Novak Djokovic and Kevin Anderson will be squaring off for the seventh time in their careers when they battle for the Wimbledon title on Sunday afternoon.
Djokovic is leading the head-to-head series 5-1, including 1-0 at the All-England Club. That’s where they last met, with a 2015 fourth-round showdown going the way of the Serb–who battled back from a two-set deficit to prevail 6-7(6), 6-7(6), 6-1, 6-4, 7-5 on his eventual way to the title. He has won five in a row at Anderson’s expense since losing a three-setter 10 years ago at the Miami Masters.
Win or lose, this fortnight has put an exclamation point on Djokovic’s resurgence following a period of inactivity and an injury-plagued slump. The world No. 21 set the table for it by showing tons of improvement during the clay-court swing, with a semifinal showing in Rome and a quarterfinal performance at the French Open. He finished runner-up to Marin Cilic at Queen’s Club before maintaining his fine grass-court form through five mostly routine Wimbledon matches against Tennys Sandgren, Horacio Zeballos, Kyle Edmund, Karen Khachanov, and Kei Nishikori. Djokovic then took his comeback to new heights by outlasting Rafael Nadal 6-4, 3-6, 7-6(9), 3-6, 10-8 in a semifinal thriller played on both Friday and Saturday.
The 12-time major champion may not have a full tank of gas for the final, but it’s safe to say that Anderson is also running low on energy. Not only did he famously survive John Isner 7-6(6), 6-7(5), 6-7(9), 6-4, 26-24 in the second-longest match in tournament history on Friday, but he also preceded that result by stunning Roger Federer 2-6, 6-7(5), 7-5, 6-4, 13-11 in the quarterfinals. Anderson has also advanced in SW19 with more straightforward defeats of Norbert Gombos, Andreas Seppi, Philipp Kohlschreiber, and Gael Monfils.
This is a nightmare matchup for Anderson, because Djokovic arguably wields the best service return in the game. Nadal probably would have been the 6’8” South African’s preferred opponent, because even though the Spaniard’s baseline game is every bit as good as Djokovic’s, his return of serve is not in the same ballpark. Thus Anderson would have had an easier time inducing short returns out of Nadal and dictating play on a more consistent basis.
And when Nadal is a more favorable matchup, that’s not a good thing for Anderson. After all, he got trounced by the world No. 1 in his only previous Grand Slam final at last summer’s U.S. Open. Another rough day for Anderson could be in the cards against a former world No. 1 who has won this event three times.
Pick: Djokovic in 3
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WYG?
Djokovic in 3. Similar scoreline as the uso 17 final
Clearly a great opportunity Novak, he doesn’t play many finals against guys who haven’t won slams. In fact, of his 21 GS finals so far, he’s only played one (!) against a non-GS winner (Tsonga). Fed and Rafa have each had a bunch of them.
You’d think the only things that could get to him would be nerves and fitness. But those could easily be big problems for Anderson too. Both guys looked pretty good at the conclusion of their semi-finals, but you have to wonder about whether the carry-over effects will impact on the quality of this match.
For a big guy, Anderson must surely be feeling it after his Isner marathon, but either way I’m very impressed with his fitness lately. Also, despite not having nerves of steel by any means (see e.g. the FH capitulation against Diego at RG) his resolve has been really good against Isner and Fed. Guess that US Open beating by Rafa has spurred him on.
For Djokovic, he has to be feeling it too after consecutive days play of like 2.5hrs against Nadal. Some reasonably long and grinding rallies, that’s gotta be somewhat draining. Still, he’s had a bit of time to work up his fitness, and he’s not that far off his best now. Mentally, things might be a bit harder than they usually are since he hasn’t played a final for a little while now. However on the big points against Nadal he looked reasonably good, definitely better than at RG.
Given all that, I’ll back Djokovic in 4. I think Anderson will fight tooth and nail, but physically Novak stands a good chance of breaking him down with the returns.
test
Something is not working here. I’ve tried unsuccessfully to post my prediction on this match for hours. Anderson in 4.
+1
Agree, upset is on the cards. It takes courage to make these types of calls.
Anderson has gone 5 sets against Djokovic at Wimbledon and lead by 2 sets when Djokovic was arguably in better form and Anderson is a better player now.
Anderson will have accumulated fatigue from 2 long matches but will at least get a days rest.
Total distance covered –
Anderson in QF + SF: 7628.5 m
Djokovic in just the SF alone: 6051.7 m
In consideration of the above, I’m removing fitness out of the equation.
Federer and Isner were strong formlines
Anderson should have his serve dialled in after the Isner match.
Anderson should be able to win at least a set.
+3.5 sets is the play and upset could be on the cards (Anderson in 5) but the most likely result is Djokovic in 4 for reasons outlined in the preview.
Anderson now has experience in finals. Anderson will feel he has nothing to lose after the Isner match and don’t think he’ll experience much nerves.
Bookies opened betting at 1.20 for Djokovic knowing the market would gladly gobble up the 20% when really the probability should be priced at 1.40-1.50.
Completely agree. Huge value on Anderson in a close to 50/50 match.
This match can be won by Kevin Anderson. He is very hungry and has always given Novak a tough time. …. http://www.138mph.com/wimbledon-mens-final-2018-novak-djokovic-versus-kevin-anderson-preview-and-prediction/
This will be only Djokovic’s 2nd ever grand slam final against somebody not named either Andy Murray, Rafa Nadal, Riger federer or Stan wawrinka…
The previous predictions were wrong …I hope this one is wrong
too……
Both players deserve this trophy but I hope Novak wins it, he was amazing against Rafa and if he loses this trophy too bad.
That’s right, he’s served his purpose already. He spoiled the party for “Mr. I want everything for me”
😂
Djokovic in three
Wow! It is going to be interesting going forward how this Djokovic is going to match up against Fed 3.0. He is back to returning everything and also is serving lights out.
Fed and Rafa both must be feeling uneasy thinking about the imminent return of a top-notch Nole
If you’re referring to this final match, then no, it’s more to do with Anderson’s poor serving than Djoko’s returns. Anderson has trainer to treat his arm, not a good sign.
Exactly lucky. Djokovic is not showing anything special. Kevin is playing quite disastrously. It’s a walk in the park until now. Let’s see if Anderson can get into this match.
This final may turn out to be another damp squib like last year’s, judging by how things go so far; I wonder how much a final ticket cost, is it worth the money?
Isner ruined Nadal’s chances.
Isner ruined Anderson’s chances.
Isner ruined the Wimbledon final.
Isner is a pox on tennis.
If Isner can ruin chances of so many players, I believe he is the new GOD of Tennis, that he can ruin chances of players whom he did not even play against.
he played against Anderson…
I think he means Isner ruined Nadals chances by making him and Andersons match so long, that Nadal and Djokovic had to play under the roof. Which imo. is a silly excuse, as Djokovic was the better man all tournament and also in the match. The conditions were the same for both, and Nadal played one of his best grass matches against Djokovic and Djokovic were still the better man.
There’s certainly some truth in that
Anderson is tired, no doubt. But Djokovic is making sure he feels the tiredness too with the relentless pressure on the return.
The guy is a marvel to watch except when he plays Rafa 😀
This win is going to give a new boost to Djoker. Lets be fair to Roger and Rafa. If Djoker is 90% firing they wont be winning 6 slams like they did in a year and half. Especially Fed cant win 2 AO out of the blue.
Huh? Why when he plays against Rafa, he’s not a marvel to watch?
I meant when he plays Rafa, it is hard to appreciate when Rafa is at the receiving end
For a guy who was so exasperated after the French saying he would not play on grass, this is a tremendous result- final at queens with MP and probably wimbledon champion.
And the scary part is his beloved hard court season is about to start and he has zero points to defend :O
🤗
Only have scores but have to remember it’s not time to celebrate until it’s over!
The first two sets are not a guarantee. But I’m pretty happy about it!
Idemo Nole!
Happy to see Nole has found his game again rc.
He deserves this as much as anybody no doubt.
Yes he is.
I like it when he plays Rafa.
Djokovic may win the final without facing a BP just like Rafa did at the open
Anderson also has himself to blame too! I mean he had his chances serving for the third set after breaking serve yet he lost his serve when during the whole set up to that point, he was holding serves successfully. Had he won the third set, it’s highly likely that he would win the match in four, and I feel he should have saved some energy for the final.
I really think that he’s throwing his chances away, and how many more chances he will have, when he’s already 32? Djoko isn’t playing fantastic tennis at the moment, he doesn’t have to,
It’s the second (or was it third) year that Wimbledon men’s final was/is won in straight sets with no excitement, no thrills ( unless you’re a fan of the champion), kind of boring.
This final will end before the World Cup final starts. I hope the World Cup Final doesn’t disappoint.
Anderson had treatment on his arms, clearly affected by his ace serving match vs Isner!
Obviously.
I actually don’t understand Anderson’s mentality. Why it took him so long to discover his great level of play, esp against Fed in the QF; why when facing MP then he could produce his best tennis? The same thing happened in the fourth set of the SF vs Isner.
Are we going to see that now in the third set? Come on, at least make it more interesting, fight!
give him a break
Some fans are forgetting that Djoker had no rest yesterday and Anderson had. Djoker had a more physical SF than Anderson. Better to appreciate Djoker’s fitness and relentlessness than badmouthing Anderson. I did not see the same comments when Anderson was playing average tennis in laster USO 2017 Finals.
True, Novak has stamina.
Novak had a tougher match in some respects (including distance covered), but it’s about the serving arm. It’s like a baseball pitcher who goes way over his pitch count. Anderson’s arm was shot for the first two sets of the final, though he started to get it back a bit in the 3rd.
spread out over 2 days is a massive difference
It won’t disappoint.
Who are you rooting for?
This was a disappointing Wimbledon for me, to say the least 😂
was by far the best men’s Grand Slam in the last 2-3 years
no
I agree, Ricky. It was at least the best since AO 2017. Arguably better. Although having a dud final never helps a tournament’s cause, no matter how incredible everything leading up was. AO 2017 had some good match-ups, lot of five-setters, and an epic final.
Personally I’d say this one was equal to AO 2017, at least in terms of narrative. Both had pretty feel-good endings in terms of guys winning who had struggled recently with fitness and/or their tennis level. Both had two Big 4 guys in the business end. Both had 2 five-set semifinals, with Rafa’s win over Dimitrov being a classic match, and then the Isner-Anderson record-breaker in this tournament. I don’t know. Overall they were both great, imo. I fully understand if Rafa fans don’t agree with me, as Rafa ultimately lost in both those tournaments despite playing really well and going deep…
But you Rafans get to have the fact that your guy was in the greatest match EVER, and he WON it haha. 🙂 That’s pretty much the best thing you could ask for, in terms of single moments in history.
AO 17 was definitely better than Wimby.
Isntner ruined both semis and the final.
Any slam where isntner goes deep is by definition damaged goods.
One to grow on.
Can’t say I agree, Ricky. Nadal-Dimitrov at AO was every bit as good as Nadal-Djokovic, and Fed had some great matches leading up to the final at AO. And of course there’s no comparison between the two finals.
wrong (again)
How many set points has Djojovic saved now.
KA can’t match it with the top 3 on the big points. They raise their game to another level and rarely hut UEs. Fed had an off day and looked lethargic.
Anderson deserved 3rd set, but it is what is is. Huge congrats to Djokovic. Welcome back to the top.
no reason to delay the inevitable. we’ve already had enough of that this tournament.
Congrats to Nole. Tennis needs him to avoid another Weak Era.
Happy for your guy rc!
Thank you Hawks. I’m normally not this happy 😀
Oh God!…And just like that he won!…What a champ!!…Much congrats to Nole & his No 1 fan here…RC!!!!!….Enjoy it RC!!…Your wish come true!
At least Anderson made it more competitive in the third set. Well done to Djoko, commies to Anderson. I guess with Djoko/Rafa around, Anderson won’t be winning any slam. Perhaps he has already maximized his full potential.
We have a few tall guys in the TOP ten – Delpo, Cilic, Anderson, Isner, A Zverev, in fact half of the TOP ten are giants! They have great serves, probably that helps.
And vice versa. Height helps a lot with the great serves! Roger has a great serve without being a giant but his depends more on placement.
Congrats to Novak Djokovic!
When he is fit you can always count on him especially when he faces Rafa.
This tournament was nice, take care guys.
When he is fir he ran Fed ragged as well. Remember Wimby 2014 and 2015. USO 2015.
AO2016 too
what a beauty this djoker is. saving tennis from the moonballer nadull and servebots! well done my son!
You are right. He is the grassgoat.
nope, Roger and Sampras are.
You know who owns Fed-Djoker HTH on Wimbledon . Its Djoker . In fact he has won both the finals, matches which count the most. How can GOAT lose 2 out of 2 finals to someone. Samprs never lost that, but Fed did.
Your stats are not good. Maybe time to go back to school and stay put !
Go crawl back under a rock!
Maybe more meds? Nah, I don’t think it’s going to help. What a sorry excuse for a human being. So much hate. Very corrosive.
My last post was for loser grassgoat who is so freaked out by the prospect of Rafa catching Fed in slam titles that he has gone off the deep end! LOL!
Don’t worry! Rafa ain’t going anywhere! Loser!
+ 1 nny!
the same applies to his fellow trolls Jim and stanley!
I didn’t even watch the final!
Amy next time you mention my name in a negative way I will treat you the same.
I have tried to be nice and respectful even though you don’t deserve it.
Please stop this nonsense.
If you can’t say sweet things about me 🤣 then plzzzzzzz Shhh… 🤐! Please!
I will like us to be friends if it’s possible but if it’s not it’s ok.
Just don’t act like…… it’s not right.
Stanley, i wouldn’t get stressed b/c some cougar fixated on the moonballer doesn’t think well of you 🙂
amy,
Right on! I did not watch the final either. I would much rather focus on Rafa’s great play and how hard he fought! Very proud of him! So much hatred from a few miserable souls who have no life! It’s really such a shame that they have to waste their energy just because their idol did not win Wimbledon this year. Tsk, tsk!
By the way, there was a lot of coverage of the protests against the orange fascist in your country! Love the Brits! The Secret Service had to get him out of London because of the overwhelming protests. Well done! Then they turned up in Scotland with the baby Trump giant balloon! They followed him everywhere!
It did my heart good to see people dumping on him because it deserves all of it and more!
So glad you appreciated the show we put on nny!
This is the first time in 13 years I haven’t watched the wimby final! No-one in my neighbourhood was watching either!
I wrote some stuff this morning on the nada l Djokovic thread which expresses how i am feeling right now. Please have a look and let me know what you think! Xxxx
Lol
amy,
I read your comments and much of the discussion. I think that the roof should have been kept open and then closed for darkness. They should have had it open the next day. There is no rule about the conditions staying the same, from what I read. No darkness, therefore no need for the roof. That made no sense to me.
However, I think the match was so close that it’s hard to say that the roof being closed determined the outcome. This match could have gone either way. Rafa had his chances. What I don’t like are these stupid rules, like having to stop at 11:00 pm. They need to revise some of these arbitrary rules.
The bottom line is that the scheduling was atrocious. Rafa and Novak should have played first. When they realized that the first semi was going too long, they Djoker I’ll have moved it to court one and brought Rafa and Novak out on center court. It was handled terribly and the players were the ones who suffered.
Rafa’s failure to win the third set and then convert break chances in the fifth set, were what cost him the match. Also, the five set match with Delpo became a factor once the semi extended over two days. I think Rafa potentially having to play three days in a row with two five set matches, was a big problem.
The good news is that Rafa played a great match and pushed it to the limit. He is healthy and his game is really very good right now. He got his best result at Wimbledon in seven years. Bad scheduling and decisions from the organizers made it very hard for him. But we should look be looking forward to the NA summer hardcourt season.
I don’t ever want to sink to the level of the few trashy low lifed who come on here to hate. The few who are so obsessed with worshipping a player that they resort to hatespeak when his rival has a chance to get closer to his slam total. God forbid we ever end up like those worthless excuses for human beings.
Amy,
Sorry one part of my post got garbled by autocorrect. It was in the third paragraph, where I was trying to say that they should have moved the first semi to court one and had Rafa and Novak come out on center court to start playing. *
But if they had finished it outdoors it would have become a different kind of match nny…where the sunny and breezy conditions would have favoured rafa. He has far more control than Nole in the breeze with his topspin and the ball would have bounced higher making it more difficult to control. Also Nole is less likely to have been able to serve so many aces.
I think the conditions made a crucial difference and just about every commentator including Becker thought the same..wimby is supposed to be an outdoor tournament!!
Perhaps Djoko may one day become the GrassGoat! I think he can win another four or five more Wimbledon, as it seems no one can stop him!
possible but less likely. if it does happen i’ll be 1st to embrace the new grassgoat!
No you won’t! You are no tennis fan. Just a sexist misogynist who makes degrading comments about Rafa’s female fans. We are tennis fans first and foremost. Unlike a ln ignoramus like you. You know nothing, only how to gratuitously insult female fans on this site. Which says a lot about who and what you are.
Get some therapy!
With all respect, NNY, what kind of tennis fans are you and Amy if you don’t bother to watch the Wimbledon final?
With all respect, I, for one, fail to see your respect.
Ok, no respect.
Sorry. Not sorry.
With all DUE respect.
At least Joe makes an effort to show respect, unlike some…
no
I would say Djoko most likely the grass goat as there’s no one to stop him from winning Wimbledon for the next five years! He’s also the HC goat as he’s bound to overtake Fed at the HC slams and WTF, as again, there’s no one to stop him. Djoko will end as the ultimate Goat as he’ll dominate others on grass and HCs, which no other player could do!
Its not going to be easy still for Djoker. He is back but still he is outside top 8 . He might be top 8 till USO , I am sure everyone wants that. I have my doubts if Djoker had a draw like Rafa and Roger where he would have met DelPo, Anderson or even Isner and Kyrgios in QF, he would have struggled in SF.
People should realize that no matter how good these top players are, they need easy matches till QF. Noone can win two consecutive five-setters or two tough matches at the fag end of the major.
Lets see how Djoker plays the hard court swing. I believe the biggest disappointment for 2018 have been Dimitrov and Goffin. These guys dont deserve to be in top 10.Dimitrov is the most overrated player in men’s tennis and probably in the last decade.
The problem with Dimitrov is he has zero consistency and has the mental strength of a walnut.
I agree about Dimi. Can’t say it any better than Benny G just did!
Not really fair, when he’s at his best , he’s hard to stop for anyone.
Problem is, he’s either at his best or the opposite!
Fedexal- I don’t know if it was a typo or not, but you said “the fag end of the major.”
I laughed my ass off because I assumed it was a silly typo. But if it was intentional, I’d appreciate an explanation of what the “fag end” of a major is… 😅
Why was my reply to this deleted? Is this part of some new anti-bad language software, Ricky?
“Fag” is British slang for cigarette; “fag-end” is just the end of the cigarette.
i’ll raise my glass to djoker becoming the ultimate goat! as long as he keeps trashing the moonballer who with his tio toni irreversibly destroyed tennis just to (most likely) be saved by the judge Julia Patricia Santamaria who ordered blood bags be destroyed!
I’m no Nadal fan, but there is no good reason to think he was doping based on that case. If he was, he is the world’s balliest, most shameless bluffer ever:
http://en.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/205938.html
I also don’t think you can say that Rafa was moonballing in this tournament. He played more aggressively than Novak did in that SF.
Agree with the praise for Djokovic, though imo it’s very unlikely that he will ever be the ultimate GOAT.
It’s certainly possible, Lucky. After RG 2016, I was absolutely convinced that Novak would end up with more
major titles than both Rafa and Fed. I’m not so sure about it anymore, but he showed the last couple weeks that he is much closer to where he was pre-RG 2016.
Just because of the fact that he seemed so insanely unstoppable, but then completely fell off the map for 2 years straight, I don’t really see how we can suddenly saw that “no one can stop him now”… Rafa just came extremely close to beating him. Fed could potentially be entering the inevitable old-guy decline that most other players have around 33 or so, but it’s just hard to know right now. Assuming Fed doesn’t play again until Cincinnati, then he would go into the US Open having only played in one warm-up tourney, and he will hopefully not be struggling with his back like he was last year in the summer HC. So who knows? If he physically can keep it together, and the US Open courts aren’t insanely slow, he definitely has as good a shot as anyone.
I’m not ready to say that there’s no one that can stop him because he’s only won 1 major in over two years now. If he starts dominating again and wins the US Open, then I could understand. But the guy just lost pretty horribly at RG only a month ago, and at nearly every major before that for 2 years.
I know he’s CAPABLE of not being stopped because we’ve seen it before in recent years. But have to see the guy keep up this level a LITTLE longer at the very least… He and Rafa are clearly not far apart at all. And who knows what Fed’s deal is.
I guess I’m just trying to say that we have seen Novak lose to a lot of players he shouldn’t lose to up until this one tournament. It is arguably the biggest tournament you can win, and he has to take a buttload of confidence from it. But how can we just assume that everything will go well for him now when it hasn’t always worked out that way?
Kevin,
Great post! I feel the way you do. It’s too soon to start tagging Djoker to win everything again. This is a great win for him and he has found his game and the passion. But Rafa is not going anywhere. He showed that his game is better than ever. Fed should be able to regroup after his surprise loss at Wimby and be ready for the USO.
Novak will get a big boost of confidence out of this and be ready to move on to the USO.
Kevin, Djokovic was never insanely unstoppable. He was very, very good, but had close matches in slams and elsewhere, losing sometimes. There is no chance that his record over the next 5 years is going to look like his record from 2011-2016.
Joe, there’s no need to; he just has to win 8 or 9 slams more without even needing to dominate the whole season. Also, the 2011-2016 Djoko era was a much tougher one with the big four at full steam. Now, two of the big four are fading, his biggest spoiler at a slam final, ie Stan is also fading. The lost gen couldn’t do much to stop him, the next gen are not ready.
He can beat the big serving/ hard hitting guys; Kyrgios who happened to beat Djoko twice when Djoko was in a slump, will most likely continue with his own erratic way.. The next gen guys are not ready. As for Rafa, he may stop Djoko at the FO, and perhaps the USO since Djoko’s success rate at the USO finals was relatively poor (2/7 ie 29%).
At the AO and Wimbledon, I think he’ll dominate. He may be the next dominant player at Wimbledon since Fed. I mean he had beaten Fed at the final twice, had beaten Rafa twice (one final and one SF). The AO is his backyard, he’ll most likely win many more there, la decima perhaps?
Djokovic “just needs to win 8 or 9 slams more”?! 9 slams in a *career* would put a male player 6th in the all time slam list for the open era. Novak is 31. He’s not winning 9 more slams, or 8, or probably 4. If he wins 2 or 3 more, he will have done well, imo.
Joe, the trio of Fed, Rafa and Djoko could ‘defy logic’!. Who would have thought that Fed at 35/36 could win three slams? And Rafa too at age 32 could still dominate at the FO when people predicted his career would finish early.
The way Djoko is playing, I doubt many players could stop him. As long as he keeps himself fit and healthy, doesn’t push himself to the limit just because he wishes to dominate the tour the way he did in the past, winning that many slams is possible imo.
I mean, he’s very strong in at least two of the four slams – AO and Wimbledon – and has good records in the other two. If for the next four years, he’s able to win two slams a year, isn’t it possible that he wins 8 more slams?
Ironically, Fedal doing so well now may have inspired Djoko to do the same too, now that he’s also in his thirties.
Maybe, Lucky, we’ll see. But I very much doubt that any of them will win too many more slams One of them might win three at the outside, imo. Nadal at RG is obviously the best bet, but as you know I didn’t think he looked unbeatable this year like he did last, and next year I suspect he will be less formidable still. I really don’t think he will win that tournament in 2021.
Lucky, I believe it’s fair to say that you’re getting *way* ahead of yourself. No one to stop Djokovic from winning Wimbledon for the next *5* years, at which time he will be 36? Seriously?
Joe, even if Djoko won’t win slams at age 35, it’s still highly likely that he may win at Wimbledon to get six, or seven titles. He’s great on HCs so another few more HC slams is possible. WTF? He dominated there and only missed the WTF last year. He’ll most likely qualify for it again this year, so it’s not difficult to see him winning a few more! He may even outlast Rafa, and after Rafa retires, he may get one more FO!
So, who will be the Goat?
Sure, it’s possible that Djokovic will win a few more slams. That’s a lot weaker claim than saying that there’s no one to stop him from winning Wimbledon for the next 5 years.
If they played wimby over starting in a week, I’d still pick Fed to win it over Novak.
Who will be the GOAT between the big 3 once they’ve all stopped playing? I don’t know, though I think it will be Fed if there is one (more likely people will divide their judgments according to surface). At the moment, Djokovic is great but has a realistic claim to being the GOAT only on HC indoor, where he and Fed are pretty even.
Realistic claim? Well he’ll certainly win more HC slams, maybe four or even five more, and so he may get at least 12-13 HC slams, so he’ll be the HC Goat. One more FO, and one more Wimbledon, and he’ll solidify his position as the Ultimate Goat! Not forgetting the Masters where he’ll start winning at again.
I meant a realistic claim at present. If Novak wins 5 more HC slams (and Fed no more), he’ll have a good claim to be HC GOAT with the lead he’ll presumably have in masters.
Like I said, to speculate about all of this is to get well ahead of yourself.
Joe, I’ll be honest. Im truly impressed by Djoko this Wimbledon, and why? Because as I watched his matches this Wimbledon (though I must say he had relatively easy draw right up to the QF, only Rafa was his biggest obstacle to the title here), I was impressed by his movement, his retrieving, his serves and returns, and yet he’s not back to his great level before his injury.
You watched how he retrieved almost impossible shots Rafa hit to him, he just threw a moonball of a shot back at Rafa and could quickly get back into position and time and again, he could just repeat that. I asked myself, who’s the ultimate retriever and who’s the ultimate grinder? Not Rafa, but Djoko! Rafa in this match was the aggressor, not the grinder and yet he still lost albeit by a very narrow margin.
Even when we disregard the closed roof (this favouring Djoko’s play as he hit flatter shots and so without the elements involved he could hit with more precision and served with more precision), Rafa was playing at a high level (his fitness could be compromised a bit after his 4+hours match vs Delpo, which to me could have ended an hour or so earlier if not for Rafa’s own mistake in the TB) and if not for that mistake in the TB (TB again) he would have won the third set and would lead 2-1 before they suspended the match. Yet, when play resumed the next day, Rafa was still the better player, created more chances to break serve to take the lead in the fifth and time and again he failed because of Djoko’s great serve. To me Rafa was playing at a high level and yet Djoko was able to beat him.
I said before the match, that I expected Rafa to beat Djoko in four sets; Rafa could make that happen if not for the changed playing conditions (which I did not expect all thanks to Anderson/Isner). Had Rafa won the third set, it could still happen but Rafa did not win the TB.
Bear in mind Djoko can still improve to get better than he is now as he hasn’t reached his previous great level yet, and by that I don’t mean 2015, but say 2012-2014 level (which to me was already scarily good).
Rafa had already done his best but still fell short (though some things were out of his control). To me, only Fed and Rafa could stop Djoko at this Winbledon, too bad things didn’t work well for both of them and so no Fedal on the tenth anniversary of their famous 2008 classic. Anderson could offer more resistance if only he could end his SF match earlier; too bad he didn’t. All things worked in favor of Djoko here, and he gladly took his chances and won.
PS. I really feel Fed was hard done by the Wimbledon committee’s decision to put him in Court 1 for his QF. Had he and Anderson played at CC, I strongly believe he would beat Anderson, because Anderson had not played at CC at all before the QF, so it would be advantage Fed, not Anderson unlike at Court 1.
Rafa will always be the Goat on clay and so Rafa’s generation have produced two Goats. We may have to wait a long time for players like them to appear again.
The way both of them play when at their best, there really aren’t anyone who could stop them! Djoko at 80-90% could win at Wimbledon, what more if he’s at 100% fitness and game wise! Rafa too, at 100% on clay, he’s hammering everyone; this clay season he wasn’t at last year’s level, and he’s still beating everyone for the FO title.
They may have another three to five years at the top (Rafa perhaps a bit shorter), as the Sasha generation needs time to mature as players, so there’re plenty of opportunities for the two of them to sweep up more slams. Anderson, Cilic or Delpo? They have been beaten or blocked by the big three time and again at the slams; Murray and Stan are still recovering from injuries and Im not sure they will come back to win slams again.
The Kei/Raonic generation is disappointing, among them, they made three slam finals – Raonic once at Wimbledon, Kei at USO and Thiem (if I may put him in this generation) at FO – and that’s about all. They’re aged in mid to late 20s, do they still have time to win the big titles before the next gen players reach their prime?
Right (again).
Queue another “Well Lucky I have to disagree” condescending post…
Hopefully Murray will have something to say about grassgoat!
No need for Fed to say anything, he’s just the overall GOAT.
Not for long!
That sounds like a tacit admission that currently he is.
Nah, I’m speaking from your point of view, since you believe in it!
LS, what do you mean?
Fed hasn’t been the GOAT for long, or not for much longer?
Big Al, since you all are the ones who believe that Fed is Goat, then I’ll say he won’t stay there for long. For those who don’t believe he’s the Goat, then they’ll wait for the real Goat to appear, and that’ll probably take another few years.
Im just going on numbers of Slam titles. Which is the most popular criteria for GOAT -dom.
What a statement .The real goat will appear in few years, like he’s some kind of messiah?
Fed is the Goat , for now, that’s all .
Sorry, I shouldn’t say ‘to appear’, wrong choice of words. It should read as ‘the real Goat status will be confirmed in a few years time’, I think that sounds about right, as he’s currently the Goat in the making.
Hindsight after Fed, Rafa, and Nole have all retired will reveal who took the Lions share. No one will ever top what Rafa has done on clay tho. And I believe Rafa will top Fed’s GS count. I doubt Nole will get 7 more GS titles – but there is at last a visible fire burning in him to get to his best again – and he said why: his son can be there watching and comprehending. Stefan shouting “daddy, daddy” when daddy was holding the Trophy is the happiest I’ve seen Novak Djokovic in a long, long time. His will to win has returned.
Nole could get another AO or two and perhaps another Wimbledon. No one will beat Rafa at FO — easily there is 3 more of those for Rafa and perhaps 2 more USO’s, another Wimbledon. Not sure about AO.
All this speculation is predicated on none of the next Gen’s being able step up to do much while Rafa, Nole, and even a healthy Murray, Cilic, and Delpo (or Stan?) are around. Roger? I’ll be dang if he wins another GS. He could, I suppose. But he is really showing his age.
This guy is funny.
Grassgoat you make me laugh everytime.
I am a little busy so later.
Everyone is going overboard with Djok sweeping all but the US open hardcourts are the hardest to win since hardcourts are everyone’s favorite surface. I remember him losing his fair share of finals there too. If he wins the US open, then we’re talking a major head of steam but there’s a long way to go to that.
The tall big servers are slowing getting their teeth in. Cilic, Del Potro and especially Zverev are going to be big threats to anyone on any given day. Anderson and Kyrgios are pushing too. I find it funny to see so many basically ignoring Zverev. He’s going through his Murray phase where he’s going deep in the masters but struggling in the Slams. If he keeps playing well in the Masters, there is just no way he won’t break through in slams. It’s so easy to compare him to Dimitrov and say he nothing is guaranteed, but Dimitrov has barely ever shown any consistency in masters. He just randomly shows up in a slam semifinal, plays half-decent, gets beat and everyone thinks he’s arrived. He won the the WTF without really breaking through against the big guys and you have to do that at some point. You beat these heavyweights in 2 sets out of 3 often enough, and you’ll make the plunge to winning in best of five.
To me, Zverev might not win a slam until the big four is either retired or all 35 or older. The dude seems to lack the confidence he exudes at masters events when he is at the slams and often shows little heart in deciding sets. But the main argument for his grand slam struggles is his fitness and durability at a young age. If it’s his fitness, then that will surely improve and maybe he will be winning slams sooner than later. I’m not so sure it’s just fitness though. To be honest, Zverev reminds me of a better and younger version of Berdych. Like Tomas, he hits very clean and big from the baseline with a tall frame and is a serious threat to anybody in best of three format. But what he lacks most of all is VARIETY. Zverev only has one speed, and that hurts him in the longer matches because when the going gets tough in best of five, you need to be able to adapt to certain situations and opposing playstyles and he seems to have a problem doing so with what seems to me like a pretty one dimensional game. Plus, it can’t be ignored that he has risen as high as 3 in the world while Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic, Nishikori etc. have all dealt with serious injuries, creating an opening for a guy like Zverev to climb the rankings and maybe become a bit overrated. Just my personal take on Mr. Masters 1000.
Its been a great Wimbledon, but I don’t think its the best Slam in the last few years. What I mean, the big matches didn’t have much contrast in styles, apart from the final, which was disappointing .
I think AO 2017 is a strong contender for best Slam in the past few years.
What contrast in style?? Rafa/Delpo was a great match; Rafa/Djoko too. Or maybe you think only a Fed/Djoko or Fedal match would give you the variety that you want?
Federer and Nadal would be the first ones wanting Djoker to move to top 4 so that it rules out the possibility of facing in QF of Masters Series or major.
Good part is DelPo is now inside top4. Cilic is outside top4 now.
There’s one more stats that Djoko may be ahead of Fedal, I’m waiting to see if that happens. Another 20 matches more and I’ll get the answer.
Road is not going to be easy for Rafa going forward in non-clay slams. Fed has got mental edge back against him , if Djoker finds his old form, Rafa could face some difficulties beating these players. And in Rafa’s career, there has never been a time where both Fed and Djoker were slightly favorites against him which could be the case going forward.
As I’ve said, I don’t think Rafa will win another non-clay slam. If he does, I’ll be the first to say I was wrong.
I don’t think Djoko will suroay Nadal’s slam count. He’ll probably win 2-3 more slams. O more. He will play well, but wil be stopped often by younger generation. We’ll comment about that in a couple of years.
After Fedal and Djokovic retire, I’m expecting for a lucky GOAT analysis.
I only just read some of the comments higher up thread today. Some of those by lucky could have been written by Nole fans or those who hate and seek to demean him . She even said rafa had agreed with the roof being closed when we all know he was unhappy about it! How on earth does PAscal Maria refusing to water the court in the fifth set of RG equal them playing the entire match ie all five sets of it indoors! There is no comparison! It’s especially unfortunate to bring up that fifth set at Rg imo. Cheryl said she still believed that if they had played the match outdoors Rafa would have won in 4…I agree and I also think that if they had opened the roof on Saturday he would have won it and much more quickly as well.
I don’t normally read tennis x but I had a look at it today and it’s full of gloating Nole fans with silly names. They are using the watering the court in the fifth set at Rg as well…I wonder if they are repeating what they read here!!!
Amy, if Rafa disagreed on the spot, you think they would still insist on having the roof closed? The rule is such that both players have to agree, if not why do you think Djoko had the right to decide? On what basis he got to decide?? If Rafa was unhappy and voiced out that he disagreed, then perhaps they would let the match continue with the roof open. I doubt Rafa and Djoko would argue or quarrel over it.
They (Rafa and Djoko) should voice out their unhappiness over not being able to start their match earlier, perhaps on another court which then play would be outdoors when there’s daylight and no rain.
The Djoko fans, if they want to gloat, let them gloat, it’s not the first time that they gloat. The same could be said of the Fed and the Rafa fans too, may not be at this site but at others.
Lucky rafa did say he wanted the roof open and Nole said he wanted it closed. Because they started with the roof closed they allowed Nole ‘s decision to override rafa’s!
This was all explained out in the open by the BBC with Becker chortling away saying ‘of course Novak wants the roof open because he knows it gives him the advantage.’
Rafa had no choice but to go along and he said afterwards that wimby was an outdoor tournament and they should have opened the roof on Saturday!
Apparently playing under the hot midday sun was like being in a greenhouse with high humidity!
I meant to say ‘ of course Novak wants the roof closed!’
Ok Amy, if that’s the case it’s not Rafa’s fault for not voicing out. It’s too bad that Wimbledon made such a stupid rule but the most frustrating part is that they didn’t allow their SF to start on Court 1 when everyone could see that the Anderson/Isner match was going to last for almost forever!
If they really started at Court 1, Rafa would most likely won in four sets before darkness set in. I can understand why the frustration over Djoko’s decision, and he’s doing that to maximize his chances of winning, perhaps even desperately wanting to win.
I think the players, or Rafa himself should call for such a stupid rule to be changed. I’d argued with Joe or someone else about having the match in indoor conditions in bright daylight and sunshine and how uncomfortable it would be for everyone – the spectators and the players. Even with air conditioning, it’s not enough to cut out the heat and humidity (greenhouse effect).
Like I said, everything worked in Djoko’s favor this Wimbledon – the Isner/Anderson match took so long that Rafa/Djoko had to play in indoor environment; Anderson being too tired to fight in the final after his long SF; the stupid Wimbledon rule, both Fed/Rafa getting tough QF opponents, that Fed was eliminated unexpectedly (and I would think Fed need not take 6+ hours to finish off Isner had Fed reached the SF and so Rafa/Djoko would get to play in daylight and outdoors on CC) etc all played into Djoko’s hands and he gladly took the chances to win the title.
I meant to post this on the nadal Djokovic thread! I meant the comments further up thread there!
Rafa and Djoker agreed to play indoors after a long SF. I am wondering if one of the players disagreed at that time , would they have played indoors ?
I don’t think they were given any choice about it!
Then they should have decided on their own for the next day as well. Why take Djoker’s preference ? If a match under sun can be played under roof under specific conditions why not vice-versa.
Anyway they did not finish the match on Friday, what the hell Wimbledon was trying to achieve. Its high time players start boycotting such major which is played under stupid traditions and they have to bow it Duke of kent everytime who had been a drugist all his life. I would rather have players bow to a Brtish Bulldog than a drugist.
they had no choice on Day 1
To end the GOAT debate, if GOAT can be decided on slam count only, and given how fiercely Rafa-Fed match was fought in AO 2017 and also this Wimby semi-finals between Rafa-Djoker, and lot of close matches beforehand as well, one has to say that GOAT debate is a matter of few points over these 3 guys career !
This itself proves that they all are of the same class and there does not exist any GOAT. GOAT should never be decided by handful of points and that too over 3 players 15 year careers.
Good point. In a direct encounter someone get 1 slam and the other player 0. But their class is about the same level. Think about the Big 3 slam matches that were decided on a couple of points. A GOAT has to be clearly the best one. And in this case, there is too little to separate them.
I wonder if we attribute 1 point to every QF slam phase, 2 points for the SF, 3 points the runner and 5 to the winner, how would that look like for Big 3? I should do that when I have time. Because the slam count doesn’t tell the whole story. Look at Murray…how many finals he lost to Djoko.
Any idea how many five-setters Murray has lost to Djoker, Fed and Rafa. How many of those were even close ? I believe Murray has featured in lot of finals but most of them have been one sided, part from a couple maybe.
Just count how many QFs, SFs, Fs and Ws they made. Clearly Fed has the most points as he has played for at least three to four years more. He has played in 73 slams by now, vs Rafa’s 53 and Djoko’s 54.
Fed made 30 finals winning 20; Rafa made 24 finals winning 17; Djoko made 22 finals winning 13. Got to check the no.of SFs and QFs made.
Eugene, I think if you did that method, then Federer would naturally come out on top just on the fact that he’s played many more majors than the other guys. So it’s not really a fair way to do it.
However, you could wait until all the Big 3 or 4 have retired, and then do it?
And I’m glad you said what you said above. It’s what I’ve been chirping about on here for a couple years now- that arguments can be made for all 3 of them being the “greatest”, whatever that even means. A better way to put it is that I find there to be just too much reasonable doubt that any one of the 3 are definitively greater than the other 2. All 3 of them have legitimate reasons why they shouldn’t be considered all around greater than the other 2.
I’m not too naive to think that people don’t desperately want their favorite player to not be considered “not-as-great” as the other two guys, and that it’s fun to have these kinds of debates. It’s just that, in this case, it’s just so goddamn subjective and they are so goddamn close, for their own very different and unique reasons. And when it comes down to splitting hairs, or in this case splitting atoms, I just don’t see how one of them can objectively be declared as being greater than the others. There’s just too many variables.
Again, the fans of a given all-time great player are almost ALWAYS going to say they believe their player is the greatest, or at least not worse than the other two- that’s just the way it works. But it’s when the tennis establishment, or even the ATP itself, starts calling someone the GOAT, I really don’t like that….
Eugene, this site does something like that but is much more comprehensive. That’s the reason I always link to it:
http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/goatList
Of course Kevin, we can draw a line only after the big 3 retire and all their achievements are considered carefully. However, I doubt that even then someone will be able to prove that
‘any one of the 3 are definitively greater than the other 2’.