Rafael Nadal goes down to fellow Spaniard Nicolas Almagro in three sets during quarterfinal action in Barcelona on Friday. Almagro is joined in a surprising semifinal lineup by Kei Nishikori and Ernests Gulbis.
For the second time in 44 matches, Rafael Nadal has lost at the Barcelona Open Banc Sabadell.
Nadal fell to Nicolas Almagro 2-6, 7-6(5), 6-4 in a quarterfinal stunner on Friday afternoon. Almagro had been 0-10 lifetime on 2-24 in total sets against his heavily-favored countryman, but he finally got over the hump after two hours and 47 minutes of play. For Nadal, it was his second clay-court setback in as many tournaments after losing to David Ferrer in last week’s Monte-Carlo quarterfinals.
The No. 6 seed’s upset breaks the tournament wide open for someone other than Nadal to capture the title for only the second time since 2004 (Fernando Verdasco won it in 2010, when Nadal did not play). Among the contenders is Ernests Gulbis, who took care of Teymuraz Gabashvili 6-1, 6-4. Gulbis faced no break points the entire way before having to come back from 0-40 down in the final game. The Latvian ended up saving five break points while serving out the match.
Gulbis interview:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcy8I8tkqhY]
Next up for the No. 9 seed is Kei Nishikori, who thrashed Marin Cilic 6-1, 6-3. Cilic was coming off a three-set marathon against Tommy Robredo on Thursday and he had almost nothing left for his Japanese opponent. Nishikori won a whopping five of eight return games to dominate in just one hour and 11 minutes.
“Gulbis is a tough opponent,” Nishikori assured. “He has a big serve and forehand, so it will be a really tough match. I have had two good matches and I am confident as well. It will be a good match.”
Nishikori converts a break point against Cilic:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlnIvlFCzxI]
[polldaddy poll=7996355]
Hes looked off colour all season, something definitely not right with him. The blisters took a lot of our attention at AO but his general play wasnt too great and at times against both Nishikori and Dimitrov his movement was awful, same thing last week in Monte Carlo against Ferrer, just nowhere near the pace of the game.
I expected him to find his groove on the red dirt but if anything he’s getting worse, average players are knocking him all over the court. Not sure what it is though, he seems to be getting more and more conservative in his play allowing opponents to dictate rallies and just trying to hang in there with them, especially on big points. Maybe he’s become too predictable, too reliant on the cross court forehand to backhand and his opponents have figured it out? But he’s got the DTL shot and when he used that yesterday, Nico had no answer.
Even his demeanor on court, he looks subdued. Maybe it’s part of the growing older process, who knows? But then he would be growing more conservative with age and players like Ferru and Almagro would be growing more aggressive with age? Doesn’t make sense.
To Madrid!
Vamos!
…..Still baffled by his attitude during the match yesterday, especially towards the end of the 2nd set. He was not chasing down balls he normally would. He did not look like he was “finding a solution”. I got the distinct impression he looked like he would rather be somewhere else. He briefly “woke up” towards the end of the 3rd set but it was too little too late…….
Definitely something going on in Rafito’s head………..
Baffling as yesterday’s loss is, Rafa’s play in Barcelona was a huge improvement on Monte Carlo…………..
@ rafaisthebest..
I could not agree more with all of your posts…Rafa’s movement was definitely something I identified as the biggest issue even at the AO but I thought it would get resolved with more match play…yesterday Rafa showed another big problem in his game: no enthusiasm on big points, no fighting spirit…I also agree it is an improvement relative to MC but still that provides no comfort…I knew losing to Dolgo and the way he lost it was an indication that something is wrong with our Rafa…
Hi everybody, didn’t have much time for tennis lately.
Can someone enlighten me on Rafa’s latests problems? Are there undisclosed physical problems, or is he just tired of winning every clay tourney in sight year in year out?
He wasn’t perfect at all in Australia, but until his back locked up in the final, there was fire in him. Was he hurt mentally by the initial bad reaction of the audience? But even, if he was far from perfect in Rio, the old fighting spirit was there.Is this a midlife crisis?
And the year is a little crazy so far. I mean, Wawa leading the race, with big wins over Djoko, Rafa and Fed???
What next?
Well, at least the year is interestingly unpredictable so far…
littlefoot@April 26, 2014 at 3:24 pm
Rafa yesterday.
“That’s sport,” said Nadal, following his defeat to Nicolas Almagro. “Obviously it’s not the happiest day for me, but obviously I never thought I would win here 70 matches in a row. It was not my day today. I felt I did a lot of things well today to win the match, but at the end, [there] remained a little bit. Just accept the situation and keep fighting.”
Good to see you back Littlefoot. Rafans on this site are all somewhat subdued for the moment: theories are many and varied as to why he is losing to players who he might normally be expected to beat and also having difficulty with 2nd tier players – take your pick!
Thanks, ed. I don’t have a lot of time for tennis atm, but I will keep an eye on it. I’m not leaving the sinking ship. And maybe it’s only a bit leaky right now. 😉
It is burn out exacerbated with worstening OCD made worse with the calculated crackdown on time violations. Rafa historically does much better as the hunter, not the hunted.
Only exception to this has been on clay but now even that is in question.
Almugro now eliminated just proving that as Rafa alluded to, he did nothing special to beat him. Rafa beat himself.
I got Gulbis wrong (but he was injured) but I picked Giraldo right
Hawkeye63@April 26, 2014 at 3:43 pm
OSD?? It’s unbelievable that you (reportedly a Rafa fan) believe the diagnosis Rafa received from the federazzi!
Correction
…OCD…
Gussie: For goodness sake. It’s not something the anti-Rafa brigade have made up. It’s plain for the whole world to see. What’s more Uncle Toni himself has confirmed Rafa suffers from OCD.
ed251137@April 26, 2014 at 10:38 pm
I haven’t read in reliable sources that U.Toni has confirmed (???) Rafa suffers from OCD! Toni says Rafa is superstitious. Rafa denies that, he says he has RITUALS.
Rafa is capable of joking about his pre-service ritual! He wouldn’t be capable to do this, if his rituals had been MEDICAL problem for him!!!
See the video from 1:28 to 1:45:
“Rafael Nadal and David Nalbandian at Susana Giménez’s TV show in Argentina (18-11-2013) Part 2”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARvmRdMJUJI
“……exacerbated with worstening OCD made worse with the calculated crackdown on time violations.”
Agree with you @hawkeye63. I said as much the other day, Fed knew what he was doing, now his efforts are bearing fruit, or so it seems.
Rafa will weather the storm. Yesterday Rafa was given a time violation warning for taking time to check on a linesman. The commies compared that to an incident during the HC season when Dimitrov stopped to help a fainting ball-kid but was not given a time violation.
Vamos Rafa! You shall overcome……..
They went on to say they reckon the umpires are targeting top players and how unfortunate it is when they choose to clamp down at the moment a player is preparing to serve at a crucial moment in the match.
They literally hold the power to alter the outcome of a match. Fortunately Rafa is normally capable of weathering the interruption. I guess he is used to it now.
I see nothing wrong with stating the OCD theory as a fan of Rafa. There was a doctor that criticized the AO crowd and media for making fun of Rafa’s tics because it can be a serious condition.
The crackdown on time violations is simply ridiculous. The federazzi media has made a big deal out of nothing as a sad (yet seemingly working) attempt to disrupt Rafa’s success.
You can see him rushing through his motions and it is throwing him off.
Only the federazzi religion think time violations should be enfcorced which unfortunately is the majority sadly. Much ado about nothing.
If Rafa didn’t provide a serious argument to Fed as goat, there simply would be no crackdowns.
Vamos Rafa!!!!
#SmellTheRoses
“There was a doctor that criticized the AO crowd and media for making fun of Rafa’s tics because it can be a serious condition.”
I read that article and really liked it. Personally I am concerned that Rafa’s team is not treating Rafa’s obvious anxiety attacks the same way they treat his physical ailments. In his book, Rafa said when he was young he was hyper and Uncle Toni encouraged him to methodically go through his pre-match routines, including slowly arranging his water bottles, to help him focus on the task at hand. It worked. But it is clear these routines have become tics, a sign of heightened anxiousness and this should be addressed with the help of professionals.
Unfortunately, seeking help for anxiety attacks is deemed un-macho, especially in the sporting world, one can imagine the opprobrium that would be heaped on Rafa were he to take such a sensible step. Odd that seeking professional attention to a problem related to the muscle in your head is frowned upon and yet seeking attention to a problem related to the muscles on your thigh is encouraged. Wouldn’t make Rafa any less of a man, or sports hero, in my opinion.
rafaisthebest@April 26, 2014 at 11:49 pm
Please give me a link to that DOCTOR.
Toni Nadal criticised the people who booed at the AO after Rafa’s MEDICAL timeout.
The Telegraph 27 Jan 2014: ¤¤ Australian Open 2014: Rafael Nadal’s coach hits out at Melbourne crowd over time-out reaction
Toni Nadal, the Spaniard’s coach and uncle, has voiced his anger over crowd’s response to a time-out required for treatment to a back injury.
Rafael Nadal’s coach, Toni Nadal, has criticised the Melbourne crowd at the Australian Open for what he felt was a disrespectful reaction to his nephew’s medical timeout on Sunday night.
The world No 1 left Rod Laver Arena for six minutes, early in the second set. A physio was attending to his locked back – a break within the rules.
Yet he was booed by many fans when he returned to the court. ¤¤
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rafaelnadal/10600317/Australian-Open-2014-Rafael-Nadals-coach-hits-out-at-Melbourne-crowd-over-time-out-reaction.html
The Maestro of the federazzi, who booed Rafa during the final, blamed Rafa for grunting and SLOW play in their SF match.
Augusta08: Here’s the article from the Sydney Morning Herald regarding the psychologist and his comments: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/doctor-warns-against-trivialising-rafael-nadals-oncourt-routines-20140121-316w8.html
^^The article was written prior to the final, but it’s probably the one to which ritb is referring.
jpacnw@April 27, 2014 at 5:13 am
The AUTHOR of this article tries very much to prove that Rafa suffers from OCD.
I believe what Rafa’ team says! I have read this (quoted in this article) a long time ago!
¤¤ A member of Nadal’s camp dismissed Dr Mogan’s concerns, describing Nadal as a normal guy with routines he believed helped his tennis.
Nadal’s uncle and coach, Toni Nadal, has spoken of his nephew’s ”routines”, and his belief that anyone doing ”senseless things over and over” amounted to being superstitious. ¤¤
Thanks @jpacnw, that is the article I (and @hawkeye63) was referring to.
rafaisthebest@April 27, 2014 at 6:01 am
This article is about Jim Courier & Lleyton Hewitt’s commentaries, but I didn’t find (in the article) WHAT they said.
Quote: ¤¤ Dr Christopher Mogan was so outraged by commentary from Jim Courier and Lleyton Hewitt during Nadal’s third-round match against Gael Monfils that he contacted Channel Seven to complain. ¤¤
When Rafa is on his game and feeling it, nothing can stand in his way. If the time violations are bothering him, it’s just piling on after the AO final loss and the back injury and recent losses.
I refuse to give the power to Fed and and the Federazzi. Rafa has managed to deal with so much and has proven his greatness despite any and all attempts to stop him. It’s in his hands. Right now he is beating himself and it has nothing to do with the time issue.
I do agree that umpires should not have the power to influence the outcome of a match. For me, that is worse than a player going over the allotted time limit. They should exercise discretion in enforcing the time. That’s just common sense.
http://www.bdlive.co.za/blogs/health/2013/06/04/there-is-a-reason-for-nadals-annoying-tics
It’s not just the “Federazzi” It’s also people who like Rafa and are concerned that the tics are getting worse and impacting on his play. He looks very unhappy on court at the mo.
He’s also got a few phobias hasn’t he? Fear of the dark? Dogs, I’ve read somewhere?
OCD can get worse with age, unless treated, so I hope, for Rafa’s sake, they hurry up.
deucy@April 27, 2014 at 5:30 am
—It’s also people who like Rafa and are concerned that the tics?—
Really? Actually, the author of this artice referes on ‘ONE writer on the internet’!
Quote:¤¤ One writer on the internet gives a list he calls Raffa’s “elaborate and nuanced 12-step programme”…¤¤
The author of the article writes: ¤¤ Raffa is clearly OCD — even his uncle-coach Tony Nadal is reported as saying so.¤¤
I haven’t read this in reliable sources.
Sorry, the Australian Doctor is a doctor, of course!
@augusta08, we are not doctors, neither are we part of Rafa’s inner circle. We are just speculating, we cannot know for sure why Rafa does what he does. Only he knows. But he also may not know, this is why I am saying maybe the opinion of a professional might help.
I certainly think his pre-service routines have become more elaborate, lengthening the time he takes before serving, resulting in him being penalized for violating the time rule. This in turn, appears to worsen the rituals because he appears to hurry himself up but actually this makes the rituals appear more elaborate, a vicious circle!
Why does this concern me? (a) if he is given a warning, the second warning results in him losing his 1st serve, not good (b) this focus on the time violations makes him lose his focus and rhythm, not good.
Rafa has always had his pre-service routines, nobody complained, the game flowed. But that was before he was far behind Fed in the Slam count. Then he started creeping up in the Slam count, and his body did not completely break down as everybody (including Fed), expected. I may be paranoid, but I do not think Fed complained about Rafa not being penalized for the amount of time he takes between points for the hell of it. The same reason he complained about Rafa’s grunting during the semi at AO 2014. Fed wants to destroy Rafa’s rhythm. He knows making him anxious will disrupt his focus and rhythm.
I do not want Fed (and his establishment fans) to succeed. This is why I hope Rafa and his team find a way to calm him in his pre-service rituals/OCD/superstitions, whatever one calls them, I do not care. All I want is for them to find a way of shortening that service routine so unnecessary attention is paid to it.
Btw, I have long suspected I have a mild form of OCD myself. Have I sought help? No. Why? Because I am an idiot. The irony is that I find physical exercise calms me down a lot. But the difference is mine is not competitive exercise, like Rafa. No pressure on me. But the stress build-up, I certainly empathise.
We are not disrespecting Rafa. We are genuinely concerned.
rafaisthebest@April 27, 2014 at 6:28 am
—we are not doctors, neither are we part of Rafa’s inner circle. We are just speculating, we cannot know for sure why Rafa does what he does.—
Who are ‘we’? I read in many comments here the diagnosis ‘OCD’ !
—Fed wants to destroy Rafa’s rhythm.—
Exactly! And that is also the federazzi’s purpose!
We are myself, @hawkeye, @deucy, @ed251137, the Australian Doctor. Anything else?
http://www.pchtreatment.com/psychological-treatment-blog/category/general/
Scroll down to the article specifically on Rafa. Lots of direct quotes which I found both interesting and sad.
deucy@April 27, 2014 at 7:07 am
I scrolled and read. Quote: ¤¤ However, when asked if the repetitive courtside rituals are a symptom of OCD, Nadal conferred with his publicist before cautiously answering. “It is something you start to do that is like a ROUTINE. When I do these things it means I am focused, I am competing—it’s something I don’t need to do but when I do it, it means I’m focused.”¤¤
I have read this Rafa’s explanation a zillion times!
Secondly, isn’t it weird that somebody asks HIM the same question: ‘if rituals…are a SYMPTOM of OCD’ !!??
I am wondering WHY the Federazzi keep creating these articles?
I can’t take seriously “doctors” who give diagnosis in the media!
Correction:
Secondly, isn’t it weird that somebody asks HIM the question: ‘if rituals…are a SYMPTOM of OCD’ !!?? ‘Somebody’ seems to be very eager to get conformation of the diagnosis what the federazzi keeps giving HIM!
Actually, it’s difficult to believe that somebody asked Rafa about ‘symptom of OCD’. The REAL question has usually been: ‘are you superstitious’?
^^^^Fed is the master of mind games and doesn’t hesitate to use them to unsettle his opponents at every opportunity. But I don’t understand why you are suggesting the Fedups can have any effect apart from riling Rafans on tennis forums.
My comment at 7:13am is in response to Augusta@6:43am
Deucy: Andy has been on the receiving end of Fed’s mind games more than most, no?
ed251137@April 27, 2014 at 7:13 am
— But I don’t understand why you are suggesting the Fedups can have any effect—
Where was I suggesting THIS! I have argued about the diagnosis ‘OCD’ given to Rafa by the federazzi through the media.
My bad. By ‘Federazzi’ I thought you were referring to the Fed fan club. Just cottoned on it refers to the legion of journalists and commentators who are still in awe of Federer.
#SlowOnTheUptakeToday ? 🙁
ed251137@April 27, 2014 at 8:02 am
Yes, I give this name to the huge angry legion.
ed251137@April 27, 2014 at 8:02 am
By the way, Fed fans call Rafa fans ‘vamosbrigade’. It’s a generalization – It doesn’t mean that these Rafa fans are commenting on VB.
I’m still not clear if you are disputing the OCD diagnosis or simply questioning the current spate of commentary on the subject.
ed251137@April 27, 2014 at 8:11 am
Isn’t it a violation of medical ethics, if a real (!) doctor gives a diagnosis through the media! How can this doctor be taken seriously?!
@augusta08, THIS doctor is not Rafa’s doctor, so there is no breach of confidentiality. He is an expert in the medical field and experts give opinions everywhere, in journals, on the web etc. Nothing wrong there.
Agree if his own doctor were to reveal his findings it would be a gross breach of medical ethics. This sudden focus on Rafa’s symptoms is the natural consequence of the tennis world (including medical qualified people and armchair psychiatrists) speculating on the reason behind what has appears to be a slump in his performance.
ed251137@April 27, 2014 at 8:43 am
—This sudden focus on Rafa’s symptoms is the natural consequence of the tennis world—
Where did you see a SUDDEN focus? Besides here. Jpacnw and deucy provided links to OLD articles.
You are in a combative mood today 🙂
By sudden, I’m talking about the recent spike in the number of discussions on the subject following the losses at IW/Miami/MC/Barca.
ed251137@April 27, 2014 at 9:37 am
My meant ‘OCD’.
OCD behaviour carries negative connotations. Maybe ‘displacement activity’ would be a more acceptable term for Rafa’s rituals.
^^This is EXACTLY what the Australian doctor was saying: that we (as a society) need to de-stigmatise OCD behavior. It is a treatable condition. It is not something you do on purpose. Stigmatisation makes sufferers shy away from seeking help, it blames victims. It is not right.
A lot of people suffer from OCD and they do not even know it. It has a spectrum, it can be very mild and be very severe, requiring hospitalization.
Again, I am not a doctor and am not pinning any diagnosis on Rafa. All I wish he does is to speed up his service routine so he does not give the Federazzi an excuse to penalize him.
rafaisthebest@April 27, 2014 at 9:11 am
The Australian doctor criticized commentary from Jim Courier and Lleyton Hewitt during Rafa’s 3-rd round match! WHY did this doctor decide to give a diagnosis through the media?! The article question is not written to defend Rafa! It’s written to CONFIRM the diagnosis given by the federazzi a long time ago!
I have a huge list of urgent jobs to be done today but it is now 11.40am and what am I doing? Chatting on Tennisgrand!
#HumanDisplacementActivity
I think the reason he lost in Australia is still haunting him He lost because he was injured and he probably hasn’t put too much into his practice sessions because he doesn’t want to be injured again.
Whatever it is, I sincerely hope the slump ends soon.
Vamos Rafa
Perspective –
“Nadal will just choose the simplest shot in any given situation to get the job done. He’s not trying to show anybody here how good he is. He’s just interested in winning the next point. It’s in stark contrast to someone like Almagro who just in that last game when he served the ace, puffed the chest out at the change of ends. He looked like a peacock when he was walking around the net. Nadal never does, you know, he’ll celebrate winning a big point…only because he’s won it. Not showing off to anybody how good he is. He just lets the numbers tell that story.”
~Jason Goodall commenting on the Barcelona QF match (via @honesgirl)
That’s why he’s the GOAT;
That’s why he’s the King of Clay;
That’s why, in spite of his obvious inert talent, Almagro is a nobody;
More importantly, this is why Rafa will find his mojo, SOON.
Vamos!
Unbelievable! Jason has usually been a Rafa antifan. I mute the sound when he is commenting.
I missed that one (had probably muted the sound). Wonder what promoted that statement. Doubt he has had a Damascus moment.
Why are you folks discussing so much on time violation as to be the reason Rafa is losing and him losing his rhythm ? Cmon hes losing as hes not playing well between the ears. Hes lost the power, belief as he says and he needs to mentally spruce it up.The time limit came into effect late 2012 and Rafa had a heroic season in 2013 with that time limit in effect right?
Rafa is now standing exposed on his FH ad side . People can hit him wide on his FH side and Rafas FH is a huge liability when hes stretched on FH side. He either loops it back short or hits it out. Either Rafa should hit the CC FH deep to avoid getting exposed, problem is he is hitting it too short and that’s reason hes losing his matches now as many players have figured out the way to counter the CC FH and when its short, they murder it. Yest in Almargo match, his BH was more solid but his CC FH was a huge issue, it landed short a lot. To Fed, the CC FH lands very high on his BH and he cant murder it but many other flat IO FH hitters or flat top BH hitters like Stan, Almargo or Double handed BH hitters like Djokovic can murder it and that’s what they are doing. Rafa has to serve well, use IO FH or DTL FH a lot and hit his CC FH very deep to fix the issues.
@Sanju,
Thank you! Well said! I agree completely. This has nothing to do with so-called OCD at all. It’s all about the AO final. Rafa said it himself. Why can’t some just accept his own words? As you said, last year he had to deal with the new time violation rule for the first time, coming back from a long injury layoff. Did that stop him from winning? No!
I am with august on this one. Also, I think any attempt to blame Fed or the federazzi for Rafa’s problems is just absurd. We know what’s going on. It has happened in the past. Now it seems to be even worse because Rafa was obviously crushed by losing out on the chance to get the double career slam due to injury again. I believe Rafa.
Sorry, I meant to say that I am with augusta on this one. Apologies for messing up her name..
Where is Luckystar?
Nursing her bruised feelings after a bit of an arty barge.
Damn auto correct. ARGY BARGY
I happened to comment on tennis.com a week or so ago. I do that from time to time, but not that often. Luckystar saw my comment and gave me a shout out. Since I post under my real name, she wanted to know if it was me, NNY, from TT. I told her that it was me. So we exchanged some comments on the blog there.
I am not here to speak for her, but I think her actions speak for themselves. She was critical of Rafa’s game and was attacked in a very personal way. I guess she had enough and left. As I have been saying for a while, everyone should feel free to say what they think. We can disagree, but not make it personal.
I miss reading her thoughts here. 🙁
exactly… being critical of rafa’s game is often considered blasphemous here. I am sure uncle toni criticizes rafa’s game a lot too when rafa is not playing well ! so what? just praising rafa , saying all the positive things and not saying anything critical does not make you the no.1 rafa nadal fan. Luckystar is a rafanatic.. really value for inputs and analysis so surely miss her thoughts ! I am totally against these personal attacks on each other.
perhaps this is the reason no fed/djo fans are joining this little community at tenngrand ! if fellow rafa fans can get cornered by other rafa fans, how dare those poor nole/fed/muzz fans !
So we should be more tolerant while discussing stuff here..everyone shud be free to express
this OCD /time violation theory is pretty feckless in my view , to be honest..
vamosrafa,
Thank you! I second your thoughts! For what it’s worth, I am not going anywhere. I think it’s important to stay on a site even when someone attacks you personally. I prefer to hang in there and still speak my mind. However, each person must decide what’s right for them. I have to respect whatever decision someone makes as to whether they wish to participate or not on this forum.
We can disagree. That’s normal. But there’s no reason for it to get personal. Disagree with someone’s comments, opinions, ideas. But don’t throw out insults. If everyone agreed here, then this would be a very boring place!
We need to hear everyone’s voice. That’s what it’s all about.
Few things:
For the way Rafa is playing right now, he deserves all the criticism in the world 😉 . There is nothing positive to say about him in his current state.
We can hope for better things from him, but still not live in a fools paradise that nothing is wrong. Things are seriously wrong with him. His famed belief, mental strength is the biggest issue now.
Yes we are each others support here and everyone should be free to express what they want to . Personal comments should not be done but even if someone gets irritated by reading lot of negativity about ones fav player and snaps back, people should not take it personally. Eg we all know Rafa is going though a slump, I am critical and not very positive of Rafa as you all know, does not mean I like him any less. I do come to tenngrand to vent out my displeasure about Rafa and at times to seek some positive hope from some of you on his state, if I read negative comments from all and sundry, it is obvious that one will get frustrated more as purpose of coming on this site is defeated and in that situation, you may snap at someone (though I have not yet at anyone) ,however that does not mean one will get so touchy about it and stop posting or leave the site for good. Its tennis after all and we all love Rafa but hes not part of our family that we get so touchy about it 🙂
we all here love Rafa and that is what we have in common…but we also experience Rafa’s defeats differently and we express our disappointments in unique ways…we usually come to tenngrand not only to discuss tennis but to find some sort of sanctuary…we communicate with each other almost on a daily basis…nobody can stop any of us from saying what we want…and if in the heat of arguments someone says something that might cross the line it should still be OK. We are like a family here! IMO taking personally anything said here which is related to tennis is childish…don’t we all argue with our best friends, with our siblings? It does not mean that we should stop communicating with them just because we happen to disagree on something…I think Lackystar is overreacting and being extremely childish (and if I remember correctly this is not her first time to do so…)
tenngrand is a perfect place to discuss tennis, but also to have fun, to laugh, to share your feelings and your fears about your favorite player, and most importantly to celebrate…NOBODY should get insulted or hurt at comments addressed here…I really think we are far better than that…
These are difficult times for Rafans…we cannot afford to fight among ourselves…we need each other…we have an important role to fulfill…we must be here and stick together to support our Rafa who is a wonderful human being and deserves the best fans in the world… 🙂
Vamos Rafa!
@natashao2013, it’s called passive-aggressive behavior, towards me, because “I made @Luckystar leave”, allegedly. Seriously, this does not bother me, we all deal with situations differently. I said what I had to say to @Luckstar directly to her. It ended there, no carry-over, no innuendo, no unresolved negative feelings, no grudges, done.
I’ve moved on.
However, I would hope that if anyone has any unresolved feelings towards me, they would address me directly, and we have a direct, adult conversation about whatever is bothering them.
@natashao,
I agree with much of what you have said, but the simple truth is that there are some who presume to judge other Rafa fans and find them lacking. I don’t think anyone here gets to decide who is a good Rafa fan. What you say about all of us being allowed to say what we think and being unique, is a wonderful sentiment. But there has been an intolerance at times if some choose to support Rafa in their own way.
I also think that it’s naïve to think that people don’t get hurt when they are attacked personally. One thing that bothers me is when anyone here states publicly that they will ignore another poster’s comments going forward. Why this public shaming? Why not just do it and not announce it? No one likes being called out in that manner. I also don’t think that if a Rafa fan defends another player, that this means they are not being loyal to Rafa. One thing has nothing to do with another.
It’s very nice to talk about tolerance and acceptance, but actions speak louder than words. I don’t know that it serves any purpose to criticize Luckystar now that she has left. What’s the point? Nobody ever said she was perfect. None of us are. But when a valued member leaves, then it’s a good time to take a moment and think about what it means. I choose to stay here and continue to participate. I want to be here. But if someone makes a different decision, then that should be respected.
It would be great if Rafa fans could just embrace each other despite whatever differences we may have.
Lucky did not even go through a fraction of what was hurled at me on TT, about me, my country, my race, my fellow Indians at large. Who cares at what a moron said anyway. To me I just ignored it because I know that person had serious issues internally with himself and insulting others on a forum gave him a false sense of superiority , but fact is he himself knows what an insecure and low self esteemed guy he was 🙂
I have noticed that people who like to criticize roughly are very sensitive to criticism.
Totally agree augusta08. Much like how hawkeye/conspirator started whining uncontrollably when he thought Ricky once called him a troll on TT. It got so bad that Ricky told him to stop posting on threads and email him any concerns. I only say this now because I’ve noticed whenever I support my player he tries to harass me, but I want to try to shed some light on what he really is.
Proof of any of those accusations? Particularly the latter. Talk about someone trying to feel better about themselves.
#ThoughtNot
#Falsehoods
#PersonalAttacks
There’s not passive-aggressive anything going on. We don’t need amateur psychologists here. Just to make it perfectly clear, I don’t talk to people who have publicly stated that they will ignore me.
I am not assigning blame for Luckystar leaving. She made her decision. That’s her right. There’s a certain amount of defensiveness right now. If I thought that I could have an adult conversation, then I would have it. But I know better.
I agree that it’s the ones who criticize the most who have the toughest time dealing with criticism directed at them. There’s a lot of that going around. If anyone here is going to attack other Rafa fans for not being good enough, then expect to get it right back. No one is God here. There is no right way or wrong way to be a Rafa fan. But the minute anyone says something that is critical of Rafa, then it’s always the same ones who take offense. If people do not feel free to say what they think, then the site as a whole suffers.
@nny, there is passive-aggressive going on here, and you are the chief culprit. That is the way I see it and I don’t need you telling me otherwise. Who has publicly stated that they will ignore you? If you are directing that at me then why are you reading my post?
If you criticize Rafa, expect to be criticized back.
Enough.
@ritb,
Well you finally saw fit to address me by name. Will wonders never cease! I absolutely take exception to your comment that I am the chief culprit of passive-aggressive behavior. If you think that something I said is directed at you specifically, then maybe you are the one with the problem. You have publicly stated that you will ignore my posts in the past. I even tried to apologize, even though I didn’t think I did anything wrong. But nothing I say is going to work with you.
There is a lot that I could say about your comments here. But I have kept my mouth shut. I have tried to participate on this site, but your latest comment makes me feel unwelcome. It’s personal with you and that’s unfortunate.
I also don’t like implied threats. Since when did I criticize Rafa? I want to know. You a few self-appointed others here think that you can go after anyone who says something you don’t like. It’s not just about Rafa. I am going to say what I think and if you attack me personally, then that is not acceptable. There is no reason for personal attacks for any reason. You don’t have the moral high ground. You don’t run this site.
This is Ricky’s site. Not anyone else’s. He makes the rules. He will let me know if I am out of order, not you. I am going to continue to participate and say what I think. Period.
@nny, my post of April 28, 2014 at 7:27 am stands. Throw whatever accusations you want at me, believe what you want, call me whatever name you want.
Please be advised: If you attack me, directly or indirectly, I will respond. Period.
if you need to talk to someone personally, even if it’s something like this relatively harmless “please be advised” disclaimer, just e-mail them. thanks.
Thanks Ricky, makes sense……………
@NNY As usual I completely agree with you.
@RITB You are not responsible for anyone leaving. People weigh up pros and cons of stuff they do in their free time, and if the scales come down on the cons, they’ll stop. But it’s their own decision alone.
Have got to say though, this site is becoming very “mono-cultural” I seem to be the only Andy fan here, no Nole fans, wonder why, one Fed fan possibly, occasionally? Plus being jumped on for any speculation about what’s up with Rafa, does not make for a very vibrant or exciting site for anyone except the most fanatical fan.
—Plus being jumped on for any speculation about what’s up with Rafa, does not make for a very vibrant or exciting site for anyone except the most fanatical fan.—
Yeah, once upon a time, there were ‘good times’ at TennisTalk when being a Rafa fan was a sin in the eyes of the legion of the federazzi.
😉
@ritb,
So does my response @ 8:13 pm. You started the name calling with the passive-aggressive business. Don’t try to put it off on me. I am just not going to let you get away with it. I am not going to be threatened by you publicly on this site. Luckystar may have left, but I am still here. This is not a clique. This is a tennis site where everyone has the right to participate without fear of retribution.
@nny, please yourself, dear…………….
Tennis-x is mono cultural,isn’t it? But it doesn’t stop deucy being a regular poster there, where the single criteria to be accepted is NOT to like Rafa. At least Ricky doesn’t make anyone feel unwelcome here unless they are trying to make trouble.
Fans of other players avoid this site because they know they won’t get away with the nastiness they exhibited on TT, against Rafa. A lot of them never have anything to say about their own favourite players, their only reason for posting on a tennis blog is to take a dig at Rafa in the most unpleasant way. A genuine fan wouldn’t have any reason not to post here, whereas on the dysfunctional tennis blog, the most benign comment by a Rafa fan is moderated.
I don’t see anything wrong with saying you don’t agree with someone else’s point of view. Do we all have to agree to agree. How boring would that be?
No tennis-x is not “mono-cultural.” True there are more Fed fans there but there are more fans of other players too, including Andy and Nole.
I have never said anything “Anti-Rafa” on there either. It’s read by people on here, so it would be pretty silly if I did, but I am not that duplicitous.
In fact, as RITB will vouch, I called a poster out on an especially nasty post about Rafa and reported him to the mods.
I do hope its not a “sin” now to post on tennis-x, along with everything else!
^^Oh, show me a person who does not enjoy a sin or two and I will show you Pinocchio! “Sin” away @deucy!! I must confess to having “enjoyed” reading you being accused of being a Rafan over on Fed-x blog, hehe!
deucy@April 28, 2014 at 6:29 am and 12:29 pm
If my memory serves me correctly, there were two Andy Murray’s fans on TennisTalk – you and alex. So, on The Grandstand there is only one his fan less than on TT.
There are only 2 types of fans on tennis-x:- Rafa fans and anti-Rafa fans. Hippy Chick is only accepted there as a Rafa fan because she sticks the knife into Rafa every now and again and says how much she admires Federer and Nole.
So why are Rafa fans heavily moderated whilst others can make libellous accusations against Rafa and say whatever they like and absolutely nothing is done about it. If you are a known non-Rafan, you are in on tennis-x.
At least Rafans have some refuge on The Grandstand, because we know it’s not a toxic Rafa site.
#calmdowneveryone
#Notenniscurrently
#favoriteplayerwithdrawalsyndrome
My apologies to you Ricky. I certainly do not enjoy seeing you drawn into “this”. I hope I can resolve any differences I have with fellow posters in an open, adult manner.
Sorry.
@PseudoRicky
^^^^^^TOUCHE
It’s not okay at all. No one should ever feel unwelcome or ganged up on or subjected to personal attacks. It’s getting out of hand.
@Lucky
Hope you’re following this debate 😀
I think I can understand where Lucky is coming from. To have your integrity called into question is wounding as I know to my cost – particularly if the people calling you out are those you regarded as allies.
Over the years Lucky has provided as with food for thought on an almost daily basis offering up perceptive, impartial commentaries on how she sees the situation at any given moment. Personally I am in awe of her extensive technical knowledge and encyclopaedic memory for the finer points of a player’s game and the matches they have played.
When Lucky left TT I assumed it was because of the revolting trolls who invaded and ruined the site in the final months – I was not aware there had been other issues.
@ed,
I agree with you. The comments directed to Lucky were intensely personal. To tell someone – I don’t care anymore, you’re not worth it – is really over the top. That’s uncalled for.
I remember what it was like with scoretracker. That was the absolute worst. Public personal attacks on a tennis forum are hurtful. They are intended to humiliate and embarrass someone. Finally we have a forum here where we don’t have to be subjected to that kind of thing. But there are some who seem to think that they can say whatever they want if they don’t like what someone says.
I enjoyed many discussions about all things tennis with Lucky at TT. I also learned a lot from her. She has a great tennis mind and can present her point of view backed up with stats and facts. It is true that Lucky left because of the trolls. She said as much. Now she is being criticized even though she’s gone. I wish that she was still here, but I respect her decision.
I for sure enjoy rafaisthebest analysis and tennis knowledge, but what I love the most is her spirit, her humor and her eloquence…I love reading her posts…so there, we all have our favorite posters here… 🙂
However I also enjoy reading other posts as well even though I may disagree with them…I have to admit I was sometimes mad at Sanju for his pessimistic approach but I learned that it is the way he is and I respect that 🙂 thanks to him I learned to lower my expectations which then helps me survive Rafa’s defeats better…so we all here learn something from each other…we are a functional community here, and a very direct and honest one, so that is why I love being here and I have no reason to go to other sites…Nole fans, at least those that I personally know hesitate to join us only due to the language barrier but they regularly read our posts…they will come, give them some time…
And of course, let’s not forget our Ricky: he is the best of the best… 🙂
Vamos Ricky! 🙂
AND of course
VAMOS RAFA!
natashao2013@April 28, 2014 at 1:07 pm
—Nole fans, at least those that I personally know hesitate to join us only due to the language barrier but they regularly read our posts…they will come, give them some time…—
I don’t miss any attackers.
^^Ehmm, @natashao2013, you can stroke my ego anytime, Lol!
Seriously though, I know I can be an a&*hole sometimes but an honest a&*hole nevertheless, no smoke and mirrors. And I honestly do not mind being called out for it, directly. And I will return the favour.
I do not hold grudges, EVER. If we have a dust-up, I don’t hold back, BUT IT STAYS THERE, I absolutely refuse to carry negative feelings, ever. That’s how I am in real life. And that’s how I am on tennis forums too. 😀
……comes with having the attention span of a gnat, but there ya go……..
Haha thanks natashao. Infact I always look out to you to give me hope when I like am mad at Rafa for just goofing it up and playing badly 🙂 You always used to see the silver lining in the cloud .
However I maybe pessimistic most of the times but not always. Eg is USO 2013 final when all hell broke loose here after Rafa lost the 2nd set and Nole broke him to start the 3rd, I was the first one to see he is clawing back and said it out loud here that he is slowly finding his groove back and he did and broke Nole back and even won the 3rd.
I have also gone on record here to say that irrespective of however abysmal Rafa is looking now, I would not be surprised if he wins Rome, RG and Wimby (yes Wimby) this year. Yes its more a wishful thinking on my part given Rafas current state and I am drawing my wishful thinking primarily based on how Fed turned his disastrous 2009 1st 4.5 months around by winning Madrid, RG, Wimby.
So you see I can be positive at times too 🙂
The nice Nole fans on TT didn’t really post that much not even when Nole was at the height of his achievements. The ugly ones won’t come here because their sole purpose for posting is to insult Rafa and they know they won’t get away with it here.
I too miss lucky’s insightful and passionate posts here.
And I enjoy ritb’s posts just as much. True.
And fandom draws us in deep, doesn’t it? Lots of feelings, emotions, values mixed into it. Makes sports enjoyment what it is.
Whenever I scroll through comments on other sites I find them boring as hell. Same old tit-for-tat, same old cliches, same old tedious monologues etc. etc. I thank my lucky stars to be part of this community. It knocks all the others into a cocked hat.
I long ago stopped reading any other site. That’s just me.
And that includes reading articles elsewhere, for the most part.Thanks mostly to our own rafanik aggregators here who give us summaries, excerpts and links to useful articles… there is not even a need to go to Rafa sites, that’s how good it is here 🙂 — thank you very much aggregators! You know who you are :-).
http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Will-Nadal-Find-a-Reason-Where-Others-See-Blood.aspx
:Like:
Particularly…
“Psychologically, the underdog mentality could be exactly what Nadal needs to drive him out of his current state of slumber. If he waltzed into Roland Garros on a winning streak he might be far more vulnerable, but now, looking over his shoulder and driven by his own obsessive fear of failure, Nadal could be arriving at the introspective, neurotic sweet spot that suits him best.”
“In the end, we might come to the realization that it wasn’t really blood we saw in the water. It was just a reflection of the sanguine desire of a man they call the king to once again prove his mettle”
Thanks @Sanju. Nice read.
Great reading, Sanju…thanks ?
hawkeye, very eloquently put.
I have not gone through each and every post due to some time shortage but will briefly comment based on what I have read.
my post was NOT directed to any one particular rafa fan here on tenngrand. Of course I am referring to some people and they know it so there is nothing hidden.
whatever your points may be, I cannot decipher the reactions when a rafa fan here is being critical of rafa’s game OR he tries to praise rafa’s opponent ! Most of the times, I see emotion-driven personal attacks in response, nothing else. If you disagree with someone, use the wonderful tool of LOGIC.
This would be a pretty boring place if everyone starts to agree with eachother. I encourage disagreements but in a respectful manner.
Deucy is right about the mono-cultural thing too. Anyway, I am completely for avoiding these personal attacks and stuff. Its most fun to discuss tennis the way Luckystar does !
I appreciate/encourage the contributions of many rafa fans here. They keep us really well updated about rafa and we are thankful to them. I am glad we are having this discussion where everyone is saying whatever they want to.
apologies if anyone got hurt by my posts and dislikes them.
vamosrafa,
Bravo! Well said! I don’t think you said anything wrong at all. You were just saying that we should all feel free to express our opinions without fear of retribution. There is no reason for personal attacks. It should never get to that point.
vamosrafa@April 28, 2014 at 7:19 pm
—Deucy is right about the mono-cultural thing too.—
Do you really miss attacks of the legion of the federazzi ❓ ❗
@vamosrafa, my take is as follows:
1. No-one should be afraid to criticize Rafa, his team or any poster. They do not deserve to be called anti-Rafa or a lesser Rafan because they are critical of Rafa, his team or other Rafans.
2. No-one should be afraid to criticize anyone who criticizes Rafa, his team or any poster, be it another Rafan or otherwise. They do not deserve to be called blind Rafans, or told they think they are more Rafan than anyone else, or that they are trying to appear more Rafan than anyone else. If you are comfortable criticizing someone, especially someone who is not available to defend themselves, you should be comfortable being criticized yourself.
3. Rafa does not post on Tenngrand. He cannot defend himself to any criticism levelled at him here. So if he is criticized on here, why should those who defend him be vilified, or be silenced, or put on a guilt-trip? For a lot of people, it is a natural instinctive reaction to defend those who are not available to defend themselves. Or they could simply want to defend their hero, Rafa. Just as Novak fans, Fedfans etc would do for their hero. Most Rafans are content to be just that, Rafans. They do not want to claim to be morally superior, or more objective or more fair. They are happy being subjective Rafa fans. This does not mean they are anti-Fed, anti Novak or anything like that.
4. It is always easier to see the speck in another’s eye. Just as it can be easy for me to call someone else’s remarks a personal attack, I should also realize that my remarks may come across as personal attacks to other people.
5. Saying someone is being emotional is not an argument, it is closing a discussion, in not a very nice manner. Women are especially sensitive to being called emotional, the
characterisation, especially if brought by a man, has negative connotations.
6. Last, but not least. We should not forget this is an international blog, with posters from different cultural and linguistic backgrounds. So, opportunities for things being “lost in
translation” are real.
Just my tuppence worth. Thank you.
Anyone seen the betting odds for Madrid? This article makes Rafa favourite for Madrid. I want to believe but…………..:
http://www.livetennis.com/category/livetennis-news/rafael-nadal-still-favourite-for-the-madrid-masters-title-201404280005/
Isn’t it true that the oddmakers set their the odds based on how their reading of how the public will bet, and so based on what the public believes the odds to be?
For some reason I can’t see the full spreads as per usual on the net…………or maybe I just do not know how to read what’s available 😀
yes, and then they adjust them as the money comes in
bettors dictate spreads, not oddsmakers
^^Ooops, goes to show my ignorance about the betting world……..
@vamosrafa,
For what it’s worth, I don’t think you have anything to apologize for. There will be attempts to rationalize what has been going on, but your points are well taken. I can support Rafa without going on a crusade to shout down anyone who may not like him. I have come to accept that not everyone in the world will love Rafa the way I do. I can’t control them or change their minds. All I can do is support Rafa in the best way I know how. I am not going to personally attack someone just because they criticize Rafa. I won’t go there. I don’t presume to run the world.
I used to go after the haters, but now I believe it’s a waste of time. They are not worth it. It’s convenient to justify one’s actions by saying it’s all about protecting. Rafa. But Rafa doesn’t exhibit that kind of vengeful behavior. If Fed says things about him that aren’t nice, you don’t see Rafa responding in kind. He stays true to himself. He won’t lower himself to that level. If Novak is disrespectful to him, you don’t see Rafa behaving in a similar way. Rafa has his values. He lives by them. I think that’s another reason to admire him.
There are many ways to justify bad behavior. People can be very self-righteous in doing so. But that will never make it right.
Round and round the mullberry bush we go……………….
Rafa was in peak form last year in Rome in semis and final against Berdy and Fed , we thought he had hit his stride. We then saw he completely regressed all of a sudden in RG 1st week and played really poorly in the 1st 3 rounds, even lost sets to unknown players. He slowly got it back 4th round and QF against Kei and Stan , with Novak it was up and down in semi (he was mentally solid in 5th set though and just did not relent) and in the final, he demolished Ferrer.
What I am trying to say is you can regress from being in top form all of a sudden and you can also suddenly get your mojo back all of a sudden (eg in 2011 RG, Rafa played horribly in 1st 4 rounds but suddenly got it all back against Soderling in QF). Let us not lose hope. Maybe Rafa can /will turn it around and I hope he does.
I have no much hope from Madrid at all but Rome is the key. If he wins Rome, he is very much in the reckoning for RG.
@ Sanju,
I completely agree…I think that is exactly the kind of player Rafa is…he quickly climbs to the top when you least expect it (after the tough injury) and then drops down when you expect him to shine the most…last year’s Wimby was still a shock for me…I thought Rafa had momentum, he had his game, he had confidence at the high and yet he ended losing to WHOM?! (not even worth mentioning) So, as a result, I said to myself: ok, that’s it; Rafa may still win something till the end of the year, but had no expectations, especially for US swing”…and Rafa surprised me again… 🙂
This is basically why I don’t believe those stories of how Rafa peaked early and his game deteriorating now, or Nole being at his peak at the moment ..bla..bla…makes no sense…they are momentum players, they are in-form or not, depends on many factors…
Finally, I am not saying that I have any expectations for Madrid…I know I would be thrilled if Rafa reached finals, but with the level of play he is at right now I think it’s unlikely…but I would be lying if I said that I don’t have HOPES…I do…I’ll always will…
Vamos Rafa!
natashao2013@April 29, 2014 at 11:01 am
—last year’s Wimby was still a shock for me…I thought Rafa had momentum, he had his game, he had confidence at the high and yet he ended losing to WHOM?! —
Rafa had a bad knee.
An excerpt from Rafa’s interview in Cincinnati on August 14, 2013:
RAFA: “My knee is healed, is working well for the moment. I felt more trouble on GRASS because the movements are less stable and I need to play lower than in the rest of the surfaces.”
sorry, I meant North American swing of 2013… 🙂
Uncle Toni and Rafa both said he had had no time to prepare on grass for Wimbledon. My own feeling was that Rafa was not exactly unhappy about that 1st round loss 😉
It’s true that Rafa struggled during the clay season last year. After losing in the MC final, he did win Barcelona. But I thought that he seemed to start hitting his stride at Madrid. That’s where I felt he played his best clay tennis up to that time. Rafa played his best in Rome. I thought that he was finally ready for RG. He had some good momentum after three wins leading up to the big one.
However, he did seem to regress in that first week. It shows just how hard it is to do what Rafa has done year in and year out during the clay season and RG. But he got better and better as he entered the second week. He couldn’t close it out in the fourth set against Novak, but I think we saw one of his finest hours in that fifth set. Down a break, Rafa just rose to the occasion with some truly brilliant shot making.
I don’t want to set expectations for Madrid, but I still have hope that Rafa can maybe turn it around. It’s a tough ask at Madrid because of the altitude and how the court plays. But I will keep the faith and stay up late if need be to cheer him on.
I absolutely believe that Rome is crucial. If he can get it going and win, then he should have some good feelings heading into RG.
Few articles
http://espn.go.com/blog/espntennis/post/_/id/1243/rafas-losses-raising-questions
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/550151/20140430/rafael-nadal-madrid-open.htm
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/suddenly-anyone-can-beat-rafael-nadal-on-clay/
Few articles
http://espn.go.com/blog/espntennis/post/_/id/1243/rafas-losses-raising-questions
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/550151/20140430/rafael-nadal-madrid-open.htm
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/suddenly-anyone-can-beat-rafael-nadal-on-clay/