With respect, you have stated your diagnosis of Rafa’s mental state ad nauseam now. I think EVERYBODY on this site gets it, twice over. Any chance you can now give this a rest and give us your eminent opinion on other things, on all things Rafa and tennis of course?
Thx Nadline for answering my question further up (can’t be bothered with pasting the time and all) – I agree with JMac’s suggestion of a shot-clock but what sanctions to put when time is exceeded and when to start the countdown…?
The countdown begins as current. When the ball is dead (e.g. bounces twice, goes out or into the net). Not after the umpire calls the score. That is how it is supposed to be called today.
Mary says:
July 7, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Does native make sense to anyone? She seems to be spouting gibberish. Must be trollese.
—————————————————————————
π
Thx Augusta for your screen-shot of the rule book.. there’s a big difference between starting the call when the player is asked to play and when the ball goes out. If it’s the latter then we’re talking about robot-like tennis which, in my opinion, would put me off a bit but it’s left to the Umpire’s discretion to judge when the countdown should start, that makes more sense. For instance, if there’s been a 20-shot rally under blazing sun or the crowd is being too vocal, these are good examples in which the Umpire could be a more lenient.
But it all boils to this, no? If it is according to the rules then it is always 25 seconds no matter what and crazy… which is why it was not enforced for the longest time until one rf leaned in… And if it still is to be enforced exactly, then should the rule be changed to more seconds given how incredibly more physical the game is today than when the rule was written?
Better left to discretion… most of the time the umpires are not favoring one player be it intentionally or with less less self-awareness. But then… this just shows up the rule for being not very well thought out given that it cannot be reasonably applied all the time… or that the rule is past it’s best-by date.
The umpire askes the players to play at the start of a set and end of a change over.
Not by calling the score.
I agree with your view but there is no discretion permitted by the rules.
If they are going to apply a separate set of rules for Rafa, then I say put in a shot clock that starts when the point ends or when the umpire tells the players to start – like the rule says.
D-Joker and Fed parading in the Ugly contest of the ATP. That depends on whether they go for the Fed ugly nose or D-Joker pointy chin as the deciding factor.
posts are being put helter skelter today …
Chloro,
July 7, 2015 at 2:37 pm
In principle I agree with you, that it should be left to discretion – it feels much more tennis-like, sort to speak but, at the same time I think a shot-clock would not hurt either as it would stop the whining.
I think a combination of both would not be detrimental to the show, the Umpire choosing when to start the countdown.
July 7, 2015 at 3:12 pm
—-Didnβt @nadline10 recently say we sure could use some maturity around here?—=====================
_
I am curious to know when YOU are going to start using some maturity around here?
nadline10 says:
July 7, 2015 at 3:00 pm
“A ventriloquist doll and keeping it real is an oxymoron.”
native is contributing to the general welfare of this forum by keeping us in stitches with her dummy act!
Amazing how I can speak for myself when I am a ventriloquist doll! I guess you missed that post from your buddy nadline. More selective cherry picking!
You guys always start it all the time. Then you get mad when people give it back after they get sick of being attacked. So quit whining about it! π
ary says:
July 7, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Does native make sense to anyone? She seems to be spouting gibberish. Must be trollese.
————————————————————
Mary, what have you done? The parrot is now repeating ‘trollese’ all over the place.
July 7, 2015 at 3:15 pm,
—Didnβt @nadline10 recently say we sure could use some maturity around here?—
–
==========================
–
See my post on July 7, 2015 at 3:35 pm.
Ideally I think the old system worked best prior to the crackdown.
Given that this is unlikely, I’d like to see it as strict and remove all discretion from the umpires to expose this farce which to date has achieved its goal as it has exacerbated Rafa’s problems.
Since primarily targeting Rafa repeatedly, he has lost his form completely.
There is a petition on VB addressing this issue of how the time violation rule is being enforced. I signed it. They are hoping to reach at least 500 signatures before sending it to the ITF and ATP. At least that’s something constructive that can be done.
when strictly necessary means what then, after a long rally, more so on very hot days, etc, etc, we are back to giving the umpire some discretion to apply the rule reasonably and fairly…
No matter how you turn it, it goes back to the same thing: if the rule is applied without any discretion, strictly by the rule book, then it will quickly show how ridiculous that rule is…. unless perhaps if applied with proper discretion.
So then we are back to discretion. And that can mean different things to different umpires. There are various reasons to be lenient.
And either way, alas, it _is_ true that rafa has been given time warnings (for the first time in a match, and sometimes again later) just when he was facing a breakpoint or opportunity point. This has now happened several times at different tournaments. And this is on top of mass discussion all over the place of rafa breaking rules, involved with gamemanship. Rf’s strategy worked about as well as could have been hoped for.
Well it’s better than doing nothing. At least they know that people are aware of what is going on. Maybe if there are more petitions sent over time then they will have to take notice.
—I think Ricky intentionally put it in this mode of operation hoping that maturity will prevail.—
==================
–
Maturity would prevail, if you didn’t prevail.
July 7, 2015 at 5:46 pm,
—the day rafa marries his long-time sweetheart β¦.
there will be many broken hearts…
if you read any thoughts at all on the internet of those heartsβ¦ they still harbour a little hope—
=========================
–
F & D are married, but someone is still polluting the Internet with their pictures…he still harbours a little hope in his heart. π
also, I’m just curious, you say ‘polluting the Internet’ when hawkeye’s posts pictures of F. What do you call your posting pictures of rafito? or for that matter, the thousands of other fans who post many pictures of rafito on the internet? When it pertains to rafito it is, miraculously, _not_ polluting right?
Chloro: “What do you CALL your posting pictures of rafito? or for that matter, the thousands of other fans who post many pictures of rafito on the internet?”
My answer: “Rafans show their SUPPORT for Rafa, they donβt pollute [i.e. it is CALLED SUPPORTING Rafa].”
nadline10 says:
July 7, 2015 at 6:43 pm
Now Djokovic loses his cool: World number one yells at ballgirl during tense clash β the day after Australian Nick Kyrgios got embroiled in racism row over court outburst
nadline10 says:
July 7, 2015 at 6:52 pm
Novak Djokovic appeared to be feeling the pressure of defending his Wimbledon championship this afternoon before his triumph was sealed.
In the final stint of his match today the Serb seemed to have lost his cool momentarily, shouting and gesticulating towards a baby-faced ball girl.
Apparently requesting his towel amid the afternoon mugginess, the 28-year-old screamed in her direction and held his hands out in anger.
After wiping his face he discarded it back in the youngsterβs direction before resuming play. The girl was left visibly shaken and stifling tears, according to sources on the court.
She was seen nervously drinking from a water bottle moments after the eruption, her cheeks redder than before. After beating his South African opponent, Djokovic allegedly walked off Court No. 1 without glancing in her direction.
He later described the match that was drawn out over two days, as βfrustratingβ. βI was two sets down, to come back and win in five definitely gives me great satisfaction and confidence for the next challenge,β he said of his victory.
βIt was frustrating at times, especially today, but I managed to go through and thatβs what matters.β
Photographers capturing the match said the World Number One had left the girl on the verge of tears after shouting βaggressivelyβ towards her.
I am only saying that all this good mood doesn’t matter. It will matter if it finally translates on the court with some big titles and wins. Who cares if he is in good mood eating and drinking?
His famed rivals are out there on court contesting for biggest titles and Rafa is out of the tourneys.
“Who cares if he is in good mood eating and drinking?”
Umm……..maybe Rafa, and Xisca, and his family, and his other fans who are not fixated on him simply winning at tennis, people who may just be happy if he’s happy, whatever he’s doing.
Exactly. An anxiety disorder.
@hawkeye63, July 7, 2015 at 11:26 am
With respect, you have stated your diagnosis of Rafa’s mental state ad nauseam now. I think EVERYBODY on this site gets it, twice over. Any chance you can now give this a rest and give us your eminent opinion on other things, on all things Rafa and tennis of course?
You’re not Married to my diagnosis?
ritb, you’ll soon be reminded that ‘hawkeye is keeping it real’.
Speaking of, Novak likes to keep it real just like Rafa…
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/tDdEU2SER_iKN3JeD8O5Wg–/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztpbD1wbGFuZTtweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/f13cea4a6d592702270f6a706700506e.jpg
hawkeye63 says: July 7, 2015 at 12:16 pm
No, nor am I Married to @Carrie!
#KeepingItReal
hawkeye are you seeing “everything twice”?? ( catch-22)
Self-diagnosis:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJUJeKIUcAAMxpA.png
Diagnose this.
http://gototennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Novak_Djokovic_celebrates_Davis_cup.jpg
Snapping yourself has it’s benefits. π
Yes!
It’s great to be quoted here. Because “keeping it real” means being honest and true to oneself! That’s my motto! π
hawkeye,
Oh yes, must you repeat your diagnosis of Rafa! Must you say what you think more than once? Tsk, tsk!
Does native make sense to anyone? She seems to be spouting gibberish. Must be trollese.
Someone is doing the smilings at you Mary (but Rafa is still the best ever)…
http://bestcelebritystyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/roger-federer-style-fashion-looks_4.jpg
Mary (at 2:10 pm),
You crack me up! π
Just like Roger!!!
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Editor/Img/Roger-Federer-laughing-img11074_668.jpg
Thx Nadline for answering my question further up (can’t be bothered with pasting the time and all) – I agree with JMac’s suggestion of a shot-clock but what sanctions to put when time is exceeded and when to start the countdown…?
The countdown begins as current. When the ball is dead (e.g. bounces twice, goes out or into the net). Not after the umpire calls the score. That is how it is supposed to be called today.
The sanctions are the same. A warning first and then loss of first serve subsequently for the remainder of the match.
The game would be a complete farce.
Shireling ( at 1:27 pm)
2015 ATP Rulebook:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJUMWlLUMAEuLe4.png
(See more in the Rulebook.)
The ITF rule, which applies to GS tournaments, is ’20 sec between the points’.
Mary says:
July 7, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Does native make sense to anyone? She seems to be spouting gibberish. Must be trollese.
—————————————————————————
π
A picture says a thousand words π
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJTvFn0WwAAjR8K.jpg
Trollese!
http://www.laxlessons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/shot-clock-e1344026207384.jpg
Take note AT & ITF. You need a shot clock and there should be 30 seconds between points.
#Fail
https://twitter.com/MichalSamulski/status/618411253694861312
Thx Augusta for your screen-shot of the rule book.. there’s a big difference between starting the call when the player is asked to play and when the ball goes out. If it’s the latter then we’re talking about robot-like tennis which, in my opinion, would put me off a bit but it’s left to the Umpire’s discretion to judge when the countdown should start, that makes more sense. For instance, if there’s been a 20-shot rally under blazing sun or the crowd is being too vocal, these are good examples in which the Umpire could be a more lenient.
Shireling (at 2:29 pm),
I agree with you.
But it all boils to this, no? If it is according to the rules then it is always 25 seconds no matter what and crazy… which is why it was not enforced for the longest time until one rf leaned in… And if it still is to be enforced exactly, then should the rule be changed to more seconds given how incredibly more physical the game is today than when the rule was written?
Better left to discretion… most of the time the umpires are not favoring one player be it intentionally or with less less self-awareness. But then… this just shows up the rule for being not very well thought out given that it cannot be reasonably applied all the time… or that the rule is past it’s best-by date.
The umpire askes the players to play at the start of a set and end of a change over.
Not by calling the score.
I agree with your view but there is no discretion permitted by the rules.
If they are going to apply a separate set of rules for Rafa, then I say put in a shot clock that starts when the point ends or when the umpire tells the players to start – like the rule says.
It will be a farce.
So many pictures of D-Joker looking like a prat
This one is quite nice though don’y you think?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/be/0e/20/be0e2072c91d7382a83342a0993b149a.jpg
we have a few brides-of-troll(ings)
Some oestridae too!
Trollese!
D-Joker and Fed parading in the Ugly contest of the ATP. That depends on whether they go for the Fed ugly nose or D-Joker pointy chin as the deciding factor.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better
Trollese!
nadline10 (at 2:41 pm),
You are keeping it real! π
Thank you my fan! π
posts are being put helter skelter today …
Chloro,
July 7, 2015 at 2:37 pm
In principle I agree with you, that it should be left to discretion – it feels much more tennis-like, sort to speak but, at the same time I think a shot-clock would not hurt either as it would stop the whining.
I think a combination of both would not be detrimental to the show, the Umpire choosing when to start the countdown.
I disagree because then the umpires can continue to selectively target Rafa.
Call it like they did before Roger complained about Rafa in 2012 or add the shot clock to the current rule as is.
It would make a farce of the game and people would be forced to see what a dumb rule it is to begin with.
A ventriloquist doll and keeping it real is an oxymoron.
Trollese!
Didn’t @nadline10 recently say we sure could use some maturity around here?
Must’ve been an “off” day.
July 7, 2015 at 3:12 pm
—-Didnβt @nadline10 recently say we sure could use some maturity around here?—=====================
_
I am curious to know when YOU are going to start using some maturity around here?
After you My dear No. 1 botfan.
Delusion before beauty.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJUIH60WUAAbZGU.jpg
What makes you think she knows anything about maturity? Now trolling, that’s another thing entirely! That is her expertise. π
And THIS poster speaks about maturity?! π
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJU1DuhUwAA81ss.png
http://www.thenextpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Djokovic-2010-1.jpg
http://gototennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Novak_Djokovic_celebrates_Davis_cup.jpg
http://www.thenextpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Djokovic-2010-1.jpg
http://gototennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Novak_Djokovic_celebrates_Davis_cup.jpg
http://www.thenextpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Djokovic-2010-1.jpg
http://gototennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Novak_Djokovic_celebrates_Davis_cup.jpg
http://www.thenextpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Djokovic-2010-1.jpg
.
http://gototennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Novak_Djokovic_celebrates_Davis_cup.jpg
.
nadline10 says:
July 7, 2015 at 3:00 pm
“A ventriloquist doll and keeping it real is an oxymoron.”
native is contributing to the general welfare of this forum by keeping us in stitches with her dummy act!
This guy is no dummy. He still knows that Rafa is the Best ever!!!
http://www.thenextpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Djokovic-2010-1.jpg
#DoYou???
augusta,
Oh well, just keeping it real and being honest!
Amazing how I can speak for myself when I am a ventriloquist doll! I guess you missed that post from your buddy nadline. More selective cherry picking!
You guys always start it all the time. Then you get mad when people give it back after they get sick of being attacked. So quit whining about it! π
nativenewyorker7 says:
July 7, 2015 at 4:50 pm,
—You guys always start it all the time.—
====================
_
Nope, I respond.
Just not as well as Nole responds when returning serve according to the explanation here…
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?ex_cid=sportscenterTW&id=13208318
ary says:
July 7, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Does native make sense to anyone? She seems to be spouting gibberish. Must be trollese.
————————————————————
Mary, what have you done? The parrot is now repeating ‘trollese’ all over the place.
Didnβt @nadline10 recently say we sure could use some maturity around here?
I guess she was having a moment of weakness.
July 7, 2015 at 3:15 pm,
—Didnβt @nadline10 recently say we sure could use some maturity around here?—
–
==========================
–
See my post on July 7, 2015 at 3:35 pm.
What?
http://gototennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Novak_Djokovic_celebrates_Davis_cup.jpg
hawkeye63 says:
July 7, 2015 at 3:10 pm
You and Chloro are probably right, I’m just brainstorming …
How about having the clock start when the ball goes out and then letting the Umpire decide to extend the deadline when strictly necessary?
Ideally I think the old system worked best prior to the crackdown.
Given that this is unlikely, I’d like to see it as strict and remove all discretion from the umpires to expose this farce which to date has achieved its goal as it has exacerbated Rafa’s problems.
Since primarily targeting Rafa repeatedly, he has lost his form completely.
There is a petition on VB addressing this issue of how the time violation rule is being enforced. I signed it. They are hoping to reach at least 500 signatures before sending it to the ITF and ATP. At least that’s something constructive that can be done.
It will be ‘duly noted’ and duly ignored.
I posted one petition here 2 weeks ago:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJUyUrBUwAArsK8.png
The petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/time-limits-for-tennis-players-time-for-a
when strictly necessary means what then, after a long rally, more so on very hot days, etc, etc, we are back to giving the umpire some discretion to apply the rule reasonably and fairly…
No matter how you turn it, it goes back to the same thing: if the rule is applied without any discretion, strictly by the rule book, then it will quickly show how ridiculous that rule is…. unless perhaps if applied with proper discretion.
So then we are back to discretion. And that can mean different things to different umpires. There are various reasons to be lenient.
And either way, alas, it _is_ true that rafa has been given time warnings (for the first time in a match, and sometimes again later) just when he was facing a breakpoint or opportunity point. This has now happened several times at different tournaments. And this is on top of mass discussion all over the place of rafa breaking rules, involved with gamemanship. Rf’s strategy worked about as well as could have been hoped for.
hawkeye,
Well it’s better than doing nothing. At least they know that people are aware of what is going on. Maybe if there are more petitions sent over time then they will have to take notice.
methinks the brides do protest too much
Ricky, if you are reading this, tenngrand’s broken again….. posts are attached more or less randomly
I think Ricky intentionally put it in this mode of operation hoping that maturity will prevail.
too bad we don’t all agree that rafa is the best
Indeed. Maybe he will be Married one day soon too.
Vamos Rafa, no matter what!
July 7, 2015 at 3:49 pm,
—I think Ricky intentionally put it in this mode of operation hoping that maturity will prevail.—
==================
–
Maturity would prevail, if you didn’t prevail.
You can see that even though Nole’s maturity has finally prevailed just like Rafa’s, he still keeps the fans happy…
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJUbk1MWEAEqxOO.png
the day rafa marries his long-time sweetheart ….
there will be many broken hearts
if you read any thoughts at all on the internet of those hearts… they still harbour a little hope
why even those of us with man crushes might be harbouring some hope, now that the new kinds of marriages are legal in many countries
July 7, 2015 at 5:46 pm,
—the day rafa marries his long-time sweetheart β¦.
there will be many broken hearts…
if you read any thoughts at all on the internet of those heartsβ¦ they still harbour a little hope—
=========================
–
F & D are married, but someone is still polluting the Internet with their pictures…he still harbours a little hope in his heart. π
you do have a sense of humour, gussie !
also, I’m just curious, you say ‘polluting the Internet’ when hawkeye’s posts pictures of F. What do you call your posting pictures of rafito? or for that matter, the thousands of other fans who post many pictures of rafito on the internet? When it pertains to rafito it is, miraculously, _not_ polluting right?
#WhatAppliesToYouDoesNotApplyToMe
chloro
July 7, 2015 at 6:21 pm,
My intention was to emphasize the word ‘still’ (at 6:17 pm).
Secondly, Rafans show their support for Rafa, they don’t pollute.
Pollution is terrible.
http://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FByPI8BUCEAApzNC.jpg
gussie,
your reply makes no sense …
please re-read my post carefully and try again
#DejaVue
chloro (at 6:52 pm),
I don’t know what’s unclear to you.
I repeat.
Chloro: “What do you CALL your posting pictures of rafito? or for that matter, the thousands of other fans who post many pictures of rafito on the internet?”
My answer: “Rafans show their SUPPORT for Rafa, they donβt pollute [i.e. it is CALLED SUPPORTING Rafa].”
Chloro,
July 7, 2015 at 3:41 pm
Well put, you convinced me. No clocks then π
But maybe RF will have something to say about that too, after all he comes from Switzerland
what was wrong with the old way?
other than two things:
ten past eleven at night, I mean 23:10 π (or twenty-three past ten in the morning)
mythologizes sunking
nadline10 says:
July 7, 2015 at 4:02 pm
^^^So she can watch the recording through hawkeyeβs eyes. (Forgive the pun)
Well we all try to watch Rafa’s matches whenever we can, especially against the GROSOAT shown below…
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJUbk1MWEAEqxOO.png
nadline10 says:
July 7, 2015 at 6:43 pm
Now Djokovic loses his cool: World number one yells at ballgirl during tense clash β the day after Australian Nick Kyrgios got embroiled in racism row over court outburst
You mean this guy?
http://www.me-me-me.tv/images/2009/08/novak-djokovic_1.jpg
Maybe he just needed to cool off.
nadline10 says:
July 7, 2015 at 6:52 pm
Novak Djokovic appeared to be feeling the pressure of defending his Wimbledon championship this afternoon before his triumph was sealed.
In the final stint of his match today the Serb seemed to have lost his cool momentarily, shouting and gesticulating towards a baby-faced ball girl.
Apparently requesting his towel amid the afternoon mugginess, the 28-year-old screamed in her direction and held his hands out in anger.
After wiping his face he discarded it back in the youngsterβs direction before resuming play. The girl was left visibly shaken and stifling tears, according to sources on the court.
She was seen nervously drinking from a water bottle moments after the eruption, her cheeks redder than before. After beating his South African opponent, Djokovic allegedly walked off Court No. 1 without glancing in her direction.
He later described the match that was drawn out over two days, as βfrustratingβ. βI was two sets down, to come back and win in five definitely gives me great satisfaction and confidence for the next challenge,β he said of his victory.
βIt was frustrating at times, especially today, but I managed to go through and thatβs what matters.β
Photographers capturing the match said the World Number One had left the girl on the verge of tears after shouting βaggressivelyβ towards her.
You mean this guy?
http://gototennis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Novak_Djokovic_celebrates_Davis_cup.jpg
… or this guy.
http://www.thenextpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Djokovic-2010-1.jpg
Rafa’s resting with friends in Marbella (via pgarcila IG):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJX8zQjWEAA4ijY.jpg
Great to see Rafa in a good mood. I was worried about him.
Thanks, augusta for bringing the good news.
He doesn’t look in a good mood.
It isn’t good news if he is in good mood. He needs to renew his climb back with a mission and not booze and eat carbs
sanju ( at 5:16 pm),
Where did you get bad news?
It’s a figure of speech. Something some-bot-y that deals in absolutes wouldn’t understand.
I am only saying that all this good mood doesn’t matter. It will matter if it finally translates on the court with some big titles and wins. Who cares if he is in good mood eating and drinking?
His famed rivals are out there on court contesting for biggest titles and Rafa is out of the tourneys.
yes well said sanju…..!
Welcome to a little club we like to call reality. Membership has its rewards.
Sanju ( at 5:36 pm),
Great! You shouldn’t take hawkeye63 seriously! π
I sure don’t. Why should he?
“Who cares if he is in good mood eating and drinking?”
Umm……..maybe Rafa, and Xisca, and his family, and his other fans who are not fixated on him simply winning at tennis, people who may just be happy if he’s happy, whatever he’s doing.
#There’sMoreToLifeThanTennis
#Food’sGood
Exactly. If he is in a good mood it means he’s put the loss behind him and ready to move on.