The clay-court swing is kicking into high gear with the first of three Masters 1000 events this week in Monte-Carlo. It marks the return of Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray, the top two players in the world. Djokovic suited up for Davis Cup duty to help Serbia beat Spain in a quarterfinal tie, but he has not played a tournament since losing to Nick Kyrgios at the Indian Wells Masters. Murray also missed Miami because of an elbow injury and has not taken the court since dropping his Indian Wells opener to Vasek Pospisil.
Rafael Nadal, meanwhile, is going for his 10th title in Monte-Carlo—just as he will be doing at the French Open later this spring. Nadal won’t have to face Roger Federer, against whom the Spaniard is 0-3 this season, because Federer is likely skipping the clay-court season at least until Roland Garros.
Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters
Where: Monte-Carlo, Monaco
Surface: Clay
Points: 1000
Prize money: 4,273,775 Euros
Top seed: Andy Murray
Defending champion: Rafael Nadal
Draw analysis: Djokovic, Nadal, and Dominic Thiem all find themselves in the bottom half of the draw. Grigor Dimitrov is also there, but he has cooled off since capturing titles in Brisbane and Sofia to go along with a semifinal showing at the Australian Open. Nadal and Dimitrov are on a collision course for the quarterfinals in what would be a rematch of their five-setter in the Aussie semis. Needless to say, however, there is a long way to go before that potential showdown. Nadal could run into Alexander Zverev in the third round, while Dimitrov is likely to face Roberto Bautista Agut at that point.
As for Thiem, some of his best friends on tour have become familiar foes and more of the same is set to transpire in Monte-Carlo. The Austrian is also ready scheduled to meet Zverev in the doubles first round for a third consecutive Masters 1000 event. He is also in line to battle David Goffin in the singles third round. The winner of that possible matchup would probably earn a quarterfinal date with Djokovic.
A seemingly less daunting top half of the bracket should set up well for Stan Wawrinka—and to an even greater extent if Murray shows signs of rust, which would not be surprising. A relatively tough clay-court draw also awaits the top-ranked Scot, who could kick off his campaign with Tommy Robredo before a potential contest against current Marrakech finalist Philipp Kohlschreiber. Wawrinka’s section is notably soft, but he could run into some trouble in the form of either Pablo Cuevas (round three) or Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (quarterfinals).
First-round upset alert: Fabio Fognini over (13) Pablo Carreno Busta. Carreno Busta was the most surprising semifinalist in Indian Wells. Fognini enjoyed that distinction in Miami. One of them, though, will be gone before the second round of this Masters tournament. Although Carreno Busta is dominating the head-to-head series 4-0, two of their encounters have required final sets and a Sao Paulo quarterfinal earlier this season ended in a second-set tiebreaker. And of course with Fognini, he can beat just about anyone on any given day if he wakes up on the correct side of the bed.
Hot: Rafael Nadal, Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, David Goffin, Alexander Zverev, Pablo Carreni Busta, Fabio Fognini, Diego Schwartzman, Federico Delbonis
Cold: Andy Murray, Novak Djokovic, Marin Cilic, Gilles Simon, Tommy Robredo, Tommy Haas, Bernard Tomic, Karen Khachanov
Quarterfinal predictions: Philipp Kohlschreiber over Tomas Berdych, Stan Wawrinka over Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, Rafael Nadal over Roberto Bautista Agut, and Dominic Thiem over Novak Djokovic
Semifinals: Wawrinka over Kohlschreiber and Nadal over Thiem
Final: Nadal over Wawrinka
[polldaddy poll=9724682]
Comments and your own predictions are appreciated!
who ya got?
Kohls in MC semis? In one word, no.
Nole ain’t punking out to Thiem either.
#OnRafasRacquet
I am expecting Rafa to ain his 10th title.
By the way, he practiced with A.Zverev today lol
I have to see how Rafa plays his matches on clay before being optimistic. If his forehand looks as vulnerable as it did on HC, I will just have to pray that Nole, Wawa and other clay threats have off days. Till 2015, clay matches were on Rafa’s racket. Not in the last two years. At RG last year, he did show signs of his former self but alas the wrist brought an end to that story. But I know Rafa will give his all. It is a good sign that both Uncle T and Moya have accompanied Rafa to MC. Hope they will be there till RG is over when our boy will hopefully lift his 10th La Coupe des Mousquetaires. It has been a long wait.
Mary (AT 8:56 PM),
During the 2017 clay season, Rafa’s coaches are scheduled to travel:
¤ Carlos Moya to Monte Carlo, Madrid and Paris;
¤ Francis Roig to Barcelona;
¤ U.Toni to Monte Carlo, Rome and Paris (Toni may join Moya & Roig in Madrid & Barcelona.)
[Source: El Espanol]
Mr. Steve says:
Semifinals: Wawrinka d. Murray; Djokovic d. Nadal
Final: Djokovic d. Wawrinka
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/04/road-roland-garros-begins-monte-carlo-masters-preview/65456/
Good, so Nole has the Tignor curse.
“Till 2015, clay matches were on Rafa’s racket”
This. -though maybe the year should be 2014. But definitely not 2017. I will be very surprised to see Rafa win MC this year, and not at all surprised to see him fall to Zverev in R3. I think this is the tournament Nole reasserts himself. Novak over Wawa in the final, because Stanimal only shows up for GS finals.
Crazy! Djoko has not shown any such form to indicate that he’s back to his dominant self, and we have people believing he would beat Nadal and whoever in the final to win the MC title! If anything, he was having a trainer treating his right elbow during his practice session, I doubt he would be at 100% fitness level this MC.
Maybe you’re right about Novak; I don’t know about his fitness/health other than what I’ve heard and (to a lesser extent) seen. But I don’t think it’s crazy to pick him here if he’s near full strength. If anyone has not shown any indication that he’s back to his once-dominant form, it’s Nadal. He’s done pretty well this year; he’s beaten most of the players he’s faced. But apart from having to play Fed 3 times, I think he’s still largely untested. That’s almost certain to change at MC. I would love to see him and Nadal in the semis to see where things are at. But Rafa will have a very tough road to get there.
@Joe..i agree with u….what concerned me the most is that.rafa seems unable to execute when key moments arrived….At AO,he’s leading in 5th sets but gave up his chances..at IW and Miami he also failed to rise to the level he should have..in Acapulco…well,sure Sam serves crazy good that day but i still think Rafa failed to insert his authority like he used to in the past and gave too much power to Sam to dominate him…
In MC,like Hawks always said…once again it’s going to be Rafa vs Rafa first and foremost…if he can ‘conquer’ himself than he will win against any player including Nole….if not,i doubt he will retain his title this time….But,hey….that doesn’t mean i’m not gonna cheer for him….What??Hip hip hooorayyyy!!!.VAMOS RAFA!!!!
Good for you, Mira. You have to back your player. But I have to disagree with you that it’s Rafa vs. Rafa in the first instance. That would be true if his problems were mainly mental. But I don’t think they are; I think he has lost confidence the last couple of years mostly because he recognizes that he’s not able to do what he once could do.
First and foremost, it’s a lack of (or reduction in) foot-speed, which in tennis affects everything. From a technical standpoint (imo as a good club player), it is especially important when you hit a forehand the way Nadal does. It’s a very unusual shot, and to generate the combination of spin, power, and placement required, his feet have to be in exactly the right place. On a lot of shots I just think it’s harder for Rafa to get his feet in the correct position these days.
@Joe…once again i agree with u!!!That’s why we saw he FH sprayed all over the place when he hit it because he’s late to arrive like he used to in the past right?Joe….in your opinion what rafa should do to cover this weakness of him?There’s must be something he and Moya could work out to win a title again especially FO is fast approaching..
Mira, I think Rafa should follow the trend toward first-strike tennis. He still has a great FH which he is capable of hitting for a winner in many circumstances. It’s just not as good on the run as it used to be. And although his serve isn’t great, it’s improved since the AO, and he has the lefty’s advantage. Especially on the ad-court wide serve he has a lot of opportunities to end the point quickly. The other thing he has is a great volley and terrific instincts about when to come to net. If I were his coach I would urge him to use them more.
All of this will require playing closer to the baseline, which I don’t think is Rafa’s natural tendency, and which he’s generally uncomfortable doing, as far as I can tell. But I think he can do it, and it’s his best chance at this stage of his career, imo.
Joe Smith (AT 4:08 AM),
Rafa lost is confidence in 2015 because of the injuries he suffered in 2014. In 2016, he had left wrist problems that strated in spring and lasted until the last months of the year (he skipped the WTF because of that).
Mira (and Joe),
You’ve forgotten that Rafa won MC and Barcelona last year, so this ‘he’s not being able to win in finals’ would only apply on other surfaces, not on clay!
If Rafa could reach HC finals with his loss of foot speed, what more he could do when he’s on clay? I mean, he lost to Fed, not anyone else, and Querrey had to play out of his mind to beat a tentative Rafa at Acapulco. He was bageled by Kohl in the first set but how quickly he turned things around in set two and three! On clay he would do even better! When Rafa beat Sock at Miami, it was due to Sock’s poor play but when Fed beat the same Sock in IW, it was due to Fed’s brilliant play, how’s that for unbiased assessment??
Fed had his narrow escapes too esp vs Berdych, a player he practically owned. Had he lost to Berdych, Rafa might be the one winning at Miami and we won’t be here talking so much about how ‘poorly’ Rafa strikes the ball or how he’s slower these days.
Rafa is not an outright attacking player; he’s more a counter puncher and so, many times it appeared that his opponents, esp the attacking type, seemed to have the upper hand or were in control of the points but Rafa always or very often found solutions to his problems.
The A Zverev and Dimi matches at AO, the Kohl match at IW (or was it Miami?), Rafa seemed to be at the losing end but each time he turned things around. I mean that’s his style of play that we have to come to accept; he’s not an all out attacking player and he may never be even if he grows older and loses more of his foot speed and physical power. He may make more net approaches, steps inside the court more often, but he’ll never be a net rushing or a S&V kind of player.
When Rafa was just an upstart, he was playing from close to the baseline on the HCs. He wasn’t afraid to step inside the court, or moved to the net when there were chances to do so – e.g. Miami 2004 vs Fed and then Gonzo; Montreal 2005 final vs Agassi.
It’s after his successes on clay that he started to play his clay court game everywhere. It took him a few years to master the skills to play and win on grass – playing close to baseline, mastering the movement on grass, etc. It took him even longer to finally win at HC slams; by then, he was so used to playing from far behind the baseline that he needed conscious efforts to play closer to baseline and won’t do that consistently.
He has to do that imo, if he still wants to win on HCs.
Lucky, of course you’re right that Rafa is a natural counter-puncher, but I don’t think you’re right that he doesn’t need to make adjustments on clay, only on other surfaces. His game has declined across the board, including on clay. If all the top players are healthy and on form, it’s just not true any more that Rafa is the best clay courter. He may be no better than 5th, imo.
In any case, I think he has more scope for increasing the attacking part of his game than either Novak or Murray (who I think is the least naturally aggressive of the three). We’ll see over the next couple of months whether that is required or not.
@Joe…Hehe…once again agree with u!Rafa has no choice but to be aggressive in order to win even on his beloved clay..he can’t win if he’s tentative and afraid to take initiative like before..clay or not..he’s already lost his magic a little bit on his beloved surface…his supposed match with novak will tell us everything IMO..
@Lucky….also agree with everything u said!Great analysis..always be a fan of your post even you’re always critical about rafa sometimes…but that’s what fans do if we’re disagree with what he translates on court…thanks for great comments Lucky!!
If Stan and Nole play in the final, I personally would pick Stan. He takes down Djoker in finals when he needs to. Aka US Open and French Open. Even though these are grand slams, if he gets to the final, Stan is typically very motivated. Just look at that 11 match win streak in finals he had before it was broken by Zverev end of last year.
You’re right that Stan certainly has Novak’s number in finals lately. I just think if Novak gets there, he may get some back this time.
Joe, when did I say Rafa need not make adjustments on clay?? Don’t know where you get that from.
All I’m saying is that on clay he’s clutch enough to win, at MC and Barcelona! And, where did you get that Rafa is only no.5 on clay now? He had 1540 points from the clay masters last year and he had to withdraw from FO due to injury, not beaten by anyone there. So, he’s at worst no.3 behind Murray and Djoko.
This season neither Djoko or Murray has shown the form they had last season so far, so how do you know Rafa is at best no.5 and I assume you mean he’s behind them?
When all of them are healthy? Then Rafa will be no.1 on clay! He’s no.1 on clay since 2005 to 2014; it’s only in 2009 that he’s no.2, not winning the FO. His worst year so far is/was 2015 when he’s in a slump. He was leading in the points on clay last year until he had to withdraw from R3 of FO.
Lucky, I said he *may* be no better than 5th on clay when all are healthy. He hasn’t beaten either Novak or Federer for nearly 3 years (of course he hasn’t played Roger on clay, but I like Fed’s chances if they do meet at RG this time). Murray is the #1 player in the world, much improved on clay. And Stanimus Prime (2015 RG version) may be unbeatable by any current player on clay. That’s why I said Rafa may be no better than 5th. As far as I can tell, he’s fully healthy now. Given his age and injury record, I think he’s playing about as well as he can play. I just think his level is much less good, on all surfaces including clay, than it was a few years ago.
Joe, even then,you think Djoko and Murray would be as good as last season on clay? It’s strange that when Djoko and Murray haven’t even proven themselves this season to be the top two guys so far this year, and yet you and some here rate them above Rafa even on clay! I mean you think both of them who are better on HCs than on clay, would suddenly become world beaters on clay, after not playing much and not winning much so far?
Please don’t underestimate Rafa on clay! Fed has no chance on clay vs Rafa, SHBH players generally don’t play well vs Rafa on clay.
My take, the Rafa now can beat anyone on clay, and until the world beater Djoko shows up to play, Rafa would then need to raise his level and Im sure he will and he can do that on clay. I like his chances on clay this year, even against Djoko.
Lucky, I think the SHBH theory is dead, at least where Federer is concerned. It should have worked in Miami, a slow high-bouncing court. I don’t think the results on clay will be different, though sadly the chances Rafa-Fed will happen on clay this year are pretty low. I didn’t say that Murray and Novak are at the same level as last year; I said that if they were (or near their best), I think they may be better than Rafa on clay now (that should be pretty uncontroversial regarding Novak). I would never underestimate Nadal on clay. No player has ever owned a surface like he does clay. But face the facts: he hasn’t been the same player, even on clay, since 2013. Yes, he won RG 2014, but even then that he only won one other clay tournament, against an injured Nishikori who had to retire. I remember it was big news that year that Rafa wasn’t dominating as usual on clay.
Let’s see. If he has a great clay court season in 2017 then obviously I’m wrong. I just don’t see it happening.
Come on Joe, in 2014 Rafa had his back injury and he was not the same player anymore after that. However, the stem cell treatments offered hope for him, as his knees are ok now, his back too.
What do you think about Rafa on clay in 2016 compared to his 2014? I would say had it not for his wrist injury, he would be doing better than his 2014 on clay!
Don’t compare Miami to clay! Come on, Rafa could lose meekly at Miami, but come the clay season, he could go on to win important titles! Check his 2008, 2010, 2012 etc and etc to see for yourself! It’s just wishful thinking on your part, to assume that just because Fed could beat Rafa at IW/Miami, he could beat Rafa on clay! This isn’t the first time Fed had beaten Rafa at IW or Miami, still, come the clay season, Rafa would turn the table on Fed, simple as that. Rafa is not the king of clay for nothing!
And nope, the SHBH vs Rafa on clay theory is not dead. I mean when Rafa is playing well on clay, not even the DHBH could deal with him on clay! You make the mistake of assuming that Fed beating Rafa on HCs now means he can beat Rafa now on clay. Miami is not clay, it’s slow HCs but it’s not that high bouncing as clay and you can’t glide on HCs the way you can on clay.
I mean when Rafa was playing poorly on clay, even Almagro beat him! Cuevas, Stan and Thiem too beat him on clay but that’s when Rafa was vulnerable on clay. Rafa did beat Thiem and Stan at MC last year, when he’s playing well. His H2H vs SHBH players on clay is pretty impressive. There’s no indication that Rafa will be playing poorly this coming clay season.
I have to agree with Lucky here. Since when is Rafa only 5th best on clay? In what universe? Novak and Murray have not shown anything close to their best form even on HC’s, let alone clay! Neither one of them has looked anywhere close to the form that made them the top two players.
It remains to be seen if Novak and Murray can regain their form during the clay season. Right now we know that Rafa is healthy. He is not coming back from an unjury. He’s had a good HC season with his best results in two years. I see no reason to question what Rafa is capable of doing on his best surface.
I’ll have my picks up once qualifying is done.
Rafa will win without losing a set.
This article has Wawarinka over Nadal. However I disagree with both and believe it’ll be Wawarinka over Djokovic http://www.138mph.com/monte-carlo-mens-draw-analysis/
wow! you disagree with yourself?
LOL.
#ClickBaitIsEverywhere
Rafa lifted the Monte Carlo crown for eight consecutive years. Djokovic wrestled it from him just once in 2013 when Rafa was coming back from a seven month injury layoff before he went on an absolute tear for the rest of that season up until the autumn swing (traditionally not his forte) and which earned him the ‘Comeback Player of the Year’ accolade.
As Augusta and Lucky both point out, the confidence crisis which followed stemmed from anxieties about the new spate of injuries not related to the knee problems which have plagued his entire career. Rafa faces a tough draw with dangerous YoungGen players in his path but it would be a rash punter to wager a bet on Rafa not lifting his 10the MC crown.
I think Atul is a tad over optimistic it will be without dropping a set but miracles do happen
ed,
I like your optimism. I think Rafa is coming into the clay season playing better than he was last year. Even though he has yet to win a title, he has gotten to the final of a slam and a few tournaments. I hope he can get over the hump and win a title or two leading up to RG. That is the missing piece of the puzzle for Rafa. He does have a tough draw with some young guns to face, but this is where Rafa feels most at home.
Losing to Federer three times this year is not a good sign, particularly for Rafa.
But it’s all mental, not physical or age. That’s complete BS from fedfawns and revisionists with their own narratives.
Rafa in his current form can win on clay given the current field and he’s not far from returning to his best where he can beat anyone on clay regardless of their form.
As I said.
It’s on Rafa’s racquet. Nothing new.
Period.
Same as Nole BTW except potentially worse for him ATM. Mentally burnt out.
And Muzza too. I predicted he would struggle to stay at No. 1. He didn’t play well in 2017 prior to getting injured.
Tennis at this level especially among the Big 4 + a CryBaby is 99% mental.
Yes, and oddly the crybaby is the strongest mentally in the biggest matches.
hawkeye, it is getting boring, this constant repetition of the mental thing and Rafa vs Rafa. But I guess if you repeat it often enough, you get some people (like MA) to believe it.
If Rafa is in the physical form which allows him to play as he wants, no one can beat him. If his body is not cooperating, then someone else may win the title but not certain as even a Rafa with his B game cannot be counted out on clay.
Disagree. Otherwise he would have beaten Federer this year.
Also, the denial of Rafa’s issues being purely physical is boring (but not as boring as the media that ignores Rafa is not at his best against Federer who is).
You are like a broken record. We saw that Rafa has lost speed which resulted in messing up his footwork and consequently his forehand. Any one who says Rafa’s issues are not physical is deluding himself. Hopefully on clay his loss of speed will not be that critical as he will get more time to get into position. Also of course I hope his loss of speed is not permanent and he is now just as speedy as he was in his pre -2015 days.
What? lack of foot speed the only reason Rafa’s forehand has been messed up?! Actually, it has been his inability to put away routine forehands with ruthless consistency that has perhaps cost him the most. So often we have seen him construct points only to miss easy put-away forehands.
It is a combination of both things. Injuries made him lose confidence and yeah with age he slowed a bit. Now he is sometimes not able to hit run-around forehands with the same quickness and power (as he is a bit out of position sometimes). But, I see lots of Rafa practice sessions and he is BLUDGEONS the balls to every corner when is gets in the zone. I see him struggling the next day in match play!
Yes, lack of speed has been an issue but he had lost confidence in his forehand. The confidence has returned a lot and this is the optimal time for him to regain it.
Rafa is really good at hitting the reset button come the clay season and given how motivated he looks and sounds, I think he is prepared to win title after title.
It is great that Moya is there as well.
Miami final was a disappointing but the good thing if he is consistently winning matches and has been losing only to one man. I saw much improved serving in the Miami final (both first and second) but the terrible forehand misses, fed’s confidence and some back luck led to his downfall. Miami really is an unlucky place for Rafa. I remember he was up 2 sets to love in the 2005 final and had fed serving at 3-4 0-30 when Fed hit a forehand that was at least 2-3 inches LONG but the umpire and line judge called it in! Rafa was shocked but there was no challenge system and it would have been 3-4 0-40 on Fed’s serve!
Anyway, I am not too bothered about lack of speed or anything. I think he is there physically and with clay under his feet, he is going to do lots of damage.
VR gets it.
” But, I see lots of Rafa practice sessions and he is BLUDGEONS the balls to every corner when is gets in the zone. I see him struggling the next day in match play!”
#BetweenTheEars
excuse the typos :/
But yeah, confidence issue spares no one! Whatever the reasons, Rafa’s confidence dropped massively and he has done really well to recover it. I thought he was ready to win RG in 2016 but that wrist injury was too much. Full credit to him for not losing hope and fighting back.
I think this will be a very successful clay season for Rafa.
All those worrying about his forehand, don’t worry too much. He will hit is with lots of venom and instil fear again. You will see a lot of them for the highlight reel 🙂
But the way he hits the forehand in practice is different from how he hits it in match play. In matches he has to move fast to one side or the other to hit the forehand and that is where footspeed and resultant footwork come into play. Honestly I did not think I have to point out basic stuff to you hawkeye. You actually know a lot about tennis but in the instant case, your knowledge and logic are lost in your obsessive compulsion to prove that Rafa’s problem is between the ears.
I know more than you obviously.
Nothing new.
And as I said, lack of confidence is not unique to Rafa.
Apparently lack of confidence is not one of your failings as you repeat your wrong assessment ad nauseam with perfect confidence!
If Rafa had his forehand and speed and still lost matches it would be lack of confidence. But his game this year is still not good enough to beat any of the other 3 when they are playing well. Just mental strength is not enough otherwise I would have at least 40 slams!
Chicken and egg situation.
Any physical loss in speed due to age is minor.
The rest is between the ears.
you are wrong hawkeye. Loss of speed due to age, even a tiny fraction of speed, is the main reason for aging athletes to decline
You must have lots of confidence lol.
Generalizations are everywhere.
I don’t need it. You do.
hawkeye, it seems to me that I know more than you in some areas. You do not know why Rafa’s forehand leaks errors in matches. You do not know that it is the tiny drop in speed in the top athlete that is the primary cause of decline due to age. No doubt I will discover a few more such areas in due course. However this does not mean that I do not respect your knowledge or your wit.
“Loss of speed due to age, even a tiny fraction of speed, is the main reason for aging athletes to decline.” Absolutely. Jimmy Connors said long ago: the legs go first. It affects everyone, Fed included of course. Given the very small margins at the top level, even minor declines in foot-speed make significant differences. That’s what has happened to Nadal. (It also happened to Federer, but he was more than able to compensate with the larger racket. That’s why his results the last three years have been better than the previous three.)
nadal has been the second best player this year (playing on hard courts). Now tha he plays on his favorite surface, he is the clear favorite. There are no mental problems this year. He is playing well and is hungry. Djokovic, muzza, wawrinka have done nothing of note this year.
Rafa will beat them all. He might lose a set or 2 on the way, but I wont be surprised if he wins it all without dropping any.
In fact, I dont even think he will play any of them, as in they might well lose in the early rounds
atul,
I will be happy to see Rafa win whether he drops sets or not. I agree that he has been the second best HC player this year. I think he is more confident mentally than he has been in a while. Even last year once the clay season started, it was like we saw a different Rafa. He started playing really well and looked so much more like himself. If not for the wrist injury, who knows what might have happened. That is the one thing that concerns me – that Rafa stays healthy! I think if he is injury free, then everything else will fall into place.
Completely agree. If he is injury free he can play as he wants and everything will fall into place.
He’s injury free now.
Who said he’s still injured?
Oh I forgot. He’s never lost a match when healthy.
(Speaking of broken records..)
I see a repeat of 2010 for the clay season.
I hope you are right, atul. Watching sanju’s video makes me sad and nostalgic. When will I see that forehand again?
Oh I forget, Stan did have injury issues; he injured his knee at AO in the SF when playing against Fed; he played poorly after that at Dubai where he was the defending champion. He reached final at IW, meaning he’s recovering but couldn’t sustain that momentum and lost early at Miami.
Kei too has his injury issues and couldn’t defend his runner up points at Miami. Raonic is another one who’s injured and had to skip Miami. If Djoko and Murray couldn’t get back into form, this may be one of the weakest field on clay that we have in years.
Nostalgia..enjoy the video..since we may not see much of those outstanding FHs again esp the ones on the run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvh201CZYbc
Sanju That was amazing thanks for sharing those highlights 😉 ….
Question is..will we get to see it again? I mean if not at the alarming periodicity and frequency as earlier (lets be realistic) but atleast maybe at times..I dont remember seeing those unforgettable FHs ever in past 2.5 years(not sure even in AO i saw such unimaginable gets)
BTW Nole has lost his confidence.
Federer lost his after his back injury. He recovered physically but the mental side took a bit longer.
Fed and Rafa are both on record saying so.
What injury? Fed has had back issues at least since 2003 when he was deemed unfit to fulfill the military service obligations due to his long-standing back problem.
so the state of such injuries never changes?? they sometimes get worse and have better phases too! He was lacking fitness in 2013 and had to work really hard to get it back the next year.
Here is the trainer “repairing” him at Wimbledon in 2003:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3bOWmTWcAEYPOZ.jpg
and the point of the above post , esp the reference to “recovering” ?
Point and the poster AT 9:09 PM (or any other time for that matter) don’t belong in the same sentence.
Said poster is yet to have one.
There is a pointless post AT 1:13 AM.
Rafa could very well be No. 1 in the Race to London heading into FO.
If he plays confidently.
He will be no.1 in the race before RG.
Just watched some practice drills (not the entire sessions but some parts). Rafa was CRUSHING forehands in all directions and he was trying to be aggressive with second serve returns not only by hitting harder but also by changing direction.
I hope he has luck on his side and he plays a great first match.
This looks like a good opportunity to reverse his losing trend to Djokovic. Both have quite a lot of work to do for that match to happen though.
QF:
Murray over Berdych
Stanimal over Tsonga
Rafa over Dimitrov
Thiem over Nole
SF:
Stanimal over Murray
Rafa over Thiem
Final:
Stanimal over Rafa
And don’t mean to disrespect, but I read someone saying the single handed backhand vs Rafa on clay theory is dead?! firstly, it is not a theory. It is a living truth. Secondly, you’ll regret saying this because the SHBHs will continue to be at Rafa’s forehand’s mercy as long as the king of clay is hitting it well enough. You’re in for a disappointment if you think the SHBH struggles are over.
Just fedfawn wishful thinking with a bit of trolling thrown in VR (not necessarily in that order).
Nothing new.
We shall see if the SHBH theory is still the living truth. It is a liability against a heavy topper only if you have to hit the ball at shoulder height, but not if you can hit it waist-high. There are two ways to do the latter. The first is the Federer way: hit the ball on the rise. That can be done on clay, too. The second way is the Wawa way: hit the ball after it’s come back down. You have to play further back and you have to be able to bludgeon the bejeezus out of the ball, which Stan can. The last time a SHBH player won all four slams was probably Laver. There’s probably a better chance of it happening this year than there has been since Rod’s day.
Nah, Stan said after losing to Rafa on clay that he couldn’t control the ball when he had to hit it at shoulder height ALL THE TIME! The key is hitting it ALL THE TIME at shoulder height!
You think Stan could bludgeon the ball all day long when Rafa is playing well?
Fed taking the ball eatly? The thing is on clay, Rafa has more time to react, and when he’s playing well and confident, his FHDTL will do all the damage! It’s not like Djoko didn’t take the ball early with his even more scary DHBH, still Rafa could beat him where and when it mattered most, i.e. at the FO! Djoko was even quicker than Fed in his movement. Fed won’t match Rafa on clay in terms of movement, only a top form Djoko can against this Rafa (but still no where near to the Rafa at his best on clay i.e. 2008/2010).
Oh I would say no where near to Rafa in terms of movements on clay from 2005-2010; that Rafa was simply incredible in his movements on any surface and esp on clay!
Lucky. When you speak of Rafa’s good years why don’t you consider 2011. If you consider the entire year then the comparison between 2008, 2010 and 2011 actually he was most consistent in 2011 though the big titles were missing but that was mainly because there was Novak who was better than him.
He won 3 grand slams in 2010 but till the clay season started he did nothing. So in terms of actual form he was best in 2011 with only one exception of US open 2010 where his serve was better other than that there was no difference between this 2 years. Always while assessing the form it’s not just about tiles but also about his match ups’s with all the top players and in that sense in 2010 and 2011 they are equally good years and if not for Novak he might have 3 grand slams one more time, but I know if you speak about it then instead of Nadal, Djoko will look better, but there is nothing wrong in accepting it.
I’m neither a fan of Djoko nor Nadal but I enjoyed those matches when they were killing each other.
approved
Rafa played at an amazing level in 2011. Djokovic and Nadal played at a much higher level than the rest of the field. Wasn’t until 2012 that Rafa solved Djoko.
Bring back the confidence of Nadal anytime before 2014, and he will beat anyone on tour. He’s physically more than able.
Hawkeye, it’s not just about Rafa solving Novak but it’s more about Novak’s level going down in 2012.
I’m not taking a side but just see Novak’s level in 2012 it was nowhere near to his 2011 level. Before clay court season started he lost to Andy in Dubai, Isner in IW and also his other wins were not that dominating.
Oh oh bestplayer,after 2012 till Rafa’s decline in 2015, Nole kept losing to Rafa in slams. Are we to conclude that what happened in 2011 in terms of Nole’s performance was unusual? In other words are you implying that Nole’s performance was suspicious?
BP, I was talking about Rafa’s movements and his speed around the courts.
Rafa was playing at a high level in 2011 no doubt but was very poor at Canada and Cincy that year, losing in first match at a Masters at Canada. In fact that was his worst performance at those two masters from 2004 onwards. He was very poor too at WTF! Hardly the level of his 2010!
Rafa was poor in first quarter of 2010 because his confidence was affected by his 2009 knee injury when he lost early at FO and had to miss Wimbledon. He had gone ten months without a title until he arrived on clay at MC in 2010 and then started his amazing three slam titles wins. For Rafa, his good season usually doesn’t begin at the AO but rather at the European clay season.
If we assume that without Djoko in 2011, Rafa would have won all those finals that he lost (to Djoko), then of course Rafa wasn’t doing badly in 2011 (except the WTF and Canada/Cincy).
Rafa did raise his level in 2012, if not he won’t be reaching the AO final and/or won’t turn the table on Djoko at the clay Masters. Djoko’s level might have gone down in 2012 but it was just slightly, as he was still making the slam finals and having many ranking points by year end. To me, it’s more of Rafa, Fed and Murray raising their level in 2012 to counter the dominant Djoko, when instead of winning at three slams, he lost two of them – Wimbledon to Fed and USO to Murray.
BP, Rafa did solve the Djoko issue at least on clay in 2012, if not he won’t be beating Djoko at the FO2012. Djoko played better at FO2012 than in FO2011. Both Fed and Murray did beat Djoko too – Fed at Wimbledon and Murray at USO, both raising their levels too in 2012.
Rafa had raised his level further in 2013 after coming back from six months injury break, so he was also able to beat Djoko on the HCs. Djoko was playing at a high level at the FO SF in 2013; he was also playing well at the USO final that year, at least better than his 2012 final! Djoko had to suffer injury during their 2011 USO final in order to beat Rafa; it certainly wasn’t an easy victory for him, so when Rafa was playing even better in 2013, Djoko wasn’t able to beat him (well at least he won’t need to break his own back this time).
Here we go again LOL.
BP, don’t be talking about small tournaments like Dubai especially when Djokovic was still recovering just a couple of weeks after that 6+ hr match against Rafa.
Isner is a coin toss. A serve bot Pox on Tennis who can beat anyone on any given day.
Really little difference in playing level (just results) only losing to Rafa twice and Fed once in slams that year and winning WTF plus wins in Miami and Canada.
Then he loses to Rafa three times on clay and Fed in Cincy final after exhausting Olympics.
But Mary sez it best (read: concisely).
Fact is Rafa OWNED Nole in slams every year other than 2011 up until he lost confidence in 2014.
You’re just splitting hairs bud.
Ha, come to think of it, Djoko’s 2012 after his glorious 2011 wasn’t any different from Rafa’s 2011 after his glorious 2010, in that it’s the other player(s) raising his/their levels to counter the dominant player.
Djoko lost to Rafa thrice on clay; twice to Fed (Wimbledon, Cincy), thrice to Murray (Dubai, Olympics, USO). I don’t see why when Djoko lost his matches in 2012 it was due to his drop in level, but when Rafa lost his in 2011, it was due to his opponent’s high level of play. Certainly, Fed, Rafa and Murray had raised their level in 2012, after seeing how Djoko played and dominating in 2011. I mean Rafa reached the AO final in 2012 when he lost in QF in 2011; Fed reached the Wimbledon final in 2012 when he lost in QF to Tsonga in 2011; Murray reached the USO final in 2012 when he was beaten by Rafa in the 2011 SF.
Djoko made 11 finals in 2012, same as in 2011; he made 3 slam finals in 2012, same as 2011; he made 6 masters finals in 2012, same as his 2011. The differences were that he was losing more finals to the other big four in 2012.
Lucky, “Djoko played better at FO2012 than in FO2011” come on, he reached the final but his victories were not at all convincing. If I remember correctly he had to save match points against Tsonga and also the quality of semi final between Fed-Djoko was very poor. It was always expected with this form that he will lose to Rafa in the final, the only question was in how many sets. It was more like Djoko-Nadal quarters in FO15 where we know that Djoko will win even before the match started. I’m no where trying to pull down Nadal’s achievements just wanted to convey that it’s very difficult to have two best players in their best form where the outcome can be in anyone’s favour. And that year was 2011 because every time they meet it was expected that Nadal will win starting from IW(ok, serve let him down), Maimi(hard court, let the clay season begin), Madrid(Fast clay, will see in Rome), Rome(something is not right), Wimbledon(after this win, it was assumed that Nadal can never beat Djoko again) so in the US open it was expected Djoko will win irrespective of their long semifinal, but after that year it is more or less clear who will win between them, like in 2012 and 2013( to Nadal) and 2014 – 2016(to Djoko) and again in 2017 it is little confusing who will win now even though slightly in fovour of Nadal because Djoko has not shown up but still there is nothing serious has happened to him so he can come back at any time. In case if they meet in MC their early rounds will give clear indications of who will win as both are not playing well.
Lucky, if you go by the logic that other players increased their level instead of Novak dropping his level then are you trying to say that Nadal level didn’t drop in 2015 instead all other players in the field had increased their level and Nadal didn’t.
BP, Djoko wasn’t brilliant either in FO2011 against Delpo and was fortunate they stopped the match and continued with it the following day! Djoko usually not brilliant during early rounds at the slams. In fact he wasn’t outstanding during the whole of 2011FO imo, can’t compare his opponents in 2011 FO (excluding Fed and maybe Delpo) to an inspired Tsonga in 2012.
TBH, I never thought Djoko was brilliant on clay, when he often struggled in some matches during the clay events (when Rafa in his peak would dispatch his opponents in straight easy sets most of the time on clay). Even in 2011, he struggled to put away Ferrer, Murray and Bellucci on clay at the masters and lost to Fed at the FO.
Rafa played better at FO2012 than in FO2011, that’s obvious for everyone to see, so it’s not surprising he beat Djoko in the final.
BP, you’re arguing for the sake of arguing! You made yourself looked ridiculous tbh!! Are you serious when when you compare Rafa of 2015 to Djoko of 2012?????
Rafa was losing to any Tom, Dick or Harry in 2015, even losing early on clay! Come on, you’re already losing your argument and trying to be ridiculous just to fight back! Are you not capable of doing better than this??
hawkeye, no where I’m trying to say that Djoko’s level dropped by a big margin like what is his current drop in level but even a small drop in level can make a big difference against the top players. Just see his level in 2011 he defeated Fed in straight sets in AO, Dubai. Nadal in Madrid, Rome. He bagelled many players, in 2012 he was good and he ended the year as number 1 player but just that the level was not the same.
BP I do agree that Nole in 2011 and 2015.5-2016.5 was better than Fed ever played.
We just disagree that Nole in 2012 also played at a higher level than Fed ever did.
And speaking of BP, who is the best player, Best Player?
#Rhetorical
BP, Djoko in 2012 was playing at a high level! He was also handing out many bagels and breadsticks, not unlike 2011. He had 24 wins and 10 losses vs top ten players in 2012 but that included 8 wins and 8 losses vs fellow big four (1-3 vs Rafa, 3-2 vs Fed and 4-3 vs Murray), so he’s 16-2 vs the rest of the top ten in 2012. In 2011, he’s 21-4 vs top ten and 11-2 vs fellow big four, and so he’s 10-2 vs the rest of top ten in 2011.
He had 6 losses in 2011, 2 of which to big four (Fed and Murray) so remaining 4 losses to non big four – Delpo, Kei, Ferrer, Tipsy. In 2012, he had 12 losses, 8 to big four and 4 to non big four (Isner, Tipsy, Delpo, Querrey).
So you see, Djoko was effectively losing to his fellow big four in 2012, and that’s because they raised their level in 2012 to beat him! Djoko was still beating the rest of the field comfortably. As I mentioned, his fellow big four all improved over their 2011 to reach their respective slam finals in 2012 ( Rafa was injured and so had to miss the second half of the season after losing early at Wimbledon for the first time since 2005), a sign of them playing at a higher level than their 2011.
Djoko lost points at Dubai and USO when he lost to Murray (320 + 800); lost points on clay (losing in finals at MC and Rome, QF at Madrid even though he advanced to FO finals, net points lost on clay 390) when he lost thrice to Rafa. He lost 1280 points on grass when he lost to Fed at Wimbledon.
It’s because of Djoko winning at Beijing, Shanghai and WTF in 2012 that had helped him to gain points (as he missed Beijing, Shanghai in 2011 and did poorly at WTF in 2011) and so made up for the points lost when he lost to the big four at the slams and masters. The fact that he swept up three out of four of the last few events of the year said something about his level of play.
Yeah, but admittedly, Djoko in 2011, 2012 and 2015.5-2016.5 was better than ANY version of Fed.
Period!
The Stan way is harder to sustain, for sure. But many of your comments suggest you are analysing the Nadal of 7-10 years ago. He’s not that player any more, and everything I’ve said on this thread is based on how he is today, not then. Admittedly, the claim I made above was based on the other top players playing their best. Stan’s best (RG 2015) is rarely seen, and maybe he too is past being able to replicate it. In any case, Rafa has always been more consistent than Stan, and still is today.
The main point about the SHBH discussion is that it’s become over-rated in assessing Nadal’s overall prospects. Rafa’s reduced lateral movement affects everything in his game and exposes other vulnerabilities that mean it’s not all about his hitting a heavy topspin shot to his opponent’s BH. He’s less often in a position to hit that shot effectively; he’s more often playing defensive shots; and he’s misfiring more often on FHs that he does line up. So this idea that he has a magic bullet against right-handers on clay is just wishful thinking based on the player he used to be but is no more.
Er… Rafa had beaten Stan on clay in 2016, that’s not 7 to 10 years ago!
It’s more like you’re the one having the wishful thinking! Rafa is playing better now than his 2016, don’t see why it’s wishful thinking that he will beat Stan or Fed or Thiem when they meet on clay.
I don’t think it’s wishful thinking to think Rafa can beat any of the top players, or even that he can win MC -even though I don’t think the latter is going to happen. What I think is wishful thinking is when Rafa fans analyze his matches in a way that assumes a decisive advantage against the righty opponent’s BH. That may have been true several years ago (pre-2016 for sure), but I don’t think it is today. Of course, Rafa is a top player and has lots of ways to beat you. I just think mainly focusing on the SHBH is overly simplistic.
Rafa can beat anyone on clay, a SHBH opponent makes it even easier for Rafa on clay; that’s not being simplistic, but it’s being realistic.
Rafa doesn’t beat an opponent on clay just because of his opponent’s SHBH!
Joe Smith might have more credibility had he (and other fedfawns) not suddenly appeared after five years of completesilence.
Suspect timing (and fair weather fans) are everywhere.
wait, who said Rafa wins against SHBH players only because of that dynamic alone?? Rafa wins on clay due to a whole host of reasons, like:
1. He is the best mover on clay. He can slide equally well on both sides and this is quite a rarity. He can literally glide in all directions on a clay court.
2. His forehand on clay is hands down the best baseline weapon the world has ever seen.
3. His ability to retrieve ,AND turn defense into offence is untouchable.And so are his passing shots.
4. He is the master of constructing points. Point construction is KEY on clay.
5. He can play with angles off both wings extremely well.
6.His ROS is boosted on clay. He returns from deep behind and having more time on clay, he is able to have more time to get to bigger first serves, hit more run-around forehands on second serves. Federer once talked about how frustrating it is to serve against Rafa on clay because he gets to so many more first serves and starts a rally. Think he said this after MC 2007.
I can add a few more but these are enough.
the SHBH to Rafa’s forehand is one important dynamic. I am surprised Joe, that you are saying it is a dead ‘theory’ based on theoratical arguments like:
-You can either step back to let the topspin ball get low and then strike hard, like Wawrinka does.
-You can prevent the ball from bouncing high by taking it really early , like Fed does.
Are we serious here? Do you think it’s that easy to deal with the single biggest weapon ever on clay? I don’t even know where to start my explanation of how shallow these arguments are. I’ll try to write a post later in the evening to explain but trust me, ALL backhands are at the mercy of Rafa’s forehand. Djokovic was asked to choose the toughest forehand to deal with and he picked Rafa’s. Will try to elaborate in my later post.
VR: You were right to list (1) first: Rafa’s chief advantage on clay has always been his movement. It’s precisely because his movement has declined that I think he is no longer the force he once was. (2) is silly, and the rest are exaggerated. Novak of 2015-16 was better than Rafa ever was. He literally did everything as good or better, except for volleying.
Of course I don’t think it’s easy to deal with prime Rafa’s topspin to the BH on clay. But today it’s easier than it has been in the past, because Rafa’s not as good. I specifically mentioned Stan and Fed because those are the two best one-handers.
Hawk: I only found out about this site earlier this year; that’s why you haven’t seen me. I was elsewhere under the same name (I don’t ever switch names or get booted off sites like some people do). In any case, you’re guilty of an ad hominem as usual: even a fool can speak the truth (nothing else implied in the present case, of course).
Geez Joe Smith you keep breaking your word.
So pray tell, what other sites for example? Ruan’s Federer Blog per chance? I’ve been to the main sites (other than those with Rogers name in the title) and have yet to encounter a Joe Smiith.
That said I agree with you that Rafa is not the force he once was. Otherwise Fed would have been lucky to win one of their last four matches let alone all of them.
Fed is quitting whilst the quitting is good.
I extended an olive branch, Hawk, though you didn’t exactly take it.
As I think I’ve said before, I was at Bleacher Report, which seems to have permanently shut down its comments. I may have signed up at one other site, but can’t remember it. Trust me, I’ve never been anyone but Joe Smith.
Hard to make the Fedal comparison. I wouldn’t claim that current Fed would beat prime Rafa. But current Fed is nearly 36; that’s why I like to speculate about what could have been had he switched earlier to a larger racquet.
“Whilst,” huh? Perhaps you’re right, though I won’t be too surprised if fresh-as-a-daisy Roger does very well at RG.
Also, as far as your charge, one deserves nothing more when they post in bad faith with preformed conclusions and intentions, especially given the recent window of opportunity.
Like I said, credibility is questionable. Just my opinion (which you don’t read, value ir respond to anyways, right?).
Au contraire. I read and value your opinion precisely because I can distinguish what is said from who says it.
It should be obvious that I post in good faith. Disagreement happens, right?
Again, I extended an olive branch. I’ll take your continued engagement as a response in kind.
What “olive branch” exactly? That would require you having something to offer.
Fed will only continue to do well at RG if the current greats continue to play meekly.
Just like the Weak Era did.
I for one would not be shocked as I’ve expressed repeatedly.
Rafa just needs his confidence. He won’t cry on court however after having won double digit slams already. Classy? Mmmm, more like selfish.
Again, what exactly is your “olive branch”?
I never stopped responding to your posts so take it for whatever you want.
No, there can be disagreements while respecting other opinions.
But your arguments are the old and tried unoriginal same confirmatory fedfawn bias with nothing new.
And obviously in bad faith.
Too bad bleacher reports stopped allowing your comments Joe Smith. Their gain…
what?! saying Rafa’s forehand on clay is the most destructive baseline weapon is SILLY? The guy has destroyed the field several times over and was the closest thing to being ‘unbeatable’ and he did that with a sub-par serve for a lot of that time. This FOREHAND was what allowed him to PUNISH every damn opponent!
No point is exaggerated. Djokovic of 2015 on clay better than Rafa? One can’t be more biased. DO me a favor please, comment on how those points are ‘exaggerated’ ? They are very well-measured, trust me.
And how the hell is Nadal’s forehand easier to play now? Does it not have enough spin you are saying or do you mean he is not consitent enough with the shot? I hope it is the latter. Thing is, he was really ready to do big things at RG last year but was unlucky. He has prepared well and I won’t be surprised one bit if he regains consistency on clay.
At the end of 2015, Becker gave an interview and he talked about greatest players ever and he made a reference to Nadal being impossible to beat at RG and said he sometimes discusses these things with Novak as well! Of course he was referring to a well-playing Rafa.
And yeah, comment on the points I made and I will respond to each.
Please, Djoko of 2015/2016 better than Rafa ever was?? He kept losing to an off prime Fed, and lost to Stan at the FO, something Rafa would never do during his peak!
Rafa of 2008/2010 was better than Djoko of 2011/2015/2016 on clay and even on grass! Just watch how quick Rafa was on grass during his heydays!
Rafa had a very good BH during his heydays (even Fed called it Rafa’s second FH), his FH at that time was better than Djoko’s ever was. During Rafa’s heydays, his serve was clutch and placement was good(not forgetting his great serving during USO that won him two titles there beating none other than Djoko in the finals). Rafa’s net approaches were also good back then and he was/is good at that all along. His speed and movement on any surface was unparalleled during his heydays ( not even the other big four members could match). His ROS while not as great as Djoko’s, was very good and among the top few.
I think Joe should watch Rafa’s matches of his heydays to see how great he was! And I’ll always maintain that Rafa at his peak > Djoko at his peak on clay, even on grass; Djoko > Rafa on the HCs.
Djoko of 2015 got dominated by Stan at RG. Such a ridiculous statement to be honest. Prime Rafa would own Djoko at RG.
Wasting your virtual breath VR and Lucky. Joe Smith deals not with reason, but with one dimensional selective bias. He’s baiting you for a rise.
He’ll disappear as soon as Fed comes back to earth just as quick as he appeared.
When I said Rafa > Djoko on clay, and even on grass, I mean Rafa was also > Djoko on grass during Rafa’s peak on grass, not that they are even or equally good on grass. If we compare them on grass during their best years, IMO Rafa was still better than Djoko.
Exactly VR. Not forgetting Djoko was struggling against Berdy in the MC final in 2015, and was there for the taking yet Berdy as usual just couldn’t take it! I mean Berdy on clay? Djoko in his supposedly best year in 2015 still struggled to put away opponents who weren’t playing on their fav surfaces, and yet we have Joe here telling us Djoko’s 2015/2016 level was better than Rafa best level ever!
We see how ridiculously bias this Joe is; I really suspect that this Joe hasn’t watched any of Rafa’s matches during Rafa’s heydays but comes here to bombard us with all his ridiculous assumptions based on Rafa’s current level of play.
Hawk: BR didn’t stop accepting my comments; they didn’t have a comments section at all for several months after the AO. I see that they’re now back to accepting them, but no one has commented. Basically, I think they killed the site for tennis fans. But my comments weren’t uniquely targeted.
Anyway, my olive branch was a few weeks ago, saying I’m willing to engage on substance but I’m not interested in trading insults because it bores me. If you can refrain from ad hominem attacks I’m happy to respond. Lucky and VR can do it, even though we strongly disagree. You seem to have a harder time. As an example: “confirmatory Fedfawn bias” is just an insult unless you back it up. As I’ve said before, no one is free from bias, including you. That’s the main reason it’s so boring and unoriginal of you to constantly accuse your opponents of it.
Lucky and VR: Let’s stick to one claim of mine, that Novak of 2015-16 was better than Rafa ever was. Now, I don’t imagine that we’re going to convince each other, so let me stick to hard facts and maybe you can try to respond. I had in mind the roughly 12 month period from Nole’s 2015 Wimby win through the 2016 FO win; but you guys bring up the loss to Stan at the 2015 FO, so let’s take the period from AO 2015 through the 2016 FO win, after which he obviously trailed off. I’m no Novak fan, but I think his play during that period can lay claim to being the best ever year and a half stretch in the Open era. I base this claim on what all serious observers consider the most important metric of tennis success: performance in the biggest tournaments, namely, the slams, WTF, and Masters.
During that period, Novak of course won 4 straight slams, which hasn’t been done since 1969 by a male player. He played in 6 straight finals and lost to what I (and many others) consider one of the greatest performances ever in a slam final (Stan at 2015 FO). So: 5 wins, one runner up in slams. Rafa never accomplished that in 6 consecutive slams. In that stretch, Djokovic won the WTF (2015), which of course Rafa has never done. Finally, how about Masters 1000s? During the period in question, Nole made an astounding 12 Masters finals, winning 9 of them. Rafa has never come close. (At the beginning of this career he won 6 of 7 Masters, but he wasn’t winning slams apart from the French at that time). Nadal’s best stretch in Masters tournaments during the time he was also making finals in slams was from FO 2010 through FO 2012. During that more than 2 year period, he still made fewer finals than Nole did, with an inferior win pct. (10 finals, winning 6).
In short, during the year and a half in question, Nole won more slams, WTF, and Masters 1000s than Rafa ever did during a comparable (or even, in some cases, longer) time period. If you want to claim that Rafa had to contend with “prime” Nole of 2010-2012, you could limit the comparison to finals, not wins. You’d still have a problem, because Novak made as many (slams, WTF) or more (Masters) finals than Rafa did.
Joe Smith, your posts are one-dimensional unsubstantiated criticisms of Nadal, preoccupied and obsessed with Nadal.
It’s all you have to say and you suddenly show up just when Fed is doing well.
You have little to say here other than Nadal and only talk about other players to back up your views that Nadal is overrated.
It’s so old and transparent.
Again your olive branch is not an olive branch because you have nothing to offer.
If you represent the best commenters on bleacher report tennis, no surprise they shut down comments until you left.
Still breaking your promise here I see.
Joe Smith’s post AT 9:04 PM shows his whole intent here.
Not about Nole’s grand slam and great year, but solely to diminish Nadal.
Your statement would also suggest Nole was better than Federer ever was and yet no mention of that.
You may fool Lucky and VR but seriously.
So obvious Joe. Your like all fedfawns, can’t convince others when deep down you can’t even convince yourself.
Joe again missed the point. It’s not that Djoko played at such a high level in 2015 to FO2016 that he would be better than Rafa at any time! As Ive mentioned, Djoko struggled to beat some of his opponents when Rafa at his peak could beat anyone in straight sets on clay; I struggle to understand how Djoko in 2015/2016 was playing at a higher level than a peak Rafa.
I would say Djoko was having his best results from 2015 to 2016 because he was facing a Rafa who was in a slump, an aging Fed, a Murray who was just picking up from where he left off after his back surgery. Delpo wasn’t there and there’s only a Stan who stood in his way at the FO in 2015 but no where else!
I would add that the Djoko of 2011 was playing better and more scarily good tennis in 2011, when Fedal plus Murray were playing better tennis than in 2015/2016 up to FO. Still, he was no where near to Rafa of 2008/2010 on clay and he would never be.
Oh and obviously Djoko’s results of 2015 right up to FO2016 were much more impressive than Fed’s ever! I mean when did Fed win five or six masters in a season, or four slams in a row?? Joe certainly would agree with that right?
LOL Lucky, exactly.
Let’s play the Joe Smith TENNIS Best Player game and make this about Federer.
So transparent.
Lucky: I think the claim that Novak 2015-16 was better than Fed ever was has to be taken seriously, and could well be true. It’s a harder comparison, because there are things that could be said plausibly in response. Here’s one: Fed made 10 straight slam finals, and then another 8. Neither Novak nor Rafa have ever managed even the latter. In general, it’s easier to compare Rafa and Novak (and Murray) because they are only a year apart and play very similar games. Fed is 5-6 years older, almost a generation in tennis terms. Regardless, to repeat: I think my argument above may apply to Roger as well. I’ve said previously on this site that Novak’s win over Roger at 2016 AO may have been the best tennis (in the first two sets) that I’ve ever seen.
You say: “I struggle to understand how Djoko in 2015/2016 was playing at a higher level than a peak Rafa.” Do you have any reaction to my fact-based argument other than to be dumbfounded?
Hawk: More ad hominems, I see. Here’s a simple question. Do you agree with my claim that Novak was better in 2015-16 than Rafa ever was? If not, why not?
Joe Smith: Just another broken promise. What else am I to think?
To answer your question: No, I don’t. Rafa was better in 2008, 2010 and arguably 2013. Better competition.
Nah, easier argument that Nole was better than ANY version of Fed in:
2011
2012
2015.5-16.5
Nole was arguably not as good as he was in 2011, and arguably no better than when Rafa beat him in four slams (clay, HC from 2012 FO to 2014 FO inclusive).
That he won a Grand Slam on three different surfaces is something that no other player including Federer and Nadal has never done, is amazing and along with his legacy puts him right up there with Nadal and Federer as the arguable GOAT. The difference between the three is hardly worth mentioning in my opinion.
Federer’s greatest strength vs the Big 3 is his longevity.
I’ve read all of your arguments (ok not all, they are too wordy, but I get the gist). Nothing new.
The arguments are S.U.B.J.E.C.T.I.V.E.
On both sides.
You aren’t convincing anyone and no one gonna convince you.
See? That’s the difference between you and me Joe Smith. I can see how close the Big Three are.
Why don’t you just retract your statement that you will no longer respond to my posts so I can stop pointing out your failures to do so.
Now, run along, go have a coke and a smile…
Hawk, you say: “To answer your question: No, I don’t. Rafa was better in 2008, 2010 and arguably 2013. Better competition.”
That’s all you got? Better competition obviously isn’t sufficient as an answer. But do you really think it’s more important than overall results? (I did try to control for Novak as a supposedly prime competitor by only counting finals, but 2015-16 Novak still gets the edge). If so, ok, at least I know where you stand.
My olive branch included the acknowledgement that I was going back on my pledge, and gave you whatever bragging rights you wanted. Obviously you are exercising them; I don’t mind.
I agree that the big 3 are very close.
Glad to see you acknowledge that there is a degree of subjectivity (bias) on all sides.
Joe, why should I be dumbfounded?? Please read my previous post carefully, it seems to me you think with a one track mind!
As I mentioned, you got to look at the competition! Just because Djoko could play at the level he shown at AO 2016 doesn’t mean he’s playing like that the whole season! I’ve seen Rafa playing better than that on clay! To say that Rafa can’t play at a level better than Djoko’s is simply not true! I suggest you watch Rafa’s matches on clay during his heydays, in particular his FO2008 final vs Fed!
Like I mentioned, Djoko struggled through some of his matches in 2015 even though you said that’s his best season. So, your claim (that Djoko’s level was higher than Rafa’s ever) doesn’t hold true! You mixed up results vs the level of play; in terms of results, Djoko’s 2015 was better than Fed’s ever ( and Rafa’s); but in terms of level of play, I doubt so as both Rafa and Fed had played at a high level during their heydays.
I think you made the mistake of just looking at the HC results, understandable, as you won’t be looking at clay when Fed got beaten badly by Rafa all the time!
So what with Fed making 10 straight slam finals? You have to look at the competition during 2004-2007.
Djoko and Rafa faced keener competition during 2008 to 2014 (they had each other, Fed, Murray, Delpo – though he was absent with wrist injury during 2010-2011 – and then Stan and Cilic joining them in 2014 challenging at the majors). It’s from 2015 onwards that the competition became weaker, as Rafa was in a slump, Delpo was absent, Murray was trying to get his mojo back after his back surgery, Stan and Cilic were still inconsistent, and only Fed was left to challenge Djoko.
Rafa had his injury issues and had to miss some slams even during his heydays, but making five straight slam finals wasn’t bad at all playing during such competitive era and given his injury history!
Fed had made eight straight slam finals during 2008 to AO2010 so credit to him, for staying injury free and being competitive at age 26-28 amid tough competition, though he hadn’t much success at the slams winning four (five if we include 2012) compared to his 2004-2007.
Djoko made four straight slam finals from Wimbledon 2011 to FO2012 amidst tough competition, and then another six straight slam finals from AO2015 to FO2016 admittedly in not as tough competition. He was also relatively injury free until second half of 2016, and he won 11 slams during that six year period.
Fed has his longevity but in terms of ranking points and better seasons, Djoko is better than Fed, his 2015 > Fed’s 2006; his 2011 > Fed’s 2007. Djoko had more total ranking points from 2011 to 2016, compared to Fed’s from 2004 to 2009.
PS It’s a shame Rafa had his injury during 2009 where he had to skip Wimbledon; and also his knee issues that he had to skip the second half of 2012 and the AO2013. With proper scheduling and proper rest and recovery, he could have avoided those injuries and could have better seasons in 2009, 2012, 2014 and even better in 2013. He still won 10 slams out of 21 played from 2008 to 2013( 11 out of 24 if we include 2014), not bad amidst tough competition.
Lucky, obviously we’ve seen the same matches and see things differently. That’s partly bias, no doubt. That’s why I think hard results are the only objective thing one can go on. By that measure, Novak during 2015-16 was better than Novak 2011-12, and better than Rafa during the same period.
Now, you say that Novak kept losing to off-prime Fed in 2015. I think Federer in 2015 was overall nearly as good as now (others here such as Hawk think he is now as good as he ever was). The difference was that he lacked confidence in those GS finals against Novak and (I think) basically choked. But take a look at his 2015 Wimby victory over Andy Murray in the semis. Murray played terrific but still lost in straight sets. That Federer was playing at as least as high a level as he has this year. I think the claim that the 2010-12 period enjoyed stronger competition than 2014-16 is as subjective as any. It seems to me that it’s an article of faith amongst Rafa fans because their man was at his best during the first period but not during the second. In general, it’s very hard to argue that one era has tougher competition than another -especially when the players are largely the same.
On Nadal’s FO victory over Fed. Obviously he played a great match, one of the best ever. But, to my eye, it was not more impressive than Stan’s victory. Whether or not Federer was sick (as he claimed), he played poorly even beyond Rafa playing great. In contrast, I wouldn’t say Novak played poorly in that final so much as Stan played great (he hit 60 winners in 4 sets). The point is that I don’t think that is a good example to show that Novak struggled even with “weak” competition. Stan is obviously not the champion that the big 3 are, but he could have beaten any of them (imo) on that day.
Rafa – he was poised for a four in a row non calendar slam at AO2011 but he injured his thigh during the first few games of his QF vs Ferrer and then had to lose meekly(as he didn’t want to retire, having done so one year earlier against Murray at the same stage when he injured his knee). Had he made the final then, he would have made nine slam finals in a row from FO2010 right up to FO2012.
Djoko – he was stopped by Fed at FO 2011 SF and then Wimbledon 2012 SF; if not for Fed he would have made 10 straight slam finals too from USO2010 to AO2013. He was also stopped by Rafa at FO 2013 SF, if not he would make another five finals in a row, from USO2012 to USO2013.
Excuse me Joe, you seemed to be looking at the wrong things. Djoko was struggling during some of his matches even during 2015, and I wasn’t referring to FO final vs Stan!
He struggled vs Anderson at Wimbledon, not to mention during some of his matches in the Masters events; it’s not just about the slams!
Fed wasn’t sick during FO, please for goodness sake, don’t make it as if Fed was such a hero that when he’s sick he still made a slam final!! He played well enough to reach the final to be hammered by Rafa in the final. If you doubt Rafa’s level, check his FO2008 all matches; he was hammering everyone giving them breadsticks and bagels with Djoko being the only exception. How do you expect 60 winners a match when Rafa was hammering each of them and beating them in straight sets and losing very few games? I doubt there’s anyone among the current players who had won a slam losing fewer games than Rafa did at FO2008!
You tried very hard to elevate Stan’s play at the FO2015, but it’s Djoko he was playing against, not a Rafa at his best on clay. Rafa had beaten Stan time and again on clay, the latest being MC 2016. Stan is Djoko’s nemesis at the slams, not Rafa’s, please be clear with this!
You mentioned Fed’s Wimbledon 2015 SF vs Murray, but that was only one match, and I certainly didn’t see him repeating that in the final, or at the USO final, or at Wimbledon 2016 when he almost lost to Cilic and then lost to Raonic.
He played well at AO this year, but he was fresh physically and the court was fast, still he struggled through his matches vs Kei and Stan, two players he owned, and had to go the distance to beat Rafa (almost lost it) in the final. I doubt he was playing better than his AO2007!
Well 2008 to 2014 was a seven year period, enough to be classed as an era imo. Why class 2015 onwards as another era you asked, but that was the beginning of another era when the young gen players are/were making their moves up the rankings – Diimi, Kei, Raonic, and then Thiem in 2016. The older guards in the top ten like Ferrer, Tsonga and Berdych are being replaced.
You can’t deny that in 2015 it was only Fed left to challenge Djoko at the slams from the big four, when Rafa was certainly in a slump, Murray was only beginning to make slam final again, at AO2015 after not making any in 2014 after his back surgery. Delpo wasn’t there, when in 2013 Djoko had a hard time beating him at Wimbledon. Stan was too inconsistent to make it to business end at every slam though when he made the final he usually won it. Stan wasn’t particularly impressive in 2016 until the USO.
Lots of what-ifs. At 2008 AO (when Fed claims he shouldn’t have been playing at all because he was sick with mono) he lost in the semis to Novak. If he wins that match he would have played in 19 straight finals.
Please check too, when Rafa was fit and healthy he was the main rival of Djoko at the slams, from 2011 to 2014 before Rafa’s slump in 2015, with Wimbledon being the exception.
From Wimbledon 2011 to FO2012; FO and USO2013, FO2014 ( he was out injured and missed USO2012, 2014 and AO2013), Rafa was the one who stopped Djoko from winning a slam four times out of seven they met, the only one to beat Djoko four consecutive times when they met at the slams with Djoko winning the first three in 2011 to AO2012.
From 2011 to 2014, Rafa made 9 slam finals out of 13 played i.e. 69%; Djoko made 11 out of 16, also 69%. No one else came close. Rafa won five slams in them same period, Djoko won six. If Rafa wasn’t Djoko’s main rival from 2011-2014, who was? So when Rafa was in a slump in 2015, didn’t that make it easier for Djoko to win at the slams?
I think Joker’s hungry again, and Rafa’s got too tough a draw.
And Djoko doesn’t have a tough draw? He has to beat either Goffin or Thiem to reach the SF.
Some seem to have forgotten how well Rafa played in the clay season last year. He was looking much more like the old Rafa and playing like it, too. It was the wrist injury that stopped him last year.
Rafa won MC and Barcelona and seemed primed to make a great run at RG. At that time it was a welcome surprise to see Rafa regain his form on the clay.
This year Rafa is coming into the clay season already playing well. He’s had much better results so far. There is no reason to think that he won’t have success this year on the clay.
I am happy to find that both our brilliant in-house tennis analysts think Rafa will do great on clay! I feel cheered up!
Rafa is primed to have a great clay season, just like old days and he will use MC to make a statement. His game, his body language and his pre-tournament interviews all point to that direction.
Mr. Steve @MrSteve 48m48 minutes ago
Alexander Zverev sharp in beating Seppi 6-1 6-2 in 68 minutes. Could play Rafa in 3rd round. #montecarlorolexmasters
Woah that sounds really impressive but don’t worry Rafa will be ready.
Seppi ain’t Rafa!
Wait. He’s not?
More like Seppi playing poorly. Seppi is in the downward slope of his career, he’s playing poorly lately.
Wait guys, nobody said Seppi is anywhere near to Rafa. The main point is, at least for me, I’ll enjoy watching Zverev-Nadal. How quick are some of you at defending him. It’s alright, he’s a man who can take care of Zverev by himself.
I don’t think we are being quick to defend Rafa. Just stating the facts! Rafa is NOT Seppi! They are worlds apart and as Lucky said he is on the downward slope of his career. It’s not surprising that Zverev had an easy win over him.
However, Zverev will be up against the King of Clay. I respect his talent and game and think he is going to make his mark in this s sport, but there is no similarity between playing the likes of Seppi and Rafa.
Eugene, I still think Rafa is still Seppi.
I’ve heard nothing in the media to suggest otherwise.
Have you seen them both together recently at the same time?
Just sayin.
LOL
Anyone know if Nadal is playing in this event?
Please tell me you are just trying to be funny
PLEASE TELL ME I AM FUNNY
Has he played it before?
Yes TENNIS…Rafa will play on wednesday[i think,right guys?] against kyle Edmund…Time?Don’t know yet…
That is an unfortunate matchup for Nadal’s first round … someone who can actually hit past a top player’s defense and a guy who trains with Murray enough to be used to extended rallies … any rust on clay for Edmund was dusted off in the first 4-5 games today … should be a somewhat close match …
TENNIS…..Ermm…with all due respect,i don’t think it’s unfortunate for Rafa to play Kyle later…sure,Kyle got a HUGE serve and big groundstrokes especially his FH but IMO,he’s not consistent enough and can’t back it up his advantage with a win especially in key moments…his inability to do that always make him the target of angry fans on social media…and honestly,i don’t think he will give Rafa much trouble on wednesday…of coz i could be wrong but….i think Rafa will win in 2…
I agree with you, Mira. Kyle Edmund would have to play THEE match of his life to beat Rafa at Monte Carlo. It would also require luck and Rafa having a bad day, which I also don’t see happening… But technically everything is possible, so I could never say that it’s a 100% given. I think I would give Kyle Edmund a 7% of winning, I guess.
Yeah Kev..agree!As good as Sascha is and we all know that sascha is wayyy better player than Kyle,he still can’t generate a win over rafa on HC…let alone Kyle who’s not mentally tough as sascha..on clay none the less..to Kyle’s fans,i’m so sorry but i don’t think he’s there to seriously challenge rafa just yet..maybe in a couple of years..he needs to tighten up a few aspect of his game first,mental as well..and then i’m sure he’s going to be ready to challenge anyone on tour…
Oh btw ..do u participate in Bracket challenge this time Kev?
One of these days, Mira, I will do the bracket challenge… I have so much on my mind these days, and so forgetful and easily distracted, that I would probably need someone to literally sit me down and force me to fill out a bracket! You’d think it would be something I would do automatically, given my interest in pro tennis, but I’m just in a period relative lack of motivation in life unfortunately. 🙁 Ok, I’ll save any further depressing personal-life commentary for a shrink, haha.
Oh!still not join in Kev?..there’s a new member that was called ‘OKAY’… and i thought it was u since your name start with K…hehe..my mistakes!…oh,don’t worry Kev..u can join anytime u feel like it okay?
Oh!btw…u can talk to Doctor Mira if u have a problem Kev…i’m a good listener!Really!
I think Rafa would have to be injured to lose to Seppi to be quite honest.
Well, that goes for any player Rafa plays. No self-respecting Rafan would believe otherwise.
Aside: Kevin, why you ask Ricky for my e-mail and never write me.
#SittingByThePhone
Nadal gets better every round. In the 3rd round of this event I give Edmund no shot, in the 1st round when Nadal will be a bit tentative? I think he will be close in at least 1 set.
I wouldn’t call myself a fan of Edmund … he’s just a hard worker with a big forehand and players who are consistent performers like that are never fun in the first round … I see Zverev in a different light … every other match I watch him play he is smashing racquets and screaming at his players box … I think he will be in the top 10 in the future but mentally he may be focusing too much on each point, game, match, tournament to really have the right decision making on-court … I think he hits extra shots during rallies when he could end points sooner … when he calms down a bit I think is when he makes his transition and when he stops thinking about the results before achieving them I think he will be able to compete with anyone …
Tennis…Strangely,i like to see players expressed their emotions on court whether smashing their racquets,’polite’ screaming a la Rafa,fist pump..anything..because that way,they can let it out the ‘monsters’ that clearly bothering them at that time…and this method usually worked really well for them…Sacscha,Fognini,Novak..all of them already showed us they can make an amazing comeback even after lost a set or two…
But Kyle…wayyyyy too calm for my liking..even when he made a series of UE’s,he still showed no emotions whatsoever..even Rog let out a yell ‘Allez’ sometimes to express his frustrations…
Oh,bout sascha..i think we will see him keep improving his game in the future…he’s still 19 after all..there’ll be much time left for him..
Well TENNIS, it’s all on Rafa’s racquet. The opponent has little say and really doesn’t matter.
Let’s have a look at recent historical results of Rafa’s first set in tournaments on clay last three years (and he was far from his best in 2014-15):
2016:
vs Groth: 6-1
vs Kohls: 6-3
vs Kuznetsov: 6-3
vs Granollers: 6-3
vs bedene: 6-3
vs PCB: 6-1
vs Pico: 6-4
2015:
vs FerVer 3-6
vs Halys: 6-3
vs Ilhan: 6-2
vs Johnson: 6-4
vs Mugro: 6-3
vs Pouille: 6-2
vs Arquello: 6-4
vs Syd: 6-4
2014:
vs Ginepri: 6-0
vs Simon: 7-6
vs Pico: 6-1
vs Ramos: 7-6
vs Gabashvilli: 6-4
vs DGT: 6-3
^^^ should read “first set in first match in tournaments”
So that’s one set lost in 21 first sets in first rounds on clay (when he’s not at his best LOL).
That’s the clay GOAT for ya!
^^ should read “first set in first match in tournaments”
Those stats are incredible. Nadal’s dominance on clay has been one of the most prolific runs in sporting history. That being said, I don’t to put much stock in matches more than a season old though, and a LOT of those guys are good players but not dangerous players. Can Borna Coric ever beat a top 5 player in his current form? No, but Kohlschreiber could and Coric just beat him. My point is tennis is not transitive; Plenty of those guys are or were ranked around Edmund at 45 but did not have big offensive weapons. At this point honestly I’m torn between betting on Edmund to cover out of spite or listening to reason and taking Nadal in straights. My last memory of Nadal on a claycourt is his wrist not being strong enough to play it. If you don’t think age affects a player just look at Roger Federer who is playing some of the best tennis of his life right now and does not even want to enter clay events. I’m running on fumes on this argument though especially after listening to the tennis channel announcers gush about Nadal for 30 minutes straight.
I wouldn’t bet on Edmund just saying
Sure it affects them but you cannot generalize. Federer is smart to skip clay because you need more patience to construct points over longer rallies and as Rafa said this week, he can’t do that in 3-4 shot rallies.
Rafa would be smart to skip grass because he can’t bend as low anymore with his knees.
But these are EXCEPTIONS.
Do what you want but, although anything is possible, betting on Edmund to do anything against Rafa better come with fantastic odds but mate you’re throwing your money away like playing the lotto.
Please TENNIS, Rafa had his wrist issue well before the clay season in 2016( he was seen with a bandage on his left wrist during early 2016). The wrist issue wasn’t developed when he played on clay in 2016, more like accentuated the already existing problem since early 2016; he’s been playing on clay since young, didn’t have any wrist problem all these years.
Rafa’s wrist seems ok now, if not he won’t be playing so well even on the HCs. I doubt he’ll have the same problem this clay season.
Edmund’s favorite surface is clay though. I can see this being somewhat competitive but Rafa should still win in straights anyways. Rafa has a great shot at his tenth MC title for sure.
Kyle probably doesn’t believe he can beat Rafa on clay and will probably be overwhelmed. Even if he plays really well without any doubts, it’s still unlikely that the Brit scores the monumental upset.
Speaking of grass[hehe,sorry Ricky i know we just entered clay] but i can’t help but voiced my opinion on this matter…if Rog skip the whole clay season because of his knee,why not Rafa skip a ‘whole grass season’ to protect his knee as well?I mean,why risk a humiliating 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th round defeat..he’s not going to do well on grass anymore..why not sit out and rest and prepare for the NA HC swing?
So much for Ricky’s prediction for Kohls in the semis.
It wa his deep run last week that i didnt expect him to do much this week.
He’s not used to going deep in one tournament let alone two B2B.
Had to WD.
(above is the type of post you won’t hear from some new fan(s) only interested in diminishing Rafa LOL)
I add to My post AT 10:49 AM…
LL PHH replaces PK in MC.
Herbert will win.
#(InsideJokings)
LOL. perhaps Ricky will be nice enough to add Herbert’s name to the “Who will win…” list. So you could also vote for Herbert in the future 🙂
Thanks everyone for working this out with me. I started following tennis maybe two years ago and did not witness the unfathomably good Nadal and Federer in their prime often enough to be sure of them following setbacks caused by injury. To me once a player is injured they are generally never the same and I sort of expected Nadal to decline as his injuries should affect his mobility and strength and he the majority of his game is based around his physical ability. I think my main takeaway is that although 6.5 is an absurd amount of games for Edmund to be receiving in any match, it’s not worth the risk as an in-form Nadal can cover this.
Rafa’s comeback in 2013 after missing eight months convinced me of his abilities.
I mean I wouldn’t be surprised if he managed seven games but I’d want really good odds.
You mean you weren’t convinced of Rafa’s abilities before 2013?
I would assume that he means he wasn’t convinced of Rafa’s ability to come back so strongly after such a long injury lay-off. At the time, it was fair to be unsure of Rafa’s future given how difficult it is for any player to get back to their best form post-injury layoff, let alone an all-time great like Rafa… But he not only got back to his best- his arguably played BETTER than he ever had in many respects!
Mary, I knew he was great of course, but he continued to exceed my expectations, particularly in 2013.
To be off for so long and return to No. 1 against such a competitive field.
Kevin, why did you ask Ricky for my e-mail address BTW?
2013 was a great year for Rafans. I remember being worried at first that Rafa was playing hard court matches subjecting his knees to more damage. Worry soon turned to disbelief and then to euphoria! The rest of the season except for the shock of Wimbledon was like a dream come true! I remember the US Open. I will never forget that moment of pure joy when Rafa won!
Should Rafa skip the grass season? It all depends on his footwork.
Not necessarily. I was just making a point. No harm given the off time until hard court season starts.
Makes more sense for Fed to skip French to focus on grass because of how close they are.
A.Zverev crushing Feli ….5-0 opening set. Come on Feli, make is competitive in set 2 lol
must be really frustrating for him. Now he’s struggling to win his 1st game of the match