Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka will battle for the Roland Garros title on Sunday. Djokovic is going for the career Grand Slam, while Wawrinka aims for his second major trophy.
Novak Djokovic and Stan Wawrinka will be squaring off for the 21st time in their careers when they collide in the French Open final on Sunday afternoon.
Djokovic is dominating the head-to-head series 17-3, but that is not to say the matchup has been without drama. In fact, their last four Grand Slam meetings (and all of their completed slam showdowns that did not end in retirement) have resulted in five-setters. Djokovic won the most epic of all 1-6, 7-5, 6-4, 6-7(5), 12-10 in the 2013 Australian Open semifinals and he prevailed 2-6, 7-6(4), 3-6, 6-3, 6-4 later that season in the U.S. Open semis. Wawrinka got some revenge with a 2-6, 6-4, 6-2, 3-6, 9-7 upset at the 2014 Aussie Open before Djokovic returned the favor 7-6(1), 3-6, 6-4, 4-6, 6-0 earlier this year Down Under.
The world No. 1 is 5-1 lifetime against Wawrinka on clay and the only blemish came via first-set retirement at the 2006 Umag event. They have faced each other eight times since their last clash on the slow stuff, which came three years ago in Madrid (Djokovic got the job done 7-6(5), 6-4).
Although Wawrinka is a major champion who has always accounted himself well on red dirt, his appearance in the Roland Garros title match could not have been expected. The ninth-ranked Swiss had lost seven of his previous 15 matches leading up to this fortnight. Suddenly in swashbuckling form, Wawrinka has advanced with wins over Marsel Ilhan, Dusan Lajovic, Steve Johnson, Gilles Simon, Roger Federer, and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga–almost all of them in convincing fashion.
Whereas Wawrinka (and Tsonga, among others) benefited from a weak bottom half of the bracket, Djokovic put in the hard yards during a daunting trek through the top half. After disposing of Jarkko Nieminen, Gilles Muller, Thanasi Kokkinakis, and Richard Gasquet, the top-ranked Serb made quick 7-5, 6-3, 6-1 work of nine-time champion Rafael Nadal. Andy Murray then pushed Djokovic to five sets in a semifinal spread out over two days, but the favorite survived 6-3, 6-3, 5-7, 5-7, 6-1. He is now 41-2 for the season and has won 28 matches in a row.
As strong as Wawrinka is on clay, the underdog will struggle to hit through Djokovic’s borderline impenetrable defense on a relatively slow court. Djokovic did not have to spend too much energy in his continuation against Murray on Saturday–especially not physically–and the brief scare may actually serve as a wake-up call.
With Djokovic one step away from the career Grand Slam, there will be no stopping him now.
Pick: Djokovic in 4
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Crybaby will fail better.
Nole will win in less than five violating the Rafa 20 second rule at least two dozen times along the way like he did against Murray.
Calendar slam is happening.
Yes! Very true.
agree with the pick. should be djokovic in 4. he didn’t spend a lot of energy today against andy, his previous matches were 3 setters, so his tank should be reasonably full. andy has much more variety, while stan has power. all said, nole matches up nicely with power hitters and finally, he is on a mission for a missing slam.
Reblogged this on Tennis Abides.
Can’t wait to see the backhand exchanges in this one…Joker in 3.
Me too! No, i don’t think it will be this simple. Stan is solid on both service and return games.
VR are you on Twitter?
Yes , I am on twitter but I don’t really use it. Used it once for a very short period. I am assuming you use it regularly?
Mostly just follow but another VR favourited one of my posts to Robbie koenig.
I am going with Novak in four sets. I think Stan is playing well enough now to at least get a set off him.
hawkeye,
Do we want to know what you said to Robbie Koenig, per chance? 🙂
Stanimal in 5 is the pick.
#BeastMode
If Nole can choke away 2 sets against a clay scrub like Murray he will definitely choke as Stan hits the cover off the ball. Watch for the histrionics: mouthbreathing/dying , dramatic “injury” scene , contacts having clay blown in them/can’t see, stomach sickness, bird flu, SARS, etc.
Djoko in 4
Today’s final is a repeat of the 2013 scenario with a different cast. i.e. a mere formality.
Wawrinka will be desperate to prove he is not a one-trick pony so it will be more competitive but he will be helpless in the face of Novak’s will to achieve this ultimate prize.
Djokovic in 4 with a wobble in the 3rd set.
Mighty quiet round here 😉
Perhaps everybody has forgotten it’s the final and gone out for the day.
# ? ? ?
Novak took Federer out in straight sets in the AO SF and went on to win his first slam in 4 against Tsonga. Seven years and 8 slams later he is poised to make it 9, complete his Career Grand Slam and set the scene for the possibility of a Calendar Grand Slam.
#Serendipity
Djoker in 4. Don’t think STan will be a pushover though……he’s taken Djoker to 5 on what 4/5 occasions in slams now and clay is STan’s best surface.
yeah, thinking about it if he can take Djoker to 5 repeatedly and beat him on his favourite surface the AO then he could cause the upset here…..
but won’t
not this time at any rate
no probably not…..just saying it’s not necessarily the done deal that most people are saying….
Sigh. I see Murray took Djoker to 5 over 2 days. I guess if they had completed the match in one day then it would have been Djoker in 3. What was he doing, falling asleep??!
I have avoided all news to do with the match and only found out 10 minutes ago who was in the final. If Murray had won then the British press would have been declaring him the clay goat as he would have beaten Djoker who beat Rafa ergo he is the GOAT to end all GOATS. Thank God it didn’t happen….!
amy,
Murray finally started playing well late in the third set. The play was suspended at 3-3 in the fourth set. He was really going toe-to-toe with Novak. When they came back the next day Murray won the fourth set, pushing it to a fifth set. But then Murray was broken early and that was really it. The fifth set was not competitive.
But this is the first time in a long while that Murray has at least made a match of it. I think he’s going to take good things out of it and be ready for Wimby.
Oh my God. the british commies are already banging on about Nole and Murray….match of the decade &tc…have had to switch channels…
I’m watching on Eurosport but I’ve turned the volume right down to spare myself the hyperbole.
are you dreading Wimby as much as I am nadline?? because they will be going on and on and on about how fedal are toast again….Nole/Murray the GOAT rivalry…..Murray beating Rafa in Madrid and going 5 with Nole after Rafa could only go 3 ergo Murray is now Nole’s rival on clay now not Rafa…..
honestly, I bet you…..
It’s torture nowadays listening to the commies.
yeah I really can’t stand it. the only consolation I can think of coming up to wimby is that Castle is going to look like the idiot he is having gone on and on last year about how the big 4 was now a big 5 with Dimitrov as the new member…..oh really!!??
Guga there to hand over the trophy!! oh this get’s worse and worse…..!!
Ha Ha. I’m watching on Eurosport Player. No commentary at all. What bliss.
no commentary!! gonna have to sign up for it for Wimby….
Those shorts Stan is wearing are an aberration.
How can this be a RG final without Rafa? This is a joke. Can’t wait for normal service to resume in 2016.
C’mon Nole, get your maiden RG trophy so we can finally be rid of the endless will-he, won’t he pre RG palaver. Time for some peace pre RG so the King of Clay can be feted without undue interference.
Adje Nole!
Vamos Novak!
Wilander says Stan is better placed to beat Nole at RG than even Rafa. When you hear c**p like that you can understand why none of them should be taken seriously.
Wilander has always talked a load of garbage. And had his knife into Rafa.
yeah…I remember during the Rafa/Fed 2012 AO semi-final he started off really putting the boot into Rafa….saying straight out that how Rafa played ‘isn’t good enough anymore..’ he was eating very very humble pie by the end of the match and had started putting the boot quite openly into Fed long before the match ended.
During the 2010 RG final, M.Wilander rooted for Sod. Before the match, he predicted Sod to win.
yes, he’s a veritable oracle!!
rather an anti-oracle, what he prophesies does not come to pass!
the problem with Mats is that he’s spent so long worshiping at the shrine of Federer that the marshy vapours arising from it have addled his brain….
If that ball which Nole challenged hadn’t been called out by the umpire when in fact it was in (according to hawkeye) Nole would have been broken there.
It’s going to be his day….
Also this court is too slow for Stan to hit through with his power…on a faster court the scoreline would look different…
Yes, Stan was robbed.
Hawkeye was wrong.
#NotMe
pact with the Double
Stan got unlucky with that call in the last game of the set. Hawkeye showed his forehand clipped the line on that 30-15 point ..it would have been 5-5 because he reeled off the next three points.
Anyway, the strategy is clear.djokovic has decided not to be the aggressor on most occasions and let stan hit hard while djokovic tries to counter punch with three quarter returns with a lot of variation in pace and bounce.He is extracting errors by defending like a wall and absorbing the pace. The strategy is clever and he keeps the pressure on stan by stepping up the court on some occasions.
Stan must realize this is not a hard court or a grass court. Hitting through djokovic with raw power is not the best strategy. He should definitely use his power but should mix things up a little. Novak is so deep in the baseline so try creating some angles on the court or may be go for some drop shots!
Stan can win this set i think..the match has been close
I don’t think Stan has the drop shot in his arsenal.
2nd break point! He should break here
oh Stan!! he should have broken there! he finds the gaps then goes long!
Wow…two backhands missed on break points.
There you go again, stan over-attacking djokovic’s forehand ! On many important points, he has had forehands set up for him while standing in his backhand corner, and he goes inside-in ! I think he should use his inside out forehand more often because that shot also has angle! Anyway, crucial to just keep mixing things up.
He’s been using the inside in because it’s less predictable.
of all the Djoker mannerisms (and there are many of them) The two I find the most irritating are the affronted face pulls and sardonic smirks when he loses points
And the fake losing his ground when his opponent hits a winner. In fact, he has no redeeming features in my eyes, period.
Stan should have broken this set..has had way too many chances he’s blown…
Wawrinka has just not played well enough on break points.I guess he will learn and play more aggressively IF he gets another break shot. I pick stan to win this set
Not. Again. Stan. On. break. points.
Choking on break points! Three backhands sent long on brk pnts!
Stan is getting really frustrated now. I think Djoker is going to pinch this set although Stan should have won it.
Cant decide if Stan is upping his level, or Djoker’s is dropping.
Looking at the stats it’s a bit of both.
But may be more of the latter.
Yes!! Finally! Stan would have exploded if he didn’t win that one…….!
Great backhand DTL followed by forehand DTL mid game (or was it the other way round?!) more of that please….
Djoker is definitely NOT the flavour of the month with the Frenchies!
Was obvious to me when they favoured Rafa in last year’s final.
Official Djoker racket smash! was he warned? I have no commentary because my tv is now so allergic to it that ONLY on this channel there is no sound! extraordinary….
amy ( at 2:53 pm),
Yes, Djoko was warned when he smashed his racquet after losing the 2nd set.
I just got on here and just started watching! Was the crowd booing because Novak smashed his racket when Stan hit a winner to get the second set?
#Stanimal
I was wondering where stan’s backhand DTL had vanished and it appeared right when he needed it! Wow what a brilliant game by stan. He was too damn good! Much better player in set 2.
So i was right, stan wins set 2. He better make a solid start in set 3 and not let novak get an early break
if you can’t be with the swiss you love, love the little swiss you’re with
that goes for some of the RG crowd and for our resident fake
Nailed it.
Remember, when stan won the first set of their Oz open 4th rnd in 2013, people thought he won’t be able to sustain his level for 5 sets but he did! In 2014 AO, he went a step further nd beat novak against all odds!
This match, the dynamics , are very similar. Stan will make it extremely tough for novak. Novak will have to step up the aggression a little as stan has adapted to the serbian’s plan A
So at least we have a match with Stan taking the second set!
I never thought that I would be rooting for Stan. This may be the only occasion where it would be warranted.
I can’t believe I am actually watching this final without Rafa.
Nole played those last break points to perfection.
Extremely well played by Djokovic to save the second brk pnt!
Woww great hitting, another bp! And another bp saved! Novak’s first serve was misfiring so stan had a golden chance.
How big was this hold?
Snap VR!
I suspect Wilander gave a present of a ‘get out of jail’ card for this match 🙂
STan is just 1 in 8/9? on break points, Djoker 1 in 4.
H e should be breaking Djoker now as he is visibly rattled….
Stan’s got to take the 3rd set to stand any chance of winning.
Stan’s title to lose. Power kills all. Magnus has turned him into Sodetling 2.0
That’s why they’ve won so many slams together.
Fall better fedfan.
NBC ran a viewer poll asking if fed or Rafa would ever win another slam.
No
Yeah right! You wish!
of course they won’t…the GOATS should be put out to grass….!!!
Why is Stan hitting so few winners off his backhand today?????
Nole exceeded the 20 second Rafa rule on three points in hid last game.
Djoko’s racquet after the 2nd set:
https://twitter.com/philousports/status/607561458612760576
#Vamos Stan
Stan needs to keep up his level of play. His failure to convert break points is a huge problem. But I do think that he must win this set if he is going to win the match.
27 seconds to serve at 0-30′
YES!!! more great DTL shots from Stan – he is definitely outplaying Djoker now……
I never thought I’d say this but – come on Stan!
I had the thought that this is the time when the pressure would get to Novak. Stan doesn’t have any pressure. He’s not playing for the career slam. He wasn’t expected to be here. So he should be able to play more freely.
INCREDIBLE HITTING FROM STAN WAWRINKA!
His backhand down the line is well and truly back! Let’s see if novak can do anything about the stanimal onslaught!
A lot of nerves from both guys out there right now let’s be honest.
If Stan can’t consolidate here then gsm Nole
Stan is humiliating ‘the greatest returner of all time’.
is that called the #groat ?
Hahaha! The GROAT. Not a fan of either but Vamos #stanimal
imagine if Stan had not lost that break in the first and eked out a first set win prior to the second set win…
#pact
Stan is over hitting the ball at times. He’s so hyped up.
He really has to hold here and not give back the break!
Is Djoker going down?? looks like it….
Fingers crossed, but still two more sets to go.
Wait a minute? Isn’t Novak the guy who can walk on water? Haven’t we had to listen to endless adjectives describing his greatness?
Doesn’t Stan know that he is supposed to lose to the anointed one?
Stan cannot afford a letdown. He has to play the match of his life. He’s got the crowd behind him for sure!
Come on Stan! You can do this!
#BeastMode
All of a sudden I think it’s a great match.
SET STAN!!! Djoker’s body language has gone very negative. This is on Stan’s racquet now.
NEVER thought I would be cheering for Stan after AO last year..NEVER!!!!
Me too but he’s the lesser of two evils today.
Me three. But here I am rooting for Stan in the clown pants.
Stan up two sets to one! Novak does seem down, but Stan cannot let up. Novak is not going to go down without a fight.
But Novak has all the pressure, the crowd is behind Stan all the way.
The commentators on the network seem a bit shellshocked! Wasn’t this supposed to be Novak’s year? Once he beat Rafa, didn’t many pundits give him the trophy before he earned it?
It’s beyond ironic that it’s this Swiss who is in the final! But this is the Swiss who has the game to beat Novak..
Stan cannot let up!
Nole going off the boil in RG final again!
He’s never gone off the boil at RG he’s been outplayed.
^ this
and, what nadline wrote here is not biased just because we are rafans
That’s why I wanted Stan to beat Tsonga because he would have just rolled over.
LOL! Ted Robinson is asking JMac and Mary Carillo – is there such a thing as champion’s arrogance? That a player doesn’t have to change his tactics?
I am about to roll on the floor after hearing that! Champion’s arrogance! Love it! Except Novak isn’t the champion here – not yet!
Next thing probably Nole is going to do:
Write an application to the ITF for banning Swiss players from tour!!
Has Novak gotten even one time violation warning yet?
Obligatory chucking away of serve from Stan….sigh….!!
As Kroenig would say: jaw-dropping stuff.
Have to go out to drinks party. Will take my computer with me and hope to watch bits from time to time. Never expected this to be a cliff-hanger or wouldn’t have accepted.
Chapeau to all those who anticipated a 5-setter. But you never know, Stan might do it in four sets. Bet not many people put money on that!!!!
Why does Stan keep missing his backhand DTL!!!
If it does go 5 will STANIMAL have more STAMINA!! Nole played 3 sets yesterday…..
Nole will win but at least it’s been fun.
Nole will feed a gluten free bakery product to Stan in the fifth set.
#NID
As usual Stan relaxed in 4th and Djoko pounced. In 5th Djoko is the clear favourite
Haha.i know you guys will say stuff like this.It is natural. Just do not forget their matches at the AO! Stan is NOT going to wilt.
The pressure will be higher on Djokovic if this goes to a fifth set. The match has not been too long so far so stan should be okay physically esp given how favorable his scheduling has been.
You can break here, stan…
YES!!!!!
That last rally was excellent.
#Vamos Stan
Novak was being outplayed. He has played at a high level but stan’s brand of tennis can do so much damage on the hard court of AO so why not on the clay courts of FO!
Djokovic, has changed his tactics for this set.He is trying to take time away from stan by taking the ball earlier.
stan playing a stellar game here and has break points! WOW , stan was sooo solid! There was so nuch wind blowing in that rally and it was novak who missed!
Can stan can this done in 4? Definitely Possible!
POINT OF THE MATCH
Huge seventh game here.
Djokovic looks like he’s struggling to breathe. Can’t be the heat, only 22/72 degrees.
This is really something! Novak is throwing everything but the kitchen sink at Stan and the ball just keeps coming back! Inspired tennis from Stan!
I am getting kind of fed up with the commentators acting like this is somehow Novak’s turn and why is Stan trying to kill the party? They still seem to be in shock.
I don’t know how Stan is doing it. He got the break back and has had the answers, Unbelievable!
Come on Stan! You can do this!
I think Stan needs to try to close this out in the fourth. Keep up the pressure!
HUGE BP HOLDS FROM NOVAK THERE
Hats off to the world no.1 ! The way he saves those break pnts.phenomenal . BIG finish! Wow… stan should keep his faith alive.He is playing well enough to win . Novak won’t be able to reproduce this brilliance consistently so just got to keep asking the questions
And there’s the turning point of the match.
4-3 Djokovic. No looking back for him now.
Fifth set will be but a Squibb formality.
Nole to break here and will serve out the fourth.
Nope!
CLUTCH from Stan – he ain’t going nowhere baby!!!!
Massive hold from love 40 down from Stan.
What a match!
You spoke too soon! This could turn out to be the key for the match!
Gutsy play from Stan to fight off 0-40 and hold his serve! He has to know that he needs to get this done in four!
Some-bot-y is quiet.
#SilverLinings
Break point to serve out the championship
Huge nerve fRom Nole
Stan backhand firing
YES!!!!!! Ye of little faith!!!!!! Can Stan hold his nerve and serve it out!!!
SPEECHLESS!
OMG STAN BEAUTY OF A BACKHAND
WOW!! Now can Stan keep it together and serve it out for the win?
He has been so strong and truly has outplayed Novak! Come on Stan, four more points!
You can do this!!!!
They just said 58 winners for Stan!
Ok Stan. This is it. Don’t choke. #vamosporlaprimera
Stan predictably tight
Stan tight but wow Nole
Yessssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!
#Vamos Stan
ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is Djoker ever going to win this slam now??? massive blow for him!!
Stan the Man. I called it. Beast mode. Congrats to Magnus too.
It’s official, from now on Stan is my 2nd favourite player.
Stan The GREAT, congratulations from Rafa Fan
Lovely to see world number 1 being outplayed, Fed is indeed in a very tough bracket in RG 2015
He hahahahaha ??
More like if novak will end up with another one slam year despite being dominant
Yessss! No career grand slam, no calendar slam. And the two who beat Rafa at RG both lost in the final.
That is Rafa’s curse! If you beat him, you lose the title!
Hehehe. I can hear Rafa cackling somewhere in Germany.
STAN DID IT!!!!
What a match!
Okay Stan, all is forgiven!
Four sets!
After listening to the stupid commentators all week long! HAH!!
This is amazing!
Wasn’t Djoko oddsmakers’ heavy favorite?
😆
I hope Stan bumps a car outside Djoker’s hotel tonight. Can’t express my happiness. I have often wanted to say Djoko wins a lot of matches because of the opponent’s bad play but didn’t want to sound bitter. Stan took the match to him and look what happened?
So the only 2 people who have beaten Rafa at RG have ended up not winning the title.
Now there are at least two players that will make it hard for Nole to just amass slams left and right – he will have to earn each one: rafa if he gets ‘back’, Andy once in a while, and the new double-slam winner.
Congrats to Stan, deserved this one!
(Not so much the back-injury win 🙂
Tomorrow’s headline: “Novi Sad”.
You can have that one for free. But in all honesty, perhaps it’s just as well that Novak didn’t win. At least we won’ that’ve a repeat of the Melbourne victory speech in which he extols the virtues of married life. That could have been awkward.
Junior and senior titles for Stan, who eliminated the holders of 25 slams. Brilliant stuff.
Is this another year in which Novak, deflated, ends up on just the one slam title with WTF thrown in? Only tiiiiiiiiime… will tell…
Maybe now the commentators and everyone else will just shut up about Novak!
No RG!
No calendar slam!
Novak is mortal after all!
This is really one of those moments that is very satisfying.
I kept saying here that Novak hadn’t won it yet when he beat Rafa!
Antijinxings work again!
Wow Stan is definitely the real deal.
Huge class from Nole at the net. I feel for him.
Calendar slam off! Not for Serena though.
I guess wilander thinks Stan is the greatest clay player now.
Fedole fans boo hoo. Poor filter and tennis X.
Stan. Fail best. So well done. Great match.
Well stone the crows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I speculated earlier in the week the Djoker might become the D;jocker with so much at stake but I was assuming it would be against Rafa.
Chapeau to Stan. Players and fans will start having to pay more respect to him now.
Gloating is petty but I’m loving Novak’s face….
Sorry, but I don’t feel anything for Novak. Yes, he was gracious at the net with Stan, but that does not make up for his overall boorish behavior and the sense of entitlement that is all too evident.
Tough luck, Novak! There’s always next year!
Wilander – you have egg all over your face! You boob!
I guess this means that Novak is not the King of Clay after all!
Of course, Rafa fans knew that all along! Our man is and always will be!
Long live the King of Clay!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGBFEvOWYAEMDKO.jpg
Stan wins a slam for real, not against an injured opponent! kudos!!
Hey Mats what happened to the clay-goat!
This will be the hardest runner up speech Novak has ever had to make.
At least Nole won’t steal Stan’s moment by crying like a little Swiss girl.
Stan needs to get divorced more often. I’m speechless. Stan the Man. Wow. Just wow.
Haha….so stan has done it! He has destroyed djokovic!
I am NOT AT ALL surprised at the outcome, honestly. And i kept telling you guys stan won’t go away !
I don’t like djokovic but i feel a bit sorry for him. He finally beat rafa at RG but still the RG crown eludes him. Rafa was far from his best at RG this year but novak could not handle stan who owns the most destructive baseline game in tennis.
Massive respect for stan the man! Such a worthy winner
I am gloating. I make no apologies. After what we have had to listen to throughout this tournament! The assumption that this was Novak’s to win after he beat Rafa.
I have had it up to here with the Novak worship! Enough!
^^^^this. I’m just happy we won’t be hearing about a calendar slam for Nole at Wimbles. No one dethrones Rafa and wins this! So happy about that.
You’re not the only one. No career slam and no calendar slam for Nole. Hehehehehe!
Don’t you just love Guga. What’s more he gets even more attractive as he gets older!
I LOVE GUGA. I was so sad he retired due to injuries.
Wow! Guga’s suit! he looks stylish no?
Guga 4 Rafa!
Nole must hate that runner’s up plate! it has eat humble pie written all over it!!
Feel sorry for him actually……
Don’t tell me he’s going to do a Federer………………………………
Pure class from Djokovic in losing today.
yes, he is very gracious in defeat….
Federer wasn’t smiling. If he does it will be due to the warmth from the crowd, not from a sense of entitlement.
tennistweets @tennistweets 11m11 minutes ago
History repeating itself: last time a player beat Rafael Nadal in the French Open quarters, they ended up losing to a Swiss in the final
that was a 4th round but yes, same pattern …haha
I’ve gained more respect for both guys out there today let’s be honest.
Kind of fitting that Magnus Norman lost to Guga in the final and now here is Guga giving the trophy to his student. Full circle.
O.M.G……..
Just switched on the TV to see……………..Wawa giving……………. a victory speech??????????
Magnus Norman has transformed Stan’s game these last 2 years. And he is older than Rafa so that shows change is possible. Take heed Rafa!! look what a change in coach and thinking can do…..!
Juan José Vallejo @jjvallejoa 33m33 minutes ago
This is 2011 all over again…just with a different Swiss.
sorry,
but I don’t agree with you there.
Last year, he won the 1st set and became passive after that, ended up losing.
Same has been the story today also!
pfffffffff!
Nole can be the favourite every year and not win the title. Suits me.
Nole should have listened what Rafa said: It may be the dream quarterfinal but it’s the quarterfinal ONLY…Novak’ s fans were so arrogant and dismissive of Rafa…this is what they get in return…I feel sorry for Novak…what a disappointment for him…
Success defined and why Novak didn’t cry. Rafa knotted this too.
http://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/607589083758632961
#Respect
Knows
(Stupid spell checker)
See tennis is so much better without Fedal in finals. This was the greatest FO final in years.
#BeastMode
No I think the RG 2011 final was excellent too (first 3 sets were great) before Fed faded in 4th
2013 semi was virtually a final and it is the greatest clay court match of all time.
Greatest clay court match of all time?
I would give it to Rome 2005 and 2006 Finals.
Best matches to be ever played on clay
2013 semi-final greatest ever for me…..the shots hit by both players in the fifth set were unbelievable. especially Rafa when fighting down a break, his hitting under pressure was astonishing. makes me so sad to think about the comparison between the real rafa and where he is at now….
2013 SF, only the 5th set featured great tennis.
If you can watch Rome 2005 F or Rome 2006 final, the quality of shot making was absolutely ridiculous with much more depth in variety of the rallies!
Gutted for Nole!
Happy for Stan!
Wawa is an absolute beast!!
Kudos to NOLE! The most gracious loser on tour.
Guess, this title will give more recognition to his 1st title as well.
When he’s ON, it’s difficult for even the best guys to handle him!
And after all the speculations, a guy from the bottom half of the draw wins the title!
The 2013 RG semifinal is the greatest match on clay. Anyone who doubts it needs to just watch it again! Rafa serving for the match in the fourth set only to end up losing it in a tb. Then Novak up a break in that fifth set, until Rafa went into God mode to win!
There was some insane tennis in that fifth set!
The reason I do not feel bad for Novak, is I can only imagine what he would have been like had he won! This will keep him humble and remind him that it’s not over until the last point. Beating Rafa did not guarantee him the win!
The other thing that I take out of this, is that no matter what rigging there is, what kind of chicanery there is supposed to be by TPTB, this is what it’s all about! Nothing helped Fed to get to the final and win. As long as players can go out there and give it their all and just believe in themselves and fight, then anyone who tries to influence the outcome will be doomed. No one could have predicted this!
nny, doesn’t it make you feel sad to compare how rafa played that brilliant tennis then and how he is now? you couldn’t even tell that they were the same player……
RG 2013 semi is the greatest clay court match ! The quality was great and the 5th set was out of this world. Do not forget what was at stake! it was a vitual RG final
Please, pleased can someone find Novak’s Dad’s face after THIS?
He triumphantly said, “Novak is going to win, win, win RG” after he beat Rafa at Monte Carlo.
Bye Tenngranders for now, I am trotting off to the pity party at tennis-x blog!!
I love you Wawa!!!!
See you there ritb.
amy,
Yes, it does make me feel sad! I posted here some days ago about how the tennis channel replayed last year’s RG final. I recorded it because it was on very late at night. But I happened to be up and tuned in to see the last set and a half. It almost brought tears to my eyes. To see the quality of tennis from Rafa in that match! When I saw that, well that’s when it really hit me just how different Rafa is now.There is no denying it.
I want that Rafa back!
yes nny, I feel tearful. On Friday I was remembering that it was that Friday last year when rafa slaughtered Murray with his forehand.
there is no resemblance whatsoever between that extraordinary shot as it was then and how it is now…it’s a ghost of itself, a shadow….
PS it’s all mental and why I mentioned Norman and what that can bring…
Couldn’t have put it any better…
http://twitter.com/jon_wertheim/status/607589071062319104
Good call from Wilander, eh? Now Stan not only goes two-for-two in slam finals, he defeated the current world #1 each time without being required to go the distance. Vintage stuff!
Luthi and Pierre in the stands and a BIG party for both, the French and the Swiss. Long live the single-hander. I’d love it if this encourages more kids to use the one-handed BH. Djokovic definitely struggles against court craft even now though he’s incorporated a fair bit of it in his own game.
1HBH is in style
More questions (question-marks) about Djoker in slams again??
Pressure got to him today….
2008 Rafa could not have beaten Stan the Beast today. Too much power.
What does that have to do with anything? Ancient history!
jealousy
rafa’s level in that entire tournament and against your hero in the final still stings, it seems
10-23 is what it has to do with it.
Sad fedfan in denial.
Hilarious!!!
http://twitter.com/rolandgarros/status/607596088695128065
I feel bad for Nole as he deserves it but the joy of shutting his horrendous arrogant fans on message boards who were crowing to no end is bigger. Hopefully they will shut their trap. They need to learn humility.
Not sure if I feel bad for Novak, but for sure Im happy for some humility for his fans!!
But the curse surely continues at RG, if you beat Rafa, u simply wont win it!!!! Vamos!!!
not sure if 2 is enough for a curse
Stan is the man who is stopping the Big 3 from something they want dearly
He stopped Rafa double career slam
Novaks career slam
Feds 1st Montecarlo
He is becoming a big spoiler. He is fearless.
that’s a bit strong Sanju! yes, he beat nole fair and square today….but there is a huge question mark over the AO win…..I don’t believe he would have won that without the rafa injury……he’s pushed nole on numerous occasions afterall, the match up with rafa is very one-sided towards rafa…..
The way Stan was playing in that AO, he would have won even if Rafa was not injured.
His win today is a proof of that.
come on abhirf! you can’t make that extrapolation from one set….no-one knows the outcome of a match if a player gets injured early anyway!.
his win today is totally different……he and nole have played many long matches and it’s not the same beast at all….
amy,
I absolutely agree with you! It’s just wrong to try to read that into this match. Two entirely different situations. At least Novak wasn’t crippled with an acute back injury.
I don’t even know why anyone would bring it up again. I am really over hearing someone trying to rationalize Stan’s win over Rafa at the 2014 AO.
Stan was playing pretty high level tennis, wasn’t bogged down by the occassion.
Would have won fairly in my opinion.
Of course, you are not entitled to your own opinions!
OOPS.. Typo
Meant: Of course, you are entitled to your own opinions!
I mean we will never know. He is giving proof he loves the big stage .
Davis Cup final, MC final, RG final.
Yes we will not know about AO and there will always be an *, however I think we cannot say for sure either way in whose favor it would have ended.
@RogerMasha Llodra:”I texted Roger and asked him’why r u not @ yr friend’s match?’ Roger replied “no,Ik he’ll win, I’m watching FC Basel”
Stan’s win today has nothing to do with the 2014 AO! No way! Don’t read more into this than is necessary! Rafa couldn’t play in that match. Stan would have made it competitive, but with the double career slam on the line there is no way Rafa would have lost!
I really dislike when people take a win and then read more into it. His win here is legitimate. The win at the AO was against a player who was badly hampered. Let’s keep it real!
“Stan would have made it competitive, but with the double career slam on the line there is no way Rafa would have lost!”
Just like you, we can have our opinions too, no?
And BTW, I was not the one who brought up the matter here.
But fact is in the annals of history, he will be the one who will be recorded with distinction of stopping Rafa.
Gaël Monflu @2ndServeHack
So I guess the toughest thing in tennis isn’t beating Nadal at Roland Garros. It’s beating him there *then* winning the title.
Greg Sharko @SharkoTennis 18m18 minutes ago Florida, USA
.@stanwawrinka break pts saved in last 3 wins @rolandgarros:
4 of 4 vs Federer
16 of 17 vs Tsonga
8 of 10 vs Djokovic
That stat really says it all. It shows how important it is to save those breaks! That is tremendous!
Another pattern: Nadal would have had to go through Djoker, Murray and Stan to win, and they are in that precise order the three players who defeated him at this year’s clay Masters. But he (and the younger Djokovic) can take heart in the knowledge that this year’s champion is more than a year older than him.
As I thought, Nadal was not going to lift this title if he bumped into Novak. To be honest, I was not especially surprised to see the Spaniard mentally checking out in their third set. But let us not forget that he had back surgery late last year. It took Murray a while to come back from that – he even exited the world’s Top 10 for six weeks after the 2014 US Open – so maybe Nadal will turn his season on its head by having a better second half than first, as clearly hasn’t been the case in years gone by.
forsureheisthefavouritecommanoquestionmark says:
June 7, 2015 at 5:38 pm,
—I was not especially surprised to see the Spaniard mentally checking out in their third set. But let us not forget that he had back surgery late last year.—
====================================
Rafa didn’t have a back surgery. The doctors derived stem cells from his body and later injected them into his damaged area. The procedure is not called ‘a surgery’.
So, not a big deal then? Wonder how best to explain his dismal season to date, so. Lack of speed leading to a failure to control the shot, to these untrained eyes. But I know others have already pooh-poohed that. Perhaps we’ll never know, eh?
More patterns: Stan defeats the world #2 before taking out the #1 to win both of his slams. He and Murray now hold the career slam between them. Murray and Djokovic lost their only clay matches this weekend (Djoker’s first clay and slam defeat as a married father, Andy ditto as a husband a) but, no matter that Wawrinka is (getting) divorced and has lost plenty else this season, it’s his position they all want to be in right now.
Before the Final, I was wondering how Nole’s rest of the season will pan out after this match.
In the event of a win, a big emotional let down could have followed.
In the event of a loss, could be gutted for doing all the hard work and yet ending up short that too could lead to all those self doubts creeping up again and another emotional let down!
So now that he has lost, I’m still left wondering!
He is vulnerable at Wimbledon. Fed and Andy can take it to him there. Before people piunce at me, yes I think Rafa will not win Wimby 15 and is not even a contender given his issues of late. But I hope he surprises.
Forget Andy and Fed. If Wawa could turn up at Wimby like the last year, he could be the one hoisting that trophy at the end of the tournament (provided he doesn’t have to play on 3 consecutive days).
But yes, Nole will face much more adversities on Grass.
Any servebot giant can have their day and play spoiler on grass.
Djokovic: “It’s a loss and of course it hurts. I was a set up & playing as I intended but this is sport & you have to accept the loss.”
“There are two players who want to win this trophy, not just me. Every single player wants to win this as much as I do” #Djokovic #RG15
“I’m proud of the fight I put into this match but it wasn’t meant to be” #Djokovic #RG15
Roland Garros @rolandgarros 31m31 minutes ago
“He played some good, tactical tennis. All I can say is well done. He deserves it.” #Djokovic #RG15
On Magnus Norman, Wawrinka says he feels “amazing” and “lucky” to have him as coach. Made him believe he could beat the top players.
Well that’s what a coach is supposed to do. Norman has Stan believing that he can win against the top players. That’s an accomplishment!
Think what Norman has brought to Stan’s game these last 2 years. and Stan is older than rafa! It does show what a change in coach can bring to the table and I would like to see it with rafa (or adding a coach) It does show that these changes are possible even in later years….
amy,
I have to agree with you. Sometimes a change is exactly what is needed. A fresh perspective, a new approach, a different way of thinking. Rafa doesn’t have to get rid of Uncle Toni. We know he won’t do that. But add someone to the team, for heaven’s sake! Stop the bleeding!
Stan is a different player since Magnus Norman became his coach. He always had the game, but did not have the belief especially against the top players. He said as much in his post-match on court interview with PMac. He said that Norman gave him the belief that he could beat the top players.
Sometimes change is good! Are you listening Rafa?
I still remember, how he turned Soderling into a more consistent performer with just one weapon: A BIG FH.
what weapon do you think rafa needs??? a much more potent serve really would help!!
Serve, definitely.
More than that, an aggressive mindset would be more welcome (alike 2013 IW)
Abhi..he was more aaggressive at Montreal, Cincy and USO 2013 than IW. IW 2013 not that aggressive.
Montreal, maybe. OK he was.
Cincy and USO probably not. Only his serve was better. Facing almost no competition helped him.
Facing no competition? Cmon now u discrediting him
He beat Djoko to win his Montreal and USO 2013 titles, can it get tougher than that.
And he was super aggressive in USO 2013..watch the 1st and 4th sets of USO 2013 and the 2nd part of 3rd set.
He faced Djoko in Montreal, no.
I’m talking about Cincy and USO.
Only notable match during that time was his Final with Nole.
And, I’m not discrediting Rafa here, but Nole just didn’t turned up in that final, just like the Wimbledon Final earlier that year. Given how Rafa beat Nole at Montreal, I believe he would have turned up a notch to beat him, but didn’t need to as Djokovic didn’t showed up that day.
Nole did turn up for the US final!! he was back in his killer mode in the 3rd set before rafa saved those 3 break points to break his will..and rafa was clutch then…..incredible forehand winner, ace &tc…..
don’t you remember the 59 shot rally which nole needed to break rafa in the 2nd…both players hit countless winners off that one rally….
Yeah you know sanju, just like the weak competition Fed faced from 2003-07 (clay excepted 05 onwards of course).
What does Rafa need to add to his game? Confidence. Simple as that.
nny, yes I think I have written several times that change in itself is sometimes needed. rafa’s team which never ever changes really does have the feel of team stale….these things are organic like everything else yet there is no sense that the organism can move on and develop as a group….this worries me…..
abhirf,
That is just plain nonsense! You are trying to have it both ways! When Novak wins, then it’s because he outplayed Rafa or anyone else. But when Rafa wins against Novak, it’s because Novak didn’t show up? Please give me a break!
Amy already made some good points, so no need for me to repeat them. But you just seem to have blinders on.
Did I write anything about, Nole for RG 2013, or USO 2012 or Wimbledon 2012 or RG 2012?
I can’t remember if I have done so.
Selective pickings on your side.
Anyone who has seen tennis for past 5 years or so can make the assessment whether Nole actually showed up for those 2 finals at Wimbledon or USO (which he didn’t).
Just citing the truth here.
You are confusing truth with opinion.
Nothing new for a fedfan. They make the same mistake with GOAT talk.
just like your confused opinions! Sorry, truths!
BTW I have to confess that I like stan’s shorts!! for me that was a big part of being able to cheer for him….!
Reminded you of someone may be 🙂 Ting Ting.
who or what is Ting Ting???!!
Ting Ting meant wink wink :-)..
AMY, u cant be serious, i think it was a huge part of Nole’s loss today………hehehehehe!!!!
Nick McCarvel @NickMcCarvel 5m5 minutes ago
Stan says he wasn’t nervous until “15 minutes before we went on court. And I thought, ‘What the fuck is happening?'” Lots of laughter #RG15
Stan has arrived at the presser with his famous Shorts! What a guy! credits: Arnaud Cerutti
Embedded image permalink
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CG6uFoWWoAAnY8E.jpg
Haha..funny
Will Stan associate this great win with those shorts and start wearing them at all the tournaments…..!
Stan’s lucky shorts…..I see a craze, not to mention, slogan on its way….!
Roland Garros @rolandgarros 9m9 minutes ago
“I’m really happy to have won it. I’m sure he’s going to get it 1 day because he’s such a strong player”Stan on Novak
“He’s such a tough player to play…and he’s such a good friend. I hope he gets the title one day” #Wawrinka #RG15
“Apparently I’m the only one!” @stanwawrinka on THOSE shorts and who likes them #RG15
Ben Rothenberg @BenRothenberg 41m41 minutes ago Paris, Ile-de-France
Wawrinka only hit 11 backhand winners in the final, but seven of them came in the fourth set. #RG15
You go through emotions,” said Djokovic afterwards. “Of course I was more nervous than any other match. I knew that he’s extremely good player when you give him chance to manoeuvre and to dictate the play and to hit the ball. He was the better player in the second so he deserved to win that one, and the third and the fourth. I had some changes to really switch the momentum to my side. I probably could have played better in some moments, more aggressive. But he deserved it.”
Haven’t watched the rerun yet…………….
Guys, was Novak applauding any of Wawa’s winners in the 4th set? 🙂
I remember a thumbs up for one passing shot!
If my memory serves me right, a Novak thumbs up is sarcastic recognition, hand to racquet applause is “well done.”
So now it should be clear to everyone that Novak is not invincible! He was pushed to five sets by Murray and then comprehensively beaten by Stan today! I hope all those who were saying that novak made rafa look mediocre get it now..rafa was just far ,far from his best and it was about rafa and not novak. Sure, novak was playing fantastic tennis but the rafa of old would have taken care of him like always.
Everyone had handed the trophy to stan but I was insisted this would be a very tough match for Djokovic and that Stan has a solid chance too.
Stan has the most destructive baseline game on the tour. He has gotten mentally and physically very tough and huge credit to Magnus Norman !
Congratulations to Stan!
I think this was a bitter blow to Novak. He will enter Wimbledon with a totally different mindset.
vamosrafa,
huge blow to Novak and is going to make him wonder if he is ever going to win RG, maybe now he won’t…..
to be fair to him he did admit, I think, that that was not the real rafa out there……seeing rafa break him twice in a row when he was nowhere near his real game and having chances to take that set shows that the real rafa would have got it done. the hyperbole over Nole was just amazing and shows that a lot of people making these claims have their own axe to grind/underlying subtext.
who would have believed that stan was going to become such a problem for Novak…..! this could well happen again in another slam….
Amy,
a huge blow indeed. He must be so hurt. I bet he was already thinking about holding the trophy when he beat Rafa. Yes, he knew rafa was below par! idiots like Wilander will shut up now. Sigh.
Technically, stan will be much harder for novak on grass! I hope they pit stan against novak hehe. Novak won’t be able to defend from deep in the court on grass and he will be punished just like Del Potro’s forehand punished him in their 2013 wimby epic. Delpo had a soft spot (his backhand) and stan’s backhand is , well, a rocket launcher.
vamosrafa, I don’t begin to understand where Wilander is coming from (unless he is high as a kite without our realising….!) – he does enjoy dissing rafa and is scarcely the oracle in terms of his predictions! I don’t know why he does it……?
Novak could well be vulnerable at Wimby but I am not looking forward at all to wimby this year: every year regardless I believe that rafa can win, but this year I just cannot see him doing well – I really hope I am wrong and that he finally gets some luck and a draw which opens up for him…..some luck would help him so much!
I still feel he needs some more coaching help – look what Norman has done for Stan!
absolutely ! We have seen what magnus norman has done for Stan. What Lendl did for Murray! Rafa should seriously consider this. Keep Toni in your team rafa but add someone else! Even adding Becker to his team has worked very well for Novak in terms of evolving his game.
I understand your feelings regarding Wimby. It is only my love for tennis and watching rafa on court that I am waiting for Wimby but I admit I am not looking forward to watching wimby with the same passion and excitement. No way!
Wilander is a head case. I don’t know why he does that :s
vamosrafa,
who would you like to see rafa working with?
Cahill would be good..who else??
PS I absolutely hate the fact that he has to play that asshole Rosol…..there is a strong likelihood that he will lose….
The only kind of luck Rafa needs in a draw is random luck. Unfortunately, for him, the draw is not random.
If Fed thought and admitted after the 4th round that he has a chance here once he saw the draw , no harm if Novak felt the same after he beat Rafa 😉
vamosrafa,
I agree that Rafa was not anywhere near his real self in that match. That can make people think that Novak was in God mode, but that was not the case. He did not have to be, just like Murray did not have to be in the Madrid final. Rafa just did not compete in that last set. He wasn’t himself. This was always going to be Novak’s best chance to beat Rafa, given his poor form this year and ups and downs.
However, we saw in the subsequent matches with Murray and especially with Stan, that Novak is not invincible! He can be beaten!
amy,
I am with you in not looking forward to Wimby this year. I just don’t see Rafa turning it around without some extra help. It’s not a bad thing to add another person to your team. It’s not reflection on Uncle Toni. If Rafa could figure it out on his own, then he would have done so. He would never have suffered such a humiliating defeat at RG if he could have found a way out of it.
nny, really wish he was not playing Rosol first up in Stuttgart! I fear he will lose to him and that is not a great harbinger for Wimby……
I really cannot stand Rosol and his off the wall mannerisms….!
NNY, I recall you being not too optimistic about rafa’s chances this year as you were able to see that rafa was not at his usual level and that he will not have enough to face novak. Your assessment of rafa’s game is usually very accurate and it proved again. He was very vulnerable against Novak!
As you said, losing to stan in 4 and being pushed by andy to 5 sets shows novak is far from invincible!
Wimbledon will be a tough slam for Novak. We have no idea about his emotional state but I guess his confidence took a significant blow today.
So glad Novak lost. Nothing against him, just his nasty fans and the fawning pundits who had already anointed him the best thing since sliced bread.
amy,
Yes! Rosol is so arrogant. That is not the match I would want for Rafa in Stuttgart!
I agree about Rosol’s behavior on the court. One would think he had done something other than beat Rafa once! He has not been able to back that up at all.
+1
Case in point, Amy is wondering why Willander is so quick to say was now a better clay player than Rafa. It’s because Rafa proves that Federer is not their beloved GOAT.
So, now Stan is the clay master?! And he is even considered favorite for Wimby?! And all of that because he beats Djoko today? That is just ridiculous…I must laugh at it…
I said a while ago Novak was lucky to win matches this year that he was supposed to lose. He did not play that well at all. If Rafa had belief in that first set he could have won it after coming back from huge deficit..Murray being the mental midget as he is lost the fifth set after having momentum and wining the fourth with style…and Novak let it all happen…Wawa played very well today but we all know he has always been troublesome for Novak…and to say that Stan would have beaten Rafa even if Rafa was not injured in the AO final is just plain stupid…I suggest you all refresh your memory and remember that Rafa even with pain and unable to move took a set from Wawa in that match..
Yes! Well said! Now everyone is rushing to get on the Stan bandwagon. It’s kind of comical in a way. Sure, it’s a great achievement for him to get the win over Novak, but he always had the game to trouble him. After all, it’s not the first time he’s beaten him at a slam. Just the first time at RG on clay!
Stan is NOT the favorite at Wimby! Novak will still be in the mix, Andy is definitely going to be a contender and even Fed. They are not going anywhere.
Bringing up that AO final really got to me. This match has absolutely nothing to do with what happened at the AO!
@natashao,
As far as I can remember, it was his injury that managed him to get a set in the 1st place by throwing off Stan from his game.
Haha…sure…poor Stan was feeling sorry for Rafa and handed a set to him…please, don’t even go there…Rafa would have beaten him…that was Stan’s first GS final and would have choked…and Stan lost a set because he was an arrogant idiot who thought Rafa would be easy to beat when injured…crybaby is nothing but that…
Rafa would have destroyed Wawrinka. But Wawrinka definitely earned this one.
Looks like you didn’t see what happened in that 3rd set.
Anyways, What exactly proves that Rafa would have destroyed Stan in that final?
There’s no such evidence.
As for Stan choking, he didn’t feel the nerves from the outset. Hard to buy in that argument.
You can put a question mark if you would like to, but the case is 50-50 in my opinion. The way Stan was playing in that tournament, he would have given Rafa a run for his money even if Rafa was fully healthy. He earned that title as much as this one.
A good comment. Guess what All Rafa fans and Fed fans are together on atpworldtour.com and berating Novak fans..all because they ran down Fed and Rafa all this year and hurled insults, abuses
Philip Wybenga · Top Commenter · Substitute Teacher at Sweetwater Union High School District
A lot of poor sports were jeering Nadal’s defeat and putting down Federer for not reaching the final after his “cupcake” draw. Well, this is what happens you guarantee victories. There’s egg on your face and a “cupcake” wins.
As for Novak, well fought, but you lost to the dominant player of the day. It happened to Federer as well, so this performance was not a fluke. You’ve got your health and consistency, so fear not Novak, you’re still a force. This is not the end.
As for Stan…wow. I’ve never seen a more bruising final. You played lights out and gritty. You stuck to the game plan. Your backhand was masterclass. It’s a shame you crushed my favorite Fed en route to this title, but I’m sure glad you backed it up with conviction. The world respects your talent.
Now, i would like to respond to some talk about Stan beating the 2008 version of rafa or beating rafa at AO 2014 final.
These are such pointless exercises but if you really want to analyze, do so with some logic.Remember, novak’s baseline game, as good as it is, has a shortcoming: It lacks a little bit of power. What i mean to say is, novak does not have a huge weapon that can blow opponents away. Sure, his backhand is currently the best in the game and he can do SO MUCH damage with his backhand. It is the best shot to maneuver opponents but he does not have the fire power of the highest level to counter stan’s ruthless aggression.
Rafa, on the other hand, has his massive forehand! That shot completely changes the dynamics. If rafa is playing at his best level, he has so much depth on his forehand and you cannot really attack those balls consistently. Rafa’s forehand DTL is the biggest shot too so he can penetrate when at his best . Rafa’s forehand also limits stan’s ability to hit backhands at will !
Novak’s game plays into stan’s hands in that it allows stan to implement his game. Whether stan is able to implement it consistently is another issue. Novak does try to hug the baseline to take time away and penetrate the court whenever he can but most of the rallies he was defending and trying to turn defense into offense or extracting errors.
Tsonga has a huge forehand as well and remember how he was able to push stan ?
So, rafa is the greatest on clay. He was able to impose his game on the field nine times. He is in a different league. His forehand, his movement, his passing shots (Big factor they are in big matches) , his defense and of course he owns the perfect skill set overall for clay courts.
I have nothing to add. I am just glad that you made an argument to refute this nonsensical rubbish about Stan beating Rafa even if he wasn’t injured!
I will never understand this hypothetical kind of argument! It’s like when Rafa won RG in 2011 beating Fed and many said – well, what if Novak had beaten Fed and gotten to the final? He surely would have beaten Rafa because he was beating him already!
The fact is that Novak wasn’t good enough to get to that 2011 RG final, so too bad on him. You play who gets there. This revisionist history that Stan was really good enough all along and the fact that Rafa had a crippling acute back injury didn’t matter, is a bunch of baloney!
Vamosrafa,
Well put but I’d like to add some points. It’s Stan who has the best BH and Rafa Had the best FH until he gets it back.
Shierling,
well, yes , rafa’s forehand is a different shot these days but of course I am talking about the rafa of old !
As far as stan having the best backhand, you mean he has the best backhand in the world? or do you mean he has the best single handed backhand on the tour? I guess you mean the former, but wanted to confirm before responding 🙂
will respond assuming you said stan has the best backhand in the world.
Well, right now, you can say stan has the most aggressive backhand on the tour. He has by far the best single handed backhand on the tour but overall, I would give the edge to Novak’s backhand. We often make the mistake of judging a shot’s ability by looking at how many winners are being struck and how offensive it is but let us not forget the other side: defending and counter punching! Novak’s backhand is a wall ! his open stance backhand has unlimited reach on the court and he gets unreal depth from anywhere. Besides, He can spread the court better than any other player. Stan has more power of course but stan’s backhand is one handed and he slices whenever being pushed around the corner. So novak wins the battle there by a big margin.
Not entirely a fair comparison anyway. One has the best single handed backhand and the other has the best double handed . However, the element of counter punching and defending by novak and even rafa, shows you another dimension!
What does open stance backhand mean?
sanju, google and see an image 😉 It is played with both shoulders facing the net! A closed stance backhand is a regular backhand played with one shoulder behind the other.
Nowadays, a fair number of players play open stance backhands when needed. Rafa used to be the master of playing it and his counter punching was/is unbelievably good. Novak took the open stance backhand to another level because of his flexibility and hence reach. Because of their open stance, rafa and novak are able to play backhands when majority would play slices. Murray does not play open stance backhands! Either closed stance or semi-closed. Same goes for ferrer.
It is the depth novak gets on his open stance backhands that is matchless.
Serendipity….
3 RG runner up dinner plates for Djokovic: one for Papa Djokovic, one for Mamam Djokovic and one for Djokovic Jr.
Next year, Djokovic will win one for Pierre the family poodle…………….
???? awesome ?
Now, the stupid-ass pundits HAVE to give Rafa deserved RESPECT.
Winning 9 titles at the most difficult Slam is no joke. Just ask Djokovic.
Coincidentally some poster elina on another site made this very same point!
#Snap
I don’t want Novak in the final next year! I see he has a 50% record at the slams. Not a very good record if you ask me. 18 finals 9 wins.
^^Hmmm, with that finals record, maybe it would not be such a bad idea if Novak made it to the final (again) next year, with Rafa on the other side of course!
Where did he win his ninth slam? Certainly not at Roland Garros. With you on the 50% success rate, but it’s 8 from 16, surely? Still stuck on eight with Connors, Lendl and Agassi for the moment.
Dating back to 1980, only Borg, Nadal and Federer have completed the Channel slam, and I don’t expect Wawrinka, now aged 30, to join that circle. And only Federer [2005, 06, 07] and Djokovic [2014] have bounced back from a finals loss at Roland Garros to win Wimbledon. Federer was 25 last time he did it. Can the Djoker repeat last year at age 28? There is a new dynamic this time out, with an extra week of prep before things get started at SW19. Maybe this will be the year that a first-time champion comes through?
Oops you are correct. 8 wins, so less than 50 percent winning record.
He is 8-8 in the finals.
AO: 5-0
RG: 0-3
Wimbledon: 2-1
USO: 1-4
The record outside AO is very poor.
Vamosrafa,
You know more about this than I do but for me a BH is a BH, whether SH or DH and when Stan’s is ticking I think it’s the best, a point finisher, but I might be leaving someone out. It is true that Nole does a lot of damage with his BH but or rarely is a coup de grace, as you were mentioning.
I think we’re looking at it from different perspectives. You talk about the incredible versatility the Novak’s BH brings into his game, and I agree completely. I’m talking about the sheer beauty of Stan’s BH, not connected to the rest of his game, just the shot. It’s the male version of J. Henin’s … I have to add the the SHBH is my favourite shot in tennis.
I understand your perspective 🙂
Stan’s backhand is such a beautiful shot to watch. Certainly the most entertaining backhand in the game right now. His ability to pull off winners out of nowhere is sensational. He makes other SHBH look so mediocre. My analysis, however, covered other aspects so that is why the overall edge goes to novak. the counter punching and defending element too strong for novak.
And remember there is only one shot that has consistently handled the spin on rafa’s forehand 🙂 …that shot is novak’s BH.
One more high profile loss and pundits will be making not so subtle suggestions Nole make changes to his coaching team………….
BB beware!
Lol. Send him back to the broom closet. Becker looked unrecognizable today.
I love me this @senorita over on the Evil blog:
@senorita Says:
Dan Says:
“I do feel bad for Djokovic, he has come so close so many times at Roland Garros,”
—————
Djokovic has only made the final 3 times including this one and he’s never taken the final to 5 sets so how has he come close ‘so many times’? When he took Rafa to 5 sets it was in a SF.
You have to take your hat of to Nadal for winning 9 out of 9 finals.
June 7th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
@senorita Says:
The 3 times Djoko has made it to the RG final he’s lost in 4 sets.
So much for “deserving” to win RG. No cadeau in pro sports……..
To everyone, who have recommended that Rafa should make changes to his team:
please send e-mail to Benito Perez-Barbadillo, Rafa’s public relations manager:
bpb@b1pr.com
(I have e-mailed him several times about different things)
🙂
To everyone, please don’t.
#Junkmail
To everyone:
Please don’t take hawkeye63 seriously!
Still caring, reading and responding to everything I say.
(Don’t forget to add that one about #Junkmail to your database. It’s a keeper.)
Hilarious!!!
When you replace in gussie’s post all references to hawkeye with reference to augusta… then it all fits.
including in the one above at 8:31 pm
#projectingYourOwnPatternsOnSomeoneElse
To everyone:
hawkeye63 and chloro have always cooperated well in the field of creating fantasy stories about other posters. 😆
You mean (as per 8:54 pm):
augusta08 has always been creating fantasy stories about other posters. :-).
And she does it systematically, automatically, in a manner reminiscent of a software program or an electronic robot.
June 8, 2015 at 1:33 am
Nothing has changed:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CG-B3p7W8AAz2x1.png
😆
Karma truly is a biatch……..
Novak used the Bernardes controversy to exact mind games on Nadal. Novak hurled cheap shots at Rafa’s position on the controversy, just like his fans have hurled cheap, ugly insults at Rafa all season long.
I hope he and his fans are choking mightily on crow.
So much hate for Nole for beating Rafa at RG.
Poor Guy!!
abhirf, tend to your own little garden of hate first and then get back to us.
#10-23
hate for whom??
#StillSearchingTheGarden
Look into your soul abhirf (or just read your earlier comments, that’s easier) 🙂
You are entitled to view it this way, of course, but consider:
we and the whole world knew prior to RG and prior to the rafole quarter final that this is the usual Rafa this spring and that he was going to be vulnerable any particular day, especially against the best player, given his low confidence etc this year
so no, not hate for Noel for beating rafa at rg
annoyance with over-fawning of nole, and for vitriol from nole fans, yes, and that is something entirely different
do you see, or not, abhirf, the enormous biases against rafa from almost all pundits, fans etc since 2005? and you do know that root cause, no?
^ this was NOT the usual Rafa this spring…
Better said than me chloro!
(but that is what I meant).
Props to Nole (from me anyways).
There’s always the 2 sides of a coin.
Yes, Rafa has been a victim but others also can’t stand the so called ‘overfawning’ for him too.
And guess what? All those pathetic Nole fans have suddenly gone quiet all of a sudden on the blogosphere!
Excuse me while I go look for Bodo………….
@abhirf, overfawning for Rafa? By whom?
fans maybe abhirf, but certainly not media, and the ATP/ITF itself.
The fawning over Federer and, by extension, Nole (in hope that he could be the GOAT saviour) has been beyond nauseating for over a decade now.
The commentators.
And Fans!
Who else?
@Hawkeye,
being Fans of a particular player robs us from that part.
It takes someone else not wearing those tainted glasses to see the things more objectively.
Thats why you can analyse Fed’s or Nole’s reception as being too much which might be true for Roger but definitely not Nole.
Novak hardly gets the accolades and recognition that he deserves from the media or fans!
^^To be specific, Novak predictably beat Rafa at RG in the quarters. I say predictably because everyone knows Rafa was not yet in form. And oh, that’s all Novak wanted isn’t it, to beat Rafa at RG? No wonder he lost today then, he had already achieved his objective!
What novak really would like since 2006 and Roger too since 2005 is to defeat rafa ONCE at RG when Rafa is in good form. Has not happened yet for either, nor for anyone else in 11 tournaments.
Of course this time it was not Novak’s fault that Rafa was entirely sub-par, nor was it Soderling’s fault that in ’09 Rafa was much too injured.
It was so pathetic reading some Nole fans’ comments, insisting Rafa was in form when he lost to Novak in the quarters and today crying that Novak was below par!
I was on the verge of posting that it would be so funny if Djoker passed Rafa to get to the RG final and still didn’t win the title but I didn’t not to jinx the loss. I feel so much better now. I didn’t listen to any of the sickly stuff about Djerk’s prowess prior to the match and listened to the early part of the match on mute.
#very happy, no?
I didn’t give Wawa a chance, honest.
It’s wasn’t that I thought Stan would beat him or even Muzz, just that it would be the ultimate anti climax to beat Rafa and still not win the title.
Rafa cautioned everybody before the quarterfinal match against Novak, he said everybody needed to pipe down, the winner of that match was not automatically the winner of the tournament. All the pro-Novak pundits ignored him and anointed Novak the inevitable winner of RG after he beat Rafa.
It was sickening listening to the commentators after Novak won the first set today, basically treating the match as an annoyance Novak had to endure before his coronation.
Miew!
Yep. It’s what made me switch my waffling allegiances to Stanford in this one.
Nole was true class and elegance in defeat. Something The Chosen One has rarely exhibited.
God, it’s KILLING me!!!!
Has always been the most gracious in defeat.
#NothingNew
I don’t think anyone here gave Stan a chance to win!
So how exactly can the so called experts and commentators be criticised for the same.
Experts and commentators are supposed to be professional and strike a balanced tone.
Ok.
So Experts need to be rational. And the rational pick was Nole.
Everyone mentioned what Stan needed to do and how he can make life difficult for Novak.
So, all the analysis and commentators were pretty balanced.
If describing one’s current achievements is not part of professionalism, I don’t know what is.
Wilander called Novak a better clay courter than Rafa ever was.
Just one example of many.
And then he called Stan the King of Clay.
Djokovic showed really good spirit out there! I don’t like Djokovic to be honest but I respect his abilities , his records and of course the way he shows respects for opponents . He was very gracious in defeat today and we know he usually is.
@vamosrafa,
could you analyse and tell what probably Nole could have done to win it.
What I can think are just these 2 points :
1. Hitting more of his inside out FH’s in the 2nd and 3rd set.
2. Pulled the trigger more on his shots rather than waiting for Wawa to make a mistake.
That is a good question abhirf!
I think when Stan is playing this well, he is a difficult match up for Novak. As I said earlier, one relative weakness in Nole’s game is that he does not have firepower of the highest level and that was exploited by stan today. If he had rafa’s or roger’s forehand, (just saying) he would have ended a lot of points quicker and could have pushed stan back more.
As you said, Nole should have pulled the trigger more often! definitely. The first set was misleading for him ! He came out with a strategy to let stan be the aggressor and decided to counterpunch (from very deep in the court) with three quarter returns with clever variation in bounce and pace. Stan made more errors in set 1 so that worked, In set 2, stan cleaned up the act and adapted ! He started creating some angles too and went closer to the baseline so Nole had to draw closer to the baseline!
Novak should have flattened out his groundstrokes a lot more! He was hesitant on his inside out forehands and he should have taken more initiatives.
The drop shots were often employed but the success rate was just okay. He won some points but on many occasions, when stan chased them, Nole was unable to come up with lobs! His lobs floated long in windy conditions and then he stopped playing drop shots.
Remember, stan has a one-handed backhand and pushing him wide elicits sliced backhand responses! Those have to be taken care of ! Otherwise, he can end the rally with one backhand.
I think Novak got the balance wrong a little today. He could have done some things better but Stan is a tough match up for him even though the head to head tells a different story.
This match seemed quite stark in contrast to the ones Nole had against Muzz or Rafa. In those matches Nole was always looking to close the points early. The same can’t be said about today.
The I/O FH looked his key to victory today. He didn’t employ it enough.
Nole always had trouble handling those sliced BH’s. He has improved upon that considerably, but, it’s definitely not his Forte!
Embarrassingly bitter blog on Novak’s defeat by Bodo:
http://espn.go.com/tennis/french15/story/_/id/13030038/french-open-why-there-was-little-novak-djokovic-do-stan-wawrinka
^ Really discredited Stan here.
Yes his power aided him, but his shot selection especially under pressure was quite immaculate.
I have not read the article but I can tell that stan is not being given enough credit! It’s ridiculous that people are just saying stan has power and that helped him get the win. Shot selection from stan was INCREDIBLY good at big moments! When you have a brick wall standing on the other side of the net, shot selection is so important. His backhand DTL appeared just at the right moments and caught novak off guard! Stan is not a mindless hitting machine. He is tactically smart too!
Also his serving today.
I remember, him serving those 1st serves at ~50% for the tournament but amped it up to 67% today when he needed it the most.
Many would have gone soul searching after losing that 1st set or being 3-0 down in that 4th set. But he didn’t gave in mentally.
absolutely! his serving was brilliant . His serving patterns were so versatile too! The display of mental toughness was spectacular.
If Bodo really wanted to just point out the power aspect, he could have chosen Cilic’s last years US open win.
Cilic was smoking almost every shot of his racquet like a bullet. Serves, returns, BH, FH and everything was landing in. It was like he was in a tranced state.
Poor Bodo! What’s he do to do after saying not too long ago that Rafa was just keeping the seat warm for Novak as the new King of Clay! LOL!
He was stupid to say something like that! Now he has to write something to cover his colossal blunder! Too funny! Made my day! 🙂
I did read that blog. Bodo is full of it! What gall to say that Stan just won by bludgeoning the ball! Stan did out hit Novak in this match, something you don’t normally see. But it was not just brute power that ruled the day. Stan played smart tennis.
Vamosrafa has given a great analysis of the dynamics of what went on in the match. I do agree that many times Novak was trying to be defensive and waiting for Stan to just hit a bad shot. They had some really long rallies and Stan went toe-to-toe with Novak, shot for shot. Novak was the one who ended up losing the point. I also thought that the drop shots were not that effective today. Stan seemed to handle them well. It was not just Stan’s power, it was the precision and accuracy of those groundstrokes. His serving was also a big part of this win. To see him fighting off all those break points, well that was something.
Bodo wouldn’t know anything about guts and heart. When Stan was down 0-40 at one point late in the match, he could have easily folded against the guy who has the best ROS in the game. But he stayed tough and battled hard to hold his serve.
Sorry Bodo, but that’s really sour grapes!
Novak himself said that Stan played a tactically smart match. Who is the fatso Bodo and what does he know? God it must be a pain for his family to have that scumbag around.
Bla bla artistry of Federer bla bla Nole’ superiority … The only adjective Rafa gets is grit. Nothing to see here. Moving along.
don’t forget beast.
You should have seen the insulting one he wrote about Rafa last week.
Bodo just another sour federazzi of the type I’m talkin’ ’bout.
Not sure who (besides JMac) abhirf is thinking of.
^Koenig for one – always going on and on about how tough Rafa is mentally.
Oh you mean the leader of the Rafa 20 second rule. He opined yesterday on Twitter that Rafa wouldn’t have near as many slams of the rule had always been enforced.
Some bias towards Rafa.
Not quite sure about Bodo.
He has turned pro-Rafa lately.
Bodo hasn’t had a good word for Rafa since 2013.
I think he had a bad bout of mono.
Can’t wait for Ricky’s faux Facebook chat ?
Bodo should be taught that Novak has never had the same power-defense combo as that possessed by rafa! Rafa can defend as good as anyone and because of his forehand, the element of power is much bigger! Nole just did not do enough to push Stan back and his weapons to do so are limited, unlike rafa’s. Fed has his monster forehand but his backhand is a liability.
Soderling had massive power off both wings and rafa destroyed him in the 2010 final because rafa was able to defend really well AND push soderling back with his own forehand!
Another thing, novak is not as good as big match player as rafa is. Novak is great in that regard but rafa is the best. When rafa is playing at his top level on the biggest stages, he is the hardest to beat.
Remember how novak almost lost to federer in last year’s wimby? Same reason,
Nole played his best on grass in that match.
But yes, he hasn’t been the one dominating Slam finals around like Federer or Rafa.
he played at a very high level and fed’s comeback in the fourth set was awesome too. However, he almost let the match slip away. He needs to improve his mentality a little in slam finals. His loss to Andy in the USO 2012 finals , after winning sets 3 and 4 , was also a bad one. Wimby 2013 is another example. There are exceptions for everyone but nole is a little far behind fedal, esp rafa, when it comes to handling the biggest of stages.
You can add USO 2013 also to that list.
Abhirf, USO 2013..umm…well, it was more about rafa than about novak actually. USO ’13 final was not a very high quality affair but there were good patches. Once again, the deciding factor was rafa’s forehand. I remember his forehand’s average speed in that final was 75 mph (as compared to 69 mph in their USO 2010 final!!) so you can imagine 🙂 Rafa’s forehand DTL once again wreaked havoc with novak’s baseline game. He did not have enough firepower to counter it when rafa was going full throttle. The only way he could have averted it was by using his stupenous backhand DTL and THAT shot was actually not firing well in the final (actually it was not firing too well in his 5-set SF win over stan either).
Plus, novak won set 2 and was up a break in the second and I remember almost everyone saying this is over. Novak will now finish rafa off in four as he is on control just like he usually is in their hard court matches,. But what followed was a display of unbreakable spirit from rafa! He was just not willing to lose…watch the highlights and see how strongly he came back. He lost a 54-stroke rally to novak but it was still rafa came out like a lion in the next game.
Once novak lost that third set, THEN his response in the fourth was not too good. Rafa just kept firing and novak was just not doing good enough.
Rafa played mind boggling in set 1 & 4. He was just excellent. Not sure why people cannot see it. He broke the spirit of Novak and he admitted it as much (or was it Vajda who admitted)
Set 2 Novak was better..Set 3 both were good till 4 all, it was up and down..but last 2 games Rafa just turned it up a notch. He celebrated set 3 win as if he won the match itself. I think he knew it then and there he is winning this.
Rafa played better tennis in that 2nd and 3rd set.
In the 1st set, was a very lazy start by Djokovic and after losing that 3rd set, he just gave up.
So yeah, Half-good Rafa and Half-bad Nole.
I remember that match well enough. Nothing great to warrant a re-watch. Would rather watch their 2010 final which was a way better match.
abhirf, remember that it was after this match that nole decided to hire becker and becker later revealed novak felt he was lagging behind nadal! So it was not about having a bad day or something. His best was just not able to match rafa’s best at that time
vamosrafa, I asked you yesterday who you thought rafa could add to his coaching team? just wondering what you thought on this one? I thought Cahill would do a great job…..
was just interested in your opinion…
would also like him to see a sports psychologist to help sort out the heebie jeebies….!
I think Nole is getting there with his FH.
It’s not as weak as it used to be.
With the improvements that Novak has made over the past 1.5 years, he may not have the most sought after clicks in his game, but definitely has the least amount of troughs.
That’s why he has become so consistent.
vamosrafa,
I just got on the site and know that this comment may embarrass you, but I have to say that your response @ 9:04 am was absolutely brilliant and on point! You broke down that 2013 USO final in fine fashion!
I wish there was something more to add, but you pretty much summed up how it went. Suffice to say that I agree with your analysis and not with abhirf’s on this one. 🙂
vamosrafa says: June 7, 2015 at 10:12 pm
+1
This is why I have never understood all the nonsense about Novak being the complete player blah, blah, blah. Of course Novak has a great game and in his pomp (2011) was a marvel to watch. The only reason he has appeared indestructible this year was because Rafa, the only guy who can truly and consistently take it to Novak, is still making his way back to form post injury.
and how old was roger then?
abhirf says: June 7, 2015 at 10:12 pm
Not quite sure about Bodo.
He has turned pro-Rafa lately.
^^You’re joking, right?
Not really.
apart from his recent Nadal’s clay court blues post, he has been quite appreciative of Rafa.
Or, I could better put it this way, he has toned down his criticism for Rafa.
Just like Tignor has turned from pro-Rafa to just a Rafa fan.
That was 2013.
But you are right about Tiggy.
https://twitter.com/TheSliceTweets/status/607659091788492800
At least Wawa got to win a slam on his best surface!
I am watching the tennis channel replay of the match and it’s interesting to hear the commentary there as opposed to the network, where we had Ted Robinson, JMac and Mary Carillo. What I appreciate on the tennis channel is hearing Paul Annacone’s commentary. He doesn’t get into too much of the hyperbole. He just makes his technical observations that are usually quite accurate.
They didn’t seem nearly as shell shocked as the crew on the network when the match was live. But I did notice a few things seeing it again. For one thing, Novak seemed to abandon the drop shot. It wasn’t effective against Stan. I also thought that Stan took Novak out of his game plan. He seemed to be dictating the points in many of the rallies. I think it was great to see him trading blows with Novak and then finally Novak would be the one to blink.
But the thing that really stands out watching it again, it how mentally strong Stan was throughout the match. He never gave up when he lost the first set and didn’t fold when he was down 0-3. To see him come back in that fourth set was really something.
I have an even better appreciation of Stan’s performance seeing it for a second time. That SHBH did a lot of damage! But the truth was that Stan was on fire with this groundstrokes throughout the match. Winning the third set put more pressure on Novak
to come from behind.
It’s just as satisfying seeing it again! 🙂
The icing was Feds comment that I posted before.
Llodra texted him why is he not at the stadium to support his friend? Rogers reply : I was sure he would win, hence I am watching FC Basel
Roger ; such disrespect to Novak, how can you not call the world No 1 the fav ? He also said post Rome that this seemed like 2011 all over again and reminded what happened in FO that year 🙂
And mind you, he said this to Llodra before Stan won 😉
lol…that tweet you posted his hilarious! fed actually had so much faith in stan?! haha…
I saw a picture in which fed was sitting in the football stadium but he had was live streaming the RG final on his mobile! lol
“He has probably the best one-handed backhand on the tour. No question, one of the best one-handed backhands that I have seen in tennis,” Djokovic said. “It’s very powerful and can create a lot of spin, a lot of rotation on the ball. He can hit it flat down the line. He can block the ball very well. He has a short slice, long slice. He has a lot of variety from that part of his baseline game.”
BTW both of Stans slam wins, he beat World No 2 in QF and World No 1 in final. What a coincidence.
Both the times he was the No.8 seed.
Any good extended highlights of the match? Pref in HD?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7y5yKySaSg
here you go sanju
Look who is here after ages. How are you buddy?
Are u okay or hyper ventilating with nerves after what Rafa did from past 12 months 🙂
I am still shaking my head at yesterday’s result. Djokovic is supposed to be at his imperious best, at least that is what the fawning pundits and fans told us. He is even better than 2011 they said. He is better than Rafa ever was on clay they opined. He is the new King of Clay, after he “destroyed” Rafa in the quarters the RG title was his, the calendar Slam was inevitable. As for vegas, the less said the better.
He then goes to someone who lost in the 1st round at RG last year, someone nobody gave any hope to him beating Novak.
The same pundits and Novak fans have been consistently saying Rafa is a former shadow of himself in the build-up to RG. So that was Rafa’s excuse: his level was nowhere near his imperious best. This is the truth. What was Novak’s excuse? Oh yes, he was simply outplayed by Stan. Novak, at his imperious best, was outplayed by Stan. This is the truth. No excuses.
Makes you wonder what all the hallabaloo was about in Rafa’s quarterfinal loss to Novak. That was to be expected, no? Novak simply beat an out of form Rafa. The loss said more about Rafa’s form than about Novak’s but you would not have thunk it listening to the fawning pundits and desperate Novak fans. This is what makes Novak’s loss all the more satisfying. His touted imperious form was a lie. Novak looked good because Rafa was bad.
People need to listen to Rafa more. During one of his pressers he said something to the effect that in sport, you cannot lie about your form. The truth about the real state of your game is always exposed on court: Not pundits and fans’ desires, not betting odds’ picks, not sentimental hogwash. The truth will out.
The truth came out yesterday.
You wont stop RITB, will you ? :-). You are having a field day gloating about Noles loss and not missing any opportunity to shout about it from the rooftops :-). I can almost see you jumping around in happiness 🙂
You have good x-ray eyes @Sanju, I can’t stop jumping up and down! Your karma is beautiful indeed! The way Novak fans behaved, especially towards Rafa in the lead-up to RG and after his loss to Novak in the quarters was shameful. And the way Novak put the boot in Rafa in the Bernardes affair was equally shameful. It was mostly Novak fans who drove the whole Rafa/Bernades affair on the internet. Yes, I am happy the universe has paid Novak and his nasty fans in kind.
Now they can start the whole RG obsession palaver all over! Priceless………….
and have you noticed how the pundits (and Fedfans) were going on and on about how this RG was critical for Rafa, how if he did not win this RG this would spell the end for Rafa? But lo and behold, they never went there with Novak because he was a shoo-in for the title. Now that he lost, AGAIN, they are saying ah well, shit happens, he will be back next year. Huh?
I am heartily sick of the disrespect shown Rafa. I hope Rafa continues to improve and shoves their disrespect up where the sun don’t shine!
@danica (over on the evil blog) Says:
Senorita,
No, indeed, it’s not easy winning RG. It’s not easy winning any GS. Rafa has 9 RGs and Nole has 5 AOs. Only shows how great both are on those surfaces ( I won’t even go into Roger’s Wimbledons). So, what was your point?
As for Novak being close, I do think he was and I do think he was cheated of more finals. He was constantly put onto Rafa’s path so no wonder he didn’t play the finals in 2013 or 2008 where he played a tighter and better match than Roger in the finals. I do feel that from 2011 onwards, he had great chances to win. There were circumstances that prevented him from doing so and I will not go there now. I just hope that Nole will overcome all the adversity and despite everything and everyone win this elusive title to cement his legacy.
……………………………………………………………………
First of all, @Senorita’s point is Rafa has one AO, Novak has zero RG’s, in spite of Rafa being labeled a one-dimensional clay specialist and Novak being called a complete all court player.
You of course know this @danica and that is why you go straight to the “Novak has been cheated” rationalization to try and explain this contradiction.
Now, let’s play along with this “cheated” rationalization. So, if we accept that Novak was cheated of more finals (therefore the shot at being a champion) by being constantly put into Rafa’s path as you put it, we should then accept that Rafa was cheated of a place in the final this year by being put in the path of the #1 player. Rafa was cheated of more AO trophies by being put in Novak’s path and so on and so on. Oh come on, cry me a river! This is nonsense. In any case, he overcame that challenge this year, and still lost.
Also, if, as you say, Novak was robbed of RG titles by being put in Rafa’s path, you are acknowledging that Rafa is way and above better than Novak at RG, which is true, kudos to you for acknowledging the truth. Also, you appear to be acknowledging that draws are rigged. I agree with you on that but with your conclusion that this is why Novak has zero RGs to his name. The reason for that is he is simply not good enough at RG, not yet anyway. Rafa, on the other hand, has proved he is good enough at AO.
^^…but NOT with your conclusion………
Maybe by circumstances she means, RG2012 rain and match postponed to next day..netgate in 2013..sick in 2014..yeah all those excuses :-). Sour grapes.
If 1 netgate can make your famed rival come from 4 2 down and blast winners past you right, left, centre and snatch the match from right under your nose, you are living in a fools paradise.
Sadly they always bring up RG2013 and how close it was, never bring up AO2012 and how close it was, that could have gone either way too, it was that tight and 7 5 in 3rd and last 2 games both went to deuce.
Yes her logic is twisted. She is trying to have it both ways, maybe her mind is not functioning well today after yesterdays loss 🙂 .
Circumstances..haha..my foot. Atleast Novak did not get injured in a GS final like Rafa did in AO 2014, what can get worse than that if you cant compete your best in a GS final.
If anyone had to battle worst circumstances, be it injury or bad draws or being victim of bad scheduling, it was Rafa who was at the worst of the receiving end.
@sanju! hi dude 😉 almost out of context with rafa’s performance! still looking for a miracle that brings another AO to his trophy room! 😀
anyway, too happy about djoker’s loss! there is a fact! A JOKER NEVER DETHRONES HIS KING!!!!!
Good one rafaelo. Rafa will be back hopefully 🙂
http://www.si.com/tennis/2015/06/07/french-open-wertheim-fifty-parting-thoughts?page=4&devicetype=default
“I feel like this issue has been discussed enough already, but a few thoughts on the Carlos Bernardes and Rafael Nadal situation.
1) Still puzzling over the origins of this mishegas. You’re at a small ATP event in Rio. A veteran player—never mind a star—puts on his shorts backwards and asks to change. You’re the chair umpire, imbued with discretion. You’re not letting him leave the court to change? Really?
2) Nadal’s unwillingness to speed up his play is maddening in the extreme. The guy does so much right and is so sporting in so many other respects. Why not adjust your behavior to comply with the rules? Why even let this become the issue it has?
3) When there’s a dispute between an official and players, it’s thoroughly reasonable for the ATP and/or ITF to give them a “vacation” from one another. We do this all the time in other contexts. Siblings fight and we parents separate them. Attorneys feud with judges and efforts are sometimes made to keep them apart from the next trial. I would go further and suggest that it would be lousy judgment for the ATP/ITF had they NOT separated the feuding parties for a while.
4) But the issue here is the formalization of the policy. When Nadal admitted making the request and the ITF supervisor admitted that the request was granted, precedent has been set. The next player to have a beef will cite this case and we will have embarked on everyone’s favorite amusement park ride, the slippery slope
• In the wake of the controversy, here’s an email an anonymous official sent me: “I found it interesting that it has gotten so much attention as this situation is relatively common through all levels of tennis. All chair umpires, from college through the futures, challengers and ATP/WTA have a “no list” of players whose matches they don’t want to officiate, generally due to an issue that arose in a recent match. Most of the time umpires will only put a player on the list for a few weeks to give tensions time to defuse—in rare circumstances, perhaps after repeated issues, it might be permanent. This happens all the time, and most of the time the player doesn’t even know about it.
A player making the request, like Nadal did, is much less common, but is usually honored just like if the umpire had made the request. So much of being an effective chair umpire depends on having the confidence and respect of the players, and if a recent incident is in the back of a player’s mind, it can cause there to be a lack of confidence in the official before the match even starts. Our goal as officials is to give players a fair match without unnecessarily becoming part of the match, and you never want something from a past match to affect a future one—from either the player’s or official’s side. There are many qualified officials at all of these tournaments, so keeping one player away from a specific official, doesn’t burden the officiating assignments too much and generally makes for a smoother match for all involved.”
Spot on. However, I do not agree with #4, this is false logic. A precedent is not established by an admission of the facts (as Rafa did), it is established by an event occurring FOR THE FIRST TIME. The ATP official who wrote to Wertheim said what the ATP has consistently stated about this non-issue: it was not the first time a player had requested temporary separation from an umpire. If the Rafa/Bernardes affair was not the first time, it therefore cannot be the precedent setter.
This whole issue was driven by Nole and Fedfans hoping to use it to distabilise Rafa to Novak’s advantage in the context of the RG 2015 trophy, much like Roger has used the time in between points issue to try and distabilise Rafa’s march towards eclipsing his Slam haul.
Commies repeat this saga time and time again but making sure they never mention the issue about the shorts just going on and on about Rafa sacking an umpire for enforcing the time between points.
Please Rafa, get back to your winning ways soon, that’s all that matters. The rest is froth.
Wonderful post.
Anyone who is willing to look at this fairly can see how clear and simple the real situation is. But you have to be willing to look past years of distortion surrounding rg and rn.
Agree with ritb on point 4. Agree with Werthiem on Bernardes poor discretion.
However, this is what I sent to Wertheim after reading this article yesterday…
On Hawkeye at Roland Garros:
Hawkeye is not used on clay because its margin of error on ALL surfaces is 3-5 mm which is better on surfaces where the ball leaves no mark. The mark on clay is more accurate than 3-5 mm. If Hawkeye disagrees with the mark left on clay, it more than likely means that Hawkeye was wrong.
On Nadal’s unwillingness to speed up his play:
It is likely caused by an undiagnosed OCD condition that is not within his control.
The 20 second time limit was written when Tennis was played in long pants and fancy bonnets. More than half of the players exceed 20 s between points more than 10% of the time. It shouldn’t be about who goes over by the greatest amount of time.
Against Murray and Wawrinka, Djokovic on at least a dozen points per match went 25-35 seconds with no violation (only one warning). Remember, there is no discretion allowed in the rule for physically demanding long rallies (which most of the court conditions now encourage).
As Nadal said himself, he has played this way all of his 13 year career so why has this been the discussion for only the last three years (around the time he recorded his 10th slam when he turned 26). Coincidence?
I’m not saying everyone needs to bend for Nadal but the rule should be consistent and if you don’t want to allow for physical points, then put a 40 second clock out there. Forcing 20 seconds primarily on Nadal just makes tennis suffer.
(Will not respond to any bonehead insults from some-bot-y’s regurgi-post troll reply to this.)
^^Great! Why do I have the feeling every pundit knows this (issue about the time violations) but no-one wants to risk the ire of the Chosen One by pointing out the obvious…….
like I’ve been saying over the years: The Emperor Has No Clothes
They are not worried about Roger. They are just part of the federazzi GOAT machine
They are asleep..
#TheMatrix
Stan exposed Djerk’s shortcomings. Djerk basically defends the baseline and if you play attacking tennis against him he is toast. Rafa ought to bear this in mind. Djerk is good at winning best of 3 but he can’t maintain his precision defending from the base line over 5 sets too well especially if his opponent takes the game to him. Of his 8 GS titles a few of them went down to the line. He wouldn’t want to see Stan in his draw eve again because now Stan believes he can beat him.
I feel so much better that Djerk did not win in Rafa’s palace. The King will be back.
‘Djerk basically defends the baseline and if you play attacking tennis against him he is toast’ LOL… i am happy about stan’s win but hehe, this does not make sense haha…
Regarding belief, stan actually feels he can beat anyone! And he is proving it now.
I am happy about Stan’s win, but will not use it to now degrade Novak’s game. He is quite good at transitioning from offense to defense and mixes it up well. That’s one of his strengths. I am not about to trash him all over the place because he lost to Stan.
Stan won because he was the better player that day. He has always had the game to trouble Novak. But he didn’t have the belief. However, Stan did beat Novak in the quarterfinals at the 2014 AO, so he already knew he could beat him. He didn’t gain that from this win!
The idea that Novak can’t keep up a good enough level of play in a best three out of five set match, is not born out by the facts. The guy isn’t #1 for nothing! He also has 8 slams.
Amazing that some would demote Stan’s victory on the grounds of “bludgeoning” when that was the argument used against Rafa’s game, that he was just a ball-passer and didn’t come up with enough winners. So now they turn it around when it fits them.
The argument is as unfair as it is dead wrong and had it been the other way around we would never hear the end of it. Stan deserves to be praised for this amazing win.
For me, the only tennis I don’t like to watch is the ace after ace one, I don’t take anything away from it – if someone has this weapon good for them but, I just don’t like watching it. Even so, I wouldn’t call it bludgeoning either.
Well done to Stan and sorry for Novak’s fans, he was indeed very gracious in defeat and that long applause was nice to see.
++++++1
Agreed. When critics write about Rafa being in “beast mode” it sounds more like an insult than praise. Now they write about Stan playing in “beast mode” and we are to interpret this as the greatest strength a player can have.
Novak got passive after winning the first set last year? haha… no…. it was rafa who stepped it up. Rafa’s forehand was shaky in set 1 but right from the first point of set 2, his forehand caught fire! his forehand DTL destroyed nole and this was the main story.
Novak mentioned in his presser that rafa’s forehand DTL led to his undoing! can you believe it? He mentioned one particular shot! it is common for players to say their opponent’s forehand or backhand or serve led to their undoing but mentioning one particular shot (forehand DTL) showed the kind of damage rafa was able to do. I suggest you watch the highlights and then re-assess 🙂
abhirf, novak did not lose to stan because he got passive after set 1 ! He was the most passive in set 1 ! he drew closer to the baseline in the following sets! He was not aggressive enough even then is another story but he was certainly most passive in set 1.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/tennis/french-open-2015/top-stories/Novak-Djokovic-haunted-by-Paris-ghosts-of-Sampras-Edberg-Becker/articleshow/47580622.cms
Sanju, i replied to one of your posts on the previous page. Just telling in case you have missed 🙂
Which one Hasan? There are so many posts there..so difficult to find 🙂
haha..regarding open stance backhand
Eh, maybe you DID need to do something special and go a gear up to win the big cup at RG Novak, or maybe you are happy with the dinner plates:
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Novak-Djokovic-believes-he-does-not-need-to-do-anything-special-for-Roland-Garros-articolo23983.html
“After lifting the Italian Open title, Novak Djokovic managed to grab his 4th ATP 1000 event of the year and with a 22 match winning streak before heading into Roland Garros, the Serbian believes he does not need to prepare to go all the way in Paris.
“I don’t think that I need to go a gear up; I don’t think that I have to do anything special in order to be successful in Roland Garros,” Djokovic said. “I have been very close to that title before, played several finals. I just need to continue preparing myself for that event as well as I’m preparing for any other, and try to keep the routine going. Hopefully that can bring me to where I want to be.”
With everything that he has achieved so far this year, this kind of confidence is not a bad thing at all for the Serbian. Djokovic has already won the Australian Open and has since gone on to lift every masters 1000 event he has entered – Indian Wells, Miami, Monte Carlo and now the Italian Open.
So as things head to the major part of the clay season, Djokovic might already be the pick for many to be crowned champion at Roland Garros. Only time will tell, whether Djokovic is able to do that or not.”
Pride does indeed come before a fall………………
I am convinced..you just wont stop 🙂 Haha
So mean you are , poor guy..stop shoving dinner plates at his face 🙂
Won’t stop until all the mean juices in me are drained, or Rafa starts winning important matches, whichever comes first. 🙂
sanju, you enjoy Rafa’s slumps so spare us the sanctimony.
Yes after every slump, he rises like a phoenix..so as well enjoy the downs 🙂
Sanju,
Novak lost because Stan played inspired tennis. It wasn’t about Novak when all was said and done. Stan came out and played like a man on a mission. He didn’t let up, kept his focus, fought off break points, served extremely well, hit his SHBH will brilliant precision and accuracy. He was the better player on the day.
Djerk has enough cups he needs some trays. 🙂
^^^^Nadline: Love that one, I’m nostalgic for the days when you and deucey used to trade gags
The sienna of Tenngrand. Congrats.
After winning so many RG plates, Novak can now melt them into a nice trophy!….hehe!!!
Fed @ Wimbledon
Rafa @ RG
Nole @ AO
People of tennis community need to understand one thing – Nobody can beat these guys when they are playing there best on these surfaces.
Period!
no way
^^^Riky
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the comment by abhirf?
Agree with Ricky.
Rafa beat Fed at his best @ Wimbledon.
Stan beat Nole at his best @ AO.
At least you got one out of three!
Doesn’t Fed have the same number of AO Slams as Novak, 5? So can we not argue that Rafa beat Fed at AO at a time it was one of Fed’s best surfaces?
too bad that at ’09 Fed had two days or rest and Rafa one, too bad Rafa had an exhausting 5 setter semi and could barely move to practice on the Saturday in between and on the Sunday morning 🙂
federer has won 4 AO titles, not 5 ..
Rafa @ RG true
Other 2 definately not true
Fed got beaten by Rafa in 08 Wimby and it was Roger at his near best or best. His level was equal to his 07 level, Rafa just improved in 08 vs 07. It wasnt that Roger wasnt playing well ,I give it to you that he had some mental demons of the thrashing he got 4 weeks back at RG 08, so mentally maybe a bit weak however no issue in his game.
Rafa beat Fed when he was at his best in Wimby
^^Ting!
Nope he wasn’t. Most definitely not. Using that logic, Nadal was fit in AO 2014. Nadal doesn’t have a monopoly on lack of fitness excuses. Fed lost shitloads on trraining period and according to Pierre was playing catch-up the whole year.
OxC says:
June 8, 2015 at 12:14 pm
—Using that logic, Nadal was fit in AO 2014—
============================================
Rafa wasn’t fit, he got injured during the warm-up of the AO 2014 final. He was suffering from that back injury (facet syndrome) all year round.
Wimbledon
As a very young player, still improving on grass, rafa came close to beating fed at his best at Wimby in 2007. (Before actually beating him there in 2008.)
Had they met again at Wimby with a healthy rafa in subsequent years the best grass player ever (rf) might have been beaten there again by rafa… not at all unlikely.
Remember the ’08 match? Over 5 sets Roger did not once break rafa, if memory serves. It was almost over in 3. And in 4. The level of tennis was outstanding throughout most of it… could not be described as mere ball-bashing or physicality etc.
AO
Rafa has been injured etc more often than I care to remember at AO. Even in Novak’s best 12 months, at AO ’12, when rafa had been defeated 6 times in a row by Novak, the match was very close through the last sets, remember? That match alone spells that it is far from certain that at his best Novak cannot be defeated at AO.
RG
Now, and with no bias! :-), rafa at his best at RG? We have 8 tournaments where he was at his best or close enough and no one came close, and one where he was not at his best and one came a little closer still did not win. 9 out of 9.
Roger broke rafa’s serve one time in that match. He was up a break in the second set before rafa stormed back to take the set 6-4.
Well, rafa at RG is on a totally different level than federer at wimbledon or esp novak at AO.
Novak got beaten by stan in AO in 2014 and he was pushed to 10-8 by stan in the final set in 2013. Novak is very strong at AO but rafa’s level at RG is a totally different thing.
In Wimby 2008 final, Roger was very good but not at his best.
His service was pretty average that day comparing how he has served there over his career.
Also about not even getting close in a best of 5 when Rafa is at his best: Rome 2005, 2006 finals and RG 2013 SF comes to mind.
dunno, I stayed home the entire glued to the tv… they both played at an incredible level, by all accounts.
I think that the facts of Rafa’s level on grass when in good form versus Roger’s level on grass when in good form… i.e. similar level… do not sit well with millions of people out there.
Like I said, very good Roger vs Best Rafa!
Even a good Roger day on grass makes for pretty high level quality.
The fact that Roger played much better in the last 3 sets should be enough to suggest that he didn’t played his best that day.
revisionism, I think
roger at wimbledon 2008 was best roger on grass
Perhaps that was hard to acknowledge even while watching it because …
too much cognitive dissonance between …
on the one hand:
the 22 two year old claycourt specialist, still improving on grass, with a positive H2H against Roger nearly won in 3 and 4 sets and then did in 5 … against Roger at his prime and with multiple Wmbledon titles to his name
and on the other hand:
the notion that roger was the better on grass by a long shot than anyone else. He was, compared to all… with this one exception of this improving young claycourt specialist.
It was well before 2008 that biases around Roger and Rafa became entrenched and hardly questioned.
abhirf,
we’ve had similar conversations before,
I wonder,
have you ever had at least some glimpses of truth of the biases we rafans have been pointing out over the years, or are in your views all those things we point out just our misconceptions because of being a fan of this particular player?
abhirf, ok even if we agree it was roger not at his absolute best on grass in 2008, what makes you think rafa was ? Just look at rafa’s serve back then! It was an improved shot but weak as compared to what it became in the years after ! His forehand was also nowhere as aggressive as it got in the years after that! Only his backhand was near its top level.
Rome 2006, again, rafa was the king of clay at that time but his serve was a joke at that time! he just used to roll it in to start points with some advantage! His approach was so much more defensive too. It was 2008 onward he started playing with aggression on all surfaces! Hence , the 2008 RG where he lost about 1.4 games on average per set throughout the tournament!
No Rafa just felt the pressure of closing out the match and temporarily let Fed in.
It is all opinion about who played best.
2008 is considered by most to be the best match in the history of the game. It is somewhat self serving as a fan to suggest that such a match was possible when one guy was not at his best.
Novak has a very efficient mundane style. What is his signature shot? He makes few mistakes, to his credit, but wins most matches due to his opponent’s bad play than his excellence. I don’t get the point danica made about Novak having to get passed Rafa at RG being the reason he’s failed to win it; everyone has had to go through Rafa in 11 years and the 2 people who beat a les than 100% Rafa didn’t win the title. People have to acknowledge Rafa’s dominance at RG for over a decade. It’s unheard of to only lose 2 matches out of 93 in best of 5 sets on clay in 11 years. That is who I call a GOAT.
Novak couldn’t hang with Stan yesterday, Stan was the superior player.
Stan played very well, and adapted his game to Novak, after first set.
Yet Stan did not play the best claycourt played there in the last 12 years. That was done repeatedly by Rafa, and that level of claycourt game is far higher than anything we have yet seen from Novak at RG, this year and all previous years.
With the possible exception of his first match with Rafa there 9 years ago when he retired two sets down yet ‘in control of the match’. 🙂
“Novak has a very efficient mundane style. What is his signature shot? He makes few mistakes, to his credit, but wins most matches due to his opponent’s bad play than his excellence”.
This better be a joke !!!!
No, it’s just denial from an overly obsessed Rafan. Nothing new.
vamosrafa,
Yes, it is a joke! Really? Novak lost in the final! Okay! But now the trashing and revisionist history regarding his game? Really?
It is beyond a joke! It’s insulting!
Just imagine, if Djokovic had won, we would have endured a treacly speech about how marriage had matured him, made him a better man, made him a better player, he can now hit overhead smashes and volley, all thanks to holy matrimony.
As it is, my only criticism of Wawa’s speech was his not telling the whole world how his recent messy and very public separation from his wife helped his game focus, helped improve his game and winners count per game.
😉
We all know there would be some idiots on Tour who would be sorely tempted to try out Wawa’s blueprint for success. I mean, some did go gluten free, no?
Maybe some should adopt cold shower, 10 pre-game rituals, two towels, perfectly adjusted bottles… a guaranteed success for a near perfect record at the toughest tournament. Sorry, couldn’t resist :-).
Or, if you are a woman pro player, take some time off to develop your fashion industry. You stand to get to 20 slams and still be going strong.
^^Touché!
@RITB
You forgot to mention his declaration just before his child was born………………………….
‘without a doubt priorities change: my priority.is my family: tennis is not the number one anymore”
The commies never stopped referring to his newly married state in the run up to the USO and the fact that he was now a father for weeks after the child arrived.
I seem to recall he cut short the ‘paternity leave’ to jet out east for the Asian swing barely ten days after the birth. No sharing the night time bottle feeds, changing nappies etc.
So what is Novak’s signature shot? The BHDL? How often does he use it? How often is it his go to shot?
I know you hate djokovic but such delusion? LOL.
Backhand DTL is a signature shot for him but you don’t even have to go beyond the second shot in a rally to see his signature shot. His ROS! My God…perhaps he has the best returns ever!
It’s a figment of someone’s imagination that he is the best returner of all time. he has problems returning serves from the giants. Don’t be so gullible and swallow everything you’re told.
We don’t need to swallow what we are told. We can pretty much derive our conclusions from what we have seen.
Nole is the best returner at present and maybe of all times.
nadline is necessarily delusional to maintain her reality.
Tiggy’s awfully quiet post final, I wonder why? Would expect to have seen his take by now…….
Here you are…
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/06/2015-french-open-final-stan-wawrinka-novak-djokovic/55199/#.VXWmcc9VhBc
Djoko won just 1 point off Stan’s 2nd serve in the whole of the 2nd set! How about that for the best returner of all time?
But Stan’s 2nd serves were far more powerful than many would even attempt.
Many of 2nd serves ranged around 110 mph. That is insane.
You still seem confused about Return of Serve vs the Return Game.
forget it…some posters have no clue about the difference between return game and ROS…
YES! This is not the first time it has been pointed out!
yeah…rafa told us too novak has the best returns ever….. why do you lie rafa? such a bad guy you are .
Cannot believe someone can be this delusional but nadline keeps raising the bar. I remember once dimitrov gave rafa a tough time in Monte carlo and after the match she said dimitrov has the best one handed backhand on the tour because he was hitting it so well against rafa . LOL …..Dimitrov having the best one handed backhand and now novak relying on opponent’s mistakes and not having any weapons of his own! HAHAHA
a guy has 8 slams, 24 masters 1000, has beaten rafael nadal 21 times, has beaten roger federer 19 times but he basically relies on opponents’ mistakes to win matches. HAHAHAHAHA
nadline used to be a tennis fan but she gave all that up because of the weak era and now loves Rafa instead of tennis. Nothing new.
Thank you! Well said! 🙂
Yes, Rafa did say that in 2011 so everyone has latched on to that. That was in 2011 it doesn’t apply anymore. ROS and return game is semantics. You set up control of the point with the quality of your ROS.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
No. It’s not,
Service return percentage and return games won percentage are undeniable numbers.
At one time before the Weak Era, I believe that you probably knew this.
Why don’t you pay attention to Rafa if he is your favorite player? He just said at RG when he was interviewed that Novak is the best player right now, that it will be difficult to beat him, he will have to play at his best!
Well? How can you trash Novak when Rafa himself has given him all due credit? Doesn’t Rafa always tell the truth? Or is Rafa lying now?
I don’t get it!
You guys just don’t like an objective point of view.
No such thing.
Just like nothing can travel the speed of light.
But with that analogy in mind, you are not even moving.
so what is your objective point of view? LOL … ferrer, murray have incredible ROS…
what is your ‘objective’ point of view? hehe
Sorry, if I am disrupting the topic of discussion. Just felt compelled to write
read somewhere at the top about the Wimbly 2008 finals, when Roger Federer was supposedly not at his best.
Thats B/S, Fed had the BEST Wimbly that year till the finals. Till the finals, he did not lose a set and was broken the least number of times. Guess once or twice.
He played great in the finals. He was just beaten by Rafa who played even better. Perhaps the best performance of his career.
Surely, a match of that quality cannot be produced if one player was not at his best.
Brilliantly stated backed up with real data.
and brushed Safin aside in 3 sets in the semis and later he said something like ‘ this is my part of the season’ … he was being cocky but oops…. got dethroned
What are you saying man? Since when has Safin been a legend on grass? And Roger beating people in straight-sets on grass is no biggy. He’s by far the best player of this era on the surface. That by and of itself does not come even remotely close to an assessment of his form.
He was very satisfied with his form and was dimissing the field just like in previous years. He dropped one set en route to the final (lost one set to Ferrero) but did not drop a set en route to the final in 2008. He was claiming ‘it is my time now’ and he was beaten by rafa! Do you honestly think rafa had developed his aggressive game fully back then? NO WAY. His serve was underdeveloped and forehand was nowhere as aggressive as it got in later years.
Federer is undoubtedly the best on grass as far as this generation is concerned! He leads the field with a HUGE margin. The point being discussed is, he was never at the same level of dominance as that shown by Nadal at RG! Federer was lucky not to run into nadal in 2010 because the 2010 rafa was serving so much better, hitting his forehand more aggressively . Nobody here is saying rafa is better on grass! NO WAY.
Rafa’s best at RG is a totally different level. That is what being said ! Nobody is questioning federer’s brilliance on grass!
Roger had not dropped a set until the final at Wimby 2008.
Atul,
Bravo!
something can travel at the speed of light = light.
implied
RITB..Tignors article
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/06/2015-french-open-final-stan-wawrinka-novak-djokovic/55199/#.VXWwss-qqkp
Thanks @Sanju
Haha, no way does Roger at his best on grass lose to a guy who struggles to make it out of the first week at Wimbledon most of the times. Fed fought like a lion, there’s no doubt about it. He wasn’t going to let go of the trophy so easily but what he played that day wasn’t grass court tennis (nor was it his physical best. He was visibly tired in the fifth set and literally getting by only on his serve). Could it be mental?Yeah probably though I don’t buy it. But he wasn’t spectacular from the forecourt throughout the tournament. Interestingly, he was brilliant on that front during AO 09, but with his back problems becoming an ongoing issue by the end of 2008, his serve failed him completely which, even against Nadal is a huge surprise. And then of course it is the court speed at Wimbledon. I was watching the final last year and I literally couldn’t believe my eyes. Djokovic was moonballing on some of the points, Roger’s slice had no bite to it and it looked like a re-run of an Australian Open match with Roger banging his head against a brick-wall. The comments for both matches had a premium on superior defense and rallies when in fact, the awe and excitement ought to have been reserved for superior offense. To be fair, 2009 had the same problem. Luckily for him, they had to close the roof for both the Semis and Final matches in 2012 and that is the first time in a long time, I’ve seen Roger attack confidently on grass. Trust his superior offense to do the job for him. Otherwise, he pretty much plays with a sword dangling on his head.
OxC says:
June 8, 2015 at 4:33 pm
—Haha, no way does Roger at his best on grass lose to a guy who struggles to make it out of the first week at Wimbledon most of the time.—
=========================================
Rafa reached the final in 2006 & 2007:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHDqF3CWgAAmKIW.png
Doesn’t change the fact that he barely makes it out. With the exception of 2008, he has struggled every single year. Obviously once the top cover of the grass is eroded the surface plays even more conducive to Nadal’s style. The fact that both Nadal and Djokovic have the same number of Wimbledons as Edberg and Becker displays the extent to which the game has regressed with crucial skill-sets being lost to bare athleticism. It is not an issue of artistry but an issue of amazing skills being rendered irrelevant on the court to satiate uneducated and uninitiated masses. It’s borderline ludicrous to think of how little these guys have to adjust (and they STILL struggle). I don’t know about you, but I don’t fancy watching ping-pong in the name of tennis.
I at times cannot understand why cant some Rafa fans give proper credit to his main rivals and always find faults in them. What is wrong in acknowledging the truth? Also why keep Rafa on a pedestal when he is clearly not there during many parts of his career? He has faced ups n downs like anybody else.
Also if people are finding faults in Rafa, not sure why question the integrity of his fans . Who said that fans are supposed to be blinded by their love and keep their blinders on.
RAFA IS HUMAN, HE IS NOT GOD THE ALMIGHTY.
gussie and quite often nadline seem incapable or unwilling to understand and accept this
June 8, 2015 at 4:58 pm
—gussie and quite often nadline seem incapable or unwilling to understand and accept this—
===============================================
chloro is incapable or willing to understand that people are entitled to give their opinion if they so wish.
[I used somebody else’s quote]
Correction:
incapable or willing ➡ incapable or unwilling
well said Sanju…..I really agree with this!!
Sanju,
Preach it! You go! Don’t take any crap!
You are a Rafa fan through and through just like everyone else. Just because you don’t have blinders on and don’t worship Rafa like a God, does not mean you aren’t his fan!
We have Rafa’s own words. He has given full credit to Novak. He has praised his game many times. He has respect for the other top players. If he can say positive things about them, then why can’t his fans?
I just think it’s unfortunate that after Novak lost, his game and achievements must be degraded. I do not like him, but I am not about to demean his accomplishments. You don’t win 8 slams in this sport by playing crap. The unfortunate thing is that what is being said here about him is similar to what some obsessed Fed fans have said about Rafa. They have degraded his game as he continued to beat Fed. They did not respect Rafa’s game. Yet now here some are doing the same thing in trashing Novak’s game.
The guy can play! He’s got the talent. He has played Rafa tough and beaten him at slams. So let’s give the guy all due credit. He lost the final because he wasn’t the best player. Stan got the better of him. But Novak isn’t going away. He’s the #1 player with maybe the biggest lead ever in ranking points. That’s not something that can be trashed or just ignored.
Stan beat Novak in 4 yesterday..well if it was Rafa..the sorry state Rafa is in today..he would have been crushed in straights . Novak can absorb the power better than Rafa at this stage of their careers.
Stan would have beaten anyone yesterday.
^^^^Cant argue with that Sanju! You have always been Rafa’s harshest critic ever since I can remember. Cheryl once said how you must drive the rest of us crazy with your anti-jinxing 🙂
Rafa said he didnt watch the finals and was busy practising!!
What do you think about Rafa’s chances at Wimbly?
Atul1985 says:
June 8, 2015 at 4:42 pm,
—Rafa said he didnt watch the finals and was busy practising!!—
============================
You can see the proof on the Rafael Nadal page.
For me, it depends how much match play Rafa gets before Wimby. If he plays Rosol on Wednesday and is tentative (being 1st match on grass and all) and is blasted off the court, that will reduce the amount of time he spends on court, not good. Of course he gets another chance for more time on court at Queens but you get my drift………..
If he can get to the semis at both Stuttgart and Queens then I think he can get into Wimby reasonably confident.
His chances at Wimby? Massively depends on the draw……………
If he makes the QF, will be a good result in my opinion.
I agree Sanju. Lets see.
The extra week of rest would have really helped Rafa in the past couple of years.
This year, he got the extra week of rest during the French Open itself…lol
Agree. At this point if he survives the first week it’s a success story. Remember he only has 150(?) points to defend from Wimbledon. Any points he can earn is gravy,
He may have some good results in the grass season. Ultimately there are only two things I’m concerned about.
No injuries.
And somehow work out his mental issues… that anxiety … that seems deep-seated. I do believe that this is as necessary, if not more, than the thing that seems to be enough and used to be enough: getting enough good wins to rebuild confidence. Until that is sorted he will never be safe from the sort of bad days he’s had often enough all season now. I just wish that thinking about adding a past pro to his team were as ‘normal’ for rafa’s team as it is for other teams of other top (and wealthy) players.
#MagnusLarsson
As much as I’d like to blame that faux pas on my spell checker, I’ll have to admit to a senior moment there…
#MagnusNorman
(Then again, Larsson is available soooo…)
Atul,
I think that Rafa needs to get matches under his belt and get the feel of the grass. He’s always talked about the importance of getting practice for the transition to grass. If he can get some wins in the warm up tournaments, then we will see.
I am not ready to make any predictions specifically about Wimbledon. Rafa is now at #10 and his draw is going to be quite different because of that. Things are different now. I would like to see Rafa have a good run because it will help his confidence. But we will just have to wait and see.
Not losing in the first or second round would be a great help!!
First year ever with Rafa that I am not dreaming of him winning……
such a bitter irony about the extra week this year when he is out early from RG…
Oh forgot that I meant to say : congrats to Stan fans and commiserations to Nole fans…..your guy was a class act in defeat and still remains a brilliant player. Rafa’s biggest rival by far and the ONLY one who has ever given him fits…..
One thing I really miss about Rafa losing form is that we haven’t got to see more of the Rafole matches which are so thrilling – one of the greatest rivalries in tennis history….(obviously I don’t count any of the matches they’ve played this year with rafa a shadow of his real self : am talking about when they’re dukeing it out toe to toe…)
An optimistic comment on tennis.com
Klaus Nomada Howfar 57 minutes ago
With Djokovic mentally broken and probably not playing till Wimbledon it`s even harder to believe he’s going to defend his title. This is I believe another great opportunity both for Fedeer and Murray. At this very moment it is hard to predict if Wawrinka is able to keep focused and maintain this incredible level of play. Personally I am not so sure about that, it’s even doubtful to me.Is there a slightest chance for Rafa? I hope there is more than one. Probably because of the longer gap between RG and Wimbledon he decided to play at Queen`s. Now he also joined Stuttgart, a tournament played on grass for the first time in its history. This makes me believe that long before RG he decided not to throw everything he had at clay courts, Paris especially, and to leave some fuel and surprises for Wimbledon. Gonna check it out in a close future.
^^Sorry don’t believe Rafa held back on clay tournaments’ success to save himself for Wimby. Not in Rafa’s DNA to do that. I don’t expect Stan to go far at Wimby, Never doen well on grass, do not expect that to change. More so now he has RG under his belt, I expect him to still be enjoying his RG win come Wimby. Would not surprise me to see him exit early. Fed will again be favoured in the draw but he won’t get far, 5-setters are too much for him now. I expect Rafa to do better than last year but too early for him to win it. I expect Novak to do well but my money’s on Muzza winning Wimby 2015.
June 8, 2015 at 6:03 pm
—Klaus Nomada Howfar 57 minutes ago…
Now he [Rafa] also joined Stuttgart, a tournament played on grass for the first time in its history.—
=======================
Now? Rafa announced almost 2 months ago that he was going to play in Stuttgart.
Stuttgart, 16 April 2015: ¤¤ Rafael Nadal will be the top star at the first MercedesCup grass court edition in Stuttgart from 6-14 June 2015. The 28-year old Spaniard announced his participation at the ATP 250 tournament at the Weissenhof club on Thursday in Monte Carlo. ¤¤
http://wwww.mercedescup.de/ENG/News/News/RafaelNadalisthemegastar/
amy,
I hear you! Yes, this is the first year when I am not thinking about Rafa winning Wimby. I just hope that he can get out of the early rounds.
It is true that there is such irony about having an extra week after RG.
Seeing Rafa play in the warm up tournaments may give us a better idea of how he will do at Wimby.
nny, SO wish that he wasn’t playing Rosol!! I hate him so……
at least I have no expectations to temper this year but that is worse in a way…..I think it feels even worse given that Wimby is my home slam ( I even live quite close to London).
Commies and press are going to be unbearable this year and I will have to avoid all press and watch everything on mute!! pity me!
I do not relish the prospect of Rafa facing Rosol. Not in his first match!
I agree that it is worse not to have expectations. For sure!
I feel for you, being that this your home slam. That makes it even harder.
All we can do is watch and hope and see what happens.
Are you planning on going to Wimby at all?
nny, no I don’t think so!!
I really really hope that rafa doesn’t get players like rosol, klizan, kygrios &tc in his draw….he seems to have a curse on him at wimby….
if only just for once he could get a soft draw with clay courters and qualifiers way out of contention…!
I still don’t have any great hopes but it would be so nice just to see him have some easy matches where he could play himself in…
It’s hell being so emotionally involved……………..I should have learnt to cope with it by now after sixty years of watching tennis ?
it’s something to do with rafa himself though, isn’t it ed?? I’ve liked tennis players before but not to a fraction of a degree to how I support rafa. I think it’s partly to do with all the injuries and feeling that he’s been dealt some very rough hands. Makes one especially protective!
I so miss the old rafa…most inspiring tennis player ever in terms of sheer heart and passion!
Amy, sorry i read your post regarding whom should rafa have in his team so replying here.
I think this is not an easy choice to make. I would like to see a coach who would instill more belief in rafa, make him calm and push rafa to be more aggressive. Cahil seems to be a decent option but it is always a tough decision. The personality should be compatible to a good extent. Uncle Toni is good at identifying problems but I think he is technically not the best of coaches and rafa’s stroke techniques early on in his career show this. Toni, has however, proven to be a great student of the game and he has evolved his skills and made rafa such a better player. The way rafa’ s serve, volleys have evolved technically is inspiring!
Rafa’s relationship with Toni makes things complex. He is so close to him that leaving him is not like leaving a regular coach. Perhaps he should keep Toni and add someone to his side? What about Paul annacone?
vamosrafa,
thanks very much for that. I also think that he should probably keep Toni and add someone much as Djoker has with Vajda and Becker. You don’t seem to be hugely keen on the idea of Cahill? I am a bit ambivalent about Annacone because although I have a lot of respect for him I don’t really see that he did a great deal for Fed, using that as a bench mark, as it were. I would probably rather see rafa with an ex great, someone who understands the pressures and stresses and can help him out at the personal level as much as anything else.
When you think of what Magnus Norman has done with Stan it makes you long to see rafa work with someone who could both bring his game along and give him more confidence. I think Toni is something of a double-edged sword in this respect and has tended to rein in rafa’s confidence and rafa himself has spoken about how he has bred insecurities in him which lead to his nerves at the beginning of big tournaments. I fear that these nerves and insecurities are way too strong at the moment and that it needs someone other than Toni to help with them (an anTonidote!!) as he is part of their source. So, an ex great to help both with his game and with the inspiration and understanding he needs and possibly also a sports psychologist (they do work afterall). But no, breaking from Toni is too complex and too much of a change….but like Vajda, Toni could take more free time as he has said before that he wants to do.
Perhaps he should pinch Norman!!
Sorry if this is not wildly coherent, I spent the afternoon at the dentist’s (aaaargh….)
PS so far people have suggested: guga, borg, cahill, sampras, agassi, j-mac, steffi, moya!! quite a list….
@AMY. Yes to your first sentence. It is everything to do with the character and integrity of the man himself. Both through my work and business contacts I have been fortunate enough to get to see more matches than your average tennis fan.
The very first time I went to Roland Garros was in 2005 and by chance saw Rafa playing Sebastian Grosjean. I’d heard his name but knew very little about him – however it was love at first sight!!!! I then managed to wangle a ticket for the SF – the rest is history. . – .
1 more from Nole fan
Lazarenko 2 hours ago
Novak simply doesn’t have what it takes. I’m a Serb and Novak’s fan, but he simply is not as great player as Nadal or Federer.
Peak of the tennis season is from RG to USO (RG-W-USO with Montreal and Sincy), and all the big names are setting their best form for that period. If we observe Novak’s performance in that period since 2011, the results are not good at all. 13 majors played, he reached finals or semifinals in each. He won only 3 trophies. If we discard 2011 for the analysis, the results are even worse – 10 majors, only one won (Wimbledon 2014).
Simply, that is the best he can do – participating in finals or semifinals “in the season” (from RG to USO) and winning the “off season” tournaments (from Shanghai to Rome). He is consistent, no word about it. He always plays at his maximum, reaching the semifinals at RG-W-USO and winning almost everything in the off season – that is exactly why he is Number 1.
Unfortunately, that is how he is going to be remembered – as someone who was earning points and money in AO and Maters 1000 (nothing wrong with that), but he will never achieve truly legendary status of Federer and Nadal.
Iv’e always been interested in looking for the trends in the stats during the course of a match rather simply looking at the global figures.
On Sunday it was clear pretty early Djokovic was struggling in areas where he is usually strong and the cracks in his confidence began to show. His frustration and nervousness finally got the better of him.
I talked earlier in the tournament that he and Federer both have a tendency to crack when they want something too badly. Hence neither of them have managed to add the Olympic Gold to their trophy cupboard. To date when his Career Slam has been at stake Djokovic has stumbled at the final fence three times and second from the last fence three times.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CG9C1GnXAAAsozW.jpg
Rafa made a comment that I believe was posted somewhere on here, to the effect that the loss to Novak in the RG quarterfinals was not his worst moment. He said that his worst moment was when he lost the 2014 AO because he was injured and could not really compete.
I often wonder how much damage that loss did to him. The fact that he brought it up after all this time, says a lot. That loss must have left some scars. He confirmed what I have said, i.e. that this loss was terrible because he couldn’t play and have a chance to win. If a player does his best and gives it his all, then he can live with a tough loss. That was the way it was for Rafa after the 2102 AO final loss to Novak. He wasn’t discouraged because he found the answers and also because he fought back in that match. He put himself in a position to win the match. So that loss he could live with, because there were good things that came out of it.
Rafa is human. How much can he be expected to date? Losing the double career slam that way, must have left some scars. Then he had to deal with the back injury that didn’t heal very quickly. Then right before the Summer Slam, he gets a freak wrist injury while practicing. Then the appendicitis. It’s really been one thing after another.
I hope that Rafa stays healthy. That would be one blessing. Then if he can get himself going and work out the confidence issues, the anxiety and the doubts. I don’t see him adding anyone to his team, but I really wish he would. Another point of view can be very helpful.
Sorry, I meant to say – how much can he be expected to TAKE!
In 1st serve return % as well as 2nd serve return % Rafa leads Murray who leads Djokovic. See ATP matchfacts. Among the current players Rafa is the best. So nadline is right. Djokovic is not the best.
You are again confusing the issues. Return serve is different from return service games! Can we get it straight please once and for all?
It’s not done to give Rafa his due round here you know. It’s fashionable to talk Rafa down only praise for his rivals is acceptable. I don’t just swallow the hyperbole dished out by biased commies all I know is Rafa has the best record against the giants except, maybe, Federer who has an exceptional record against Karlovic. Round here they will split hairs just not to praise Rafa. Anyone who gives him his due is besotted with him.
I just don’t see what is so exceptional about ROS.
^^Djoko’s ROS.
Has Carlos Moya’s name come up as someone who could be helpful in a semi-official role? He ticks all the boxes.
He mentored Rafa in his teenage years and they are still close friends. What’s more he is a Mallorcan, knows the extended Nadal family, briefly reached No 1 ranking, has won RG and knows the ups and downs of playing with persistent injuries.
He is anyways all the time with Rafa. If he was needed, would have till now right?
I’m a bit sceptical about the idea of Moya ed….. I mean he’s always around and that presence doesn’t seem to have helped rafa. Actually, I was thinking the other day that if they did bring anyone in it would probably be Moya because he already knows everyone and fits in. But that in itself is part of the problem in my view….the way everything stays the same in that group and there is no movement or change. Rafa needs a completely fresh look, fresh eyes and ears. Of course, it’s a little difficult to see how this new coach with the fresh look fits into this group which has been around for ever, with both Toni and Roig in the picture plus the extended family!!
Why is it that ONLY Rafa won’t look at the changes every other top player would be considering….because of all of the above….
I really hope they don’t make this ‘change’ with someone like Moya which effectively means reinforcing the status quo…!
ed251137 says:
June 9, 2015 at 4:45 am
—Has Carlos Moya’s name come up as someone who could be helpful in a semi-official role? —
===========================================
Carlos Moya is Rafa’s practice partner.
https://www.facebook.com/Nadal/photos/pb.64822581025.-2207520000.1433836128./10152980121881026/?type=3&theater
Ed, also Rafa needs someone fluent in his language.
RT @Kamakshi_Tandon: “The top ten has six Grand Slam winners, and nine of the ten have reached a Grand Slam final. Looking at you, Milos Raonic. :)”
#WeakLink
Tsonga has been in a Slam final, AO and he has been good since his comeback. Expect him to make a strong run for the Top 10.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Singles.aspx
^^^@Sanju
Not necessarily. Friends are often reluctant to be completely honest and hide behind euphemisms. That’s why it would need to be on a semi-official basis with a specific brief. A few years ago I was asked by friends if I knew of a consultant who would help develop their business. I offered to ‘work’ with them for a fee. I wrote a proposal outlining the problems and how they could be tackled which they agreed to. From then on they paid attention to, and acted on, the advice which was no different from the helpful suggestions I’d been offering for years except it was a formal arrangement.
@augusta08
It is just because they are close friends, in regular contact and Rafa looks up to him, that he would fit the bill. Moya has spoken about Rafa’s anxiety complex and for all we know may have already been ordered by Uncle T to help him.
ed (at 8:43 am),
I don’t remember that Moya has spoken about Rafa’s anxiety.
I repeat my comment I posted in another thread:
¤¤ augusta08 says:
June 5, 2015 at 4:48 pm
Rafa said more than 2 months ago, in Miami: ¤¤ But at the same time, still playing with too much nerves for a lot of moments, in important moments, still playing with a little bit of ANXIOUS on that moments.¤¤
….
In the article, Shireling1 posted [on June 5, 2015 at 4:07 pm], Moya doesn’t speak about ‘anxiety’. Ferrero repeats what Rafa has said: “…It’s this anxiety he’s [Rafa] mentioned before…” ¤¤
https://tenngrand.com/2015/06/02/french-open-qf-preview-and-pick-djokovic-vs-nadal/comment-page-8/#comment-197484
^^^my memory must be playing tricks and it was the Ferrero quote I remembered. But you would agree, n’est pas that the info re: anxiety disorder and/or OCD is in the public arena. Also what I said about Moya being a good fit still stands.
ed251137 (at 9:54 am),
Ferrero only repeated what Rafa has said.
As for OCD, the diagnosis given by the armchair doctors can’t be taken seriously. 🙂
Rafa seems to think he is doing well and can be at the top again. Either he is totally in denial or he is ready to start winning.
no he is never in denial….he is prepared to do what it takes to reach his top level
I think he’s in denial about the need for a Change to his team such as another coach and possibly sports psychologist and needs to address his OCD habits that have increased time violations under the new rule and the resultant anxiety that has followed.
well said hawkeye…I would love to be wrong and see rafa turning things around but it’s hard to see that happening right now. even if he were to do so, i still think he should be taking new people on and freshening things up (and also trying to address the underlying issues). there have been too many periods of time when anxiety and nerves have got to him and it’s eroding his chances of winning slams – he only has a finite period of time afterall, that’s what’s so frustrating hearing the tick-tock, tick-tock of the clock and knowing that any other top player would be looking to make changes….(and rafa has less time than the other top players because of his susceptibility to injury)
didn’t Guga look great in his silver-blue suit the other day??!!
they’d be an incredibly handsome double act if nothing else….
It may be his downfall. I hope not but I don’t think he can recover his court success under the current regions with out addressing his latest problems in new ways.
Regimes
amy (at 4:19 pm),
—didn’t Guga look great in his silver-blue suit the other day??!!
they’d be an incredibly handsome double act if nothing else…—
==================
They have had fun together 🙂
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHEnn1nUcAA0Dmv.png
great photo augusta…
hawkeye, i fear you are right…that he will just keep evading the central issues…
I long to see rafa back to winning ways….
PS it’s probably very hard for him to initiate change inside the family based structures, he’s never had to do so in the past….late to learn….
Rafa has to keep thinking positively. He can’t fall apart over the losses and the drop in his ranking. His fans can worry and fret over it all, but Rafa does not have that luxury. He has to keep moving on and playing tennis. So he will try to put tough losses in perspective and take whatever positives there are and build on them.
I don’t know that Rafa thinks that he is actually doing well. I think that he has said that he is playing better than he did a few months ago. He believes that there is progress, that he is moving in the right direction.
Good to see Carlos Moya practicing with Rafa. I hope that Moya can help Rafa with any nerves or anxiety as he makes the transition to grass.
After all this time, could have easily happened earlier but what with age and all, “asperger’s” popped into my mind this morning. Not talking about Rafa, or other players, of course.
#ThatSAllFolks
Maybe not Rafa but Some-bot- it would explain a lot.
Chloro. What are you thinking of? You know how the tom tom works on the net:-(
within minutes it will morph from an idle musing by you to speculation on every tennis blog. Before you know it the twitter twits will be claiming it’s a fact. Nadine will have your guts for garters!!!!!!!
to repeat: not talking about rafa, nor any of the pro tennis players. 🙂 not at all talking about rafa or any of the pro tennis players.
as far as rafa and this condition… you couldn’t be further from the truth …
so, to repeat myself :-), when that word popped into my mind it was with someone in mind but not connected to any players
Apologies. My mistake – completely misread the innuendo ?? ?
Probably have now stirred up a right old hornet’s nest.
can I help reporting what stuff pops up in my lit-tel head? 🙂
I know some wonderful people who have asperger’s
so if anything this thought and the comment are about understanding
Add the following to the list:
– stupidly rigged draw;
– stupidest web-site;
– stupidly obvious pro-Fed bias.
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/06/tournament-director-says-court-quality-among-issues-french-open/55221/#.VXc_mk2JjIU
^^^^ All in vain.
The best laid plans of mice and men…….
And all in vain.
The best laid plans of mice and men………………..
I am glad that someone pointed out that whatever plans were concocted or devised, whatever scheming or planning was involved, it did all come to naught in the end.
That’s one of the best things to come out of RG this year! 🙂
This site has very good articles/blogs and some excellent posters. But Ricky should moderate chloro and hawkeye. I have been noticing this for months: they, egged on by periodic encouragement from another poster called nativenewyorker7, are constantly harassing Augusta, referring to her as a bot and now chloro and Hawkeye allege she has aspergers. This is very putting off for people like me who would like to come here to have discussions on tennis.
well said
What does a bot mean and what is aspergers? Never heard of either and in what reference is it used?
^^
*sigh*, you can’t make this up. This is what makes Tenngrand great!
@Sanju-isms
Sanju:
Bot is slang for boots.
Aspergers is asparagus miss-spelt.
No clue what this had to do with the French Open.
? ? ?
Never heard these words used in India. I can also use many words used in India which you will have no clue about. Will I call that as @RITB-isms. Or will I expect that you know it all?
Each country/continent has its specifics and individualities and there is no common base across countries. Let us respect that.
ritb
http://animated-gifs.org/wp-content/themes/frugal/graphics/cat/laughing-out-loud/ha-ha-good-one-dog-ag1.gif
@Sanju @ 8:17 am
There, you just provided a more succinct definition of Sanju-ism than I possibly could i.e. seeing offence where none is proffered.
You can call anything you like RITB-ism and I will not take offence, seriously. Why? Because to do so would be plain silly.
In your post of 6:38 am you asked what bot and aspergers mean. My post of 6:46 am was the equivalent of, SERIOUSLY? You cannot stick those words in google and press search? And, is that what @Mary’s post is REALLY about? And this is disrespecting you, how? And then you make it out like it’s the WHOLE of India that I have offended? Seriously? Just because you don’t know what a bot is and what Asperger’s means you want us to believe neither does all of India? And you are going to be offended for what………the whole of India???
I know some of you guys log onto the internet to vent off your frustrations from whatever life has thrown, or is throwing at you, but c’mon……………….
Chill, bro. Life is not that bad………..
Take a break RITB. You really need it. Get well soon. As usual and as is customary, you have taken this on a different tangent. And who gives a crap whether you insult whole of India or not, you mean nothing neither do your opinions.
And I cannot stoop down to your level where you try to pass a sarcastic dig and don’t even have the courtesy to apologize.
I asked a question, if you cant answer, back off , no need to poke your nose everywhere and pass judgements.
Aren’t you famous here anyway for making rascist insinuations most of the time and then bringing up the excuse that u black..we all have seen enough of it.
And on whether I can google or not, yes I can, I was at work and did not want to google such stuff from office because I am sure it was not something neat and clean.
@Sanju, you really are cross today, oh dear. You will get over whatever is troubling you. So, all you wanted was an apology from me? Why didn’t you say so? Here: @Sanju, I apologise for your hurt feelings. Hope that helps.
No need to explain to me your work situation love, not interested. I assume you are now no longer at work since you are busy on this site?? 😉
….and I am famous? From posting on Tenngrand? *doing the blushings* Lol……….
…at some point, you will realize I am not rising to your baiting, and calm down, that I am sure.
Nice day @Sanju.
nadline10 says: June 10, 2015 at 10:52 am
Some opportunities for a good laugh are too good to pass up……….seriously.
Get well soon lady. Will pray for your health.
I know you will, @Sanju, such is your devotion to me. I do care for you too.
lol..I think I have said this infinite times now, that people here should indulge in tennis discussions ! but, for those who have been here for long, know who are the posters who always stay away from ‘tennis discussions’ … nadline and augusta are not the innocent ones here lol …
It will be great if all this trash talk can be stopped and we all start discussing tennis more often! trust me, there is A LOT more that can be discussed.
vamosrafa says:
June 10, 2015 at 8:28 am
—for those who have been here for long, know who are the posters who always stay away from ‘tennis discussions’ … nadline and augusta are not the innocent ones here lol—
==========================
.
I don’t remember that I have written about something not related to tennis. I haven’t written about my personal life here.
But, I remember that you have never presented any factual proof when you have blamed me for something. I have replied you before that your accusations have been factless.
I don’t have time to present screen shot evidence to your court of law! And what accusations? they are facts.
Yes, you definitely thwart tennis discussions. Excessive rafa worshiping does that. Anything said even slightly critical about rafa even by rafa fans invites attacks from you,….that is not pleasant. Nobody has issues with you posting updates and pics about rafa…it is the other thing I mentioned.
Please do not come up with any screen shots or quotes …don’t want to drag this….. you don’t even have to reply.
I am here to talk about rafa’s tennis, his plans, his rivals , disucuss matchups, strategies and everything of that sort. So no more of these arguments please from both ends 🙂
vamosrafa says:
June 10, 2015 at 9:38 am
—1) I don’t have time to present screen shot evidence to your—
2)Excessive rafa worshiping does that–
3) Anything said even slightly critical about rafa even by rafa fans invites attacks from you.—
============================================
1) If you don’t have time then stop writing accusations. Simple!
2) I believe that I have the right to worship or not to worship whomever if I so wish.
3) Can you present any FACTUAL PROOF that I have attacked somebody.
ok you win. be happy
Yes vamosrafa..few people have ruined this thread by pretending as if they are mothers of Rafa and cant hear a word about their son. Rafa is unlucky to have so many mothers and grand moms who refuse to see reality. I am sure he would rather prefer someone realistic.
I am extremely pissed at nadline who always lives in the illusion that Rafa is perfect 100% all the time and today in particular RITB for speaking out of line.
“……………and today in particular RITB for speaking out of line.”
And what would be “in line” for you, @Sanju, please guide me. On second thoughts, ignore that. “Extremely pissed?” At posters on a tennis forum? Hmm, you really need to dial down on the rhetoric, @Sanju. You ‘re beginning to sound paranoid. Can’t be good for your blood pressure.
#MutualConcern
“few people have ruined this thread by pretending as if they are mothers of Rafa and cant hear a word about their son. Rafa is unlucky to have so many mothers and grand moms who refuse to see reality”
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH… mothers and grand moms ……good one sanju LOL…
Sanju says:
June 10, 2015 at 11:34 am,
—-few people have ruined this thread by pretending as if they are mothers of Rafa and cant hear a word about their son. Rafa is unlucky to have so many mothers and grand moms who refuse to see reality.
==============================
Sanju is pretending that he is Grandfather who is the only one who sees reality – due to his old age.
I laugh like vamosrafa: HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
please someone laugh at augusta’s post…. please?
Yes VR..Moms and grandmoms because thats exactly how they are behaving ..dare not say a word about their beloved son Rafa..else they may just claw your eyes out..and guess what I did not even refer to augusta by saying that. I was hinting at someone else and behold..she had to think it was for her.
Hope you continue posting @Mary. May not look like it at times but Rick’s on top of everything going on on his site…………..
No need.i stand corrected and apologize for offending anyone here.
Mary does have a point. Gussie takes it all in good part BUT I do worry it must be off-putting for newcomers to the site. And incomprehensible to casual readers.
Tenngrand would be the poorer without Gussie’s skills as picture editor and bringing us breaking news. Personally I relish Hawkeyes’ rapid fire repartee and Chloro’s erudite contributions but I do think perhaps they might be consigned to their own thread as a sub-section of the Rafa thread (Slanging matches) in the Social section.
how on earth can anyone get engaged in tennis discussions when it is impossible to say anything critical about rafa’s game or anything good about his opponents play?!!! you INSTANTLY find yourself tangled up in pointless arguments with either augusta or nadline! the next thing you see is screen shots from a post you made in 1960 and being called a detractor!
vamosrafa says:
June 10, 2015 at 8:52 am,
—in pointless arguments with either augusta or nadline!—
===========================
.
My arguments are based on facts, I cite sources.
yeah..mastery of out-of-context presentation of ‘evidence’ in the form of screen shots.
vamosrafa says:
June 10, 2015 at 10:34 am,
Facts are facts.
Postscript
IMO Chloro still holds the Olympic Gold Commentator Medal for his timely intervention as the Weather Reporter at the height of the unforgettable meltdown on TennisTalk.
BTW, you all keep saying how Rafa should hire a new coach and keep Toni…in the meantime the Serbian press is full of criticism for Nole’s loss in RG final saying that it is all Becker and Vajda’s fault who apparently had huge fight over which tactics to employ in the finals…they also speak about Boris making faces during the match as Novak did not listen what he suggested but rather went for Vajda’s recommendations…this is not good news for Novak…
natashao2013 says:
June 10, 2015 at 10:00 am,
—Boris making faces during the match as Novak did not listen what he suggested but rather went for Vajda’s recommendations—
=====================================
.
So, they were coaching Djoko during the match?!
http://www.funutilities.com/files/smileys/07/04/110.gif
how does it suggest they were coaching during the match? :s
‘Novak did not listen what he suggested but rather went for Vajda’s recommendations’
Both the coaches must have given their recommendations BEFORE the match
augusta, you beat me to it. Such double standards.
June 10, 2015 at 10:25 am,
You skipped: “Boris making faces during the match…”
Everyone who has watched Djoko’s matches knows that he is constantly looking towards his box. 😆
wow! thanks for sharing this natashao! I used to wonder how bad vajda might be feeling ever since becker has been hired as the lead coach! This sounds credible to me…
Obviously not good news for novak
I’m not one bit surprised. I’m just amazed BB survived as long as he has. It was always a puzzle what Djokovic thought he would bring to the party – he always looked more like the proverbial spare p**** at the party.
The only measurable difference was his improvement at the net. But even that deserted him in his hour of need on Sunday.
Nats: I thought I detected surreptitious coaching from his box. As the match progressed Djokovic was definitely looking at them long and hard more frequently.
So was Boris not making faces DURING the match? Don’t try and defend the indefensible.
he might have been making faces. In fact I saw his disgruntled face a gazillion times!
Imagine you are a coach. You discuss at length how will your player will play tomorrow. But during the match, he starts playing differently and obeys what the other coach said! OBVIOUSLY that will piss you off!
Conclusions that can be drawn from the excerpt: vajda and BB offered different suggestions, novak chose to act on vajda’s advice more and that pissed BB who was making faces. They MIGHT have been coaching during the match but I don’t know and neither does the excerpt say that!
Novak does look to his box a lot so i don’t know what exactly goes on!
VR you are being trolled by this site’s resident sienna.
hahaha…you make me laugh hawkeye 🙂
natashao2013 says: June 10, 2015 at 10:00 am
Hahaha! I said as much post the Final, that BB better beware, that Novak is not shy of making swift coaching changes after major disappointments and losing to Stan when everyone had already given the trophy was a MAJOR disappointment.
And then BB goes and enflames an already sensitive situation by talking publicly about Novak’s cold relationship with Fed, things that are considered locker-room stuff best left there. I think BB is skating on thin, thin ice…………
Is that just conjecture or speculation they indulging in or was there actually a fight? I mean will anyone from inner circle leak it out?
It does not help that Becker made a public statement about Novak and Fed not getting along though I think that is 100% true . I am keen to see Feds reaction and Novaks reaction when asked this.
vamosrafa, I know that in your eyes, Novak is God and can do no wrong, but he was clearly being coached according to this excerpt from nats post
“they also speak about Boris making faces during the match as Novak did not listen what he suggested but rather went for Vajda’s recommendations…this is not good news for Novak…”
Novak was being coached by Vajda and Becker but chose to listen to Vajda. That understands why he often berates his bench when he gets something wrong during a match.
LOL ..I believe in one God, that’s my religion. Rafa is my man 🙂
Keep your hatred aside and try to understand what i said. I said how does this excerpt show they were coaching him during the match??? where is it written?
Sure, he must have listen to vajda but what do you think players and coaches do before matches? eat popcorn? they discuss strategies! the coaches must have given strategies and novak was obeying vajda more?
That!
June 10, 2015 at 11:13 am.
—-Keep your hatred aside…—
=================================
.
‘Hatred’ is strong language according to somebodies here.
VR you are being trolled by this site’s Siena.
.
vamosrafa says:
June 10, 2015 at 8:28 am
—for those who have been here for long, know who are the posters who always stay away from ‘tennis discussions’ … nadline and augusta are not the innocent ones here lol—
—————————————
So talking about Rafa on tenngrand is not about tennis? You learn something everyday.
aww so innocent you are….yes, talking about rafa is certainly about tennis BUT talking about any other player and getting responses like ‘ you think he is God’ and then soon calling loyal rafa fans detractors and haters is WHAT IS NOT talking about tennis! do you understand now? you are the master of doing it! giving verdicts on who is a loyal rafa fan and who is not is NOT talking about tennis. Lesson learnt?
Loyalty is a virtue.
yeah…it is…blind worshiping is a menace though 😉
I am no less loyal than any rafa fan I have ever come across 🙂
We lost two great posters in deuce (a Murray fan who now finds Tennis X a more friendly and balanced site where she doesn’t feel under attack) and Lucky who was driven away because of being criticized for questioning Rafa’s game.
VR is the best tennis analyst on this site and he is being trolled with the attempt to similarly drive him away.
Soon this site will be left with nothing but the lowest common denominator and it’s ensuing social media reposts of everything Rafa.
June 10, 2015 at 3:57 pm,
—We lost two great posters in deuce (a Murray fan who now finds Tennis X a more friendly and balanced site where she doesn’t feel under attack) and Lucky who was driven away because of being criticized for questioning Rafa’s game.—-
==============================================
.
I remember that deucy couldn’t stand U.Toni.
As for me, I don’t know anything about her “questioning Rafa’s game.” I am just curious whether you have facts or you are (again) constructing an imaginary story. 😆
June 10, 2015 at 3:57 pm,
—VR is the best tennis analyst on this site and he is being trolled with the attempt to similarly drive him away—
=============================================
Really? I’m curious what’s the reason HE is writing factless accusations about other posters.
Not what I said. You can’t read.
For someone who lied about caring what I say, you sure put in a lot of effort responding to just about everything I say.
June 10, 2015 at 3:57 pm,
—Soon this site will be left with nothing but the lowest common denominator and it’s ensuing social media reposts of everything Rafa—
=====================================
.
No doubt you have made huge efforts to suppress information about Rafa: you have tried hard to sabotage the Rafa Nadal page. 😆
You’ve done a much better job doing that than I ever could.
Besides, I thought you didn’t CARE what I said. Apparently not the case. And yet you turn around to accuse others of lies and made up stories. Curious behaviour.
@hawkeye, thank you for your kind words. Your insights about tennis are also very good . You certainly understand the game really well and often the statistics and facts you present are very enlightening.
If someone here is so concerned, she should look for evidence herself. Luckystar (a fantastic poster with soooo much knowledge and understanding) was driven away after an argument with RITB I think? I think so. She was SIMPLY being critical of the way rafa played a certain match!
Hawkeye, I don’t have the intentions to leave but point holds…a lot of good fans don’t feel comfortable here because of the blind worshiping and attacks.
TBH I did not thing about coaching issue when I read this article…I do know that Novak looks at his box quite a lot during the matches but the commentator always says it’s for gaining support /cheering from his box rather than asking for instructions…however, what I know is that the instructions for tactics to be employed came before the match although the article itself implies that Novak made a decision himself during the match to adopt a rather defensive style waiting for Wawa to make UEs whereas Boris apparently insisted on aggressiveness…
I guess we will never know…I did not watch the whole match so I would not know if Novak was being coached but I honestly doubt it…
natashao2013 says:
June 10, 2015 at 10:56 am,
—Novak looks at his box quite a lot during the matches but the commentator always says it’s for gaining support /cheering from his box rather than asking for instructions—
==========================================
.
Interesting. When U.Toni says only ‘Vamos!’, then the (same?!) commentators say that it’s coaching!
so those commentators are stupid! name them so that I know what their true standards are…. anyway, it is better for umpires to decide this. They have the hottest seat to catch any kind of coaching 🙂 I guess it goes on in matches but the top guys are usually clean in this regard
June 10, 2015 at 11:33 am,
—-so those commentators are stupid! name them so that I know what their true standards are—
============================
Haven’t you ever heard that U.Toni has been accused of on-court coaching??
@natashao,
Good post! Looking at your team’x box does not even imply any coaching! I am sure a lot of people just have a habit of doing it! Looking for encouragenment and support etc..rafa looks at his box a lot and Toni is vamos-ing to encourage him!
Whether novak got any advice I DO NOT KNOW. but was BB making faces? YES! but that is not linked to on-court coaching!
I hope augusta can now provide an ‘factual evidence’ for this LOL
June 10, 2015 at 11:40 am,
—I hope augusta can now provide an ‘factual evidence’ for this—
===========================
.
The ATP Rulebook, page 166
l) Coaching and Coaches
i) Players shall not receive coaching during a tournament match. Communications of any kind, audible or VISIBLE, between a player and a coach may be construed as coaching.
vamosrafa,
I found your reply to my question yesterday some way back in the thread…but now I can’t remember where I left my reply to see what, if anything, you said!!
if that makes sense!…can you let me know?
thanks!!
I can’t get the control+f thing to work today……
vamosrafa,
ok have found my response to your response yesterday further up the thread.
i was looking to see if you had replied to that but as you haven’t that’s fine!
I am a bit like Coleridge’s ancient mariner going on about this topic anyway..!
hahaha no no , I will definitely reply to that post 🙂 sorry for the delay
vamosrafa,
I meant to ask you the other day what you thought about rafa choosing to receive serve against novak. TBH my heart sank when I saw this, thinking that even if rafa started well this would mean that when things got tough at the end of the set and he was trying to hold to stay in it he would get broken. i know that rafa likes to receive but this was a problem against nole in 2011 when rafa was forced to change his patterns and serve first – remember the first set at wimby in ’11 – you knew rafa was going to get broken. it’s fine for him to receive serve against nole when he’s back to winning ways but when his confidence is low i don’t think it’s a great idea..all through the first 2 sets against novak you felt that serving second was a big handicap for him. i was a bit disappointed that rafa and toni didn’t foresee this…..
at least if he’s serving first and get’s broken he’s got a chance to get back on serve and isn’t having to save set points…
Agree..I never understand why he chooses to receive at times when he wins the toss.
I think you have made a very valid point. I was also saying this to my brother while watching the match that rafa gets himself in trouble by opting to receive! May be he was thinking it was RG and he could control things better. The strategy has worked for rafa in the past but yes when low on confidence, it is dangerous! I hope serves first on grass…The wimbledon 2011 example is perfect. He was 30-0 up and suddenly missed two routine forehands ! it was 30-30 and then novak took advantage.
Toni and rafa need to smart choices now. I don’t think he will be consulting anyone else so it is up to them .
@sanju, rafa can have a stronger second half. His level of tennis has gradually improved since AO and there has been progress. The progress has not been fast but as rafa said, his level was better by the time of RG. He played a very bad match but overall things have gotten better. With no pressure, and with some favors from draws, he can do better.
yeah, but gotta say that both these examples show how slow they are to adjust tactics at a very fundamental level. this ex great as new coach i keep talking about would have foreseen that one and sorted it out!
just getting that one in under the radar!
Rafa always chooses to receive when he wins the toss. The only time Rafa serves first is when his opponent wins the toss and puts him in to serve because they all know he doesn’t like to. He was asked once in the blogs he used to do and he said he likes to settle down before serving and if he breaks his opponent in their first service game then he is more at an advantage.
no, he was chosen to serve first on some occasions but that has happened quite rarely.
yeah i know but that just doesn’t work against nole when rafa’s confidence is low does it?…..that’s why after a long while they made the shift in 2011 and rafa started to serve first…but it took them a long long time….
then he shifted back when he started beating nole again….
Choosing to receive first for Rafa makes sense to me given he is a slow starter, unlike say Djokovic who is always quick off the blocks. Doesn’t want to risk getting broken first game of the match when he is still warming up. I have always likened Rafa to a diesel engine: takes time to warm up.
No, what? Isn’t that what I said that he only serves first when his opponents elect to receive if they win the toss?
amy: I’ve always assumed electing to receive when he’s won the toss is one of his superstitions dating back to RG 2005 I recall people I was next to at the SF questioning why he chose to receive. He took Fed completely by surprise, won the first point, then the set and finally the match. I think it is another example of his need to stick to rituals. I don’t know if he does it 100% of the time, but it’s certainly most of the time.
ed makes sense here….and rafa feels more ‘colm’ when he receives first. He feels if there any nerves , he can use the first game to get rid of them ! He himself said this once…
sanju, is fine when his game is really on fire. but when he’s got problems it creates problems. remember against novak in 2011 it took them ages to adjust to this until rafa started to serve first. wimby 2011 in the first set is a prime example of this with rafa starting well and then utterly imploding when serving at 4-5 down to hold. you could feel that it was going to happen!!
now for this i criticise toni, he’s the coach, he should have foreseen this and not waited so long to make the adjustment.
Call me optimistic but I feel he will do much better in second half than first half. I really feel that getting the monkey off the back will loosen him up and the pressure of having no points to defend will ease off the pressure. I think whatever happened, happened for the best.
I meant luxury of having no points to defend
gonna reply to myself here!!
anyone remember how sebastian smashed his fist down when rafa made those mistakes at 4-5 in that first set at that wimby to give away the set?!
i remember thinking ‘how is that going to help rafa’! have never seen poppa nadal behave like that….!
I do remember that. Still they are only human, he was just reacting out of frustration.. At least the Nadals don’t shout ‘out’ during a match.
amy says:
June 10, 2015 at 12:00 pm,
—anyone remember how sebastian smashed his fist down when rafa made…
have never seen poppa nadal behave like that….!—
======================
Fedfans don’t let forget it. They have posted a clip a zillion times (not here).
Papa Nadal and Rafa also behave (almost) ‘like that’ while watching football.
🙂
didn’t mean it as a criticism, just observation…
just so unusual for sebastian to show his frustration in that way…….have to say i was not exactly jumping for joy when i saw rafa chuck that set away…..!
amy ( at 12:24 pm),
I add to my post (at 12:20 pm):
https://twitter.com/littlemissnadal/status/597132946840100865
Sebastian does “suffer” when his son is playing, especially at important matches. Djokovic’s father also does. The only one who appears to keep it together during his son’s matches if Fed’s Dad.
Feds wife more than makes up for his cool as cucumber dad. During Wimby 2008, there was 1 man in Feds box sitting right next to Mirka, he was extremely aggressive in his stance.
However for Rafa, apart from his dad who is also usually cool, rest of his entourage is cool. Mom and sis and gf are always quiet and mellowed.
vamosrafa, what I’m saying is, some players who would normally elect to serve when they win the toss sometimes put Rafa in to serve because they know he feels nervous at the start of the match.
no. There have been occasions when rafa chose to serve himself after winning the toss.
Bogdan Obradovic attacks Boris Becker: ´He negatively influenced Roland Garros final!´
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Bogdan-Obradovic-attacks-Boris-Becker-He-negatively-influenced-Roland-Garros-final-articolo24396.html
So its all Beckers fault now..lol..Stan had no role to play neither did Nole 🙂
“Obradovic also added, “Novak has already too many people in his team. For this once, I asked him why not add a teacher of saxophone, since it is a tool they like. Too many things were said to Nole, and this affected him. They must choose.””
Priceless……..ROTFL
hahahah this guy is ridiculous…’novak played at half speed’ HAHAHAHAHAHA
June 10, 2015 at 12:56 pm,
The article: ¤¤ His team showed negative energy. It’s clear that affected the result of the match. First thing I didn’t like the face of Boris Becker from which transpired disappointment and disinterest. Boris didn’t react well and has not given the right support to Djokovic. Knowing Novak, I realized that on the court sometimes it requires a gesture to motivate yourself. The German didn’t do so well this time. It was evident.” ¤¤
So, Djoko needs BB’s gestures during the match! If it’s not on-court coaching then what it is.
present ‘factual evidence’ ;p Don’t draw these inferences
Gestures are often given to motivate! what is so fishy?
June 10, 2015 at 1:43 pm
—Gestures are often given to motivate! what is so fishy?—
===================================================
In the article below: Nick Bollettieri talks about his signals and Rafa received an official warning because U.Toni shouted ‘Vamos’. It’s called here ‘illegal coaching’.
The Telegraph, 27 Jun 2010: ¤¤ Wimbledon 2010: Rafael Nadal’s uncle at centre of illegal coaching row.
The world No1 has DENIED the umpire’s claim that he received coaching during his victory over Philipp Petzschner, but the incident has opened up a debate on the subject.
One of the leading coaches, Nick Bollettieri, has admitted to having advised his players in the past by using the SIGNALS of touching his sunglasses, rubbing his nose, or by shouting out code words, and that “anyone in tennis who doesn’t think it happens should open their eyes and ears”.
Illegal coaching was being discussed at the All England Club over the weekend after Rafael Nadal, the world No 1 and 2008 Wimbledon champion, received an official warning from the umpire for supposedly receiving advice from his uncle Toni during his five-setter against Philipp Petzschner, of Germany.
Anyone who appears on Centre Court is meant to be self-reliant, to be able to think for themselves on the grass, and Nadal was so annoyed by the accusations that he said he intended to speak with a supervisor.
“Toni wasn’t giving me any tips, he was only SUPPORTING me,” Nadal said. “Sometimes in the past Toni would talk, maybe too much, and the referee or the umpire would give me advice and, if it continued, a warning, but he didn’t talk too much this time in my opinion. I told the umpire that we will be talking to the supervisor and this we will be doing.”
Nadal’s opponent also said that he had not heard any coaching, just a few cries of “VAMOS” from Toni. It was not the first time, though, that Toni has been accused of passing on some ENCOURAGEMENT to his nephew, as during the final of the 2006 Rome tournament, Roger Federer said he had caught him at it. ¤¤
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rafaelnadal/7857620/Wimbledon-2010-Rafael-Nadals-uncle-at-centre-of-illegal-coaching-row.html
so what? I said ‘gestures are OFTEN given to motivate’ ! yes, they are! sometimes, coaches can absolutely use them to do some coaching. There is nothing new you have told us. Where is your factual evidence about the case in hand though?!!!
June 10, 2015 at 6:08 pm
—I said ‘gestures are OFTEN given to motivate’ ! yes, they are! sometimes, coaches can absolutely use them to do some coaching. There is nothing new you have told us. Where is your factual evidence about the case in hand though?!!!—
======================================================
.
So, you (& “us” = Bogdan Obradovic? ) are sure that coaches can absolutely use gestures to do some illegal (!) coaching during the match! That’s really something new to me!
What evidences about what do you want??? I quoted this in my post (on June 10, 2015 at 1:26 pm):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHNSsL3UgAA96R0.png
You can never be sure..It maybe that Djokovic made his Davis Cup captain release these bytes 🙂
Each year the European clay swing and defending his RG crown takes an increasingly greater toll on Rafa. In terms of physical, mental and emotional stamina.
It’s now five years since he achieved the back to back channel slam. From now even with two weeks between RG and Wimby I think it’s urealistic to hope for a repeat of that achievement.
I should’ve said
‘unrealistic to hope for a repeat of that achievement.in future years’.
Anyone heard from poor ol’ Mats Wilander post RG final? Would love to hear his take given his ridiculous pre-final comments that Djokovic was now the best clay-courter of all time.
^^^ In his den licking his wounds and wiping the egg off his face 🙂
Poor Bodo’s still seething. I don’t get it, he should be happy that Rafa is now “rolling back downhill” as he says it and stop obsessing about him!
http://espn.go.com/tennis/french15/story/_/id/13032744/french-open-big-four-take-backseat-stan-wawrinka
“Remember what tennis was like back in the day of the dreaded “clay-court expert,” and those mind-numbing, metronomic 55-shot rallies? It sure is different now.
………..By contrast, Nadal’s chance to catch Federer (the Swiss has 17 major singles titles, Nadal owns 14) took a major blow when he lost to Wawrinka in the Australian Open final of 2014, and they dimmed even further now that the Spaniard has failed to defend his Roland Garros title.”
The difference between 14 and 17 is not that much, really. I wish people like Bodo would just pipe down and “enjoy” Rafa’s so-called demise.
Gotta give it to Bodo, he makes no attempt at appearing impartial.
I always get the feeling reading Bodo that he is quite sure of being right, quite happy with himself, thank-you-very-much
gotta love the experts 🙂
I really think ESPN ought to put a disclaimer under his posts: the views expressed by Mr. Bodo do not in any way reflect our stance on the issues he writes about.
There are so many other tennis pundits who are pro-Fed but they are not as crass in their fandom as Mr. Bodo.
mary,
Thank you for your post. I hope you continue to read TT and continue to post.
Mostly hawkeye and I post about tennis.
We also have a well-tuned BS detector, as do many (all) regular and less regular posters here. There is a reason for calling things out once in a while. The constant pervasive attacks on anyone and anything not worded as 100% ultra-devotion were getting and are still tiresome. Not just tiresome but disruptive of the flow of discussions here and of the otherwise very pleasant (and entirely rare in the internet of tennis fan sites) mood we have here at tenngrand. It WOULD be nicer — perhaps this is just never going to happen — if we could discuss tennis without constantly being judged and pointed at irrationally about anything mentioned that is not fanatically 100% perceived-to-be pro rafa.
On the other hand, perhaps hawkeye tries to stop it it too often and perhaps with too much sarcasm? Perhaps I too try to stop it too often?
In fact that is more or less where I was going with the asperger post. As I posted yesterday, Perhaps it didn’t come across this way but I posted that observation in the name of _understanding_. Asperger? Could be way off base. But either way looking for understanding. Perhaps understanding will help this situation.
Just as we are looking here to understand the much harder time Rafa is having with confidence this year than before. Is it all just coming back from 2014 times away from the game and the illnesses and injuries? Seems like there is more to it. Does he have a little anxiety or is it at a level of an actual disorder? Does he have some OCD like behaviour only or is it at a level of an actual disorder in his case? Could toni and everyone else in his team look for new approaches / people / pro help that this particular team is not likely to look for while other teams would? Millions of fans are distraught at what is happening, sponsors and tournament owners would have been happier (stand to make more income) if rafa found solutions to this, especially as rafa is one of the main ingredients in the popularity of the sport today and of its attendance, physical and electronic, at specific tournaments, Rafa is being torn (I think, am pretty sure) between his huge commitments to fans and sponsors and to his honour, between his passion for winning and desire to go further still, and between what deeper problems plague him (not to even mention frequent injuries — this year, as far as we know, touch wood, none yet).
Finally, ricky, I will tone down the frequency and content of replies to posts I find — sorry but this is the truth — troll-like and constantly aggressive behavior. For yourself, I don’t recall you ever writing anything here on either ‘side’, so-to-speak. Now that you have, I trust you would look at these back-and-forth posts from ‘both’ sides and moderate or comment accordingly.
peace, everyone
Mary,
You seem to be new to this site. I would appreciate it very much if you would take into account context when you criticize other posters. Your view seems to be a bit one-sided. There is more to this than your brief comment would indicate.
Sometimes humor is a response to a situation that otherwise would seem intolerable. The incessant hero worship for Rafa and the subsequent intolerance for any differing opinions or thoughts, is a concern.
I try to talk about tennis. It’s my passion. But there are times when personal attacks on my character and that of others, is just too much. I don’t mind anyone disagreeing with me as long as they don’t make it an attack on me personally.
chloro
All I wanted to say is that your last paragraph accurately sums up my feelings. I second your thoughts.
June 10, 2015 at 1:43 pm,
–I will tone down the frequency and content of replies…—
======================================
.
Oh! A “troll-like and constantly aggressive behavior” will tone down the frequency and content of his posts! At least that’s some progress.
Thank you, Mary!
case in point, as usual, predictably 🙂
It would AWESOMELY refreshing if we could read instead a heart-felt cogent reply in the manner that good dialogues are made of. Even a semblance of apology just in case one was perhaps appropriate. (My apology is already in my post above.) But there it is.
#tennis
stop smashing your head to the wall , chloro … 😉
Ditto.
That response perfectly illustrates the problem some of us are having here. It takes more than one person to start a fight and more than one person to restore a measure of peace.
However, when some do not take responsibility for their actions and their part in instigating and posting antagonistic comments, then nothing can be resolved. Everyone has to want to get along and come here in good faith.
^ +1
Must say, Wawa looks kinda good looking here:
http://media.fyre.co/1TM5cnrqTemPR1RV8CM9_10511274_10153389575774920_7734713731938949175_n.png
Chloro,
Don’t hold your breath! 🙂
Oh Stan………wonder who that tongue was aimed at? Wilander?
http://media.fyre.co/NV7YZSOKQuOuSymgt0uQ_741AD21C-71E8-4BD7-8446-E6D681DD8773_zpspomgg6rp.jpg
For what it’s worth, I sniggered at BB’s appointment to Novak’s team when it was first announced. He has proved my skepticism wrong in my opinion because I have seen visible improvements to Novak’s game since BB’s appointment.
– Killer drop shots, which he used effectively in the build-up to RG and against Rafa;
– Overhead smash, marked improvement;
– Volleying, marked improvement. Not yet as good as Rafa’s but improved nonetheless.
Understandable for there to be frustration in Novak’s camp but hard to see how Novak’s loss can be dumped on BB alone.
I am still sceptical of Becker’s input and contribution to Mark 3 Djokovic. It strikes me BB has used the last 18th months to feather his own nest, sometimes shamelessly.
I rather think he might be persona non gratis at the All England Club after his indiscreet comments and speculation on the relationship between Djokovic and Federer.
http://www.amazon.com/Boris-Beckers-Wimbledon-career-England-ebook/dp/B00VWYVD6S/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1433950257&sr=1-1&keywords=boris+becker%27s+wimbledon
I’m surprised the Djokovic camp didn’t get him to sign a Confidentiality Agreement to prevent the gossip BB will no doubt peddle.
Speculation about coaching from the box often swirls around. I’m quite sure coded signals disguised as normal gestures do happen e.g ear scratching, blowing noses, removing sunglasses, jumping up and down, the number of fist pumps,
the way a hand is clenched etc could all be instructions. Though if body language is being used to transmit information it can’t be proved so it’s useless trying to make an accusation stick. Anyway on court coaching is allowed for the women and the ITF allow Davis Cup team captains to come on court during changeovers.
#Inconsistency
https://twitter.com/SwissMinipeople/status/607513578636222464/photo/1
VR please remain calm and do not feed the troll
vamosrafa says:
June 10, 2015 at 11:30 am
yeah…it is…blind worshiping is a menace though 😉
I am no less loyal than any rafa fan I have ever come across 🙂
_________________________________
I’m glad you put the smile icon because nothing could be further from the truth.
On another subject. Novak doesn’t like Rafa either. Think of his reaction when Rafa accidently hit him with the ball in Montreal.
https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=C211GB384D20150217&p=nadal+hits+Djokovic+with+ball+in+montreal
VR be calm and don’t feed the troll.
I think Novak respects Rafa enough. That particular match, they sorted things out at the net intermediately post the match. Had there been bad blood, it would have lingered on.
Novak reacted under pressure there as he thought he would eat Rafa for dinner that day and Rafa was just not giving in :-). I loved that match..excellent quality.
Agree with sanju. I was at that match and all was water under the bridge but trolls are masters of taking their cherry picked facts out of context to fit their own illusions of reality
@nadline, no, sorry. you don’t get to win the loyalty contest . But you are a very strong contender for being the best hater of rafa’s rivals (who are shown massive respect by rafa)
some of nadline’s gems when she is talking about tennis:
– dimitrov has the best SHBH on the tour
– there is nothing special about djokovic’s ROS
– djokovic relies on opponents’ mistakes, he has no weapons of his own
*clap clap clap* 😉
Nadline10 is as loyal as sienna
June 10, 2015 at 6:51 pm,
If somebody’s opinion differs from vamosrafa’s opinion, then this somebody gets labeled a “hater” by vamosrafa! Nothing new or something new?
Novak is a saint.
I agree with Sanju and Hawkeye. Novak was upset with Rafa initially, no question about it. But they did straighten in all out after the match and said so.
Rafa is a good and decent person. He understood why Novak was unhappy about it. Nobody likes getting hit in the face with a ball in the heat of competition. But Novak calmed down and realized it was not intentional..
They are two professional tennis players. They are not children!
Oh yes for sure! 🙂
I am very eager to see that if Rafa posts a big turnaround..what tune will these so called experts sing? I mean it must be stiffling to have an egg laid on your face and swallow your own rubbish.
I hope we will see such a turnaround again. I am not entirely convinced we will but hope to be proven wrong. Obviously Rafa has done more than enough already in his career. There were times I thought his career was almost over, sincerely, to my regret. and the first one of those was years ago. So I say, among other things, thank you to the success of those injections (and extended time off) that have already prolonged Rafa’s career by years, beyond any normal expectations.
As for the egg… we have witnessed this scenario a number of times over the years. I don’t recall any one expert addressing the egg on her or his face in public, i.e. having the decency to write about it an open, truthful way, or simply to write about it.
For example, imagine Bodo writing in one of those scenarios something like this:
Start of quote
Prior to the last tournament ( or: Rafa comeback after injury ) I wrote in such and such articles with a bias and lack of grounding in reality the following views: such and such.
Now I must acknowledge that my bias stemmed from such and such but was ultimately not-called for, rather pronounced, and definitely to the standards my profession is (supposed to be) held to.
I am human.
Perhaps my readers will bear in mind that such and such (e.g. I have been overly blinded by ten years of hero worship of one mere mortal from a certain canton in Switzerland, and furthermore there are material advantages to certain industries for most of us experts and writers to uphold said myth, whether or not we personally actually believe it.)
It will be difficult henceforth to try and stay clear of such extremes of bias but I will
embrace that difficulty as a writer aspiring once again at professionalism. It will at the same time be easier too: not to have to bend facts, invent, and cherry pick to such an extent.
To be this transparent and vulnerable is not easy, trust me. But I was told it is also one of the most courageous things to do. And now that I have written this and decided to publish it, I do feel better. Lighter. Truer. More honorable. And if I am allowed to make this qualification myself about myself: a mensch.
Yours Truly,
Peter Bodo
End of quote
Wait a minute! I was wrong in my comment @ 5:11 pm!
It’s Rafa who is the saint! Absolutely! Forget about Novak! 🙂
loro says:
June 10, 2015 at 5:21 pm
“As for the egg…”
————————————————
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Health/ht_Novak_Djokovic_nt_110830_wmain.jpg
I thought you were talking about Novak’s secret weapon. 🙂
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/novak-djokovic-pressurized-cvac-space-egg-helped-climb/story?id=14406674
it’s beautiful, wonderful how we are all staying on subject
when it suits
green-eyed
m
It’s the return of the egg! 🙂
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