matches during the day) will be able to push to go the distance.
Lucky, aren’t the night match conditions a tad slower than the day time conditions? I can’t remember when I read this but it would make sense.
It’s definitely an advantage to get a night match in Melbourne because of the often harsh day time conditions. Not for the two playing each other of course since they obviously face the same conditions. But it might become important in the next round for the advancing players.
At Fed’s age it should make a big difference. And yes, he is clearly favored by the organizers. That is quite evident. But I can understand they want that one of their biggest stars remains in the draw. But then, the same is probably true for Rafa. His match against Dzumhur was also no night match material, and since their local boy is out now, the tournament could do worse than sporting another Fedal final.
#AusOpen@AustralianOpen 45 minutes ago
Schedule Tues Jan 23:
RLA Day Session
Bryan Brothers vs Matkowski & Qureshi
Mertens vs Svitolina (NB 1pm)
Dimitrov vs Edmund (NB 2.30)
RLA Night Session
Nadal vs Cilic
Suarez Navarro vs Wozniacki
https://twitter.com/AustralianOpen/status/955295900347252736
Careno-Busta threw everything HE had at Cilic and it took Cilic 4 sets including 3 TBs to beat him. Let’s face it, as accomplished as Carena-Busta is, he doesn’t have Rafa’s tool box. Rafa would normally brush Careno-Busta off like fluff. So I wouldn’t use Careno-Busta as a benchmark.
I happen to agree with nadline. That is exactly how I saw that match. PCB was serving for a two sets to one lead in the third set. He was giving Cilic quite a battle until he lost it after failing to serve out the third set, getting blown out in the TB.
Rafa has one big advantage over Cilic and that is his mental strength. We have seen Cilic turn victory into defeat because he lost his focus. Rafa got a lot out of the match with Diego. He had to battle and raise his level of play and that will give him confidence moving forward. He needed to be tested. Rafa struggling against Diego in the fourth round not being match tough does not mean he will do the same against Cilic. Quite the opposite. I think Rafa will be ready.
Dimitrov in 4
Nadal in 3 (Nadal had won two matches against Cilic in straight sets last year – can’t see things had changed. Nadal seems very secure)
He was not secure in the first set thats for sure against S’man.
U tripping Monk boi
Dimitrov in 4. Edmund is just about out of gas, and Dimitrov has too much game for him.
Nadal in 5. The H2H can’t be ignored. Cilic has the game to beat Rafa, obviously, but he’s mentally weak. Nadal has been playing extremely well until the Diego match, but I expect him to up his game again for Cilic. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Marin take it in a close one, though.
Like your reasoning for this matches.
Agree with your arguments, Joe. I can’t see Edmund winning against Dimi – even in a day match – which might be a slight advantage for Edmund. But I think Kyle will eventually run out of gas and courage against Dimi.
Cilic has most certainly the tools to hurt Rafa, but will he be able to use them? History says “No”! A couple of months ago Rafa even won in straight sets on fast hardcourt in Shanghai. But then again – nobody thought that Cilic would win his semifinal against Fed at the USO 2014. Cilic is probably at his best when he’s not in the spotlight. And while Rafa seems to be in a good shape. I’m not convinced, yet, that he’s in great shape. The upcoming match will tell…
Nadal in 3- not lost a set since Basel 2015 when Rafa was low in confidence. Cilic only beat him in 2009 when Rafa has a injury so I don’t think he can beat a fully fit Rafa
Dimitrov in 4- his overall game can beat Edmund even when on 80%
Not only was Rafa injured in Beijing in 2009, it was during the time his parents were splitting up. After the match, he said it’s hard to play when you are not mentally on court. I remember that match; Cilic was up something like 5:0 in the first 15 minutes, because Rafa wasn’t really ‘playing’.
Nadline, this 8 year old match from 2009 doesn’t tell us anything useful about that match-up. As you say, Rafa was totally out of sorts. But Cilic is also a different player.
littlefoot,
Rafa has won their last 5 conceding one set in total.
Of course nothing is written in stone and I hope Rafa brings his ‘A’ game.
I know! Even very recent history strongly suggests a Rafa win. But as you say: nothing is written in stone, and I’m not sure if Rafa is really already near his best. And last year against Fed we also thought that because of their lopsided h2h history is totally on Rafa’s side – or 2014 against Wawa. Rafa had never lost to Wawa before. Actually before AO 2014 Rafa had lost only one measly set in more than 10 matches against Wawa. Somehow the AO have become a bit of an unlucky slam for Rafa.
littlefoot AT 5:04 PM,
Rafa injured his back during the warm-up of the AO 2014 final. He was suffering from that injury (facet syndrome) all year round and underwent stem cell therapy at the end of 2014 (Oct-Nov.).
Rafa in four and Dimitrov also in four.
Rafa in 3; Dtrov in 3.
Anyone know if Rafa’s parents are friendly with each other now? I know they split up in 2009 but they seem pretty friendly when Rafa wins a match
Oliver, they have reunited long ago. Hopefully for better reasons than just helping Rafa’s career, lol!
They are back together again.
Rafa has been playing pretty well given he has not played a professional matches going into the tournament. It was a bit ugly from Rafa against Diego but mind you, Diego played like a one hell of a baseliner and he was not easy to put away.
Rafa was serving poorly the first two sets and he needs to hit better first serves. If he can do that, he will get past Cilic in 4 sets max in my view.
Rafa HATES humidity! It gets less humind after Weds I guess.
Thanks Little Foot! I thought that! So looking foreword to the Nadal-Cilic match. People are also underestimating Berdych against Federer
Wrong. Berdych is the biggest impediment to Fed reaching the final.
Fed in three vs Berdy. Berdy hasn’t been pushed. Delpo looked tired and injured and Foggy be Foggy.
#NID
Agree, Eugene. In fact, at this point I’d say Berdych is the biggest impediment to Fed winning the title. Berdych has the game to take Fed out, and he has beaten him at slams twice before. OTOH, he hasn’t beaten him in nearly five years, and the bigger racquet really helps Fed against power players like Tomas.
Still, if Berdych continues at the level he has been playing last few matches (out of his skin for long stretches from what I’ve seen), I wouldn’t be too surprised to see him beat Roger.
Yes Ricky , most of us knew then rafa will be eliminated to muller bcs gilles was so good when he was coming to wimbledon. But now conditions are highly different and marin isnt at his peak form. That will be enough for Rafa to dominate. Rafa in 4 , Dimitrov in 3.
I don’t know that I agree with Ricky’s reasoning for not getting fooled regarding the Rafa/Muller fourth round match at Wimbledon. Rafa came in without playing any warm up tournaments. Muller was in a hot streak going into Wimbledon. That match was a very close one. Rafa played extremely well and Muller had to play the match of his life to win. The key issue in that match was Rafa’s inability to break Muller’s serve. I remember he had a high number of break chances in that match but could not break Muller. That was the difference in that match.
I don’t know that the situation is that similar now with Rafa and Cilic. This is not grass, which is Cilic’s best surface. I think he was playing much better heading into Wimbledon. He certainly has the game on hard courts with his big serve and powerful ground strokes. If he has showed a lack of mental strength in matches.
Cilic certainly is a threat and could win if he serves lights out. Rafa also has to serve better in the match if he is to win. I think the H2H cannot be ignored. I think that the match with Diego helped Rafa to be match ready.
I am still going with Rafa. It should be a good match.
NNY, I agree with all you said. If I were just a neutral tennis fan I would probably just assume that Rafa will win. But the AO have become a bit of an unlucky slam for Rafa. Last year against Fed we also thought that their h2h at slams totally suggests a Rafa win. And against Wawa Rafa had an even more lopsided record. He had lost one measly set in all his previous matches against Stan. Therefore I’m a bit nervous. Cilic can be dangerous and while Rafa played well he might still not be at 100%. I haven’t seen any of Marin’s matches, though. Obviously he won, but I don’t know how well he actually played.
littlefoot,
Nothing is for certain. Rafa came into the AO without playing any warm up matches. So is he ready to go all the way? I can’t say for sure. I just knew looking at his draw in the early rounds that he could get to at least the quarterfinals.
Now the rubber hits the road. I am expecting Rafa to come out and play better. Can Cilic keep it together and get the win? We will have to see.
I don’t think Rafa’s performance against a tough Diego means that he can’t get it done. Rafa was always going to be pushed at some point.
Is Rafa ready and able to go all the way? That is the question.
NNY, my gut tells me that while Rafa might win against Cilic, he’s not ready to win the trophy. If Cilic doesn’t get him, Dimi or Fed probably will. On paper he should win against all of them. But we shouldn’t forget that Rafa pulled out of all warm-up tournaments. He did so for a reason. Considering that Rafa who always needed a lot of matches under his belt, didn’t play any competitive matches before the AO, he did actually rather well so far. But from now on there are no more margins of error.
I was definitely concerned about how he played against Diego. I want to believe it was a one off and that heat and humidity and Schwartzman’s level had a lot to do with it. The upcoming match will tell us much more about Rafa’s shape than his four previous matches. But at last year’s AO Rafa was probably in better shape than this year since he had a long and fruitful pre-season practicing period. It would be very surprising if Rafa managed to reach the same level without this benefit.
Why, exactly, should Rafa win against Fed “on paper”? Fed is the clear favourite against Rafa right now on this surface. He has the better game and loads of confidence from last year.
Off clay, the overall H2H is ancient history.
littlefoot, if Rafa raises his level to beat Cilic and Dimitrov in succession, that high level will take down Federer.
Always has and always will.
“Always has”: Obviously false, as 5 straight losses shows.
“Always will”: Also probably false, though time will tell.
The true mark of a Rafa-fanatic: if Rafa lost, he couldn’t have been at his best.
Littlefoot: I’m genuinely interested in your reasons why Rafa should beat Fed on paper on this surface.
Hey Joe, when I said on paper I meant just that: on paper. The cold numbers seem to favor Rafa: He’s No 1, he’s five years younger and he has the better h2h – not only overall but also at the slams, and specifically at the AO. Last year was the first time since Wimby 2007 that Roger beat Rafa at a slam. And that’s of course the rub. Recent history between the two is more significant than all the other cold stats. Also, right now I think that Rafa is in worse shape than last year.
But if he really manages to take out Cilic and Dimi, then he’s against all odds in great shape after all and has a fighting chance against Fed. That’s all. Numbers and stats are just that. Let the guys play…
Ok, Littlefoot, fair enough. Certainly an uninjured Rafa will have more than a fighting chance against Federer, on any surface. He may well beat him if they meet in the final here.
Nevertheless, at this point and on this surface, and given recent history, if we see a Fedal final, Fed has to be considered the favourite. That’s how I understand “on paper”.
Joe Smith’s understanding of on paper far surpasses his understanding of what a straw man argument is (despite the fact that he excels in them).
Nonetheless, no, not false Joe Smith. Rafa wasn’t near as good last year as he was from 2010-2013.
Nole of 2011-2016 may very well have beaten 2017 Rafa at both the French Open and USO last year. He’d beat any version of Federer on a hard court slam too (5-0 vs Fed over 2010-16) – including this year (unless of course, Fed doubled the size of his current racquet which is a given of course – just a matter of time – probably before he turns 40).
That’s all you get Joe Smith. One response per straw man argument from you per year.
#YoureWelcome
It’s definitely possible for Cilic to win against Nadal under certain circumstances. But in general, it’s so hard to imagine that.
Eugene (Oregon!lol),
You said…:Cilic to win against Nadal under certain circumstances….”
Under what circumastances?
Want to know all the angles in this match to avoid an upset (Of Nadal by Cilic)!
Cilic is playing well. He has changed a lot in his camp and training which he revealed in his interviews the last couple of days. If Cilic wins in 4 or 5 with his big serve & volley working, I won’t be surprised. That is the reason probably why Ricky is picking Cilic to upset Nadal in 4!
With hard Surface not being Nadal’s FAV surface and Nadal kinda struggling to win against a midget (shortman who is a better, trickier opponent than PCB) (…who runs around collecting all the nuts before they fall to the ground from the tree!lol)…Cilic has probably the best chance to upset Nadal now on hard surface in a place where Kangaroos live and far away from Mallorca (or Europe where there are clay courts everywhere and where the King of Clay Nadal thrives!lol).
If Cilic serves hard, doesn’t lose his serves ever, is mentally strong in tough situations and does not forget that he is a giant with great physical advantages compared to Nadal…then Cilic can upset Nadal today!
Going with a Nadal ML win finally. As Nadal is the better returner and will out-duel Cilic in the rallies with his greater tennis IQ!Here is the BIG DIFFERENCE between Nadal and Cilic…giving Nadal the win today! Besides Nadal is better mover, better at Net play and in the cat and mouse game than Cilic!
Expecting a 4 or 5 setter match as hard is not Nadal’s fav surface..where he cannot slide and do all those magic shots! Like the over to hit here!
Eugene (Oregon!lol), Under what circumastances (Cilic will win against Nadal)?
I hope to visit Oregon, Eugene one day 🙂
If Rafa plays close to his best, he can hardly be stopped even on HC.
So, in order that to happen, Rafa has to play at max 80%, Cilic must be emotionally tough and must play at 9/10 of his level. All those are possible of course. However, Rafa moves better and is more flexible. Cilic has size to cover the court, power and aggressiveness.
That’s going to be an amazing match. Can’t wait. Everything is possible.
In most articles when fed fans are being questioned about feds draw they are replying that it is not feds fault that djoko and thiem lost. Going by that argument it was also not nadals fault that dimi and fed were beaten before he could meet them in uso 2017. Why such double standards I dont understand.Even Berdych lost early in uso 17. fed fans are really blind.
Well their opponents got beaten for a reason or two. I can show you at least 5 Fed fans who didn’t use Fed’s USOPEN exit as an excuse for Rafa’s success. You choose to see only the bright/side of the moon, without acknowledging the existence of both.
bright/dark side *
rafa rules AT 4:49 PM,
Fedfans have had double standards for a long time: one for their darling and the other for Rafa whome they have hated for more than a decade.
Federer, Rafa, and Djokovic all have fans who are hypocritical assholes. Every sport has these kinds of “fans”. Those same players and teams, who have shitty fans, also have perfectly reasonable fans. Social media makes it seem like these trolling fawns make up a player’s entire fan base, when in reality most fans of the Big 3 are reasonable fans. It sucks that a minority of insecure people, who care more about the other two guys losing than their own guy winning, are the ones who are the most visible all the time.
It’s just the reality of it, though. In every sport, there has always been shitty fans. Always. You just need to learn to ignore them. Since they don’t have to actually face anyone when they spew their theories and insecurities, they will never ever be willing to even be open to any other viewpoints. So there’s no point in even discussing those assholes, let alone responding to them. Best we just accept they will always be a part of the entertainment world, and not give them the time of day.
Rafa will crush Cilic in 3. He will up his level here.
Dimitrov will be a significantly bigger challenge
“The world No. 1 is playing well and has dropped only one set through four matches in Melbourne” simply doesn’t jive with “even Diego Schwartzman bullied Nadal around for a brief time on Sunday.”
It wasn’t so brief.
I would have picked Cilic until I suffered through that nightmare of a match vs Schwartzman. That was perhaps the worse hard court match I’ve seen him play in over a year.
This one is a toss up. Cilic may not be at his best but neither is Rafa apparently.
Regardless, neither is getting past Dimitrov IMO (as I said before AO started).
Dimi was a beast vs Kyrgios and will either beat Cilic cilly or leverage his loss to Rafa at the same point last year to catapult him into his first slam final (where Fed will win in 3-4 sets).
Hawkeye I disagree, Rafa should get through Dimitrov if they both make it in another 4/5 set epic!
olly, I meant to say “I would have picked Rafa until I…”
#FreudianSlipsAreEverywhere
Rafa won’t beat Cilic or Dimi if he plays like he did vs Diego.
Don’t think he’ll play like that.
Dimi now having a hard time vs Edmund; he may need to play an exhausting match in the sun. Don’t underestimate Edmund, he has a good serve and a big FH. The problem with Dimi imo is that he tends to drag on instead of pulling the trigger earlier . IOWs, Dimi hasn’t learned the gist of when to turn defense into offense at the right time.
Lucky, while Dimi has definitely matured, I still hesitate to declare him one of the biggest threats for the top dogs. His WTF win was certainly inspiring for him, but look again whom he actually beat – and whom he didn’t have to beat for the title. In all their matches he scored just one single win over Rafa and one measly win over Fed on clay in Madrid. He was very lucky that Goffin took Fed out and that an ailing Rafa dropped out. As to Edmund being tired. Dimi might be a bit tired himself after his epic win over Kyrgios. Is the heat bearable today? I haven’t checked. Dimi used to be a disaster in hot conditions since he tended to cramp even in best-of-three matches. Guess he has toughened up a bit, though.
Just checked. The weather is nice and pleasant.
Not the temperature, it’s the humidity that matters.
The weather is pretty mild today, 24 degrees (75F) and normal humidity. Dimitrov is just struggling because, well, he’s struggling and Edmund is playing well.
I feel like Dimi has brought his A game to the Kyrgios match, particularly in the big moments, but in the others has been too passive.
Rafa needs to bring his ‘A’ game from now on.
Vamos Rafa!
Dimi to beat a tired, anxious Edmund who complains about the sun as he says his fair complexion suffers. Dimi will be on full alert and eager to go one further than last year to meet Fed in the final.
Edmund doesn’t look tired to me, he’s playing better tennis than Dimi at the moment in their QF match.
Fed will lose a set. Berdych is playing really good atm. Took out del potro in straights dayummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Stay focused, remain confident, be strong and fight bravely, Rafa!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUL73oTW0AUqG7a.jpg
I don’t see why Rafa’s performance against Diego should be cause for concern. Rafa was down two sets to one against Zverev in the fourth round of last year’s AO. Rafa seemed somewhat flat and Diego came out guns blazing. It’s not important to play your best in the fourth round. Rafa was pushed and ultimately responded. That is how you get into really good form.
Dimi has played like crap in his previous matches leading up to Kyrgios. He had 15 DF’s in his third round match. His backhand was dreadful. He was scraping and clawing his way through his matches. He finally raised his level of play because otherwise he would not have beaten Kyrgios.
Does Rafa have to give a master class tennis match in the first week of a slam? The bottom line is that Rafa will know that he has to play much better against Cilic. If he plays the way he did against Diego then he will lose.
We will have to watch and see what happens.
On balance Rafa should win. The first few games are key, as he tends to start his matches with some nerves. Hope he brings his ‘A’ game.
Vamos Rafa!
Yes, please Rafa bring your ‘A’ game!
Vamos Rafa!
Rafa is almost always the underdog whenever the opponent has something that can trouble him. Cilic is tipped to slay Rafa though he has one victory over him in his worst year on his worst surface in a best of three.
Fed on the other hand is always the fovorite though Berdych has beaten him on grass, his favorite surface and also at the USO after he had won wimbledon
vmk1
Couldn’t put it better.
I hope Rafa proves his doubters wrong.
Vamos Rafa!
Rafa isn’t the underdog by any means. Cilic’s serve has just been insane this tournament which is why he has a shot. I expect Rafa to still get the win though.
Dimitrov in trouble :O
Kyrgios must now be wondering why this Dimitrov didn’t show up to play during their match.
Hey people, check out the match with Dimi and Edmund! Edmund just won the third set and is leading two sets to one!
For anyone who penciled in Dimi to beat Rafa and get to the final, maybe that was premature.
Exactly. I said it earlier, that the Dimi vs Edmund matchmay go to five sets. Edmund is playing well this AO, people should’nt underestimate him. He played his matches mostly during the day, so he’s more or less used to the weather conditions already.
I expect a tough one for Dimi, and he may not come through to win in the end.
At this point in the tournament, no matches surprise me here so Dimitrov losing at the moment ain’t even a shock at all to me. Compared to yesterday’s matches, this is almost not even an upset 😂
Rafa and Roger are about to have the greatest semifinal draws of all time!! 😂
In terms of ranking that is. The level of their opponents in the semis will obviously be high and not to be underestimated. It’s just crazy though that if Rafa and Roger get there, Rafa would have Edmund (unless he loses which looks unlikely at this point) and Roger would have Chung or Sandgren. Just crazy
At this point you would have to favour Fedal to make it given their histories…but neither of them set the world on fire in their last mach, so I can’t be confident about it. It’s pretty much expected that they’ll step their level up this deep into a slam, as it’s what they generally do, but at the same time it has to be harder & harder to maintain consistency at this point in their respective careers.
Thinwhite, this season will probably continue to produce crazy results. While I expect that Fed and Rafa will stay on top of the field as long as they are healthy, I don’t believe that they will repeat their stellar results of the last season. It’s just not realistic at their age. But it’s crazy nevertheless that in terms of ranking points they’re miles ahead of the field…
These upsets confirm Hawkeye’s theory that we have a somewhat weak era at our hands right now. Neither Rafa nor Fed are at their very best anymore. But with Novak and Andy gone they’re still miles ahead of the rest of the field. None of the younger guns manages to be a constant threat. Dimi had a somewhat tough draw. But I’d never have guessed that he would go out against Edmund of all players. And yet, the writing was on the wall: Dimi was nowhere near his form of a year ago. he struggled in his earlier rounds, too. But we were deceived by his win over local hero Nick.
And England has a new hero. He isn’t even Scottish, lol!
Littlefoot, if you followed the thread on the Federer page, you’ll see my arguments that the “weak era” hypothesis is very difficult even to formulate coherently; it is most certainly not well confirmed. You’ll see lots of Hawkeye’s personal insults (some deleted by Ricky), but no really attempt to answer what I said.
This is not a weak era any more than 2004-07 was. If you have a good argument to the contrary, I’d love to hear it. (Imo, both Federer and Nadal were better at times last year than they have ever been; in Roger’s case that is mainly due to the larger racquet).
Dimitrov wasn’t at his best, but Edmund was the (far) better player, and has a decent chance to take out any player remaining if he continues to play like that. He served lights out, and hit a ton of FH winners. The commentators quoted Nadal after he played Edmund last year, saying Kyle has one of the best forehands in the game. That was pretty obvious today.
Joe, I’m not going to enter this thorny debate extensively, because we will never be able to find a satisfying end, lol
Let me just say this: it’s hard to denie IMHO that we have a somewhat weak era right now. The fact that Fed and Rafa, who are past their respective prime, sit comfortably on top of the heap says it all. The fact that Rafa’s USO draw and now Fed’s and Rafa’s AO draws collapsed to the point where they have to face only one seeded player in order to reach the final, says it all. If you watch old videos it’s evident that both of them are still great but not as great as they used to be. Although I have to say that it’s of course a testament to their greatness that they are nevertheless still there and on top of everybody else. The problem right now is that apparently no one apart from Fed and Rafa is ready to take up the gauntlet and develop some kind of consistency. And that is indeed similar to the period after Sampras’ and a bit later Agassi’s rule came to an end.
And right now, on any other surface than clay, Rafa has profitted as much from this new weak era as Fed. No double standards here.
It’s hard to say why the next generation has so much trouble to establish itself. We discussed several reasons yesterday. It could simply be that many promising young athlets choose other sports since the majority of tennis players is underpaid. It could simply be a normal backlash after the so called Goden Era. But one of my pet theories is, that a lot of the Young Guns missed out in the mental department. They were never able to picture themselves as slam winners as long as the Big Four made it virtually impossible to win one of the big trophies. They always had to be content being runner-ups, and that affected their mentality.
This season will be very interesting because it certainly will mark a transition.
It may be that we disagree about the respective level of Rafa and Fed vs earlier versions of themselves. It’s too early to say much about this year, but as I said, last year a good case can be made that they were at their very best, at times.
Rafa was, imo, at his very best last year at RG. His movement may not have been what it was in 2008, but he never hit with such aggression and power. That continued, to some extent, in the Asian HC swing.
Federer was also at or near his career best at various points, including Wimbledon.
More generally, I think the whole idea that absolute level at a given moment is tied to consistency/greatness over many years is misguided. It’s not true in team sports: the 1985 Chicago Bears are still regarded as one of the greatest teams ever, even though they never played in another Super Bowl.
In recent years in tennis, I would say that Cilic at 2014 USO, or Wawrinka at 2015 RG, would have had a good chance to beat any of the big four at their very best. Indeed, they did beat Djokovic and Federer, respectively, late in those tournaments. They were just that good on the day.
Benny, Rafa’s and Fed’s opponents in the quarterfinals are their biggest threats now – Cilic a bit more so than Berdych IMO, but we will see. If Fedal manages to reach the semis we can safely pencil them in for another final. And if that happens each of them had to conquer only one seeded player. Crazy times…
Dimi’s 2nd serve seems to have left the building and taken the rest of his game with it. But they’re back on serve in the 4th and Dimi will have to go 5 to win it.
Vamos Rafa!
Dimitrov lost because he played a defensive game. He was never in control of the points.
Yep. Just too passive all tournament apart from the Kyrgios match, where he knew that he’d have to play more aggressive to win.
Edmund wins it. Played a good game, bar the nerves at the end. Dimitrov was pretty disappointing though.
What a letdown my Dimi. He threw the bathroom sink at Rafa last year and probably took the wind out of Rafa’s sails for the finals and now this where is double faulted like there is no tomorrow
Lol! When courier asked Edmund what he feels about the media attention, he says he knows what it is like to be Andy murray for the last 8 years
So many upsets in the last few days. Hope Rafa can avoid the upset bug
Grats to Kyle Edmund. Late in the match John McEnroe mentioned Andy Murray probably watching at home on TV. So sad. Hope he gets better!
So there will be two unseeded male semifinalists in the AO! Amazing. #NextGen at last?
See, Dimi is out! Never underestimate Edmund!
I knew it when Dimi has to play a day match; he’s playing night and day, night and day and going four sets all the time (with one going five sets), not very encouraging performances. He summoned whatever he had to beat a red hot Kyrgios, too bad that’s the only time he played determined and tried to win convincingly.
Wow,I’m just shocked with this big upset,many congratulations to Kyle on reaching his first Slam SF,he has a really nice game. You were spot on with your prediction with Dimi struggling in day session matches. Did Edmund play out of his skin or it was just a day off for Dimi?
Wow! These AO are crazy for sure! Hopefully Rafa fights like a lion against Cilic. And I was right: Dimi has been overrated after his WTF success, which came about because his main two foes dropped out.
Why does Rusedski call Grigor “Gregor”?
Rafa’s come out sharp. He’l get this done in 3 sets as long as he keeps serving well. It’s been good so far.
Bad second serve return misses from Rafa
So many chances missed and he is nervous in this 3-3 game now. Dropping it short. Come on Rafa! Hold here and put your foot back on the pedal.
Huge hold for Rafa after saving a BP. Vamos Rafa!
Rafa breaks and make it 5-3. Will now serve to win the first set,vamos!
Vamos! First break. Hope he does not get broken back
Phenomenal CC backhand to make it 40-30!
A dumb point by Rafa, why is he hitting down the Centre when Cilic is there waiting to redirect it to anywhere he wants?
to be fair, Cilic makes strange errors when hitting forehands from the centre of the court. It often becomes a weakness for him.
Rafa is so nervy serving for the set!
1st set Rafa!
Vaaaaaammmmmmoooooooooossssssss!
Vamos! Hope he does not let up
Finally! He should use his DTL FH more.
Rafa is the better player this first set; his serve has improved but his ROS has gone backwards. He had 6 BP chances yet he squandered all of them in one of Cilic’s service game.
I hope he’s more calm now after winning the first set.
He takes the first set! He’s serving really well,struggled a bit to close the set but he made it. He has been able to create chances in Cilic serve games,if he continues to play like this he can get the job done in straights.
Vamos!
Huge forehand to level the second set,1-1.
Cilic getting out of trouble with some huge serves.
What a DTL forehand to have two BP,make it Rafa!
Cilic DF and Rafa gets the break,3-2.
Vamos Vamos Vamos!
Rafa doing well but really hard to explain the dip in his second serve points won. Cilic going for his returns but Rafa’s been consistently winning 55-60% second serves lately, even against good players. Today he is at 35% SO FAR.
Absolutely,Cilic has been able to attack Rafa’s second serves,especially with his forehand.
Have a feeling, whoever wins the 2nd, wins the whole match.
It can very well be the case,however,history says that it’s extremely hard to defeat Rafa in a GS when he takes the first set,we’ll see.
Rafa looks lethargic in this second set, not looking good. I think he’s tiring physically. He’s going to lose the second set, imo, unfortunately.
Started the set pretty well but his level has dropped and he’s definitely moving way slower than the first rounds,yeah probably feeling the tiredness after that grinding battle with Diego. Let’s hope he can turn the match in his favour on the 3rd set.
Poor from Rafa in the last 3 games. Down 5-3!!
Did Rafa lose concentration in his last 2 service games?
It’s like the second set of his R4 match all over again, too bad, breaks serve and then loses serve!
If Rafa continues to play like this he’s going to lose this match. It will be sad as he has good chances with Dimi gone.
No he won’t lose.
I am at work now so watching intermittently. Really hoping Rafa can win this in 4.
VR, Rafa may fight to win but even if he wins this match, I’m afraid he may not have enough energy for the much younger Edmund in the next round.
Rafa shouldn’t have lost serve so easily in the second set; he’s just wasting precious energy for nothing, just like in that 80 min second set vs Schwartzman when he was up a break a few times in that set!
These days, when Rafa is up a break, I’m not so sure that he would hold his serve to consolidate the break!
Rafa has just given Cilic some belief.
Vamos Rafa!
Rafa sesms to be tired out there. There is no pop in his shots. and the serve is a huge liability. Hope he recovers soon
Rafa just needs to look after his service games. The rest will follow.
Agree,holding his serve will be very important.
I think that long match va Schwartzman had done him in physically. He’s 31, no longer young and without competing or practicing for almost two months, his fitness level will be affected.
I really dislike Rafa having to face Schwartzman in this AO. His second set collapses are inexplicable, when he’s up a break!
I cant believe getting tired is the reason for faltering. He has not played any long match in first three rounds. One 4 setter cant just tire him that match. Rafa’s matches absolute duration is always going to be high, because of the time he takes.
It’s the humidity again, please!
Also his stamina would be affected when he couldn’t train for two months.
If he had been tiring in fourth set I can understand. Stop coming up with stupid interpretations.
Don’t call my interpretation stupid! The humidity can make you tired easily; Rafa said that himself.
Humikdity can tire everyone . Its the same for Nadal and Cilic. I dont see Rafa sweating profusely today. Its 20 degrees in Melbourne and humidity not bad either.
The main thing is that he’s not able to recover as fast as he did in his 20’s,plus the match with Schwartzman was a very demanding one on the physical side.
JMac has just said, they both average 25 seconds between points.
backhand slice sitting up too much. Either get more bite or don’t hit it… Marin’s forehand punishing it.
Looks like it’s going to be another 3-4 hours match!
Cilic is just hammering Rafa’s BH with CC FH. Also, Cilic played in equal humidity for same duration in his 4th round. Rafa is losing the rallies because he is too defensive.
Please, players handle humidity differently, Rafa has expressly stated that he hates humidity!
Why is Rafa defensive? Its just like in that Schwarzman match, when he said he played too defensively in the second set, but he did say he was affected by the humidity. Its when he lost the long second set that he started to turn aggressive.
In this match, he simply couldnt because Cilic after winning the second set, played with more confidence and played better. Rafa continued to serve poorly in the third set.
Rafa started the match in terrific form, but he has dropped and Cilic has increased a lot, particularly on serve and ROS. Both players are tiring a bit, but Cilic looks a bit fresher and more confident at this point.
Guys and girls- Cilic is a tough opponent, but I still have full faith that Rafa is winning this and then making the final.
I tend to agree, Kevin, but that’s mainly because I think Cilic will eventually crack under the pressure. If he keeps up this aggressive and consistent tennis, he will win.
Gold hold from Rafa,playing well from the baseline,3-2.
Amazing how Cilic, with his huge wingspan, cannot make the adjustment to handle Rafa’s wide serve to the deuce court.
Fedexal is funny, please take it easy.
I backed Rafa to win and I also backed the over 36.5 games just in case he doesn’t win.
I would like both picks to be successful.
https://tenngrand.com/daily-picks-2018-1/comment-page-155/#comment-291789
I want Rafa to win this match but honestly if I didn’t pick him to win, I would have wanted him to lose, please don’t get it twisted I like R. Nadal.
If Rafa wins this match, he might lose to K. Edmund or win in 5 or 4 sets, his next match won’t be easy if he wins.
Forehand a bit better in this set. Needs to get the penetration back on the CC backhand
Wow what a missed chance!!!
This is a great match, very exciting to watch.
Why is Rafa not hitting the angles but instead hitting to the middle of the courts?
He is having a hard time containing Cilic’s power.
Rafa better not lose this match, if he does I am going to deal with all Rafans on this site.
😠!
Again not exactly, Rafa is a bit afraid imo, thats why hes not taking risk and prefers to hit to the middle of the court instead of painting the lines.
Lucky, Rafa did the same thing when he played Diego Schwartzman.
He needs 2 player’s better.
play
Cilic is playing well. He might win this match also. His serve and returns are working well. Nadal needs to increase his power and aggression quickly that is when he starts draining winners from everywhere.
Nice service game from Cilic. Here we go with the tiebreak.
If you were betting live, which play will you pick?
Rafa cant change his pattern of play, he keeps hitting to Cilic’s BH which is his stronger wing. Come on Rafa, wins this set.
I’m not sure; his FH is looking pretty good too!
Not really, his FH tends to crack errors, like hitting into the net.
Wow. Easy miss for Cilic and that’s all it takes. I just hope Marin keeps it up and doesn’t fold.
Rafa takes the TB,what a nervy ending for this set,my heart’s about to explode!
Vamos Rafa!
😂😂😂.
Not at all convincing but somehow snags the set. Still dont think he can win the match playing like this. He seems strangely subdued today. As if he does not want to be there
Rafa takes the TB. Leads by 2 sets to 1.
Well done Rafa, one more set.
Rafa will lose his semi or finals, he can’t win the title playing like this.
Did Rafa get a warning in tie-break ? Did he lose his first serve at 4-3. BTW he should get aggressive now.
Yes!! Rafa finally wins the third set in a TB, what a dogfight!
Cilic is playing well the second and third sets, Rafa not so but still manages to win narrowly the third set. Now Rafa, time to step it up no matter what, please win this asap and conserve energy.
Hope the pressure gets to Cilic.
Vamos Rafa!
How is Cilic able to penetrate the court but not Rafa. Rafa mostly winning points on ufes by Cilic. If Cilic tightens up a little, Rafa stands no chance
Rafa’s backhand slice is the only shot he hasn’t been able to improve much over the years. It evolved initially but then no significant progress. Cilic is the sliced backhands today.
Rafa had very good BH slices during 2010 but it had regressed after that. He was able to keep it low, just barely over the net back then.
Rafa’s timing is off today, being mistiming his shots and his volleys.
Rafa playing from too far back, not getting depth on his shots.
4-1 Fourth set adv Cilic. If Rafa loses this set, I think hes going to lose this match. He normally was able to up his level at this stage but no so now.
MTO, not looking good.
Cilic deserves to be leading this set,he’s the one going for his shots,Rafa’s being very defensive and always waiting for Cilic errors,instead of being agressive. Luckily,Rafa took the 3rd set,otherwise the match could be finished by now.
I knew something is bothering him. He has just been lacking explosiveness in his legs. It was fine early in the match but has worsened. He normally struggles to generate good depth in these cases.
Rafa’s MTO:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUOQJN6X0AAS6u0.jpg
Rafa is injured. Hope the pill the doctor gave him will work in the 5th set.
Vamos Rafa!
Don’t think it is an injury. he just lacks fitness as he was not able to train much prior to the AO.
Rafa adds more wear and tear in his body by training too much. He need to change that.
Vamos!
The AO jinx strikes again!
How many times 🙁
Rafa has himself to blame; he served so poorly in the second set after breaking serve and then lost the set; if not he has already won this match in three sets! And thats how poorly he plays in this match even though Cilic is playing well.
Exactly, luckystar.
If Fred is going to take the title I don’t want him to beat Rafa doing it.
I’ve lost count of the number of times Rafa has been injured at the AO.
Rafa has to retire,he’s damaging himself more,clearly in severe pain.
I wish he would retire, rather than lose outright.
He retires, was not fit for long matches. He needs to become aggressive to finish is matches quickly.
He needs to hold serve after breaking his opponent’s serve!!! He would have won this in straight sets and might be able to save his knee.
Cut down on the training, Rafa.
Vamos!
Well done Cilic!
Rafa has himself to blame for losing the second set. The AO is not his, he’s fortunate to win it once. Just forget about the AO, and concentrates on FO and the USO. He’s jinxed at the AO. I guess he can’t last a whole season without getting injured, and his injury carried forward to the following season hence the AO was always the slam that he would suffer at. If he played well at the AO, he would then do poorly at Wimbledon.
luckystar AT 12:08 PM.
It wasn’t a knee problem why Rafa retired.
Harmstring injury?
Doesn’t matter whether it’s knee or groin injury; what I’m saying is, he getting injured in the previous season would affect the way he prepared for the next season and we saw it time and again during his career.
Cut down on the injuries and I’m sure he will play better or prepares better for the next season.
luckystar AT 12:24 PM
It matters what injury he has. Because reasons are different.
Nope, as long as he’s injured, he couldn’t train properly and hence couldn’t have good preparation for the next season and that’s all I’m saying.
luckystar AT 1:22 PM,
If Rafa had retired due to his right knee, it would mean that the knee hasn’t healed. It would have been very bad news.
He could not train properly due to his knee and at 31, his endurance is not the same. Humid conditions made it worse for him. Djokovic’s body was also struggling as he wasn’t able to train much either.
AO continues to be very unlucky. I agree that had he served better, he’d won set 2 and probably finished it off in 3.
Exactly VR, that’s the point! Had he not being injured, he would have a proper preparation for this AO, and he won’t be suffering like this. And yes, you get that right, humidity affects his conditions when he’s not that fit to start with.
Humidity really can make one tire easily, and if you’re not used to it, you’ll suffer more than the others. Rafa perspires a lot and that makes things worse for him.
He’s not 20 years old anymore, so he needs to conserve energy and not waste it unnecessarily playing defensively and running all over the place.
vamosrafa AT 12:23 PM,
Djoko’s right elbow was struggling, and not because he wasn’t able to train.
he had the trainer on court in his match against Ramos didn’t he? He had a few niggles here and there. It is natural for players to get muscular issues when they are subject to grand slam format right away without much training.
It wasn’t humid today, though. The conditions were fine. But because of his long injury lay off his 31 year old body was just not ready for the first slam without sufficient preparation. And then injuries like that strike…
Littlefoot, it’s cumulative effect. He was spent on Sunday after the almost four hours match in the humid conditions. He’s getting older now and he may not recover well physically from that match; he was playing ok in the first set today but started serving poorly and playing poorly after breaking Cilic in set two; perhaps he relaxed a bit after the break or he couldn’t hold on physically to continue playing well after the service break. I’m only guessing of course.
I mean we said it last AO that Rafa was physically affected by his long SF match with Dimi; he’s one year older now, not as match fit (due to ill preparation), so it’s possible that he’s physically affected that he lost focus and then lost his serve. He was playing poorly from then on by his usual standard, and that’s before he injured his thigh muscle (?),
I doubt he would have won the whole thing even if he won against Cilic. His body was not ready for such a hard grind.
Yep, watching the way he played, I had doubts that he would get past Edmund in the next round, but to lose by retirement instead of winning in straight sets (he really did have chances to win in straight!) and reaching the SF, was rather disappointing and not a good start to the new season.
Rafa just can’t step it up to play aggressive tennis the way he played on clay or during the Asian swing last season, but reverted back to playing from deep behind the baseline and running all over the place retrieving.
Lucky, he probably wasn’t prepared enough for the year’s first slam. I said yesterday that he pulled out of all previous events for a reason. But I would’ve preferred if he had just lost to Cilic. Retirement isn’t good at all…
As to exhos and Laver Cup. I don’t think we can blame that, since he had a lot of fun. But maybe in retrospect it was wrong that he didn’t wrap up the season last year after winning Beijing. He said after all that the knee problems started already in Beijing. But I guess, he couldn’t resist to keep the year-end No1 position – which is totally understandable, since this chance doesn’t come along every year. But once he wrapped it up he probably should’ve dropped out of the WTF completely in order to start the healing process earlier.
Fed has probably been smarter. He restricted himself and didn’t aim at the No1 position, as he well could’ve done by playing more events in 2017.
Now, he almost seems to be the last man standing at this year’s crazy AO. Right now he is hands down the man to beat.
Fed knew that his back won’t hold up well if he played more events. His back was already quite bad during Montreal, I doubt he felt great at Basel and WTF too.
Fed playing more events doesnt mean he would win more points, in fact it might make things worse for him if he injured his back in the process. People just assumed that had Fed played more, he would get the number one ranking, but they’re not Fed, they won’t know how Fed was feeling about his own body!
Fed is not stupid, if he thinks he has a good chance of winning more and getting to no.1 without risking his health, you think he won’t go and do it?
Fed is wiser than the other three big four guys, in that he won’t want to push his body to the limit. It’s unlike Rafa with his knee issues so often, and Djoko despite his elbow issue, still pushed on in 2016, and Murray with hip issue still played on until he couldn’t play anymore!
Well, that’s what I was saying, Lucky. Fed was wise to skip so many events and not aim at the No1 position, exactly because he probably knew that playing more wouldn’t guarantee him the pole position.
I think, Novak did well to continue despite his elbow problems – at least at first. He would never have completed his Novak Slam otherwise and never won the FO. But he probably should’ve stopped right after RG for a prolonged healing period. Instead he continued until the end of the 2016 season and deep into the 2017 season. That was probably foolish.
I agree, this was the last set, he shouldn’t have retired but he might have been in tremendous pain.
Stanley, that’s not what I meant at all. If Rafa didn’t feel like going on it was the right thing to do in order not to aggravate anything. I meant that a straightforward loss to Cilic would’ve been better to deal with for him and his fans than another injury.
littlefoot AT 1:14 PM,
I wouldn’t mind if Fed were even more wise and and skipped more events.
Lol!
The way Cilic plays, I have doubts that he can beat Fed in the final if it is Fed in the final.
Rafa is doing all the running tonight, not a good game plan. Fed won’t be playing this way for sure.
Rafa has to cut down on events played and cut down on the unnecessary exhos. He’s not listening to his own body and keeps on pushing it to the limit, he’s shortening his career by getting injury after injury and one day the body won’t be able to take it anymore.
luckystar AT 12:19 PM,
I don’t remember that Rafa has played “unnecessary exhos” in 2017 & 2018.
Laver Cup!
luckystar AT 12:37 PM,
Laver Cup was emotionally necessary.
Well, not so much emotionally, I think. Rafa had made a commitment to Roger to play the LC the year before and Rafa honors his commitments if it’s physically possible. He’s a man of his word and as unselfish as it’s possible to be and still be a top tennis player. But he may not feel the need to play LC this year since the thing got such a great start, largely thanks to Rafa.
I’m talking about in future! What’s done can’t be undone! I’d already said enough about the LC in 2017; all he had to do was to plan his schedule wisely last year to accommodate the LC, as he’s obliged to help Fed at the inaugural LC.
Going forward, he need not play the LC if he has played many tour matches during the season.
luckystar AT 1:17 PM,
Your comments (almost?) always sound as if Rafa has (almost?) always done everything wrong…
Yes it’s almost always! Remember 2010? He had that exho with Fed after his busy 2010. Results – no proper rest and recovery, suffered a thigh muscle pull during his QF match with Ferrer at AO2011.
luckystar AT 3:48 AM,
I think than the groin injury Rafa suffered at the 2011 AO had more to do with catching a virus in Doha than anything else. I remeber that he was sweating profusely during his AO matches.
How can a player be so unlucky at a particular event? Lets see if he can be ready for the clay season,doesn’t seem promising at all,it’s so sad 😖
I was busy just checked, Rafa retired my goodness, my over bet will be voided, while other matches will continue.
He should have finished the 5th set, this was the last set.
Fuck you and your shitty bets,you moron.
Are you sure that I am the moron?Calm down, calm down, just chill, I know that you are a useless sore loser in sports and probably in life but don’t act like a brainless Fool who lacks mat, it’s not the right thing to do.
Gaviria please try and hide your stupidity and useless mindset, it’s better that way don’t you think?
We do not need you and your irritating comments today. A true Christian has some sensitivity toward people.
Ramara are you talking to me?
If you are, can u tell me what I said that was wrong?
https://tenngrand.com/2018/01/22/australian-open-nadal-cilic-edmund/comment-page-4/#comment-291931
AO site says hip injury. 🙁 Whatever it was, it was bad. Rafa totally hates retiring, especially in a big match, no matter how far down he is. This was my worst AO nightmare.
Well done Ricky, you called it.
Commiserations to Rafans 🙁 sucks to see him go this way… He’ll come back strong soon 💪🏼
Hey, all Rafafans and all tennis fans. This are very bad news indeed. I have to say that I had a very bad gut feeling. Was just not sure how fit and ready Rafa was in this new season. We will see how bad this really is. But the AO remain Rafa’s unluckiest slam.
Good luck to Cilic and the rest of the remaining players. May they stay healthy!
264 slam matches and 2 retirements in Rafa’s career. The first one came in AO 2010 QF against Murray. He HATES to retire.
VR, I remember that match against Murray well. It was the start of his bad luck at the AO. In 2011h he was gunning for the Rafa-Slam and got sick before the event even started, and then lost totally exhausted to Ferrer in the quarters. I won’t recite the rest of his mishaps at the AO
because it’s too depressing.
Hopefully Cilic will make good use of his win, but I really can’t see anyone beating Fed now. But then again, the AO are crazy this year and nothing is written in stone.
One small consolation: it’s unlikely that Rafa would’ve won the title, at least not when facing Fed, even if he had won today.
Hopefully he won’t be too depressed and be ready for the clay season.
What’s next on Rafa’s calendar?
My sincere condolences to rafans, don’t worry R. Nadal will bounce back.
nadline10 AT 1:07 PM,
Rafa is going to play Acapulco.
A couple of days ago he said he won’t play in the Davis Cup in February (against Great Britain in Spain).
i haven’t have time to watch the match. Can someone fill me in when exactly the injury became apparent. He started out well after all…
Littlefoot this is for you-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nTbe9x0LpGA
Enjoy 😂.
You can’t resist having a dig at Rafafans, Stanley, can you?
I like your emoji with it’s many little sharp teeth, lol! Very approriate!
My own emojis are all reduced to a small crossed out rectangle for a while now.
I give up, i am dealing with…
I wasn’t laughing at you or rafans, I backed Rafa to win and I also backed the over games.
You said you didn’t watch the match and I posted some highlights for you to watch.
This is how you thank me, no problem, take care.
Hey, Stanley, you know exactly what I was talking about, lol! I really didn’t take your comment all that seriously. But please stay honest, you might’ve bet on Rafa but I’m quite sure you don’t mind that he’s out. Which is fine, btw. I don’t grieve if someone I’m not that interested in, goes down.
But you knew perfectly well that there was no way I would enjoy the highlights, which I could’ve easily found myself btw. I was looking for the kind of info which thinwhiteduke gave me.
But don’t worry, I’m not taking your comment that seriously.
😂👍!
I am honest but sometimes playful, that’s good right?
I don’t know when the injury happened, but after he won that 3rd set tie-break he looked strong. I don’t think the commentators on the broadcast I was watching picked up on anything before the MTO actually happened, nor did they later identify a moment/movement where something went wrong.
Rafa took the MTO after Cilic consolidated on his break halfway through the 4th set. He may not have been moving at 100% right beforehand, but to the untrained eye I couldn’t see anything. After the MTO in the 4th set he didn’t quite look 100%, but he didn’t really look out of the match until the 5th set began. By that point he was noticeably limping off one leg, like his side had totally seized up.
Thinwhiteduke, thanks for the wrap-up!
Cilic was lucky to get out of that match, I would’ve still had Rafa as favourite even at 2 sets all if he were fit, although it was a close-run thing.
One would now think that he’d beat Edmund, although it’s been another poor tournament for the seeds so far, I can’t say that any of them look that safe.
Well, Berdych looked pretty good so far, and while Fed didn’t exactly look invincible, he hasn’t lost a set, yet. Both haven’t really been challenged so far.
Maybe, the tennis gods decided that no one in a hideous pink outfit shall win! The Pink Panthers are all out now.
Yeah, Berdych has looked pretty consistent in a tournament (kinda like USO) where most seeds have lacked match-to-match consistency. Hasn’t beaten Fed in years & has a history of not being clutch, but he came very close last year, and he knows he can knock Fed out at slams.
For me, Fed has looked quite casual thus far, just getting the job done with 1 break sets, a tie-break here and there. Particularly if he doesn’t step it up, or he looks ahead to the semi/final, I don’t doubt that Berdych can beat him. And if he did beat Fed, much as I’m a Fed-fan who’d love to see him get his 20th, I’d be cheering Berdych on to win a major. Always felt bad for guys like Tsonga and Berdych who haven’t been able to grab a slam, but might’ve just managed in other eras.
I’d say it could still be anyone’s slam except Edmund or Sandgren, but even that’s risky given how the seeds have fallen…
I like your comment but I want R. Federer to win it all, he will soon retire, what was T. Berdych & Tsonga doing all this time?
They had countless of opportunities, if the win a slam I hope it’s the French Open.
There’s definitely no question that Berdych should be CHOMPING at the bit to get at Federer and win this title. If he can get through Fed, it will officially be his single greatest chance to win a major of his career. He didn’t stand a chance against Rafa in 2010, anywhere. But if you told him he would have to face either Cilic or Edmund in the final, and then either Chung/Sandgren in the semis if he can get by Federer, I would think he would come out playing against Fed like his life depends on it haha! He’s beaten the guy 2 times before at slams, once when Fed was #1 and favored to win the tournament. Berdych should be thinking, “that guy that I’ve beat before in majors is now pushing 37 years old? I have to win this!”
I’m not saying that Berdych will have that attitude, nor that it will definitely work. But Federer better come out firing against Berdych just like he did last year at AO. There is one thing that cannot be denied- for years now, particularly since Fed started playing his more aggressive game, Berdych has just brought the best out of Fed every time, especially at the majors. Fed crushed him at Wimbledon and AO last year, as well as at AO the year before. Berdych is really going to need to turn the clock back to stand a chance tomorrow, and frankly, he’s going to need Fed to not step his game up like he always does against Berdych in the last 5 years…
You’re right, Kev. Something about Berdych seems to bring out the best in Fed in recent years. Last year at AO, Berdych didn’t play badly, but just got crushed. I’m not sure Roger is capable of repeating that, but I guess we’ll find out soon.
Rafa’s presser transcript is up on the AO website. He really doesn’t know what the injury is exactly but he said “not the hip”. He seems to think it’s a muscle, with the pain high up on the thigh. He’ll get an mri tomorrow and tell us what he knows after that. He also said he “felt something” in the third set but no real problem until sometime in the 4th, he thought while chasing a drop shot.
Well, of course only the mri can tell, but if he pulled a muscle it might not be super serious. These things happen when preparation hasn’t been optimal. It’s super annoying of course since getting ready for the new season will now be even more delayed. If I remember correctly it’s now the fourth time at the AO that Rafa was struck down by a sudden injury in the latter stages of the tournament. His team should analyse why it’s always happening at the AO. At no other slam has he been plagued with these kind of injuries out of the blue. Although it could really be just bad luck…
Ok, tennis fans, I’m out for today. May the future winner really earn the title in a great match and not just be the last man standing.
littlefoot AT 2:30 PM,
Rafa’s new season has started. He has played 5 matches. The next tournament
in his schedule will start on February 26. Probably he planned anyway to rest after the AO.
Of course his season has started. But I doubt that he was fully prepared. That ongoing process might get delayed further now, and we have no way of knowing if he really will attend the next event. Hopefully his injury isn’t that serious and he will show up. It’s encouraging that his pesky knee wasn’t causing the problem.
littlefoot AT 2:50 PM,
You are right that he wasn’t fully prepared for the AO. Rafa has said several times that his knee problem delayed the start of his pre-season training. And that’s why he pulled out of Abu Dhabi and Brisbane tournament.
I think, Rafa will let us know tomorrow how long it will take to recover from his new (muscle ?) injury.
I tried to stay up to watch the match but fell asleep after Cilic won the second set. I woke up after it was over and checked my recording. It was so exciting to see Rafa win that third set TB, but then my worst nightmare happened with Rafa getting injured. It was so upsetting to see this happen to him yet again at this tournament.
I guess that the lack of match play did hurt Rafa. Last year he played a five setter against Zverev and then another five setter against Dimi. He managed to get through without injury and that’s the difference between having preparation and playing warm up tournaments and coming in cold.
I just hope that it’s nothing serious and Rafa can recover soon. Not the way we would have wanted him to start the season.
I feel for Rafa. It’s been one thing after another st the AO. We know that Rafa won’t retire unless absolutely necessary.
I hoped that Rafa could keep on going even though I knew it would be tough without sufficient preparation.
It’s not the news I hoped to wake up to.
🙁
Rafa’s a year older than he was last year. Doesn’t help.
Rafa’s AO woes have been mostly bad luck, I think. Well, the retirement vs Murray in 2010 was bad knees, which had plagued him throughout 2009. 2011 he was very unlucky and caught a virus in Doha. Toni felt that might have led to the quarterfinal groin injury vs Ferrer. 2012 he ran into peak Djokovic and played a “beautiful” match but lost. (Incidentally Rafa is very proud of that match still as well he should be – was one of the greatest hc matches ever). 2013 he intended to return from his long offtime due to his left knee problem but caught a virus late in Dec and could not play any warm ups so he pulled out of AO. 2014 he hurt his back during the warm up for the final. 2015 was a lost cause, suffering from a “mental injury” – he did well to make the quarterfinals. 2016 lost to Verdasco in a 5 setter in the first round! So he’s made four AO finals and lost 3 of them. Three of those finals were indeed “beautiful” matches and I’m sure the fourth one would have been save for his injured back.
In 2009 after that long painful semi vs Verdasco Toni told a despondent Rafa that this would be his best chance to win the AO. Prophetic? Maybe but only Rafa could have beaten Federer, and according to Navratilova’s commentary, OUTLASTED, Federer, who “lost his legs” in the 5th, while Rafa still stood strong.
My two favorites Nadal and Murray, are cursed at this GS, yuck everything about the AO sucks, the heat, the scheduling, thank god it will be over soon 🙁
^ Amen!
not a fan of Sandgren?!?
Actually, I’ve become something of a Chung (King) fan. Nothing against Tennys (who???) Sandgren though.
you have nothing against Tennys????
I am a fan of Sandgren and his story. Seems like a really chill dude. As for the tweets, I’m not sure what to think. I think he is being over scrutinized about some of the stuff at least. He can believe in what he wants and as a tennis fan, I am really just focusing on his tennis and admiring how hard he has had to work to get here through playing challengers and futures to getting to where he is now. He is very humble as well in his reactions after big wins and his interviews. So I gotta say I’m a fan of Tennys.
suit yourself
Thanks NNY 😉
http://www.straitstimes.com/sport/tennis/retirement-so-painful-for-an-aching-rafa-nadal
Alison, the Pink Curse struck again! All the Pinkies are gone by now, and there were quite a few outstanding players amongst them. Nike’s designers sure haven’t pleased the tennis deities, lol!
Maybe, we should support the guys with the goofy glasses and the funny names now!
Lol! He doesn’t have a funny name.
#Pinkcurse
#Peptobismol
Alison don’t worry, Rafa lost in the finals of AO last year but ended 2017 as #1, he is still #1 in terms of ranking and he will bounce OK.
Everything will be fine, he might even win 2 GS this year just be hopeful.
Rafa won the USO last year in pink so I don’t think it’s bad luck. He ended 2013 as #1 and he didn’t play the AO.
Ha, Nadline,that was a much more becoming shade of pink, almost purplish – and he didn’t even wear it in the final!
But honestly, I’m not supersticious. I just totally disliked this year’s AO attire, the grey was kind of sickly, too. And I didn’t just dislike Rafa’s outfit. Nick’s and Dimi’s wasn’t any better. What was Nike thinking? Just my personal opinion…
And Nadline, Rafa had bad luck at the 2010 AO, too, and went on to have the best season of his career! Of course, he’s 8 years older now, so I don’t expect miracles. But as long as the injury isn’t too serious the season can still turn out ok. Rafa has learned to deal with this kind of mishaps quite well. I wish, though, that Moya had an easier start, now that he is the sole coach.
As long as Rafa doesn’t get injured during the season, ends the season well, he’ll have his chances to win the AO again. Rafa needs to play aggressive tennis from the get go regardless of who is his opponent, he has to conserve his energy and not grinding under the AO extreme weather conditions.
His inexplicable collapses in set twos is a concern; it always happened during set two, twice when he was up a break or more, he gave back the advantage, that to me had led to his downfall at the AO this year. Just imagine he winning set two in his R4 match, he would have won in straight sets thus saving much time and energy on court and saving his body. The same thing happened in the QF match, winning set two would probably lead him to win in straight sets too. I’m not sure he would injure his thigh or pulled his muscle when he would finish the match in straight sets.
Rafa had a good chance of the title here at the AO should he not being dragged into a grinding war by his opponent(s); however, he probably was ill prepared for this AO, hence decided to play more defensively and hence he had to run a lot (I said it earlier, playing against Cilic, he had to run a lot, as Cilic would control with his serve and big ground strokes).
I hope his injury is not major, and with proper rest and work out, he’ll get back on track soon. Rafa is one guy who needs to practice and practice to feel confident, that may be the work attitude Toni inculcate into him from young.
littlefoot AT 7:53 PM,
C.Moya is not Rafa’s sole coach. Francis Roig will continue to accompany Rafa during the tournaments. True, Moya will replace U.Toni, CM is coaching Rafa when the latter is in Mallorca. Besides being Rafa’s coach, Moya is the Technical Director of Rafa’s academy, it means that he is (almost) always there.
littlefoot AT 7:48 PM,
I’m afraid you are under the influence of Fedfans’ comments (on different websites) who have constantly reminded of Rafa’s pink shirt he wore during the 2009 FO. They have been so overwhelmingly happy about Rafa’s loss (for almost 10 years!) that they remind of it in whatever context.
I’ll support Berdych! The poor guy, I do feel this may be the time for him to win a slam, with Djoko and Rafa (his two nemesis) gone. Fed is standing in his way but if Berdych wants to win a slam, then he has to man up, at least mentally, to deal with Fed.
Berdych is playing very well whilst Fed isn’t tested so far playing guys not ranked inside top 30. Berdych has the weapons to beat Fed if Fed is not playing well.
I’m hoping for a Berdych AO champion here, the others remaining can wait.
T. Berdych can win the French Open not AO, Roger Federer will increase his GS titles.
Stanley, I’m feeling this friendliness coming from you more in 2018… Thank you.
👍😉.
Littlefoot lol but im a Brit so Kyle for me first, then a guy with goofy glasses 😉
I like his goofy glasses lol, it fits him.
That’s fine Alison, especially since only Kyle’s skin is pink!
Thankyou Stanley, but im fine ….
U R welcome Ali, but how can you say you are fine.
Are you not disappointed a little?
Just saw the 4th set and conclusion of the match. First thing is, congratulations to Cilic on an awesome match! I thought Rafa came out firing on all cylinders, serving better than I’ve seen in quite awhile and spraying winners all over the show. I thought if he had been able to keep up that level he could have won the tournament.
But Cilic absorbed that first set, and upped his game in the 2nd. Rafa couldn’t maintain his 1st set level, and by the 3rd set Cilic was dictating play. He probably should have won the TB but for an easy miss on a point that he had basically won. And he continued in that vein during the 4th set. Anyway, all the talk about Rafa’s injury shouldn’t obscure the fact that Cilic played a great match and deserved the win.
I didn’t think Rafa should have played this tournament before in started because of his knee. Although it doesn’t seem that his knee is the current issue, it would be surprising if it didn’t contribute in some way to his leg injury.
Along with Novak, Murray, and Stan, what Rafa’s injury makes clear is just how much Federer is an exception to the rule that male tennis players inevitably decline around the age of 30. Nadal had a great season last year, of course, but that was after suffering through a few injury-plagued seasons in his late 20’s. And it will become harder to grind through B05 matches going forward, with the likely exception (maybe for the next 2 years if he is healthy) of RG. In my opinion, he should definitely sit out now until the clay season starts.
Joe, so far we don’t know, how serious the injury really is. I tend to agree that the enforced break because of his knee contributed to this indirectly, because the preparation was insufficient. But if it is only an injured muscle – that can always happen. In this case it wasn’t wrong to play. He made it into the quarters after all and almost reached the semis. Rafa had knee troubles since his early 20s. Therefore it’s hardly anything which has to do with his decline. Of course it becomes more difficult each year to come back again. And believe it or not – Fed isn’t immune to age decline. No one is. He just played wisely far fewer tournaments than in earlier years. He manages his very body very well. I expect him to do the same this year. Thus he can manage his Achilles heel which is his back.
I agree with much of this. The point I would emphasize is that it’s much harder to come back after 30 from injury, and much easier to re-injure and develop new injuries. Fed took a full six months off in 2016, and even then his back flared up repeatedly in the latter half of 2017. For him, Montreal was the tournament he should have skipped.
With Nadal’s age and style of play, I think scheduling a heavily reduced season, built around the clay court and latter HC season, makes sense. As I said, I think he should sit out until the CC sesaon begins. After RG, I would seriously consider a lengthy break until Cinci (skipping grass entirely), and then try to play through WTF. He would then be relatively fresh for AO in 2019.
Joe, right now I feel Rafa should avoid the AO like the plague, lol! While he won it once in a great final, it has really developed into his unlucky slam. And even after he won it in 2009 his troubles started soon after and he lost early at the FO because of sore knees.
I truly wonder, though, if it is all bad luck or if some of these injuries developed because the downtime between the WTF and the AO is too short for many players – especially for those who routinely have been active until the very end of the season, which was followed up for some by the Davis Cup final. The injury theme has been one of the most discussed subjects at this year’s AO because so many were injured already, which is strange since it is the first big tournament of the season. It has often been criticized that the down time is too short and that the AO should start later or the season should end earlier. The AO have been moved around quite a bit, but there has never been an ideal date. In the 70s it was fairly common for many players simply not to attend. That’s why some big stars like Borg have never won them.
Rafa has always had difficulties to finish the season in one piece, but since he always qualified for the WTF he tried to be present if possible. Last year wasn’t different, and I think it was a bad idea not to wrap up the season after the Paris Indoors, when he had secured the No1 position, and start proper recuperation a few weeks earlier.
The more I think it through the more I feel that his AO misfortunes aren’t solely caused by bad luck. It’s striking how well he did last year after his lengthy break which gave him lots of time for adequate preparations and let to a great season overall.
But since he felt healthy I can’t fault him for giving it a shot, even if winning it was unlikely. The mistake was not wrap up last season earlier.
Rafa’s early demise has been predicted ever since he hit the tour, and yet he’s still here, having had one of the most successful careers of all time. Therefore he can’t have done all that many things wrong after all. But if he wants to continue successfully for a few more years he needs to cut back more, as Fed did last year. Skipping Wimby might indeed be a good idea, especially since the clay court season tends to be always long and taxing for him. His best shots a more slams are probably the FO and the USO this late in his career because the surface suits him best.
Rafa is injury prone so as he gets older, he getting injured is not something alarming. But, do not underestimate Rafa’s will to compete and to win, that’s enough motivation for him to come back and wins some more titles.
He has to cut back on his schedule, there’s no need for him to play 18 or 19 events when he’s now allowed to pick and choose what to play. To me, it’s always his scheduling issues that’s getting him into trouble, I mean playing at Rome last year was unnecessary, perhaps on hindsight, skipping Rome might save him some energy and so he could play at Queens and got better prepared for Wimbledon.
I doubt Rafa wants to skip any slam, so I think he won’t skip Wimbledon. He should then cut down on other events, like Miami, Rome, Acapulco, Brisbane, just stick to 14 or 15 events (if he qualifies for WTF).
littlefoot says AT 11:03 PM: “…I think it was a bad idea not to wrap up the season after the Paris Indoors, when he had secured the No1 position, and start proper recuperation a few weeks earlier.”
===
Rafa began a specific treatment on his (right) knee immediately after his withdrawal from Paris and his doctor (A.Ruiz Cotorro) accompanied him at the WTF in London. He played at the WTF only one match. I don’t think that playing at the WTF had a big influence on his healing process.
https://www.elespanol.com/deportes/tenis/20171104/259474342_0.html
Nah, not this season. If his injury is minor, he should play at IW/Miami to get match play before the clay season begins. He’s still fit at 31/32 so he’s not going to skip Wimbledon. He wasn’t playing badly at Wimbledon last year, he lost 15-13 in the fifth set to a red hot player Muller in the fourth round. In fact he was playing better than the past few years on grass, it’s just that he didn’t play warm up events on grass so was ill prepared.
Perhaps he should skip Acapulco this year, and if he plays well at MC, Barcelona and Madrid, then skips Rome. He should play a warm up event on grass before Wimbledon; thereafter stop playing the Laver Cup, and if he plays the Asian swing, then skips Basel and Paris or plays Paris if he’s still fit. He would then play only 15 to 16 events, not a lot for a 32 year old.
If Rafa is to play till he’s 35 or 36, then going forward, he should cut down the number of events played year after year, the HCs of Acapulco and Miami, and Asian swing or indoor events, and plays one few clay Masters; may also skip grass totally if his knee can’t cope anymore.
Joe, Fed also have his injury woes, you conveniently forget his back injury during 2008, 2009, 2013 and 2017.
Fed is smart in his scheduling, don’t you see? He’s playing fewer and fewer tournaments each season. Do you remember Fed at 27/28, ie 2008/2009 when he was already having physical issues? Fed was having back problem during TMC Shanghai in 2008, called for MTO, got his back treated and then lost to Murray in the RR stage. He was shanking all over the place during 2009, got frustrated, hit and broke his racket on court during his match vs Djoko in Miami. He skipped Dubai that year because of back issue. He was fortunate to take advantage of Rafa’s injury in 2009 to get his channel slams and the no.1 ranking while Djoko and Murray weren’t ready to challenge him yet.
It’s not like Fed was fit and healthy all along; in 2010, he injured his thigh during the grass season, lost to Berdych at Wimbledon giving injury as an excuse and got bombarded by the media (and of course by non Fed fans!).
To me Djoko is more fit and healthy than Fed despite his breathing issues earlier on in his career. Djoko hasn’t any major or even minor injury issues, maybe just a twitch here or there – ankle and wrist, but nothing major. He only has this elbow issue when he turned 29; Djoko’s movements around the court is as fluid as Fed’s and even quicker. He’s as quick as ever coming back from half year absence; so if his elbow is fully healed, I have no doubt he can play till his 35 or 36 and playing well even when not dominating, as long as he plans his schedule well.
luckystar says AT 2:46 AM: “Fed is smart in his scheduling, don’t you see? He’s playing fewer and fewer tournaments each season.”
===
Fed hasn’t played fewer and fewer tournaments each season. After 2003, he has played fewer tournaments only in 2016 (6-month injury layoff ) & 2017 (skipped the clay season due to his age):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUSJSdOX0AAhZpp.jpg
Speaking of his ‘smart’ scheduling, this has been just part of pro-Fed campaign.
Augusta, I value your input and updates on Rafa’s situation. But coud we please stop talking about pro-Fed campaigns whenever anybody mentions something positive about Fed and something critical concerning Rafa? I don’t care if there are pro-Fed campaigns or not. Fact is that Fed has his own physical problems and he seems to handle them well. Otherwise he woudn’t be where he is right now in his career. For example it was a very smart decision to skip the whole clay season in order to preserve energy for Wimbledon, since he knew that he probably wouldn’t win a lot anyway.
As Lucky said, Rafa definitely needs to cut out some tournaments in order to make it through the season. I woudn’t mind if he skips Wimby, but I doubt he will, since he loves all slams. Therefore he needs to skip elsewhere. We will see if and how that will happen.
On a more positive note. apparently the injury isn’t all that serious. It was the right decision to play the AO and get some matches under his belt. He needed to start his season somewhere after all. He wasn’t match sharp, which may have triggered the injury, but he made it into the quarterfinal and defended his No1 position for now. That’s not an altogether negative outcome of his AO campaign.
littlefoot AT 8:12 AM,
Hmm. I have read comment sections of some other websites and noticed Fedfans’ daily propaganda.
I don’t doubt that, Augusta. But we can form opinions by what we observe ourselves. Like him or not,Fed must’ve done something right. Otherwise he wouldn’t be where he is now – all the favorisms in the world couldn’t do that. Same with Rafa. He got a lot of things right in his career and over the years he proved many naysayers wrong. But that doesn’t mean he couln’t do certain things better. I’m sure he will adapt his schedule to the needs of his body more. He has to as he gets older.
littlefoot AT 9:16 AM,
Rafa doesn’t consider Fed his role model, contrary to what some people think.
Rafa on Dec.17: “My calendar in 2017 was the right one for me, pretty much playing only the mandatory amount, except a tournament here or there picked for preparation. My idea for 2018 is similar and maybe I’ll play a couple more [in the Spanish-language version of the article: ‘fewer’] tournaments. That’s what I’m thinking, but it depends on results.”
https://en.as.com/en/2017/12/25/other_sports/1514197115_364069.html
Stanley yeah course im dissapointed, but its not something i will dwell on for too long, its not the end of the world for me, i have amazing friends, i lead an amazing life, tennis isnt the be all and end all for me ….
Rafa will return fresh for Indian wells/Miami and the clay court season. As close as Federer is, I don’t see him overtaking Rafa in 2018 and if he does it won’t be until the last half of 2018.
The last time Rafa retired from a grand slam, he went on to win the other three that year
Olly, that was eight years ago! I don’t expect that the same will happen – very unlikely. But if the injury isn’t too serious Rafa might still do well this year.But fans shouldn’t be unrealistic. We don’t even know the diagnosis. Let’s wait and see…
I agree that we have to wait and see what the disgnosis is with Rafa. However, no way am I going to second guess his decision to play the AO. He knew that he was going in without any match play. But the knee was healthy and he wanted to give it a shot. I am okay with him doing it. There is always risk in sport.
I am not going to second guess Rafa at all. Even Fed has not always made the best decisions when it comes to playing. He played Montreal and his back gave out. He lost to Zverev in the final. Then he was unable to play at Cincy. Done if his fans thought he should have skipped Montreal and played Cincy. Also, Fed skipped the entire clay season and still had back problems. So there is no sure formula for avoiding an injury, especially as you get older.
Rafa wanted to play and he did. Now all we can hope is that this injury is not serious. Then he can recover and move on. At least it’s not the knee. But as long as Rafa is playing, there will be risk. For him the rewards have been well worth it. I also do not think that Rafa should fit it out until the clay season. That’s going too long without playing. But I hope that Rafa and his team can figure out how to manage his schedule to maximize his chances at success and staying healthy.
Sorry, autocorrect typos in my last post.
SOME of Fed’s fans thought he should have skipped Montreal and played Cincy. *
I do not think Rafa should SIT it out until the clay season. *
No need to correct, we can figure it out 😉👍.
Agreed NNY!
There’s no regret in playing the AO; he’s physically fit to play, maybe just not match sharp. To me the regret is he not getting the job done quick enough when he should, hence getting himself into trouble. Perhaps that’s because he’s not match sharp and so tends to play more defensively when he should be aggressive instead.
I hope this injury is not a major issue and sincerely hope that Rafa and his team will plan his schedule well and cuts down on number of events played this year for a start.
Lucky,
Yes I agree with you! As you said, he was not match sharp. That was because he had no match play before the tournament. I am sure that Rafa knew it was going to be tough. But he decided to do it because the knee was healthy and he wanted to play. He is still #1 and that is an accomplishment.
I think you make a good point about Rafa not being match sharp causing him to play more defensively.
I think they need to cut down on the schedule but I do not think Rafa should sit it out until the clay season.
If he can recover in time, he should be playing IW and/or Miami to get match plays and so be well prepared for clay. It’s come next year that he should consider skipping some of the HC plus Rome event (I strongly feel that he shouldn’t play at Rome, unless he’s willing to skip Madrid or MC).
Couldn’t see the match but reading all your comments gave me a pretty good idea of what was going on with Rafa. The good thing was that he decided to retire when dealing with injury instead of being ,morally right’ to stay in the match risking more serious issues…hope it’s just a muscle and not the knee…
More or less we all knew Rafa was not physically ready for this AO, but I wouldn’t ever question his decision to play especially when saving his No1 spot on the way! That’s enough of the accomplishment!
I saw a couple of games and did not think Cilic was impressive. It was more Rafa falling apart that made Cilic look good! Could be wrong though since I did not watch the whole thing.
Whatever happens in this AO I only have one wish: please God save us from another whimp episode of Cilic in the potential final with Fed!
Amen! I hope Cilic learned something about how to handle injury and disappointment with dignity and class instead of boohoo-ing all over the court, but I doubt it.
Ramara- The difference between that Cilic Wimby final and this Rafa retirement was that Cilic was in a bad place and hampered mentally and physically from he get-go. If Cilic had been up 2 sets to 1 on Federer and then started to have problems, he wouldn’t have been nearly as mentally screwed as he was that day.
Also, what do you have against players who can’t hold in their emotions? Have you ever stepped on Centre Court for your first Wimbledon Final, and felt the pressure of that? When absolutely nothing is working for you, and you’re feeling all that pressure, how do you know you wouldn’t react the way Cilic did? Some players are able to hide their emotions better than others. Have you ever tried to hold it in when you absolutely couldn’t? It’s pretty much impossible…
From what I saw, it seemed that for first two sets, Cilic was legit making his presence felt, but after that abut midway through third was when Rafa started showing the signs of injury I think. Cilic is quite lucky Rafa got injured. I don’t know if Rafa for sure would have won either way but I sure wouldn’t have bet against him if he had stayed healthy through the whole thing. I reckon it might have ended up with Rafa in five but we’ll never know. I think Cilic deserves credit though. It’s not like he would have for sure lost or rolled over if Rafa was healthy, and he was hitting huge as he has been throughout the tournament. I would say he’s got the best chance at the title of anyone left besides Roger.
Sorry I meant to say I don’t know if Rafa would have won if he wasn’t injured. Don’t know why I said “either way” lol
Benny, I saw the whole match. In my opinion, Rafa hardly showed any signs of injury until the very end. What he showed signs of was fatigue (totally normal), probably from under-preparation.
He also showed signs of struggling to contain a more powerful opponent who was pushing him around in many of the rallies and increasingly on form.
Far from obvious that even a completely healthy Nadal would have won.
Totally disagree about Cilic’s play. From the middle of the second set he played terrific, and anyone who thinks he “hardly did anything” besides fist-pump doesn’t know a thing about tennis.
Here’s the classy thing for a Nadal fan to do (see, e.g. Lucky above): Congratulations to Cilic for playing a great match and a well-deserved win!
Which it was.
I agree with everything Joe Smith said today/yesterday, Joe is making a lot of sense, M. Cilic played well but I wanted Rafa to win.
I didn’t have time to watch the whole match (on replay ) but while I sympathise with Nadals injury , Cilic did play really well, the commentators said he negated Rafas topspin and used it to his advantage.The night conditions probably helped Cilic as well ,as the ball would bounce lower.
But, I don’t think even this Cilic would have won this match a few years ago when Rafa was at his physical best and therefore much more confident.
I was really looking forward to Dimitrov-Nadal rematch, but what a cracker we have instead, Ill be rooting for Kyle.
Maybe, Al. OTOH, the Cilic of 2014 USO would have beaten any version of Nadal on HC, ever. If Nadal wasn’t at his very best yesterday, neither was Cilic, even though he played very well.
A player with Cilic’s power, when he’s completely on song, is Rafa’s (and many other players’) nightmare opponent.
Yeah, Cilic in 2014 would have beaten anybody on HC .
And , goes for other players as well, Edmund if he plays like today, who knows !
Agree, Edmund could definitely beat Cilic if he plays like he did against Dimi. Hell, he could win the tournament if he serves and hits FHs like he did.
Nah, the Rafa of USO2010 version with his big serve was enough to deal with Cilic of USO2014 version, my opinion. A Djoko of AO2016 SF and F version was enough too! Just because he beat Fed in straight sets at USO2014 doesn’t mean he would be able to beat a Rafa or a Djoko at their best on the HCs!
Sorry Big Al, Cilic only played well from second half of second set onwards, if not he won’t get broken and lost his serve in the second set and lost the first set. Rafa was playing ok not great to start with, that’s how I saw it.
It’s after Cilic even the score in the second set that he upped his game, because he sensed his chances to level the match when Rafa’s serve got broken. From then, Cilic started to play more aggressively, stepping inside the court, approached the net very often while pushing Rafa well behind the baseline.
It’s Rafa’s tenacity that helped him won the third set when he wasn’t even playing well. Cilic OTOH, was playing better and better as he became more confident, sensing Rafa’s level going down.
That’s just what you said when Fed won Wimby 2007 in the fifth, Rafa got injured and Fed sensed his moment !
Big Al, so???
Thanks for the quick response, as usual!
Sorry, just meant theres little or no credit to his opponent for getting through a tough match.Its always Nadals injured, lacking in confidence or just not playing well!
Big Al, you should look at the Fed fans responses each time Fed lost too!
You think the players are robots, that they couldnt feel whether their opponent’s level had dropped or had risen out there?
I tell you what, Rafa is one great player who can sense the moment and hence knows when to turn into attacking mode and ups his own level to get the edge over his opponent.
Are you doubting Fed’s ability to sense Rafa’s vulnerabilty in that Wimbledon fifth set? Or in this case Cilic sensing thats the right moment to up his aggression when his opponent faltered a little?
Big Al you’re honestly right there. Rarely do I see after a Rafa loss a Rafan giving his opponent much credit at all. Some do of course but many do not. I mostly just see some excuse about his fitness or his scheduling and how he should be better at scheduling like Roger and all that. If Cilic had won this match in five sets with Rafa showing no signs of injury, most Rafans here would have immediately talked about how he played too defensive or wasn’t totally healthy heading in to the event, even if they are talking about how fit he seems or how aggressive he is playing the match before!! It’s like his fans expect Rafa to be perfect and gotta point out any minor flaws in his game. You know what Wilander, a highly accomplished former player, said? That Cilic’s aggression caused Rafa to run so much that he got injured!! I’m obviously not saying that’s true but no Rafan would ever admit that it was Cilic who forced Rafa into an injury with an all out attack even if they believed it or it was actually the truth. There are still lots of rafans who don’t make so many excuses or criticize Rafa so much after his losses or injuries but there are quite a few who do.
😂😂🤣🤗😋😂!
‘… Rafa losing? Nah, I saw that coming after watching the Schwartzman match. He’s simply being too defensive and got caught into a long grinding match, asking for trouble. His fitness was in question too when he said the humid conditions out there bothered him.’
Quite a lot of reasons he lost there!
So? You tell me which is not a valid one? Rafa said it himself he’s bothered by the humidity, so you don’t believe him?
Do you think ‘ he has mono, he’s old, past his prime’ not being a lot of reasons Fed lost his matches??
See Big Al, you can’t argue about my reasoning about players sensing their moments right? So you turn to finding excuses…..
See, I have my reasons and logic for posting what I posted, unlike some of you here!
I don’t make excuses like that, not even Feds mono.
Interesting if Rafa (or Fed, Nole etc) will ever simply get beat by a better player,’sensing their moment ‘ implies they would never have won if their opponent wasnt injured or whatever!
Yeah , at least you do give reasons, if a little bit biased!
Excuse me, sensing the moment is not necessary about injury; Cilic sensing the moment to up his level in set two when Rafa’s level gone down, but that’s not due to injury – Rafa wasn’t injured yet, at that time. Read carefully, I said Cilic up his level in set two too, after breaking back to level the set at 3-3.
Do you not see yourself being biased here? Why each time we explain about this or that, it’s about being biased in favor of Rafa?? If Cilic came out all guns blazing and won the match in straight sets, no question, he was obviously the better player and I’m sure most if not all Rafa fans would acknowledge that.
However, in this match, there were ebbs and flows, Rafa was obviously the better player for the first one and a half sets, and Cilic from then onwards, so clearly there were ebbs and flows during the match. The players level fluctuated during the match, so it’s perfectly reasonable that they being the top players, were able to sense that and took advantage.
Why must you take it so negatively?? Now don’t you think Fed knew of Berdy’s vulnerability when serving for the set, and so Fed took his chances and started upping his own level and then Berdych faltered? Berdych was missing so many first serves when serving for the first set! Isn’t that a logical explanation for Fed winning the set when most of the time he was trailing?
Ls,’sensing their moment’ could also be simply a great player raising their game when needed,nothing to do with their opponents ‘weakness’.
That’s a strange comment from Wilander, but I did read similar on here,Nadal was pushed so hard in Madrid 2009 that he was injured for months after.
Other thing Wilander said was that Fed was actually better this year than last,because he was more confident.
I’m responding to your comments because you do have good analysis but still tainted with bias .A lot of fans have their favourite player and that’s it.
Big Al, but in Fed’s case, it’s him sensing Berdcyh’s weakness, you can’t deny that even though you are trying to! Cilic may also be sensing Rafa’s weakness then when Rafa lost his serve in set two, so Cilic raised his level thereafter. Not that difficult to understand right??
Big Al, you speak for yourself, that you’re biased, a biased Fed fan!
And, Wilander is talking rubbish about Fed; clearly Fed was hitting his BH better last year, hardly missed that one whilst he was hitting loads of errors during this AO. Not forgetting, who had Fed beaten this AO, compared to last year? Only a better version of Berdych now than last year; last year he beat Kei and Stan, both top five players! Both of them were playing well and that’s why they went five sets with Fed but they were unfortunate to get injured during the matches.
Don’t always quote Wilander, his thoughts and opinions always sway this way or the other; he’s consistently being inconsistent!
You know what? I would hope that Cilic acts in a more professional way than he did when Rafa had to retire due to being injured. After all, this is the guy who had that painful toe blister in the Wimbledon final with Fed and broke down in front of everyone. Why? Because he couldn’t play his game and knew he couldn’t win. So where was his compassion for Rafa?
Cilic had nothing to do with Rafa getting injured! That is about as ridiculous as anything I have heard! Wilander is a well known critic of Rafa. He’s been doing it for years. So anything he says is clouded with his own bias.
Some people here seem to have forgotten that Rafa was up two sets to one in that match! Yeah Cilic was really taking it out of him. It was a spirited contest with both guys having their moments. No one can know for sure who would have won if Rafa had not gotten injured. No one here is a psychic. You can have an opinion. That’s about it.
Rafa did come into the AO without any match play. Fact. It was a risk. He knew it, but he wanted to play. It’s not an excuse to speak the truth. The match with Diego probably had more to do with any subsequent injury that Rafa had.
I really dislike when anyone generalizes about Rafa fans. Don’t presume to speak for us with one voice. It’s not about excuses. It’s about facing the fact that it was going to be an uphill battle for Rafa in this tournament. He was right to stop and not continue and risk further injury.
I just wish that Cilic had remembered his own experience and had demonstrated some sportsmanship and decency instead of celebrating like he actually won the match. He got the win by way of retirement. It still is a win in the record books. He’s in the semis.
There is no reason to trash Rafa’s fans. We have had a lot of experience with his injuries and especially his bad luck at the AO. I know that I will deal with it and this is not the end of the world.
I disagree with Wilander’s comment as well. Wasn’t the point I was trying to get across and NNY for the record I don’t see you as a Rafan who is always making excuses for him or anything. You’re one of the coolest rafans on the site with some of the best insight of anyone
No,and I agree.We’ve all got to be tennis fans first then have our favourites.
👍 Very well put, NNY! Benny and Big Al should pay attention to your post here!
If anything, it’s the die hard anti-Rafa Fed fans who are the ones who are biased against Rafa and his fans, and would always big up Rafa’s opponents once they beat Rafa, without even wanting to know why Rafa has lost and they straight away jump into the conclusion that the Rafa fans are making excuses. Such, is the negativity these people have against the Rafa fans, and it’s as if Fed fans themselves don’t make excuses for Fed’s losses, and many times unreasonable ones – he’s old, he has past his prime, he has mono when he lost in 2009!
You know what, when I said Fed didn’t play too well vs Berdych when he had many DFs in a game, was overhitting and netting some of his shots, uncharacteristic if Fed was playing well, some of his fans jumped at me, as if Fed was so
… so perfect that he could do no wrong! And yet, they’re here criticizing Rafa fans for making up excuses!
Okay I just want to apologize for something pretty important. I had NO CLUE that Cilic celebrated after the win, honest to god. I was very sad to see the way the match ended and turned off the TV before I could have seen the celebration. I apologize for not really acknowledging that or mentioning how stupid of Cilic that is to celebrate after a champ like Rafa has to retire like that. I understand if you believe that I was okay with Cilic’s celebration, considering I hadn’t mentioned it or anything. Trust me I think Cilic is pretty lucky Rafa retired as I said a few days ago on here and I did not big up Cilic either. You don’t big up a guy much if he wins off of retirement as it is. I just initially thought there should be some more credit given his way, but honestly, I now understand why any fan of Rafa would be hectic to give Cilic any credit or props because that is rude and uncool of Cilic to do what he did. He should have taken the win with the utmost humility like Rafa would.
When Cilic succumbed mentally in Wimby final , Fed was pretty muted in celebration and speech. Even if he was pretending, a lot to learn for Cilic from big 3 who sense occasion well.
I didn’t know this either.Bad form Cilic!
Cilic and Rafa had a lot of bad blood . Cilic was given time violation and he was upset that Rafa was not handed
time violation when his avg time to serve was little higher than Rafa.
In hindsight all big players get advantage. Fed with scheduling and Rafa regarding time violation thing.Cilic is not absolutely wrong when he accuses Rafa.
I was responding to Natashao at 10:00 PM, his/her comment is funny especially the end.
Natashao if you haven’t watched the highlight/match here you go-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nTbe9x0LpGA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lau5aRvvpeY
Yes, it is correct that Fed did not go overboard out of respect for the fact that Cilic was unable to play his game. I thought that was very gracious of Fed. It was the right thing to do. Cilic did not retire in that match. He did what Rafa has done at times. He just gutted it out even though he knew he had no chance.
I am not trying to be mean in bringing up how Cilic cried on court. I don’t like to see anyone have to go through that. It is not anything I would wish on any player.
I did not bring up what Cilic did after Rsfa retired. I understand if someone did not see it and did not realize what happened. But I saw it and won’t forget it.
Cilic played well in the match. I only wish that the match could have played out to its conclusion. But I was extremely upset to see how Cilic reacted. He could have waited until Rafa was off the court if he wanted to celebrate.
I was disappointed because Cilic went through it himself. But Fed was class personified in victory. I would have hoped that Cilic could have given Rafa the same consideration that Fed gave him.
So true, Cilic should have handled that so much differently.
It’s true that Cilic wasn’t impressive in the first two sets; Rafa even was a break up in the second set, but lost serve immediately allowing Cilic back into the match. To me it’s more of Rafa’s own undoing in the second set, had he won that set, I doubt Cilic would become so confident in the third set ( and onwards).
Cilic played a good game plan by coming to the net very often, not wanting to rally with Rafa. Rafa as usual returned from way behind the baseline and so allowing Cilic time to move to the net to intercept Rafa’s short balls. Had Rafa continued to stay aggressive (as he did during his first three rounds here), he would not allow Cilic to dictate so often, too bad Rafa was too defensive as the match went on.
Rafa was aggressive in first 3 rounds against junk opponents who allowed him to get aggressive. Thats the difference. Against Argentine and Croation he could not get aggressive.
Not true, it’s how he started the match. He chose to serve first, so he had all the chances to play an aggressive game from the get go. It’s not as if he had not played against Schwartzman and Cilic before; he chose to wait and see instead of being aggressive from the get go. Rafa’s aggression > Schwartzman’s and Cilic’s, and he’s way more consistent. However he started his matches being more of a counterpuncher mindset, probably being wary of these two opponents.
You don’t call L Mayer junk player when he was able to push Rafa close even on clay, and took a set off Rafa at the USO last year.
Lucky,
Yes I hope Rafa plays I/W and Miami. I could see him skipping Rome. He got lucky by losing to Theim in the quarterfinals. He got out of there and was able to get a little break before RG.
I am hoping to see Rafa and his team making decisions about where he will and won’t play. I want to see him playing a little longer.
You are right there, Nats. In fact after years of watching Rafa, you can make out when he has a glint in his eye and he is chasing the ball like a hare especially on crucial points. Cilic hardly did anything but in spite of that fist pumping all over the place when he slapped a winner past a compromised Rafa.
Rafa definitely was not ready for competition. what a pity, when he is healthy, he has been denied by a fellow big 4 and when the draw has opened up he has had injuries 🙁
You can also watch the full match here, set by set-
Rafael Nadal vs Marin Cilic Full Match SET 1 HD – Men’s Singles Quarter-Final Australian Open 2018
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hxwf67OQBmM
Or here- 3 hours 6 minutes long.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ciBWWiDbM
Hello all! News flash! ESPN got the report from Rafa’s camp that scans reveal only a grade one injury in his leg muscle, no tears. He should be back in three weeks for Acapulco!
😀
From VB –
https://twitter.com/stu_fraser/status/9 … 2503785472
Here is the actual twitter announcement that was posted on VB –
“Rafael Nadal’s MRI scan in Melbourne this morning shows a “grade 1 injury of his iliopsoas on his right leg”. Three week recovery time expected. Still hopes to play in Acapulco.”
Good! At least it is not serious so Rafa can now rest and recover; I think he wants to play at Acapulco to test his body and gets some match play.
He will barely recover n still wants to play Acapulco. Rafa..will you ever learn please? Go straight to IW
The injury was caused by rafa not being match fit n having less preparations before tourney n then running around to chase everything. The stress was lot on his body.
On this last time he retired he won 3 that year, Please don’t fall for all this. He was supposed to win as he had beaten Leonardo Mayer but nothing of that sort happened. I would be happy if rafa wins a slam ..forget 3 🙂
Btw after knowing rafa pulled out injured , Cilic should have behaved more gracefully. I absolutely detested his behaviour when Rafa was in court. He could have waited for Rafa to leave the court atleast.
On few people commenting above that there is no guarantee a fit nadal would have won the match , another attempt at again trying to put Rafa down. Rafa was up 2 sets to 1 n he was clear favorite to win the match from there on. He got injured right in 4th 3rd or 4th game.
Sanju, Rafa was very lucky to win 3rd set. Cilic was dominating the rallies and missed a very easy put-away for 6-5 in the TB. Watch Rafa’s face after that miss: he wasn’t celebrating, because he knew he got lucky right there.
You’re right that objectively, Rafa should have been favoured to win after a 2-1 lead. But despite winning the set, Cilic was the more aggressive player, controlling most of the points. The match was really on his racquet, and Rafa really didn’t have any answers to his power when it was under control. The main reason Rafa was standing so far back on the 1st serve is because he knew his chances of making a good return standing closer were slim.
So I hardly think it’s putting Rafa down to say that there was no guarantee he would have won, up 2-1, even if he was fully healthy. Favoured at that point, yes, but no guarantee of victory.
Joe Smith says AT 6:56 AM: “Watch Rafa’s face after that miss (Cilic’s): he wasn’t celebrating.”
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Hmm. It makes me think that it’s normal for YOUR darling to celebrate his opponent’s UEs.
It’s a big point. Most players celebrate when they win big points, no matter how they win them.
Benny G,
You’re wrong in this instance – most Rafa fans do acknowledge that Cilic up his game from later half of second set. Rafa not being as fit as he used to is understandable, not an excuse, since he couldn’t train for most of the past two months.
It’s the usual anti-Rafa Fed fans who failed to acknowledge these facts, they’re the biased ones yet they claimed that the Rafa fans were the biased one giving excuses.
I just hope you aren’t saying I regularly make excuses for Fed’s losses. I barely addressed his back after his loss to Zverev, I gave a LOT of praise to Del Po at the US Open, and I barely addressed his subpar level against Goffin after that one too as I just simply said Goffin was shockingly aggressive and too good on the day. And I’m sorry lucky but I have just seen many Rafans (not necessarily the majority but a lot) on this site just continuously discuss his scheduling, his injuries, and how poorly he played following losses, even if he didn’t play badly. For example, Rafa played a good match against Muller at Wimbledon, and while many acknowledged how well Muller played and how high quality the match was, several fans also just continuously discussed afterwards how tight Rafa was playing in the fifth and how he should have broken and how he shouldn’t have gotten off to the poor start and all that stuff. I am just speaking from experience on here and basically acknowledging that there is a solid bit of truth to what Big Al was initially arguing.
Also, I am not anti-Rafa as I have the utmost respect and admiration for what he has done individually throughout his career and for the sport. (Not saying u accused me of being anti Rafa, just wanted to make it clear)
Benny G says AT 4:14 AM. “Rafans (not necessarily the majority but a lot) on this site just continuously discuss his scheduling.”
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That’s because some fans let themselves get influenced by Fedafans’ daily propaganda.
Benny, I don’t follow other tennis sites, and I can’t say anything about “Rafa fans” (or Fed fans) in general. I can say, however, that the majority of Rafa fans who are regular contributors to this forum find it very hard to accept any Nadal defeat straightforwardly. Almost invariably, they will focus on an injury, his sub-par performance, his lack of match play, etc. Uncharitably but perhaps accurately, these are best labelled as excuses.
I think this is of a piece with Rafa fans’ belief that Nadal, at his best, should beat anyone, perhaps with the exception of Djokovic on HC. They particularly find it hard to accept losses to journeymen (Rosol) or newbies (Shapovalov). For some, such as Hawkeye, it is an article of faith (not dissimilar to beliefs of literal religious fanatics on this site) that Nadal at his best will always beat Federer.
I don’t think this level of fanaticism is generally true of Federer fans on this site, myself included. Like you, Benny, I was inclined simply to say that Fed was beaten by the better player last year (in matches I saw), including Zverev, del Potro, and Goffin. I don’t think I make any excuses for Fed losses, though doubtless someone could pull up an old post of mine that makes me rethink that claim.
In my opinion, in general, the Rafa fans on this site are more fervent, even religious, in their Rafa fandom than are the Fed fans. Benny, Kevin, Eugene, Big Al, TWD, and I dare say myself, are generally more measured in their support of Fed than are the Rafa fans. Perhaps we are not representative of Federer fans more generally, and no doubt people like Augusta are reacting to something real that exists in the wider tennis fan world. Limiting my observations to this site, however, I think what I’m saying is true.
Benny,
After the Muller match, it’s normal for the Rafa fans to dissect and see what went wrong, and I think that’s pretty normal. If Muller beat Rafa in straight sets convincingly, then no arguments, simply Rafa was being outplayed. But, when the match was that close, certainly the Rafa fans would want to find out why Rafa lost such a close match!
Come on, are the Rafa fans not allowed to concentrate on Rafa’s performances and see what went wrong there? Are we always have to sing praises to his opponents??? Don’t you find the anti Rafa Fed fans unreasonable? They want to cheer for Rafa’s opponent’s that’s their right and their business, but don’t forbid the Rafa fans from analyzing what went wrong with Rafa!
Lucky, I’m sorry if I came across as trying to “forbid Rafa fans from analyzing what went wrong” with his performance. I was just branching off of what Big Al was saying earlier. I just think there is some truth to his argument in the sense that often it seems not much credit is given to Rafa’s opponents when he loses and that there is a significantly greater amount of focus on the issues with Rafa and how poor he may have played or what injury he was dealing with, etc. Anyways, it really isn’t that important. I was just sort of defending Big Al’s point a little bit. But honestly I do want to say that I personally don’t really give Cilic props for the win because of how he celebrated afterwards. If you react like that to a retirement/injury of a gracious competitor like Rafa, then you shouldn’t get much or any praise at all for your win.
Lots of players, including Rafa, celebrate after their opponent misses a shot, including making an UE. This happens not infrequently following a long rally.
The reason Rafa didn’t celebrate after that point, imo, is because he knew he had been thoroughly beaten in the point and was lucky to win it due to Cilic’s miss.
Just because you worship one player doesn’t mean I do: no player is “my darling.” Unlike you, I don’t obsessively detail one player’s training regimen, injuries, stock announcements, etc.
Curiously, as others have pointed out, you apparently have nothing whatsoever to say about actual tennis.
That’s fine; you’re entitled to your religion. Just don’t assume that others are like you.
Joe Smith says AT 7:51 AM:”The reason Rafa didn’t celebrate after that point, imo, is because he knew…”
===
You don’t know anything about what Rafa knows or doesn’t know.
As for “obsessively detail one player’s…”, I have noticed that you prefer to post make up stories instead of facts. (When I have read your posts instead of skipping them.)
I don’t know anything about what Rafa knows? That’s why I said “in my opinion.”
It’s called an inference, in this case based on how the point was played and on Rafa’s facial reaction.
Perhaps you should read my posts instead of skipping them; you might learn something interesting.
Please supply an example of a “make-up” story that I have posted.
Joe Smith AT 8:29 AM,
End of.
Wrong assumption by Joe, about Rafa fans thinking that Rafa could only lose to Djoko on the HCs. Rafa’s H2H vs other players didn’t say so – he lost more on the HCs than anywhere else; and he lost to players like Fed, Murray, Delpo, Tsonga, etc on the HCs when he wasn’t injured but either he didn’t play well, or simply he was being outplayed.
I don’t think we gave any excuses when Tsonga beat him convincingly at AO in 2008; or Murray beat him at Canada in 2010 for egs. There are just too much generalizations going on about Rafa fans, and the unreasonable anti Rafa fans can’t even leave the Rafa fans alone to analyze why Rafa lost his matches, and wanted the Rafa fans to sing praises to his opponents, ridiculous!
Like I said, it’s Rafa’s own undoing that he lost the second set after breaking Cilic’s serve. Rafa was clearly playing better than Cilic in the first two sets when he could generate so many BP chances! He could have broken Cilic more often had he returned the second serves better. I won’t be surprised that Rafa would win in straight sets had he won the second set; I am sure he would step it up after winning the second set to finish the job and not allowing Cilic to play his game (Cilic is not known to be mentally tough).
The fact that he lost the second set after being one break up might have dented his confidence a bit, knowing that he would have to play at least two more sets to win. Cilic did up his level in the third set and after.
Well, Lucky, the simplest thing to say is that Rafa was playing better through his service break in the 2nd set. In the first set he played terrific tennis, aggressive and accurate. However, after Cilic broke back in the 2nd, he was generally the better player, even if Rafa was able to take a very close 3rd set tiebreak.
Would Rafa have won in straights if he’d won the 2nd? Maybe, but that set wasn’t exactly close: the score was 3-6 against him. So it’s a pretty big “if”.
A more plausible “if,” imo, is that if Cilic would have won the very tight 3rd set TB, he would have closed out the match in 4.
Joe, if Rafa won the second set, Im sure Cilic wont even have the chance to make the third set close, thats how I see Cilic. Had Rafa held serve, he would still be up a break and Im not sure he would lose the set from then on.
Rafa was 40-30 up in his service game after breaking Cilic in the second set but after a few deuces, he DF to give Cilic the adv and then a two second serves more, he lost his serve. Its from then onwards that Cilic raised his level to win the second set; even then Rafa had his chances when hes serving at 3-4 and 40-30 up to level the set but served a few points poorly to lose serve again.
I disagree that Rafa was playing well, when he was serving with ave speed 170+kph compared to his normal 190+ kph in his previous matches. Hes just playing OK by his high standard, hence Cilic when he raised his game was able to push Rafa around behind the baseline.
This doesn’t have to do with the AO but Nishikori lost first round of the challenger at Newport Beach in his return from injury!! Oh my lord Kei has gotta get something going fast.
Poor Kei, born at the wrong time, joined the main tour when the big four were at their domineering best, so he won’t stand a chance. Had he been at Chung’s age and playing as a 21 yo now, he might have his chances like the youngsters now.
So true, although I’m not so sure with how injury prone Kei is. Recurring injury problems that last through one’s career make it almost impossible to reach the very top (unless you’re the resilient beast that is Rafa of course)