Seeds at the upcoming World Tour Finals were finalized on Saturday when David Ferrer lost to Andy Murray in the semis of the BNP Paribas Masters. Ferrer will move up inconsequentially from No. 8 to No. 7 but could have climbed all the way to fifth with the Paris title.
Seeds
1) Novak Djokovic
2) Andy Murray
3) Roger Federer
4) Stan Wawrinka
5) Rafael Nadal
6) Tomas Berdych
7) David Ferrer
8) Kei Nishikori
Draw format
1) Novak Djokovic – in pool A
2) Andy Murray – in pool B
3) Roger Federer – cannot be with Wawrinka
4) Stan Wawrinka – cannot be with Federer
5) Rafael Nadal – cannot be with Berdych
6) Tomas Berdych – cannot be with Nadal
7) David Ferrer – cannot be with Nishikori
8) Kei Nishikori – cannot be with Ferrer
Djokovic Federer Nadal and nishikori would be sick group. It would be bad draw for all though.
i think i want A) Djokovic, Wawrinka, Berdych, and Ferrer and B) Murray, Federer, Nadal, and Nishikori
Yeah that would be good draw too. I would take djokovic and Wawrinka to win A group and Murray and fed to win B group.
What do u think the toughest draw for Novak would be?
A tough group for novak would be if he is asked to play with left hand. I dont see novak losing a single match irrespective of who he plays.
Everyone
I reckon groups are going to be djoker; wawrinka; berdych; and nishikori (Gasquet if nishikori is injured)
The other group is going to be federer; murray; nadal; ferrer
My tips are nadal and berdych to make the final of Barclays
I reckon ferrer going to beat federer; nadal going to beat federer and ferrer; murray going to beat federer; mirrsy beats nadal; murray and nadal qualify from this group
Djoker going to beat everyone; berdych going to come second in group
Djoker and nadal meet semis; berdych and murray meet semis
Berdych and nadal meet in final ; no too 4 in the final
how is Federer losing to Ferrer?
This is my draw ‘out of a hat’:
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Federer……………………………………………Wawrinka
Berdych……………………………………………Nadal
Ferrer………………………………………………Nishikori
how did you conduct it?
I wrote down the names of each group of 2 from Federer downwards eg Federer/ Wawa, folded the pieces of paper closed my eyes and the first one picked went into Group A, the second into Group B, then Nadal/Berdych and Ferrer/Nishikori.
I’m sure it won’t work out that way but it will be interesting to see how close I am, if at all.
great stuff
I will have to wait for the draw. Never have been able to manage hypothetical permutations – my brain simply doesn’t work that way as most of you must’ve noticed 🙂
Prefer
Djokovic Nadal Ferrer Wawrinka
Murray Federer Berdych Nishikori
Nadal has a better chance reaching semis if group is paired this way rather than clubbed with Murray and Federer. Also if he makes semis, he wont have to play Djokovic in semis.
I actually don’t mind Nadal playing Djokovic. At their best, I think Nadal has the edge. The only thing is, not sure if the real Rafa will stay in Mallorca, if he turns up he can take on any of them.
no, he does not have the edge on this surface.
They are 2 :2 on this surface.
irrelevant
It’s been so long that Rafa’s been at his best so impossible to say.
Indoors is rarely an advantage for Rafa.
I dont know Novak winning everything under the sun is good for tennis, or not. The commies are reading out all his achievements this year, I wonder will they get tired, or bored, finally if Novak continues winning everything next year and beyond.
Rafa is not going to beat Novak at the WTF, at least he’s not ready yet, so to me, whichever group he lands in doesn’t matter. Novak will most likely win it again and cap an unbelievable season that even Fed couldn’t match.
Agreed.
Other than going for a Nole slam, it’s not good for tennis.
However I’m not sure how many of us would be complaining if it was Rafa. 🙂
I’m not excited about predicting how the WTF draw will be rigged (even though it will be). I do expect Fed and Murray to be in the same draw. Rafa and Wawa in Nole’s half.
The last three don’t really matter much.
Hard to get excited over an indoor exhibition where you can lose twice and come out champion.
the commentators will talk about what there is! of course they will talk about Novak because this year has been all Novak. I know we don’t like it, but the truth is that Djokovic deserves all that praise. What do we want to hear from the commies then? should they talk about rafa’s struggles or how fed can no longer win slams?
Can’t blame the commies.. unless Rafa steps up, it will stay like this. Nobody from the new generation is good enough right now. Murray, well, ….don’t know…he is capable of doing great stuff but he has been held back lately…
If they did they’d lose their jobs lol.
hawkeye, I think you are right. It’s going to be Djokopod/Nadal, Murray/Federer.
I’m ALWAYS right naddy.
Rafa wont sweep up everything under the sun, at least not on indoor HCs and not on grass, so there’s no chance for anyone to complain about his dominance across all surfaces.
Novak is more fortunate than Fed; he peakef at the right time when Rafa’s dominance on clay started to wane; Fed had to deal with a Rafa at his peak on clay so he’s not dominating across all surfaces.
Nope, my question is: will they get bored if Novak continues winning everything next year and beyond.
If Rafa is not firing on all cylinders then it doesn’t matter which group he is in but if he is they all have to look out.
Captain Obvious.
Watchinng Murray play after a long time… his movement is definitely 100%…not explosive enough so far
or may be he came out a bit slow….if that is the case, WAKE UP Murray
is or isnt
good show with all those magnificent drop shots! good play
that one at 30-0 was NOT on! watch it Muzz!
VR, WRONG THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!
oops
he cannot challenge Novak with this first serve….both the quality and the % ! I know he has a stiff back….. oh that was a better serve
Alternative draw forecast:
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Wawrinka………………………………………….Federer
Nadal…………………………………………… ..Berdych
Ferrer…………………………………….… ……Nishikori
why is the draw not until Thursday
You tell us, Ricky. You are closer to these things than we are.
Alternative draw forecast: (3)
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Wawrinka………………………………………….Federer
Nadal…………………………………………… ..Berdych
Nishikori…………………………………….… … Ferrer
Alternative draw forecast: (4)
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Federer……………………………………………Wawrinka
Nadal…………………………………………… ..Berdych
Ferrer…………………………………….… ……Nishikori
Gee wiz nadline10 there’s not many permutations left.
No, I’m taking cover on all fronts. It’ll be interesting to see which one is closest.
Not when you list them all.
Only winner forecast – Novak Djokovic (SRB)
Thank goodness there are no giants at the O2 the tent is not high enough to contain them.
The draw will be live on Sky Sports News on Thursday at 7.45.
awful
[polldaddy poll=9169263]
These are the 8 possible draws for the WTF. Which one do you think is the right one.
Djokovic……………………………………………Murray
Federer……………………………………………Wawrinka
Nadal……………………………………………….Berdych
Ferrer…………………………………….…..……Nishikori
Djokovic……………………………………….…..Murray
Federer……………………………………………Wawrinka
Nadal……………………………………………….Berdych
Nishikori…………………………………….…..….Ferrer
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Federer………………………………………..…Wawrinka
Berdych…………………………………….…….Nadal
Nishikori……………………………………… ….Ferrer
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Federer……………………………………………Wawrinka
Berdych……………………………………………Nadal
Ferrer………………………………………………Nishikori
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Wawrinka…………………………………..…….Federer
Nadal………………………………………..… ..Berdych
Ferrer…………………………………….………Nishikori
Djokovic…………………………………….……..Murray
Wawrinka………………………………………….Federer
Nadal……………………………………………….Berdych
Nishikori…………………………….…….……… Ferrer
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Wawrinka………………………………………….Federer
Berdych…………………………………….……..Nadal
Ferrer…………………………………….………..Nishikori
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Wawrinka………………………………..……….Federer
Berdych…………………………………………..Nadal
Nishikori………………………………….………Ferrer
What?
So Ricky, what is your prediction of the likely draw?
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Wawrinka………………………………………….Federer
Berdych…………………………………….……..Nadal
Ferrer…………………………………….………..Nishikori
Not sure about Ferrer, Berdych and Nishi but pretty certain on the rest.
Haha that’s cuz fed never gets bad draws right lol
Not never. But rarely. 😉
Oops, didn’t mean to have Rafa and Fed in the same half given that Rafa gave the Federazzi a serious scare in Basel, no?
Correct My predictions to:
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Wawrinka…………………………………..…….Federer
Nadal………………………………………..… ..Berdych
Ferrer…………………………………….………Nishikori
Some statistics:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTcv_pJWEAMSYVZ.png
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/hand-clapping-smiley-emoticon.gif
Not quite, but almost. 29.6 . We’ll see. average age will go over 30 by next year if the same ones are there. Nishikori is questionable, so, say Tsonga or Gasquet? yes…over 31, But hoping a new face can make it – Nick Kyrigos age 21, and in the same group as Stan at World Tour Final.
This would be my preferred draw for Rafa:
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Federer……………………………………………Wawrinka
Berdych……………………………………………Nadal
Ferrer………………………………………………Nishikori
Which one is your preferred draw for your favourite player? @nadline10
November 9, 2015 at 9:06 am
Nativenewyorker, there is nothing wrong with being a Novak fan. You sound like one to me. Who is your favourite player?
this. I can never understand why it matters whom someone is a fan of.
What about Philly fans? You don’t include them obviously.
Do you? Or don’t you.
Ricky,
Then why bring it up in the first place?
what?
nor is calling someone a fan of someone an accusation
Mmmmm again…. same question. 🙂
Ricky,
I asked why bring up that I am a Novak fan if it’s not important!
what date/time did the discussion you are referring to start? Right now I have no idea what you are referencing.
Reblogged this on Tennis Abides.
Ricky,
This person also said that I was guilt of writing Rafa off. You may say that none of this matters, but my point is that if it doesn’t matter, then why bother to say it in the first place? It’s not about tennis. I think it’s kind of an odd first comment for someone to make. It doesn’t matter, so then why even mention it. That’s my point.
Perhaps Ricky and said other person differ on that opinion.
?
Ricky,
I am referencing Orchid’s post today @ 2:58 pm and your replies @ 2:59 pm.
I am not sure Ricky is getting these as I reblogged this on my site.
?
I am confused as well
about what?
The comments from earlier
The reason the prize money and points for the WTF are so high is to force the top players to turn up. They should just pay them appearance fees with no points. For a RR format where you can lose a match and still win the trophy 1,500 points is far too much. In all other tournaments, you don’t get a second chance. If you lose in the first round, that’s it.
I don’t think players should play a whole year to get into an eight-man tournament and then be out if they lose just one match. This isn’t baseball.
No, they can keep the RR format just not award it so much prize money and points.
I’m with Ricky here.
Have points that decide year end rankings from 1-8 only and then drop the points Jan. 1.
Let them play IPTL rules or added bonus for skills competition for all I care so long as the points drop off at year end.
I don”t think the players play a whole year just to get into WTF. They play to win slams, Masters, other titles and get a ranking as high as possible. Qualifying for WTF is incidental to being in the top 8, not the primary motivation for being in the top 8.
I agree, but it would still be awful to play and lose one match and be out of the YEAR-END CHAMPIONSHIP. Also, in an 8-man regular tournament, only SEVEN matches would be played. Now there are 15. I don’t think there is an ideal way to do it, but it’s far better than the alternative.
^^ That.
#QuackQuack
#MooMoo
#MewMew
RR format is ok for a 8 man field. Surfaces should be rotated between clay and hardcourt.
it should not and cannot rotate
Top 16 instead would give same number of matches and best of five would reduce chances of upset (like in grand slams).
Losing two matches (let alone one) and being year end champion would also be awful.
And no reason that there can’t be indoor clay now that there is a week off between Paris and WTF.
If they dropped the points on Jan. 1 as you suggested, I don’t care what they do.
Otherwise, the current format is a joke and gives Top 8 an unfair buffer over the rest in rankings for the whole year.
ATP Launches ‘Finals Club’ In Honour Of Season Finale’s Past Champions
NOV 10, 2015
Barclays ATP World Tour Finals
Stan Smith
Groups are named in honour of past singles and doubles champions
The ATP launched a new initiative on Tuesday, aimed at celebrating the former champions of the season-ending Barclays ATP World Tour Finals, as well as recognising all singles players and doubles teams to have qualified for the Tour’s season-ending tournament since the inaugural event in Tokyo in 1970.
The Finals Club initiative will see many of the game’s former greats from the past 45 years return to the season-ending tournament, where they will be able to reconnect with the sport, their peers, as well as the world’s best players of today.
While players from subsequent decades will be celebrated in future years, the launch of the Finals Club this year will be highlighted by the renaming of Groups A and B for both the singles and doubles in honour of players that made an indelible mark on the tournament in the 1970s.
In singles:
– Group A will be renamed in honour of Stan Smith, winner of the inaugural tournament in Tokyo in 1970.
– Group B will be renamed in honour of Ilie Nastase, a four-time winner of the event from 1971-1973 and ’75.
In doubles:
– Group A will be renamed Ashe/Smith, in honour of Arthur Ashe & Stan Smith, winners of the inaugural tournament in Tokyo in 1970.
– Group B will be renamed Fleming/McEnroe, in honour of Peter Fleming & John McEnroe, seven-time consecutive winners of the tournament.
“This tournament has such a rich and unique history, and the Finals Club will provide us with a great way to celebrate that moving forward,” said Chris Kermode, ATP Executive Chairman & President. “Qualifying for this tournament is an incredible achievement in itself. The Finals Club will keep our former players involved with our season-ending event, and we look forward to welcoming players from the 1970s at The O2 this year, as well as players from subsequent decades in years to come.”
For Smith, the chance to witness the world’s best at The O2 is something to relish. “I look forward to returning to the season finale and to joining many of my fellow competitors from the 1970s in the gallery,” said Smith. “As we marvel at the performances of the likes of Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, I will also reflect on the incredible growth of men’s professional tennis and reminisce with rivals turned friends. I’ll forever remember winning the very first singles and doubles event in Tokyo in 1970, and I’m truly honoured that the ATP has chosen to celebrate its history by renaming the groups in this way for 2015.”
The singles and doubles draw ceremony for the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals will take place on Thursday evening at City Hall in London.
absurd
This sounds remarkably like a desperate attempt to big up the WTF as the date approaches for renegotiating the O2 contract. If so I doubt this flaccid window dressing will cut much ice.
..
The team names (apart from McEnroe) will mean precious little to the general public other than the tennis cognescenti. Why call it The Finals Club which smacks of a Members Only enclosure from which the hoi polloi are excluded.
The ATP is in dire need of a good speech writer to pen the statements attributed to Kermode and Stan Smith. The two quoted above are dreadful examples of the genre.
Kermode has done a great job so far at the O2 so I am surprised this is the best that could be thought up for breathing fresh life into the WTF.
.
this is so ridiculous. I wonder if I will actually stoop so low as to call them “Group Smith” and “Group Nastase” in my articles….
Possibly you won’t be put to the test. I know there is pressure for it to go to Asia, presumably Shanghai, and Kermode made a somewhat cagey remark earlier this year which had me wondering if the decision is already fait accompli.
“this is so ridiculous. I wonder if I will actually stoop so low as to call them “Group Smith” and “Group Nastase” in my articles….”
hahaha…please do call them that. it’s too precious — it’s your blogger’s duty now.
i may just make up names. Maybe poll the tenngrand audience.
Do it! My thinking cap is ON.
What about group Roger and group Rafa lol
Group No1e
The Others
;p
LOL!!!
I LOVE Benny’s idea. Even if they are in the same half lol.
How about Group Monfils and Group Gulbis.
Or Group Gulbis and Group Boring.
How about Group Hawkeye!!!!
Group Ricky
Group Hawkeye
lol
Or Group NiceGuys and Group NastyGuys
or simply
Group Winners and Group Losers
talking of Nasty guys, since when did the ATP re-brand Nastase?
He was such a thorn in the flesh for tournament directors he earned the nickname Nasty and the ATP introduced the 25sec rule to curtail his delaying antics on court.
The crowds loved him of course.
Eureka!!!
Group Do You? and Group Don’t You.
Have you got anything up on the draw ceremony. I’m seeing nothing at all.
ed, am listening to boris johnson waffle on…extraordinary combination with andrew castle and chris kermode….
I cracked up at the Boris Johnson performance when he sent the proceedings up!
Andrew Castle was plain inept throughout while Gerry Anderson managed to look shifty and embarrassed at the same time. I noticed they quickly changed the ritual of the draw before they got to the singles. ROFL
Interesting facts can be found on the Internet:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTgutHRWwAAUxMC.png
That’s what I call the GOAT.
The seedings should be based on the lifetime h2h of the 8 players against each other:
Win/Loss
1. Nadal —————————–123-53
2. Djokovic————————–125-66
3. Federer—————————- 96-66
4. Murray—————————– 57-69
5. Wawrinka—————————36-72
6. Ferrer———————————35-85
7. Berdych—————————–29-81
8. Nishikori——————————18-27
maybe they should be based on the indoor hard-court H2H between the 8 players…..
Will you collate that info, Ricky? I am not sure they have enough matches against each other to make it meaningful.
I will at some point, yes
That’s not a simple thing to do. You would have to look up 28 head to head combinations and filter on indoor hard.
Can’t even do that on tennis abstract.
So no I doubt that you’d bother.
some of these are off by a little bit
Which ones are off, Ricky?
Berdych and Ferrer both off by 1. Havent looked at all of them.
The WTF is looming and what are we talking about? Rafael Nadal.
Site full of OTT Rafans. Nothing new.
Nadal:
“I am not sure if it is 100 per cent fair that we qualify for the World Tour Finals playing on grass, hard, clay and indoors, and since 2005, when I qualified [for the first time], it is already 11 years that every single time [it has been] on indoor hard,’ says Nadal.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-3312691/Rafael-Nadal-clay-O2-courts-knees-break-Spaniard-returns-England-rediscovered-joy-sport.html#ixzz3rCGfRdzm
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Barry Cowan:
“What would be the perfect draw for Murray?
Stan Wawrinka, Tomas Berdych, and I would say Kei Nishikori, because he’s not fit. Ideally Nishikori first match.”
that draw would be a joke
Best indoor career records:
Roger Federer 0.805 – 260-63
Novak Djokovic0.781 – 121-34
Andy Murray
0.773 – 116-34
Kei Nishikori
0.742 – 49-17
Rafael Nadal
0.679 – 72-34
David Ferrer
0.627 – 101-60
Tomas Berdych
0.620 – 116-71
Stan Wawrinka
0.550 – 66-54
For a guy who seems to favour choosing indoor tournaments with the second highest number of indoor matches, you’d think that Berdych would have a better record.
My bad, Berdych’s career W-L record is just 63.5% over all so negligible difference.
Couldn’t someone in charge slow down that indoor hc and find proper balls to increase Rafa’s chance of winning this thing?
the London surface is already very slow. As slow as Paris.
Good point.
I repeat what I have written several times.
The Paris Masters website: ¤¤ The BNP Paribas Masters is played on GreenSet – resin on wood – which is absolutely identical to the surface at the ATP World Tour Finals in London which will be held from 15 – 22 November 2015.¤¤
The courts in Basel, Paris and London have been identical since at least 2013.
Looks like your sarcasm got lost. :p
Cool table of career h2h vs Top 10…
http://tennisabstract.com/reports/h2hMatrix.html
All the big servers have a negative h2h against the top 15.
What would be the best draw to maximize anyone but Djoko win? Nadal in Djokovic’s half. Federer and Nishikori in Murray’s half. Not sure about the rest. Idea is the two with the best chance of defeating Djoko should meet be in the semi and Finals i.e Murray and Fed. The others in Djoko’s group should be good enough to give Djoko some trouble, the others in Murray’s group should just roll over.
Djokovic is a lock to make the semifinals, so to answer the question we must only consider what might happen AFTER Djokovic makes the semifinals. It does not matter if he gets put in the hardest possible round robin group, as he would still advance.
I would say Djokovic-Wawrinka in same group and Federer with Murray. Most importantly, it would make a Djokovic-Fed semi a possibility. It also gives Djokovic a chance of losing a round-robin match (Stan is the only player other than Fed who can beat him), which would build others’ confidence heading into the semis and final.
Then probably Nadal with Federer and Berdych with Djokovic, as Nadal could beat Fed, making Fed the No. 2 seed from Group B and playing Djokovic in the semis.
Nishikori-Ferrer placement irrelevant
Assuming Rafa can beat everyone but Djoko, this also maximizes his chances of being a WTF finalist or winner as he can afford to lose one RR and he is assured of not meeting Djok in the semis. If the semi finalists from the other half cannot take out Djoko, Rafa will only be a finalist, if they can take him out, Rafa will win.
Why do you think Nadal can’t beat Djokovic but Murray can? Murray’s h2h with Djoko is 9-21.
who thinks Murray can beat Djokovic?
Mary says:
November 11, 2015 at 4:49 pm
Idea is the two with the best chance of defeating Djoko should meet be in the semi and Finals i.e Murray and Fed. The others in Djoko’s group should be good enough to give Djoko some trouble, the others in Murray’s group should just roll over.
Murray has no chance of beating Djokovic. I would say of all the WTF contestants only Ferrer has a worse chance of beating Djokovic than Murray.
Chances are Muzz is going to tank his matches.
But whether we think Muzz has the best or worst chance of beating Djok, he has to be in the other half.
They should rotate from one surface to another. The whole thing is a farce, it’s just one last bash of the ATP to get in some cash. As usual, no thoughts for the players. If indoor was Roger’s worst surface, they would have done something about it.
they can’t, and they shouldn’t
if Nadal was a six-time champion of this event, you would love it
I agree with Ricky’s comment @ 5:58 pm. Murray hasn’t shown that he can beat Novak at all, the lone exception being Montreal. I can’t see him beating Novak on this court at all. Yes, Murray has the least chance of beating Novak with the exception of Ferrer. Novak has nothing to fear from either of them. Stan would be much more of a challenge, but would have to be at his best. Fed has the capability to do it on this court, but that doesn’t mean it will happen.
They’ve already done a lot of ‘tinkering’ with Roger’s surfaces. Leave Indoor Hard alone!
Djok, Rafa, Berdych and Wawa in one half and the rest in Muzz’s half.
that’s your prediction?
That is the draw with the best chance for Rafa to advance to the finals as it ensures Rafa doesn’t meet Djok in the semis and one of the two other players who have excellent records in indoor hardcourt and with the best chance of beating Djok would meet Djok in the semi.
can Fed beat Novak? Sure he can. Will he? No way…
I think Wawa and Ferrer are the ones Novak does not want to see in his draw…It would be true for Kei as well but Kei is not 100% fit and Novak would make an easy work of him. Why do I think so? Because they are the ones who will make Novak work hard. Ferrer never gives up and will force Novak to run for the money…Wawa I think believes he can beat Novak so will be a tough opponent for the Serb.
Although I would prefer Rafa not to be in Novak’s half I think it would be better for Rafa. He could lose one match vs Novak and still make the semis…and then the pairs in the semis could be: Novak Vs Andy and Rafa vs Fed…even if Rafa vs Andy (it could be that Andy is not interested in going deep due to DC final obligations) it will stil be interesting to see if Rafa’s confidence would go high due to reaching semis thus allowing him to play a very good match..and possibly emerge victorious…
and we would end up having a dream scenario: Novak vs Rafa fighting for the trophy… 🙂
Ferrer? Why?
I think Novak wants to avoid physically demanding matches when meeting players out of top 4. Berdy mostly relies on the serve and he does not engage in long rallies. Nishi is not fit enough to make Nole work hard. So, out of these three I think Ferrer is the least preferable for Novak…Although Ferrer stands no chance of beating Nole, he will run like hell and fight for each game. He could therefore tire Novak a bit…I hope… 🙂
ok, I change my dream draw
Djok, Rafa, Wawa and Ferrer in one half, rest in Muzz’s half.
I don’t think Novak has anything to worry about when it comes to Ferrer. Novak is more than fit enough to deal with Ferrer. Stan is another thing entirely. When he’s on his game, then he can be tough for Novak.
There is always the possibility that Fed can beat Novak on this surface. But I don’t think that Fed has looked as good as he did at the USO.
What is wrong with the WTF format is that it results sometimes in farces like a player qualifying for semis because somebody else won in 2 sets instead of 3 or something like that.
WTF could be single elimination with top 16 ( ensures 15 matches).
Or some kind of modified RR with lesser number of players ( less than 8) but decided only by wins, not number of sets won or lost etc.
Mary (at 5:57 pm),
If three players are tied in their group, then the final standings in the group will be determined by the highest percentage of sets won. (If they are still tied, then by the highest percentage of games won. And there are next rules…)
[Source: The 2015 ATP Official Rulebook]
For example, the 2012 draw, Group B:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2012/605/mds.pdf
.
came in to play the year Murray lost to Delpo by like 1 game
Ricky Dimon (at 6:53 pm)
The 2009 draw, Group A – only one game separated Delpo and Murray:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2009/605/mds.pdf
craziness
If Rafa gets his head together i.e (anxiety disorder), he should do well.
If that happens Rafa will do well anywhere anytime.
Wrong, Rafa’s deterioration in game is not caused by anxiety but his anxiety is the result of his not having his A game.
# howmanytimes?
this discussion ended like 10 hours ago
what I like about WTF is that it reminds me of the Football Champions League…you lose a match but still can win the trophy…with some luck Rafa can be in the finals and then anything is possible… 🙂
What would be your dream draw for Rafa?
I would go for Novak, Wawa, Rafa and Ferrer…
Nishi gets extra energetic when meeting Rafa so I do not want to see him on the opposite side of the net even though he may be not be fit enough…therefore, Ferrer is the better choice for Rafa…and I do not think Rafa has any mental barrier when playing Ferry…
Rafa has already beaten Wawa this fall…I still think Rafa was supposed to win the quarterfinal match in Paris…so Wawa is definitely my second choice for Rafa to get the win..
and Novak…well Rafa should play freely…win or lose it does not matter…and he will not see Novak before the finals…so focusing on the semis would be his immediate goal and then if meeting Novak in the finals Rafa can give his all…
Rafa obviously wants to be with Murray…as does everyone else
At first I didn’t want Rafa in Novak’s group, because I think he would be Rafa’s toughest opponent, but I can see where you and Mary are coming from and I’d go along with your pick. Mind you, this means that the groupings will turn out to be something completely different.
does Nadal want Fed or Wawrinka?
I think Berdych would prefer Nishikori. I think everyone else would prefer Ferrer.
Dream draw for Rafa would be him ferrer Andy and Stan.
He wants Stan. He’s 1-5 indoors vs Roger..
and World Cup, etc.
Federer’s dream draw would be him Murray berdych and ferrer.
i bet Nadal will get himself!
That leaves Rafa with his dream draw: Djokovic, Wawrinka, .Nadal, Nishikori
@ Ricky 6:53,
Andy will definitely beat (maybe not in the easiest fashion!) either Ferry or Berdy…I do not want him to meat Rafa in the group as he becomes a different Andy when facing Rafa…he tends to give his all against Rafa just to end up losing his next match…so he would then probably be able to qualify for the semis, most likely meeting Nole in the semis and would fade away making it easy for Nole to reach the finals (if Andy gets to the semis he will probably give up the fight as that would already be a good result and he could leave to get ready for DC)…whereas Fed vs Wawa would be the second semi with Fed reaching the finals in a fairly easy manner…that scenario I definitely would not like… 🙂
Ferrer and Berdy don’t go into the pot together. Murray’s choice is between Ferrer and Nishik.
irrelevant…my point is that Andy can beat Ferry or Nishi any time..so the rest of the group would consist of Rafa plus Fed…I assume Andy (given his current form!) will definitely lose to Fed, and it remains for Andy to make every effort to beat Rafa (which I am sure he will as he suddenly turns into a fit determined player when meeting 2015 version of Rafa)…this way Andy makes the semis…and there he will stop…
Don’t forget, the draw will be LIVE on Sky Sports News at 7.45 pm tomorrow.
i dont understand why it is not until Thursday evening. makes no sense.
Maybe they want all the players to be present at the draw ceremony.
[polldaddy poll=9175349]
i doubt it, but it’s possible. if that’s the case, not a reason worth delaying the draw three days for.
Well then at least we will know who ends up where. Then we can discuss what chances each of them have and how far they will go.
I dont recall there being anything like this level of discussion before previous WTFs
You are all on overdrive this year 🙂
there is much more discussion in general this year, so it makes sense…. natural progression!
Then I don’t think Ricky has devoted so many column inches to the WTF before.
Must be because he’s attending this year,
i did the exact same thing last year…. and attended last year!
That I didn’t know. Thinking about I don’t think I focussed on 2014 WTF. If I did I must have experienced a whole week of CRAFT moments.
but yes, you are still correct about more discussion
Every year, we Rafans had the satisfaction that the season had gone well, no matter what happedned at the WTF. This year, WTF is about salvaging something out of the annus horribalis 🙁
come onnnn guys! WTF has its issues, agreed BUT it can be a fun tournament too. AND, let’s be honest, the only reason you guys demean it to a level of an exhibition tournament is because Rafa has never won it. Had rafa won 4-5 WTF titles and novak/fed had never won it, you guys would have elevated WTF’s level big time! hehehe
But rafa makes perfect sense. Why always indoor hard! I believe they have had WTF on outdoor hard in the past once but rafa’s always gotten indoor hard….unfair to say the least.
@Ricky, when are you coming to London?
I do have to agree with vamosrafa as to why some Rafa fans demean this tournament. I do think it’s because Rafa has never won it. As was said, if Rafa had a bunch of titles at the WTF, then Rafa fans would think it was the holy grail!
Having said that, I personally don’t love this tournament. I don’t like that it’s always on indoor hard courts. I agree with Rafa and think he’s spot on in his comment. I don’t think that’s fair. I also don’t love the round robin, but I guess it’s the best format for these top eight players.
At least we know that Rafa’s been playing better lately and he’s in it this year! He couldn’t play it last year. So that’s a good thing. A chance to see more of Rafa and also the other top eight.
vamosrafa ” let’s be honest, the only reason you guys demean it to a level of an exhibition tournament is because Rafa has never won it.”
Oh who are these “you guys” ? Rafa fans? Sorry you are trying to see mirror image of anti-Rafans in Rafa fans. It is not Rafa fans who discount WTF because Rafa did not win it. By that analogy they should be discounting Miami. On the other hand , Anti-Rafans discount clay because Rafa is so good on it.
Are you seriously saying that WTF deserves to have ranking points? It is not an OPEN event. That itself should make it ineligible.
The venue is not even a professional tennis venue. See how Wimbledon, the other slams and Masters maintain the surfaces.
WTF venue I think is an entertainment venue used for music concerts or whatever and hastily converted to a court just before WTF. It doesn’t even deserve professional tennis event status. Even before Rafans discounted it, many players tanked or skipped the event.
It definitely does not deserve ranking points.
It should be treated as a year end extravaganza starring the top 8.
“I think is an entertainment venue used for music concerts or whatever and hastily converted to a court just before WTF.”
Have you ever been there? The tennis venue in the O2 is awesome.
The tennis venue is no doubt an awesome entertainment complex but I am talking of the tennis court. is it really a professional tennis court?
I haven’t been there but I heard it is an entertainment venue and is used for tennis only when WTF comes along. If I am wrong, I would be happy to stand corrected. I also heard the tennis court surface is not of professional playing standard. You can verify and report.
Vamosrafa. The first edition of the event at the O2 turned into a near disaster. Most of the players were on their knees from exhaustion; terrible scheduling with matches going on till the early hours of the morning long after all public transport had stopped; then the fiasco when it took 20 minutes to calculate who went forward to the SF etc.
As for Rafans demeaning the event, that has its roots in the regular bouts of trolling instigated by Maxi that brought us to our knees e.g. the WTF is the 5th slam, is far more prestigious than an Olympic gold. blah, blah.
The audience is also very different. Because it is the O2 it pulls in a lot of people who wouldn’t normally attend a tennis match and is promoted worldwide as a tourist attraction to take in while in London. The razzamatazz is ramped up year on year which IMO also helps to make it more of a carnival event than a deadly serious contest.
I am not against it per se and yes I would prefer it if Rafa had added it to his c.v. But I do get tired of the frenzied hype which starts in January each year with the so called Race to London and culminates in November when the the draw is revealed.
In its favour is that it is a money spinner for the ATP and it reaches and hopefully attracts a wider audience to the sport. I have no idea what the players really feel about the WTF and whether in private they hold it in the same high regard as the people promoting it.
Last night they looked puzzled, ill at ease and pretty bored 🙂
ed251137(at 12:20 pm),
— then the fiasco when it took 20 minutes to calculate who went forward to the SF—
===
.
I don’t know why it took 20 minutes to calculate, but A.Murray seemed to know the rule.
BBC Sport, November 27, 2009: ¤¤ Andy Murray went out of the ATP World Tour Finals in bizarre fashion as the group stage came down to the percentage of games won.
…
“I knew if I won the match then there was only one way I couldn’t go through, and that was Del Potro winning in three sets and then I think it would go down to the GAMES WON,” he [Murray] said after the match.
“I just had to focus on winning and then there’s a very slim chance of me going out.”
Unfortunately for Murray, that SLIM chance proved to be the REALITY as Del Potro won the final set with the only score that would put Murray out – 6-3. ¤¤
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8378944.stm
The other person who already knew the answer was Federer.
ed. great post. It is very annoying that the Rankings race is called the Race to London as if the players sole motivation for playing on the ATP is qualifying for WTF!!! That sounds absurd, like the tail wagging the dog or something.
what should it be called? There are regular “rankings” for the non-London race. All that matters in the “race” is London, so why should it not be called that.
It can be called the Rankings Race. Why to London? It trivializes the struggles and triumphs of the tour and is misleading. The race is for top rankings, not for qualifying for WTF which is only incidental. If the top 8 were gifted “x”, would you say the players on the ATP tour are in the race for “x” ( replace “x” with anything).
Mary says:
November 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm
—It is very annoying that the Rankings race is called the Race to London as if the players sole motivation for playing on the ATP is qualifying for WTF!!!—
===
.
The Race, indeed, has NO other purpose than to qualify for the WTF, the year-end tournament (currently held in London).
The new Race (to London 2016) will start on the Monday following the WTF – on Nov.23, 2015.
The Race will be “the Race to London” until at least 2019, because the WTF will be held in London in 2016 – 2018.
🙂
I just wanted to say that the tennis channel classic series is showing the 2009 AO final with Rafa and Fed at 8:00 pm eastern time tonight!
YIPPEE!
2015 Barclays ATP World Tour Finals Official Launch and Draw –
LIVE STREAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxLHgoHgx4M
thanks!
Augustao: Is this BST or has it already been adjusted to BST+1 for European time?
I would’ve thought it would be BST as the draw is in London but 2hrs.34min from now is definitely European time.
yes, its in 2.5 hours
?Thanks
Draw updates?
Not long to wait
Doubles draw started
Boris Johnson just told them it’s entirely fixed. Hilarious
Djoko
Fed
Berdy
Kei
Murray
Stan
Rafa
Ferrer
Fedal semifinal in the mix now. Pretty good mix of top players in each draw in fact we have two of the big four in each one.
Djokovic v Nadal Final ?
Good draw for Rafa. Avoided the two best indoor players ATM. Hopefully he can make semis and face Fed as he was close to beating him in Basel.
yeah, but Rafa has to finish first in his group, otherwise he will meet Novak in the semis…
Unless Fed beats Nole.
Cannot see Djoko losing to Fed. We’ll see.
i can see it. i certainly wouldn’t predict it as of now. unless Djoker somehow plays terribly against Nishikori, then maybe.
You must have missed the two times he already did this year
Certainly I don’t know anything. Simply going on maybe Kei feeling good, able to sneak the 2nd set, but Djoko no nonsense, wins, 6-0 or 6-1 in decider.
Your first sentence agreed.
let’s bet on it.
Relax. Your avatar is appropriate.
that was their 02 match last year!
Yes. Thought it sounded familiar! Nishikori will play possum 1st set, make Djoko overconfident and ninja the 2nd set. Djoko put down the hammer in the end.
That’s racist.
It’s not either
Chose my avatar for you, hawkeye. It’s what I see when I read your posts.
Add another fan to the pile. Get in line.
What the…? you confuse me again.
Hawkeye: ” You must have missed the two times he already did this year”
Can you be more clear please? Who is the (he) to which you refer? Fed? okay. But Fed/Djoko? I’d go with the more recent results.
I snap My fingers et voila, new avatar!
#YoureWelcomeMyFan
#Humb1e
#HawkeyesHaus
#MembershipHasItsRewards
Take it easy. New avatar still makes me think of you.
Have read these comment sections enough to know we agree sometimes and really don’t at others.
Good!
As I’ve said before, I barely agree with half of what I say here. 🙂
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTo1ZNkUwAAHCFo.png
adline10 says:
November 10, 2015 at 2:21 pm
This would be my preferred draw for Rafa:
Djokovic…………………………………………..Murray
Federer……………………………………………Wawrinka
Berdych……………………………………………Nadal
Ferrer………………………………………………Nishikori
Swap Ferrer for Nishikori and I was right.
Speaking of the Group names, U.Toni is probably happy that Rafa is in the Ilie Nastase Group. I.Nastase became Toni’s idol after he saw Nastase playing in Barcelona in 1972 and Toni started to play tennis because of that. 🙂
This must be the first time in years that djokovic and Federer are on same side of the draw?
Till 2011 weren’t they usually on the same side?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTo5PbSUEAAfO9D.png
If Murray tanks, then Rafa and Wawa will go to the semis. Rafa must try to beat Wawa in the RR so he can be no 1. I am assuming Djoko will top his group with Fed as no. 2. So then Rafa vs Fed semi would be a do-able win for Rafa and he will be in the final! Vamos Rafa!
The next best scenario is Fed vs Djoko in the final and Fed taking out Djok. Allez Fed!
Murray tanking may not even be necessary
Exactly.
Rafa will play his first match (against Wawrinka) on Monday after 8:00 pm.
OOP for Monday:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2015/605/op.pdf
new thread https://tenngrand.com/2015/11/12/world-tour-finals-groups-revealed-djokovic-with-federer/
Rafa scheduled from 8 pm makes it impossible for me to go to the O2. The match will certainly start at 8.15 and may go on for 2-3 hours. Far too late for me to get home.
he will surely have some day matches
Yeah he will have some day matches.
@Ricky, is there any schedule or something for practice sessions here at the O2?
i didn’t see one last year. maybe they will have it this year. I will let you know if I see one.
http://s18.postimg.org/xi30sfy6v/barclays_atp_world_tour_finals_20151112_213922_0.jpg