It will be the the 34th meeting between Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal when two friendly rivals battle for the Basel title on Sunday. They have not faced each other at a tournament this small since Dubai in 2006.
On the day after Halloween, fans at the Swiss Indoors Basel will be getting an extra-special treat. After all, it is not every day that the tennis world witnesses Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal square off at a 500-point event.
In fact, the last time Federer and Nadal faced each other at a tournament of this level was way back in 2006 in the Dubai title match. That remains their only previous encounter to date outside of a Grand Slam, Masters 1000, or year-end championship.
Heading into Sunday’s showdown, the overall head-to-head series stands at 23-10 in favor of Nadal. The Spaniard has won five in a row dating back to the start of the 2013 season. Federer’s last victory over his nemesis came in 2012 Indian Wells semifinals via a 6-3, 6-4 decision. Even on hard courts, Nadal is 9-6 lifetime against the Swiss and he has won their last four such meetings. Federer does, however, have one edge in their past history: he is 4-1 at Nadal’s expense on indoor hard courts.
The 34-year-old not only has the benefit of playing indoors for this one, but also at home in the friendly confines of Switzerland. Federer is an awesome 60-9 lifetime at this tournament, has won it six times, and has now reached the title match in 10 consecutive appearances. The 17-time major champion has advanced so far this week by taking out Mikhail Kukushkin, Philipp Kohlschreiber, David Goffin, and Jack Sock–surrendering sets to Kohlschreiber and Goffin along the way.
Nadal has gone the distance three times already and came close to doing the same–if not losing altogether–in his semifinal versus Richard Gasquet. The third seed, who had previously outlasted Lukas Rosol, Grigor Dimitrov, and Marin Cilic, recovered from a break down in the first set and survived an extremely close second to beat Gasquet 6-4, 7-6(7).
“It’s been a very special week for me,” said Nadal, who added that he felt good after a brief knee-injury scare at 3-1 in the opening set on Saturday.
Nearing the end of what has been a disappointing year by his standards, Nadal is suddenly picking up the pace during what is traditionally by far his worst stretch of any season. The former world No. 1 reached the Beijing final and the Shanghai semis prior to this impressive Basel performance. Since blowing a two-set lead against Fabio Fognini at the U.S. Open, Nadal boasts a 12-2 record.
“It’s definitely a bit of a dream final,” Federer assured. “It’s never quite happened (in Basel). That it’s me against Rafa towards the back end of our careers is nice for the tournament, great for the Swiss fans–who’ve never seen this matchup on Swiss grounds.”
“I have played against Roger hundreds of times around the world,” Nadal commented. “I never played at his home (Switzerland), and tomorrow is a chance.”
It’s also a great opportunity for Federer, but at this point it his hard to like his chances in this particular matchup under any circumstances. This summer, of course, is when an on-fire Federer would have been a heavy favorite over Nadal. Fast forward a few months and Federer’s form–and perhaps motivation–has dipped considerably. He is no longer playing the kind of tennis that can blow his opponent of the court in two quick sets. Nadal, who would have an obvious mental edge in any long three-setter, should be able to capitalize.
Pick: Nadal in 3
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discuss
i like federer more as a fan but i can not turn down +250 on Nadal especially 1) Federer is in lower than usual form, 2) Nadal won their last 5 meetings, 3) Nadal i think is more hungry for a title than Federer. +250 FTW
however the only thing that scares me is Nadals possible knee problem. I know he seems like he is fine in the gasquet match but these sports injuries can cause problems hours after they occur. I had a separated shoulder that didnt affect me until 3 hours later and then i was like a handicap in pain not able to use my arm.
anyone who is betting real money should avoid this match like THE PLAGUE
+250 is amazing value
No.
+250 is unavoidable
Yep
Whatever happened in the preceding rounds to the final is irrelevant to the match. They were playing very different players. Rafa will need to serve well and Roger will need to shank less.
lol!!!! I think Rafa has been serving quite well…..his return game is better than I can remember although on important points he seems too impatient, but otherwise based on where Rafa has come from in almost two years he is making great progress, and for the first time in more months i can remember, I think this match is Rafa’s to lose. I dont think Fed and his fans are happy to be playing Rafa at all but I think Rafa and his fans are quite looking forward to it!! Vamos Rafa, you can sooooooooooooo do this!!! This trophy is YOURS!!!!
Rafa’s level to beat Roger in the 23 matches he has won has been much higher than it is today.
Rafa is 1-4 indoors with his lone win in 2013 when Rafa was at his best and Fed was at a career low.
Unfortunately, that is not the case at the moment.
If Federer loses under these circumstances, it will be a massive surprise.
Sure Ricky even emphatically said they wouldn’t even meet, so you can’t go by what he thinks.
This one is all too easy to call.
So far Rafa has been playing mental minions that choke under the slightest pressure (I refer you to Gasket’s two double faults when serving for the second set as Exhibit A).
He won’t be able to rely on that against Federer.
Too many unforced errors (counted or not) will be Rafa’s undoing.
This is Rafa’s to lose I agree. And he will. Between the ears.
Fed in two.
#NID
Rafa hasn’t been playing mental minions! Since when? Oh and who has Fed played so far? Rafa has had the kind of draw that would be considered a nightmare under any circumstances. Remember, he was slated to meet Stan until he lost to Karlovic. Rosol, Dimi and Cilic have all been tough match ups for Rafa even when he was playing well because they have the kind of game to present a challenge. This court only gives them that more of an advantage. Rafa did quite well to beat all of them and show some of his best tennis this year.
Now that may not be saying much considering how Rafa has played all year, but it’s still an indication that he’s on the way back and showing signs of his old self. He’s shown a good deal of resilience, but most important of all to me is that his will to win has returned. This is Rafa’s greatest strength, the reason why he has won matches that on paper, he should have lost. That is something that Fed has never been able to counter successfully because Rafa has a way of imposing himself in their matches.
It’s true that this is Basel where Fed has been King in his home town. Also, Fed would have the advantage on this surface. But that doesn’t mean he is a sure bet to win.
I cannot see any way that Rafa will lose this in straight sets. He’s been fighting too hard this week. He won’t go away easily. Not this time.
Amen to that, brother!!!
@NNY,
The point regarding rafa’s will to win , is very important here. A new kind of energy seems to be driving rafa now. He was so subdued throughout 2015 but now he is fighting like a lion. I hope this can be the deciding factor tomorrow!
Gasket and Dimitwit are known for choking. Cilic and Rosol have a combined tennis IQ of an overclocked tennis ball machine.
I agree with absolutely everything except for your first and third last sentence.
So that’s not too bad for sure, no?
For once I agree with hawkeye. Must be Halloween or something.
“third last”?
do you struggle with doing the English?
Who was the third last player to be No. 1?
Besides aren’t you the one who wrote they wouldn’t meet in the final?
Sounds like you’re the one struggling with the English to me.
“third last” is not a correct phrase, so I have no idea what sentence you are talking about
Ricky under your site rules, you broke Rule I so you should state that you are exempt.
While third last may not be a correct phrase, you are being disingenuous when you claim not to know what sentence I am talking about.
i assume you mean the last sentence for the third paragraph from the bottom. Not sure how you can disagree with that (or any other sentence in the preview–seeing as it is not a blog and I did not express any opinions that were up for debate until the actual pick).
All this over a missed hyphen. But now at least I know what got you all hot and bothered.
I trust the CBC and Ottawa Citizen (and myself) over a tennis blogger when it comes to the English language:
“They replaced the two-person desks with longer desks shared by five to seven MPs. In the second-last row, to save space, the regular seats were replaced by drop-down theatre seating.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-house-of-commons-seating-1.3272354
From a raucous hockey arena in southern Ontario to an oceanside Nunavut lookout, Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau spent the second-last week of the campaign staying carefully within the lines of his upbeat strategy.
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/justin-trudeau-rides-sunny-strategy-in-second-last-week-of-campaign
a hyphen would be in incorrect too haha
“i assume you mean the last sentence for the third paragraph from the bottom.”
No, for that I would have said “the last sentence in the third-last paragraph. ”
But you already knew that.
Ricky Dimon says:
October 28, 2015 at 11:31 pm
he wont play Fed
Not sure what “wont” means in this context. In the English language, it usually means become accustomed.
In hindsight, I’m now guessing you meant “will”. Ok good.
Alright enough of this before I’m banned again.
And I wasn’t referring to your blog. Your blog was flawlessly perfect as usual.
I was responding to nny’s response to mine.
Nope. A hyphen is correct.
Hyphen? We talkin’ ’bout hyphen. Hyphen.
Tiebreaker would be incorrect too haha.
Rafa has a number of firsts and record, but i have to say, that for someone with so many accomplishments and a H2H with the top 30 players than no player in history can even dream of, he is certainly ALWAYS the underdog in ANY match that he plays!!! Smh….Rafa for the win in three!!! Lets hope Mr Shankalot can stop peeing himself when Rafa starts to pile on the pressure!!
Rafa had quite a few shanklings himself today ICYMI.
4th-last sentence LOL. Specifically,
“I cannot see any way that Rafa will lose this in straight sets.”
I can.
I can 2
Rafa in two sets. No surprise and expected, that Roger will have 30 to 40 UE in the match.
this
No. There is no precident indoors against an out of form Rafa.
Rafa is not out of form now. In 2013 an in form Rafa made the final of Beijing, SF of Shanghai, lost poorly to Novak and Delpo respectively. Rafa in 2015 has not done any worse than in 2013 at both places. He reaches an indoor HC final now, when was the last time he did that? Its still 2013, at WTF, and thats one of his best years.
The last few times Fed beat Rafa on indoor HCs (all at YEC or WTF) Fed was in top form and playing baseline tennis, and the last time he won was in 2011! This is the first time a net rushing Fed is meeting Rafa on indoor courts and Fed isnt in top form unlike in the past. I dont see Fed having any advantage over Rafa, its 50-50 imo.
I stopped after your first sentence as I completely disagree with your premise.
An in form Rafa wouldn’t have lost 62 62 in any final to Djokovic.
Its OK to disagree. If you think an out of form Rafa could reach three SFs including two finals on the HCs, by all means think so …
Seems like a passive aggressive echo.
Its ok that you disagree; if you think an out of form Rafa could reach two finals and one SF on the HCs during this part of the season, then by all means think so.
Phew that’s a relief. I was worried I wouldn’t get your permission.
Also, if hawkeye thinks an in form Roger can lose to Albert Ramos that’s his privilege.
Straw man argument. You’re welcome.
There’s no need for sarcasm, hawkeye.
But yet there’s need for passive aggression like giving me permission. Epic.
If you want to view it as giving you permission then I’ve nothing to say.
I said Rafa is not out of form but that doesnt mean he’s in top form. He’s not the all conquering Nadal of old but he still can play well and clutch enough to beat his opponents, except one Novak.
There is always a middle ground, just like Novak during 2012-2014 for example, not all conquering like in 2011 and 2015, but good enough to beat most others to win a slam a year; not top form but good enough form to win some and remain as no.1
It’s precedent!
beatdown city!
Guys, i even if you’ve already seen this, it is still worth watching again……send chills down my spine……..just great STUFF!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plGC4-9FmmA
Great stuff. Breathtaking. However just makes you miss that Rafa all the more . Where has he gone?
One of the most welcome sights in the past few weeks has been watching an exhuberant Rafa celebrating his winners in his inimitable way. This more than anything is a barometer of his return to thriving on the thrill of the competition. Something which has been missing for far to long.. In fact I don’t think he was doing it so much even in 2013.
So the dream final is here!
Rafa’s form is recovering quite nicely and he is in so much better control of his nerves now. Falling behind in the scoreline is no longer affecting him the way it was a few months ago. Rafa had a brutal draw and he was done a fantastic job so far. Not many were expecting him to reach the final but he is progressing so nicely.
Rafa would be in a good state mentally. He is 23-10 against Fed and also won their last match indoors. While he would be wary of roger’s brilliance on indoor courts, he would be confident of winning the title as long as he is able to play at a high level.
I am quite interested in seeing how this match will play out. The last time these two played was in january 2014 and I must say Federer’s game has evolved A LOT since then. He is more aggressive now. He covers the net much better and is more mindful at the net now. Roger would probably be thinking that he is 4-1 indoors agains rafa and the one he lost in 2013 was when he was playing bad tennis.
The conditions, the surface, all favor roger. I am also interested in seeing what would rafa’s ROS positioning be. He made it clear he would stand on the baseline to return serve from now on and this is something he needs to do to prepare for 2016. However, he varied his position against Cilic and on occasions against Gasquet. Returning from deep behind the baseline has worked well against Federer but the current Federer is poised to make rafa pay for weak returns from deep in the court. S&V on second serves is also a good option for roger.
Also, don’t forget that on these quick indoor courts, roger’s backhand can handle rafa’s CC forehand a bit better. In their previous indoor matches, roger found it relatively easy to spread the court with his backhand and then attack with his forehand. Bounce is lower so roger can time his backhands better. He won’t stay deep behind the baseline like Gasquet did.
Rafa MUST serve well and lost lose good court positioning. This one is difficult to call ! Very very eager to see how the changes in roger’s game will hold up against the ultimate test.
Great post VR but come on man.
Make. A. Pick. 🙂
Jason Goodall actually said before today’s match that Rafa had a slim chance of winning the title.
Unreal.
I mean sure I’m saying it but I’m just having a laugh. I think he has a 30% chance but that’s more than a slim chance.
haha….
I am not too clear about a few things but I think, rafa’s fighting spirit may well give him the edge! Only rafa knows how fresh his legs are. I hope he will have plenty of energy.
I pick rafa in 3 tough sets.
On the other hand, if roger wins in 2, i will not at all be shocked or something This match will be a good indication of how confident about his improvements rafa is at the moment .
I agree with that. If Rafa is confident and played 95% of his best, he will win.
But that’s a massive “if”.
yeah…I agree that there are a few questions marks surrounding rafa…. he is doing a very good job but has he improved enough? Tomorrow’s final will have all the answers.
Let’s see what Fedberg can do against Rafa 🙂
Beautiful.
Hope we get a whiff of a new version of this before Rafa hangs his racket.
A good way to start would be to put Fed in his place tomorrow (even though he already is)
Who ya got Shireling??
Rafa is not at 95% of his best now. So if that is the criteria for this match, then he would inevitably lose. However, I do not accept that criteria. It’s going to take more time for Rafa to get that close to his best. This was never going to happen overnight or even over a few months. But the key is that Rafa has improved quite a bit, especially with his mental strength. That was the key component that was missing. That is what Rafa needs because with that quality back now, it’s not always about him playing his best.
I am expecting this to go three sets unless something is wrong with Rafa. If I am wrong, then so be it. Tomorrow will be a good indicator of where Rafa is at because taking on Fed on this court is not a gimme. But I am looking forward to it.
Any news on Rafas knee? Concerned about that. He may have played a lot after that in the match but at times, pain resurfaces later.
he said it is totally fine…
Sanju (at 2:36 am).
It’s night in Basel…
fed’s form has not been too great this week. But tomorrow, he will likely be a lot more focused because it is rafa on the other side.
Come on rafa, show no mercy! 24-10 is what we want
Reblogged this on Tennis Abides.
I am expecting Fed to come out playing better than he has in his last few matches. He will bring it because there’s a title on the line, because it’s in his home town and because he’s playing Rafa.
We will have to see what Rafa brings to this match. My one caveat is that Rafa cannot afford to be broken in his first service game.
Rafa has gotten broken early in all his sets and then gotten the break back. He cannot afford to do that here given it is Feds fav surface and Feds serving. That will determine outcome of this match.
Federer’s serve: if he serves the way he did in two out of the three sets in his last two matches Rafa would win in straight sets.
But this is the final. Roger will bring his best serve today. Not so sure he can take care of the UFs however.
The same applies to Rafa. As far as his knee is concerned it is not a problem unless it severely restricts his movement – his pain threshold during a match is legion.
I agree this is Rafa’s match to lose so I’m steeling myself not to be too disappointed if he does but I’m plumping for Rafa in 3
#HopeSpringsEternal
Keep your mind focused and sharp like a laser beam, stay calm and be strong like steel, Rafa!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CStslpRXIAA-F2M.png:medium
augusta, I miss seeing your cheering gif here.
Rafa has played 2 players with OHBH leading up to this, he has also seen off a determined Rosol, Baby Fed – who is trying desperately to move up the rankings and Cilic who many thought was the overwhelming favourite against Rafa. He knows Roger’s game well enough and as for SABR, I doubt that Rafa will be bothered by that. As Roger says, playing Rafa is totally different to playing anyone else.
It’s either gonna be Fed in straights or Rafa in three. If Rafa can get the 1st set he might pull it off in straights but to me that’s the most unlikely outcome.
This
Hawkeye: Why are you only focussing on Rafa’s level of play (which I agree is neither consistent nor back to his absolute best) and completely ignoring the erractic performance by Federer this week?
Are you suggesting he has been faking bad in order to give his loyal Baselites a collective orgasm by suddenly displaying the majestic TMF at his very best?
Should he beat Rafa I fear for the safety of the St. Jakobshalle stadium roof 🙂
Hawkeye wears rose tinted glasses when looking at Federer.
How many times has Roger not looked imperious throughout a tournament, brushing everyone aside, until he comes up against Rafa and gets taken down..
When I last checked it was 17 times, he, he.
Dont forget Hawk’s tendency for anti-jinxing…………..not to mention winding up Ricky
Once indoors. When Rafa was playing his very best tennis.
Hawkeye
17? Freudian slip?
Could have sworn it was 23.
Because on an indoor court, Federer’s best form over the last two months will beat Rafa’s best form over the last two months. Rafa was a much better player when he beat an ailing Fed indoors in 2013.
-hawkeye
C’est moi.
I’m not.
Fed’s best form for the year and especially over the last four months will beat Rafa’s.
Rafa very recently lost 2 and 2 to Novak. Marginal improvements since. Not good enough for Fed indoors.
This thread already has so many comments it’s gone over to a 2nd page and there’s still three hours till the kick-off.
People keep saying Roger is in great form, conveniently forgetting that as defending champion he lost in the 1st round in Shanghai to non other than Albert Ramos.
Selective memory loss is obligatory. I’m amused by the way Knowitall, and otheris, are vascillating right now. They are caught between a rock and a hard place: should they acknowledge Rafa’s resurgence or not.
Fed was rusty.
(He’s in better form than Rafa though.)
Rafa inflicted really deep scar into Fed’s heart.
His mentality will never be ready to fight Rafa
He does not believe he can beat Rafa, this is irrecoverable.
Playing Rafa for the first time in Basel, 10th final becomes another heavy mental burden.
Should he lose in his first meeting with Rafa here, he would feel bad.
He will come out shaky, and be broken in his first game.
Fed just does not have enough weapon to play defender who can attack in Nole and Rafa. He had enough problem with Murray in the past, all three are defenders who can counter attack. With the rest of the fields, he faces minimum challenge…
Sure whatevs.
I’m sure Roger would be undefeated against Rafa off clay if it weren’t for those mental scars.
No, he was just better than Roger. Simple as that. But unlikely today indoors with Rafa not yet back to full form.
When the draw came out, everyone acknowledged that Rafa had a tough draw and Roger had an easy draw. Now that Rafa has come through his tough draw and Fed has had a few hiccups on his way, all of a sudden, some are trying to convince us that Fed has been imperious and Rafa has struggled.
Imperious LOL. Who?
I agree with those saying rafa cannot afford to lose serve cheaply in the early stages of sets. Fed is a great front runner, and with his serve, he is going to turbo charge his way to the finish line. The strategy from fed would be to play ultra aggressive and take time away. He will drive his backhand second serve returns a lot more instead of slicing/chipping it.. we all know the net approaches will be aplenty. Mind you, he is a lot better at the net now but his net rushing game will see a next level challenge today as it is rafa on the other side.
Come on Rafa!
Roger’s net game doesn’t cut it against Rafa. They will both need to serve well, but even if Rafa’s serve is below par he’s got plenty of other weapons whilst Roger’s serve is all he’s got for getting out of trouble.
IF that is the case then it’s worked indoors 4 out of 5 times.
vr, no one can afford to lose serve at anytime against anyone. Rafa has dropped his serve far too many times but the plus side is, he has been able to dig himself out time and time again so that’s good. But he can’t count of being able to it every time so I’m sure his team are working on it.
The rest of your post contradicted your opening statement.
(Anytime vs every time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ9xBJyB3cA
If Rafa loses it will be because he had a bad knee. If Roger loses it will be because his back flared up. This will be boring. I’m off to Sunday Mass.
Rafa almost never ever blames a loss on his injuries. Roger almost always. Usually at the time but also will bring it up months, even years, later. Can’t always say the same of their fans.
Speaking of boring…
Vamos Rafa!
Rafa won the toss and elected to serve.
Rafa received 500.000 $ just to show up at this event…the organizers must be thrilled! It paid off completely! Wisely invested money indeed… ?
first serve in the net
15-0 Rafa. Punishing the Fed BH.
15-15. Made first serve but Fed got in control with a nice return.
30-15. Fed flubs a BH.
great game by Rafa. 1-0.
Rafa holds.
Vamos Rafa!
DF by RF
1-1, but early edge to Rafa
lol SABR
I am rushing home! Keep the updates coming ! What happened on SABR? Lol
SABR failed. Roger got passed.
Mohamed screaming
trouble
this is what happened https://vine.co/v/e3g11xFdO7Y
Fed *3-2
I just turned on the match. The one thing that Rafa couldn’t afford was an early break. He had his chances in that last game, but Fed held.
Fed breaks Rafa and gets the first set.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSu4ysuUAAER9Zy.png
🙁
Roger is serving too well and Rafa isn’t serving that well, that’s the bottom line.
Roger left Sir Shankalot at home today.
not entirely
Both shanked from time to time.
Rafa is playing defensive tennis. He should step it up and attack.
SABR is from the Karlovic Book of Tennis.
Having streaming problems. Lagging behind. Don’t know which is worse – Knowitalls smug commentary or the smug Swiss faces.
Poor you.
Tennis channel commentary is pretty good right now.
Yes, I am watching it on the tennis channel. I like Annacone, but Mary Carillo I could do without.
One out of three SABRs for Roger so far.
Roger needs to help Rafa by serving a few DFs.
Roger’s serve is too good today.
I bet Roger invited Rafa to dinner yesterday and plied him with special sparkling water, or maybe something in the Llindt After Dinner Chocolate.
Roger wants to prove something & Rafa has nothing to prove…
yep
No
Vamos Rafa!
Did he have the knee bandaged at the start, or was it during the match?
He had is taped during the match.
I JUST tuned in :/
rafa saved break point! vamos!
STET IT Up champ!
If anyone is hoping for Fed to help Rafa out, that really says it all. Rafa needs to do this on his own. At least he held his serve. A break would mean lights out.
I hope the knee is okay.
yup! he will have to find a way on his own. Just pounding fed’s backhand with topspin is not going to get it done….he must keep doing that but with better length.
and rafa seems unsure about his position when returning fed’s second serves…
bigger second serve, better volleying skills… all at display from fed in this game
Rafa can’t get a whiff of anything on Fed’s serve. He just has to try to keep holding his serve.
perfect point for rafa to open his service game! good hitting …
I agree, he must keep holding his serves for now..
Rafa is playing defensive tennis, wont work on fast indoor HCs. He’s not serving too, very tough for him to turn things around when Fed is serving so well.
Nothing new indoors.
Roger runs around to hit a forehand return but rafa hits a bigger second serve! good stuff…. drew the error
excellent body serve… 4-4! AGGRESSION please! RAFA!
Rafa held his serve!
WOAHHHH! come onnn!! unreal DTL forehand winner
2nd serve again
Roger is sharp.
so finally you realize that? lol
Yeah, it’s about time Fed is being given some credit. Good stuff from him.
forget about first serves, look at how strong federer’s second serves are…he is taking more risks and BECAUSE he is not under pressure , he can do that with ease.
Way too defensive from Rafa. He won’t break Fed that way, but he’s making it even easier. I am just hoping that Rafa can hold and take this to a TB.
Hope it goes to a TB and Rafa sneaks a set.
If rafa can somehow snatch this set, it would be a major boost for him…but roger is the clear favourite at the moment
serving to stay in the match
I agree. Come on Rafa!
5-5 good hold
yupppp
Nice easy hold for Rafa. Too bad he wasn’t able to do this in the first set.
At least the final score won’t be too bad if Roger wins from here.
Vamos Rafa!
We both said the same thing and posted at the same time! 🙂
15-30 chance
Roger is just not giving anything away.
BP
Rafa breaks! Yes!
Oh my God! Rafa breaks! Now serving for the second set!
HOLD YOUR SERVE!
Rafa, please hold.
Dont tell me Roger blinked first. Wonders will never cease.
Oh lord! WHat fun. Never saw that coming. But you can sense the disappointment in the commentator’s voice. Normally you would think they would be happy that the match would last longer.
I am so nervous right now!
YESS!! how did he break???
MY STREAM NOT WORKING! DAMNNN!! :@ :@
I am not having a good day!
keep me posted please
Fed had a lousy game and Rafa stepped it up going for his shots and playing more aggressive! That’s how he did it!
We are going to a third set!
thank God he played aggressively!
He can do this! roger will keep taking risks…. rafa will have to be aggressive when it matters
Take that, Mary Carillo!
I am getting emotional! Rafa wins the second set!
Way to go champ!
he took it?!!! VAMOSSS!! woohooo!! way to gooo rafaaaaaa
Vamoooosssssss!
set Nadal
What a FIGHTER, Rafa!!! Vamossssssssssssss!! Never can count you out!!
Anybody else and that would be described as ‘choking’. I wasn’t even going to bother to watch on catch up but now I might,
THIS is what was missing in 2015! rafa winning sets when it appears he has no right winning them! somehow he just gets them!
could someone please summarize what happened?
vamosrafa,
Rafa started being a lot more aggressive and Fed hit some bad shots. That’s how Rafa broke him. Fed just seemed to get a little tight and Rafa took advantage. Then Rafa was able to serve it out easily. Maybe the best service game I’ve seen since the match started.
Rafa’s starting to feel it.
Even if Rafa loses from here, it will be no shame.
I said that Rafa would not lose in straight sets! Right on!
Can Rafa keep this up in the third set? He’s starting to play so much better.
Both have done well in three setters this week. Its a shootout now
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSvDfatUAAAfS0R.png
🙂
pray, where is Hawks?
Had to go out with family for special occasion.
Look at the serving stats for Rafa! What a difference!
thanks for the summary above NNY! and yes, 73% points won on second serves :O incredible!! would like to see more winners being hit though!
Go rafa go!
vamosrafa,
I just gave you the very brief summary. Not shot by shot. But it was essentially one shaky game from Fed with some uncharacteristic errors and Rafa pounced! He saw the opportunity and took advantage of it. That’s what he’s been doing all week.
It goes without saying –
RAFA HOLD YOUR SERVE
rafa held to love?? vamos!
Maybe Rafa has got his teeth in this match now. Come on Rafa! You can do this!
I don’t want this to be like their WTF 2010 final…..fed stepped it up in the final set and rafa did not have enough energy left… I hope he has enough in the tank !
I can see from the stats Roger has upped his first serve by a big margin. 🙁
83% now with 80% points won
Okay 1-1. Keep holding Rafa!
Ho, ho. And so has Rafa. 100% and 100% points won.
Yes!
vamosrafa,
On the other page you said you’d like to see more winners from Rafa. That was exactly what I was thinking!
Too early still but it is looking like a massive momentum swing in the offing
30-30….. be safe there rafa!
I just have this gut feeling that Roger will win in the end, maybe because he was so much in control in the first set. Hope I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
NoTV yet!
Vamos Rafa!
Not watchable – too much buffering. Been on to ATP help line will tell you more later.
I too suspect Roger will pull the rabbit out of the hat especially with the advantage of serving first.
This is primarily being played from the baseline! fed is not having enough confident to rush the net more frequently against rafa! Rafa can grind this out…OH NO BP fed ! but deuce now! phewwww
saved with a BH pass wow
oh wow! down the line? lol
NNY, how did rafa save BP? good serve? it is 2-2 now! VAMOSSS! this hold was crucial
Yes, combined with some great cc backhands! Where has that shot been!
vamosrafa,
Sorry, Ricky already answered you! I just said the same thing!
Whew! That was close!
Rafa just needs to keep hold of his serve. Anything can happen.
roger held so quickly there…I am assuming it was a display of great serving in that game
Yes.
Rafa should just keep holding his serve and I believe he will have his chances…. he is mentally the stronger player of course
vamosrafa,
It was the cc backhands that helped Rafa save the BP’s. What a time for him to start hitting that shot so well!
vr, are you not able to see the match?
I can try to do play by play, but I am too nervous.
both playing pretty decently now
no no it is okay, just brief summaries would be fine! thanks !
@nadline, nopes ! unable to watch it! gutted I am
Roger might get nervous and drop his serve.
3-3! nice hold by rafa?
Great body serve from Rafa to win that service game.
3-3
15-30!
damn 40-30 now
Rafa had an opening at 15-30, but Fed came up with some sharp aggressive play to hold serve. 4-3 Fed.
I can feel the pressure building with each game as they get closer to the end.
RAFA HOLD YOUR SERVE!
The place is so noisy! Fans urging Fed on.
The 15-30 shank on the second serve was crucial 🙁
Yes, missed opportunity.
he shanked a second serve return? :/ I am assuming he was standing close to the baseline to return
Now please hold , rafa. I believe that the closer they go to a tie break, the more this one’s gona tilt in rafa’s favor… 23-10 would hopefully come into play
But if roger serves like crazy in the TB, that would be …. dreadful
anyway, 3-4 rafa…. HOLD champ
Oh shit
Not bad for someone whose worst surface is indoors against the King of Indoors.
30-30!
40-30! one more point! GOD THIS IS FRUSTRATING! WHY CAN’T I WATCH :@
DEUCE!
BP Roger! noooooo
Fed is slaughtering Rafa’s 2nd serve
It’s over 🙁 5-3
Rafa is broken. Fed serving for the match. This is tough.
Rafa needed this match before the WTF. U. Toni will be making notes.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he pulls out of WTF now and even skips his least favourite tournament (Paris) as well. He needs to recoup, put in time on his physical training and practice what he has learnt from the past two months.
hahahahahahahahahaha
this is a joke, right:
ed251137: “It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he pulls out of WTF now and even skips his least favourite tournament (Paris) as well.”
Ricky said earlier that Rafa wouldn’t play WTF this year LOL.
In February maybe
Maybe augusta can find it.
No less than three months ago.
#HopeThisHelps
Thanks for confirming I hadn’t made it all up 🙂
I recall mentioning I had declined a hospitality seat on the strength of Ricky’s comment when he said even if Rafa did qualify he wouldn’t play. This was followed by a lengthy discussion on what the penalty would be for withdrawing from a mandatory event blah, blah. I know I am sometimes absent minded – but not to that extent.
What month was that ed?
no penalty. you make up an injury (like Murray is threatening to do this year).
Sorry ed, I put this on the wrong thread…
https://tenngrand.com/2015/10/31/basel-final-preview-and-pick-nadal-vs-federer-xxxiv/comment-page-9/#comment-224162
After ridiculing my ‘preposterous’ comment I think Ricky owes me the courtesy of at least acknowledging it was he who first promulgated the idea.
ed251137 (at 12:39 am),
—This was followed by a lengthy discussion on what the penalty would be for withdrawing from a mandatory event —
===
.
A penalty for withdrawing from the WTF:
https://tenngrand.com/2015/09/17/davis-cup-previews-and-picks-murray-vs-kokkinakis-evans-vs-tomic/comment-page-4/#comment-216821
That was vis a vis Murray – what I was looking for is the discussion re: Rafa which Hawkeye has tracked down.
ed251137 (at 8:42 am),
I pointed out the penalty. (See Ricky’s post at 1:05 am).
30-30!! break rafa !! PLZZZZZZ
That was so near but so far.
how did rafa save MP??
WHY DID RAFA NOT GO DOWN THE LINE?????????????????
it’s over :/
Will watch the replay and then comment more…
anyway, looks like this was a positive performance overall and rafa will leave Basel with good feelings about his game and mentality. He did lots of fighting!
Didn’t see it but agreed. Might watch later.
Definitely a postive week and performance 🙂 Nothing to complain about. He took it to Roger on his favorite court. 🙂
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSvMR1PWwAEpbOx.png
🙁
woah! 44 winners to 21 winners….. I mean, it has always been fed hitting more winners in their matches and that is understanable but rafa has to bridge this gap…. a lot of this has to do with the quality of first serves..
NID
Rafa was fighting right to the end. That shot he hit that was in to get him to deuce was really something. Now I can’t remember if it was a forehand or a backhand. I am thinking it was a cc backhand. That shot really came to life in this match.
One break and that was it. Rafa has to work on that second serve! But he made a match of it and did very well. No shame in losing in three tough sets on this court in Fed’s home town.
Rafa will be disappointed but will take some real positives out of this. He really showed something in coming back to win that second set.
I hope people here also realize federer is not a joke! facing federer does not mean rafa’s won the title already. Fed’s the best indoors overall and only novak has gotten the better of him over the past few years. Rafa CAN beat him but he needs to be on top of his game…
And these are the kind of matches that make me wish Rafa had at least hired a coach just to improve his serve. To be honest, uncle Toni does not know much about serving and stuff…. Rafa’s second serve should also be improved a lot!
sighhh…. anyway, well done team rafa! the improvements are quite significant. Rafa and his team are on the right path….
The thing is this Fed is not exactly at the top of his game and Rafa has his chances but doesnt take them. I wonder when Rafa is going to win another indoor HC title and beating Fed to get it.
I also know what Rafa is going to say….
Anyway I think Rafa doesnt expect to win here, I have a feeling he doesnt expect himself to win anything indoors.
um, Fed has been great in 2015. Nadal has been terrible. And Nadal almost won on his worst surface in Federer’s own country.
RF finally gets it. Better late than never.
RD (not RF). RF got it quite some time ago.
The thing is this Fed is not exactly at the top of his game and Rafa has his chances but doesnt take them. I wonder when Rafa is going to win another indoor HC title and beating Fed to get it.
I also know what Rafa is going to say….
Anyway I think Rafa doesnt expect to win here, I have a feeling he doesnt expect himself to win anything indoors.
VR, that.
Vamosrafa, my thoughts exactly. Toni had failed since day one to see the advantage of having a good to great serve and thus had never concentrated on helping Rafa to work on and developed his serve from young. He had failed to help Rafa realized his full potential imo, resulting in Rafa having to work so hard to hold serves at times, when the likes of Fed or Novak could just serve an ace to help them hold serve or at least got out of troubles.
Yes, they should hire someone who could really help Rafa develop a great serve, at least for playing on grass and fast HCs, if Rafa finds it too burdensome on his shoulders to serve big the whole season.
Really dont like the way Rafa plays this match. He has all the chances to break and yet he gets broken by playing a lousy service game.
He’s still far from the top three players; still too defensive. What a missed opportunity to get an indoor HC title. Fed has made many errors in this match but too bad Rafa couldnt take advantage. Fast courts are really not Rafa’s forte, I think his only hope is on the slower surfaces.
you are blinded by your disappointment. Nadal played very well aside from 2 forehands that cost him the match.
Ricky,
Yes! Thanks for saying it! I agree!
+1
No not blinded, he’s playing from a defensive position hence hitting short balls. Fed not exactly at the top of his game and Rafa failed to take advantage despite getting close.
No not blinded, he’s playing from a defensive position hence hitting short balls. Fed not exactly at the top of his game and Rafa failed to take advantage despite getting close.
lucky,
This is one time when I have to disagree with you. I thought Rafa played very well, especially in coming back to win that second set. He was in this right to the end.
Whats the point of being close but still couldnt win a match when half the time you’re playing better than your opponent? If Rafa is playing poorly I can understand but hes playing well and went the distance and faltered in the end. I dont see anything to be happy about, unless Rafa has never dreamt of winnung this and is just happy to be in the final.
the guy has won 14 major titles. a 500 means nothing. all that matter was playing well, which he did (especially by his recent standards)
by far the best match he played all week
Two sides to a coin. Its a 500 yet he couldnt win, playing well and still couldnt win. I doubt he can have better results at Paris Masters and WTF.
Ricky,
Again thanks! The voice of reason! Absolutely! Is a win in a 500 tournament going to mean something in the grand scheme of things? Is that what Rafa is really aiming for in his career now?
He played consistently well on an indoor hard court tournament, reached the final after getting to the final in Beijing and semi of Shanghai. Since when does Rafa win titles in this part of the tennis year? He has pretty much matched his results from 2013 for this part of the year.
Rafa showed that will to win, that fighting spirit in coming back in his matches against tough opponents who all had the game to give him trouble here. He played the best tennis of the year in this tournament. It’s a work in progress. It’s all about the big picture. Winning this title would not have meant that Rafa was back, at his best, on top of his game. This is all about being ready for 2016.
If this was back in the summer, Fed would have cruised to any easy win. But it didn’t happen that way. Rafa was in this right to the end. Now it’s all about finishing up the year decently and working on his game for next year.
nativenewyorker7 (at 4:34 pm),
—if this was back in the summer, Fed would have cruised to any easy win.—
===
.
I was realistic already before summer when I wrote this:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSvX6wbWsAAlk2c.png:medium
Yes, that second serve has to be worked on for sure. Rafa is under too much pressure in key moments of matches and needs a second serve that he can rely on to hold his serve.
Of course Fed is not a joke indoors. If you know anything about tennis, then you know that. But that’s why this was so satisfying in many ways. Fed had to fight for it right to the end.
Rafa will know that he could have won this match. He was in it. So he can take all the good things and move forward.
Rafa had his chances even in that last game when Fed was serving for the match. That’s all you can ask of him, giving it his all to the end.
Should’ve been straight sets but given Roger’s play this week I’ll take it. Onto WTF. Bigger fish to fry. But before then, bring in the Pizza Party. 🙂
actually Nadal probably should have won. Both players have reasons to be encouraged.
Nadal was the better player for the majority of the match.
Doesn’t matter. This is indoor hard and Roger was playing terrible all week. Considering his lack of focus and quite possibly some back niggles given his abbreviated service motion, I’ll take three sets. I hope he skips Paris now. Already played a lot this year.
Fed has barely played at all this fall. He lost his opener in Shanghai.
Nice to know that’s how you saw the match. We are probably all too emotionally involved to assess it dispassionately.
Exactly and yet he blew it! Frankly this Fed is beatable and yet Rafa managed to lose it. I can see the disappointment on Rafa’s face.
would have been a far more crushing loss for Fed. Nadal WANTED to win. Fed NEEDED to win.
At 34, he’s played a lot for the entirety of 2015. He still has WTF to go and then that useless exho that he really shouldn’t be participating in. *facepalm*
IPTL?
Yep. That. He needs to not play it. Rest up, and sharpen his tools for 2016.
no
Exactly…At some point I posted but since I was at my summer house where internet is slow my post did not get through…
I said that Fed had something to prove in this match and Rafa had nothing to prove…wining this title wouldn’t make a big difference…what matters is Rafa playing great match…he is getting there…
Vamos!
@Ricky 3:56 Fed was much better than Nadal today. Just because you picked Nadal to win doesn’t mean he was playing better than Fed. Except the first few games Fed was better through out and should have won in straights but it went to 3 but I ‘m glad it went to 3 as otherwise everyone would have said had it would have went to 3 Nadal would have won as Fed would falter. Anyway it was Fed’s home town and indoor court, the only worrying fact was his lacklustre performance since US open but he won and that’s it
you’re kidding, right?
first set should have been decided by one break AT MOST. Nadal controlled entire second set. Third set should have gone to a tiebreaker if Nadal had just converted just 1 of 2 easy forehands.
Someone said either Fed would win in two or Rafa would win in three (and ^^ someone agreed).
Do you???
Fed was better in the second set and he was playing without fear, I didn’t see the complete statistics I only know they both had one break chance which Nadal took and Fed didn’t. And just one or two forehands would not decide the outcome and these errors you can just ignore as Unforced errors because like this Fed misses many easy backhand and forehand which if he doesn’t miss then nobody can defeat him.
Errors comes with risk and you have to accept it
Funnily enough, although he won in the end, I think it is Federer who has more to worry about than Rafa. He wont be feeling ecstatic about how close he was to messing up.
You could almost hear Djokovic chortling to himself as that match unfolded.
Why would Djokovic be chortling?
why wouldnt he?
The Paris Masters looks that much easier for a start. And the path is that much clearer to make if three consecutive WTF wins.
Djoko going for his fourth consecutive WTF win
and will get it
It will be his third consecutive win. 2014 was by default. It was not a ‘win’ 🙂
ed, do you think Djokovic doesn’t need to worry about Rafa?
not only will he play the WTFs, but he will win at least one round-robin match (more than in whatever year that was when he went 0-3)
Djokovic does not need to worry about anybody considering how much above everyone else he is at the moment
It seems Rafa can beat Ferrer, Nishi, Berdy, Wawa. Andy maybe. Fed on a good day. Nole on a great day coupled with a bad day for Nole
your first 3 statements were correct
Nadline: Not for the time being. Come the clay court swing will be a different matter.
This is the kind of match Roger calls a draw.
Uncle Toni ran over to Fed’s box and congragulated Fed’s uncle. Fed deserved this considering he conquered his mental demons against Rafa in this match. But Rafa has plenty to be happy out.
i highly doubt Federer would have ever beaten Nadal again if he had lost today
Fed’s had far more crushing losses than a Basel final and bounced back just fine. I haven’t seen anyone with the kind of optimism he exudes. At 34, I’m pretty sure hes really happy with his overall play no matter what. 23-24 losses at this point is the same thing, really. He’s not going to bridge that gap no matter what.
vmk: I agreet in terms of ranking points he’s so far ahead it’ll be a long time before he can be challenged but Djokovic is chasing the entries in the Record books rather than points as such. He is dreaming of Goatdom. The more records held by Federer and Rafa that he can smash the happier kid goat he will be.
@Ricky. It occurred to me during the match this was almost certainly the last time we’ll see them competing against each– apart from exhibitions.
So some posters here think this was not an encouraging performance…will see it myself and share my perspective.
Just looking at the results, I think it is a good win!
and federer eventually had 44 winners to 32 UE…at least the stats are pretty good!
he lost….
i meant good result, not good win!
vamosrafa,
I do not agree with those who think this was not a good performance. As you said, you can watch it for yourself and come to your own conclusions. I would be interested to hear them! However for myself, I am pleased with the way Rafa played. This could have been a straight sets loss, but Rafa fought back in that second set and took it to a third set. In Fed’s house, where he has won so many times.
Ricky said it was two forehands that cost Rafa the match. That and his second serve. Rafa and Uncle Toni have to do something about that. You look at Novak and see that he has a strong second serve. Same with Fed. This has been a liability for Rafa. He has to address it. But this match came down to a few shots. Rafa could have easily been the winner and Fed knows it.
Rafa had another slow start in that first set, something he’s been doing throughout this tournament. So it took him a set to get going. But as we have seen him do in his previous matches, he made adjustments and shifted the dynamic of the match. It’s a good thing.
Of course, I would have been happier if Rafa had won. But he did himself proud.
Nadal vs. Rosol R2 of Paris
thanks for your views NNY..i will discuss once I have watched the match
rosol again?! NOO
Rosol has to win r1 first, no? Is it ggl or gabashvili that he is gng to play?
GGL
I agree with Ricky. Rafa wanted to win, but Fed needed to win. This is his home town where he’s dominated. Yet Rafa pushed him to the brink.
Maybe Fed fans will see it differently, but I wouldn’t be gloating about Fed having to battle to beat Rafa on an indoor hard court. Fed got knocked out of Shanghai in his first match, losing to a qualifier, so he needed this one.
Rafa now knows that he was competitive and took it to Fed on this surface. This match is going to give Rafa a lot of confidence, especially for the WTF. I continue to be amazed at how well Rafa has played in this part of the tennis year.
Novak doesn’t have anything to fear from anyone right now. However, I do agree with ed about waiting until clay court season. If Rafa can continue this way, maybe even sooner! 🙂
Whats the point of being competitive, even has the edge over your opponent and still couldnt win?
Im disappointed because Rafa was playing well enough to win, though not playing ideal indoor HC tennis, had chances to break his opponent and then served for the match, yet he couldnt break (ok accepted given how Fed serves) and worse still, faltered in his own service game and got broken. This is the storyline this whole season and now it happened in a final.
Yes its Fed on an indoor HC but Fed was making all kinds of errors when Rafa attacked his BHs and Rafa ended up being the one who blinked and lost.
I dont care how Fed and his fans think, whats more important is how Rafa is going to win when it matters, ie title matches.
Are you kidding me? Rafa will meet Rosol again? 🙁
Both players played reasonably well, however Federer should be disappointed by how poorly he fared on Nadal’s 2nd serve.
Actually Fed did not have to win this one. He is 34 years old battling a player who has had his number throughout his prime. As some pointed out, Rafa is the favorite no matter where he plays Fed. So Fed is beating the odds everytime he beats Rafa especially in the twilight of his career
I don’t agree. This should have been an easy win for Fed. The fact that he has to struggle so hard to win doesn’t bode well for him. He got one against Rafa on his best surface in his home town. He did what he was supposed to do, only it was a lot harder than it should have been. Rafa is going to take a lot of good things out of this match.
Why would Novak worry about Rafa? Novak just play his usual game, maybe with more focus and need not even get out of his comfort zone to beat Rafa. Rafa OTOH has to work so hard and still fail. To me Rafa is playing a wrong strategy vs Novak, you cant outhit Novak from the baseline, you have to beat him with varieties if you cant hit like Stan or Delpo from the baseline.
Rafa ‘s disadvantage is still his serve. Fed ( and Novak) can rely on his/their serves to get out of troubles but Rafa couldnt and faltered in the end.
This wasn’t a bad week for Nadal but he was unconvincing in in most of his matches, he could have or should have lost to Rosol.
Could have and should have don’t mean anything. It’s the result that counts. The fact that Rafa won when he should have lost is what is important. It won’t say should have or could have on the record. That’s what Rafa has done throughout his career. He’s been unable to do it this year until now.
Nobody said that Novak is worrying about Rafa now. He’s not worrying about anybody. Rafa is working to get back to his best so that he can be competitive with Novak and beat him again. He’s managed to do it the past few years until this year.
We all know that Rafa’s second serve is a liability. I have been saying that for a while now. It’s something that Rafa and Uncle Toni will have to address and work on.
Nadal won a high percentage of 2nd serve points in this match specially in first 2 sets.
I agree…
That doesn’t mean that Rafa’s second serve isn’t a liability. Against someone like Novak with his superb ROS, Rafa doesn’t win enough second serve points. It’s happened to him quite a bit this year. I do think that he’s shown improvement overall with his serving recently. But I still believe that there is more work to do. Novak’s average second serve speed is over 100 mph, I believe. So if he doesn’t get his first serves in, he knows that he can rely on his second serves to get the job done.
Rafa did well in this match against Fed, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to work on his serve. I am sure he will want to continue to improve that aspect of his game, along with his forehand.
For a change Federer’s backhand was not an absolute disaster in this match and he served well too.
his backhand has improved…much better now than it was in 06-07
It’s not ‘improved’, he just knows how to handle the topspin peppering better. On mid-to-low level shots, Fed’s BH was never a liability. It’s the weight of the groundstrokes and crucially the height that put him at a natural liability.
it’s not improved?! haha… is has improved A LOT
Correct. It hasn’t improved. It’s adjusted, or rather gotten used to, with the advent of the ball machines in tennis.
I actually dont think so. Fed’s BH was very solid back in 2006-2007 and thats why he could beat Rafa so convincingly on indoor HCs.
Fed’s BH may have more varieties now but not necessarily more solid. Rafa could handle Fed on indoor HCs better these days, of course thats because Rafa is a better HC player now and Fed is getting ‘old’ these days.
I am quite surprised you people thikn his backhand was better in 06-07! it is a much more effective shot now and I am referring only to the backhan drive /topspin backhand!
Fed’s backhand was helpless against Rafa on so many occasions but they he went on a mission to improve it. make it more of a weapon in baseline rallies. He always had the timing but lacked power. Finding penetration was a challenge for him. Then, he started improving it big time. Instead of me going into details of how he has improved it, you guys can simply read what federer himself and what rafa have said about federer’s backhand!
Fed punished rafa in WTF 2011 and his backhand was SO DEVASTATING … then, rafa played him in the AO SF in 2012 after a couple of months. Rafa started the match attacking roger’s backhand but he suffered! Roger was punishing him! roger hit an incredibly powerful CC backhand off a slice backhand by rafa and this barrage forced rafa to change tactics. he actually started going for fed’s forehand more and them took control of the match! Later, in the press conference, he explained that he is well aware of the danger roger’s backhand can now pose and he said it was a very improved shot over the years.
At the end of 2011, this is what Fed had to say:
“I used to have a weak backhand. But then everybody played to my backhand. So obviously I was always going to improve my backhand eventually. I think the same thing kind of happened to many different players. I don’t think Novak’s forehand used to be a strength. Today it’s a weapon. Rafa the same thing. He used to struggle if you hit hard into his forehand. Today it’s no problem for him anymore.”
Then, federer himself talked about his improved backhands. In 2013, he said
“Thankfully to all my opponents over the years who have played a million balls to my backhand, it’s actually gotten pretty good. I can really thank them in a big way for improving my backhand.”
And recently, before shanghai, federer once again said that his rivals (novak and rafa), esp rafa, have really forced him to change his game!
Also, the new racket has definitely made his backhand more powerful. His backhand is MUCH stronger and better than it was in 06-07!
VR knows tennis.
#Boom
#DropTheMic
I dont see Fed’s BH improvement when facing Rafa on clay. In the past Fed’s BH only had problem when facing Rafa on clay. On grass and HCs, not much issue. On indoor HCs Fed always won.
Like I said, Fed’s BH back then was more solid, now more varieties. Fed beating Rafa on indoor HC was the norm from last time till now except in 2013 so its not Fed’s BH thats the concern. Fed still was losing to Rafa on clay in 2013 Rome Final, improved BH or not.
naaa.. it’s not like that in my view! if fed kept losing to rafa on clay, that does not mean his backhand did not improve! poor way of looking at it! you have not taken into account how much rafa’s forehand had evolved leading up to 2013. All these players made great improvements. also, 2013 is not a good period to judge federer…
Fed’s backhand was lethal in 2011 RG! clearly more aggressive than it was in 05-07. He was doing a lot more damage. It has become a bigger weapon…it is obvious i think.
He was winning matches in 2006-07 for other reasons. Not because his backhand was more solid than it is today! He HIMSELF has said it a gazilion times his backhand used to be weak and it has improved quite a lot. It is less about greater variety but rather more about becoming a more offensive shot. He has made it into a weapon…. Not only rafa but even novak was exploiting it. AO 2008 SF was the first time someone started doing it on a consistent basis….
His timing was incredible in 06-07 and he was great at spreading the court.
Fed’s backhand ROS has also become more offensive.
You see, Fed talked about his improved BH but improved can be in the form of hitting it with more varieties and yes more offensive but that doesnt mean it wont break down. Rafa was pummeling Fed’s BH in this match and was able to extract errors from Fed even on indoor HCs. Rafa wasnt able to do that to Fed in 2006/2007 at Shanghai TMC.
I dont remember that in the past any other player could exploit Fed’s BH other than Rafa. Its only after 2008 or 2009 that other players started attacking Fed’s BH more but without much success. Not even Novak or Murray could do what Rafa did to Fed’s BH. In fact Novak is better at exploiting Fed’s FHs these days.
I thought rafa was gonna win during the third set but fed fought hard and stayed with it. Like Ricky said just a few forehands in the 4-3 game cost him both players seemed kind of nervous and edgy imo. Rafa couldn’t really do as much as he should’ve on Feds serve though. I don’t think he was used to it at first since they haven’t played in a while cuz he was shanking lots of returns early on. I honestly think Rogers serve was maybe the most key part of the match for him. He was able to throw in aces and big serves when he needed to. Anyways it was a pretty high quality match overall in my opinion. ALLEZ Roger!!!! On to Paris.
yes after set 2 he was in control
Federer also played sloppy tennis at times here in Basel, playing indoors Fed should not drop sets to Goffin or Kohlschreiber.
vamosrafa,
I agree with your take on the state of Fed’s backhand. I also think what Fed himself said is extremely important. He ought to know! I remember in the 2009 AO final how the commentators and pundits and everyone was talking about how Rafa used his backhand to brilliant effect. He also exposed Fed’s backhand as a weakness. Rafa was praised to the heavens for being smart enough to go after this weaker shot in Fed’s game. I think that’s why Fed gave credit to his opponents for forcing him to improve his backhand.
Congrats to me. NID.
Congrats to you? Come on! You didn’t say that Fed would in 3 sets. You said it would be Fed in 2 sets. NID! So keep it real and own what you really said.
This was not how you said it would be. Remember? You were not expecting Rafa to make a match out of it. Which he did.
Yes that I agree. Rafa made a match out of it.
Rafa was unprepared for how good Roger was in the 1st set because Roger has been rubbish all week, if the truth be known. Roger served exceptionally well and didn’t make as many errors by his standards. Rafa could have played better, but it’s a process and he didn’t get blown off court. At the same time, it could have gone either way.
Everyone agrees that indoor hard court is not the best place for Rafa’s game.
#no need to cry over split milk
Imagine how much a win over Fed here can add to Rafa’s confidence, that at least shows him he can beat a top 3 guy.
Its still Rafa’s serve and his FH that can break down at crucial moments. The fighting spirit is there but not all parts of his game are working well. I think Rafa has to move up the court more often to make up for loss of speed and power. Hes hitting short balls that Fed could capitalize on.
I always say that!! He just LOVES camping out at the baseline!! Its just something he cant get out of. Rafa knows that too but its when he does not trust his game he plays so safe, it quite annoying!!!
I was surprised to know that this was Rafa’s first and only final in Basel!! Disappointed that he lost but Rafa can only gain confidence and be encouraged by this match and his performance here in Basel. He knows how to fight and if he keeps ironing those kinks he will get there. He is ending this year on a positive note, never have done well during this time, so he should be proud. But like many said here, Rafa needs to iron some of those kinks if he wants to get on top of his game again. These matches are good for him so he can improve for the coming season. I cant wait! Congratulations to Fed and his fans!!
Rafa has only played Basel 4 times including this year. Last year he played with appendicitis. He used to try and get out of these indoor tournaments. if he could.
nadline10 (at 5:32 pm),
In 2013, Rafa signed a 3-year contract to play in Basel.
so it ended this year?
Ricky Dimon (at 6:02 pm),
The Basel tournament website, Nov. 1, 2015: ¤¤ At the media conference in Sous-Sol at St. Jakob, the reporters pressed Brennwald [the Tournament Director] for his view on what the future holds for the Swiss Indoors.
“By Christmas, after the Masters, we will be in a position to give an answer to some of the as yet unanswered questions,” explained Brennwald. The Swiss contingent, consisting of Roger Federer und Stan Wawrinka, is under contract to appear at the tournament in 2016. Brennwald said that Nadal had conquered the hearts of many Swiss tennis fans at this year’s Indoors and that he will definitely be in contact with the Spaniard’s team with a view to bringing the best clay-court player of all time back to Basel next year. ¤¤
http://www.swissindoorsbasel.ch/en-us/News/Tournament-News/ArtMID/6909/ArticleID/22673/Roger-Brennwald-%E2%80%9CKeeping-hold-of-the-high-share-of-vested-rights%E2%80%9D
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSvlSEVVEAE7mHF.jpg:large
http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/gettyimages.com/atp-swiss-indoor-basel-day-20151101-173415-139.jpg
Absolutely love the tradition Roger has got going for the Basel ball-boys. Well, that’s one crowd right there that wouldn’t want him to retire anytime soon. ;p
The Basel Tournament website, Nov. 1, 2015 : ¤¤ Nadal: the winner of hearts
He fought, he worked, he sweated, Nadal did what he does best, but the Spaniard missed a few points in the final that he really should have scored. Rafael Nadal came up short against his long-time arch rival Roger Federer, losing 3:6 in the third set. Although he failed to clinch the title, this has been a successful Swiss Indoors for the world’s best clay-court player. “It was a week full of positives for me. I would like to thank the Swiss fans for their support over the past seven days. Today it’s understandable that I didn’t receive quite as much applause as I have on previous occasions this week,” said the Spaniard. As always, the Majorcan was gracious, even in defeat. He is a true sportsman…
What have we learned from Basel: Nadal is back. In the sun and heat of Australia at the Yara River in Melbourne, the Spaniard will be more effective and might even regain his invincibility on the red surface. He leaves St. Jakob as the proud winner of hearts. ¤¤
Read more in:
http://www.swissindoorsbasel.ch/en-us/News/Tournament-News/ArtMID/6909/ArticleID/22678/Nadal-the-winner-of-hearts
do you have any interview / trophy ceremony?
Ricky (at 6:30 pm),
Rafa’s post-match press conference / Final Basel 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU8HWrxQdfY
Ricky (at 6:30 pm),
Rafa’s speech at the trophy ceremony / Basel 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEYNTQuEmUM
Dang. Possibly Rosol in R2? Rafa will be rooting for GGL that’s for sure. No way Rosol will lose now that he may play Rafa though lol.
@ augusta08 says:
November 1, 2015 at 6:00 pm
I see. That’s why he played last year even though he was unwell. This year they got their money’s worth as he got to the final. I’m glad that everyone acknowledges that the match could have gone either way.
Is Basel not mandatory then?
nadline10 ( at 6:38 pm),
The ATP-500 tournaments are not mandatory events, but top 30 players (based on the year-end ATP Rankings) must play a minimum of four 500 level tournaments during the calendar year, including at least one event following the US Open (Monte Carlo Masters 1000 event will count towards the minimum of four and all penalties apply).
[Source: ATP website]
I dont remember the exact details but a few years back I recall there was some bad feeling between Rodger and the tournament director over his demand for a higher fee. He reckoned he had paid his dues and some by not demanding the going rate for his appearances for years and he felt he was being exploited.
ed251137 ( at 6:48 pm)
TENNIS.com, April 29, 2013: ¤¤ Basel tournament director: Federer refused our offer¤¤
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/04/basel-tournament-director-federer-refused-our-offer/47250/#.UscbZdIW0zT
We all know that there are still parts of Rafa’s game that are not working well enough at this point in time. But I do not think that winning a 500 tournament would suddenly give Rafa tons of confidence and indicate that he is back to his best. A title is always good, but it’s not the be-all and end-all. At this stage of Rafa’s career, it’s all about the slams. That is what he is aiming for and working towards now.
I would always prefer that Rafa win, that is a given. But this is a loss that I can live with and I think Rafa, too. The match turned on a few points and it could have gone either way. Rafa stayed in it and kept on fighting and managed to turn things around in that second set. He wasn’t able to do this earlier this year.
This is still a good result. Rafa can move on to Paris and know that he is finally playing well, that he’s competing. I have confidence that he will address the issues in his game that still need work. He knows what has to be done.
Certainly better than losing. How many times Rafa came from behind to win this week? And if he could do it to Fed on Fed’s homeground, you think it wont boost his confidence for the coming tournaments? At least if he faces similar scenario in future, having beaten the no.2 or 3 player in such a manner may give him added confidence to overcome his opponents.
He came close at Shanghai vs Tsonga and now vs Fed, still couldnt get over the finishing line. If he lost to Fed 6-3, 6-4, at least I could say that Fed was too good, just like Novak in Beijing. Its at crucial moments that he faltered and that really made the loss real bitter and hard to swallow. If they went to a tiebreak and Fed played brilliantly to win, I would say too good to Fed, but that’s not the case here.
Hint: Rafa would have won today anywhere anytime (except indoors).
that should be the mode of thinking when Nadal is playing well. Based on his year, today was not at all bad.
He didnt choke at crucial moments. The problem is his overall level is not good enough right now.
Your last sentence is correct.
understand your disappointment but the thing is, it is never easy to just play on the baseline or play aggressively with ‘colm’ in key moments when you have not done that in a long time. You got to have a lot of confidence in your ability to do that at the big stages. Rafa played a pretty good final. He missed a couple of forehands that he should definitely have made. I also think rafa could easily have broken in the last game! he had a forehand pass lined up at 15-15 but missed it as he attempted a DTL winner…then he set up a forehand and hit directly at fed on deuce , and fed put that away for a volley winner.
Rafa started the match very positively! he dominated in his first two service games and that was encouraging. He also played a good point on 3-2 BP but fed hit an incredible CC forehand pass.
I think, we should cut rafa some slack here. He will also be much more ready for this ultra aggressive fed. Fed made the mistake of not rushing the net more often in set 2 (only had 5 approaches)… he adjuted in set 3…. I also felt rafa was a bit confused about his ROS court positioning (esp on 2nd serves)… I loved the way he hit two return winners in the final game 🙂
I think this loss is MUCH better than a 6-3 6-4 type loss. The way rafa has been progressing, this week has been very positive. In my view, no reason to be too disappointed. Rafa will improve more by the time WTF is here.
His second serve is the biggest concern for me though. Improvements have been too slow in that department. He just needs to look at Novak. Fed always had a great one but today served bigger than usual second serves.
It was I.N.D.O.O.R.S.
#NothingNew
Rafa is 22-6 vs Roger where tennis is meant to be played.
agree with Ricky and Hawkeye..
Rafa of 2010 and 2013 did not do anything special in indoor conditions so why expect the rafa of 2015 to defeat federer in a final! He did a pretty good job and his fighting skills almost won him the match. It was close!
Rafa played a great match overall but he was just not 100% confident about his some of his abilities….
We would probably have won this match on any other surface…. may be fed would have won on grass but outdoors is different….
lucky,
I did not say that a win here over Fed would not have given Rafa confidence. If you read what I wrote, I said that it would not suddenly give Rafa tons of confidence. Of course, it would have helped him gain some confidence. But I said it’s not the be-all and end-all. I also said that I always want Rafa to win. Of course, I would have preferred that he won this final. That goes without saying. I want to be clear as to what I am saying and what I am not saying.
I remember what I was saying earlier this year after those terrible losses in which Rafa just wasn’t able to even compete. I kept saying – it’s the way he’s losing, not the fact that he’s losing. Rafa is going to have his losses. He has said this is the sport. There are ups and downs, great victories and tough losses. But Rafa lost that will to win, that incredible mental strength that made him play his best when his back was against the wall. Now he is playing like that again, competing, finding solutions in matches, being aggressive and not giving up. That’s one of the keys to his greatness.
This is why I say that I can live with this loss. Because Rafa gave it his best shot and the match turned on a few shots. I am not going to freak out and act like it’s the end of the world because he didn’t beat Fed here. How often do we hear the familiar refrain – if it’s indoor hard courts, then Rafa doesn’t stand a chance? Fed has the advantage over Rafa on indoor hard courts. So I take it as a positive that Rafa made this a tough match.
If Rafa fell apart every time he had a loss, then he would have retired a long time ago. He’s smart enough to see the big picture. I do not agree at all about living with Rafa losing 6-3, 6-4 to Fed. Absolutely not! It would not necessarily mean that Fed was too good. It could also mean that Rafa wasn’t able to compete on a good enough level to make the match competitive.
Rafa did not falter. He missed some shots here and there. So did Fed. But in the end Fed got the break of serve in that third set. However, even as he tried to serve it out, Rafa was still in there fighting. A missed forehand and he might well have broken Fed. He made him earn it. This loss I can live with and I believe Rafa can, too. He said it himself in his post-match presser – he was able to be competitive. For a guy who was losing to the likes of Fog, Raonic and Verdasco, that’s a sign of progress. The wins and titles will follow.
I dont understand why when playing on indoor quick HCs, Rafa was still taking a very defensive position behind the baseline. He had given all his opponents so much space to work with and they could just move forward and pushed Rafa even further behind the baseline. Rafa was returning short and hitting short balls as a result of his poor court position.
If we talk about things he needs to improve, I think this is something he has to look into, if not he has to grind his body to dust playing three sets matches one after another tournament after tournament. Its surprising that Toni and Rafa failed to address this issue after so long.
He has to start between his ears.
Everything else will take care of itself. (Except maybe for his serve and knees. He needs a serving coach. Or maybe his back is stopping him from serving like he did in 2013. I think that’s what caused his problems in AO 2014 vs Stan).
it would only be surprising if they ever changed it at this point
haha….it is no rocket science that he needs to be close to the baseline. he himself has said this is sometihng he intends to do for 2016 and his aggressive ROS positioning is for that. He made ajdustments against Rosol and Cilic to turn the tables and court positioning was one of those adjustments.
However, it is simply not a on-off switch when it comes to employing a deep court positioning. It was due to roger’s ultra-aggressive game plan and littleee bit lack of conviction in rafa’s mind. Once he wins more matches with an offensive position, he will automatically stick to it more.
@hawkeye, I wish he would get a serving coach. Oscar Borras did wonders to his serve but then rafa re-adopted some bad serving habits in 2011 :S i just cannot fathom that…he improved after 2011 but his serve is still not as good as it should be.
Toni lacks the expertise in this area. You just need to look at rafa’s serving motion in 2005 RG to see how underdeveoped his motion was! Toni has done a good job to learn himself and then help rafa but in some areas, it would be better to get help.
Fed has always got a wealth of ideas from so many great coaches.
Rafa’s backhand slice is also a shot that frustrates me. almost stagnant progress
Because he is a defensive baseliner and will always be like I have always said. That is his bread and butter strategy and the only place it doesn’t work at all is Indoors which by some stroke of divine providence are at least somewhat of an advantage to the attacker, although not everywhere.
not in London, probably
Well if Fed could beat Rafa the way Novak did at Beijing then there’s nothing Rafa could do because his opponents were simply too good. Did Rafa fall apart after losing 6-2,6-2 to Novak? He didnt because he knew he wasnt ready to beat Novak. Frankly, this wasnt the Fed of Cincy but an error prone and shanking Fed though still dangerous because its indoor HC.
I dont think I said Rafa would be devastated about this loss. However, if this trend of coming close to winning but still couldnt win continues, will he be happy just being the runner up or being the semifinalist? He said hes preparing and getting ready for 2016 but there’re only two more tournaments left this year. Will he suddenly become better come Jan 2016 if he’s still not able to win matches like this?
Found it. Inter web google is amaaaaaazing…..
https://tenngrand.com/2015/09/08/u-s-open-qf-previews-and-picks-federer-vs-gasquet-wawrinka-vs-anderson/comment-page-3/#comment-214710
Ricky can’t recall what he said six weeks ago…
hawkeye63 says:
September 10, 2015 at 2:38 pm
No, I think Rafa will make WTF. He is already 7th in the race and he will be 6th next week/
Ricky Dimon says:
September 10, 2015 at 2:39 pm
he will qualify. he just won’t play.
hawkeye63 says:
September 10, 2015 at 2:42 pm
Right, even though it is his stated goal for the year.
Thats the problem with Rafa these days – unable to stay calm. Its when he felt he had nothing to lose ie hes not going to win that he played freely , the way he did vs Novak. He was going for his shots and had Novak taking risks, hitting the lines in order to beat him. Its when Rafa wasnt playing freely (ie having some expectations and feeling nervous) that he started thinking too much that he faltered at crucial moments, like vs Tsonga at Shanghai and vs Fed now.
The court positioning, its an ongoing issue and thats something frustrating. After his successful NAHC swing in 2013, he reverted to defensive court position during the Asian and Indoor swing that year and thereafter. The aggressive Rafa never appear again. Its like he did something to specifically win something (USO 2010 and 2013) and then didnt want to continue with those good things thereafter.
There is one tricky thing though. Rafa thrives on pummeling fed’s backhand with heavy topspin and THAT is difficult to do when you are very close to the baseline. He usually needs a bit more time and generate loads of spin with his big racket swing. He has to strike a balance. Breaking fed’s backhand that way is a great tactic obviously but he needs to be careful. If he does not get good length, he is doomed because he has already lost so much court.
But you are talking about facing Fed but Rafa is playing from way behind the baseline vs practically anyone.
that is true….but he did make some progress in moving closer to the baseline during some matches this week. And, against Cilic, he was determined to take second serve returns on the rise but because that was not working, he reverted to a deeper position and that helped him in some moments.
I think this is something really out of his comfort zone and he needs loads of confidence to do it. Slower surfaces will obviously help.
Rafa did not play much close to the baseline in IW 2013 but somehow found a way to win , beating delpo in the final. He gained so much confidence that he was then able to play so aggressively in the NA hard court swing.
Rafa has been talking a lot about staying close to the baseline. It’s not that he is defending his strategy to stay deep behind the baseline. he is also standing closer to the baseline in practice sessions! I think, with more victories, will gradually implement it.
I know it can get very frustrating at times :/
vamosrafa,
I think you make a good point about Rafa needing more time to go after Fed’s backhand. So he does have to try to strike a balance. It’s not just black or white.
Regarding Rafa’s tendency to adapt a defensive position behind the baseline, this is his default mode. So that’s what he instinctively seems to do, especially when he’s lacking confidence. It’s not like Rafa is incapable of playing aggressive tennis or transitioning well from defense to offense. It’s between the ears. In that instance, I agree with hawkeye.
Rafa lost his mental strength and confidence and played accordingly standing well behind the baseline. But now we see him moving forward into the court to take his shots earlier and also moving up to receive second serves. There are all things that he seems to be making a concerted effort to do now. It’s paying off. We just need to give him the time he needs for it to all come together.
In 2010 Rafa only played one indoor event ie the WTF and he reached the final losing in three sets to an on fire Fed. In 2013 Rafa played two events on indoor HCs, reached the SF at Paris and final at WTF, not forgetting both years Rafa had won so much right up to the USO and not winning after the USO was still reasonable.
In 2015, Rafa was picking up momentum from Beijing onwards and Fed wasnt on fire this Basel tournament, if not Rafa wont be close to beating him!
To expect Rafa, during his best years of 2010 and 2013 to win from start to end of season was expecting too much. Novak in 2011 wasnt able to do that. In 2012, Novak lost at Paris Masters in his first match there; in both 2013/2014 Novak didnt do well at NAHC swing leading up to USO so he had the energy and desire to do well during the Asian and indoor swing. We shall see how well Novak would play at Paris and London this year.
Fed during his best years 2005-2007 wasnt playing many events after the USO. Moreover hes the HC Goat so he doing well to win Basel and WTF during those times were understandable.
I did not see the match , reading comments here, getting mixed views
Few questions.
How much would we rate Rafa out of 10?
Is this win anyway going to shape things to come going forth for Fed vs Rafa?
Did Fed use his net game a lot and did Rafa counter it? What about SABR?
BTW people, on Feds fav surface in Dubai and Cincy..Fed dismantled Novak in straights and Novak is the best player this season and is not bad on fast courts ..Atleast Rafa took it to 3 on Feds fav surface and his worst. Some perspective?
Sanju,
If you have been reading my comments, then you know my perspective on this match. I haven’t thought about rating Rafa in this match. He was not at his absolute best. But Rafa is still working to come back. After the kind of year he has had, I think pushing Fed in Basel to three sets and keeping it close, was a good result.
Fed used the net game a lot, but Rafa did counter with passing shots. I think the SABR was a non factor in this match.
We can choose to look at this result each in our own way. I would have been thrilled to see Rafa beat Fed at Basel. It would have been a wonderful moment for him. But I am not downhearted or discouraged about this loss at all. Considering how Rafa was playing some months ago, I think he’s made remarkable progress and will continue to do so.
you “think”?!?!? Its not really an opinion. The SABR was used 3 times and and Federer went 1-2 on SABR points.
Doesn’t mean that it doesn’t put some doubt in the server’s head though.
Fed saying ‘ This win was more important for me than him said it all.
I am disappointed he lost but still happy that he took it to 3 and it was well fought.
Ricky,
So you would feel better if I just said that it was a non factor, period? Okay then.
not really, no. But i think it wouls give a more accurate interpretation of the match.
you think?
..but Fed was playing better at Dubai and Cincy imo. Fed at Basel is more error prone, and its Rafa across the net regardless of whatever surface.
Yes theres positive to take from this tournament for its his first indoor HC final since WTF2013. Still he came out short where it mattered just like at Shanghai. There’s still some way to go before he could get back on track and I’m not sure he could be in time for the AO.
Re: the comment about Rafa being a defensive baseliner. Rafa wasnt defensive from day one. The way he beat Fed at Miami 2004 and they way he played against Gonzo and Hewitt back then hardly made him qualified as a defensive baseliner.
Its the several years of grinding and winning on clay that make him a defensive baseliner now.
After the match – so sweet. These 2 players do rivalry with dignity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrhZqOIs6xA
I fear many of my responses in the past 36 hours are out of sequence, or have appeared so late as to be irrelevant.. I am having serious computer and broadband issues. Thank you for your patience everybody until normal service is resumed.
Ed, did you see my link to Ricky saying six weeks ago that Rafa wouldn’t play WTF even if qualified?
Yes, I did and have thanked you. Don’t ask me where though! I also told Ricky I would like an apology 🙂
Good luck with that. He’s never apologized for many things he’s been either wrong or unfair about and there has been plenty of opportunity. 🙂
this was the best opportunity for Fed to beat Rafa…we all know Rafa is work in progress and he is still fighting his own demons…more disadvantage caused by the indoor surface which has never been Rafa’s forte…
I congratulate Fed’s fans! They are so lucky! I wish our Rafa would be wining titles at the age of 35…
Rafa played a very good match…Fed implemented more varieties and it’s good for Rafa to gain experience from the improved version of Fed that has been developed according to Fed’s age…I hope Rafa learns from it and applies some of it in his own case…
Rafa’s serve is his biggest weakness….he will have to work further on it and hiring someone new to help would mean volume…hope Uncle T. gets that…
most of my friends who were neutral on this one said that Rafa is surely coming back…he is almost there and as I previously stated the most important thing is for Rafa to be healthy and ready to win the AO 2016…as far as I am concerned these are all worm-up tournaments and good opportunity to gain some points…
I repeat: Rafa had nothing to prove there…he would have liked to have won the title but I bet he would trade this win anytime for a win over Fed at the WTF…and if this Rafa shows up in London with a bit more calm he sure will beat Fed…let’s wait and see…
and the most encouraging that I am seeing from Rafa this fall is that Rafa’s desire for success becomes greater than his fear of failure! Amen to that! Welcome back Rafa!!!
Vamos Rafa!
God the negativity about Rafa here is killing me :-). Just give it a rest people. He ain’t that bad. He surpassed our expectations last 3 tournaments. Let us hope for more better outcomes.
that!
Sanju,
Yes! Well said! 🙂
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/federer-net-attack-brain-game-basel-2015-final
Brain game analysis by ATP
I hope Rafa is taking note. Too many net approaches by Rafa. I think after watching highlights had Rafa gone DTL instead of CC when he had the open court at 5 3 in 3rd having BP, Rafa may have this in the bag. Alas!!!
I mean too many net approaches by Fed above in my comment.
Exactly. Rafa seemed determined to target Fed’s BH all day, overdoing it imo, when at times going DTL into the open court could win him the point.
A prime time Rafa would make all the right shot selection. The current Rafa lacks clarity of thoughts. Also, his CC FH (including the I/O FH) couldnt create the angles he used to create, lacking depth, pace and power snd so they’re returnable. Even his smashes these days are less effective and he has to hit a few consecutively to win a point. Maybe he’s still concern about his back and so isnt willing to exert too much pressure on it.
I’ve been pondering about that too. I feel he has lost faith in his body and this is affecting his lucidity. He cant help but be worrying about what seems to be a relapse in his knee. And almost certainly it is his back which sometimes holds him back from going all out with his serve. This was in my mind when I floated the idea he maybe should consider going back to the practice court rather than risk anymore injuries after what has been an intensive spell on indoor courts.
Yup, mostly if not all mental IMO.
How many total points did Fed win compared to Rafa?
I hope this does not become a precedent for Fed vs Rafa, Hope Rafa learns from this. It is very important for Rafa to play his 3 principal rivals to know what he should work on.
Rafa as per my reading of comments did not try much different apart from attacking Feds BH. Rafa won 60 baseline points to Feds 40..huge difference. Somehow needs to serve better and stop hitting a bit short to prevent Fed coming to the net.
Rafa played Novak on his fav surface Beijing and lost 62 62. Rafa played Fed on his fav surface and lost 6 3 5 7 6 3. Hope he is taking notes.
He hit short balls because he was standing way back behind the baseline. Against the big servers and big hitters I can understand because their powerful shots could push you further back and its hard to counter their power. I was expecting Rafa to move forward when playing against Gasquet but he still didnt make any changes. Agsinst Fed, no changes too and so Fed could approach the net very often.
Rafa has the varieties but he often doesnt make full use of them, preferring to play his usual way from well behind the baseline. I sometimes wonder does Toni ever talk to Rafa about this or he simply leave it to Rafa to figure it out; or Rafa is too stubborn and would not listen; or he simply couldnt do it.
luckystar, your criticism of Rafa’s style has not changed in years. I could be reading this from 5 years ago , yet Rafa has been very successful for much of the time. Of course he’s had his bad times but that can’t all be due to him staying too far back. If only it were that simple.
🙂
Save for one FO some time ago, it’s been “bad times” for the last two years.
Rafa’s court positioning is the symptom, not the underlying problem.
His opposition hasn’t figured out his game. He’s just not executing the way he used to and it’s not physical, it’s mental.
I think Fed won 95 points and Rafa 85.
No nadine, on clay he’s still fine but not on the quicker courts. The past five years? Well Rafa was still successful on clay but not so much on grass and the HCs. He won USO2013 in that period of time because he was playing aggressive tennis.
Losing in straight sets do Djokovic is not still fine for the GOAT and King of Clay.
#DoYou???
Except for 2015, Rafa was still very good on clay from 2011-2014, still the no.1 on clay in those years.
Except for 2015, Rafa was still very good on clay from 2011-2014, still the no.1 on clay in those years.
You said he was still fine on clay but he is anything but.
He was great in 2013 but his level dropped off in 2014 and it was already showing in his clay results failing to win a lead up clay tournament before winning the French.
The back problem in 2014 was really the start of his confidence problems.
Nah, Rafa won Madrid and reached the final at Rome in 2014 before winning the FO. He had 3870 points during the European clay season, not his best (his best being 5100 points out of 5500 available) but good enough to put him at no.1 on clay that year; moreover, he won the FO that year beating Ferrer, Murray and Novak consecutively.
as I already said, Rafa is reached his peak and his game deteriorates…his lost confidence and anxiety on key points goes with it…he must implement new things, more varieties in order to be able to meet current challenges…he can no longer afford to stand way behind the baseline hitting short…he no longer has the same energy and the same speed as he used to hence his wrong court positioning…he needs to volley more and to make his points shorter…but it is much easier than done…Rafa’s style of play isn’t easy to adjust…
However, I see changes and thus improvements in Rafa’s game…yesterday’s match was a clear indication of it…Rafa is progressing…but Fed in the meantime has also progressed and ALTERED his game…his BH improved and his S&V game is mostly strong and working…when his serve is on he is difficult to beat on fast indoor courts…and it is even more difficult for this version of Rafa…
But I see positive things in Rafa’s game…I am optimistic! Keep improving Rafa!
Vamos!
Yep, Rafa needs to play with varieties, and plays more inside the court. Rafa had bern saying that for the past five years i think, had a bit of success doing that in 2013 NAHC season but had not done so since.
I think Nadal spends far too much time on court against lower ranked players early in these tournaments and it catches up with him by the end.Really his serving is very bad right now and lower ranked players can make him work too hard to hold serve.
How many players can claim to beat the following in quick straight sets, the ones who have taken Rafa to 3 sets in the last 2 tournaments?:
Karlovic
Tsonga
Rosol
Dimitrov
Cilic
Rafa beat the following in straight sets:
Raonic
Wawrinka
Gasquet
Your statement needs qualification. It’s not as simple as you make it sound.
Novak and Andy can defeat everyone except Dr. Ivo in quick straight sets. Fed can definitely defeat Rosol and Dimi easliy at least that’s what the statistics says. Cilic and Tsonga depends on a good day yes and on average day in 3 sets. Dr. Ivo is out of all equations he is equally competitive against Top1 to Top100
Nadal’s two set matches are far too long.I believe Gasquet kept him running out there for over two hours.Federer beats lower ranked opponents in majors in that time.Nadal needs a serving coach to take all that tension out of his arm motion.It’s strange,his overhead is so natural,maybe he could adapt that motion to his serve.
Except for when Federer lost to Albert Ramos.
Maybe he should work on his toss,just get it up one foot higher.
alpha25 says:
November 2, 2015 at 4:17 pm
“Novak and Andy can defeat everyone except Dr. Ivo in quick straight sets. ”
Dr Ivo leads Novak 3:1 in their h2h and Rafa leads Dr Ivo 5:1
ROFL
Corr
Dr Ivo leads Novak 3:1 in their h2h and Rafa leads Dr Ivo 5:0
ROFL
Against Dr Ivo h2h will be totally misleading as many lower ranked player has better h2h against him compared to some top players. I wonder what if Dr Ivo would have been a decent baseliner then he would always have been one of grand slam contender and he would have won at least one slam.