Daniil Medvedev left the U.S. Open and ended his unbelievable hard-court summer with a silver platter.
He didn’t hand Rafael Nadal the title on one.
Nadal lifted the U.S. Open trophy for a fourth time on Sunday night and won his 19th Grand Slam, but not before what looked like a lopsided affair turned into an instant classic. The Spaniard led by two sets to love and a break, watched Medvedev erase the entire deficit, and then finally recovered to win a grueling five-setter 7-5, 6-3, 5-7, 4-6, 6-4 in four hours and 49 minutes.
“The last three hours of the match [were] very, very intense,” Nadal assured. “Very tough mentally and physically, too.”
For a while it looked like the match would not even go too far past the two-hour mark. Nadal, who had mostly coasted through his entire draw just as he did en route to the 2017 U.S. Open title, took the first two sets and broke Medvedev for a 3-2 advantage in the third. Given that this summer and this tournament had already been incredibly draining for the Russian, it looked like he was finally left for dead.
Instead, Medvedev broke right back for 3-3 and improbably stole the set with another break at 6-5. Suddenly Medvedev–who had been booed throughout the fortnight and again when walked into Arthur Ashe Stadium for the final–had the fans chanting his name. They wanted a fourth set and they got it. They wanted a fifth set. They got that, too, after Medvedev earned the only break of the fourth at 5-4.
“I have to say I’m being myself,” explained the 23-year-old, who gave the crowd the finger during his third-round victory over Feliciano Lopez and gave them the business in his on-court interviews following both his third-round and fourth-round wins. “Talking about bad things, not proud of them, but I was being myself. Talking about good things and getting the crowd back…I should be surprised.
“Again, I was being myself. I was fighting for every point. I think they appreciated it. As I said, being break down in the third, I won the game, and I felt that these guys wanted some more tennis. They were cheering me up like crazy. I knew I have to leave my heart out there for them also. For myself first of all, but for them also. I think they saw it and they appreciate it. I’m thankful to them for this….
“It was a pleasure to be out there tonight. They were sometimes cheering my name, sometimes they were going for Rafa. I think it was just because the arena is so huge, there were so many people cheering both names, it was like changing all the time. The atmosphere was the best of my life, I have to say.”
Medvedev’s effort was certainly the best of his life, too, but it was not quite enough to get across the finish line against one of tennis’ all-time greats. Nadal finally came up with an answer to his opponent’s consistency and tenacity, seizing a crucial break in the fifth set from basically out of nowhere. Medvedev led 40-0 at 2-2 but missed an easy forehand that would have finished the game at love and went on to get broken.
Although the 33-year-old extended his lead to 5-2, sealing the deal was appropriately far from simple. A never-say-die Medvedev got one of the breaks back for 3-5, held for 4-5 after saving two championship points, and even earned a break point to get back on serve at 5-5. Nadal, however, saved it by forcing the world No. 5 into an error with a strong forehand and two points later he capitalize on his third championship point with a big first serve that Medvedev sent well past the baseline.
“These kind of matches in the final of Grand Slam makes the match more special,” the second seed said. “The way that the match became very dramatic at the end, that makes this day unforgettable, part of my history of this sport. (I’m) just very happy. This trophy means everything to me today. (My) personal satisfaction the way that I resisted all these tough moments is very high.
“At the same time Daniil created this moment, too. The way that he [fought], the way that he played, [was] a champion way. Just well done for him.”
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another grand slam final epic
Awesome both players!
Medvedev can only get better, he’s got the grit of a champion.
His speech was also very witty and respectful, he’s earned my respect and tennis attention.
I think he surprised many last night, his lanky and shaggy appearance is misleading.
I feared the worst for Rafa in the fifth, at times he looked completely out of sorts and completely drained but, once again, his fighting spirit brought the trophy home.
Well done Rafa.
I don’t know who will end up with the most slams. Never been much interested in the Great GOAT Debate and really don’t believe there is such a thing, well, except on clay where it’s kind of obvious. But if it’s so close that there IS a debate, then there isn’t a GOAT.
But all that said, last night, somewhere between waking and sleep, an image popped into my head of Rafa getting the most slams, ripping off his shirt and screaming I AM THE GREATEST! What I can say is that’s never, ever gonna happen! Maybe if it’s Djokovic…Maybe, but I suspect he’s learned some true humility by now. Or will have if/when he gets there. I am beginning to think that the Mad Russian may have quite a bit to say about that. We’ll see.
Does anyone have highlights of the final game of the 5th set?
Somehow US open clicks for Rafa.. Second home for him after FO.. AO is very very unlucky slam.. 2012.2014,2017 loses are painful.
Good that he turned around 5th set losing pattern… Wimby loses against Nole(2018) and Muller(2017). USO loses against Fog(2015) and Lucas(2016) AO loses against Verdasco(2016) and Fed(2017)
Tennis changes. Laver was great for his time as was Borg, Samprass, yu get the idea. The records these guys are setting will be broken somewhere along the line I don’t understand why there has to be a GOAT, cause we’ll be talking about someone else in the future. Just enjoy what they all bring to the court and tennis..
Anyone else feel that 2019 was a career legacy defining year for the big 3 on who ends with the maximum ? This is particularly true given that father time is catching up on all and injuries will be a very integral part going forth.
I am happy that Rafa made this year as his own to stamp his contribution.
If Rafa ends this year as no 1, I would rate it as maybe the second biggest obstacle scaling year after 2013. It is not easy at 33 to come back after 4 month injury and win 2 slams, reach final n semi of another and win 2 masters. Ofcourse 2017 was stellar too but the older you get, the harder it is.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DjokerNole/status/1171041922271592449
Message from nole for Rafa and Dannil. Wow he saw the whole match 🙂
Very classy of Nole to say that publically to his biggest rival. I am sure they message n congratulate each other privately though.
Nole is classy! I was very pleased to see that Rafa also said that the crowd shouldn’t have booed Nole. I didn’t see the match but I am getting pretty fed up with Nole getting booed. He is an all time great along with Rafa and Fed and deserves way more respect.
If Nole was from the Anglosphere or Western Europe I suspect he would be treated differently.
Seriously doubt that most people care where Nole is from. Also he speaks very good English which is a big asset in English speaking countries. He – and his family – did make some early mistakes which alienated fans of some players in some countries. Medvedev is Russian for pity’s sake and people in the USA seem perfectly willing to embrace him. There are plenty of Fedfans and Rafans who hate Djokovic simply because he’s a threat to their idols. No idea what the Wimbledon crowd had against him this year. Yeah, Fed is very popular there. So is Rafa, despite being a huge threat to both Federer and the home fave, Murray. I think one of Nole’s big mistakes is he obviously wants love but he never apologizes for the missteps. You can get admiration for winning but you don’t get love for it and you don’t get love because you want it – you just look pathetic – it’s just not a good look on a champion.
Ramara:
Djokovic has many flaws in his character – not least being his habit of retiring from matches when he suspects he is at risk of losing a match
Hello AMY!!
Was hoping you were doing okay. It’s just a tough time right now, isn’t it. Will these ships we sail on ever sail properly again? I had to take a break from the activism. It was bringing me down. But I’ll get back on it in 2020. I do believe people (tennis commies and journos) do discriminate intentionally or unintentionally here in the USA. Also in cycling – all the cyclist that matter are from English speaking countries and get the most attention. I usually know more about Asian, Eastern European, Italian and South American cyclists than the dumb ESPN commentators! Tennis maybe not quite as bad, depending on the commies….but it’s still xenophobic as heck. I’d say the Anglosphere is the audience that counts in America, anyway. Also helps to be wealthy (no matter where you are from), and better than average looking, if one is a male or female athlete. Life is not a level playing field, as Jim Courier (the TG poster) reminds us. 😉
Thinking of Sharapova, Safin, and others that are charismatic. It’s best to be loaded with charisma no matter what.
Novak is underappreciated and misunderstood. I get it but I don’t agree, of course. Now we have the charismatic Medvedev, who definitely appears to be off to a better start with the New York crowd and journos than Novak got. However, jury is still out, imo, about how long Medvedev can keep his level this high! Nole is legend right up there with Rafa and Roger – that’s my opinion.
Congrats again Rafa fans! He really has earned all the love and accolades he gets.
Hi darling! Good to.hear from you. I agree about Nole needless to say. Utterly exhausted with politics but have to.be involved right now as our democracy is teetering on the edge.
Very sorry to hear about Nole ‘s injury but good he is having surgery and dealing with it straightaway.Nny made the excellent point that the wimby final took a huge toll on both Fed and Nole. Hope they will be back in the swing of things asap as tennis needs it’s Big Three.
I couldn’t watch the USO although I have seen extended highlights of the final. Personally I think it is too soon to declare Medvedev as a fave for slams. He has an extremely mercurial character and he could flame like a comet and then crash and burn.
Good to see you Elizabeth!
Xxx
Ps I did leave a post after the USO final for you and others…
Amy, I’m daily terrified at what is going on across the pond. I wish I lived close to you to help. My thoughts are with you. Can’t believe what I read and see. Like wtf has happened and will we make it?
Missed your post but I know which thread it’s on I think. Glorious match and win for Rafa. Tennis is, most times, a great distraction from the chaos.
Hi Elizabeth! I just got back from a walk by the river.
What is going on is a culmination of events triggered by the referendum. I kept telling you guys that we were going the way of the US and I don’t think any of you believed me. The writing has been on the wall for ages so I am not surprised. Actually the day after the referendum a friend came round and I said that I though we were heading into very dark times and that the far right were going to rise up. This was never about Brexit, it’s about fuelling the politics of grievance and division leading to a destruction of our public services including the NHS leaving our society looking like Trump’s America.Of course masses of dark money from the Mercers and the Kochs as well as Putin has been and is in play.
If we crash out without a deal God knows what will happen…of course it’s what Trump and Putin both want because we will be weak and defenceless, likely becoming a vassal state of America.
The biggest part of the problem is that Corbyn is the leader of Labour so they are way behind the Conservatives in the polls. They should.be streets ahead of this car crash government and they would be with a decent leader.
I can’t believe that the Dems aren’t impeaching Twitler. It’s not about having the votes it’s about doing what is morally right. What signal does it send that he commits crimes in plain sight every day and they do nothing?!
Still, even he can’t just shut down Congress which is effectively what that moron Johnson has done. Like Twitler he is absolutely without shame.
Thanks for your thoughts and feelings, Amy. We are certainly of one mind, I feel, when it comes to politics and what a healthy democracy looks like. Unfortunately neither of us have that any longer.
Golly, I have too much to say about it, Amy. And I can’t do it here. Just know I’m watching what is happening in both our countries and I am with you. I took a break from it – had to for my health. But am back at it. Maybe we use the non-tennis forum next time – this is a critical mission we are on!
Rafa now has 5 multi slam years..wow..as much as Nole and 1 less than fed.
Anyone would have thought after 2016, Rafa will come and win 5 more and 2 HC in that included. Moreso maybe end no 1 twice too 🙂 proud of you Rafa
And a supposed clay court specialist reaching 15 non clay slam finals ..wow. ..
A new referendum sound like the only way to save this. And quite fair, its a very different scenario to three years ago.
I know I am dreaming hehe but just imagine..after all the AO disappointments. .what if Rafa reached his 20 n double career slam both at 2020 Australian open itself
Maybe the AO second will come in a unique way…I think so
Amazing final. What a performance from both Nadal and Med. really impressed with Medvedev’s poise, determination and smarts throughout the tournament. After Djoko, I cheer for Med!
As I’ve said already a few times, it’s a very fine line between being competitive and possibly beating Nadal and losing 3-0 such is his ability to steam roll you and give nothing away. The performance level required to be competitive is somewhere in the 90-100% range and anything less than 90% will see you lose 3-0 animate it look like youre performance was at the 50% level. No other player on tour demands such a high performance level from you for the duration if the match.
Rafa brings the best out of his opponents. They know they have to leave everything on the court or they are certain to lose. Rafa is the ultimate competitor.
That’s the mental side of it . That’s why players try too hard and get beat by their own mistakes. Its a form of bullying, actually. The real way to beat Nadal is not to fall into that trap, and Medvedev very nearly succeeded .
Please, what exactly has this to do with bullying?? That’s really not a fitting word, since it has a very negative connotation. I’m quite sure that Medvedev himself wouldn’t describe his oncourt experience like that. Bullying brings out the worst in the victims, not the best!
That’s the point, its meant to have that effect.
It depends how you interpret it,but IMO Nadal does bully people with his superior physicality, as does Serena. Vocally as well.
Littlefoot, 👍.
Bullying brings out the worse in the victim, not the best. In Rafa’s case, he brings out the best in his opponents, hence all those classic matches.
Serena, and Fed at times, bring out the worst in their opponents, hence you sometimes see those lopsided results in their matches; or worse still, their opponents may be leading and then when it come to crunch moments, they lose the plot and end up losing a winnable match. To me, the two are the bullies, their opponents are simply too scared to beat them, even when sometimes their opponents are the better players in their matches.
Why would Fed be a bully in close matches more than Serena or Nadal? Those two are physically stronger than most other players, Fed is more famous for his artistry.
Why would playing Fed or Serena be scarier than playing Nadal , esp on their best surfaces ?
Serena and Nadal have more in common with each other than Fed . The mental side of beating any one of them because of their reputation is about equal .
Why? Just check how often Fed’s opponent’s choked! It’s more because of Fed’s stature, they’re either too respectful or too afraid to beat him.
You can’t compare Serena to Rafa, because Serena often bullies her opponents by being oppressive. Rafa otoh, allows his opponents to play their best to fight back; if Rafa is a big bully, he would have finished off his opponents sooner, by being aggressive with his power.
Rafa enjoys the fights before the wins (and sometimes losses); he enjoys the tussles, because he loves using tactics and skills at the same time. Now that he’s older, he begins to shorten the fights, to save his body from injuries, but sometimes it’s still inevitable (like at USO last year).
Big Al,
I think that the word “bully” is only adequate to describe what’s happening on a tennis court if one opponent is blatantly disrespectful and tries to gain unfair advantages by intimidation. The adamant will to win can never qualify as bullying in a tennis match since winning is what puts bread and butter on a player’s table – it’s their job to win☺️ And one can only very rarely accuse Fed or Rafa of being bullies. Even Rafa’s often annoying time wasting has nothing to do with disrespect and gamesmanship, but with his OCD. He’s always been like that. Jon Wertheim, who is the staunchest of Fedfans but respects Rafa immensely, even made the interesting point that in long and gruelling matches against Rafa it probably helps the opponents more than it hurts them because they have some extra seconds for catching breath after many brutal rallyes. Wertheim said that in the final it would’ve probably been an advantage for Rafa if he had served faster because Medvedev’s physical reserves were dwindling fast.
An aside: while I in general don’t object that umpires call out Rafa for taking too long (rules are rules), I thought that the umpire didn’t do a very good job last Sunday. There’s a good reason why the umpire still has some degrees of freedom as to when exactly starting the clock. And he should take into account the rowdy and very noisy NY crowd and the length of the preceding rallyes – especially in the fifth set. IMO the umpire didn’t alway handle that skillfully in the final, hence the booing.
Back to bullying: we have discussed Fed, Rafa and Serena here. IMO only Serena can be occasionally accused of being a bully on- and offcourt. While she behaved impeccably during this year’s USO, she really was a bully in last year’s final – and a pretty childish bully, since she hurt mostly herself. I’m still shocked that so many people (probably mostly Americans) bought Serena’s sexist and women’s lib spin.
Jimmy Connors was a classic bully. His match against Aaron Kricksteen (USO 1991) showcases this very well. While it’s exhilaratingly entertaining, Connors bullied himself all the way into the semi-final! His treatment of Kricksteen and the umpire is absolutely awful, and it’s surprising that the umpire let him get away with it. Carlos Ramos wouldn’t have let this happen, lol! While many older tennis fans remember the bygone days fondly, it’s probably for the best that this kind of bullying behavior isn’t tolerated any longer.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/sports/tennis/rafael-nadal-us-open.html#commentsContainer
Nice interview
I mean article
Lucky, Nadal has one of the biggest shots in the history of the game and he attacks players weakest with it.As well as getting everything back,plus his celebrations are intimidating .
However,Serena is a far worse bully.
By now, everyone knows how Rafa celebrates so it’s no longer intimidating imo.
Rafa no longer bounces so much at the net during the coin toss; neither is he the muscle man of his early twenties. In fact he looks rather small size standing next to the next gen 6’4” to 6’6” giants! Ha ha!
I doubt the next gen guys are intimidated by him seriously, at least I didn’t see anyone choking playing him for the first time. He’s not one to come out all guns blazing often, but takes his time to figure out his first time opponent, and that gives his opponent time to get into the match.
I don’t see getting the ball back is bullying! Djoko must be a big bully then, so is Simon or Ferrer. Also, what’s wrong with attacking an opponent’s weakness? Isn’t it the best way to trouble your opponent? Don’t tell me Fed doesn’t do that!
Not as much as Nadal who used to hit his forehand to Feds backhand all the time as if he couldn’t think of any other way of beating him!
OK,he’s less of a bully now compared with younger days showing off his biceps.He was compared to a bulldozer then.
Those other players maybe great counterpunchers but not as physically intimidating as Rafa.
At least we agree Serena is worse,it’s her personality that’s intimidating.
You said use to; Rafa no longer does that now because he has better ways of attacking Fed now that Rafa has a complete game.
Your opinion of Rafa seemed to be based on the past; the present Rafa is no longer the player you described. He attacks more than he retrieves; he doesn’t stay at the baseline to get every ball back but moves forward into the forecourt or to the net to finish the point quicker. He’s no longer the muscle man but is rather trim now, in fact a bit too trimmed with his face a bit too thin imo.
Beyond delighted that Rafa won the USO for the 4 th time, never thought in a million years he would win 19 GS and end the year with 1 GS seperating him and Federer, thought either Novak or Roger would win the USO to be honest, next year will be interesting, Novak will still be favorite at the AO Stan i would think at his best is the player to trouble Novak, Rafa at the FO unless he faces Novak in the final and Novak avoids Thiem, Federer will have his chances at SW19, who knows whats going on with Murray, and it seems the new gen are starting to make a breakthrough, good times, BTW hope everyone is well , all the old crew still here, not long back from Autumn Equinox 🙂
I think Medvedev is the player to trouble Novak. Will be interesting to see how Med does v Federer if they meet this fall.
Medvedev will be the player to trouble the big three imo. Against Rafa, he can match him with varieties; against Djoko he can up his aggression ( like hitting big second serves that even the best ROS couldn’t handle). Against Fed, I feel he will play his Long rallies and counterpunches against Fed (it’s the counterpunchers who give Fed the most problems).
The guy is simply so versatile, he can play all sorts of game styles against different opponents.
Nice to read you here, Alison!
Just want you to know how much I supported Vamos Rafa at this US Open! Congratulations to you and Rafa Fans. Sure wish to read you more here! Oh and, I picked so well this time – yes, I’m bragging about my ATP bracket LOL. I was top notch. Of the entire entrants, I was #9. So…I’m hot right now, just aske me…hahahha
Yes it is more about the young Rafa .The new one keeps the points shorter.
He just got older,others caught up in the power game.But his forehand is still hugely intimidating. The loud grunt on important moments .Others Hur the ball hard but don’t do that.
That was to lucky
Well done to Ratcliff/elizabeth for her atp bracket,btw.
thanks, BA. It doesn’t happen often but I looked at that bracket and I immediately saw it: Rafa and Medvedev final. Did not think either Nole or Fed would make the final.
Also felt similarly about Andreescu winning LOL
Okay so Karolina Pliskova finally wins a title today! Yay. She is someone I want to win a GS. I just really like her.
Serena Williams wasn’t always a bully imo. She was, from the start, intimidating. And that’s okay. I prefer someone like Ash Barty as opposed to Seren or Sharapova. Barty wins without intimidating. There was a time when I thought Rafa used intimidation as a tactic and I did not like him as much. Now, right or wrong, I just love him. Yes, he grunts but it’s not, to me, anywhere nearly as bad as Serena or Sharapova. Granollers is a horrible grunter but he’s not in the spotlight so it doesn’t matter. Nole and Andy both grunt but it’s way more genuine – they grunt softly on every stroke. To me there are natural grunts and grunts that are meant to be intimidating. Serena actually doesn’t grunt at all in some matches. Rafa always has his (slightly annoying) grunT. It’s just that I love him more than I used to. No matter how much I try watching and appreciating Sharapova, her grunt prevents me from liking her tennis – she’s obnoxious with it! I cannot be a Sharapova fan because of her shrieking!!!
Serena screams a lot on certain points or after them. Sharapova and Azarenka (Shrieky Vicki) make that loud noise on every point, so it could be got used to.
Nadal only does the really loud grunt when he hits his forehand on certain points, I feel intimidated watching. It must be offputting .You could argue he’s only putting more effort into it , but lots of other players can hit massive shots without that .
I appreciate Nadal’s all round ability these days , but in his early days he did tend to use gamesmanship .
Djoko had a very tough draw . I still couldn’t put him out to Medvedev , because its a Slam . Same argument against Andrescu winning.The thing is, go with your gut feeling and don’t worry about making ‘sensible’ picks.
Most times I try to go for the sensible pick – and ignore my gut. My gut really isn’t that secure. It’s a nervous, insecure gut. Maybe I should go with it more.
However I woke up at 4 am, not that I wanted to, but I had the ATP brackets on my mind and I switched a lot of gut picks to more sensible ones. Or, my nervous gut chickened out. Cheers and good luck!
Many do grunt actually. Did you watch the recent atp short clip that ask a few players to guess the grunts of certain players?
So, grunting is not uncommon among players but people as usual always like to single out Rafa. In fact Fed did grunt at times, I heard that with my own ears.
Also, so what with his FH being intimidating? Others have even bigger more intimidating FH, so are they bullies? Again it’s always Rafa who gets singled out as usual.
And, Fed during his heydays also had an intimidating FH, and that’s why players tried their best to avoid hitting to that FH, was he not a bully back then?
It’s the timing and loudness of the grunt .Plus everything else.I concede he’s not as bad these days.
Lots of players have very intimidating games,but that doesn’t get reflected in their body language or demeanor.
Serena is about the best example of a bully.
I always felt Becker was too.
Sampras was hugely dominant,esp on serve,I found him boring but he wasn’t a bully.
Lots of players grunt on every point, effort or no effort! Rafa doesn’t grunt when he’s slicing, or when he’s hitting a drop shot; so for him it’s when he’s putting in extra effort (maybe his topspin FH) that he grunts.
In fact for Rafa’s case, his grunting could serve as a warning to his opponent that he’s going to hit his topspin FH with interest, so his opponent could very well prepare for it. It’s may be intimidating at the start of the match but as the match progresses, the opponent would be used to the grunting as a warning for them (that Rafa is going to hit his shots hard).
Anyway, these players grunt all along, from young I supposed, so it’s difficult for them to change the habit.(I agree with Elizabeth that Granoller has an annoying grunt; there’s another player, I think from Argentina if I’m not wrong, who’s grunting was simply unbearable!).
Horacio Zeballos can have a terrible grunt as I recall. But I have not watch for a very long time – he may have mellowed the noise.
Okay I do remember Zeballos grunting – a low double-syllable vomiting sound. Couldn’t find it this morning but maybe you were thinking of Carlos Berloq, Dutra Silve, or OMG Jerzy Janowicz (bless his heart)!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRbyZGmcztU
Yes, it’s Rogerio Dutra Silva, oh he’s from Brazil, not Argentina. His grunting was simply horrible and unbearable. He grunts on every point, and it’s so loud! I wonder how his opponents are going to tolerate it the whole match! It’s like he was being punched hard and painfully by someone thus the horrible noise he produced, each time he hit the ball!
Whoa! That Dutra Silva vs Berlocq match, it’s the most noisy match ever! Worse than Sharapova vs Azarenka shrieking match imo.
The two guys were like engaged in a fight, punching each other, some kungfu fighting, exerting and expending so much physical energy, like doing some hard labour job!
Last man standing, really? I thought Medvedev was standing pretty well at the end.
Having an uncle give you a 30-year advantage over your opposition certainly helps.
As soon as people realise that it’s rarely a level playing field, the world’s will be a better place.
????
Care to explain?
Many if not most successful tennis pros have a strong family tradition behind them. Tsitsipas, Shapovalov, Felix AA, Zverev. Roger’s parents played country club tennis – mom was better at it than dad – recognized his talent/interest and trotted him over to the local training center. Novak was trained by a coach from an early age. She recognized his talent and potential.
Karlovic is the only example I know of who had no childhood coaching. He couldn’t afford it so he taught himself, using a wall.
And there’s Dustin Brown’s story. Definitely it helps to have more solid financial support like I believe many top players have for a start. Today I ran across this this story and can’t help but admire her courage. Great perspective to hear from WTA #556 !
https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/49675123
I doubt any of them received the same assistance as Nadal. Ecosystems play a major part as well.
Elizabeth, interesting read. In Germany we all know about Dustin Brown’s story. I feel bad for him that he could never achieve a lasting breakthrough. He was exciting to watch for sure. Rafafans have some painful memories in connection with Dustin Brown, lol!
Players like Rafa and Roger had indeed the advantage of having affluent families behind them who could always support them. They never had to worry about not being able to afford the hotel costs or a plane ticket. Players like Novak had less soft beginnings. And I suspect that the majority of the current Russian sensations initially also had to fight offcourt.
I think that the money for tennis pros should be distributed differently. The lower tier is important, too, and they should be able to support themselves more comfortably. Many talented youngsters chose a different sport because it’s so difficult to make a decent living from playing professional tennis. Even if you are very good the chances to earn money are slim. Only the very best may eventually have the chance to become millionaires. In many other sports it’s much easier to make a living. Maybe, the poster “Jim Courier” wanted to hint at these financial realities, when he talked a bit cryptically about Rafa’s uncle.
Thanks for your reply, littlefoot!
I was wondering if anyone here would be interested in WTA #556. And it is a relevant story and subject right now with the talk of making it easier to thrive for the lower tier struggling in tennis. I can only imagine the struggle and how hard it would be to make it in tennis. At the lower levels of skiing and cycling, you still need a day job in this country, anyway! The cost of pro racing level equipment alone is way to high for most!
Well, at least Jim Courier (the TG poster) has the subtlety to be cryptic. I admire that. LOL Many times I don’t think too hard about his posts if I read them at all. I’m pretty sure he skips my posts too 😀
You’re missing the point, its not about having affluent families to support them, its about being fortunate enough to have the right people or person supporting them from 3 years of age. I dare say the advantage that Nadal recieved via his Uncle Toni is not comparable to what anyone else on the tour has received from their supporters.
It’s not a level playing field and you idolize this guy like he’s has had to overcome extreme adversity to achieve his success. Give me a break!
Elizabeth, I dont ignore your posts, I just don’t pay that much attention to them because I know you lack objectivity and I learn very little from you. I know that may not be consistent with your distorted view of yourself. My apologies for that.
It’s okay. Pretty much ditto about you JC. My interests in tennis are more varied than yours. And Frankly you have made your own over-inflated opinion of yourself well known here. But it’s amusing to read how great you are.
Elizabeth, his initials are “JC” after all,lol😇!
For the most part “tenngrand” is a fine tennis site with knowledgeable authors (Ricky and Cheryl) and some equally knowledgeable commenters. And while we all have our favorite players – there seem to be more Rafafans here than elsewhere – we are a pretty civil bunch, and the fandom isn’t as toxic as elsewhere.
Yes, indeed littlefoot. The reason I post here It’s mostly knowledgeable, civil posters and I like Ricky and Cheryl. I appreciate this site. Yes, not sure what to make of our “JC” lately, lol… Maybe he’s just cranky with a low tolerance for Rafa love 😀 2020 might see some posters get very edgy when Rafa wins #20, either at AO or FO.
2020 is already making me edgy in other ways!
Rafa had a far bigger advantage in being born into a sporting family. He learned from infancy that training and dedication were the key to sporting success. He was also fortunate in having a well-to-do father who backed him to the limit and assembled an excellent professional team around him very early in his pro career. Toni is a great mental coach and understands strategy and tactics well. He is not a great technical coach. That’s one reason Rafa’s backhand, serve and net approaches have improved so much since Moya took over. Let’s add another advantage: Moya as a friend and mentor since Rafa was 14. But Rafa’s biggest advantage is his own mind and heart. He was born to be an athlete, body and soul. Had he been born into the poorest family in Spain he’d have played soccer, been pretty damn good at it and very happy.
Jim, you lack objectivity if anyone does.
For the most part, comments on a blog like this are subjective and many times, fiercely so. Unless were talking straight up statistics. But even many numbers can be cherry picked and distorted to suit a preferred narrative.
It’s a very good fan blog, for the most part though, I think, Big Al.
The weekly bracket helps me stay tuned and I’m glad to have you and the welshwitch on board – even in a crazy slow tennis week like this one post US Open.
Yeah,I’ve been watching the tennis this week on wtatv Because of the brackets.But since yesterday was a disaster and I’ve hardly a player left,it’s onto next week’s .Keeps me thinking.
Yeah agree about the blog,it’s a pretty good natured place though we all have our opinions.
You can get wtatv? A few months ago I tried to renew my subscription but it was not available. I’ll try again. I liked wtatv!
Happy to see that one of my favorites, Karolina Pliskova, put in a serious effort in Zhengzhou. And Hiroshima happens to be on TC about the time I wake up. Almost none of the top picks won but it will be a good final for the home crowd with Hibino and Doi playing. Cheers, Big Al.
The problem of having Toni Nadal as Rafa’s coach is: Toni is not a technical coach but a tactical coach. Toni could teach Rafa about tactics, strategy, trained him to be mentally tough, to be able to take pressure, etc and etc. But, he couldn’t teach Rafa the orthdox way of playing tennis; he allowed Rafa to explore, figured things out himself, hence Rafa’s unorthodox FH and his ROS position.
What’s lacking in Rafa’s game was a great serve, and to me that’s Toni’s shortcoming of being the main coach for Rafa for so long. It’s until 2010 that he finally engaged the outside help to improve Rafa’s serve, for the quest of a career slam and Rafa’s first USO title that year.
I mean why wait till 2010 when Rafa was already 24, and not earlier when Rafa was still a teenager, to help him get a great serve? Who knows, with a great serve much earlier on, Rafa could’ve won some or most of his matches a little bit quicker and avoided the grinding that had become a trademark of his matches?
Watch Rafa in 2004, he’s way more aggressive than he was since. A better serve would imo allow him to win points and his matches more efficiently.
So, no, to me having Toni his uncle as Rafa’s coach not necessarily means Rafa gets all the advantages or headstart over other elite and privileged players like him. There are shortcomings too.
Murray’s mum is also a tennis coach, but she allows him to train in Spain when Murray requested for it. Rafa wasn’t given the chance to go to Barcelona when they came knocking on his door, offering him a chance to train there. His parents and his uncle Toni had decided against it thus getting Toni to take charge of Rafa’s tennis career was the decision.
To me Toni had done his job well but I feel Rafa could’ve a better serve from day one, and perhaps could avoid some of his injuries despite his congenital foot issue, and remained a more offensive player like he first started out and not became a more grinding counterpunching player.
The tactical is not whats important at a young age, its the instilling of a 30-year olds experience, mindset and perspective into a much younger person. This allows that person to have a tennis maturity advantage over their opposition.
Do I have to keep educating you people because I dont get a lot from posting here?
Apparently you guys rule the world but you dont know much
Come on, which coach won’t do that??? All these players started at a young age, three or four years old!
So, it speaks to the fact that how great Toni and Rafa are! Look at Tsitsipas or Shapo, they also have their parents as their coach, and till now, at age 21 and 20 respectively, they have not achieve as much as Rafa had at that age!
The Williams sisters, they also have their Father as coach, and we see how great they are, and if I’m not wrong, they also achieved a lot at a young age.
So, it all depends on the coach (may be Uncle, parent, or some other non family member) and the charge, how good they are to start with.
Rafa having Toni as his main coach for so long was indeed a mixed blessing. While he gave Rafa love and a stable family enviroment, when he was still very young, there were serious problems as well. Neglecting to teach Rafa a decent serve is indeed the most glaring shortcoming. Considering Rafa’s power, it’s ridiculous that his serve wasn’t stronger until 2010. Another problem which goes back to Toni¡ and his offbeat methods, is, that Rafa’s selfconfidence in his ability hasn’t been adequately developed.
Rafa is btw not at all the only one who has been coached by a relative. Many players have started out like this. The combo Rafa/Toni was just the most successful and long lasting relationship, and although Toni initially wasn’t a tennis expert, he became one of the most successful coaches ever. But I don’t think that his methods would’ve worked as well with other young players. And in 2017 he finally made the right move and stepped down. IMO this should’ve happened earlier and Moya proved to be a brilliant choice.
Oh, Toni says he wouldn’t have used the same methods with other young players. He says he was especially hard on Rafa because he knew Rafa was strong and could take it.
Only dummies give excessive power to people that don’t necessarily deserve it. Wow, he hits a tennis all over the net better than others due to circumstance. Let’s give him the keys to the throne.
What are you at? Sounds like sour grapes.
Who’s giving who the keys. More like those who insisted a certain player is the Goat all along are the ones who are eager to give the keys to the throne to that player.
It’s not sour grapes, I’m just a better judge than you lot.
No doubt he deserves recognition for his achievements but you have to.kniwehere to draw the line in terms of the big picture.
I keep things in perspective whereas you guys are slightly dillusional.
Classic posting 😇 lol…
Dillusional ? Not even slightly lol
Well, I’d be lying if I claimed to be completely delusional free. However, I can, most of the time recognize a delusion. And many times my delusions make life lighter – maybe I am confusing delusion with imagination, though. I don’t know. JC does not realize how funny he is – so that’s slightly delusional of him right there.
And because people that think like you are large in numbers that equates to a misallocation of power in the world live in.
I doubt Nadal would teach me anything other than he can play tennis better than me. Always keep things in perspective.
Jim, you’re the only one here who think that Nadal is bigger than what he is, not us here! We have never think that Rafa is bigger than anyone when he’s just a tennis player.
He’s not going to change the world, not going to influence politics, etc and etc. He’s just a professional tennis player, and that’s what we care for.
“JC”, for the most part you are totally off with your recent comments. Why do you even bother to come here if you feel that you are so much more knowledgeable than us?
Most of us here are just a bunch of people who love to watch tennis. And just like soccer fans become emotionally attached to “their” soccer club, most of us have become attached to a specific player. Apparently you like to bet. Nothing wrong with that. Becoming attached to a player is a sort of betting, too. We are very happy when our favorite wins, and we are sad when he/she loses. It’s an emotional gamble, and the currency isn’t money.
Some of us also find certain character traits of our favorite player inspiring. Nothing wrong with that either. I admire plenty of other very diverse people, and most of them have done something far more important than hitting a small fuzzy ball over a net. But there’s still a big gap between admiration and idolization. Personally I’m not comfortable with idolization. And the cult which developed around a certain tennis player whom we all know, was one reason why I was turned off and stopped rooting for him, although it’s of course not at all the player’s fault that some fans started to turn him into a religious experience. But I’m also not at all comfortable with uncritical admiration of my own favorite player. That’s why I never go to certain fan sites. I feel comfortable to read and comment here because it’s less over-the-top and it’s nice to engage now and then in civil discussions with fans of other players.
That said, if someone really idolizes a sports hero – why not? Who am I to criticize it? For the most part it’s pretty harmless. It’s much better than supporting a certain guy with orange skin and an abysmally bad hair cut.
Rafa could teach you to respect other people but I doubt that’s something you care to learn. You’re way too much in love with yourself.
Waves to Elizabeth, and thanks for your sweet reply , and good to read you too dear friend XX 🙂
Alison, really do appreciate reading you. Nice to have someone I’ve known for so long around! Thanks for putting up with me all these years!
Of course, I am hoping Novak is ready to fight for AO 2020 but it’s too soon to know if he’ll be close to healthy. I read he’s coming back for Tokyo and Shanghai. Seems a bit much. Anyway, lots can change between now and AO 2020. Very excited about prospects for WTA 2020. Happy Autumnal Solstice! I’m just happy the worst of the summer heat is gone and looking forward to shorter, colder days 😀
Lol Elizabeth, i thank anybody on these forums that puts up with me to be quite honest, im a bit of a headcase that doesnt always think before she posts, and often regrets what i say afterwards lol, say la vie, anyway Happy Autumn Equinox to you too my lovely, hope all the players are all healthy come to new tennis season,and it seems the next gen are starting to break through, on the ATP and the WTA exciting times, shame the real world is in such dire straits urgh ….
Rafa still says he feels the pain in his body even after 8 days..is his physio not recovering him ?
Any update on Rafa n his health
Withdraw from laver cup Rafa
Rafa’s in Geneva, training for Laver Cup along with Theim. I think you were reading an article based on an old interview.
I think it’s a positive sign that Rafa went to Geneva for LC. I don’t think he would participate if there were serious physical problems.
While I’m pretty indifferent towards LC – I think the format is confusing, and it’s just a star studded exhibition – it seems to be fun for players and audience alike. I wonder how LC will fare in the future. Right now there’s no chance whatsoever that the World Team will win the cup anytime soon. And this might eventually doom the format as it is now.
I’m not so sure. No one on Team Europe is exactly “hot” right now. Rafa’s still recovering from his USO final and indoor hard is his worst surface by far. Roger had a back problem when he lost at the USO. Thiem’s been struggling with a viral infection, just lost a DC match and indoor hard court is definitely not his best surface. Tsitsi and Zverev have been struggling – and that’s putting it nicely. Hard court isn’t Foggy’s forte either.
Jack Sock is going to score a lot of doubles points for Team World.
Not that any of it matters. Laver Cup isn’t really about who wins. It’s about seeing the “superstars” out there having fun playing/watching tennis.
I agree that LC is mostly about seeing the superstars and a few up-and-coming players. But that maybe more interesting for the live spectators than the tv audience. I can of course only speak for myself. I’m certainlynot planning to watch any LC matches on TV, but I would maybe buy a ticket if I would be in the vicinity.
But I think that in the long run LC can only succeed if there’s some competitive value attached to the matches.
All the big servers are in the world team so I really can’t say. It’s not a level playing field.
LC matches is now included in the head to head.
Rafa was playing well at Beijing and Shanghai after the LC in 2017. I do feel Rafa enjoys playing in a team, that brings out the joy and the best from him, and so in 2017 that might have made him played well at Beijing/Shanghai afterwards.
I think after LC, if Rafa decides to play at Shanghai (assuming he’s not that tired physically), he should be doing well there. I actually think Rafa is playing better now than during 2017, except that his first serve % is a bit too low, if he can improve that, he’ll be hard to beat.
I’m also not overly concerned about Rafa playing LC. As I said above, it’s probably a good sign that he showed up in Geneva, since he wouldn’t be there if he weren’t healthy. And while I personally don’t care about the event, it seems to be a fun experience for players and spectators. So, why not? Tennis players don’t have many possibilities to get together in a relaxed atmosphere and enjoy the company of other players in a team event. And it could actually be a good learning experience for the younger players like Tsitsipas.